The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

920,120 Views | 10133 Replies | Last: 8 hrs ago by Eastern Oregon Bear
Cal88
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bearister said:

Last week Zelenskyy claimed 31,000 Ukrainian troops have been killed and 180,000 Russian troops. Undoubtedly the first number is too low and the second too high.

Before the invasion I wouldn't have purchased a used car from either country. Both are untrustworthy, as are their respective media spinmeisters.

Prigozhin, in control of the Wagner Group until Putin orchestrated a Masters of the Air death for him, said this about Russian troop fatalities back in June, 2023:

" Wagner PMC chief Yevgeny Prigozhin confirmed that his organization had lost over 20,000 troops killed by May 25, 2023. He went on to claim that overall, the Russian military had lost 120,000 dead in Ukraine by late June. He accused the Ministry of Defence of systematically downplaying Russian losses.

"Wagner chief says 20,000 of its troops killed in Bakhmut battle." Al Jazeera. May 25, 2023. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/25/wagner-chief-says-20000-of-its-troops-killed-in-bakhmut-battle


"Kunnas: Prigozhin destroys official narrative of Ukraine war in Russia" Eesti Rahvusringhaaling. June 25, 2023.
https://news.err.ee/1609017332/kunnas-prigozhin-destroys-official-narrative-of-ukraine-war-in-russia

*Feel free to explain why Prigozhan was lying and link your source. Also provide links providing support for the argument that your sources for troop deaths are rock solid with no motive for being untruthful.

* If Prigozhan figure of 120,000 as of 6/23 is credible, then adding the Russian troop deaths that have occurred in the last 8 months May bring the totals not so far south of Zelenskyy's 180k figure.


Prigozhin was in open confrontation with the Russian military leadership, he was an ambitious warlord with grand designs over Russian leadership, so making the military leaders look bad with his numbers suited his political ambitions. Prigozhin was prone to theatrical posturing.

Mediazona is the best source for Russian casualties, it is a fairly reliable western source with a sound methodology.
https://en.zona.media/article/2022/05/20/casualties_eng
Eastern Oregon Bear
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What caused Navalny's blood clot? Beatings and internal bleeding seem like a probable cause.

I also have trouble taking Russian or Ukrainian sources as reliable.
dajo9
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Cal88 said:

bearister said:

Last week Zelenskyy claimed 31,000 Ukrainian troops have been killed and 180,000 Russian troops. Undoubtedly the first number is too low and the second too high.

Before the invasion I wouldn't have purchased a used car from either country. Both are untrustworthy, as are their respective media spinmeisters.

Prigozhin, in control of the Wagner Group until Putin orchestrated a Masters of the Air death for him, said this about Russian troop fatalities back in June, 2023:

" Wagner PMC chief Yevgeny Prigozhin confirmed that his organization had lost over 20,000 troops killed by May 25, 2023. He went on to claim that overall, the Russian military had lost 120,000 dead in Ukraine by late June. He accused the Ministry of Defence of systematically downplaying Russian losses.

"Wagner chief says 20,000 of its troops killed in Bakhmut battle." Al Jazeera. May 25, 2023. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/25/wagner-chief-says-20000-of-its-troops-killed-in-bakhmut-battle


"Kunnas: Prigozhin destroys official narrative of Ukraine war in Russia" Eesti Rahvusringhaaling. June 25, 2023.
https://news.err.ee/1609017332/kunnas-prigozhin-destroys-official-narrative-of-ukraine-war-in-russia

*Feel free to explain why Prigozhan was lying and link your source. Also provide links providing support for the argument that your sources for troop deaths are rock solid with no motive for being untruthful.

* If Prigozhan figure of 120,000 as of 6/23 is credible, then adding the Russian troop deaths that have occurred in the last 8 months May bring the totals not so far south of Zelenskyy's 180k figure.


