I thought it was a bigger presence in Poland?

The moment you realize those nets are not for catching leaves 😳 pic.twitter.com/jMmGWPmNcy

— Matt Wallace (@MattWallace888) November 22, 2025

These nets protect people from drone attacks?

"$100 billion of frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led reconstruction and investment efforts in Ukraine. The United States will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will contribute $100 billion to increase the volume of investment available for Ukraine's reconstruction. Frozen European funds will be unfrozen. The remaining frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russia investment vehicle, which will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and expanding common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict."

Question: will this go to the areas Russia is annexing or will it solely go to areas that Ukraine is keeping?

oski003 said:

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"$100 billion of frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led reconstruction and investment efforts in Ukraine. The United States will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will contribute $100 billion to increase the volume of investment available for Ukraine's reconstruction. Frozen European funds will be unfrozen. The remaining frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russia investment vehicle, which will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and expanding common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict."

Question: will this go to the areas Russia is annexing or will it solely go to areas that Ukraine is keeping?

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This is pure fantasy, the Russians will never accept this and other similar clauses about their seized funds being repossessed. Reportedly this was the input of Jared Kushner, who thinks he can turn Ukraine into another Gaza pet project.

The 28 clauses are a mix of reasonable conditions and fantasy/dealbreakers. It looks like the war is going to go on well into '26, though it will be interesting to see if there is a shift in expectations in Europe and NATO as the frontlines crumble.

.@SecArmy’s assessment here is of course 100 percent correct. Considering Ukraine’s manpower challenges, Western resource constraints, and the political turmoil in Kyiv, Ukraine’s position will only continue to deteriorate over the coming months. https://t.co/kW8tQP9JKI

— Dan Caldwell 🇺🇸 (@dandcaldwell) November 22, 2025

Saw that last week. (Can't remember source) scary AF.
Dystopian

A post by Zelensky’s former press secretary that gives an idea about the range of opinions at the top of Ukrainian power, not to mention Ukraine at large. https://t.co/M5pOD3JBRc

— Leonid Ragozin (@leonidragozin) November 23, 2025

sycasey said:

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Cal88 said:

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sycasey said:

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Cal88 said:

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BIG if true:

BREAKING:

🇺🇲🇷🇺🇺🇦 Trump and Putin have reached a deal on Ukraine behind closed doors, mainly on Russian conditions - Axios reports

According to the new plan the US and other countries will recognize Crimea and Donbas as legitimate Russian territory.

Reducing Ukraine’s armed… pic.twitter.com/yg076B5taO

— Megatron (@Megatron_ron) November 19, 2025

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Wait, does this mean recognizing Russian as the official state language in the remaining Ukraine territory? I can't see that flying.

Requiring that Ukraine reduce its own military is also just basically making them a sitting duck for the next invasion.

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This is not confirmed, might be just a balloon proposal.

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I don't doubt that if Putin is just talking to Trump without the Ukrainians or EU involved it will just be an "everything we want" proposal from Putin. We'll see.

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Anyone claiming Trump's Ukraine peace proposal is a "Russian wish list" either hasn't read it or -- more likely -- has a brain still rotted from Russiagate.

They're also living in a childish make-believe world where Ukraine is winning even as Russia keeps advancing westward. https://t.co/oUdi8HdUgd

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) November 23, 2025

Pretty much what I've been saying all along on this thread, over and over...

" Every subsequent deal for Ukraine will only be worse because we are losing. We are losing people, territory, and the economy.

The EU (which by the way has paid Russia more than 311 billion for energy and goods since February 2022) has no real strategy, no way to stop fueling Russian budget or support Ukraine enough to win, no direct dialogue with Moscow, and no meaningful leverage over either the Kremlin or Washington.
Arguments that "Russia has gained so little land" sound almost childish when you consider the human cost. We have lost more people in three years than some European nations have as the whole population.*

My country is bleeding out. Many who reflexively oppose every peace proposal believe they are defending Ukraine. With all respect, that is the clearest proof they have no idea what is actually happening on the front lines and inside the country right now.

War is not a Hollywood movie. I will never abandon the values that God and democracy both place at the very foundation of human existence: human life is the highest good, and people living, breathing people are the ones who must be saved."


* Ukraine used to have a population of over 50 million in 1990. Currently the population of the Ukrainian territory not held by Russia is less than 20 million.

Looks like the Trump people have been going back to the Ukrainians now and trying to come to an agreement they can live with. Good! I sincerely hope they can find a way to end the war, because the grinding stalemate we're in wasn't good for anyone.

It's not a stalemate, Russia is advancing faster and could have sights on Odessa.

I agree, end it. The billionaires, MIC, and incompetent EU leaders want to continue the bloodbath. Maybe the Azov Nazis, and CIA, too.

This supposedly gives the equivalent of NATO Article 5 protections. The longer Ukraine waits, the more lives and land is lost. Ukraine started with a population of 50 million, and is now down to 20 million?

movielover said:

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It's not a stalemate, Russia is advancing faster and could have sights on Odessa.

