Cal88 said:

---

movielover said:

---

Can you please comment on the alleged Nazi extremists in Eastern Ukraine.

---

Will do this weekend, have a big workload till then.

The last month or so, I have been bookmarking a lot of items that will shock people who aren't familiar with that aspect of Ukrainian nationalism.

---

Ukranian nationalism = Nazi extremism?

Modern Ukrainian nationalism is rooted in 1930s-40s western Ukrainian nationalism, which was fully integrated ideologically and militarily with Nazi Germany. The largest SS division in WW2 was Ukrainian, its insignia are widely displayed today, and its leaders like Stepan Bandera are worshipped as national heroes of Ukraine, with major thoroughfares and large monuments recently built to their glory across western and central Ukraine. I will post evidence of this later this week.

tequila4kapp said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

movielover said:

---

Can you please comment on the alleged Nazi extremists in Eastern Ukraine.

---

Will do this weekend, have a big workload till then.

The last month or so, I have been bookmarking a lot of items that will shock people who aren't familiar with that aspect of Ukrainian nationalism.

---

Ukranian nationalism = Nazi extremism?

---

Not necessarily, but it is true that the neo-Nazi type groups that exist in Ukraine ARE ALSO Ukrainian nationalists as a general rule. That's why they tended to be willing to go and fight the Russians.

Anyone who wants to argue that Ukraine is RULED by these Nazi groups is talking nonsense, though. Again, their President is Jewish.

This is helpful context for anyone who is really wondering whether Putin wants to "liberate" Russian speaking people in Mariupol. He loves them so much he is destroying their homes.

Please can I have 2.20 minutes of your time. When they captured the Ukrainian city of Mariupol, Russia celebrated. Russia celebrated doing this to a city of 450,00, largely Russian speaking residents. This is what Putin calls the liberation of #Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/4tRCy5LqGM

— Glasnost Gone (@GlasnostGone) November 2, 2022

Also, oopsies, looks like another "woke" Russian accidentally had a life-threatening fall. Good thing he wasn't too close to an open window. What a weird coincidence right? It's almost as if Putin is physically attacking any prominent Russian who calls him and the Kremlin out for their illegitimate war.

Quote:

---

A Russian lawmaker who called for an end to Putin's war in Ukraine is comatose in hospital after suffering serious head injuries.

Anatoly Karpov, 71, who was a chess grandmaster in the 1970s before turning to politics, is thought to have been injured in Moscow some time overnight on Saturday - amid claims he 'suffered a fall'.
He is now on a neurology ward at the renowned Sklifosovsky Institute and has been placed in a medically induced coma, with allies describing his condition as 'serious'.

Karpov is known as a Putin ultra-loyalist but has called for an end to the war in Ukraine 'so that peaceful people will stop dying.' He is just the latest member of Russia's elite to end up dead or seriously hurt since the invasion began.

While Karpov is seen as an ultra-loyalist and supporter of Putin's invasion of Ukraine, he has also publicly called for an end to the war.

He told a TV channel in Kazakhstan: 'I wish [the war] would end sooner, so that peaceful people would stop dying.'

He added: 'In the end ordinary people are the victims. Ordinary people fight, politicians and generals decide, and ordinary people fight, civilians die.

'I am not even talking about soldiers and officers. No, I could not imagine at all that Russians and Ukrainians would go to war. I have many friends in Ukraine.'

---

Mariupol was the HQ of the Azov Batallion, neo-nazi paramilitary militia whose logo prominently features two standout nazi emblems, the wolfsengel (featured by the Das Reich SS division), and the Black Sun, which is another representation of the swastika:


Azov is the largest and most famous neo-nazi military militia in Ukraine, one of about a dozen such military militias which were founded recently. They were mostly made up of non-locals from western Ukraine, who are hostile to the local russophone population. The central govt of Ukraine made sure that their main local military garrison in Mriupol, the Azov Batallion, is not made up of locals, because in Crimea and the Donbass most of the local military garrisons switched sides in 2014 at the beginning of the civil war. In Crimea, about 18,000 of the 21,000 Ukrainian army stationed there switched sides to Russia, that's why the Crimean transition was made peacefully.

