The writing is on the wall for a post NATO world. Friendly relations with Russia negate the need to have a big joint defense agreement (that our allies don't adhere to anyways). It is uncomfortable to think about but ????

Would take us into a new world.

How about white papers on the US spending $17 Trillion on starting wars since 2000, and essentially losing them. All of them.

And losing every war since WWII.

You really "owned the Lib" with that response.

tequila4kapp said:

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The writing is on the wall for a post NATO world. Friendly relations with Russia negate the need to have a big joint defense agreement (that our allies don't adhere to anyways). It is uncomfortable to think about but ????

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Outside of Ukraine, Poland, and a few other countries, does Europe really feel threatened by Russia? If money is the barometer, you can't tell by the amount other countries pay for self-defense.

IF Russia invades a non-Russian majority province of a former Soviet country, you might have an argument. Until then, decades of experience with Putin says they are just hyping up the threat to justify their own existence.

Give 'em what they want. FAFO

How the borders will look when Trump actually succeeds in making a deal with Putin, sometime in 2026 or 2027. pic.twitter.com/egoPIYSWkR

— Chebureki Man (@CheburekiMan) February 15, 2025

I disagree with his take, this is how the borders would have looked under a Harris administration, because they would have been incapable of making a deal with Russia, being ideologically committed to the Putler narrative, and the Russians would have kept advancing and annexed all the Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine (roughly the yellow parts in the map above).

I think we will probably end up with a land settlement in a year or two somewhere between the current borders and halfway to the map above as the Russians will be pressed to take that deal if the US guarantees Ukrainian neutrality and disarmament.

I don't think Trump Time indicates waiting a year or two, esp. if he cuts off $$ to Ukraine.

🚨President Trump on the Ukraine war:

“I think President Putin wants to stop fighting… I think he wants to end it.”
pic.twitter.com/GGDJSe3hTK

— Benny Johnson (@bennyjohnson) February 16, 2025

UKRAINE: Trump and his team have met with Zelensky and his advisors more than a dozen times, working to find a path toward peace, yet the moment Trump places a single call to Putin and plans a meeting, the media erupts in outrage. Zelensky refuses to negotiate directly with… pic.twitter.com/tQlPm3iagR

— @amuse (@amuse) February 17, 2025

bearister said:

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Has a MAGA approved Think Tank ever generated a white paper making the case for the United States trusting Russia?

SMA TRADOC White Paper- Russian Strategic Intentions | NSI


https://nsiteam.com/social/sma-white-paper-russian-strategic-intentions/

"There is broad consensus among the contributors that Russian President Vladimir Putin is indeed adhering to a global grand strategy, which aims to achieve the following goals:

Reclaim and secure Russia's influence over former Soviet nations
Regain worldwide recognition as a "great power"
Portray itself as a reliable actor, a key regional powerbroker, and a successful mediator (Katz; Borshchevskaya) in order to gain economic, military, and political influence over nations worldwide and to refine the liberalist rules and norms that currently govern the world order (Lamoreaux)"

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After watching this guy I see that Bearisyer is correct

#Putin is the bad guy, I’m 100% sure. I used to think it was #starmer and the corrupt #eu but I watched the #bbc and read the papers and now see the truth. #RussianUkrainewar He wants to invade Europe probably tomorrow. Here’s why: pic.twitter.com/aitn5SnDnE

— Galactic Zoo (@TonyMarrese) February 17, 2025

Completely European. The leaders of Europe wax philosophically about how the USA needs to provide military troops to support a peace deal that impacts the Europeans.

As one example Poland, with the largest army and proximity, won't defend a neutral zone.

BREAKING: According to my sources: the proposal by #Trump consists of 3 stages:

1) a ceasefire
2) ELECTIONS in Ukraine
3) signing of a final agreement.

This is complete fulfillment of all #Putin desires.

Especially the election part is a gift by Trump to Putin. Putin…

— Sergey Lagodinsky (@SLagodinsky) February 18, 2025

Proposed 3 stage peace deal demands Ukraine hold new election?

BREAKING: Trump calls for Ukraine to hold Presidential Elections as part of the peace deal, says Zelensky is deeply unpopular after savage war

— Jack Poso 🇺🇸 (@JackPosobiec) February 18, 2025

Once again, Zelensky won the first time around by campaigning as the russophone peace candidate who was going to work a deal with Russia to end the Donbas war before doing a 180.

concordtom said:

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Russia is such horsechit

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-nato-must-disavow-121027791.html

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They are right about this though, based on the failures of the Minsk Agreements.

In other news about the war, correspondant Pepe Escobar has reported on the Judge Napolitano show that the Russians are poised to make big advances in the next 2 to 3 months. They would therefore be reluctant to implement a cease fire, at least not a long one.