Prigozhin was in open confrontation with the Russian military leadership, he was an ambitious warlord with grand designs over Russian leadership, so making the military leaders look bad with his numbers suited his political ambitions. Prigozhin was prone to theatrical posturing.

Mediazona is the best source for Russian casualties, it is a fairly reliable western source with a sound methodology.
https://en.zona.media/article/2022/05/20/casualties_eng


We've been through this before but propaganda is a zombie that does not die.

Mediazona is reporting a count of KIA (not casualties as Putin88 says above) that they have been able to individually identify. Because true KIA is not publicly released in Russia, the real number is not known but is definitely higher based on Mediazona's own reporting. The number at the link also does not factor in Ukrainian separatists.

Per Mediazona, if you add in the KIA they have not been able to identify, the wounded, and the Ukrainian separatists, their estimate of pro Russian force casualties is much higher. Basically the same as the U.S. has reported.

Putin88 is just a low grade propagandist who can't even get promoted out of this hellhole forum. Funny though - I used to call Prighozin a warlord because that is what he was. Putin88 never called him that until Prighozin turned on Putin, who is dead.
Unit2Sucks
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dajo9 said:




We've been through this before but propaganda is a zombie that does not die.

Mediazona is reporting a count of KIA (not casualties as Putin88 says above) that they have been able to individually identify. Because true KIA is not publicly released in Russia, the real number is not known but is definitely higher based on Mediazona's own reporting. The number at the link also does not factor in Ukrainian separatists.

Per Mediazona, if you add in the KIA they have not been able to identify, the wounded, and the Ukrainian separatists, their estimate of pro Russian force casualties is much higher. Basically the same as the U.S. has reported.

Putin88 is just a low grade propagandist who can't even get promoted out of this hellhole forum. Funny though - I used to call Prighozin a warlord because that is what he was. Putin88 never called him that until Prighozin turned on Putin, who is dead.
Prig was a hero to the propagandists, until their discord servers told them he wasn't.

And lol at pretending that mediazona is an exhaustive list. May as well just cite TASS or Putin directly.

The firehose of falsehoods is relentless which is why you should just ignore them. They have an endless supply of disinformation to choose from and you will never be able to drown them out.
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

bearister said:

Last week Zelenskyy claimed 31,000 Ukrainian troops have been killed and 180,000 Russian troops. Undoubtedly the first number is too low and the second too high.

Before the invasion I wouldn't have purchased a used car from either country. Both are untrustworthy, as are their respective media spinmeisters.

Prigozhin, in control of the Wagner Group until Putin orchestrated a Masters of the Air death for him, said this about Russian troop fatalities back in June, 2023:

" Wagner PMC chief Yevgeny Prigozhin confirmed that his organization had lost over 20,000 troops killed by May 25, 2023. He went on to claim that overall, the Russian military had lost 120,000 dead in Ukraine by late June. He accused the Ministry of Defence of systematically downplaying Russian losses.

"Wagner chief says 20,000 of its troops killed in Bakhmut battle." Al Jazeera. May 25, 2023. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/25/wagner-chief-says-20000-of-its-troops-killed-in-bakhmut-battle


"Kunnas: Prigozhin destroys official narrative of Ukraine war in Russia" Eesti Rahvusringhaaling. June 25, 2023.
https://news.err.ee/1609017332/kunnas-prigozhin-destroys-official-narrative-of-ukraine-war-in-russia

*Feel free to explain why Prigozhan was lying and link your source. Also provide links providing support for the argument that your sources for troop deaths are rock solid with no motive for being untruthful.

* If Prigozhan figure of 120,000 as of 6/23 is credible, then adding the Russian troop deaths that have occurred in the last 8 months May bring the totals not so far south of Zelenskyy's 180k figure.


Prigozhin was in open confrontation with the Russian military leadership, he was an ambitious warlord with grand designs over Russian leadership, so making the military leaders look bad with his numbers suited his political ambitions. Prigozhin was prone to theatrical posturing.

