The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

939,129 Views | 10272 Replies | Last: 2 days ago by Cal88
Zippergate
How long do you want to ignore this user?

Regardelss of Russia's low grade wartime propaganda, there is a lot happening right now across the fronts and both sides are making moves. Ukraine believes it's positioning itself to make bigger gains in this offensive, and Russia continues to make false claims about just about every facet of the war so it's impossible to take anything they say seriously.

Ukraine has zero chance of expelling the Russians and there is no scenario under which the Russians leave on their own; this is not even debatable at this point. The neocons have changed the narrative; now it's all about degrading Russian capabilities. At little behind are we?
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Zippergate said:


Regardelss of Russia's low grade wartime propaganda, there is a lot happening right now across the fronts and both sides are making moves. Ukraine believes it's positioning itself to make bigger gains in this offensive, and Russia continues to make false claims about just about every facet of the war so it's impossible to take anything they say seriously.

Ukraine has zero chance of expelling the Russians and there is no scenario under which the Russians leave on their own; this is not even debatable at this point. The neocons have changed the narrative; now it's all about degrading Russian capabilities. At little behind are we?

U2S is a true believer, ideologically tethered to his narrative of Russians as a backwards, inept, cruel and vile populace that are certain to lose this war against their virtuous opponents. It only takes a couple of stories about some angry/hungry trench Russkies to validate and reinforce his manifest destiny narrative.

As I've mentioned though, the cracks are starting to appear in the narrative, as the gap between NATO propaganda and the reality on the ground became almost unsustainably wide. Unfortunately it will be several more months at the earliest until real efforts are made to push for a realistic settlement.

bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The concern for casualties and peace sounds so altruistic. Isn't the real message that Ukrainians, unlike the French during WWII, are crazy to Custer's Last Stand this Russian Invasion thing.



*Glenn Eric Andre Diesen (born 1979) is a Norwegian political scientist[1] who is known as a regular commentator on Russia Today (RT). Scandinavian media and Western academics have criticized him for promoting Russian propaganda. From 10% Zipper's favorite CIA controlled source
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:

The concern for casualties and peace sounds so altruistic. Isn't the real message that Ukrainians, unlike the French during WWII, are crazy to Custer's Last Stand this Russian Invasion thing.



*Glenn Eric Andre Diesen (born 1979) is a Norwegian political scientist[1] who is known as a regular commentator on Russia Today (RT). Scandinavian media and Western academics have criticized him for promoting Russian propaganda. From 10% Zipper's favorite CIA controlled source

The article Diesen cites though is from Foreign Policy, about as NATO-aligned a magazine as they come, affiliated with the Atlantic Council IIRC:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/08/18/arm-ukraine-counteroffensive-russia-zelensky-peace/

Quote:

Arming Ukraine or Push for Peace?
A slow counteroffensive hasn't led to major breakthroughsprompting calls for negotiation rather than escalation.

By Emma Ashford, a columnist at Foreign Policy and a senior fellow with the Reimagining U.S. Grand Strategy program at the Stimson Center, and Matthew Kroenig, a columnist at Foreign Policy and vice president and senior director of the Atlantic Council's Scowcroft Center for Strategy and Security.

France lost "only" 300k dead in WW2, but the fact that it had 1.4M dead and 4.2M wounded only two decades before in WW1 had a lot to do with how WW2 went. Imagine if the US had lost 12M dead and 36M wounded in a war.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Tucker claims US HATES Russia because 'it's Christian country'



https://mol.im/a/12453645

* He may be right. I often ask myself after Putin does something, "What would Jesus do?"
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
BearHunter
How long do you want to ignore this user?


Given an intensifying conflict between nuclear superpowers, shouldn't the public have access to all perspectives to better understand the situation?

Shouldn't Western democracies allow citizens to form their own judgments from the available information?

Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I wish Tucker would have had the opportunity to interview Gadaffi, Hussein and Bin Laden for the same reason. Their perspective, as spoken by them, would have been meaningful to me and may have swayed me to their way of thinking….like Tucker hopes the Putin interview accomplishes.

*I love the fact that working class people think that guys like Tucker and tRump, who would have been in frats at Cal (had they paid someone to take the SAT) packed with Piedmont boys, have their backs, when in reality, they have had nothing but contempt for Blue collar types their entire privileged lives (tRump always stiffed them for contractor work) and simply use them to get rich pandering to their stupidity, racism, religion, and love for guns. If that guy with the new hillbilly hit song knew the real tRump, he would break his guitar over the Fat Man's f@ucking head like Belushi in Animal house.

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
golden sloth
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearHunter said:



Given an intensifying conflict between nuclear superpowers, shouldn't the public have access to all perspectives to better understand the situation?