After Russian forces swept through SE Ukraine and surrounded Mariupol, several thousands Azov Regiment militiamen dug in in the city, investing civilian apartment blocks and fighting Russians block by block, so a lot of the city was damaged.

Quote:

---

Ukrainian forces have put civilians in harm's way by establishing bases and operating weapons systems in populated residential areas, including in schools and hospitals, as they repelled the Russian invasion that began in February, Amnesty International said today.

Such tactics violate international humanitarian law and endanger civilians, as they turn civilian objects into military targets. The ensuing Russian strikes in populated areas have killed civilians and destroyed civilian infrastructure.

"We have documented a pattern of Ukrainian forces putting civilians at risk and violating the laws of war when they operate in populated areas," said Agns Callamard, Amnesty International's Secretary General. "Being in a defensive position does not exempt the Ukrainian military from respecting international humanitarian law.

---

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/

As well, the Russians completely flattened Grozny, Chechnia during their war with Chechnia in 2000, they have completely rebuilt Grozny a few years later, investing massively into Chechnian infrastructure. They already have started rebuilding Mariupol.

One point that is important to bring out when talking about the annexation of Crimea, the Donbass or Mariupol is that the local population does not view itself as being occupied, a large majority of them being pro-Russian. That's why there hasn't been much of an armed anti-Russian resistance there after these regions were taken over by Russia.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

...Also, oopsies, looks like another "woke" Russian accidentally had a life-threatening fall. Good thing he wasn't too close to an open window. What a weird coincidence right? It's almost as if Putin is physically attacking any prominent Russian who calls him and the Kremlin out for their illegitimate war.

Quote:

---

A Russian lawmaker who called for an end to Putin's war in Ukraine is comatose in hospital after suffering serious head injuries.

Anatoly Karpov, 71, who was a chess grandmaster in the 1970s before turning to politics, is thought to have been injured in Moscow some time overnight on Saturday - amid claims he 'suffered a fall'.
He is now on a neurology ward at the renowned Sklifosovsky Institute and has been placed in a medically induced coma, with allies describing his condition as 'serious'.

Karpov is known as a Putin ultra-loyalist but has called for an end to the war in Ukraine 'so that peaceful people will stop dying.' He is just the latest member of Russia's elite to end up dead or seriously hurt since the invasion began.

While Karpov is seen as an ultra-loyalist and supporter of Putin's invasion of Ukraine, he has also publicly called for an end to the war.

He told a TV channel in Kazakhstan: 'I wish [the war] would end sooner, so that peaceful people would stop dying.'

He added: 'In the end ordinary people are the victims. Ordinary people fight, politicians and generals decide, and ordinary people fight, civilians die.

'I am not even talking about soldiers and officers. No, I could not imagine at all that Russians and Ukrainians would go to war. I have many friends in Ukraine.'

---

---

The Daily Mail insinuates that it was a KGB-style hit job, though they bury the details in the bottom of the article about Karpov having been drunk in this fall which broke his hip and put him in a coma, and his daughter stating there was no foul play...

https://worldchess.com/news/all/anatoly-karpov-hospitalized-in-serious-condition/

https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/chess/anatoly-karpov-hospitalised-after-being-found-unresponsive-8241447/

Cal88 said:

---

Modern Ukrainian nationalism is rooted in 1930s-40s western Ukrainian nationalism, which was fully integrated ideologically and militarily with Nazi Germany. The largest SS division in WW2 was Ukrainian, its insignia are widely displayed today, and its leaders like Stepan Bandera are worshipped as national heroes of Ukraine, with major thoroughfares and large monuments recently built to their glory across western and central Ukraine. I will post evidence of this later this week.

---

You do know that much of (not all) of this service was FORCED on Ukrainians, right? Are you going to argue that Israel is Nazi because some Jews worked as a matter of survival in the concentration camps? Or that Poland too is Nazi for the same reasons? Is America also Nazi because we had town halls and Madison Square Garden filled with pro-Nazi rallies? Your claim is so out of context and so exaggerated and without any concession to what the Ukrainian people have been through.