Mediazona is the best source for Russian casualties, it is a fairly reliable western source with a sound methodology.
https://en.zona.media/article/2022/05/20/casualties_eng


We've been through this before but propaganda is a zombie that does not die.

Mediazona is reporting a count of KIA (not casualties as Putin88 says above) that they have been able to individually identify. Because true KIA is not publicly released in Russia, the real number is not known but is definitely higher based on Mediazona's own reporting. The number at the link also does not factor in Ukrainian separatists.

Per Mediazona, if you add in the KIA they have not been able to identify, the wounded, and the Ukrainian separatists, their estimate of pro Russian force casualties is much higher. Basically the same as the U.S. has reported.

Putin88 is just a low grade propagandist who can't even get promoted out of this hellhole forum. Funny though - I used to call Prighozin a warlord because that is what he was. Putin88 never called him that until Prighozin turned on Putin, who is dead.

The real number is not much higher than Mediazona's estimate. Also, the Donbas forces have been integrated into the Russian military fold over a year ago.

US estimates of Russian casualties were 315k-350k, way out of proportion with the 44k KIA Mediazona estimate, even accounting for the injured.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/

Prigozhyn became a warlord the moment he went rogue, before that he was the leader of Wagner, a unit that operated within the framework of the Russian military.

Notice that the Russian losses have been low for the past 3 months according the Mediazona, while Ukraine has been suffering catastrophic losses trying to hold on to Avdviivka at all costs.
movielover
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Ukraine gets a few drone strikes, and took out a few ships.

Russian forces recently hit a Ukrainian troop transfer station behind the front and killed over 1500 men in one strike.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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movielover said:

Ukraine gets a few drone strikes, and took out a few ships.

Russian forces recently hit a Ukrainian troop transfer station behind the front and killed over 1500 men in one strike.
25 ships and a submarine equals "a few ships". Heh.

I suspect the lost ships killed more than 1500 Russian sailors.
Cal88
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

movielover said:

Ukraine gets a few drone strikes, and took out a few ships.

Russian forces recently hit a Ukrainian troop transfer station behind the front and killed over 1500 men in one strike.
25 ships and a submarine equals "a few ships". Heh.

I suspect the lost ships killed more than 1500 Russian sailors.

You don't kill an entire crew with drone strikes, you just disable the ship.
Cal88
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Unit2Sucks said:

dajo9 said:




We've been through this before but propaganda is a zombie that does not die.

Mediazona is reporting a count of KIA (not casualties as Putin88 says above) that they have been able to individually identify. Because true KIA is not publicly released in Russia, the real number is not known but is definitely higher based on Mediazona's own reporting. The number at the link also does not factor in Ukrainian separatists.

Per Mediazona, if you add in the KIA they have not been able to identify, the wounded, and the Ukrainian separatists, their estimate of pro Russian force casualties is much higher. Basically the same as the U.S. has reported.

Putin88 is just a low grade propagandist who can't even get promoted out of this hellhole forum. Funny though - I used to call Prighozin a warlord because that is what he was. Putin88 never called him that until Prighozin turned on Putin, who is dead.
Prig was a hero to the propagandists, until their discord servers told them he wasn't.

And lol at pretending that mediazona is an exhaustive list. May as well just cite TASS or Putin directly.

The firehose of falsehoods is relentless which is why you should just ignore them. They have an endless supply of disinformation to choose from and you will never be able to drown them out.

Nothing you've predicted turned out to be true, the firehose of falsehoods lies in your channels and in your own emotional Russophobe predilections aligned with those of neocons like Kagan, McFaul or Nuland whose belligerent mindset has caused over a million Ukrainian casualties and the ongoing destruction of that country in a war that could have been easily avoided if it weren't for their interventions.
movielover
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He's projecting.
Unit2Sucks
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

25 ships and a submarine equals "a few ships". Heh.

I suspect the lost ships killed more than 1500 Russian sailors.


