The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread
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Last: 2 days ago by dajo9
noted in passing, many hundred pages later, darn, we sure can stretch out a conversation when entrenched viewpoints are involved.
# not that there's anything wrong with that
# not that there's anything wrong with that
sycasey said:Cal88 said:sycasey said:BearlySane88 said:sycasey said:
Ah, so you are accusing me of being in favor of murdering children. Thanks!
He quite clearly says the opposite.
Whatever, this back-and-forth is pointless. I don't agree that my stance on Ukraine is resulting in child murder. I oppose Putin's war that has caused all of this death.
Many serious US policymakers and analysts have stated that crossing known Russian red lines would precipitate a civil war in Ukraine and Russian military intervention. Your framing this as Putin's war dismisses this reality.
No one forced Putin to invade. That was still his choice.
Also, a lot of those analysts that made these predictions also stated that Russia would not try to conquer Ukraine so there has been plenty of "wrong" to go around.
Serious analysts like Burns, Perry and many others KNEW that Russia would be FORCED to intervene due to the path taken by Ukraine to join NATO building the largest army in Europe and adopting an ati-Russian doctrine.
Cal88 said:sycasey said:Cal88 said:sycasey said:BearlySane88 said:sycasey said:
Ah, so you are accusing me of being in favor of murdering children. Thanks!
He quite clearly says the opposite.
Whatever, this back-and-forth is pointless. I don't agree that my stance on Ukraine is resulting in child murder. I oppose Putin's war that has caused all of this death.
Many serious US policymakers and analysts have stated that crossing known Russian red lines would precipitate a civil war in Ukraine and Russian military intervention. Your framing this as Putin's war dismisses this reality.
No one forced Putin to invade. That was still his choice.
Also, a lot of those analysts that made these predictions also stated that Russia would not try to conquer Ukraine so there has been plenty of "wrong" to go around.
Serious analysts like Burns, Perry and many others KNEW that Russia would be FORCED to intervene due to the path taken by Ukraine to join NATO building the largest army in Europe and adopting an ati-Russian doctrine.
They were not forced. Ukraine was no threat to Russia and would not have built up its military if not for Russia annexing part of their territory.
In the ten years prior, Ukraine expanded its active military by 120,000 or more; and individual NATO member states sent several hundred rotating personnel at any given time to run training initiatives. Operation Orbital (UK), Joint Multinational Training Group-Ukraine (JMTG-U), and "temporary" NATO training to name a few.
Hmm, who is running the show here?
EXCLUSIVE: Elon Musk came to Donald Trump with the plan to throttle Ukraine’s use of SpaceX’s Starshield satellite internet network, sources have told the Telegraph.
— Joe Barnes (@Barnes_Joe) October 16, 2026
The tech billionaire made the proposal during the US President’s row with Volodymyr Zelensky over strikes on…
> Hmm, who is running the show here?
by most accounts only Russia is steering a bouncy fruit cart,
and not in a good way # yikes
by most accounts only Russia is steering a bouncy fruit cart,
and not in a good way # yikes
movielover said:
In the ten years prior, Ukraine expanded its active military by 120,000 or more
Where are you getting that number from? And also, ten years prior to what?
sycasey said:
Hmm, who is running the show here?EXCLUSIVE: Elon Musk came to Donald Trump with the plan to throttle Ukraine’s use of SpaceX’s Starshield satellite internet network, sources have told the Telegraph.
— Joe Barnes (@Barnes_Joe) October 16, 2026
The tech billionaire made the proposal during the US President’s row with Volodymyr Zelensky over strikes on…
The person who uses the plan runs the show.
Once again I question Trump's interests here.
BREAKING: President Trump puts new Russia sanctions passed by Congress on hold, saying a waiver is in the U.S. national interest. https://t.co/WzYRNJHitt
— The Associated Press (@AP) October 17, 2026
sycasey said:
Hmm, who is running the show here?EXCLUSIVE: Elon Musk came to Donald Trump with the plan to throttle Ukraine’s use of SpaceX’s Starshield satellite internet network, sources have told the Telegraph.
— Joe Barnes (@Barnes_Joe) October 16, 2026
The tech billionaire made the proposal during the US President’s row with Volodymyr Zelensky over strikes on…
The UK, the country pushing war; their bagman ended the Istanbul Peace Accords; and wants to continue to control the oil trade and wash cartel money. That UK?
sycasey said:movielover said:
In the ten years prior, Ukraine expanded its active military by 120,000 or more
Where are you getting that number from? And also, ten years prior to what?