My grandfather is Ukrainian. He was executed in Auschwitz because he spoke out against the SS and their capture and forced labor of young men in Ukraine. My mother, the most anti-Nazi liberal kind person I know was sent to brown shirt camp in Germany over summer to be indoctrinated. This wasn't a choice. It was survival. Either make a run for Russia and be purged by Stalin, or find a way to survive in occupied Ukraine/Poland. My family eventually escaped to Vienna with many harrowing encounters with Nazi soldiers (stories that give me chills) where they were sure they would be killed, and then to a Displaced Person's camp in Belgium where American kindness paved their way to migrate to America. I have many many relatives in Ukraine in Poland. They are incredibly proud of Ukraine and to be back in a free country where so many of their family were executed and persecuted all the way back to the Holodomor. They are not fascists or communists or Nazis. They are patriots who relish freedom and democracy. They resent Russia and celebrate Americans. Get your nose out of your research and websites. Quit seeing everything through your obvious Russian bias. I have lived experience with the actual people. They are no more Nazi than we are here--the only difference being that they live in a very desired piece of real estate that has been under virtual assault for centuries. That does tend to make you more nationalistic and militaristic--but not Nazi and not a country to NOT side with against Russia. Ukraine is a great ally that aligns with our economic and political ideals and objectives. Russia does not. This is not complicated. Russia invaded a burgeoning democracy and flooded the world with misinformation and propaganda that you and others repeat.

movielover said:

---

3. Why does the country have such a problem w corruption?

---

I'll answer that last one: it's mostly because they are right next to Russia and the Russian government is constantly trying to meddle in their affairs.

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

3. Why does the country have such a problem w corruption?

---

I'll answer that last one: it's mostly because they are right next to Russia and the Russian government is constantly trying to meddle in their affairs.

---

That's the short answer. Here's a long answer that movielover will never read but others may find interesting. It should surprise no one who's been paying attention that Paul Manafort, Putin and his oligarchs are at the very center of Ukrainian corruption. That also of course informed Trump's worldview when he tried to corruptly induce Ukraine to announce the launch of a fake investigation into Joe Biden in order to help Trump steal the 2020 election.

So many points in the article are spot on but I will note just a few. If you read the article you will see how critical Mariupol is and for those who recall, Mariupol was also the destroyed city I posted a video of above.

Quote:

---

Kilimnik cleared customs at Kennedy Airport at 7:43 p.m., only 77 minutes before the scheduled rendezvous at the Grand Havana Room, a Trump-world hangout atop 666 Fifth Avenue, the Manhattan office tower owned by the family of Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Shortly after the appointed hour, Kilimnik walked onto a perfectly put-up stage set for a caricature drama of furtive figures hatching covert schemes with questionable intent a dark-lit cigar bar with mahogany-paneled walls and floor-to-ceiling windows columned in thick velvet drapes, its leather club chairs typically filled by large men with open collars sipping Scotch and drawing on parejos and figurados. Men, that is, like Paul Manafort, with his dyed-black pompadour and penchant for pinstripes. There, with the skyline shimmering though the cigar-smoke haze, Kilimnik shared a secret plan whose significance would only become clear six years later, as Vladimir V. Putin's invading Russian Army pushed into Ukraine.

Known loosely as the Mariupol plan, after the strategically vital port city, it called for the creation of an autonomous republic in Ukraine's east, giving Putin effective control of the country's industrial heartland, where Kremlin-armed, -funded and -directed "separatists" were waging a two-year-old shadow war that had left nearly 10,000 dead. The new republic's leader would be none other than Yanukovych. The trade-off: "peace" for a broken and subservient Ukraine.

The scheme cut against decades of American policy promoting a free and united Ukraine, and a President Clinton would no doubt maintain, or perhaps even harden, that stance. But Trump was already suggesting that he would upend the diplomatic status quo; if elected, Kilimnik believed, Trump could help make the Mariupol plan a reality. First, though, he would have to win, an unlikely proposition at best. Which brought the men to the second prong of their agenda that evening internal campaign polling data tracing a path through battleground states to victory. Manafort's sharing of that information the "eyes only" code guiding Trump's strategy would have been unremarkable if not for one important piece of Kilimnik's biography: He was not simply a colleague; he was, U.S. officials would later assert, a Russian agent.

---

Quote:

---

"In U.S. politics," says Tetiana Shevchuk, a lawyer with the Anti-Corruption Action Center, a reform group based in Kyiv, "it's called 'culture wars,' when they pick some issue which is not the high priority for society right now but can easily be made into something. He was pushing something like the idea that there are two types of Ukrainians there are Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians and Russian-speaking Ukrainians."

