The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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sycasey
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In reply to cbbass1 • 4:53p, 3/6/24
cbbass1 said:
sycasey said:
This conspiratorial obsession with Victoria Nuland is so bizarre to me. She had some influence and made her opinions known, sure, but never had actual power to force the governments of the US, Ukraine, or Russia to do anything they didn't want to.

Honestly, it only makes sense if you consider that she was very vocally anti-Putin and therefore Putin's propaganda operation went after her very hard.
Here's a more objective summary on Victoria Nuland's "resignation": Victoria Nuland: Ukraine's WICKED WITCH Resigns
Yes, I'm sure the summary that calls her a WICKED WITCH in the title is an "objective" summary. I stopped reading here.

Believe me, I have been over all the Nuland material you guys have kept shoving at me. The fact is that when I actually dig into it, all I find is that Nuland at some point voiced a preference for something happening that would be bad for Russia and good for her goals. There's no actual evidence of her actually doing anything to change election results or something, just conspiracy theorists extrapolating from those statements and making wild speculation. This looks like more of the same.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 7:21p, 3/6/24
sycasey said:
cbbass1 said:
sycasey said:
This conspiratorial obsession with Victoria Nuland is so bizarre to me. She had some influence and made her opinions known, sure, but never had actual power to force the governments of the US, Ukraine, or Russia to do anything they didn't want to.

Honestly, it only makes sense if you consider that she was very vocally anti-Putin and therefore Putin's propaganda operation went after her very hard.
Here's a more objective summary on Victoria Nuland's "resignation": Victoria Nuland: Ukraine's WICKED WITCH Resigns
Yes, I'm sure the summary that calls her a WICKED WITCH in the title is an "objective" summary. I stopped reading here.

Believe me, I have been over all the Nuland material you guys have kept shoving at me. The fact is that when I actually dig into it, all I find is that Nuland at some point voiced a preference for something happening that would be bad for Russia and good for her goals. There's no actual evidence of her actually doing anything to change election results or something, just conspiracy theorists extrapolating from those statements and making wild speculation. This looks like more of the same.

The US has engineered nearly 100 coups and regime changes around the world since WW2. Ukraine is just one of them.

You have to be completely detached from this basic reality to believe that the US did not plan and execute the Maidan Coup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change

Quote:
the United States expanded the geographic scope of its actions beyond traditional area of operations, Central America and the Caribbean. Significant operations included the United States and United Kingdomplanned 1953 Iranian coup d'tat, the 1961 Bay of Pigs Invasion targeting Cuba, and support for the overthrow of Sukarno by General Suharto in Indonesia. In addition, the U.S. has interfered in the national elections of countries, including Italy in 1948, the Philippines in 1953, Japan in the 1950s and 1960s Lebanon in 1957, and Russia in 1996.

According to one study, the U.S. performed at least 81 overt and covert known interventions in foreign elections during the period 19462000.

According to another study, the U.S. engaged in 64 covert and six overt attempts at regime change during the Cold War.
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concordtom
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In reply to dajo9 • 9:51p, 3/6/24
dajo9 said:
movielover said:
FWIW, new construction projects in Russia. Lots of energy and rail.



Is this part of the Navalny murder PR rehabilitation campaign?


Kill a dissident, build a rail line.

Hey, I just figured out how Jerry Brown can finally get that train from San Diego to San Francisco in 5 hours!

Yeah, baby, you know I'm talking about!!!

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cbbass1
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In reply to sycasey • 12:46a, 3/7/24
sycasey said:
cbbass1 said:
sycasey said:
This conspiratorial obsession with Victoria Nuland is so bizarre to me. She had some influence and made her opinions known, sure, but never had actual power to force the governments of the US, Ukraine, or Russia to do anything they didn't want to.

Honestly, it only makes sense if you consider that she was very vocally anti-Putin and therefore Putin's propaganda operation went after her very hard.
Here's a more objective summary on Victoria Nuland's "resignation": Victoria Nuland: Ukraine's WICKED WITCH Resigns
Yes, I'm sure the summary that calls her a WICKED WITCH in the title is an "objective" summary. I stopped reading here.

Believe me, I have been over all the Nuland material you guys have kept shoving at me. The fact is that when I actually dig into it, all I find is that Nuland at some point voiced a preference for something happening that would be bad for Russia and good for her goals. There's no actual evidence of her actually doing anything to change election results or something, just conspiracy theorists extrapolating from those statements and making wild speculation. This looks like more of the same.
Nuland was also a top advisor to Dick Cheney on rallying U.S. public opinion to invade Iraq in 2003, including lying to Americans, the UN, and the world, about Saddam's Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD).

She lies & starts wars for a living.

But yeah, I'm sure that all she did in Ukraine was hand out cookies.
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Unit2Sucks
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7:15a, 3/7/24
Most of the hate on Nuland is because people fall for the lie that Putin and his propaganda continue to propagate.

They always frame it the exact same way by claiming that Maidan was a coup or overthrow of a "democratically elected" government. They know full well that Putin, with an assist from Paul Manafort, controlled the election and that it was far from "democratic." There are numerous articles about this and it's not even remotely debatable. Yanukovych was a Russian asset and after he was thrown out of office he went into exile in Russia. His "campaign" claimed he would take Ukraine closer to the west, which they have always wanted, but he ended up cozying up to Russia, for obvious reasons.