Ukraine has done a lot more than devastate Russia's Black Sea fleet. They've also shot down a high percentage of Russian AWACS (such that if Russia loses one more they will no longer have around the clock capabilities) and Ukraine has taken out around 30 of Russia's "state of the art" SU-34s, including 8 in the last few weeks.

But Russia is stronger than ever and recently pretended to kill 1500 troops in a claimed strike against an empty location, so they have that going for them.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

25 ships and a submarine equals "a few ships". Heh.

I suspect the lost ships killed more than 1500 Russian sailors.


Ukraine has done a lot more than devastate Russia's Black Sea fleet. They've also shot down a high percentage of Russian AWACS (such that if Russia loses one more they will no longer have around the clock capabilities) and Ukraine has taken out around 30 of Russia's "state of the art" SU-34s, including 8 in the last few weeks.

But Russia is stronger than ever and recently pretended to kill 1500 troops in a claimed strike against an empty location, so they have that going for them.



Sounds like Ukraine is dominating. Why do we need to send another 60-75 billion again?
movielover
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Western propoganda was saying Russia was having manufacturing problems while another report said its MNF capacity was 7x that of NATO.

Our 'for profit' model doesn't work here, neither do 44 4-star generals.
bearister
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Cal88 said:


Mediazona is the best source for Russian casualties, it is a fairly reliable western source with a sound methodology.
https://en.zona.media/article/2022/05/20/casualties_eng


Russia suffers 75,000 military deaths in Ukraine war by end of 2023. Investigation by Mediazona and Meduza


https://en.zona.media/article/2024/02/24/75k

Am I correct in concluding:

1. Mediazona is anti Putin; and

2. Mediazona methodology assesses Russian troop deaths at 75,000+ and Ukrainian at 42,000+

3. Founded by the P@ussy Riot Ladies



*Aren't movielover's current Ukrainian troop death tally's currently just a whisker under 500k?
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Cal88
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45K confirmed, according to their methodology, 75K is a high estimate for the total based on that 45K number.

As to Ukraine,

1-their own military staff stated that they need 30,000 per month to replace their ongoing losses:


2-Ursula von der Leyen publicly declared in November 2022 that Ukraine had already had 100,000 soldiers killed. This would put the current figure at over 300,000 Ukrainian KIA.

3-Colonel Mcgregor stated that his NATO intel sources revealed that satellite photography revealed the existance of 120,000 fresh/recent graves in Ukrainian military cemeteries.
bearister
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"Colonel Mcgregor stated that his NATO intel sources revealed that satellite photography revealed the existance of 120,000 fresh/recent graves in Ukrainian military cemeteries."

…but Ukraine had a high Covid vaccination rate.



*Teasing is allowed between friends.

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Cal88
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bearister said:

"Colonel Mcgregor stated that his NATO intel sources revealed that satellite photography revealed the existance of 120,000 fresh/recent graves in Ukrainian military cemeteries."

…but Ukraine had a high Covid vaccination rate.



*Teasing is allowed between friends.



The plot thickens (so do the arteries, hehe)!

According to my Ukrainian relative, they got a lot of leftover/hand me down Astra Zenecas over there, which was the worst performing covid vax among the 4 major western ones, with higher incidence of clots.

movielover
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Let's extrapolate the 30K monthly Ukranian losses.

If 15K are injured or AWOL / surrender, that's still 15K KIA every month, which is 180K additional deaths per year.

Don't forget, a Ukrainian citizen blogger a month back claimed 1 million deaths.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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movielover said:

Don't forget, a Ukrainian citizen blogger a month back claimed 1 million deaths.
If it's on the internet, it must be true.
dajo9
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Cal88 said:

45K confirmed, according to their methodology, 75K is a high estimate for the total based on that 45K number.

As to Ukraine,

1-their own military staff stated that they need 30,000 per month to replace their ongoing losses:


2-Ursula von der Leyen publicly declared in November 2022 that Ukraine had already had 100,000 soldiers killed. This would put the current figure at over 300,000 Ukrainian KIA.