....

Still, Manafort's line of attack coincided with a budding Russian intelligence operation that was engaging in "manipulation of issues like the status of the Russian language" to stoke a separatist rebellion in the Crimean Peninsula and "prevent Ukraine's movement west into institutions like NATO and the E.U.," according to a leaked U.S. Embassy cable from the time. Nearly two decades later, Putin would employ similar messaging over language and national identity as justifications for his war and illegal annexations in the east.

---

Quote:

---

It did not take long for Yanukovych to begin backsliding on his democracy pledges. He jailed his opponent, the former Orange leader Yulia Tymoshenko; ratcheted back press freedoms by criminalizing defamation and bringing trumped-up investigations of opposition media outlets; presided over the plundering of public funds; rigged the 2012 parliamentary elections; and reversed a plan to end Russia's lease on the Crimean port of Sevastopol, where its naval fleet was viewed as a stalking horse for a Putin takeover.

Soon several of Manafort's democracy consultants dropped out in disappointment. For his part, Manafort expanded his role with Yanukovych, becoming something of a shadow foreign-policy adviser and emissary to the West. He was also, prosecutors later charged, working as an unregistered foreign agent, running secret lobbying campaigns in Washington and Brussels to stave off sanctions over the Tymoshenko jailing while insisting that Yanukovych was still pursuing his economic deal with Europe.

But that tenuous bridge to the West could not hold. Under pressure from Putin, Yanukovych abruptly reversed course in late 2013, breaking off talks with Europe and deepening his economic commitment to Russia. By the tens of thousands, protesters again streamed into Maidan square. Weeks of standoff, punctuated by violence, came to a deadly denouement over three days in February 2014, when a government crackdown left dozens dead, mere yards from Manafort's office.

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

3. Why does the country have such a problem w corruption?

---

I'll answer that last one: it's mostly because they are right next to Russia and the Russian government is constantly trying to meddle in their affairs.

---

You left off Hunter Biden, who appears to have no knowledge of energy, yet advised Burisma Holdings in Ukraine and allegedly made at least $3 million.

And at another point, Vice President Biden threatened to withhold $1 Billion in foreign loan guarentees to Ukraine unless they fired prosecutor Viktor Shokin. Shokin was digging into corruption and Burisma Holdings. Biden bragged about this publicly, on film.

Hunter Biden's laptop also allegedly has emails that say that ten percent of the monies go to "thr big guy" - Joe Biden.

Of coarse, there has always been speculation about how the Senator from MBNA could build a lakeside mansion, and then a 2,000 square foot guest house, on a senators salary. On Hunter Biden's laptop there are allegedly emails which claim that Hunter (aka the bagman) "pays for everything".

movielover said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

3. Why does the country have such a problem w corruption?

---

I'll answer that last one: it's mostly because they are right next to Russia and the Russian government is constantly trying to meddle in their affairs.

---

You left off Hunter Biden, who appears to have no knowledge of energy, yet advised Burisma Holdings in Ukraine and allegedly made at least $3 million.

---

I see. This wasn't a real question. It was just an excuse to talk about Hunter Biden again.

blungld said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

Modern Ukrainian nationalism is rooted in 1930s-40s western Ukrainian nationalism, which was fully integrated ideologically and militarily with Nazi Germany. The largest SS division in WW2 was Ukrainian, its insignia are widely displayed today, and its leaders like Stepan Bandera are worshipped as national heroes of Ukraine, with major thoroughfares and large monuments recently built to their glory across western and central Ukraine. I will post evidence of this later this week.

---

You do know that much of (not all) of this service was FORCED on Ukrainians, right? Are you going to argue that Israel is Nazi because some Jews worked as a matter of survival in the concentration camps? Or that Poland too is Nazi for the same reasons? Is America also Nazi because we had town halls and Madison Square Garden filled with pro-Nazi rallies? Your claim is so out of context and so exaggerated and without any concession to what the Ukrainian people have been through.