Putin's propagandists never like to mention any of this or Putin's role in corrupting Ukraine's democracy, preferring to focus on Nuland's meddling in Ukraine's affairs which was neither as substantial or nefarious as Putin's.

If you think being caught with their hand in the cookie jar would every change anything, don't get your hopes up. They will continue to lie and make the same claims they always have and some people will fall for it.

This should go without saying, but obviously this will be followed by a multimedia extravaganza copied from a discord server with lots of unreliable sources to try to convince you that I'm wrong about this, but everything in this post is accurate.

I've posted this article before about Manafort's role in Ukraine. For anyone who hasn't read it, this is far worse American meddling in Ukraine's affairs than anything Nuland is claimed to have done. And Manafort continued to work with Russian intelligence during his time running Trump's campaign. Can't blame Nuland for that.
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sycasey
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 9:23a, 3/7/24
Unit2Sucks said:
Most of the hate on Nuland is because people fall for the lie that Putin and his propaganda continue to propagate.

They always frame it the exact same way by claiming that Maidan was a coup or overthrow of a "democratically elected" government. They know full well that Putin, with an assist from Paul Manafort, controlled the election and that it was far from "democratic." There are numerous articles about this and it's not even remotely debatable. Yanukovych was a Russian asset and after he was thrown out of office he went into exile in Russia. His "campaign" claimed he would take Ukraine closer to the west, which they have always wanted, but he ended up cozying up to Russia, for obvious reasons.

Putin's propagandists never like to mention any of this or Putin's role in corrupting Ukraine's democracy, preferring to focus on Nuland's meddling in Ukraine's affairs which was neither as substantial or nefarious as Putin's.

If you think being caught with their hand in the cookie jar would every change anything, don't get your hopes up. They will continue to lie and make the same claims they always have and some people will fall for it.

This should go without saying, but obviously this will be followed by a multimedia extravaganza copied from a discord server with lots of unreliable sources to try to convince you that I'm wrong about this, but everything in this post is accurate.

I've posted this article before about Manafort's role in Ukraine. For anyone who hasn't read it, this is far worse American meddling in Ukraine's affairs than anything Nuland is claimed to have done. And Manafort continued to work with Russian intelligence during his time running Trump's campaign. Can't blame Nuland for that.
Basically this. Sure, you can point out the many examples of the US promoting overthrows or regime changes in other countries (note that most of these are in our own hemisphere), and yes that is bad.

But you can also produce a similarly long list of examples of RUSSIA doing all of that and more with countries near its own borders, like Ukraine. If the contest is over which superpower did the most to meddle in Ukrainian politics before this war, there's no question that Russia is far and away the winner. But of course the Putin propagandists will leave all of that out and focus on Victoria Nuland.
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Unit2Sucks
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2:27p, 3/7/24
Looks like the shills won't need to rely on Russian state media Twitter accounts any more like LordBebo/Sprinter/OSINT defender/etc. any more, Russia has been rolling out "local news" in the US.


Zaluzhni is now Ukraine's ambassador to the UK. Unlike Russia, he didn't fall our of a window or drink tea when he was separated from his military role.


More great news for Russia, Sweden is officially in NATO.


I mentioned Russia's recent threats against Armenia a few days ago.


And of course, Russia tried to kill Zelensky and Greece's PM.

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oski003
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 4:22p, 3/7/24
Unit2Sucks said:
Looks like the shills won't need to rely on Russian state media Twitter accounts any more like LordBebo/Sprinter/OSINT defender/etc. any more, Russia has been rolling out "local news" in the US.


Zaluzhni is now Ukraine's ambassador to the UK. Unlike Russia, he didn't fall our of a window or drink tea when he was separated from his military role.


More great news for Russia, Sweden is officially in NATO.


I mentioned Russia's recent threats against Armenia a few days ago.


And of course, Russia tried to kill Zelensky and Greece's PM.



When I read the first sentence, I thought you were going to stop shilling for NATO and start reporting accurate news.


Surprisingly Weak Ukrainian Defenses Help Russian Advance

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/02/world/europe/ukraine-defenses-avdiivka.html



Rubio, however, said it is important to look at the "reality" of Ukraine's size and ability in comparison to Russia.

"We have the reality of it is that Ukraine is small compared to Russia in terms of size and its ability to bring scale, its ability to force, conscript people… I'm just being honest," he said. "You know, in the past, I have tried not to talk about this publicly because I thought it undermined the leverage that Ukraine had, but now it's the
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/senate/4504790-rubio-says-theres-no-way-russia-takes-all-of-ukraine/amp/


Few Americans want US more involved in current wars in Ukraine and Gaza, AP-NORC poll finds

https://apnews.com/article/israel-russia-ukraine-american-war-94404b3269a1effc8d94482a36387657
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bearister
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4:44p, 3/7/24
Democrats launch SpaceX probe over Russian use of Starlink satellites


https://www.axios.com/2024/03/07/senate-democrats-space-x-investigation-starlink
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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Unit2Sucks
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8:08p, 3/7/24
What does desperation look like? Declaring a chess player and democracy advocate a terrorist is a start.



