The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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concordtom
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In reply to bearister • 9:52p, 6/23/23
Yeah, just read this.
Who is who?
Who and what are we rooting for here?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraines-president-tells-other-countries-135557851.html
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dimitrig
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In reply to bearister • 10:38p, 6/23/23
bearister said:
Wagner mercenaries storm Rostov-on-Don as Kremlin warns of CIVIL WAR
https://mol.im/a/12228381


All going according to plan.




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sycasey
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In reply to dimitrig • 12:01a, 6/24/23
dimitrig said:
bearister said:
Wagner mercenaries storm Rostov-on-Don as Kremlin warns of CIVIL WAR
https://mol.im/a/12228381


All going according to plan.





Surely this is a CIA false flag operation. Maybe the Greyzone can tell us the truth.
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concordtom
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12:55a, 6/24/23






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chazzed
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In reply to dimitrig • 2:01a, 6/24/23
dimitrig said:
bearister said:
Wagner mercenaries storm Rostov-on-Don as Kremlin warns of CIVIL WAR
https://mol.im/a/12228381


All going according to plan.




Nice one. It should be fun watching Cal88, movielover, and BearFarce go into overdrive to spin this development. A couple of things...
1) After more than a year of immediately sharing in this thread any and all Russian propaganda, one of these posters has cautioned others not to jump to conclusions. Or, as the poster put it: "A lot of conflicting and confusing info right now, I guess we'll find out soon enough what is really going on."
2) Can you imagine how long and elaborate Cal88's replies in this thread will have to become to give cover for Russia now? I mean, the amount of elaborate text and the number of charts, graphs, and maps will be mind-boggling.

Of course, these Russian disinformation agents might largely stay away for a while. Or their heads may explode once the money stops coming in from Russia.

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Cal88
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3:55a, 6/24/23
^ Prigozhin's mutiny is a nice surprise and boost for the Russiagaters, wild fantasies about roubles flowing west are back in style, it's like it's 2017 again. The main graph that comes to mind here is the y=x FAFO graph, in relation to Prigozhin's rogue move.

Prigozhin has crossed the Rubicon, his days (hours?) as a military leader are numbered. He let his gigantic ego and wild temperament run wild, this is a boneheaded move by him. Historically speaking, it's quite similar to the military coup against Charles de Gaulle in 1960 France, or the rebellion of Gen. MacArthur against Truman, or more recently, the 2016 military coup against Erdogan in Turkey. although no shots are being fired (so far) in Russia, perhaps to the dismay of Russia haters. it's only been a show of force in Rostov by Wagner.

The result is going to be the same, Russians, both the people and army, are going to rally around their flag and leadership. The question is whether Wagner will go on under a new leader, or if it's going to be dissolved altogether.





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MinotStateBeav
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4:01a, 6/24/23
Sorry, the dems dream trope that republicans love Russia and are the lap dogs has to be one of the dumbest things ever written. Lindsay Graham literally loves war. Just like dems. This is the worst development for that. The people they are beholden too are going to lose a massive amount of income. Hard to replace a Bradley if they aren't getting destroyed. Now they might have to replace the war with the reconstruction cost of Ukraine shortly with about 15 other nations. Oh wait I mean It's fantastic that Ukraine is going to win the war!!!!!
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dajo9
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In reply to Cal88 • 6:08a, 6/24/23
Cal88 said:
^ Prigozhin's mutiny is a nice surprise and boost for the Russiagaters, wild fantasies about roubles flowing west are back in style, it's like it's 2017 again. The main graph that comes to mind here is the y=x FAFO graph, in relation to Prigozhin's rogue move.

Prigozhin has crossed the Rubicon, his days (hours?) as a military leader are numbered. He let his gigantic ego and wild temperament run wild, this is a boneheaded move by him. Historically speaking, it's quite similar to the military coup against Charles de Gaulle in 1960 France, or the rebellion of Gen. MacArthur against Truman, or more recently, the 2016 military coup against Erdogan in Turkey. although no shots are being fired (so far) in Russia, perhaps to the dismay of Russia haters. it's only been a show of force in Rostov by Wagner.

The result is going to be the same, Russians, both the people and army, are going to rally around their flag and leadership. The question is whether Wagner will go on under a new leader, or if it's going to be dissolved altogether.







So another win-win for the West. Just as Putin's war in Ukraine has already been lost by him because after the failures of 2022 he'll never be able to project the image he was trying to project of Putin's Russia.