My grandfather is Ukrainian. He was executed in Auschwitz because he spoke out against the SS and their capture and forced labor of young men in Ukraine. My mother, the most anti-Nazi liberal kind person I know was sent to brown shirt camp in Germany over summer to be indoctrinated. This wasn't a choice. It was survival. Either make a run for Russia and be purged by Stalin, or find a way to survive in occupied Ukraine/Poland. My family eventually escaped to Vienna with many harrowing encounters with Nazi soldiers (stories that give me chills) where they were sure they would be killed, and then to a Displaced Person's camp in Belgium where American kindness paved their way to migrate to America. I have many many relatives in Ukraine in Poland. They are incredibly proud of Ukraine and to be back in a free country where so many of their family were executed and persecuted all the way back to the Holodomor. They are not fascists or communists or Nazis. They are patriots who relish freedom and democracy. They resent Russia and celebrate Americans. Get your nose out of your research and websites. Quit seeing everything through your obvious Russian bias. I have lived experience with the actual people. They are no more Nazi than we are here--the only difference being that they live in a very desired piece of real estate that has been under virtual assault for centuries. That does tend to make you more nationalistic and militaristic--but not Nazi and not a country to NOT side with against Russia. Ukraine is a great ally that aligns with our economic and political ideals and objectives. Russia does not. This is not complicated. Russia invaded a burgeoning democracy and flooded the world with misinformation and propaganda that you and others repeat.

---

I have relatives in Ukraine as well, my brother being married to a Ukrainian from Dnipro. Her family and many of her relatives have fled last winter to Slovakia, Poland and Russia, some (especially the younger) several years ago due to the state of the economy in Ukraine, which has never been good since the 1990s. Her son is of prime military age, thankfully he has emigrated to Poland several years ago, or he would have been thrown into the battlefront right now. Her extended family has split allegiances, being russophones, with the older generation being largely pro-Russian, as are her relatives from Odessa.

Quote:

---

Are you going to argue that Israel is Nazi because some Jews worked as a matter of survival in the concentration camps? Or that Poland too is Nazi for the same reasons? Is America also Nazi because we had town halls and Madison Square Garden filled with pro-Nazi rallies? Your claim is so out of context and so exaggerated and without any concession to what the Ukrainian people have been through.

---

Poland doesn't have active neo-nazi battalions in its army, or major monuments recently erected to the glory of SS leaders like Stepan Bandera in its main town squares, or main thoroughfares recently named after their WW2 Ukrainian SS leaders. No country in Europe does, except Ukraine, which has literally many dozens of them. You can't say this is forced on Ukraine, they've literally voted in favor of honoring Bandera with a national holiday:

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-nazi-collaborator-birthday-holiday-anti-semitic-1272911

Modern Ukrainian nationalism is married to their nazi collaborator past. There are many, many stunning examples of this, here are just a couple for now:

Why are these people getting billions of dollars from me and every other U.S. taxpayer? https://t.co/lIaEn5kpIz

— Margaret Kimberley (@freedomrideblog) October 30, 2022

This is the heritage these people are honoring, that of the Galician SS division, the largest SS division in WW2, which has committed genocide against Poles, Jews and Roma in western Ukraine:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)

Ukrainian soldiers sing to the glory of Bandera: "our father is Bandera, our mother is Ukraine":

Paracaidistas ucranianos de L'viv cantan:

"¡Nuestro padre es Bandera, nuestra madre es Ucrania!"

¿Sabes quién es Stepan Bandera? pic.twitter.com/POsX8JG0SP

— DΛVID.cu (@David_qva) October 22, 2022

Thousands of Ukrainian fans give the nazi salute while scanding Slava Ukaraini:

No Nazi salutes in 🇺🇦Ukraine - you're imagining it all. pic.twitter.com/ElCQIj1Eyd

— Janebond (@Janebon34813396) October 30, 2022

This is the treatment that is reserved to some Russian-speaking minorities in western Ukraine, those are not European values:

I have stated it many times - this country protects no values, I stand for. This whole state is rotten to the core. This is just happening in their controlled territory, imagine the cruelty that the people in Donbass had to expect, without 🇷🇺 intervention
pic.twitter.com/GBl8oc4XhJ

— Zlatti71 (@djuric_zlatko) November 3, 2022

movielover said:

---

You left off Hunter Biden, who appears to have no knowledge of energy, yet advised Burisma Holdings in Ukraine and allegedly made at least $3 million.