But what's even worse is that Victoria Nuland has done it again. This time she made Putin attempt a coup in Moldova. France is going to try to help but we all know that's Nuland architecting another war that poor hapless Russians are going to be forced to fight. Moldova's PM Maia Sandu announced an agreement with France today to help protect Moldova against further Russian aggression.
Quote:
Speaking before she left for Paris, Sandu said that "Moscow wants to destabilize the situation in Moldova, Moscow want to intimidate Moldova's citizens, especially since this year we may have a referendum on Moldova joining the EU -- at least that is my proposal and I hope Moldova's parliament will back it."

The pro-Western Sandu, under whom Moldova made an abrupt U-turn from Russia to Europe, is up for reelection later this year after handing an upset defeat to Moscow-backed incumbent Igor Dodon in 2020.

She said that militarily, Moldova is being shielded from a potential Russian attack by its eastern neighbor, Ukraine, which has been fighting Russia's aggression for the past two years.

"Moscow has no way of reaching Moldova, first of all because Ukraine is our shield, and Ukraine is resisting [Russia's aggression] and will keep resisting. And secondly because Moldova has powerful friends and has chosen to be on the side of the free world," Sandu said.

Before the visit, the French presidency said in a statement, providing further details, that France will reiterate its support "for the independence, sovereignty and security of the Republic of Moldova, in the context of Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine."




This is a start but not nearly enough.

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bear2034
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10:44p, 3/7/24
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Unit2Sucks
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11:09a, 3/8/24
I guess Blinken isn't following the right Russian propagandists and hasn't realized that Russia's losses make it stronger.


This is an interesting development. Seems Macron is getting serious but unclear why that is happening.




Taking out Russian A-50 (AWACS) has paid off.


These ladies don't understand that Russian deployment of sexual violence makes Russia stronger. It's pretty obvious if you listen to Putin's propagandists.



Russian vatniks don't seem to realize they won the war when they took Avdiivka.


For the lols

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oski003
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 11:56a, 3/8/24
Unit2Sucks said:
I guess Blinken isn't following the right Russian propagandists and hasn't realized that Russia's losses make it stronger.


This is an interesting development. Seems Macron is getting serious but unclear why that is happening.




Taking out Russian A-50 (AWACS) has paid off.


These ladies don't understand that Russian deployment of sexual violence makes Russia stronger. It's pretty obvious if you listen to Putin's propagandists.



Russian vatniks don't seem to realize they won the war when they took Avdiivka.


For the lols



"This is an interesting development. Seems Macron is getting serious but unclear why that is happening."

Yes, Macron is very worried because Ukraine does not have strong fortified defensive positions behind Avdiivka. He feels Ukraine is vulnerable to losing quite a bit of land now that Avdiivka has fallen to Russia. I certainly enjoy that you could not give this development your shill spin and were left firing without ammunition.
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sycasey
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In reply to oski003 • 12:27p, 3/8/24
oski003 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
I guess Blinken isn't following the right Russian propagandists and hasn't realized that Russia's losses make it stronger.


This is an interesting development. Seems Macron is getting serious but unclear why that is happening.




Taking out Russian A-50 (AWACS) has paid off.


These ladies don't understand that Russian deployment of sexual violence makes Russia stronger. It's pretty obvious if you listen to Putin's propagandists.



Russian vatniks don't seem to realize they won the war when they took Avdiivka.


For the lols



"This is an interesting development. Seems Macron is getting serious but unclear why that is happening."

Yes, Macron is very worried because Ukraine does not have strong fortified defensive positions behind Avdiivka. He feels Ukraine is vulnerable to losing quite a bit of land now that Avdiivka has fallen to Russia. I certainly enjoy that you could not give this development your shill spin and were left firing without ammunition.

I agree, the US and everyone else needs to step up with assistance to Ukraine now.
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Cal88
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In reply to oski003 • 12:31p, 3/8/24
oski003 said:
Unit2Sucks said:

This is an interesting development. Seems Macron is getting serious but unclear why that is happening.


Taking out Russian A-50 (AWACS) has paid off.



"This is an interesting development. Seems Macron is getting serious but unclear why that is happening."

Yes, Macron is very worried because Ukraine does not have strong fortified defensive positions behind Avdiivka. He feels Ukraine is vulnerable to losing quite a bit of land now that Avdiivka has fallen to Russia. I certainly enjoy that you could not give this development your shill spin and were left firing without ammunition.


Exactly, Macron is stepping up the rhetoric due to Ukrainian positions weakening across the frontline.

As well, Russia killed about 70 French and French Foreign Legion soldiers and injured 100+ in a targeted missile attack on Kharkov last month.

There is zero will among the French military or the general public to fight against Russia in Ukraine, Macron is just posturing. He is the most hated French president in the entire modern history of the country, he cannot show up in public without being aggressively heckled, and escalating this NATO proxy war is not going to help him there.

Quote:
I guess Blinken isn't following the right Russian propagandists and hasn't realized that Russia's losses make it stronger.


