The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

919,697 Views | 10132 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by Cal88
Unit2Sucks
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sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

Perhaps a middle ground could be if we quit giving foreign aid to Ukraine and instead moved to a lend lease program. That could be a bridge toward a world where it isn't costing us anything and we are smartly continuing our efforts to stop an evil enemy.
I would believe this could work if I believed the core of the Republican opposition was really about cost. I don't think it is.

And to be clear, it's not a majority of Republicans who oppose the aid. If the foreign aid bill came to the floor in the House it would easily pass. The MAGA fringe of the GOP oppose it and with only a slim majority they can influence the Speaker to prevent a vote.
Most of the money is in the form of obsolete equipment and munitions that would never be deployed by the US and is just taking up space in warehouses.

Our military continues to be incredibly wasteful (for all of the reasons everyone is familiar with) but a lot of that waste is being put to use in Ukraine.

I would be all for a reduction in military spend but even so, I think we've gotten a higher ROI on our Ukraine military aid than any defense program in the last few decades. The ballyhooed littoral combat ship program is costing something like $100B and is basically of no value to us. Supporting Ukraine has probably cut Russia's military effectiveness in half and it will take years if not decades for Putin and his successors to return to the pre-invasion strength of the Russian military, and we now know that the pre-invasion strength was vastly over-estimated.

Russia might pose a higher percentage threat now than we realized a few years ago, but the magnitude of the threat is much smaller. All that for perhaps 3-5% of our annual military spend (the actual spend being quite fuzzy due to how you value obsolete military gear).
blungld
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I did misunderstand. Apologies.
The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!
Cal88
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I will address later some of the points made above, with which I disagree completely, but this week has been very eventful as far as the war itself, with the spectacular collapse of Avdiivka, a dramatic end to what has been the biggest battle since Ukraine ended its ill-fated offensive in the south.

The battle looks like a carbon copy of Bakhmut, with the Russians pushing to encircle the city from 3 sides early on then slowly grinding down Ukrainian troops from a position of strength, using a much larger firepower volume. The difference with Bakhmut is that the Russians have been relying much more on their air force and drones rather than urban warfare, with Wagner carrying the burden.





this is the real picture of this war, while neocons and gullible centrists are still drinking the slava ukraini koolaid, this war is being fought to the last Ukrainian:


Much like with Bakhmut, the stubborn and reckless Ukrainian leadership of Syrski and Zelensky kept doubling down instead of retreating. The week started with a disaster with the Ukrainian bringing in a large detachment of Azov troops into a relatively small area, which the Russians targeted with 11 Iskander missiles. in what might have been the heaviest losses Ukraine has sustained in 24 hrs over the course of this entire war.





Several thousand troops ended up being caught in the gauntlet as the Russians are now closing the mouth of the gauntlet - the retreat from Avdiivka is looking much more disorganized and bloody than Bakhmut.



Syrski's first month at the helm as a replacement for fired Zaluzhny started out with a disaster.
Quote:

Syrsky is to blame for the failure near Avdeevka, according to the Ukrainian Armed Forces

Ukrainian troops near Avdiivka have begun to retreat, and the units remaining in this territory lack soldiers and ammunition, France 24 reports.

In addition, the tactics of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in this direction are increasingly criticized. Disagreement with the decisions of the command, in particular, is expressed by representatives of the Azov battalion

As the TV channel emphasizes, discontent is directed, first of all, against the new commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, Alexander Syrsky, who is not popular among the Ukrainian population.


Big C
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Cal88, anything to say regarding Navalny's supposed passing? I remember you had bad things to say about him before, things which I had never heard on PBS News Hour (and certainly were not commented on on this evening's edition).

There, I served you up a softball: can you hit it out of the park? (Warning, if you sound too pro-Putin, your shot will die on the warning track.)
sycasey
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Big C said:


Cal88, anything to say regarding Navalny's supposed passing? I remember you had bad things to say about him before, things which I had never heard on PBS News Hour (and certainly were not commented on on this evening's edition).