3-Colonel Mcgregor stated that his NATO intel sources revealed that satellite photography revealed the existance of 120,000 fresh/recent graves in Ukrainian military cemeteries.


Putin88 is playing with words when he says "45k confirmed". It is 45k identified and they need to be identified because Russia keeps it a secret. Mediazona would be the first to tell you 45k is not the number of Russian KIA.
Unit2Sucks
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dajo9 said:




Putin88 is playing with words when he says "45k confirmed". It is 45k identified and they need to be identified because Russia keeps it a secret. Mediazona would be the first to tell you 45k is not the number of Russian KIA.
We are 720+ days into Putin's 3-day war. Russian propagandists have been lying to us since before the war started and have no reason to stop.

This war has been a horrendous humanitarian disaster for Ukraine - it's been an incredibly brutal criminal invasion by Putin. In addition to the civilian massacres, like Bucha, the constant shelling of civilian targets and the fact that Ukraine has been forced to militarize its population has turned much of the country into a war zone. No one in Ukraine wanted it, but they didn't have a choice - they could submit to Putin's regressive, oppressive, revanchism or they could choose freedom.

While Putin hasn't managed to take much territory or break Ukraine's will (they suffered under Russian / Soviet rule for decades and don't want to go back) he has been effective at destroying their economy and way of life. No one is pretending otherwise - this is and has been an existential crisis for Ukraine ever since Putin decided to carry out his revanchist dreams to erase Ukraine from history.

But that doesn't mean the war has been successful for Russia. I don't think they ever imagined they would spend $200B in 2 years to gain very little territory and to not accomplish their goal of eliminating Ukraine. They were not able to install a puppet regime. It was much easier when they put Yankuovych in (with an assist from Manafort) and when all they had to do was pay and supply separatists in the east. The military losses have been substantial - the reported 315k casualties is now a heavily dated number and doesn't reflect the bloody losses in Avdiivka. Further, Russia's airforce and navy have seen devastating losses, not to mention it's infantry vehicles. Russia's ability to fight a war against NATO or others has been significantly diminished with most of its best and most experienced fighting forces absolutely devastated. The cherry-picking shills will never acknowledge this because their handlers tend to commit suicide when they acknowledge losses.

Russian civilian support for this dumb war is flagging and the poor people of Russia would much rather have money to put food on the table than to fund Putin's revanchism. Most Russians favor peace, but Putin couldn't care less what his people think or want. It's important to remember that if you don't support the Russian military, you are subjecting yourself to criminal punishment including meaningful jail time but if you look at the data, the support is nowhere near as strong as the shills pretend. This is not a united nation which wants to destroy Ukraine but one that tepidly supports a regime that punishes any critics.

Everything the pro-Putin shills share from their discord servers is designed to promote Putin's fascist regime and to gaslight people.




Zippergate
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We are 720+ days into Putin's 3-day war. Russian propagandists have been lying to us since before the war started and have no reason to stop.

Putin's war WAS over in a couple weeks. Peace was in reach. But the neocons wanted none of it and escalated this to a war between superpowers. All the death and destruction since is on them because without them it never would have occurred.
oski003
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Zippergate said:

We are 720+ days into Putin's 3-day war. Russian propagandists have been lying to us since before the war started and have no reason to stop.

Putin's war WAS over in a couple weeks. Peace was in reach. But the neocons wanted none of it and escalated this to a war between superpowers. All the death and destruction since is on them because without them it never would have occurred.


It is certainly on Russia as well, but many reliable sources have indicated that all of the blood shed usucks blames Russia for could have been prevented if the US and UK didn't block a peace deal. They traded Ukrainians lives to strengthen NATO and weaken Russia and probably thought, given the failure of Russia's initial invasion, that they'd be able to repel Russia easily. They were wrong, and many are dead.
Cal88
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oski003 said:

Zippergate said:

We are 720+ days into Putin's 3-day war. Russian propagandists have been lying to us since before the war started and have no reason to stop.