Those are the people who fed you lies about Iraq and Afghanistan for decades, at this point only 'true believers' like you are still drinking the Koolaid,

Quote:
Russian vatniks don't seem to realize they won the war when they took Avdiivka.


Perfect sample of war propaganda, selling the idea to the true believers that Russia, which has had Avdiivka surrounded on 3 sides and its main supply routes under fire control for almost half a year and outfired the Ukrainian by nearly 10 to 1, has incurred heavier losses than Ukraine did.

U2S' statement of the Russians reducing their FAB guided gliding bombs is false, as confirmed by one of the rare serious pro-Ukrainian sources:


Also, the news tidbits in U2S' firehose hardly ever materialize:


The Czechs will have problems delivering even a fraction of the amount announced 2 or 3 years from now, after the war will be settled.

Quote:
These ladies don't understand that Russian deployment of sexual violence makes Russia stronger. It's pretty obvious if you listen to Putin's propagandists.


The storyboarding is getting sloppier all the time. Perhaps the scriptwriters in Kyiv have been spending lots of time coming out of hibernation, spring fever around the Kyiv cafes.

Kyiv is pushing womyn's rights while throwing tens of thousands of women into the meat grinder frontlines, as the men shanghaied off their streets are getting scarcer all the time:

Ukrainian men trying to flee the Zelensky regime meat grinder got caught at the border:
Quote:
Nobody wanted to die for Zelensky, Ursula and Biden

Ukrainian border guards caught 34 men of conscription age attempting to flee from Ukraine. Each of them reportedly paid 10,000






Kyiv gang pressing getting more creative all the time:




Forced conscription in Ukraine, part 7,392




This might be the best Ukrainian forced conscription video this year, Lada fights back:


To the last Ukrainian.


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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to sycasey • 12:42p, 3/8/24
sycasey said:


I agree, the US and everyone else needs to step up with assistance to Ukraine now.


Time for congress to maneuver around Moscow Mike's obstruction and for Biden to use his EDA (excess defense articles) power to send more obsolete munitions to help Ukraine. Will save us the cost of having to continue to warehouse decades-old gear that we will never use.

Unfortunately, Biden has been far too conciliatory toward the pathetic pro-Russian right wing in this country and the people who wrongly believed that international support would cause Putin to escalate. We should have authorized F-16s 12 months earlier and we shouldn't be holding other people back from giving. It's too late for a number of cities in Ukraine which have been destroyed and civilians who have died or had their lives destroyed under Putin's attack, but there may still be benefits in allowing Ukrainians to continue to defend themselves. Europe certainly thinks so.
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Cal88
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 12:59p, 3/8/24
Unit2Sucks said:
sycasey said:


I agree, the US and everyone else needs to step up with assistance to Ukraine now.


Time for congress to maneuver around Moscow Mike's obstruction and for Biden to use his EDA (excess defense articles) power to send more obsolete munitions to help Ukraine. Will save us the cost of having to continue to warehouse decades-old gear that we will never use.

Unfortunately, Biden has been far too conciliatory toward the pathetic pro-Russian right wing in this country and the people who wrongly believed that international support would cause Putin to escalate. We should have authorized F-16s 12 months earlier and we shouldn't be holding other people back from giving. It's too late for a number of cities in Ukraine which have been destroyed and civilians who have died or had their lives destroyed under Putin's attack, but there may still be benefits in allowing Ukrainians to continue to defend themselves. Europe certainly thinks so.

Europe doesn't like:

1- Its gas pipelines being blown up by its big brother ally, who has been charging them 5x as much for the replacement product.

2- Getting used in a massive proxy war and bloody geopolitical ploy that is draining their ailing economies.

3- Tourists going around town in flip flops.
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oski003
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In reply to Cal88 • 1:06p, 3/8/24
Cal88 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
sycasey said:


I agree, the US and everyone else needs to step up with assistance to Ukraine now.


Time for congress to maneuver around Moscow Mike's obstruction and for Biden to use his EDA (excess defense articles) power to send more obsolete munitions to help Ukraine. Will save us the cost of having to continue to warehouse decades-old gear that we will never use.

Unfortunately, Biden has been far too conciliatory toward the pathetic pro-Russian right wing in this country and the people who wrongly believed that international support would cause Putin to escalate. We should have authorized F-16s 12 months earlier and we shouldn't be holding other people back from giving. It's too late for a number of cities in Ukraine which have been destroyed and civilians who have died or had their lives destroyed under Putin's attack, but there may still be benefits in allowing Ukrainians to continue to defend themselves. Europe certainly thinks so.

Europe doesn't like:

1- Its gas pipelines being blown up by its big brother ally, who has been charging them 5x as much for the replacement product.

2- Getting used in a massive proxy war and bloody geopolitical ploy that is draining their ailing economies.

3- Tourists going around town in flip flops.


Poland definitely doesn't want Russia on its border, based on their contributions to Ukraine's defense as a portion of their GDP.
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Cal88
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In reply to oski003 • 1:23p, 3/8/24
oski003 said:
Cal88 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
sycasey said:


I agree, the US and everyone else needs to step up with assistance to Ukraine now.


