NYT also admits that Ukraine is a proxy war whose goal is to weaken Russia. This was banned as a “Putin talking point” in legacy media not long ago. Now the truth comes out. pic.twitter.com/dCkPs4pAie

— David Sacks (@DavidSacks) November 17, 2024

NYT admits that Ukraine is a proxy war for the U.S. whose goal is to weaken Russia.

FAFO

Probably unrelated! pic.twitter.com/cOT34ayyRV

— Jack Poso 🇺🇸 (@JackPosobiec) November 18, 2024

sycasey said:

---

bear2034 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Ukraine can attack their invaders as much as they want, as far as I'm concerned.

---

Good thing Ukraine doesn't own nukes!

---

If they did, they wouldn't have been invaded.

---

- if they didn't build up a proxy army, they wouldn't see a SMO
- if they were neutral, ditto
- if they honored Minsk I, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they honored Minsk II, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they negotiated w Putin before the SMO, they likely wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they abided by the signed treaty in Istanbul, they'd still be intact

FAFO

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

sycasey said:

---

bear2034 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Ukraine can attack their invaders as much as they want, as far as I'm concerned.

---

Good thing Ukraine doesn't own nukes!

---

If they did, they wouldn't have been invaded.

---

- if they didn't build up a proxy army, they wouldn't see a SMO
- if they were neutral, ditto
- if they honored Minsk I, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they honored Minsk II, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they negotiated w Putin before the SMO, they likely wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they abided by the signed treaty in Istanbul, they'd still be intact

FAFO

---

-If Russia didn't invade another country, there would be no war

FAFO

---

Unfortunately it is the average Ukrainian conscript, who today is being forcefully shipped to the front, that is doing almost all of the "finding out". And it is NATO and the Kiev regime that have been F.A.

Herein lies the tragedy of this war.

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

sycasey said:

---

bear2034 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Ukraine can attack their invaders as much as they want, as far as I'm concerned.

---

Good thing Ukraine doesn't own nukes!

---

If they did, they wouldn't have been invaded.

---

- if they didn't build up a proxy army, they wouldn't see a SMO
- if they were neutral, ditto
- if they honored Minsk I, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they honored Minsk II, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they negotiated w Putin before the SMO, they likely wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they abided by the signed treaty in Istanbul, they'd still be intact

FAFO

---

-If Russia didn't invade another country, there would be no war

FAFO

---

Unfortunately it is the average Ukrainian conscript, who today is being forcefully shipped to the front, that is doing almost all of the "finding out". And it is NATO and the Kiev regime that have been F.A.

Herein lies the tragedy of this war.

---

I know, it really is a shame that Putin chose to invade. Hopefully they can find a way to end it.

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

sycasey said:

---

bear2034 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Ukraine can attack their invaders as much as they want, as far as I'm concerned.

---

Good thing Ukraine doesn't own nukes!

---

If they did, they wouldn't have been invaded.

---

- if they didn't build up a proxy army, they wouldn't see a SMO
- if they were neutral, ditto
- if they honored Minsk I, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they honored Minsk II, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they negotiated w Putin before the SMO, they likely wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they abided by the signed treaty in Istanbul, they'd still be intact

FAFO

---

-If Russia didn't invade another country, there would be no war

FAFO

---

Unfortunately it is the average Ukrainian conscript, who today is being forcefully shipped to the front, that is doing almost all of the "finding out". And it is NATO and the Kiev regime that have been F.A.

Herein lies the tragedy of this war.

---

I know, it really is a shame that Putin chose to invade. Hopefully they can find a way to end it.

---

- if they didn't build up a proxy army, they wouldn't see a SMO
- if they were neutral, ditto
- if they honored Minsk I, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they honored Minsk II, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they negotiated w Putin before the SMO, they likely wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they abided by the signed treaty in Istanbul, they'd still be intact

lather, rinse, repeat.

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

sycasey said:

---

bear2034 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Ukraine can attack their invaders as much as they want, as far as I'm concerned.

---

Good thing Ukraine doesn't own nukes!

---

If they did, they wouldn't have been invaded.

---

- if they didn't build up a proxy army, they wouldn't see a SMO
- if they were neutral, ditto
- if they honored Minsk I, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they honored Minsk II, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they negotiated w Putin before the SMO, they likely wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they abided by the signed treaty in Istanbul, they'd still be intact

FAFO

---

-If Russia didn't invade another country, there would be no war

FAFO

---

Unfortunately it is the average Ukrainian conscript, who today is being forcefully shipped to the front, that is doing almost all of the "finding out". And it is NATO and the Kiev regime that have been F.A.

Herein lies the tragedy of this war.

---

I know, it really is a shame that Putin chose to invade. Hopefully they can find a way to end it.

---

- if they didn't build up a proxy army, they wouldn't see a SMO
- if they were neutral, ditto
- if they honored Minsk I, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they honored Minsk II, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they negotiated w Putin before the SMO, they likely wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they abided by the signed treaty in Istanbul, they'd still be intact

lather, rinse, repeat.

