Why are the Zelenksy fan boys and girls particularly upset today?
The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread
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Last: 8 hrs ago by Eastern Oregon Bear
BearHunter said:There were two conservatives on this board and they were kicked out by the left wing mob.sycasey said:It's one of the more remarkably non-partisan topics we've had in Off Topic. Conservatives and liberals alike coming together to tell you why you're wrong.Cal88 said:
I guess this debate has unfortunately turned very partisan,
I'm sure you've found new aliases by now.
golden sloth said:Cal88 said:sycasey said:It's one of the more remarkably non-partisan topics we've had in Off Topic. Conservatives and liberals alike coming together to tell you why you're wrong.Cal88 said:
I guess this debate has unfortunately turned very partisan,
Liz Cheney conservatives and Clinton liberals.
The other point, more importantly, is that the majority of people have a very distorted picture of what is actually going on in Ukraine now, and for the last decade. If people knew, we would be on the same page.
Translation: if everyone just thought like me they'd agree.
And no, the reason why nobody agrees with you is because you have a distorted picture of what is going on, which is why you are nearly always wrong.
The reason you believe I am wrong is mainly because you are fed false information by the media, which doesn't report on events and outcomes that don't go Ukraine's way.
For instance, the media relayed Ukraine's claim to have intercepted 29 of 30 Russian cruise missiles during their attack of May 16th, when it turned out the power went out in 26 Ukrainian cities that night, as confirmed by Ukrainian utilities spokesmen...
In your version of Ukraine and the war:
-there are no nazis in Ukraine, and if there are some, they are marginal and not influential
-Ukraine is winning, the Russians are being routed
-Russia is going to lose this war
-Russia is going to run out of weapons, of ammo, of missiles, of soldiers
-Russia blew up its own pipelines, they just can't help it
-Russia put Trump in power
-Crimea has been conquered by Russia against the locals' will
-so is the Donbass
-the war started in Feb '22 because Putin likes to conquer neighbors because Putler
-Russia is a backwards hellhole that is crumbling under economic pressure
-the world is behind Ukraine
-the media is telling the truth on Ukraine
and so forth.
They (you) were kicked out by the admins after being warned several times about their (your) behavior and rules breaking.BearHunter said:There were two conservatives on this board and they were kicked out by the left wing mob.sycasey said:It's one of the more remarkably non-partisan topics we've had in Off Topic. Conservatives and liberals alike coming together to tell you why you're wrong.Cal88 said:
I guess this debate has unfortunately turned very partisan,
Cal88 said:golden sloth said:Cal88 said:sycasey said:It's one of the more remarkably non-partisan topics we've had in Off Topic. Conservatives and liberals alike coming together to tell you why you're wrong.Cal88 said:
I guess this debate has unfortunately turned very partisan,
Liz Cheney conservatives and Clinton liberals.
The other point, more importantly, is that the majority of people have a very distorted picture of what is actually going on in Ukraine now, and for the last decade. If people knew, we would be on the same page.
Translation: if everyone just thought like me they'd agree.
And no, the reason why nobody agrees with you is because you have a distorted picture of what is going on, which is why you are nearly always wrong.
The reason you believe I am wrong is mainly because you are fed false information by the media, which doesn't report on events and outcomes that don't go Ukraine's way.
For instance, the media relayed Ukraine's claim to have intercepted 29 of 30 Russian cruise missiles during their attack of May 16th, when it turned out the power went out in 26 Ukrainian cities that night, as confirmed by Ukrainian utilities spokesmen...
In your version of Ukraine and the war:
-there are no nazis in Ukraine, and if there are some, they are marginal and not influential
-Ukraine is winning, the Russians are being routed
-Russia is going to lose this war
-Russia is going to run out of weapons, of ammo, of missiles, of soldiers
-Russia blew up its own pipelines, they just can't help it
-Russia put Trump in power
-Crimea has been conquered by Russia against the locals' will
-so is the Donbass
-the war started in Feb '22 because Putin likes to conquer neighbors because Putler
-Russia is a backwards hellhole that is crumbling under economic pressure
-the world is behind Ukraine
-the media is telling the truth on Ukraine
and so forth.
No. I believe you are wrong because you are, and everything you post further proves that point. So thank you for continually making my point for you. Please post more.
golden sloth said:Cal88 said:golden sloth said:Cal88 said:sycasey said:It's one of the more remarkably non-partisan topics we've had in Off Topic. Conservatives and liberals alike coming together to tell you why you're wrong.Cal88 said:
I guess this debate has unfortunately turned very partisan,
Liz Cheney conservatives and Clinton liberals.
The other point, more importantly, is that the majority of people have a very distorted picture of what is actually going on in Ukraine now, and for the last decade. If people knew, we would be on the same page.
Translation: if everyone just thought like me they'd agree.