There, I served you up a softball: can you hit it out of the park? (Warning, if you sound too pro-Putin, your shot will die on the warning track.)

I am just going to guess at his answer:

Lets Go Brandon 5
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Oh, and no matter how many times you delete it, 70% of Americans are still laughing at Unit2Sucks' war propaganda

tequila4kapp
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Genocide Joe said:


Oh, and no matter how many times you delete it, 70% of Americans are still laughing at Unit2Sucks' war propaganda


This says so much about our population and even more about the absolutely putrid job the admin has done making the case for supporting Ukraine, which is the most obvious and easy foreign policy position ever.
sycasey
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tequila4kapp said:

Genocide Joe said:


Oh, and no matter how many times you delete it, 70% of Americans are still laughing at Unit2Sucks' war propaganda


This says so much about our population and even more about the absolutely putrid job the admin has done making the case for supporting Ukraine, which is the most obvious and easy foreign policy position ever.

It's also not a very specific poll. Of course people want the war to end! That doesn't mean they think the terms should be "give Putin whatever he wants."
movielover
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History Legends has a sense of humor, labeling 4 battlefield areas as P A W G. 5-7,000 men trapped?

movielover
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FWIW, new construction projects in Russia. Lots of energy and rail.

Big C
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tequila4kapp said:

Genocide Joe said:


Oh, and no matter how many times you delete it, 70% of Americans are still laughing at Unit2Sucks' war propaganda


This says so much about our population and even more about the absolutely putrid job the admin has done making the case for supporting Ukraine, which is the most obvious and easy foreign policy position ever.

Just curious, how would you have better crafted the message?


Full disclosure: I am a firm supporter of our assistance to Ukraine over the past two years. With 20/20 hindsight, I wish we had been a little more timely with some of the better weapons, but we needed to walk a fine line there... the last thing we wanted was for the war to spread (or go nuclear).
sycasey
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Big C said:

tequila4kapp said:

Genocide Joe said:


Oh, and no matter how many times you delete it, 70% of Americans are still laughing at Unit2Sucks' war propaganda


This says so much about our population and even more about the absolutely putrid job the admin has done making the case for supporting Ukraine, which is the most obvious and easy foreign policy position ever.

Just curious, how would you have better crafted the message?


Full disclosure: I am a firm supporter of our assistance to Ukraine over the past two years. With 20/20 hindsight, I wish we had been a little more timely with some of the better weapons, but we needed to walk a fine line there... the last thing we wanted was for the war to spread (or go nuclear).

Gonna be pretty hard to gain broad public support for Ukraine when the leader of the other major party is out there actively tanking it.
dajo9
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movielover said:

FWIW, new construction projects in Russia. Lots of energy and rail.




Is this part of the Navalny murder PR rehabilitation campaign?
Cal88
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Big C said:


Cal88, anything to say regarding Navalny's supposed passing? I remember you had bad things to say about him before, things which I had never heard on PBS News Hour (and certainly were not commented on on this evening's edition).

There, I served you up a softball: can you hit it out of the park? (Warning, if you sound too pro-Putin, your shot will die on the warning track.)

First, some background info on Navalny, which should put a damper on the eulogies elevating him to a Mandela or a Lech Walesa.

Navalny is a lowlife white supremacist and a corrupt politician who has been convicted in a French court of defrauding French company Yves Rocher, which is very active on the Russian market. Note that this conviction came before he rose to become a higher-profile politician.

He is a virtual nobody in Russia, he started out running on a virulently anti-immigrant/anti-muslim hate platform that would have made hardcore racists like Geert Wilders or Jean-Marie Le Pen blush, running these kinds of ads, where he literally compared Muslim migrants (including those from Russia proper who move to northern cities) to roaches that have to be exterminated and shot:



Neoliberal hero Navalny hailing a cab in Moscow:


Navalny's bid as a far right hatemonger having miserably failed, he repackaged himself as a classic liberal political agenda, backed by the US/NATO NGO apparatus that was still very active a decade ago in Russia.