---

I know this discussion will just lead in the same circles, so I'll leave off here. There's still nothing here that requires a military invasion like we've seen. That's still a choice.

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

sycasey said:

---

bear2034 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Ukraine can attack their invaders as much as they want, as far as I'm concerned.

---

Good thing Ukraine doesn't own nukes!

---

If they did, they wouldn't have been invaded.

---

- if they didn't build up a proxy army, they wouldn't see a SMO
- if they were neutral, ditto
- if they honored Minsk I, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they honored Minsk II, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they negotiated w Putin before the SMO, they likely wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they abided by the signed treaty in Istanbul, they'd still be intact

FAFO

---

-If Russia didn't invade another country, there would be no war

FAFO

---

Unfortunately it is the average Ukrainian conscript, who today is being forcefully shipped to the front, that is doing almost all of the "finding out". And it is NATO and the Kiev regime that have been F.A.

Herein lies the tragedy of this war.

---

I know, it really is a shame that Putin chose to invade. Hopefully they can find a way to end it.

---

- if they didn't build up a proxy army, they wouldn't see a SMO
- if they were neutral, ditto
- if they honored Minsk I, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they honored Minsk II, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they negotiated w Putin before the SMO, they likely wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they abided by the signed treaty in Istanbul, they'd still be intact

lather, rinse, repeat.

---

I know this discussion will just lead in the same circles, so I'll leave off here. There's still nothing here that requires a military invasion like we've seen. That's still a choice.

---

There are 3 things that would have even individually triggered a Russian invasion:

-Russia being booted out of Crimea
-Russian-Ukrainians being routed and oppressed by the Kiev nationalists in the civil war started in 2014
-A hostile government next door acquiring WMDs and being armed to the gills by NATO

The Zelensky govt fulfilled all three conditions.

And of course, NATO knew that the Russians would intervene - receipts provided by Wikileaks:

Those that don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

sycasey said:

---

bear2034 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Ukraine can attack their invaders as much as they want, as far as I'm concerned.

---

Good thing Ukraine doesn't own nukes!

---

If they did, they wouldn't have been invaded.

---

- if they didn't build up a proxy army, they wouldn't see a SMO
- if they were neutral, ditto
- if they honored Minsk I, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they honored Minsk II, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they negotiated w Putin before the SMO, they likely wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they abided by the signed treaty in Istanbul, they'd still be intact

FAFO

---

-If Russia didn't invade another country, there would be no war

FAFO

---

Unfortunately it is the average Ukrainian conscript, who today is being forcefully shipped to the front, that is doing almost all of the "finding out". And it is NATO and the Kiev regime that have been F.A.

Herein lies the tragedy of this war.

---

I know, it really is a shame that Putin chose to invade. Hopefully they can find a way to end it.

---

- if they didn't build up a proxy army, they wouldn't see a SMO
- if they were neutral, ditto
- if they honored Minsk I, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they honored Minsk II, they wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they negotiated w Putin before the SMO, they likely wouldn't have seen a SMO
- if they abided by the signed treaty in Istanbul, they'd still be intact

lather, rinse, repeat.

---

I know this discussion will just lead in the same circles, so I'll leave off here. There's still nothing here that requires a military invasion like we've seen. That's still a choice.

---

There are 3 things that would have even individually triggered a Russian invasion:

-Russia being booted out of Crimea
-Russian-Ukrainians being routed and oppressed by the Kiev nationalists in the civil war started in 2014
-A hostile government next door acquiring WMDs and being armed to the gills by NATO

---

You know this is all ridiculous, right? Another nation doing its own thing within its own borders requires a military invasion? That's insane. Russia is the problem here.

Even if everything the rabid Russia haters say is true about the ultimate causes of the conflict, how exactly does the latest action by Biden's handlers improve Ukraine's odds of expelling Russia....unless NATO is officially drawn into the conflict? This is THE QUESTION of the day.

What exactly is at stake in Ukraine for the average American? How exactly is American security enhanced by a broader conflict with Russia? Are we sure that the leaders who have been wrong at every step of the way in this conflict really have things under control?

Biden decision to allow #Ukraine to use ATACMS to strike within Russia is a day late and a dollar short. Ukraine doesn't have enough of a stockpile to meaningfully impact the course of the war. pic.twitter.com/lslLZ4wsss

— CEO Technician (@CEOTechnician) November 18, 2024

It is really....what's the word I'm looking for? Evil. It is evil of Biden to refuse this type of escalation for 4 years then allow it just to tie Trump's hands.

I have been all for Ukraine being able to attack the aggressor anywhere at any time. But not like this.

And now Biden changes course to approve delivery of anti-personnel mines to Ukraine. He is really doing what he can to escalate this war on Trump's watch. This is disgusting.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

And now Biden changes course to approve delivery of anti-personnel mines to Ukraine. He is really doing what he can to escalate this war on Trump's watch. This is disgusting.