And no, the reason why nobody agrees with you is because you have a distorted picture of what is going on, which is why you are nearly always wrong.
The reason you believe I am wrong is mainly because you are fed false information by the media, which doesn't report on events and outcomes that don't go Ukraine's way.
For instance, the media relayed Ukraine's claim to have intercepted 29 of 30 Russian cruise missiles during their attack of May 16th, when it turned out the power went out in 26 Ukrainian cities that night, as confirmed by Ukrainian utilities spokesmen...
In your version of Ukraine and the war:
-there are no nazis in Ukraine, and if there are some, they are marginal and not influential
-Ukraine is winning, the Russians are being routed
-Russia is going to lose this war
-Russia is going to run out of weapons, of ammo, of missiles, of soldiers
-Russia blew up its own pipelines, they just can't help it
-Russia put Trump in power
-Crimea has been conquered by Russia against the locals' will
-so is the Donbass
-the war started in Feb '22 because Putin likes to conquer neighbors because Putler
-Russia is a backwards hellhole that is crumbling under economic pressure
-the world is behind Ukraine
-the media is telling the truth on Ukraine
and so forth.
No. I believe you are wrong because you are, and everything you post further proves that point. So thank you for continually making my point for you. Please post more.
Maybe our sources are inaccurate. We should probably trust the ones who first said Russia would not invade Ukraine, and then once they did, said that Russia would win the war in less than a month. Those people are much more trustworthy.
Much more so than those who imply that Russia blew up its own pipelines, or hide the real number of Ukrainian casualties.
Not guessing the right outcome of future events with unknown variables, such as the date and eventual invasion of Russia, or whether their campaign could have led to an immediate political settlement (which was a real possibility through the Istanbul talks a month into the war) is not the same thing as actively lying about past events, or covering up basic facts.
Not guessing the right outcome of future events with unknown variables, such as the date and eventual invasion of Russia, or whether their campaign could have led to an immediate political settlement (which was a real possibility through the Istanbul talks a month into the war) is not the same thing as actively lying about past events, or covering up basic facts.
> They (you) were kicked out by the admins after being warned several times about their (your) behavior and rules breaking.
yet, like in the movies, it's baack
yet, like in the movies, it's baack
muting more than 300 handles, turnaround is fair play
smh said:
> They (you) were kicked out by the admins after being warned several times about their (your) behavior and rules breaking.
yet, like in the movies, it's baack
You know, there are more conservatives in the world than the liberals would like to believe. Possible and maybe likely that they are different persons. Yogi was the only person here who used multiple handles in an open fashion.
golden sloth said:movielover said:dimitrig said:smh said:
> How does this war ever end?
Putin "retires"
The same way Vietnam ended. Ukraine keeps fighting Russia as long it takes for them to pack up and go home.
Good luck with that.
NATO in Ukraine is an existential threat to Russia; Vietnam was no such threat to America, along with being 9,000 miles away.
Meanwhile, Zelensky continues his CYA world tour after an attack on the Kremlin. Now in the UK.
Ukraine was never joining NATO.
You must pardon Movielover.
His command of facts and basic reading comprehension is quite poor.
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
Eastern Oregon Bear said:They (you) were kicked out by the admins after being warned several times about their (your) behavior and rules breaking.BearHunter said:There were two conservatives on this board and they were kicked out by the left wing mob.sycasey said:It's one of the more remarkably non-partisan topics we've had in Off Topic. Conservatives and liberals alike coming together to tell you why you're wrong.Cal88 said:
I guess this debate has unfortunately turned very partisan,
These people were clearly BANNED by the Administrator of this platform, and yet this guy claims he and his "buddy" were "kicked out by a left wing mob"
Lmfao.
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
For all of the doomers worried about the spend in Ukraine, the ROI is tremendous and we haven't had to risk a single US soldier to gain it.
On the other side, the longer this war goes on the more we learn about massive corruption in Russia. The kleptocracy Putin has built doesn't just enrich him, a lot of others have to wet their beaks and that's a big part of why they will continue to underperform.
[more in the thread]
Further, a lot of the "forces" that Russia pretends to have are only on paper so that that kleptocrats can steal more payroll.
There's a lot more to dig into for anyone interested.
The good news for unhappy, poorly treated Russian soldiers is that they often fare better as POWs than they do while fighting for Russia.
And yes, I'm aware that this post will be followed by a bunch of propaganda hastily downloaded from a discord server or some other propaganda firehose and that it will all be false or misleading. That's why I suggest you assess the credibility of the posters here, just like with any other internet source.
In my opinion, the arrest of these three Russians "for treason" is pure scapegoating for the fact Russia simply lacked the electronic technological base to decoy a Patriot missile active millimeter wave radar seeker.