However, Navalny's neoliberal constituency in Russia runs in the low single digits, mostly younger Moscow and St Pete urbanites who don't remember as well the neoliberal hell of the1990s. As an opposition political figure, he was in 3rd place in opposition to Putin, behind the Communists and the far-right nationalists, who were led by Zhirinovsky, a colorful character prone to wild statements, sort of a much more extreme right wing Russian version of Trump.

WaPo editorial on Navalny - before the war, the MSM did some surprisingly decent journalism on Russia:


Quote:

We need to have a talk about Alexei Navalny
By Terrell Jermaine Starr
March 1, 2021

Last week, Amnesty International caused a stir by downgrading Russia's most famous opposition leader. The human rights group decided to rescind the status of "prisoner of conscience" it had previously given to Alexei Navalny, who was sentenced last month to a little over 3 1/2 years in prison by a Russian court.

Amnesty says that it took action because of past comments made by Navalny that "may have amounted to advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, violence or hostility."

If Navalny is serious about challenging the current regime, Russians and the outside world have a right to know precisely whom we're dealing with.

Navalny's political fame rests primarily on his success as an anti-corruption activist but he's also made waves with his strident xenophobia. In one notorious 2007 video, he equates Muslim militants with "cockroaches" that can only be dealt with by exterminating them. In another from 2011, he depicts himself as an unapologetic nationalist who will deport non-White immigrants from Central Asia and the Caucasus by ruthlessly deporting them. There are other examples.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/03/01/we-need-have-talk-about-alexei-navalny/

Furthermore, there is evidence that Navalny conspired with UK and US agents to put together a color revolution, that would be generously funded by them (asking price was $20M). This is why the Russians jailed him, for treason. Navalny was very close with US neocon figures like furdie McFaul, who got Navalny's daughter in at the Farm.


Now his death - first of all, cui bono? Navalny was already neutralized from Putin's perspective, locked away in Siberia for 20 years, and now he's become more of a pest for him as a martyr in the West.

As well the timing is uncanny, right at the time the Russians scored one of their biggest wins at Avdiivka, and when Putin had scored a global PR win with the Tucker interview. The death of Navalny steals the thunder from those two Russian PR wins. Putin and the Russians are very calculating and patient actors, they would have chosen a much more favorable time to liquidate Navalny, if that ever was their intention.

Perhaps Navalny's passing was caused by natural causes induced by very rough conditions of his detention, a sort of indirect homicide from the physical strain he was put through, where the timing of his death would have been more random.

In any case, those who are lamenting his passing while having said nothing about the death of Gonzalo Lira in similar conditions at a Ukrainian goulag, or that of dozens who made the Ukrainian master kill list, these two unfortunate souls being the more prominent examples:

Big C
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Cal88 said:

Big C said:


Cal88, anything to say regarding Navalny's supposed passing? I remember you had bad things to say about him before, things which I had never heard on PBS News Hour (and certainly were not commented on on this evening's edition).

There, I served you up a softball: can you hit it out of the park? (Warning, if you sound too pro-Putin, your shot will die on the warning track.)

First, some background info on Navalny, which should put a damper on the eulogies elevating him to a Mandela or a Lech Walesa.

Navalny is a lowlife white supremacist and a corrupt politician who has been convicted in a French court of defrauding French company Yves Rocher, which is very active on the Russian market. Note that this conviction came before he rose to become a higher-profile politician.

He is a virtual nobody in Russia, he started out running on a virulently anti-immigrant/anti-muslim hate platform that would have made hardcore racists like Geert Wilders or Jean-Marie Le Pen blush, running these kinds of ads, where he literally compared Muslim migrants (including those from Russia proper who move to northern cities) to roaches that have to be exterminated and shot:



Neoliberal hero Navalny hailing a cab in Moscow:


Navalny's bid as a far right hatemonger having miserably failed, he repackaged himself as a classic liberal political agenda, backed by the US/NATO NGO apparatus that was still very active a decade ago in Russia.