---

It's sort of like how Trump implemented the withdrawal from Afghanistan to be done during Biden's watch. Note: I'm not defending how Biden botched the withdrawal, just pointing out how one departing administration will try to force it's goals to be pursued even after their time as President ends. It's how the game is played.

---

Trump didn't implement the withdrawal of Afghanistan to be done on Biden's watch. Despite the fact that Biden wears diapers, he is a big boy and could have made his own choices on Afghanistan. Firing US missiles from Ukraine into Russia is a different story altogether. There may be no going back from this escalation.

This is bad. NATO provides the logistical targeting.

FWIW, Russia is allegedly shutting down internal travel into the country.

Biden / Deep State also forgiving loans to Ukraine, and funneling them anything they can pre-Trump.

Be assured the IC is monitoring all President Trump communications and his attempts to stop war.

🚨BREAKING: Putin has agreed to peace talks with Ukraine as long as Trump leads them.

He will hold true to his campaign promise and bring peace to the world!

— Gunther Eagleman™ (@GuntherEagleman) November 20, 2024

They're trying to create a war Trump can't end.

bear2034 said:

---

They're trying to create a war Trump can't end.

---

It's really sick. Biden isn't in control.

Is this Victoria Nuland, Jake Sullivan, and the MIC?

Colonel McGregor says we've spent $15 Trillion on senseless wars since 2000.

USA Today: Biden will give Ukraine controversial land mines in policy shift

"The Biden administration will for the first time give Ukraine antipersonnel land mines, controversial weapons condemned by arms control groups for their high rates of civilian death and injury."

"...Antipersonnel land mines are banned by a treaty signed by more than 160 countries, but the U.S. and Russia aren't signatories. Arms control and human rights groups say they cause disproportionately high civilian casualties, and some can endanger civilians years after a conflict ends."

Sullivan / Nuland?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/11/20/ukraine-land-mines-russia-war-biden/76447009007/

SHOCK REPORT US embassy in Kiev shredding paper and destroying files as personnel evacuate hastily according to sources on the ground 'It's like they are leaving for good,' said a local.

US SHUTS KIEV EMBASSY Facility closed over fears of Russian retaliation after Biden administration okayed use of long range missiles by the Ukrainian military. [Developing]

BARACK'S REVENGE Trusted sources say Obama 'okayed' use of US missiles to hit deep inside Russia in a giant escalation most analysts say will mean WWIII. 'He's basically giving the country the middle finger for having elected Trump.

https://nitter.poast.org/isource_news

Well, this is consistent with my take that the long range missiles were to shore up any bargaining chips Ukraine has.

Huh? 5 of the six missiles were shot down. This is supposedly the best the US has and it's a failure. Meanwhile, Russia has hypersonic missiles, overwhelming artillery capability, etc etc. Unless the US wants to go for an all-out land war or nukes, peace will be made on Russia's terms and no amount of aid changes this. And it doesn't matter what you or any of the neocon clowns want or think is fair. It's called reality. The missiles were launched to sabotage peace, full stop.

How's that WWIII narrative looking right now?

When you have insane idiots running the show, sane people become concerned.

*There's a lot of people that don't go into a genuflection posture when they hear the phrase "Col. MacGregor thinks….."

G*d forbid we should actually listen to the people who have been right about this situation from the very beginning. But I'm sure we should pretend that Blinken, Nuland, Lindsey Graham etc have it figured out now.

He's been calling for peace talks and restraint for two years, along with Ritter and a few others.

It seems consistent that many of those who seek more war are also naive as to our capabilities, Russias, and our ongoing failures.

BTW, when will we get hypersonic missiles?

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

russia should stop provoking the West. The West has nukes.

— Woodland Fella 🇱🇹 ‡ (@vatnik_destruct) November 19, 2024

---

Sachs: "We have a mindset that leads us to nuclear war"

Jeffrey Sachs on Global Threats: "The Only Threat to the United States is Nuclear War"https://t.co/v62Y54VHmD

— Dyor (@Powerfulmindx) November 21, 2024

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/182733784-nuclear-war

---

All of these Russian provocations have really forced the West to respond in force, it's a damn shame.

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

russia should stop provoking the West. The West has nukes.

— Woodland Fella 🇱🇹 ‡ (@vatnik_destruct) November 19, 2024

---

Sachs: "We have a mindset that leads us to nuclear war"

Jeffrey Sachs on Global Threats: "The Only Threat to the United States is Nuclear War"https://t.co/v62Y54VHmD

— Dyor (@Powerfulmindx) November 21, 2024

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/182733784-nuclear-war

---

All of these Russian provocations have really forced the West to respond in force, it's a damn shame.

---

https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/107414/replies/2420703

---

Yes, if Russia hadn't done all these provocations like invading Crimea, funding military separatist groups in Ukraine, and creating a huge military buildup on the Ukrainian border (and then invading mainland Ukraine), perhaps this all could have been avoided. Alas!