Shouldn't Western democracies allow citizens to form their own judgments from the available information?




Shouldn't the Russian people have some sort of say when their country goes to war? Oh wait, they are in an autocracy, the will of the people doesn't matter.
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
golden sloth said:

BearHunter said:



Given an intensifying conflict between nuclear superpowers, shouldn't the public have access to all perspectives to better understand the situation?

Shouldn't Western democracies allow citizens to form their own judgments from the available information?




Shouldn't the Russian people have some sort of say when their country goes to war? Oh wait, they are in an autocracy, the will of the people doesn't matter.

Hadn't you heard? Putin won his last election in a landslide.
BearHunter
How long do you want to ignore this user?
golden sloth said:


Shouldn't the Russian people have some sort of say when their country goes to war? Oh wait, they are in an autocracy, the will of the people doesn't matter.

Shouldn't the American people have some sort of say when their country goes to war? Oh wait, we are a republic where the will of the people doesn't matter.
BearHunter
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:


Hadn't you heard? Putin won his last election in a landslide.

Haven't you heard? Biden was so popular, he won his last election with a record number of votes but plans to lock up his opponent for the next one.
Big C
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

golden sloth said:

BearHunter said:



Given an intensifying conflict between nuclear superpowers, shouldn't the public have access to all perspectives to better understand the situation?

Shouldn't Western democracies allow citizens to form their own judgments from the available information?




Shouldn't the Russian people have some sort of say when their country goes to war? Oh wait, they are in an autocracy, the will of the people doesn't matter.

Hadn't you heard? Putin won his last election in a landslide.

Plus, the KGB just took a poll: Russians love their President! They say he's doing a great job and is very manly! In fact, respondents who were polled as they were boarding their plane flight approve of him 100%!!

You can't buy those types of numbers!
calbear93
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Big C said:

sycasey said:

golden sloth said:

BearHunter said:



Given an intensifying conflict between nuclear superpowers, shouldn't the public have access to all perspectives to better understand the situation?

Shouldn't Western democracies allow citizens to form their own judgments from the available information?




Shouldn't the Russian people have some sort of say when their country goes to war? Oh wait, they are in an autocracy, the will of the people doesn't matter.

Hadn't you heard? Putin won his last election in a landslide.

Plus, the KGB just took a poll: Russians love their President! They say he's doing a great job and is very manly! In fact, respondents who were polled as they were boarding their plane flight approve of him 100%!!

You can't buy those types of numbers!
You are dating yourself. KGB became the lot friendlier sounding FSB. They only use the most pleasantly scented radiation poisoning to enhance the experience.
calbear93
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearHunter said:

golden sloth said:


Shouldn't the Russian people have some sort of say when their country goes to war? Oh wait, they are in an autocracy, the will of the people doesn't matter.

Shouldn't the American people have some sort of say when their country goes to war? Oh wait, we are a republic where the will of the people doesn't matter.
Who votes in the legislators in the Republic?
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
More importantly, which special interests sponsor them?
Haloski
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearHunter said:

sycasey said:


Hadn't you heard? Putin won his last election in a landslide.

Haven't you heard? Biden was so popular, he won his last election with a record number of votes but plans to lock up his opponent for the next one.


Hold up:

Trump admires Putin
Biden does Putiny things
Trump thus admires Biden
Trump votes for Biden
You admire Trump
You vote for Biden

All is good!
movielover
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Get this. A long-time social science professor friend in DC doesn't know Ukraine and NATO are low on ammo. He has asked me 3 times to send him proof, I suggested Google (I don't want to play the gotcha game). He claims to be Independent, appears Liberal, hates Trump. He also claims to not know Ukraine is getting slaughtered.

He's suggested I move to Moscow since I "love" Putin (??). I'm just stating basic facts. He religiously reads the NYT and WP. He then wrote, "Nuke em. We have lots."

As if things couldn't be more absurd, I asked him who his military sources are (Colonel McGregor myself, Mearsheimer, and others). He replied, "I know a military lobbyist." !!

(He has one-year Harvard Masters degree.)
Zippergate
How long do you want to ignore this user?
He's suggested I move to Moscow since I "love" Putin (??). I'm just stating basic facts. He religiously reads the NYT and WP. He then wrote, "Nuke em. We have lots."

I see this kind of childish black-and-white thinking all the time.
movielover
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Zippergate said:

He's suggested I move to Moscow since I "love" Putin (??). I'm just stating basic facts. He religiously reads the NYT and WP. He then wrote, "Nuke em. We have lots."

I see this kind of childish black-and-white thinking all the time.