However, Navalny's neoliberal constituency in Russia runs in the low single digits, mostly younger Moscow and St Pete urbanites who don't remember as well the neoliberal hell of the1990s. As an opposition political figure, he was in 3rd place in opposition to Putin, behind the Communists and the far-right nationalists, who were led by Zhirinovsky, a colorful character prone to wild statements, sort of a much more extreme right wing Russian version of Trump.

WaPo editorial on Navalny - before the war, the MSM did some surprisingly decent journalism on Russia:


Quote:

We need to have a talk about Alexei Navalny
By Terrell Jermaine Starr
March 1, 2021

Last week, Amnesty International caused a stir by downgrading Russia's most famous opposition leader. The human rights group decided to rescind the status of "prisoner of conscience" it had previously given to Alexei Navalny, who was sentenced last month to a little over 3 1/2 years in prison by a Russian court.

Amnesty says that it took action because of past comments made by Navalny that "may have amounted to advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, violence or hostility."

If Navalny is serious about challenging the current regime, Russians and the outside world have a right to know precisely whom we're dealing with.

Navalny's political fame rests primarily on his success as an anti-corruption activist but he's also made waves with his strident xenophobia. In one notorious 2007 video, he equates Muslim militants with "cockroaches" that can only be dealt with by exterminating them. In another from 2011, he depicts himself as an unapologetic nationalist who will deport non-White immigrants from Central Asia and the Caucasus by ruthlessly deporting them. There are other examples.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/03/01/we-need-have-talk-about-alexei-navalny/

Furthermore, there is evidence that Navalny conspired with UK and US agents to put together a color revolution, that would be generously funded by them (asking price was $20M). This is why the Russians jailed him, for treason. Navalny was very close with US neocon figures like furdie McFaul, who got Navalny's daughter in at the Farm.


Now his death - first of all, cui bono? Navalny was already neutralized from Putin's perspective, locked away in Siberia for 20 years, and now he's become more of a pest for him as a martyr in the West.

As well the timing is uncanny, right at the time the Russians scored one of their biggest wins at Avdiivka, and when Putin had scored a global PR win with the Tucker interview. The death of Navalny steals the thunder from those two Russian PR wins. Putin and the Russians are very calculating and patient actors, they would have chosen a much more favorable time to liquidate Navalny, if that ever was their intention.

Perhaps Navalny's passing was caused by natural causes induced by very rough conditions of his detention, a sort of indirect homicide from the physical strain he was put through, where the timing of his death would have been more random.

In any case, those who are lamenting his passing while having said nothing about the death of Gonzalo Lira in similar conditions at a Ukrainian goulag, or that of dozens who made the Ukrainian master kill list, these two unfortunate souls being the more prominent examples:



Interesting stuff. That picture of him by the Golden Gate looks photoshopped, but no matter: Did his daughter really go to Furd? Because that's a dealbreaker for me.

Lately, I'm finding point-of-view in "mainstream left" media to be quite fascinating, as far as it influences how they report current events. Specifically, what do they do when a new event unfolds where it is not clear which side best advances their agenda. Recent examples include Israel/Palestine and now Navalny.

PBS News Hour must be in quite a tizzy lately ("Oh, Israel's been attacked!" "Oh wait! Israel's attacking the oppressed!" "Oh, Navalny the martyr has died!" "Oh wait! Navalny was an anti-Muslim white supremacist!")
sycasey
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Navalny being a good or bad person is immaterial. The issue is that Putin has any and all political opposition killed.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Navalny being a good or bad person is immaterial. The issue is that Putin has any and all political opposition killed.

There are, at the very least, grounds for him being imprisoned from the Russian perspective, mostly his being a bona fide foreign agent. And the whitewashing of his persona is not irrelevant in this discussion.