Time for congress to maneuver around Moscow Mike's obstruction and for Biden to use his EDA (excess defense articles) power to send more obsolete munitions to help Ukraine. Will save us the cost of having to continue to warehouse decades-old gear that we will never use.

Unfortunately, Biden has been far too conciliatory toward the pathetic pro-Russian right wing in this country and the people who wrongly believed that international support would cause Putin to escalate. We should have authorized F-16s 12 months earlier and we shouldn't be holding other people back from giving. It's too late for a number of cities in Ukraine which have been destroyed and civilians who have died or had their lives destroyed under Putin's attack, but there may still be benefits in allowing Ukrainians to continue to defend themselves. Europe certainly thinks so.

Europe doesn't like:

1- Its gas pipelines being blown up by its big brother ally, who has been charging them 5x as much for the replacement product.

2- Getting used in a massive proxy war and bloody geopolitical ploy that is draining their ailing economies.

3- Tourists going around town in flip flops.


Poland definitely doesn't want Russia on its border, based on their contributions to Ukraine's defense as a portion of their GDP.

The Poles and Balts have had their centuries-old beef with Russia and have been dragging the rest of Europe into this war. They have not learned how to live with their big neighbor.

In western Europe, those centuries-old national feuds have long been settled and forgotten. Culturally evolved countries like France, Germany or England settle their national feuds on soccer and rugby fields. Poland, Latvia etc on the other hand are still living in the 20th century - and dragging the rest of Europe into a very bad scene.
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Unit2Sucks
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6:22p, 3/8/24
Trump would call this smart.


I am shocked to hear that Russia might not be treating its soldiers well. In the greatest country on earth, one that has only gotten stronger 750 days into its 3-day war, how could this possibly be true?



If only former Soviet republics realized how much they want to be under Putin's thumb. They just need to believe the shills.



Estonia helping.


Is this person a BI OT poster?

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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 1:15a, 3/9/24
Cal88 said:
oski003 said:
Cal88 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
sycasey said:


I agree, the US and everyone else needs to step up with assistance to Ukraine now.


Time for congress to maneuver around Moscow Mike's obstruction and for Biden to use his EDA (excess defense articles) power to send more obsolete munitions to help Ukraine. Will save us the cost of having to continue to warehouse decades-old gear that we will never use.

Unfortunately, Biden has been far too conciliatory toward the pathetic pro-Russian right wing in this country and the people who wrongly believed that international support would cause Putin to escalate. We should have authorized F-16s 12 months earlier and we shouldn't be holding other people back from giving. It's too late for a number of cities in Ukraine which have been destroyed and civilians who have died or had their lives destroyed under Putin's attack, but there may still be benefits in allowing Ukrainians to continue to defend themselves. Europe certainly thinks so.

Europe doesn't like:

1- Its gas pipelines being blown up by its big brother ally, who has been charging them 5x as much for the replacement product.

2- Getting used in a massive proxy war and bloody geopolitical ploy that is draining their ailing economies.

3- Tourists going around town in flip flops.


Poland definitely doesn't want Russia on its border, based on their contributions to Ukraine's defense as a portion of their GDP.

The Poles and Balts have had their centuries-old beef with Russia and have been dragging the rest of Europe into this war. They have not learned how to live with their big neighbor.

In western Europe, those centuries-old national feuds have long been settled and forgotten. Culturally evolved countries like France, Germany or England settle their national feuds on soccer and rugby fields. Poland, Latvia etc on the other hand are still living in the 20th century - and dragging the rest of Europe into a very bad scene.

In other words:

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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 4:45p, 3/9/24
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
oski003 said:
Cal88 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
sycasey said:


I agree, the US and everyone else needs to step up with assistance to Ukraine now.


Time for congress to maneuver around Moscow Mike's obstruction and for Biden to use his EDA (excess defense articles) power to send more obsolete munitions to help Ukraine. Will save us the cost of having to continue to warehouse decades-old gear that we will never use.

Unfortunately, Biden has been far too conciliatory toward the pathetic pro-Russian right wing in this country and the people who wrongly believed that international support would cause Putin to escalate. We should have authorized F-16s 12 months earlier and we shouldn't be holding other people back from giving. It's too late for a number of cities in Ukraine which have been destroyed and civilians who have died or had their lives destroyed under Putin's attack, but there may still be benefits in allowing Ukrainians to continue to defend themselves. Europe certainly thinks so.

Europe doesn't like:

1- Its gas pipelines being blown up by its big brother ally, who has been charging them 5x as much for the replacement product.

2- Getting used in a massive proxy war and bloody geopolitical ploy that is draining their ailing economies.

3- Tourists going around town in flip flops.


Poland definitely doesn't want Russia on its border, based on their contributions to Ukraine's defense as a portion of their GDP.

The Poles and Balts have had their centuries-old beef with Russia and have been dragging the rest of Europe into this war. They have not learned how to live with their big neighbor.

In western Europe, those centuries-old national feuds have long been settled and forgotten. Culturally evolved countries like France, Germany or England settle their national feuds on soccer and rugby fields. Poland, Latvia etc on the other hand are still living in the 20th century - and dragging the rest of Europe into a very bad scene.