Nuke em??!! Because NATO, Blinken, Sullivan and Nuland made foolish choices?!
dimitrig
How long do you want to ignore this user?
movielover said:

Get this. A long-time social science professor friend in DC doesn't know Ukraine and NATO are low on ammo. He has asked me 3 times to send him proof, I suggested Google (I don't want to play the gotcha game). He claims to be Independent, appears Liberal, hates Trump. He also claims to not know Ukraine is getting slaughtered.

He's suggested I move to Moscow since I "love" Putin (??). I'm just stating basic facts. He religiously reads the NYT and WP. He then wrote, "Nuke em. We have lots."

As if things couldn't be more absurd, I asked him who his military sources are (Colonel McGregor myself, Mearsheimer, and others). He replied, "I know a military lobbyist." !!

(He has one-year Harvard Masters degree.)


Sounds like a smart guy who has you pegged.

movielover
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mother Russia. s/
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
dimitrig said:

movielover said:

Get this. A long-time social science professor friend in DC doesn't know Ukraine and NATO are low on ammo. He has asked me 3 times to send him proof, I suggested Google (I don't want to play the gotcha game). He claims to be Independent, appears Liberal, hates Trump. He also claims to not know Ukraine is getting slaughtered.

He's suggested I move to Moscow since I "love" Putin (??). I'm just stating basic facts. He religiously reads the NYT and WP. He then wrote, "Nuke em. We have lots."

As if things couldn't be more absurd, I asked him who his military sources are (Colonel McGregor myself, Mearsheimer, and others). He replied, "I know a military lobbyist." !!

(He has one-year Harvard Masters degree.)


Sounds like a smart guy who has you pegged.




Why don't you just send him proof and see what he responds with. Given the inundation of Western media, his assumption that NATO is winning is the status quo.
movielover
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I figure searching for "Ukraine war ammunition" would be simple enough.
dimitrig
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

dimitrig said:

movielover said:

Get this. A long-time social science professor friend in DC doesn't know Ukraine and NATO are low on ammo. He has asked me 3 times to send him proof, I suggested Google (I don't want to play the gotcha game). He claims to be Independent, appears Liberal, hates Trump. He also claims to not know Ukraine is getting slaughtered.

He's suggested I move to Moscow since I "love" Putin (??). I'm just stating basic facts. He religiously reads the NYT and WP. He then wrote, "Nuke em. We have lots."

As if things couldn't be more absurd, I asked him who his military sources are (Colonel McGregor myself, Mearsheimer, and others). He replied, "I know a military lobbyist." !!

(He has one-year Harvard Masters degree.)

Sounds like a smart guy who has you pegged.

Why don't you just send him proof and see what he responds with. Given the inundation of Western media, his assumption that NATO is winning is the status quo.

Yep. A lot of links to videos with Colonel McGregor ought-ta convince him.

Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Top few results from "Ukraine out of ammunition" Google search:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/18/politics/ukraine-critical-ammo-shortage-us-nato-grapple/index.html

https://www.rand.org/multimedia/video/2023/05/23/ukraine-is-running-out-of-ammo-the-West-doesnt-have-enough.html


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/04/08/ukraine-ammunition-shortage-shells-ration/

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2023/05/03/commentary/world-commentary/u-s-ukraine-ammo/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/10/were-almost-out-of-ammunition-and-relying-on-western-arms-says-ukraine

Incidentally, I had this same conversation with a former colleague over beer at the local pub. His grandfather was a refugee from Lviv, Galicia/western Ukraine. He was under the impression that Russians have been dying at higher rates in this war and was surprised to hear my counterpoints. I referred him to this article, and to an interview with Swiss colonel Jacques Baud, who comes across as a bit more neutral than Macgregor.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
"US Secretary of State Antony Blinken announced a new package of military assistance for Ukraine. The deal includes additional mine-clearing equipment, missiles for air defence, ammunition for artillery and high bar systems, and more than three million rounds of small arms ammunition."

Russia-Ukraine war: List of key events, day 553 | Russia-Ukraine war News | Al Jazeera


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/8/30/russia-ukraine-war-list-of-key-events-day-553
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:

"US Secretary of State Antony Blinken announced a new package of military assistance for Ukraine. The deal includes additional mine-clearing equipment, missiles for air defence, ammunition for artillery and high bar systems, and more than three million rounds of small arms ammunition."

Russia-Ukraine war: List of key events, day 553 | Russia-Ukraine war News | Al Jazeera


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/8/30/russia-ukraine-war-list-of-key-events-day-553

We have plenty of that kind of ammo, having the largest civilian gun owner base in the world by a wide margin.

