The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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Big C
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In reply to movielover • 5:09p, 7/12/24
movielover said:
You and sycasy avoid what Putin has repeatedly demanded for at least 11 years:

1. A neutral Ukraine.

2. Given this didn't happen, and we helped plan / fund a civil war, Putin appears to be acquiring ethnically and culturally Russian areas. We'll see if he moves on Odessa.

Coincidentally or not, these areas are also the most valuable areas of Ukraine.

3. A peace deal will likely include #1. Without #1, why sign a deal?
#####

Mearsheimer and McGregor both argue that Putin doesn't want to rule hostile areas. He doesn't need the headache, land, or resources.

The Putin Haters seem oblivious to the fact that there are hardliners who make Putin look like a peacenik. I hope we don't witness their rule.

P.S. If China has soldiers in Ukraine, do we assume that Russia has or will buy weapons and ammunition from China? It appears to be another perfect match for Russia and resource-starved China.

movielover, in your knee-jerk attempt to disagree with me, you seem to be missing the fact that this is one issue where we have a fair amount of common ground. Doesn't happen too often!

Not up to me, but I would be happy to agree to never-Ukraine-in-NATO in order to get this settled.

One disagreement: If Putin "doesn't want to rule hostile areas", what does he think he was going to get if he took all of Ukraine by force (which he tried / is still trying to do)?
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movielover
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In reply to Big C • 5:18p, 7/12/24
Colonel McGregor claims he was just trying to get Zelensky's attention, that you don't conquer Kiev w 20,000 ill-equipped troops. A Ukranian couple claimed some Russian troops were in parade unis!

Not sure if McGregor is right or CYA.
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bear2034
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6:23p, 7/12/24

The fact that people clapped after Biden introduces President Putin made this even funnier.
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sycasey
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In reply to Big C • 6:35p, 7/12/24
Big C said:
One disagreement: If Putin "doesn't want to rule hostile areas", what does he think he was going to get if he took all of Ukraine by force (which he tried / is still trying to do)?
He thought they'd be greeted as liberators.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 7:49p, 7/12/24
sycasey said:
Big C said:
One disagreement: If Putin "doesn't want to rule hostile areas", what does he think he was going to get if he took all of Ukraine by force (which he tried / is still trying to do)?
He thought they'd be greeted as liberators.

They were, at least in the areas they currently occupy. The Kiev regime, which banned their language and religion, was their occupier.

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Big C
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:45p, 7/12/24
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Big C said:
One disagreement: If Putin "doesn't want to rule hostile areas", what does he think he was going to get if he took all of Ukraine by force (which he tried / is still trying to do)?
He thought they'd be greeted as liberators.

They were, at least in the areas they currently occupy. The Kiev regime, which banned their language and religion, was their occupier.


I will admit that "Ukrainians" are a lot more complex and varied than most Americans know or will ever know. And if you watch the mainstream US media, you aren't getting enlightened at all.

It's complicated.
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Zippergate
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In reply to Big C • 10:09a, 7/13/24
Exactly. Which tells you that the simple explanation for the conflict constantly pushed by the MSM and neocon uniparty is pure propaganda.
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movielover
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In reply to Zippergate • 11:36a, 7/13/24
Only in existence for three decades.
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Cal88
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7:34a, 7/17/24
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movielover
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In reply to 110 Days Til No Joe • 7:13p, 7/17/24
Revoke ALL security clearance$$$.
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Cal88
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7:17p, 7/17/24
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:23p, 7/17/24
I believe both McGregor and Ritter say there's some defense department master plan on how we win a nuclear war w Russia... that 10% or 20% of our population survives, and we're the victors.

Several Presidents have implored them and said - I need more options than nuclear Armageddon! It's insane, if true.
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movielover
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11:06p, 7/19/24
Dummy.

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Cal88
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9:38a, 7/20/24


The false promises were always deliberate to keep Ukraine fighting:
- There is endless evidence that the war was provoked, peace negotiations were sabotaged, and great efforts were made to prolong the war.
- Since the 2014 coup and purge, the US acquired and built itself Ukrainian intelligence services and a Ukrainian army to fight Russia. When will we start listening to the countless American leaders who say that this is a great war as the US can fight and weaken Russia without losing US troops. Why would the Americans / NATO want to stop the war?
- If these were our men dying in the hundreds of thousands, we would obviously have negotiated a long time ago. At least we would have maintained some diplomacy. Instead we punish any efforts to restore diplomacy and discuss peace.
- Ukrainians will be resentful toward Russia for decades. However, I predict they will also develop deep resentment toward the West after what we did to their country over the past 10+ years.
https://politico.eu/article/war-ukraine-nato-membership-nuclear-war-fight-russia-defense-75-anniversary/
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bearister
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In reply to One Term Genocide Joe • 4:11p, 7/20/24
When do you figure the break ground date is for tRump Tower Moscow? Before or after the Mediterranean resorts in Gaza and Beirut?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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movielover
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In reply to bearister • 12:56a, 7/21/24
Sources?
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Cal88
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9:23a, 7/21/24
There won't be any Trump projects in Beirut or Moscow, but Kushner being involved in real estate deals in ethnically-cleansed Gaza is a real prospect. There already is an ongoing process of stolen Palestinian property being hawked in US zionist circles.