— Trent Telenko (@TrentTelenko) May 18, 2023
The Russian MoD told Putin it could & stole the $$$⬇️ https://t.co/nLoL9H1K0q
On the other side, the longer this war goes on the more we learn about massive corruption in Russia. The kleptocracy Putin has built doesn't just enrich him, a lot of others have to wet their beaks and that's a big part of why they will continue to underperform.
2/ The VChK-OGPU Telegram channel reports that an embezzlement investigation concerning the installation of software for ballistic missile and cruise missile detection radars has spawned another major investigation relating to corruption in the construction of the NDCC.
— ChrisO_wiki (@ChrisO_wiki) May 18, 2023
4/ It was opened in 2014 after huge cost overruns – it reportedly cost over 40 billion rubles ($500 million), which VChK-OGPU says was spent on "beautiful sofas, armchairs, televisions and computers for fabulous money (bought at several times higher than the market value)." pic.twitter.com/mxIQhZtKad
— ChrisO_wiki (@ChrisO_wiki) May 18, 2023
[more in the thread]
15/ The scandal may potentially reach as far as Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu himself. He created the NDCC and is known for his lavish spending on luxury properties, such as this Asian-style dacha near Moscow. /end
— ChrisO_wiki (@ChrisO_wiki) May 18, 2023
Sources:
🔹https://t.co/QNU5TSfTZo
🔹 https://t.co/HEDk04upFb pic.twitter.com/LReZkm8Zl5
Further, a lot of the "forces" that Russia pretends to have are only on paper so that that kleptocrats can steal more payroll.
The generally accepted Western Intelligence order of battle for the Russian Army in Feb 2022 was ~400,000.
— Trent Telenko (@TrentTelenko) May 19, 2023
The actual body count was not over 300k due to the "ghost troop" scam.
That is 1/4 of the troops existed only on paper & Russian officers pocketed that 1/4 payroll.
3/ pic.twitter.com/ZZRM23lm4z
There's a lot more to dig into for anyone interested.
The good news for unhappy, poorly treated Russian soldiers is that they often fare better as POWs than they do while fighting for Russia.
Russians surrender en masse! They say that they are better fed in Ukrainian captivity and they have not bathed for months when at the front.https://t.co/xgPbCV0EwH pic.twitter.com/3Zuy7rLld3
— Sander (@SanderRegter) May 17, 2023
And yes, I'm aware that this post will be followed by a bunch of propaganda hastily downloaded from a discord server or some other propaganda firehose and that it will all be false or misleading. That's why I suggest you assess the credibility of the posters here, just like with any other internet source.
DiabloWags said:golden sloth said:movielover said:dimitrig said:smh said:
> How does this war ever end?
Putin "retires"
The same way Vietnam ended. Ukraine keeps fighting Russia as long it takes for them to pack up and go home.
Good luck with that.
NATO in Ukraine is an existential threat to Russia; Vietnam was no such threat to America, along with being 9,000 miles away.
Meanwhile, Zelensky continues his CYA world tour after an attack on the Kremlin. Now in the UK.
Ukraine was never joining NATO.
You must pardon Movielover.
His command of facts and basic reading comprehension is quite poor.
I'm not sure why you're arguing about this basic fact, or trying to use it to discredit ML for stating that NATO is expanding to Ukraine, Ukraine has been a de facto NATO member, receiving huge military and financial support from NATO countries, and on its way to becoming a de jure NATO member.
Unit2Sucks said:
For all of the doomers worried about the spend in Ukraine, the ROI is tremendous and we haven't had to risk a single US soldier to gain it.
Does your ROI calculation include the 300,000 Ukrainian dead soldiers?
How does your alleged Russian military corruption compare with that of the Ukrainian clique that has siphoned off $400M just from the diesel fuel scam, and off of US taxpayers to boot?
How many POW does Ukraine have, and how does it compare to the number detained by Russia?
Are the videos of Ukrainian soldiers shooting Russians in the leg and watching them die faked?
Cal88 said:Unit2Sucks said:
For all of the doomers worried about the spend in Ukraine, the ROI is tremendous and we haven't had to risk a single US soldier to gain it.
Does your ROI calculation include the 300,000 Ukrainian dead soldiers?
Did Putin's calculations include the deaths of that many people? If not, why so incompetent? If so, why so cool with all that death?
Haloski said:Cal88 said:Unit2Sucks said:
For all of the doomers worried about the spend in Ukraine, the ROI is tremendous and we haven't had to risk a single US soldier to gain it.
Does your ROI calculation include the 300,000 Ukrainian dead soldiers?
Did Putin's calculations include the deaths of that many people? If not, why so incompetent? If so, why so cool with all that death?
I'm not "cool with the death" of that many Ukrainians, that was the whole point of my question above to U2S, who was saying that the Ukraine operation was an awesome campaign because American soldiers are not dying.