Trump says Ukraine 'should have never started it' in comments about war with Russia


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-ukraine-should-never-have-started-it-remarks-war-russia-rcna192710

concordtom said:

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Russia is such horsechit

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-nato-must-disavow-121027791.html

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Agreed. F Russia

tequila4kapp said:

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bear2034 said:

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BREAKING: According to my sources: the proposal by #Trump consists of 3 stages:

1) a ceasefire
2) ELECTIONS in Ukraine
3) signing of a final agreement.

This is complete fulfillment of all #Putin desires.

Especially the election part is a gift by Trump to Putin. Putin…

— Sergey Lagodinsky (@SLagodinsky) February 18, 2025

Proposed 3 stage peace deal demands Ukraine hold new election?

---

Ok, but if Russia isn't giving land back then all pro-Russia people in those areas aren't Ukrainian and don't vote. Zelensky likely wins.

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Kyiv claimed in December that his popularity rating had dropped to 50% (from 90%).

On top of this, for a leader running a country at war, Zelenskyy has just traveled to Poland, Germany, the UAE and Turkey since last weekend. He also supposedly signed a business deal with UAE.

Is he looking to bolt?

The press gangs in Ukraine are now chasing and capturing women off the streets to be sent in support roles including in the trenches.

#Ukraine began to hunt down women too. This young lady was taken presumably to serve as a nurse for #Ukranian troops but given the vibes of 🇺🇦 propaganda she may serve a different role. Watching old men and disabled kidnapped was hard enough. This is the true cost of #NATO wars pic.twitter.com/FQ7mX0grsr

— Arthur Morgan (@ArthurM40330824) October 28, 2024

Ukrainian widow from Nikolaev in southern Ukraine turns into a suicide bomber:

🇺🇦🚨‼️ In Nikolaev, a woman blew up military recruiters, soldiers and herself at the same time.

Looks like it was revenge for force conscripting her husband or son.

1/ pic.twitter.com/ICr34LsKfi

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) February 15, 2025

Ukranians hate their government to the point they start killing themselves or even do suicide bombing.

Insane.

3/ pic.twitter.com/FkKosVFqK2

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) February 15, 2025

sycasey said:

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bearister said:

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Trump says Ukraine 'should have never started it' in comments about war with Russia


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-ukraine-should-never-have-started-it-remarks-war-russia-rcna192710

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Hoo boy.

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It's just amazing how he's able to speak such outright lies.
Russia militarily invaded Ukraine. And he says Ukraine started it.

It's like saying you won the election even though you lost by 5 states plus the popular vote.

Or that they were peacefully protesting, or welcomed inside.



Just outright bold face lies. And he is unaffected by truth. No conscience.

concordtom said:

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sycasey said:

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bearister said:

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Trump says Ukraine 'should have never started it' in comments about war with Russia


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-ukraine-should-never-have-started-it-remarks-war-russia-rcna192710

---

Hoo boy.

---

It's just amazing how he's able to speak such outright lies.
Russia militarily invaded Ukraine. And he says Ukraine started it.

It's like saying you won the election even though you lost by 5 states plus the popular vote.

Or that they were peacefully protesting, or welcomed inside.



Just outright bold face lies.

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We're just being governed by people who believe all of the right-wing Twitter memes now. I think they will run up against reality sooner or later, but gonna just have to get used to it in the near term.

One side of the Capitol welcomed patriots in, opening doors and removing barriers. The other side was mayhem.

Tall confident Leader Ray Epps the night before was urging patriots to "go into the Capitol". Patriots shouted "Fed, Fed". The next day he took down barricades, and on a bullhorn exhorted patriots to "go into the Capitol".

Nancy Pelosi's daughter was there to film everything, and appeared to be caught on hidden camera admitting it was a setup. President Trump authorized up to 5,000 National Guard, but both Pelosi and the DC Chief of Police didn't call them until hours after J6 took off. Even then, they called NG from a distant location.

The next day he was a Top 10 FBI Wanted. 48 hours later his name was removed. Eventually he was given a slap on the wrist, nothing compared to the other J6 defendants.

The crooked J6 Committee destroyed all of their sham documents, and President Biden gave all of the J6 Committee members criminal pardons - i.e. admitting criminal conduct.

movielover said:

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One side of the Capitol welcomed patriots in, opening doors and removing barriers. The other side was mayhem.

Tall confident Leader Ray Epps the night before was urging patriots to "go into the Capitol". Patriots shouted "Fed, Fed". The next day he took down barricades, and on a bullhorn exhorted patriots to "go into thecCapitol".

The next day he was a Top 10 FBI Wanted. 48 hours later his name was removed. Eventually he was given a slap on the wrist, nothing compared to the other J6 defendants.

---

Well then. I see you have used your logic to make everything okay.

Feel better.

The highly edited 60 Minutes tape of Trump's interview was released - along w the unedited - version.

60 Minutes cut out sections where Trump ripped the Bidens for accepting millions from the Mayor of Moscow, China, Hunter Biden's monthly windfall from Ukraine, and his brother landing millions from the Middle East.