It's the shells fired from cannons that is the issue, esp 155mm. As well as the cannons themselves, and assorted "tubes", as most of the cannons that haven't been destroyed by Russia by now are getting worn out. NATO is sourcing out replacements from countries like Morocco (which is also providing dozens of T-72 tanks), Pakistan, Egypt, S. Korea, Japan, Sudan etc

https://armedforces.eu/land_forces/ranking_artillery

Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
successful drone atack on Russian airfield near Estonia might have originated from Estonia, which would constitute a major escalation in the war...

bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Eastern Oregon Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
dimitrig said:

oski003 said:

dimitrig said:

movielover said:

Get this. A long-time social science professor friend in DC doesn't know Ukraine and NATO are low on ammo. He has asked me 3 times to send him proof, I suggested Google (I don't want to play the gotcha game). He claims to be Independent, appears Liberal, hates Trump. He also claims to not know Ukraine is getting slaughtered.

He's suggested I move to Moscow since I "love" Putin (??). I'm just stating basic facts. He religiously reads the NYT and WP. He then wrote, "Nuke em. We have lots."

As if things couldn't be more absurd, I asked him who his military sources are (Colonel McGregor myself, Mearsheimer, and others). He replied, "I know a military lobbyist." !!

(He has one-year Harvard Masters degree.)

Sounds like a smart guy who has you pegged.

Why don't you just send him proof and see what he responds with. Given the inundation of Western media, his assumption that NATO is winning is the status quo.

Yep. A lot of links to videos with Colonel McGregor ought-ta convince him.

That's more effort than movielover ever puts out. He's big on asking people to provide proof, usually with complex questions like "Link?" or "Cite?", but we we ask him for proof of his claims, it's usually radio silence.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Given Russia's recent failures in the war - including its inability to defend its citizens and its domestic military bases from Ukrainian drones - it's no wonder we are seeing more false claims about the beginning of the war recently in propaganda land.

This post includes some reminders of how things started as well as a few hits about where things currently are. As always, this is really just me documenting my thoughts. When this criminal invasion finally ends, I can come back and evaluate what I posted.

I see people on twitter pretending that this war is happening because NATO or Biden prevented Ukraine from surrendering immediately when Putin came for Kyiv. People seem to forget that we offered to evacuate Zelensky and his response. In depth article here about a common tortured path that the propagandists use to spread this deceptive message.

Zelensky's messaging is largely unchanged - he wants the tools to repel the invasion. He knows there can never be an agreed peace which relies on Putin's compliance with an agreement since time after time Putin has shown that he doesn't care. A "peace" really just means giving Putin a chance to recover and rebuild his military to try again.





And why wouldn't he? The idea that Russia just wants to take Crimea and create an independent Donbas was always a fiction, just like their pretense about NATO. From the start (as I've documented earlier), Putin has claimed that Ukraine has no right to exist and that they aren't a legitimate people. For all of the fake handwringing over Russiaphobia, the real issue is the desire by Putin to genocide the Ukrainian people.



The good news is that Russia continues to struggle - both militarily and economically - from the impacts of this war. They don't have nearly the resources they pretend to have.

They fired dozens of missiles towards Kyiv a few nights ago and all were intercepted.



Meanwhile, Ukraine was able to deep strike into Russia at an airfield and they are sending drones nearly every day to Moscow. Ukranie also struck an airfield in Kursk.








Russia has substantially all of their military capability on the ground in Ukraine and has nothing left to defend itself. If it really cared about NATO, it would be focused on defense but it, like everyone else, understands that NATO is a defensive alliance and has never had any interest in attacking the sh(thole corrupt kleptocratic petro-state that Putin has used to generate his ~$200B fortune. And it will get harder and harder for him to continue his grift with his economy continuing to weaken.







Here's a milblogger examining just one example of how poorly managed Russia's military is:


People judged the Ukrainian offensive too early. It's still ongoing and the outcome has yet to be determined.

movielover
How long do you want to ignore this user?
He's a drone in the Swamp. Unfortunately, also vaxxed and 4 boosters before he woke up.

We're two years into this proxy war and still fiddling and excusing centuries old munitions plants. Our MIC and supply chains rely on just 2 plants? Wonderful.

AP: Unprepared for long war, US Army under gun to make more ammo

Colonel Douglass McGregor told us this over a year ago.

https://apnews.com/article/us-army-ukraine-russia-ammunition-war-75a9ca2e3be09578c65f1198ba5b72e5

We have hundreds of military bases, the Feds own much of the West... is there a law against building some large factories for wartime 'surge' capability? Have a moderate staff, and have the needed wartime capabilities.
Zippergate
How long do you want to ignore this user?
.
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
First Page Last Page
Page 187 of 294
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.