The Russians have had somewhere between 40,000 and 70,000 deaths, around 5 to 7 times fewer KIAs than Ukraine, according to Macgregor and other military analysts who aren't in bed with the MIC. The Russians' goal is to exhaust the Ukrainian military in a limited engagement using their huge advantages in military hardware/ammunition, standoff weapons and aviation.
We could well end up with another 300,000 dead a year from now, which wouldn't be cool. All for nothing, because the outcome will still be a negotiated settlement with Russia, the only difference will be the body count reached before that settlement, and the fact that Ukraine will be in a weaker still position.
A recent example of blatant Baghdad Bob-like announcements that never get questioned in the MSM: the Ukrainian ministry of Defense declares having stopped 29 of 30 Russian missiles in their recent attack, while at the same time the Ukrainian Ministry of Energy declares that power was just knocked out in 20 Ukrainian cities:
NEWS UPDATE AIR WAR DISINFORMATION MAY 18
— Mikael Valtersson (@MikaelValterss1) May 18, 2023
One russian missile takes out energy for 20 ukrainian cities. According to ukrainian MoD 29 of 30 russian missiles was shot down during last nights missile attack. At the same time ukrainian Ministry of Energy admits that 20 cities in… pic.twitter.com/zSLJiaCKta
So what? As a free and independent nation they have the right to chose their alliances and modes of defense. Did Ukraine use that military aid to invade Russia or defend itself from invasion? I know, I know, Russia had no choice, it was backed into a corner by the existential threat posed by Ukraine.Cal88 said:DiabloWags said:golden sloth said:movielover said:Good luck with that.dimitrig said:smh said:
> How does this war ever end?
Putin "retires"
The same way Vietnam ended. Ukraine keeps fighting Russia as long it takes for them to pack up and go home.
NATO in Ukraine is an existential threat to Russia; Vietnam was no such threat to America, along with being 9,000 miles away.
Meanwhile, Zelensky continues his CYA world tour after an attack on the Kremlin. Now in the UK.
Ukraine was never joining NATO.
You must pardon Movielover.
His command of facts and basic reading comprehension is quite poor.
I'm not sure why you're arguing about this basic fact, or trying to use it to discredit ML for stating that NATO is expanding to Ukraine, Ukraine has been a de facto NATO member, receiving huge military and financial support from NATO countries, and on its way to becoming a de jure NATO member.
tequila4kapp said:
So what? As a free and independent nation they have the right to chose their alliances and modes of defense. Did Ukraine use that military aid to invade Russia or defend itself from invasion? I know, I know, Russia had no choice, it was backed into a corner by the existential threat posed by Ukraine.
Post-Maidan Ukraine is not free and independent, it is the result of a coup sponsored by a foreign element overthrowing the democratically-elected government. The Maidan government then proceeded to shut down the opposition and use NATO military aid to repress its minorities, burning alive dozens of unarmed protestors in Odessa, killing 11,000 Donbass civilians, with president Poroshenko boasting about bombing their population into submission and Donbass children cowering in their basements.
The ultimate goal in setting up the Maidan government is to use Ukraine to destabilize Russia, achieve regime change and break up that country, a goal pursued since the late 1990s by difference US administrations. The Russians aren't just going to lay down and relive the 1990s, when their wealth was stolen and their country economically and socially broken.
We don't believe your numbers.Cal88 said:Haloski said:Cal88 said:Unit2Sucks said:
For all of the doomers worried about the spend in Ukraine, the ROI is tremendous and we haven't had to risk a single US soldier to gain it.
Does your ROI calculation include the 300,000 Ukrainian dead soldiers?
Did Putin's calculations include the deaths of that many people? If not, why so incompetent? If so, why so cool with all that death?
I'm not "cool with the death" of that many Ukrainians, that was the whole point of my question above to U2S, who was saying that the Ukraine operation was an awesome campaign because American soldiers are not dying.
The Russians have had somewhere between 40,000 and 70,000 deaths, around 5 to 7 times fewer KIAs than Ukraine, according to Macgregor and other military analysts who aren't in bed with the MIC. The Russians' goal is to exhaust the Ukrainian military in a limited engagement using their huge advantages in military hardware/ammunition, standoff weapons and aviation.
We could well end up with another 300,000 dead a year from now, which wouldn't be cool. All for nothing, because the outcome will still be a negotiated settlement with Russia, the only difference will be the body count reached before that settlement, and the fact that Ukraine will be in a weaker still position.
sycasey said:We don't believe your numbers.Cal88 said:Haloski said:Cal88 said:Unit2Sucks said:
For all of the doomers worried about the spend in Ukraine, the ROI is tremendous and we haven't had to risk a single US soldier to gain it.
Does your ROI calculation include the 300,000 Ukrainian dead soldiers?
Did Putin's calculations include the deaths of that many people? If not, why so incompetent? If so, why so cool with all that death?