---

Donald Trump knew nothing about business.
Yet he started up 6 companies that filed for CHAPTER 11 BANKRUPTCY.

DiabloWags said:

---

movielover said:

---

You left off Hunter Biden, who appears to have no knowledge of energy, yet advised Burisma Holdings in Ukraine and allegedly made at least $3 million.

---

Donald Trump knew nothing about business.
***This is an opinion and an incorrect one.
Yet he started up 6 companies that filed for CHAPTER 11 BANKRUPTCY.
***This has nothing to do with the fact that Hunter Biden was allegedly paid more than 3 million to advise Burisma.

---

You really went off the rails here. Are you defending Biden's role in Ukranian corruption by saying Trump is a poor businessman? You are making zero sense.
See comments in asterisks above.

oski003 said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

movielover said:

---

You left off Hunter Biden, who appears to have no knowledge of energy, yet advised Burisma Holdings in Ukraine and allegedly made at least $3 million.

---

Donald Trump knew nothing about business.
***This is an opinion and an incorrect one.
Yet he started up 6 companies that filed for CHAPTER 11 BANKRUPTCY.
***This has nothing to do with the fact that Hunter Biden was allegedly paid more than 3 million to advise Burisma.

---

You really went off the rails here. Are you defending Biden's role in Ukranian corruption by saying Trump is a poor businessman? You are making zero sense.
See comments in asterisks above.

---

Biden's role in Ukrainian corruption was to press them to fire a prosecutor who WAS corrupt, and just about everyone in our government (including Republicans) and our European allies all agreed that he was. Him getting that guy fired had nothing to do with protecting Hunter or Burisma; he was carrying out US policy as a representative of our government.

sycasey said:

---

oski003 said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

movielover said:

---

You left off Hunter Biden, who appears to have no knowledge of energy, yet advised Burisma Holdings in Ukraine and allegedly made at least $3 million.

---

Donald Trump knew nothing about business.
***This is an opinion and an incorrect one.
Yet he started up 6 companies that filed for CHAPTER 11 BANKRUPTCY.
***This has nothing to do with the fact that Hunter Biden was allegedly paid more than 3 million to advise Burisma.

---

You really went off the rails here. Are you defending Biden's role in Ukranian corruption by saying Trump is a poor businessman? You are making zero sense.
See comments in asterisks above.

---

Biden's role in Ukrainian corruption was to press them to fire a prosecutor who WAS corrupt, and just about everyone in our government (including Republicans) and our European allies all agreed that he was. Him getting that guy fired had nothing to do with protecting Hunter or Burisma; he was carrying out US policy as a representative of our government.

---

We were talking about Hunter Biden. If you are discussing Joe generally, you should be addressing somebody else.

Sycasey, why are you bothering to continue to engage with someone that lies?

Why bother engaging with someone that entered into a bet claiming that fentanyl hospitalizations would occur due to Halloween candy being given out in which the terms of the bet (that he himself defined) were for him to leave Bearinsider forever if there were no hospitalizations - - - and yet he welched on the bet and is still here posting.

He's on my ignore list.
He should be on yours too.

DiabloWags said:

---

movielover said:

---

You left off Hunter Biden, who appears to have no knowledge of energy, yet advised Burisma Holdings in Ukraine and allegedly made at least $3 million.

---

Donald Trump knew nothing about business.
Yet he started up 6 companies that filed for CHAPTER 11 BANKRUPTCY.

---

And the Trump name is known worldwide because of ... body building? No. And why did The Apprentice seek him out? TDS.

sycasey said:

---

oski003 said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

movielover said:

---

You left off Hunter Biden, who appears to have no knowledge of energy, yet advised Burisma Holdings in Ukraine and allegedly made at least $3 million.

---

Donald Trump knew nothing about business.
***This is an opinion and an incorrect one.
Yet he started up 6 companies that filed for CHAPTER 11 BANKRUPTCY.
***This has nothing to do with the fact that Hunter Biden was allegedly paid more than 3 million to advise Burisma.

---

You really went off the rails here. Are you defending Biden's role in Ukranian corruption by saying Trump is a poor businessman? You are making zero sense.
See comments in asterisks above.