The other issue here is that the Ukraine government and their sponsors have been eliminating political opponents at a far greater rate, including an American citizen whose only crime was to be critical of the Zelensky government. They have an official kill list with hundreds of names. That aspect doesn't seem to generate any outrage or media coverage.
Unit2Sucks
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sycasey said:

Navalny being a good or bad person is immaterial. The issue is that Putin has any and all political opposition killed.


Not just opposition, Putin is also persecuting Navalny's mourners. This is a pretty typical authoritarian crackdown on dissent. Putin knows his popularity is flagging and that this pryhhic war wasn't going to assist Putin's "election" so he decided to make it very clear to all Russians that opposition will not be allowed. Preventing challengers to stand for election and murdering Navalny serves to get the point across.





The pro Russian shills are having a field day using the assassination of Putin's biggest political opponent by Putin to further amplify their pro-Putin propaganda. It's pathetic but not surprising.





movielover
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Russia's crazy surge in military production; 1500 tanks in one year; 2200 armored vehicles; 22,000 drones

oski003
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This article appears to vindicate some folks who were attacked by the Bi peanut gallery for arguing that Russia is not in a weak financial position.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/19/europe/russia-oil-india-shadow-fleet-cmd-intl/index.html
Cal88
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Avdiivka epilogue from HistoryLegends, very disorganized and costly end of that campaign by the Ukrainian leadership. Syrsky, the new military leader, is cementing his reputation as "General 200", that number being codename for KIA, as he has been consistently reckless with the use of his troops.


Female soldiers stuck in the basement of the coke plant in Avdiivka:

tequila4kapp
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A ballerina from CA with dual citizenship is arrested in Russia for Treason because she donated $50 to a pro Ukrainian organization. She went to see her parents. But still, how stupid do you have to be as an American to travel to Russia
sycasey
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tequila4kapp said:

A ballerina from CA with dual citizenship is arrested in Russia for Treason because she donated $50 to a pro Ukrainian organization. She went to see her parents. But still, how stupid do you have to be as an American to travel to Russia
Technically they are Canadian, but . . .

tequila4kapp
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sycasey said:

Navalny being a good or bad person is immaterial. The issue is that Putin has any and all political opposition killed.


Prominant figures whose deaths have been linked to their opposition to Putin.

Alexei Navalny (February 2024)
Navalny, a formidable critic of Putin and a leading figure in anti-corruption campaigns, died in a remote prison under unclear circumstances. Known for organizing massive protests against the Kremlin, he was serving a 19-year sentence on charges of extremism. His death came just before the Russian presidential election, raising numerous questions about its timing and nature.

Yevgeny Prigozhin (August 2023)
The head of the Wagner mercenary group, Prigozhin played a controversial role in Russia's military operations in Ukraine. Following an unsuccessful coup attempt, he perished in a plane crash, a fate that Moscow has consistently denied orchestrating.

Ravil Maganov (September 2022)
Maganov, the president of Lukoil, Russia's largest private oil company, died after allegedly falling from a sixth-floor window. Officially ruled a suicide, his death occurred amid reports of heart problems, depression, and alcohol addiction.

Selimkhan Khangoshvili (August 2019)
A Georgian of Chechen origin and a veteran of the Chechen wars against Russia, Khangoshvili was assassinated in Berlin. The perpetrator, a Russian secret service agent, was apprehended and sentenced, highlighting the reach of Russian operations abroad.


Dmitri Bykov (April 2019)
Bykov, a writer and outspoken critic of Putin, mysteriously fell ill on a flight and passed away after days in a coma. His death remains a chilling reminder of the risks faced by those who vocally oppose the regime.

Pyotr Verzilov (September 2018)
A member of the ***** Riot activist group, Verzilov's death was attributed to poisoning. His activism and criticism of Putin's government made him a target for silencing through lethal means.