Putin's war WAS over in a couple weeks. Peace was in reach. But the neocons wanted none of it and escalated this to a war between superpowers. All the death and destruction since is on them because without them it never would have occurred.


It is certainly on Russia as well, but many reliable sources have indicated that all of the blood shed usucks blames Russia for could have been prevented if the US and UK didn't block a peace deal. They traded Ukrainians lives to strengthen NATO and weaken Russia and probably thought, given the failure of Russia's initial invasion, that they'd be able to repel Russia easily. They were wrong, and many are dead.

The point is, they never gave a crap about Ukrainian lives or what the country would look like if they put into power the most radical Ukrainian nationalists, armed them to the gills and sicced them against Russia, broke the Minsk treaties, the Istanbul peace deal and pushed a law making it illegal to negotiate a settlement with Russia.
sycasey
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Zippergate said:

We are 720+ days into Putin's 3-day war. Russian propagandists have been lying to us since before the war started and have no reason to stop.

Putin's war WAS over in a couple weeks. Peace was in reach. But the neocons wanted none of it and escalated this to a war between superpowers. All the death and destruction since is on them because without them it never would have occurred.

I will once again point out that Russia could have just stopped invading at any time.
Cal88
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Unit2Sucks said:


We are 720+ days into Putin's 3-day war. Russian propagandists have been lying to us since before the war started and have no reason to stop.

This war has been a horrendous humanitarian disaster for Ukraine - it's been an incredibly brutal criminal invasion by Putin. In addition to the civilian massacres, like Bucha, the constant shelling of civilian targets and the fact that Ukraine has been forced to militarize its population has turned much of the country into a war zone. No one in Ukraine wanted it, but they didn't have a choice - they could submit to Putin's regressive, oppressive, revanchism or they could choose freedom.
It's a bit unhinged to root for Israel as USucks does in the Gaza genocide thread, and to be outraged at the Russians, who have gone out of their way to avoid civilian deaths, who make up about 3% of their victims vs over 95% civilians killfor the Israelis.





Quote:


But that doesn't mean the war has been successful for Russia. I don't think they ever imagined they would spend $200B in 2 years to gain very little territory and to not accomplish their goal of eliminating Ukraine. They were not able to install a puppet regime. It was much easier when they put Yankuovych in (with an assist from Manafort) and when all they had to do was pay and supply separatists in the east.

-The Russians have been very successful in this war, inflicting highly disproportionate losses on the Ukrainian army, which is showing cracks today.

-The Russians don't "want to eliminate Ukraine", they want (1) a neutral Ukraine on their border and (2) a Kiev govt that doesn't mistreat its large Russian minority.

-Yanukovich was democratically elected in a fair election, and overthrown by a CIA-sponsored color revolution where putchist snipers shot civilians.

-People in the russophone blue region above rose spontaneously against the Maidan government, which usurped their legitimate government and mistreated that minority, relegating them to second class citizen status.



Quote:

The military losses have been substantial - the reported 315k casualties is now a heavily dated number and doesn't reflect the bloody losses in Avdiivka. Further, Russia's airforce and navy have seen devastating losses, not to mention it's infantry vehicles. Russia's ability to fight a war against NATO or others has been significantly diminished with most of its best and most experienced fighting forces absolutely devastated. The cherry-picking shills will never acknowledge this because their handlers tend to commit suicide when they acknowledge losses.
The Russian air force and navy losses amount to ~10% of their fleet. They produce more tanks, more shells than all of NATO combined (about 7 times more shells actually). They have inflicted far, far greater losses on the Ukrainians in Avdiivka, which was surrounded on 3 sides and subject to fierce bombardment for months on end.