AI is your friend; could be larger.
sycasey said:
Once again I question Trump's interests here.BREAKING: President Trump puts new Russia sanctions passed by Congress on hold, saying a waiver is in the U.S. national interest. https://t.co/WzYRNJHitt
— The Associated Press (@AP) October 17, 2026
Are you really surprised? I am not. It has been known for a long time that tRump is a Russian asset.
movielover said:sycasey said:movielover said:
In the ten years prior, Ukraine expanded its active military by 120,000 or more
Where are you getting that number from? And also, ten years prior to what?
AI is your friend; could be larger.
My AI search didn't show me anything like that. Please cite your source.
movielover said:sycasey said:
Hmm, who is running the show here?EXCLUSIVE: Elon Musk came to Donald Trump with the plan to throttle Ukraine’s use of SpaceX’s Starshield satellite internet network, sources have told the Telegraph.
— Joe Barnes (@Barnes_Joe) October 16, 2026
The tech billionaire made the proposal during the US President’s row with Volodymyr Zelensky over strikes on…
The UK, the country pushing war; their bagman ended the Istanbul Peace Accords; and wants to continue to control the oil trade and wash cartel money. That UK?
Your contention is that the UK is running the show in Ukraine? More so than the US and Russia?
calpoly said:sycasey said:
Once again I question Trump's interests here.BREAKING: President Trump puts new Russia sanctions passed by Congress on hold, saying a waiver is in the U.S. national interest. https://t.co/WzYRNJHitt
— The Associated Press (@AP) October 17, 2026
Are you really surprised? I am not. It has been known for a long time that tRump is a Russian asset.
But I've been told that Putin has no grander ambitions in Europe.
🚨BREAKING: Russia’s special envoy to Vladimir Putin has posted an image depicting the United States & Russia teaming up to defeat Europe.
— The Enforcer (@ItsTheEnforcer) October 17, 2026
This comes after the U.S. President gutted the new “Lindsey Graham” Russia Sanctions Act last night. pic.twitter.com/jrKBdtuSP8
Jeffrey Sachs with a short, yet comprehensive overview of how we instigated Russia.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1808317276880735/?mibextid=9drbnH
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1808317276880735/?mibextid=9drbnH
movielover said:
Jeffrey Sachs with a short, yet comprehensive overview of how we instigated Russia.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1808317276880735/?mibextid=9drbnH
So what? None of this instigation justifies a war/invasion. Russia is run by humans, not a wild dog.
I want this war end.
BREAKING: Trump post on Ukraine and Russia, says Zelensky 'doesn't want to end the war, and probably never did'. pic.twitter.com/gOejrfbWzs
— The Spectator Index (@spectatorindex) October 18, 2026
sycasey said:movielover said:
Jeffrey Sachs with a short, yet comprehensive overview of how we instigated Russia.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1808317276880735/?mibextid=9drbnH
So what? None of this instigation justifies a war/invasion. Russia is run by humans, not a wild dog.
Why do you think guys like Nicholas Burns, former US Ambassador to Moscow and head of US intel disagree with you here, stating unequivocally in a confidential memo that pushing NATO to the main Russian western borders would compel them to intervene militarily?? Perhaps Burns and co having a modicum of understanding of geopolitics lends them to disagree with your simplistic take.
You are also not addressing the fact that the majority of Ukrainians today want a negotiated settlement with the Russians and an end to the war, siding with the 21% of hardcore nationalists who want to send another million of their men to their certain death.
sycasey said:
I want this war end.BREAKING: Trump post on Ukraine and Russia, says Zelensky 'doesn't want to end the war, and probably never did'. pic.twitter.com/gOejrfbWzs
— The Spectator Index (@spectatorindex) October 18, 2026
Few other world leaders ever say this. Pretty telling.
Trump is right about this. His main con$tituency today which is largely Israel firsters like the Adelsons and Ellisons don't care as much about Ukraine and would rather not have that war compete for US war resources with the Greater Israel agenda, which entails the destruction of Iran, a tough nut to crack. And if they do get to Iran, they will demand to neutralize Turkey next as part of Forever War for Israel.
Cal88 said:sycasey said:movielover said:
Jeffrey Sachs with a short, yet comprehensive overview of how we instigated Russia.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1808317276880735/?mibextid=9drbnH
So what? None of this instigation justifies a war/invasion. Russia is run by humans, not a wild dog.
Why do you think guys like Nicholas Burns, former US Ambassador to Moscow and head of US intel disagree with you here, stating unequivocally in a confidential memo that pushing NATO to the main Russian western borders would compel them to intervene militarily?? Perhaps Burns and co having a modicum of understanding of geopolitics lends them to disagree with your simplistic take.