I'm not "cool with the death" of that many Ukrainians, that was the whole point of my question above to U2S, who was saying that the Ukraine operation was an awesome campaign because American soldiers are not dying.
The Russians have had somewhere between 40,000 and 70,000 deaths, around 5 to 7 times fewer KIAs than Ukraine, according to Macgregor and other military analysts who aren't in bed with the MIC. The Russians' goal is to exhaust the Ukrainian military in a limited engagement using their huge advantages in military hardware/ammunition, standoff weapons and aviation.
We could well end up with another 300,000 dead a year from now, which wouldn't be cool. All for nothing, because the outcome will still be a negotiated settlement with Russia, the only difference will be the body count reached before that settlement, and the fact that Ukraine will be in a weaker still position.
Do you believe the official Ukrainian numbers of their KIAs, 17,500? That would have been a low estimate for the month of April.
Do you believe Ursula von der Leyen, head of the EU and former German Minister of Defense, who stated 6 months ago, before the bloodiest phase of this war in Bakhmut, that over 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed?!
Cal88 said:sycasey said:We don't believe your numbers.Cal88 said:Haloski said:Cal88 said:Unit2Sucks said:
For all of the doomers worried about the spend in Ukraine, the ROI is tremendous and we haven't had to risk a single US soldier to gain it.
Does your ROI calculation include the 300,000 Ukrainian dead soldiers?
Did Putin's calculations include the deaths of that many people? If not, why so incompetent? If so, why so cool with all that death?
I'm not "cool with the death" of that many Ukrainians, that was the whole point of my question above to U2S, who was saying that the Ukraine operation was an awesome campaign because American soldiers are not dying.
The Russians have had somewhere between 40,000 and 70,000 deaths, around 5 to 7 times fewer KIAs than Ukraine, according to Macgregor and other military analysts who aren't in bed with the MIC. The Russians' goal is to exhaust the Ukrainian military in a limited engagement using their huge advantages in military hardware/ammunition, standoff weapons and aviation.
We could well end up with another 300,000 dead a year from now, which wouldn't be cool. All for nothing, because the outcome will still be a negotiated settlement with Russia, the only difference will be the body count reached before that settlement, and the fact that Ukraine will be in a weaker still position.
Do you believe the official Ukrainian numbers of their KIAs, 17,500? That would have been a low estimate for the month of April.
I don't believe Ukraine's KIA are really that much higher than Russia's. If that were true then Russia would have already won. It's bulls**t.
Cal88 said:Haloski said:Cal88 said:Unit2Sucks said:
For all of the doomers worried about the spend in Ukraine, the ROI is tremendous and we haven't had to risk a single US soldier to gain it.
Does your ROI calculation include the 300,000 Ukrainian dead soldiers?
Did Putin's calculations include the deaths of that many people? If not, why so incompetent? If so, why so cool with all that death?
I'm not "cool with the death" of that many Ukrainians, that was the whole point of my question above to U2S, who was saying that the Ukraine operation was an awesome campaign because American soldiers are not dying.
The Russians have had somewhere between 40,000 and 70,000 deaths, around 5 to 7 times fewer KIAs than Ukraine, according to Macgregor and other military analysts who aren't in bed with the MIC. The Russians' goal is to exhaust the Ukrainian military in a limited engagement using their huge advantages in military hardware/ammunition, standoff weapons and aviation.
We could well end up with another 300,000 dead a year from now, which wouldn't be cool. All for nothing, because the outcome will still be a negotiated settlement with Russia, the only difference will be the body count reached before that settlement, and the fact that Ukraine will be in a weaker still position.
I wasn't talking about you being cool with it, but I see how you could have taken it that way. I was talking about ya boy Vladdy. Did Putin's calculations include the deaths of that many people? If not, why's he so incompetent and unable to foresee that? If so, why's he so cool with all that death?
Ultimately, the answer is that he's as bad as any of those ******bags that led us to Afghanistan and Iraq. *****each and every single one of them. For the life of me I can't understand why you seem to defend such a vile human being.
tequila4kapp said:So what? As a free and independent nation they have the right to chose their alliances and modes of defense. Did Ukraine use that military aid to invade Russia or defend itself from invasion? I know, I know, Russia had no choice, it was backed into a corner by the existential threat posed by Ukraine.Cal88 said:DiabloWags said:golden sloth said:movielover said:Good luck with that.dimitrig said:smh said:
> How does this war ever end?
Putin "retires"
The same way Vietnam ended. Ukraine keeps fighting Russia as long it takes for them to pack up and go home.
NATO in Ukraine is an existential threat to Russia; Vietnam was no such threat to America, along with being 9,000 miles away.
Meanwhile, Zelensky continues his CYA world tour after an attack on the Kremlin. Now in the UK.
Ukraine was never joining NATO.
You must pardon Movielover.
His command of facts and basic reading comprehension is quite poor.