In other words:


Hungary and Slovakia don't dislike Russia, they are the adults in the EE room. Other countries like Poland and Latvia are still mired in centuries-old nationalistic bad blood, the kind of antagonism that has triggered world wars and is threatening to do so again.

https://www.politico.eu/article/slovakia-prime-minister-robert-fico-ukraine-cede-territory-russia-moscow-invasion-nato-entry/

In other news, former head of the Ukraine military Zaluzhny was paid off $53 million to be exiled out of Ukraine, the poorest country in Europe, in order to stave off his taking over the country in a military coup.


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Unit2Sucks
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5:15p, 3/9/24
Nothing groundbreaking, but good overview of how Putin uses Western free speech protections to his advantage in spreading propaganda. And since Russians don't have free speech rights, he doesn't have to worry about counter punches.


Quote:
For Putin's Russia, "information-psychological warfare"as a Russian military textbook calls itis intended to "erode the morale and psychological spirit" of an enemy population. A central aspect of a wider war against the West, it is conducted online through relentless barrages of fake, real, and misrepresented news, through a cultivated network of witting and unwitting shills such as Carlson. The Kremlin's messaging has an extraordinary reach: In the first year of the Ukraine war alone, posts by Kremlin-linked accounts were viewed at least 16 billion times by Westerners. Every one of those views is part of a full-spectrum attack against the West designed not just to undermine support for Ukraine, but to actively damage Western democratic systems.
Quote:
Yet despite abundant examples of Russian narratives showing up in Western debates, there is almost no serious discussion within governments or among the public about how to end Russia's information war on the West. Many in the West worry that interfering online will lead them down the slippery slope of repressing free speech. Perhaps they cannot see the conceptual link between information war and military warand refuse to recognize that the West is already at war with Russia, even if that war is not a military one.
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oski003
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 5:19p, 3/9/24
Unit2Sucks said:
Nothing groundbreaking, but good overview of how Russia uses Western free speech protections to his advantage in spreading propaganda. And since Russians don't have free speech rights, he doesn't have to worry about counter punches.


Quote:
For Putin's Russia, "information-psychological warfare"as a Russian military textbook calls itis intended to "erode the morale and psychological spirit" of an enemy population. A central aspect of a wider war against the West, it is conducted online through relentless barrages of fake, real, and misrepresented news, through a cultivated network of witting and unwitting shills such as Carlson. The Kremlin's messaging has an extraordinary reach: In the first year of the Ukraine war alone, posts by Kremlin-linked accounts were viewed at least 16 billion times by Westerners. Every one of those views is part of a full-spectrum attack against the West designed not just to undermine support for Ukraine, but to actively damage Western democratic systems.
Quote:
Yet despite abundant examples of Russian narratives showing up in Western debates, there is almost no serious discussion within governments or among the public about how to end Russia's information war on the West. Many in the West worry that interfering online will lead them down the slippery slope of repressing free speech. Perhaps they cannot see the conceptual link between information war and military warand refuse to recognize that the West is already at war with Russia, even if that war is not a military one.


Actually, the former head of the Ukraine military being paid off $53 million to be exiled out of Ukraine, the poorest country in Europe, in order to stave off his taking over the country in a military coup is pretty groundbreaking.
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Cal88
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12:23p, 3/10/24
The $53 million payment to Zaluzhny turned out to be fake news, I have jumped on that too early. It was a pretty slick production and many other usually reliable sources also fell for it.

Nevertheless, the Zaluzhny exile to London is in and of itself a big story, it reflects fears of a military coup in Kiev.
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Cal88
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 2:33p, 3/10/24
Unit2Sucks said:
Nothing groundbreaking, but good overview of how Putin uses Western free speech protections to his advantage in spreading propaganda. And since Russians don't have free speech rights, he doesn't have to worry about counter punches.


Quote:
For Putin's Russia, "information-psychological warfare"as a Russian military textbook calls itis intended to "erode the morale and psychological spirit" of an enemy population. A central aspect of a wider war against the West, it is conducted online through relentless barrages of fake, real, and misrepresented news, through a cultivated network of witting and unwitting shills such as Carlson. The Kremlin's messaging has an extraordinary reach: In the first year of the Ukraine war alone, posts by Kremlin-linked accounts were viewed at least 16 billion times by Westerners. Every one of those views is part of a full-spectrum attack against the West designed not just to undermine support for Ukraine, but to actively damage Western democratic systems.
Quote:
Yet despite abundant examples of Russian narratives showing up in Western debates, there is almost no serious discussion within governments or among the public about how to end Russia's information war on the West. Many in the West worry that interfering online will lead them down the slippery slope of repressing free speech. Perhaps they cannot see the conceptual link between information war and military warand refuse to recognize that the West is already at war with Russia, even if that war is not a military one.


This is the kind of establishment bull**** that gets a lot of traction among the large segment of people who still trust the MSM. There is no Russian media propaganda of note, the Russians absolutely suck at this game.

What gets smeared as "Russian propaganda" is any messaging that runs counter the prevailing MSM narrative pushing an ill-conceived and disastrous proxy war, the result of an ideologically-driven world view that is bereft of geopolitical nuance and historical understanding.