You are also not addressing the fact that the majority of Ukrainians today want a negotiated settlement with the Russians and an end to the war, siding with the 21% of hardcore nationalists who want to send another million of their men to their certain death.
You keep claiming that I "am not addressing" things that I have addressed repeatedly. I address this stuff all the time. You guys just don't listen and come back with the same old junk.
sycasey said:Cal88 said:sycasey said:movielover said:
Jeffrey Sachs with a short, yet comprehensive overview of how we instigated Russia.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1808317276880735/?mibextid=9drbnH
So what? None of this instigation justifies a war/invasion. Russia is run by humans, not a wild dog.
Why do you think guys like Nicholas Burns, former US Ambassador to Moscow and head of US intel disagree with you here, stating unequivocally in a confidential memo that pushing NATO to the main Russian western borders would compel them to intervene militarily?? Perhaps Burns and co having a modicum of understanding of geopolitics lends them to disagree with your simplistic take.
You are also not addressing the fact that the majority of Ukrainians today want a negotiated settlement with the Russians and an end to the war, siding with the 21% of hardcore nationalists who want to send another million of their men to their certain death.
You keep claiming that I "am not addressing" things that I have addressed repeatedly. I address this stuff all the time. You guys just don't listen and come back with the same old junk.
So is your main answer here is that you can't trust Putin to stop the war, so the war must go on??
Don't you see the irony here, and the morbid futility of sending another million Ukrainians to their death, and against the will of the majority of Ukrainians?
Do you actually believe that Ukraine can win this war?
So you're OK with Mexico putting large military bases in Ensenada, Nogales and Jurez?
Even the Talmud says if your enemy is coming to strike your home, you are allowed, even commanded, to protect yourself.
Even the Talmud says if your enemy is coming to strike your home, you are allowed, even commanded, to protect yourself.
Promethian Action claims that London and the EU / Globalists are behind the war, and London likes to manipulate the oil markets. (Boris Johnson was the emissary who ended the Istanbul Agreement, which was initialed by both sides.) BTW, nutbag Tucker Carlson claims BJ wanted $1 Million to sit down for an interview.
Cal88 said:sycasey said:Cal88 said:sycasey said:movielover said:
Jeffrey Sachs with a short, yet comprehensive overview of how we instigated Russia.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1808317276880735/?mibextid=9drbnH
So what? None of this instigation justifies a war/invasion. Russia is run by humans, not a wild dog.
Why do you think guys like Nicholas Burns, former US Ambassador to Moscow and head of US intel disagree with you here, stating unequivocally in a confidential memo that pushing NATO to the main Russian western borders would compel them to intervene militarily?? Perhaps Burns and co having a modicum of understanding of geopolitics lends them to disagree with your simplistic take.
You are also not addressing the fact that the majority of Ukrainians today want a negotiated settlement with the Russians and an end to the war, siding with the 21% of hardcore nationalists who want to send another million of their men to their certain death.
You keep claiming that I "am not addressing" things that I have addressed repeatedly. I address this stuff all the time. You guys just don't listen and come back with the same old junk.
So is your main answer here is that you can't trust Putin to stop the war, so the war must go on??
Don't you see the irony here, and the morbid futility of sending another million Ukrainians to their death, and against the will of the majority of Ukrainians?
Do you actually believe that Ukraine can win this war?
Ukrainian public opinion is complicated: yes, they want an end to the war, but not if it means giving up every concession to Putin.
movielover said:
So you're OK with Mexico putting large military bases in Ensenada, Nogales and Jurez?
Even the Talmud says if your enemy is coming to strike your home, you are allowed, even commanded, to protect yourself.
I would not be in favor of invading Mexico because they built military bases on their own territory, no. If they actually attacked us would be another story.
movielover said:
Promethian Action claims that London and the EU / Globalists are behind the war, and London likes to manipulate the oil markets. (Boris Johnson was the emissary who ended the Istanbul Agreement, which was initialed by both sides.) BTW, nutbag Tucker Carlson claims BJ wanted $1 Million to sit down for an interview.
The Brits have had the most cultural aversion towards Russia, dating back several centuries ago with the historical rivalry that built up since the Crimean Wars in the 1800s. That rivalry, dubbd "The Great Game", is depicted in Orwell's "1984" ("We've always been at war with Eurasia/Eastasia"), and is the central thesis of the main British geopolitical framework set up by Halford Mackinder (the Heartland theory). From Britanica:
Quote:
Halford Mackinder, a British political geographer, is best known for his heartland theory, introduced in his 1904 paper, The Geographical Pivot of History. This theory posits that control of the Eurasian landmass, or "heartland," is key to dominating the "world island" of Eurasia and Africa, eventually leading to world domination.