On the Ukraine project and its fallout, from a leading NATO general:



"While Biden and his neocon principals love to brag about how they've handed Russia a grand strategic defeat in Ukraine, the people who actually have to carry out their policies see it differently.

Here's Army Gen. Christopher Cavoli, supreme allied commander Europe and commander of U.S. European Command:

"We can't be under any illusions: At the end of a conflict in Ukraine however, it concludes we are going to have a very big Russia problem, We are going to have a situation where Russia is reconstituting its force, is located on the borders of NATO, is led by largely the same people as it is right now, is convinced that we're the adversary, and is very, very angry."



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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 11:17a, 7/21/24
Russia is much stronger, now has roughly one million experienced military personnel with 300,000 in reserve.

I read a short analysis by some type of analyst group re 10,000 North Korean shipping containers sent to Russia via Vladivostok - most going to the front lines. This theoretically sends their combined manufacturing capabilities through the roof, and NK gets needed food supplies.

Is India aiding anybody?
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Cal88
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11:45a, 7/21/24
Pakistan has sent hundreds of thousands of shells to Ukraine last year, but that supply and those of many other countries that have supplied Ukraine (Morocco, Egypt etc) is now exhausted.

India mainly supports Russia by buying its oil, which it refines and resells to Europe.
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bear2034
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In reply to bearister • 4:54p, 7/21/24
bearister said:
When do you figure the break ground date is for tRump Tower Moscow? Before or after the Mediterranean resorts in Gaza and Beirut?
No one knows. But maybe Kamala does.

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golden sloth
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6:38p, 7/21/24
I find it amazing that the same posters that said it was futile for Ukraine to defend themselves, blamed the US for Russia's invasion, and claim Russia has the authority to deny Ukraine the right to it's own sovereignty and declared Ukraine would be defeated in mere months after the invasion, still continue to post as if all the declarations they made did not fail to actually happen.
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movielover
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In reply to golden sloth • 7:11p, 7/21/24
[blamed the US for Russia's invasion]

Yes, we played a major role.

[and claim Russia has the authority to deny Ukraine the right to it's own sovereignty]

Specifically putting military power NATO on its doorstep is an existential threat. Correct.

We didn't allow the USSR in Cuba. Same thing.

[ and declared Ukraine would be defeated in mere months after the invasion,]

I haven't read that here.

[still continue to post as if all the declarations they made failed to actually happen.]

Huh?
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golden sloth
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In reply to movielover • 7:38p, 7/21/24
movielover said:


[ and declared Ukraine would be defeated in mere months after the invasion,]

I haven't read that here.



I know, you simply dont read.
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oski003
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In reply to golden sloth • 7:59p, 7/21/24
golden sloth said:
movielover said:


[ and declared Ukraine would be defeated in mere months after the invasion,]

I haven't read that here.



I know, you simply dont read.


That was said by a few posters during the initial march to Kyiv. It is very sad that the pro NATO warhawks who have been repeatedly wrong about the war every single month since then use that as proof that the other side got things wrong.
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movielover
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In reply to oski003 • 8:02p, 7/21/24
Apparently Russia has a history of starting slow, and then gearing up. Their working w North Korea appears to be a lose-lose-lose for the West.
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sycasey
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In reply to oski003 • 8:49p, 7/21/24
oski003 said:
golden sloth said:
movielover said:


[ and declared Ukraine would be defeated in mere months after the invasion,]

I haven't read that here.



I know, you simply dont read.


That was said by a few posters during the initial march to Kyiv. It is very sad that the pro NATO warhawks who have been repeatedly wrong about the war every single month since then use that as proof that the other side got things wrong.

The same people also said Russia wouldn't invade in the first place.
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movielover
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8:45a, 7/22/24
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Zippergate
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12:16p, 7/22/24
I'm sure this is just a routine drill and has nothing to do with NATO gearing up for war.
(What's the over-under on how long these bombers would last in a modern war? I set the line at 12 minutes)

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movielover
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In reply to Zippergate • 12:28p, 7/22/24
Ridiculous.
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movielover
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1:36p, 7/22/24
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Cal88
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In reply to movielover • 1:46p, 7/22/24
movielover said:


That's the reason for the extra motivation from NATO:



Also some urgency in anticipation of a possible/likely Trump presidency, they have less than 6 months left to stem the tide.
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Zippergate
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In reply to Cal88 • 5:10p, 7/22/24
Stem the tide? Maybe a better phrase would be "maximize their bargaining position" or "finish the job."
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movielover
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11:08a, 7/23/24
Big news.

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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 12:22p, 7/23/24
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
golden sloth said:
movielover said:


[ and declared Ukraine would be defeated in mere months after the invasion,]

I haven't read that here.



I know, you simply dont read.


That was said by a few posters during the initial march to Kyiv. It is very sad that the pro NATO warhawks who have been repeatedly wrong about the war every single month since then use that as proof that the other side got things wrong.

The same people also said Russia wouldn't invade in the first place.

This is your level of understanding of geopolitics related to this topic:

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Zippergate
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In reply to Cal88 • 12:34p, 7/23/24
Unburdened by what is?
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