What we are starting to see now is this ideologically-driven policy getting wrecked by the reality of Ukraine being pushed into a war it cannot win, with its military starting to unravel under the weight of a long war of attrition it is ill-equipped to wage. One big turning point has been Nuland being pushed aside, as the Biden administration is now trying to manage the next phase of the war.




https://www.youtube.com/live/Ptaya7stymw?si=Zte6dBmM09-QZdyB

John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, Noam Chomsky and co are not "Russian agents", nor are they in any way useful idiots. They are at the top of the American brain trust and are not part of the MIC revolving door gravy train, advocating for a sound, moral and realistic foreign policy away from Endless War.
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oski003
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5:28p, 3/10/24
Post coup Ukraine government is mad at the Pope for encouraging peace.

According to a transcript quoted by Reuters news agency, the Pope was asked to comment on a debate between those who want Ukraine to seek a settlement with Russia - or wave the "white flag", as the interviewer put it - and those who argue that doing so would legitimise aggression.
The Pope was quoted as saying: "The strongest one is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people and has the courage of the white flag, and negotiates."
"When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you have to have the courage to negotiate," he added.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68528217
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Lets Go Brandon 18
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 7:35p, 3/10/24

https://media.tenor.com/uARaKFpSkaMAAAAC/anger-management-jack-nicholson.gif

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sycasey
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In reply to oski003 • 8:25p, 3/10/24
oski003 said:
Post coup Ukraine government is mad at the Pope for encouraging peace.

According to a transcript quoted by Reuters news agency, the Pope was asked to comment on a debate between those who want Ukraine to seek a settlement with Russia - or wave the "white flag", as the interviewer put it - and those who argue that doing so would legitimise aggression.
The Pope was quoted as saying: "The strongest one is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people and has the courage of the white flag, and negotiates."
"When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you have to have the courage to negotiate," he added.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68528217
I would also be mad if someone told me I should just give in to my invader.
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Cal88
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8:43p, 3/10/24
U Texas Econ prof James Galbraith, son of Cal's illustrious Kenneth Galbraith, lays a good rundown of why the economic sanctions on Russia backfired. Not only did they not work, but they also benefitted the Russian economy by stimulating domestic industry, along the lines of my own analysis in 2022:



Best quote of his explanation: "This is a situation in which the sanctions were imposed by one important sector of the world economy which then cut itself off from resources that it needs - and that's particularly true of Western Europe - in return for cutting Russia off from various things that Russia doesn't really need."

Second best quote: "If you go back to the period before the introduction of the sanctions [...] the Russian economy was very heavily colonized by Western firms. That was true in automobiles, it was true in aircrafts, it was true in everything from fast food restaurants to big box stores. Western firms were present all throughout the Russian economy.

A great many of them [...] either chose to exit Russia or were pressured to exit Russia after early 2022. So on what terms did they leave? Well, they were required, if they were leaving permanently, to sell their capital equipment, their factories and so forth, to let's say a Russian business which would get a loan from Russian banks or maybe have other sources of financing, at a very favorable price for the Russians. So effectively a lot of capital wealth, which was partly owned by the West, has been transferred to Russian ownership.

And you now have an economy which is moving forward and has the advantage compared to Europe of relatively low resource costs because Russia is a great producer of resources, oil and gas and fertilizer and food stuff and so forth. And so while the Europeans are paying maybe twice in Germany what they were paying for energy, the Russians are not, they're paying perhaps less than they were paying before the war.

So again I characterize the effect of the sanctions, in fact as being in certain respects a gift to the Russian economy. And this is, I think, quite different from what the authors of the sanctions expected. [...] And the essence of the situation is this would not have happened without the sanctions. You could have had the war, and it would have gone pretty much as it has gone. But the Russian government in 2022 was in no position to force the exit of Western firms. It didn't want to, wouldn't have done that. It was in no position to force its oligarchs to choose between Russia and the West. It didn't wish to do that. These choices were imposed by the West, and the results were actually, in many respects, favorable to the long-term independent development of the Russian Federation's economy."
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movielover
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9:19p, 3/10/24
CNN: Pope sparks anger after saying Ukraine should have the 'courage of the white flag' and negotiate
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movielover
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 9:53p, 3/10/24
Yoh suggest that the USA send 'old equipment' to Ukraine: I thought Biden & Blinken left "all their old gear" in Afghanistan. $70 Billion worth, minus what was destroyed.

Yes, Russia military is far stronger.

- An experienced army of 1 Million is far superior to 200K men w limited experience.
- Having reliable cheap drone technology is better than not having it.
- Perfecting multifront battles w integrated drone use is an advantage.
- Having legions of trained officers is superior.
- Having working relationships w Iran, North Korea, and others in benificial.
- Expanding their already potent manufacturing is beneficial.
- A dramatically depleted NATO is to their benefit; as is Germany de-industrializing.
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Lets Go Brandon 18
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In reply to sycasey • 10:12p, 3/10/24
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
Post coup Ukraine government is mad at the Pope for encouraging peace.