I'm not sure why you're arguing about this basic fact, or trying to use it to discredit ML for stating that NATO is expanding to Ukraine, Ukraine has been a de facto NATO member, receiving huge military and financial support from NATO countries, and on its way to becoming a de jure NATO member.
Here is a pretty good 5 minute retort to the russian propaganda machines.
It looks like Bakhmut has finally fallen, 10 months after Russian propagandists first started pretending it had fallen.
This is a pivotal moment in the war because Ukraine is about to start its counter-offensive, Wagner is clearing out of Bakhmut and Russia is going to need to decide how many forces it maintains in Bakhmut vs fighting the offensive.
It also looks more and more like China isn't going to help Russia and with Russia's depleted economy and industrial capacity, they simply won't have enough to occupy Ukraine indefinitely. Philips Obrien talks about it here, although his article is mostly about how the impending delivery of F-16s will finally allow Ukraine to win the war.
Finally, Timothy Snyder, who is a phenomenal scholar and expert on Russia/Ukraine, writes about Putin's threats and how we should really be considering them.
This is a pivotal moment in the war because Ukraine is about to start its counter-offensive, Wagner is clearing out of Bakhmut and Russia is going to need to decide how many forces it maintains in Bakhmut vs fighting the offensive.
vain move, but one the Ukrainians exploited. They bleed the russians out.
— Thomas C. Theiner (@noclador) May 19, 2023
Now the russians control almost all of Bakhmut... and are bled dry. And now Ukraine has begun to attack the thinly manned russian flanks around Bakhmut. If Ukraine drives the russian off these flanks,
4/n
It also looks more and more like China isn't going to help Russia and with Russia's depleted economy and industrial capacity, they simply won't have enough to occupy Ukraine indefinitely. Philips Obrien talks about it here, although his article is mostly about how the impending delivery of F-16s will finally allow Ukraine to win the war.
Quote:
Russia was and is too weak to have ever conquered even half of Ukraine, let alone achieve the kind of maximalist goals that Putin possessed, and we see now that the Russian economy cannot even produce the kinds of weaponry needed to hold on to 18% of the country. It was why I thought if Putin had any idea of the situation he was in, he would have tried to back out back at the start.
Several things here:
— Nathan Carson (@ndcarson) May 19, 2023
1) China needs a capital account surplus to provide liquidity to its strained financial sector.
2) China's trade surplus is at record levels.
3) This means that the internal fiscal situation is far worse than CCP is letting on. https://t.co/5PUKJAmOUg
Finally, Timothy Snyder, who is a phenomenal scholar and expert on Russia/Ukraine, writes about Putin's threats and how we should really be considering them.
"Russia issues an unending stream of nuclear threats. In the West today... these are discussed in psychological rather than strategic terms... When Russians talk about nuclear war, the safest response is to ensure their very conventional defeat."https://t.co/cdrPyPmtvg
— Timothy Snyder (@TimothyDSnyder) May 20, 2023
Unit2Sucks said:
It looks like Bakhmut has finally fallen, 10 months after Russian propagandists first started pretending it had fallen.
This is a pivotal moment in the war because Ukraine is about to start its counter-offensive, Wagner is clearing out of Bakhmut and Russia is going to need to decide how many forces it maintains in Bakhmut vs fighting the offensive.vain move, but one the Ukrainians exploited. They bleed the russians out.
— Thomas C. Theiner (@noclador) May 19, 2023
Now the russians control almost all of Bakhmut... and are bled dry. And now Ukraine has begun to attack the thinly manned russian flanks around Bakhmut. If Ukraine drives the russian off these flanks,
4/n
It also looks more and more like China isn't going to help Russia and with Russia's depleted economy and industrial capacity, they simply won't have enough to occupy Ukraine indefinitely. Philips Obrien talks about it here, although his article is mostly about how the impending delivery of F-16s will finally allow Ukraine to win the war.Quote:
Russia was and is too weak to have ever conquered even half of Ukraine, let alone achieve the kind of maximalist goals that Putin possessed, and we see now that the Russian economy cannot even produce the kinds of weaponry needed to hold on to 18% of the country. It was why I thought if Putin had any idea of the situation he was in, he would have tried to back out back at the start.Several things here:
— Nathan Carson (@ndcarson) May 19, 2023
1) China needs a capital account surplus to provide liquidity to its strained financial sector.
2) China's trade surplus is at record levels.
3) This means that the internal fiscal situation is far worse than CCP is letting on. https://t.co/5PUKJAmOUg
Finally, Timothy Snyder, who is a phenomenal scholar and expert on Russia/Ukraine, writes about Putin's threats and how we should really be considering them."Russia issues an unending stream of nuclear threats. In the West today... these are discussed in psychological rather than strategic terms... When Russians talk about nuclear war, the safest response is to ensure their very conventional defeat."https://t.co/cdrPyPmtvg
— Timothy Snyder (@TimothyDSnyder) May 20, 2023
So, Wagner didn't pull out of Bakhmut like the useful idiots spouting firehoses of falsehoods said? Looks like Cal88 wins the bet. This is very interesting. Not surprising that useful idiots with NATO propaganda are spinning this as a Ukraine success story.