Now, Wagner as it once existed as a credible fighting force, for Russia but not of Russia, will also cease to exist as it once did. Definitely a great development for Putin haters.
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concordtom
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In reply to dajo9 • 6:12a, 6/24/23
It won't be a win-win when Russia breaks up again and all its nuclear assets scatter.
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blungld
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In reply to Cal88 • 6:18a, 6/24/23
Yeah. Thanks. You KNOW what's really going on. Don't exercise any humility or qualify your speculation because you have total access to the truth and haven't been wrong about anything.
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blungld
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6:25a, 6/24/23
Cal88 started off as alleging to be neutral voice of reason just so so concerned with loss of life. Bless his soul. Now just straight unequivocally rooting for Putin and siding with authoritarian war machine without hesitation. What a warm hearted human being.
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concordtom
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In reply to MinotStateBeav • 6:28a, 6/24/23
MinotStateBeav said:
Sorry, the dems dream trope that republicans love Russia and are the lap dogs has to be one of the dumbest things ever written. Lindsay Graham literally loves war. Just like dems. This is the worst development for that. The people they are beholden too are going to lose a massive amount of income. Hard to replace a Bradley if they aren't getting destroyed. Now they might have to replace the war with the reconstruction cost of Ukraine shortly with about 15 other nations. Oh wait I mean It's fantastic that Ukraine is going to win the war!!!!!

Uh, I think I see what you're trying to say but that's also warped.

Here should be the objectives for both parties, for all American:

1: allow nations the right to self-rule. Outside groups should not be invading others. And, for the most part, no it's not America's job to be the world's police office. But that concept can be hard to rationalize either way. I mean, sometimes humans simply do awful things, like loading 6M Jews into ovens. Defeating such a regime and setting the stage for the longest peace Europe has ever known has been the US's proudest moment. (Too bad the Rwandans got no favor.)

2: secure the existential-for-planet-earth nuclear arsenal in Russia. If it's held by a power, Soviets/Yeltsin/Putin, that can be stable and dealt with, fine. If it gets into regional control, then items and technology can be sold off to thugs like OBL. Surprise attacks that make no sense other than to kill us in religiously motivated fervor may ensue. It's a dangerous soup.

3: ensure our own economic prosperity.

Is your post just cynical snark and not much more?
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concordtom
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In reply to Cal88 • 6:35a, 6/24/23
Cal88 said:
^ Prigozhin's mutiny is a nice surprise and boost for the Russiagaters, wild fantasies about roubles flowing west are back in style, it's like it's 2017 again.


As I just posted above, this viewpoint is incredibly myopic to the much larger issue.

Let's lift our heads up above the horizon.

R vs D issues don't matter here when we're talking about potential civil war inside Russia.
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bearister
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6:58a, 6/24/23
Wagner uprising: Putin accuses Prigozhin of treason and vows to squash rebellion


https://www.axios.com/2023/06/24/wagner-uprising-prigozhin-putin-treason-rebellion-rostov

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dajo9
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7:00a, 6/24/23
Only a propagandist would say the idea of rubles flowing west is a fantasy. Rubles flowing West is nobody's fantasy.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/05/16/londongrad-how-russias-war-exposed-the-dark-side-of-luxury-london.html

https://www.gmfus.org/news/tracking-illicit-russian-financial-flows

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/how-russian-money-helped-save-trumps-business/
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sycasey
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7:10a, 6/24/23
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bearister
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7:20a, 6/24/23





https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thevintagenews.com/2016/01/01/43661/amp/
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
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oski003
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In reply to sycasey • 7:20a, 6/24/23
sycasey said:


This is dumb.
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Haloski
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8:20a, 6/24/23
WHO COULD HAVE SEEN THIS COMING?

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Haloski
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In reply to blungld • 8:24a, 6/24/23
blungld said:
Cal88 started off as alleging to be neutral voice of reason just so so concerned with loss of life. Bless his soul. Now just straight unequivocally rooting for Putin and siding with authoritarian war machine without hesitation. What a warm hearted human being.


How many hours and/or words do you think Cal88 has put into defending/supporting Putin on this subforum of a relatively low traffic college football discussion board?

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Cal88
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In reply to concordtom • 8:43a, 6/24/23
concordtom said:
MinotStateBeav said:
Sorry, the dems dream trope that republicans love Russia and are the lap dogs has to be one of the dumbest things ever written. Lindsay Graham literally loves war. Just like dems. This is the worst development for that. The people they are beholden too are going to lose a massive amount of income. Hard to replace a Bradley if they aren't getting destroyed. Now they might have to replace the war with the reconstruction cost of Ukraine shortly with about 15 other nations. Oh wait I mean It's fantastic that Ukraine is going to win the war!!!!!

Uh, I think I see what you're trying to say but that's also warped.