According to a transcript quoted by Reuters news agency, the Pope was asked to comment on a debate between those who want Ukraine to seek a settlement with Russia - or wave the "white flag", as the interviewer put it - and those who argue that doing so would legitimise aggression.
The Pope was quoted as saying: "The strongest one is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people and has the courage of the white flag, and negotiates."
"When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you have to have the courage to negotiate," he added.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68528217
I would also be mad if someone told me I should just give in to my invader.
You would be even madder if you ever had to pick up a rifle to show just how much Ukrainian sovereignty means to you. Brave keyboard warrior who is happy to send other people to their senseless deaths for a lost cause.
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 10:14p, 3/10/24
Unit2Sucks said:
And since Russians don't have free speech rights, he doesn't have to worry about counter punches.
More details on Russia's lack of free speech rights. Given the amount of Russian agitprop makes its way from Putin's cyber farms to the OT board of a niche college football fan site, one can only imagine how much Russians and Ukrainians must face. And don't just take my word for it - I'm sure if you fact check the stuff I ignore in this thread you will find it's full of Russian propaganda. That's why I ignore everything - it takes far more time to fact-check the shills than it does for them to cut and paste from the discord servers that their handlers feed them information on (and the Russian state media and cyber farm twitter troll accounts they love to quote).

Before Putin's propaganda army logs on, to be clear Ukraine doesn't have free speech guarantees either. In trying to combat Russian propaganda, they have limited anti-Ukrainian speech and jailed grifter propagandists like that Lira shill who died in custody. Obviously, Ukrainian suppression of speech isn't limited to putin Shills, but those are obviously the people that the shills feel more passionately about which is why the shill-sphere was up in arms over a grifter like Lira, and don't ever talk about regular Ukrainians.

Oppression of the Russian people, including jailing people for having "slava ukraine" as their wifi network name is all part of the authoritarian Putin regime - you have to make people afraid of saying the wrong thing (like in 1984) lest you risk becoming an actual democracy where people's voices matter. Along with doublethink (which is really multiplethink given how many conflicting stories the firehose of falsehoods spits out) you can see how much energy Russia invests in information warfare.

One of the big objections Putin has to NATO on his border is that most NATO countries (with obvious exceptions like Hungary) treat their citizens like citizens and not subjects. Some even have life expectancies for men above 64 years of age (having made massive gains since they were freed after the fall of the USSR). That's why so many countries who Putin and his acolytes consider to be in Putin's "sphere of influence" are arming up now and want nothing to do with Russia's authoritarian dysfunction.

Quote:
A Moscow court has sentenced a Russian university student to 10 days in jail for naming his Wi-Fi router with a pro-Ukrainian slogan, Russian media reported.

The Moscow State University student, identified by RIA as Oleg Tarasov, had changed the name of his WIFI network to "Slava Ukraine," which translates to "Glory to Ukraine" in English a nationalistic salute which has become a rallying cry during Russia's war in Ukraine, according to independent Russian Telegram news channel Ostorozhno Novosti.

The student was found guilty of propaganda and the "public display of Nazi symbols" by the Nikulinsky District Court of Moscow on Thursday, and authorities confiscated his router, state-run RIA reported.

Dissent has been effectively outlawed in Russia since Russian President Vladimir Putin launched his full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

More than 260 people are currently serving jail terms in the country for crimes related to taking an anti-war stance, according to Russian human rights group OVD-Info, which has recorded more than 20,000 detentions.

A climate of repression has only been made more apparent in recent weeks, following the death of Kremlin critic Alexey Navalny at a Russian penal colony north of the Arctic Circle in mid-February.
Expressing support for the Russian opposition figure, whose movement authorities outlawed as extremist, can be perilous.



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cbbass1
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In reply to oski003 • 12:41a, 3/11/24
oski003 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
Nothing groundbreaking, but good overview of how Russia uses Western free speech protections to his advantage in spreading propaganda. And since Russians don't have free speech rights, he doesn't have to worry about counter punches.


Quote:
For Putin's Russia, "information-psychological warfare"as a Russian military textbook calls itis intended to "erode the morale and psychological spirit" of an enemy population. A central aspect of a wider war against the West, it is conducted online through relentless barrages of fake, real, and misrepresented news, through a cultivated network of witting and unwitting shills such as Carlson. The Kremlin's messaging has an extraordinary reach: In the first year of the Ukraine war alone, posts by Kremlin-linked accounts were viewed at least 16 billion times by Westerners. Every one of those views is part of a full-spectrum attack against the West designed not just to undermine support for Ukraine, but to actively damage Western democratic systems.
Quote:
Yet despite abundant examples of Russian narratives showing up in Western debates, there is almost no serious discussion within governments or among the public about how to end Russia's information war on the West. Many in the West worry that interfering online will lead them down the slippery slope of repressing free speech. Perhaps they cannot see the conceptual link between information war and military warand refuse to recognize that the West is already at war with Russia, even if that war is not a military one.


Actually, the former head of the Ukraine military being paid off $53 million to be exiled out of Ukraine, the poorest country in Europe, in order to stave off his taking over the country in a military coup is pretty groundbreaking.
Don't forget the NDA! ;-)
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