If the Russians are losing so bad in equipment and personnel, why are they winning today?
Unit2Sucks
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Unit2Sucks said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

25 ships and a submarine equals "a few ships". Heh.

I suspect the lost ships killed more than 1500 Russian sailors.


Ukraine has done a lot more than devastate Russia's Black Sea fleet. They've also shot down a high percentage of Russian AWACS (such that if Russia loses one more they will no longer have around the clock capabilities) and Ukraine has taken out around 30 of Russia's "state of the art" SU-34s, including 8 in the last few weeks.

But Russia is stronger than ever and recently pretended to kill 1500 troops in a claimed strike against an empty location, so they have that going for them.

Following up because this is a hilarious example of Russian firehose propaganda. There is no doubt or debate that Russia has devastated Ukraine's air force. But because Ukraine has been destroying Russian airplanes and helicopters at a high clip. the Russian propaganda machine has retaliated with obviously, ridiculously false claims.

Ukraine reportedly had 250 airplanes and helicopters immediately before the war. They have received a few dozen from allies since then. It would be one thing for Russia to claim it's destroyed 100 or even 200. But that's not how Russia rolls. No, they are claiming to have destroyed more than triple the original force.



This idiotic, ridiculous, unconvicing claim is obviously a response to Ukraine methodically shooting down Russia's "state of the art" air force lately. This is Baghdad Bob level propaganda which is what Russia has to resort to when the results on the field have never been able to match their dreams.
Cal88
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Unit2Sucks said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

25 ships and a submarine equals "a few ships". Heh.

I suspect the lost ships killed more than 1500 Russian sailors.


Ukraine has done a lot more than devastate Russia's Black Sea fleet. They've also shot down a high percentage of Russian AWACS (such that if Russia loses one more they will no longer have around the clock capabilities) and Ukraine has taken out around 30 of Russia's "state of the art" SU-34s, including 8 in the last few weeks.

But Russia is stronger than ever and recently pretended to kill 1500 troops in a claimed strike against an empty location, so they have that going for them.

Following up because this is a hilarious example of Russian firehose propaganda. There is no doubt or debate that Russia has devastated Ukraine's air force. But because Ukraine has been destroying Russian airplanes and helicopters at a high clip. the Russian propaganda machine has retaliated with obviously, ridiculously false claims.

Ukraine reportedly had 250 airplanes and helicopters immediately before the war. They have received a few dozen from allies since then. It would be one thing for Russia to claim it's destroyed 100 or even 200. But that's not how Russia rolls. No, they are claiming to have destroyed more than triple the original force.



This idiotic, ridiculous, unconvicing claim is obviously a response to Ukraine methodically shooting down Russia's "state of the art" air force lately. This is Baghdad Bob level propaganda which is what Russia has to resort to when the results on the field have never been able to match their dreams.

Ukraine has sucked up just about every Mig and Sukhoi fighter or bomber jet from the air forces of Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Germany (DDR) etc. They've gone through just about that entire inventory, which was larger than the size of their own starting fleet if you count both fixed wings and helicopters.

Mig29s, Su25s and Su24s that they got from them were actually better suited for this war than the F16s coming in, as they can operate with shorter makeshift dirt runways and require less maintenance.

You want Baghdad Bob-level idiocy? Here you go:

Unit2Sucks
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Three more.



More on Russia's A-50 problem. Unclear to me whether this is accurate or not, but what is clear is that Russia is running out of A-50s and despite the lies you hear from their propaganda discord servers, Russia is having a hard time repairing and producing their aircraft.


The Russian-influenced GOP is intent on abdicating the US's role in safeguarding our allies, but other countries are stepping up. Probably not enough for Ukraine but could fill the gap until the GOP finally does the right thing. This is already leading to nuclear proliferation as Russia's malign influence on the US has become too large to ignore. Don't worry, Russian shills will show up to tell us that Putin is our friend and we should consider ourselves lucky that he chooses to devote his resources to conning dumb Americans.