Mackinder's concept challenged the traditional maritime theory of power. He believed that the heartland's inaccessibility by sea and self-sufficiency in food made it a strategic center. Control of Eastern Europe was crucial to dominating the heartland. Although some critics argued that air power diminished the significance of the heartland, Mackinder maintained its importance.
The British elite and many other westerners regard the Russians as a hybrid Eurasian race that is inferior to northern/western races and culture. It's also essentially the cultural mindset that has been pushed in Ukraine since the 2014 Maidan color revolution, building upon 1930s Ukrainian nationalism embraced by the OUN, a racist ideology completely aligned with their WW2 nazi German allies, hence the hundreds of memorials to nazi collaborators like Bandera, Roman Shukhevych or Andriy Melnyk that have been erected all over central and western Ukraine since 2014.
Very few fans of Zelensky and proponents of the Ukraine war have an understanding of the deeper historical and cultural contexts of this war decribed above.
Even if Brits are super racist about Russians (or were in 1904) that doesn't mean Russia just gets to invade Ukraine. All this stuff is irrelevant.
sycasey said:
Even if Brits are super racist about Russians (or were in 1904) that doesn't mean Russia just gets to invade Ukraine. All this stuff is irrelevant.
Your interpretation of the events is at the very least based on cultural stereotypes of Russians, that they are bloodthirsty types who want to invade Europe, as if this was part of their DNA. The whole "if we don't stop them in Ukraine, they will roll into Berlin and Paris" narrative.
I don't think you realize that because that cultural mindset has been ingrained through decades of Cold War propaganda, were raised on Saturday morning Boris and Natasha cartoons and stereotypical Hollywood characters like Ivan Drago.
That's why when you are presented with facts like Burns' statements about Russia being pushed into this war, you will dismiss them out of hand and revert back to the simplistic "Putin Bad Hombre" narrative. The technical term for this is called cognitive dissonance.
Sounds... actually racist. Yet Russia probably produces 4x the engineers as supposedly superior UK.
FTR, in one interview Putin mentioned their vast land holdings and said effectively, they don't need more land. Though Europe is resource and leadership starved.
War is big business for Europe.
FTR, in one interview Putin mentioned their vast land holdings and said effectively, they don't need more land. Though Europe is resource and leadership starved.
War is big business for Europe.
sycasey said:movielover said:
So you're OK with Mexico putting large military bases in Ensenada, Nogales and Jurez?
Even the Talmud says if your enemy is coming to strike your home, you are allowed, even commanded, to protect yourself.
I would not be in favor of invading Mexico because they built military bases on their own territory, no. If they actually attacked us would be another story.
The UK didn't plan to put fish and chips shops on the Ukrainian border. FTR.
The aversion to Russia could just be that they have no history of freedom or democracy. Have historically invaded and conquered their neighbors and, in fact, have occupied half of Europe in our parents lifetimes and imposed deadly authoritarianism and economic backwardness on them.
dajo9 said:
The aversion to Russia could just be that they have no history of freedom or democracy. Have historically invaded and conquered their neighbors and, in fact, have occupied half of Europe in our parents lifetimes and imposed deadly authoritarianism and economic backwardness on them.
Russia has no colonies, unlike every other major European country or the US for that matter. Their people have enjoyed economic prosperity and social harmony that is unprecedented in their entire history, that is why Putin has had favorability ratings in the 60%-80% range while his counterparts from presumably democratic western countries like France, the UK or Germany have ratings in the 10%-20% and are hated by the majority of their population.
The Russians treat their minorities well, for instance you don't find the same type of unrest with their very large muslim population (14% of their total population) that you have in western Europe, or the same level of criminality, lack of security in Moscow or St Petersburg that you have today in Paris, London, Berlin or LA and Chicago for that matter.
Also, you're conflating the USSR and the Soviets (who have killed tens of millions of Russians in the 20th century) with the Russians, a common error that is based on a Cold War mindset and a lack of understanding of Russian history. No one in Russia today wants to colonize Hungary or Czechia.
Furthermore, Russia has a very rich history of cultural contributions to western and world civilization, from the arts, literature, music to the sciences, they are not the backwards culture that you believe they are, and those types of beliefs go a long way in explaining the kind of hostility you have towards that country.
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