The Reagan Lesson for the Trumpian Right on Ukraine and China
A weekend interview with William Inboden.
For the Movielovers of the World.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/theres-a-lot-we-can-learn-from-reagan-inboden-foreign-policy-ukraine-china-soviets-506f0bf8
A weekend interview with William Inboden.
For the Movielovers of the World.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/theres-a-lot-we-can-learn-from-reagan-inboden-foreign-policy-ukraine-china-soviets-506f0bf8
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:
It looks like Bakhmut has finally fallen, 10 months after Russian propagandists first started pretending it had fallen.
This is a pivotal moment in the war because Ukraine is about to start its counter-offensive, Wagner is clearing out of Bakhmut and Russia is going to need to decide how many forces it maintains in Bakhmut vs fighting the offensive.vain move, but one the Ukrainians exploited. They bleed the russians out.
— Thomas C. Theiner (@noclador) May 19, 2023
Now the russians control almost all of Bakhmut... and are bled dry. And now Ukraine has begun to attack the thinly manned russian flanks around Bakhmut. If Ukraine drives the russian off these flanks,
4/n
It also looks more and more like China isn't going to help Russia and with Russia's depleted economy and industrial capacity, they simply won't have enough to occupy Ukraine indefinitely. Philips Obrien talks about it here, although his article is mostly about how the impending delivery of F-16s will finally allow Ukraine to win the war.Quote:
Russia was and is too weak to have ever conquered even half of Ukraine, let alone achieve the kind of maximalist goals that Putin possessed, and we see now that the Russian economy cannot even produce the kinds of weaponry needed to hold on to 18% of the country. It was why I thought if Putin had any idea of the situation he was in, he would have tried to back out back at the start.Several things here:
— Nathan Carson (@ndcarson) May 19, 2023
1) China needs a capital account surplus to provide liquidity to its strained financial sector.
2) China's trade surplus is at record levels.
3) This means that the internal fiscal situation is far worse than CCP is letting on. https://t.co/5PUKJAmOUg
Finally, Timothy Snyder, who is a phenomenal scholar and expert on Russia/Ukraine, writes about Putin's threats and how we should really be considering them."Russia issues an unending stream of nuclear threats. In the West today... these are discussed in psychological rather than strategic terms... When Russians talk about nuclear war, the safest response is to ensure their very conventional defeat."https://t.co/cdrPyPmtvg
— Timothy Snyder (@TimothyDSnyder) May 20, 2023
So, Wagner didn't pull out of Bakhmut like the useful idiots spouting firehoses of falsehoods said? Looks like Cal88 wins the bet. This is very interesting. Not surprising that useful idiots with NATO propaganda are spinning this as a Ukraine success story.
They threatened to pull out. Whether they did or not is not clear. Don't confuse Wagner with Russia. It is perfectly possible for Russian troops to take over positions formerly manned by Wagner.
The Reagan Lesson for the Trumpian Right on Ukraine and China
A weekend interview with William Inboden.
For the Movielovers of the World.
Who have no clue about how great the foreign policy of Ronald Reagan was. Perhaps he wasnt born yet.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/theres-a-lot-we-can-learn-from-reagan-inboden-foreign-policy-ukraine-china-soviets-506f0bf8?st=53clexz94znm77p&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
A weekend interview with William Inboden.
For the Movielovers of the World.
Who have no clue about how great the foreign policy of Ronald Reagan was. Perhaps he wasnt born yet.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/theres-a-lot-we-can-learn-from-reagan-inboden-foreign-policy-ukraine-china-soviets-506f0bf8?st=53clexz94znm77p&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
Unit2Sucks said:
It looks like Bakhmut has finally fallen, 10 months after Russian propagandists first started pretending it had fallen.
This is a pivotal moment in the war because Ukraine is about to start its counter-offensive, Wagner is clearing out of Bakhmut and Russia is going to need to decide how many forces it maintains in Bakhmut vs fighting the offensive.vain move, but one the Ukrainians exploited. They bleed the russians out.
— Thomas C. Theiner (@noclador) May 19, 2023
Now the russians control almost all of Bakhmut... and are bled dry. And now Ukraine has begun to attack the thinly manned russian flanks around Bakhmut. If Ukraine drives the russian off these flanks,
4/n
It also looks more and more like China isn't going to help Russia and with Russia's depleted economy and industrial capacity, they simply won't have enough to occupy Ukraine indefinitely. Philips Obrien talks about it here, although his article is mostly about how the impending delivery of F-16s will finally allow Ukraine to win the war.Quote:
Russia was and is too weak to have ever conquered even half of Ukraine, let alone achieve the kind of maximalist goals that Putin possessed, and we see now that the Russian economy cannot even produce the kinds of weaponry needed to hold on to 18% of the country. It was why I thought if Putin had any idea of the situation he was in, he would have tried to back out back at the start.Several things here:
— Nathan Carson (@ndcarson) May 19, 2023
1) China needs a capital account surplus to provide liquidity to its strained financial sector.