Russia isn't just fomenting discord in Ukraine and in the US, they're doing it everywhere they can. Evidence they are behind protests in Poland. Putin knows his best shot at influencing the west is through subterfuge.


When will the shills stop pretending that this war isn't about conquest and elimination of Ukraine and its history?


Posting these for the LOLs.


oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

Three more.



More on Russia's A-50 problem. Unclear to me whether this is accurate or not, but what is clear is that Russia is running out of A-50s and despite the lies you hear from their propaganda discord servers, Russia is having a hard time repairing and producing their aircraft.


The Russian-influenced GOP is intent on abdicating the US's role in safeguarding our allies, but other countries are stepping up. Probably not enough for Ukraine but could fill the gap until the GOP finally does the right thing. This is already leading to nuclear proliferation as Russia's malign influence on the US has become too large to ignore. Don't worry, Russian shills will show up to tell us that Putin is our friend and we should consider ourselves lucky that he chooses to devote his resources to conning dumb Americans.



Russia isn't just fomenting discord in Ukraine and in the US, they're doing it everywhere they can. Evidence they are behind protests in Poland. Putin knows his best shot at influencing the west is through subterfuge.


When will the shills stop pretending that this war isn't about conquest and elimination of Ukraine and its history?


Posting these for the LOLs.



your propaganda seriously simultaneously argues that Russia is both running out of planes and also doesn't have enough mechanics to maintain the reduced number of these planes. Who writes this poop? Is their entire army also being decimated with scurvy?
Cal88
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Unit2Sucks said:

Three more.



The Ghost of Kiyv is back! In this case it's actually Victoria from Kiev, but the tales are just as fantastic.

From a more serious pro-NATO source:


"Claims by the Ukrainian Air Force since the Fall of Avdiivka have gotten Totally Ridiculous, while several Russian Military Aircraft including a A-50U Airborne-Early Warning and Control Aircraft have been Shot Down recently their continued claims of multiple Su-34 or Interceptions in a Day with Zero Evidence are just a Bad Look, such as today where they are claiming to have Downed at least 3 Su-34s.

I think everyone understand that during War you have to occasionally "Stretch the Truth" for either your Domestic or International Audience, especially when the War is beginning to not go as well as you would like, but as I said before these claims are starting to get Ridiculous and will make People start to Doubt other claims made by the Ukrainian Armed Forces."
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

We are 720+ days into Putin's 3-day war. Russian propagandists have been lying to us since before the war started and have no reason to stop.

Putin's war WAS over in a couple weeks. Peace was in reach. But the neocons wanted none of it and escalated this to a war between superpowers. All the death and destruction since is on them because without them it never would have occurred.

I will once again point out that Russia could have just stopped invading at any time.

Mearsheimer's answer:
https://www.youtube.com/live/Z-m5ZjW0zUQ?si=-FouUB0UkDrS1CiR&t=1449

Good full video from Colonel Davis
https://www.youtube.com/live/Z-m5ZjW0zUQ
Unit2Sucks
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The love affair between Putin's shills and Cucker Carlson is officially over.



Putin is back to making nuclear threats which require the firehose of conflicting falsehoods go brrr. Look forward to some furious cutting and pasting from discord servers.





Poland is starting to see that the abdication of the US is creating an existential crisis for former soviet republics who don't want to go back to life under Russian rule (as a reminder, Men live 10 years longer in Poland than Russia).



GOP's new favorite far-right foreign leader wants to help Ukraine, ending another short-lived love affair.



Fortunately for Ukraine, and our standing in the world, GOP is trying to maneuver around Moscow Mike's / Trump's blockade of support for Ukraine. Unfortunately, it can't undo the damage from 6 month's delay and it may be too little too late.

movielover
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What evidence suggests Russia wants Poland? They're not even prioritizing acquiring land, they're smashing Ukraine's military.
bear2034
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Maybe Unit 2 is a CIA bot.
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