Sergei Skripal (March 2018)
Although Skripal and his daughter Yulia survived, their poisoning in Salisbury, UK, marked a significant international incident. A former Russian agent, Skripal's defection and subsequent targeting were seen as a message to others who might betray the Kremlin.

Boris Nemtsov (February 2015)
Nemtsov, a former deputy prime minister and a vocal critic of Putin, was assassinated in Moscow. His death sparked international outrage and underscored the perilous environment for political opposition in Russia.

Natalya Estemirova (July 2009)
A historian and leading human rights activist, Estemirova was abducted and killed, with her body found bearing signs of execution. Her work with Memorial put her at odds with Chechen authorities and, by extension, the Kremlin.

Stanislav Markelov and Anastasia Baburova (January 2009)
Markelov, a human rights lawyer, and Baburova, a journalist, were gunned down in Moscow. Markelov's advocacy for Chechen families and investigation into right-wing extremism made him a target, while Baburova's death highlighted the dangers faced by those associated with opposition figures.

Alexander Litvinenko (November 2006)
A former KGB agent who defected and became a vocal critic of Putin, Litvinenko's poisoning by polonium-210 in London was a high-profile case that strained UK-Russia relations. His death is perhaps one of the most infamous incidents linked to the Kremlin's alleged efforts to silence its detractors.
Haloski
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Putin's still a really good person and Russia is a beacon of freedom, correct? I just want to make sure I'm keeping up with reality.
Haloski
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Yes, but you have to understand that Russia is a beacon of personal freedom.
Haloski
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How does one reconcile trying to compare Trump to Navalny while simultaneously praising Putin and criticizing alleged encroachments of freedom in the United States? That kind of twisting would induce an aneurysm for most.
oski003
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Haloski said:

Putin's still a really good person and Russia is a beacon of freedom, correct? I just want to make sure I'm keeping up with reality.


Putin is not a really good person and Russia is not a beacon of freedom.
tequila4kapp
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sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

A ballerina from CA with dual citizenship is arrested in Russia for Treason because she donated $50 to a pro Ukrainian organization. She went to see her parents. But still, how stupid do you have to be as an American to travel to Russia
Technically they are Canadian, but . . .


Nope, California.

"Karelina is a resident of Los Angeles who became a US citizen in 2021. Last summer, she married her American husband."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13104411/amp/Russian-ballerina-arrested-high-treason-shown-stunning-photos-pirouetting-Brooklyn-Bridge-obtaining-citizenship.html
Unit2Sucks
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tequila4kapp said:

A ballerina from CA with dual citizenship is arrested in Russia for Treason because she donated $50 to a pro Ukrainian organization. She went to see her parents. But still, how stupid do you have to be as an American to travel to Russia
You would think someone like that would be very aware of the risks. Perhaps with more stories like this plus Navalny's murder, plus the extra-judicial mob-style murder in Spain of the helicopter pilot will remind more people that Russia is closer to North Korea than it is to a western democracy.

Russia's making a lot of hay right now with the US ceasing to support Ukraine but in the grand scheme of things, this war continues to be a financial and human capital disaster for Putin and Russia. The only positive is that Russia's XL commitment to propaganda continues to mislead people worldwide and obfuscate just how poorly this has gone.

Is this the sign of a country that has gotten stronger?



Even Russia's renewed propaganda push on expanding it's military production is designed to obfuscate that much of their production consists of "refurbishing" decades-old SOVIET equipment that's been rotting in storage.

Quote:

The leap in rates of production comes unexpected, since the earlier open data suggested that russians could make only about 200 new tanks per year, namely those of the T-90M Proryv type.
A closer look at the data provided by Murakhovsky reveals the following:
  • the russian army received 210 new tanks in 2023, compared to only 30 units in 2020;
  • the number of T-72B3s delivered to the russian army in 2023 is 840 vehicles, compared to 120 units in 2020;
  • also, the "taken from storage" category amounts to 840 vehicles, including T-80, T-72, T-62, and T-55/54 tank types.
However, when cross-referencing these calculations with other sources, a different picture emerges. The Swedish research institute FOI, in its report on the military potential of russia after 1.5 years of war against Ukraine, estimates a much smaller annual tank production of around 520 new vehicles per year:
  • 62 tanks, type T-90M Proryv, and 62 more of types T-90/T-90A;
  • 80 tanks, type T-80BVM;
  • 140 tanks, type T-72B3, and 140 more of T-72B3M modification.