Here should be the objectives for both parties, for all American:

1: allow nations the right to self-rule. Outside groups should not be invading others. And, for the most part, no it's not America's job to be the world's police office. But that concept can be hard to rationalize either way. I mean, sometimes humans simply do awful things, like loading 6M Jews into ovens. Defeating such a regime and setting the stage for the longest peace Europe has ever known has been the US's proudest moment. (Too bad the Rwandans got no favor.)

2: secure the existential-for-planet-earth nuclear arsenal in Russia. If it's held by a power, Soviets/Yeltsin/Putin, that can be stable and dealt with, fine. If it gets into regional control, then items and technology can be sold off to thugs like OBL. Surprise attacks that make no sense other than to kill us in religiously motivated fervor may ensue. It's a dangerous soup.

3: ensure our own economic prosperity.

Is your post just cynical snark and not much more?

Good post, I agree on most points. Where we differ is, on point #1, our understanding of world events and geopolitics. The narrative sold to the general public is not the same as that analyzed by the likes of Mearsheimer, Brzezinski or J. Sachs.

Absolutely right on points 2 and 3, you wouldn't want someone as unstable as Prigozhin or some of his followers with nukes, or chaos in a country with 3,500 nuclear warheads...
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Cal88
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In reply to dajo9 • 8:54a, 6/24/23
dajo9 said:
Only a propagandist would say the idea of rubles flowing west is a fantasy. Rubles flowing West is nobody's fantasy.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/05/16/londongrad-how-russias-war-exposed-the-dark-side-of-luxury-london.html

https://www.gmfus.org/news/tracking-illicit-russian-financial-flows

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/how-russian-money-helped-save-trumps-business/

Nobody said that Russian oligarchs didn't buy Premier League clubs or luxury condos in Manhattan, it is the allegation that Russian bots and Russian funding have enabled Trump's election, which is a ridiculous notion.
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Cal88
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In reply to blungld • 9:05a, 6/24/23
blungld said:
Cal88 started off as alleging to be neutral voice of reason just so so concerned with loss of life. Bless his soul. Now just straight unequivocally rooting for Putin and siding with authoritarian war machine without hesitation. What a warm hearted human being.

You'd have to be really naive to believe that the Victoria Nuland/Lindsay Graham "to the last Ukrainian" policy is actually high-minded, but that's where you are.

Their policy, and that of the US pretty much since the 1950s with operation Aerodynamic which recycled Ukrainian nazis, maintained and rebuilt the worst white supremacist nationalist movement seen in postwar Europe in order to weaponize Ukraine against Russia, has led to this war, with the rejection of the Minsk Agreements being the last step.
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Haloski
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9:09a, 6/24/23
Any updates from Colonel MacGruber on how quickly he feels the Wagner group will decimate its foes (whoever they may be today)?
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Unit2Sucks
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9:35a, 6/24/23
This whole situation is just more proof positive why Russian shills should be ignored. They have dismissed the growing rift between corrupt oligarch Prigozhin and the corrupt state kleptocracy.

Prigozhin didn't just rise up against the Kremlin, he blew the whistle on the corrupt motivations for the stupid unprovoked war. That's what the shills are desperately trying to avoid.





Good thread below.


On the importance of logistics, read this thread.


More on the civil war / insurrection.



And just lol for this.


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DiabloWags
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In reply to Haloski • 9:36a, 6/24/23
Haloski said:
blungld said:
Cal88 started off as alleging to be neutral voice of reason just so so concerned with loss of life. Bless his soul. Now just straight unequivocally rooting for Putin and siding with authoritarian war machine without hesitation. What a warm hearted human being.


How many hours and/or words do you think Cal88 has put into defending/supporting Putin on this subforum of a relatively low traffic college football discussion board?



I put the over/under at 1200 hours.

Close to the anti-vax effort by Oski on the Covid thread. But it's still early, Cal88 could make history!
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sycasey
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9:37a, 6/24/23
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movielover
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10:27a, 6/24/23
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movielover
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10:29a, 6/24/23
True???

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DiabloWags
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In reply to movielover • 10:39a, 6/24/23
?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/wagner-head-suggests-his-mercenaries-headed-moscow-take-army-leadership-2023-06-24/
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movielover
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10:42a, 6/24/23
??

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movielover
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10:47a, 6/24/23
??

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movielover
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10:56a, 6/24/23
CNN: Wagner standing down after claims of deal brokered

Prigozhin says his forces "are turning our columns around," amid claims of deal brokered by Lukashenko

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-06-24-23/index.html

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DiabloWags
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10:57a, 6/24/23
Belarus involved.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-06-24-23/index.html
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BearHunter
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11:12a, 6/24/23
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