---

Biden's role in Ukrainian corruption was to press them to fire a prosecutor who WAS corrupt, and just about everyone in our government (including Republicans) and our European allies all agreed that he was. Him getting that guy fired had nothing to do with protecting Hunter or Burisma; he was carrying out US policy as a representative of our government.

---

And who is "ten percent for the big guy"?

DiabloWags said:

---

Sycasey, why are you bothering to continue to engage with someone that lies?

Why bother engaging with someone that entered into a bet claiming that fentanyl hospitalizations would occur due to Halloween candy being given out in which the terms of the bet (that he himself defined) were for him to leave Bearinsider forever if there were no hospitalizations - - - and yet he welched on the bet and is still here posting.

He's on my ignore list.
He should be on yours too.

---

Why do you keep talking about me, man? Why are you summarizing (wrongly) something that happened while I was on your ignore list, as you have bragged about having me on at least on four separate occasions? Don't bully to stop speech.

oski003 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

oski003 said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

movielover said:

---

You left off Hunter Biden, who appears to have no knowledge of energy, yet advised Burisma Holdings in Ukraine and allegedly made at least $3 million.

---

Donald Trump knew nothing about business.
***This is an opinion and an incorrect one.
Yet he started up 6 companies that filed for CHAPTER 11 BANKRUPTCY.
***This has nothing to do with the fact that Hunter Biden was allegedly paid more than 3 million to advise Burisma.

---

You really went off the rails here. Are you defending Biden's role in Ukranian corruption by saying Trump is a poor businessman? You are making zero sense.
See comments in asterisks above.

---

Biden's role in Ukrainian corruption was to press them to fire a prosecutor who WAS corrupt, and just about everyone in our government (including Republicans) and our European allies all agreed that he was. Him getting that guy fired had nothing to do with protecting Hunter or Burisma; he was carrying out US policy as a representative of our government.

---

We were talking about Hunter Biden. If you are discussing Joe generally, you should be addressing somebody else.

---

Okay. I don't care about Hunter Biden's role because he's not part of our government, and I don't think being a member of one company's board means he would have a particularly large role in Ukrainian corruption.

I have 3 million ways to disagree.

The whole Ukraine is a bunch of nazi's thing' is a bunch of rubbish. There are elements of neo-nazism that got incorporated into military groups but they make up less than 1% of the military. Also, the neo-Nazi supported candidates held zero seats in parliament. Therefore, the arguments Ukraine is run by nazis and the military is fed by nazis is untrue. The representation within the Ukraine would be on par with that of other European and western countries.

I'm pretty sure I posted some links about this about 30 pages ago.

Russia doesnt want to fight nazi's, their goal in Ukraine is to conquer and take their land. All the other reasons are PR cover.

Take the eastern portion, or the whole pie? My take was the former.

I believe Russia's goals have changed as the war has gone on (as it has gone badly).

Originally, I believe they wanted to take all of ukraine, and then take Moldova as well. At this point it would have gotten interesting, as the next wish list countries would have been the baltics which Putin said should be apart of Russia about 6 months ago, citing the russian conquest from the swedes in the 1700s. It would have been interesting because they are NATO members and Im not sure if Russia would have invaded a NATO country but they do want that territory, as they rebuild the Soviet empire and the expand to defensible geographical borders.

Given how the war has gone, the goals have changed dramatically. Now, I believe Russia wants to hang on to what they've grabbed in Ukraine, make peace for a year or so as they rebuild their military industrial complex and retrain their soldiers so they can break that peace treaty and conquer the rest of Ukraine. I dont know if they've abandoned their goal of reconquering all the lost Soviet satellites, but in think Putin would still like to if he has that option.

This is why I support supporting Ukraine as long as they want to fight, because exhausting or defeating Russia in Ukraine limits the risk of further russian aggression and therefore the risk of direct confrontation with nato and therefore the us military.

The way I see it there are two good reasons to support ukraine:
1. Ukraine is an independent country with the right to exist and make their own decisions
2. Providing weapons to Ukraine is cheaper than fighting Russia on the battlefield.

movielover said:

---

Take the eastern portion, or the whole pie? My take was the former.

---

They sent tanks to Kiev. They wanted the whole pie. Only now that they've been beaten back do they only want the eastern portion.

Agree.
I don't see eye to eye with this admin on much of anything but I think Biden has done a very good job with Ukraine.