2) China's trade surplus is at record levels.
3) This means that the internal fiscal situation is far worse than CCP is letting on. https://t.co/5PUKJAmOUg
Finally, Timothy Snyder, who is a phenomenal scholar and expert on Russia/Ukraine, writes about Putin's threats and how we should really be considering them."Russia issues an unending stream of nuclear threats. In the West today... these are discussed in psychological rather than strategic terms... When Russians talk about nuclear war, the safest response is to ensure their very conventional defeat."https://t.co/cdrPyPmtvg
— Timothy Snyder (@TimothyDSnyder) May 20, 2023
If those loans from China were from the U.S., Putin88 would be posting endless hate-filled screeds about it.
Help! I'm winning! - Ukraine
3 cheers for Russia! Only 10 months to capture a city that has been virtually demolished and which has very little, if any, strategic value.
3 cheers for Ukraine for defending a city that has been virtually demolished and which has very little, if any, strategic value?
oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:
It looks like Bakhmut has finally fallen, 10 months after Russian propagandists first started pretending it had fallen.
This is a pivotal moment in the war because Ukraine is about to start its counter-offensive, Wagner is clearing out of Bakhmut and Russia is going to need to decide how many forces it maintains in Bakhmut vs fighting the offensive.
It also looks more and more like China isn't going to help Russia and with Russia's depleted economy and industrial capacity, they simply won't have enough to occupy Ukraine indefinitely. Philips Obrien talks about it here, although his article is mostly about how the impending delivery of F-16s will finally allow Ukraine to win the war.Quote:
Russia was and is too weak to have ever conquered even half of Ukraine, let alone achieve the kind of maximalist goals that Putin possessed, and we see now that the Russian economy cannot even produce the kinds of weaponry needed to hold on to 18% of the country. It was why I thought if Putin had any idea of the situation he was in, he would have tried to back out back at the start.
Finally, Timothy Snyder, who is a phenomenal scholar and expert on Russia/Ukraine, writes about Putin's threats and how we should really be considering them.
So, Wagner didn't pull out of Bakhmut like the useful idiots spouting firehoses of falsehoods said? Looks like Cal88 wins the bet. This is very interesting. Not surprising that useful idiots with NATO propaganda are spinning this as a Ukraine success story.
I've been right about this war all along.
Evidence of the huge disparity in casualties in favor of Russia will also start to emerge and become more difficult to refute.
As to the Battle of Bakhmut, the Russians established a vise around the city last December, surrounding the city on 3 sides, and from then on were in a very dominant position that allowed them to exploit their superiority in artillery, bombing supplies and reinforcements coming in and out on the main access roads which were under their heavy fire control. These roads were dubbed the roads of death. In the last couple of months, the main roads were practically blocked by the Russians, forcing the Ukrainians to move in and out slower through muddy dirt roads.
The Russians also had leveraged their firepower edge into a significant advantage in the urban battle as well, blasting away buildings one by one and moving into the ruins to mop up, in the same manner the US cleared Fallujah or Mosul.
As well, the Ukrainians threw into the Bakhmut firepit tens of thousands of untrained conscripts against the hardened, well-equipped and well-organized Wagner troops. Things got so bad that many sources including western ones were openly stating that the life expectancy of a Ukrainian conscript in the Bakhmut "meat-grinder" was 4 hours:
https://www.newsweek.com/bakhmut-life-expectancy-near-four-hours-frontlines-ukraine-russia-1782496
Bakhmut became a huge battleground, the largest battle of this century, in good part because it became an important symbol, which the Ukrainian leadership felt they could not afford to relinquish for PR/political reasons, trying desperately to hold on to, despite very heavy casualties due to the above. In that sense they played into Russia's hands.
Furthermore, their heavy investment into the Batlle of Bakhmut set back their plans for a Spring offensive, though the prospects for such an operation are somewhat constricted by the facts that the Russians are heavily dug into defensive positions, and the Ukrainians have limited air defense capabilities, the Russians hunting down with a high priority any AA launchers that venture close to the front.
Cal88 wrote: "Other significant developments: there has been a noticeable increase in background radiation in western Ukraine after the Russians bombed a huge ammunition depot in Khmelnytskyi that likely included uranium shells meant for British Challenger tanks:"
FAFO; sounds like Russians gave them their comeuppance.
FAFO; sounds like Russians gave them their comeuppance.
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