And just another reminder of how thoroughly drones have already changed the face of warfare. I know this was supposed to be the war where tanks made a comeback, but the impact of drones is many orders of magnitude more important. Russian tanks, ships and (parked) planes are no match for commodity drones and I imagine US hardware is similarly compromised.
sycasey
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tequila4kapp said:

sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

A ballerina from CA with dual citizenship is arrested in Russia for Treason because she donated $50 to a pro Ukrainian organization. She went to see her parents. But still, how stupid do you have to be as an American to travel to Russia
Technically they are Canadian, but . . .


Nope, California.

"Karelina is a resident of Los Angeles who became a US citizen in 2021. Last summer, she married her American husband."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13104411/amp/Russian-ballerina-arrested-high-treason-shown-stunning-photos-pirouetting-Brooklyn-Bridge-obtaining-citizenship.html
Sorry, maybe bad context there. I was adding another story of a Canadian family that tried to move to Russia and just wound up getting their money stolen and stuck there.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

A ballerina from CA with dual citizenship is arrested in Russia for Treason because she donated $50 to a pro Ukrainian organization. She went to see her parents. But still, how stupid do you have to be as an American to travel to Russia
Technically they are Canadian, but . . .


This reminds me of a similar story from the 1990s. There was a not very prominent science fiction writer, Leo Frankowski, who was an incel before being an incel was cool. He posted some diatribes about how feminism was ruining women and finally declared he was thinking of moving to Russia where people were now freer than in America and women understood their proper place and had traditional values. He met a girlfriend on one of those "Meet beautiful Russian women" websites. So, he quickly moved to Russia, bought some land and started building a castle shaped house. Within a couple of years, government corruption, contractor corruption and his girlfriend had drained his life savings. He came slinking back to America even more bitter than before.
Haloski
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oski003 said:

Haloski said:

Putin's still a really good person and Russia is a beacon of freedom, correct? I just want to make sure I'm keeping up with reality.


Putin is not a really good person and Russia is not a beacon of freedom.


Please don't tell Cal88 about this. They'll be crestfallen. We can keep it to ourselves.
dajo9
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sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

A ballerina from CA with dual citizenship is arrested in Russia for Treason because she donated $50 to a pro Ukrainian organization. She went to see her parents. But still, how stupid do you have to be as an American to travel to Russia
Technically they are Canadian, but . . .




Zippergate? Is that you?
movielover
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Haloski said:

Putin's still a really good person and Russia is a beacon of freedom, correct? I just want to make sure I'm keeping up with reality.


I haven't seen anybody here say Putin was a good or moral person. Many acknowledge that NATO in Ukraine was an existential threat to Russia - even Barry knew this, some academics knew this. See the Cuban Missile Crisis for reference.

Putin saw a weak Biden / Obama, saw Nuland and our CIA cavorting, got tired of the Civil war, and acted. He saw our stupidity in Afghanistan and knew we were impotent. He moved, but with only 200K military, the idea he was going to invade Poland / Europe is hysterical.

Two months in the framework of a peace deal was put together. Zelensky the non-Ukranian speaker ran on peace. Biden Obama sent Boris Johnson to nix the
deal; Austin said he wanted to "weaken" Russia. The rest is history. Russia is now pushing a 1 million man army, has battle-hardened troops, drones from Iran and stronger ties to North Korea and China, along with 20% of Ukraine. Meanwhile, the western powers can't produce ammunition, and every time they lose face someone is talking about nukes.
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