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They are still advancing very, very slowly and it is costing them a ton. Also better for Russia to end it.

I mean, really they could have ended it a long time ago (or never started it at all), but if they can agree to end it now it's better than never.

No, they couldn't end it a long time ago bc Zelensky is intransigent, unelected, supported by billionaires, likely jacked up on something, and unwilling to face realities.

Russia is the victor and sets most of the terms. Zelensky was still sticking to the three-year-old dream of retaking Crimea.

It appears that losses are so heavy, and defections so big, that many are having to finally wake up. Heck, eighteen months ago they were fighting (sacrificing) with 45-and 50-year-olds. European citizens are war weary.

Cut the best deal they can and end it. The longer he waits, the more they lose. If Putin spends lives and treasure taking Odessa, he may not give it back.

movielover said:

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No, they couldn't end it a long time ago bc Zelensky is intransigent, unelected, supported by billionaires, likely jacked up on something, and unwilling to face realities.

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They could have ended it because they could have just stopped attacking. Ukraine wasn't going to invade Russia. Not sure why I have to keep explaining this to people.

That said, yes, at this point both sides should cut the best deal they can and end it.

Russia stops advancing, Ukraine reloads, CIA provides new coordinates to attack, and UKR will do nothing? Please.

movielover said:

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Russia stops advancing, Ukraine reloads, CIA provides new coordinates to attack, and UKR will do nothing? Please.

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Ukraine was not going to attack Russia.

But they would reload, retool.

Sit down and make a deal. But we all know Z is corrupt, has houses all over the world, graft is rampant*, and is in a precarious position.

* Biden and Congress officially allowed it

sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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No, they couldn't end it a long time ago bc Zelensky is intransigent, unelected, supported by billionaires, likely jacked up on something, and unwilling to face realities.

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They could have ended it because they could have just stopped attacking. Ukraine wasn't going to invade Russia. Not sure why I have to keep explaining this to people.

That said, yes, at this point both sides should cut the best deal they can and end it.

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Ukraine wants to invade Crimea at the very least. Also. the post-Maidan government launched the ATO military campaign on the Donbas in 2014.

Ukraine recognizing these territories as Russian and staying neutral are the main conditions for the Russians to settle this conflict in the long term.

movielover said:

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But they would reload, retool.

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To guard against another invasion, yes.

sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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But they would reload, retool.

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To guard against another invasion, yes.

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As long as they don't recognize Crimea, Donbas and the land bridge as Russian territory, there will always be a cassus beli for the nationalists in Kyiv. The next government needs to concede these territories, which would reflect the current popular mood in Ukraine. People there are tired of the war and don't want to be ground up to the last man in a cause that has no chance of succeeding, and it's not like the people in Donbas or Crimea want anything to do with Kyiv.

These are the NATO apparatchik that have kept the meat grinder fed, playing geopolitical chess by sacrificing one Ukrainian piece after the other:

I must say, German militarism and blood thirst got much prettier (the silly mustache is gone). Just the underlying mindset remains the same. I wish she followed up on her words and and actually went fighting for her insane views. They never do. pic.twitter.com/Q8DiEJaDUZ

— Pascal Lottaz (@PLottaz) November 24, 2025

Cal88 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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But they would reload, retool.

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To guard against another invasion, yes.

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As long as they don't recognize Crimea, Donbas and the land bridge as Russian territory, there will always be a cassus beli for the nationalists in Kyiv. The next government needs to concede these territories, which would reflect the current popular mood in Ukraine. People there are tired of the war and don't want to be ground up to the last man in a cause that has no chance of succeeding, and it's not like the people in Donbas or Crimea want anything to do with Kyiv.

These are the NATO apparatchik that have kept the meat grinder fed, playing geopolitical chess by sacrificing one Ukrainian piece after the other:

I must say, German militarism and blood thirst got much prettier (the silly mustache is gone). Just the underlying mindset remains the same. I wish she followed up on her words and and actually went fighting for her insane views. They never do. pic.twitter.com/Q8DiEJaDUZ

— Pascal Lottaz (@PLottaz) November 24, 2025

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I also think Ukrainians that escaped the war should have to go back and rebuild their country. If the war stops there's no more need for asylum.

MinotStateBeav said:

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Cal88 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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But they would reload, retool.

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To guard against another invasion, yes.

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As long as they don't recognize Crimea, Donbas and the land bridge as Russian territory, there will always be a cassus beli for the nationalists in Kyiv. The next government needs to concede these territories, which would reflect the current popular mood in Ukraine. People there are tired of the war and don't want to be ground up to the last man in a cause that has no chance of succeeding, and it's not like the people in Donbas or Crimea want anything to do with Kyiv.

These are the NATO apparatchik that have kept the meat grinder fed, playing geopolitical chess by sacrificing one Ukrainian piece after the other:

I must say, German militarism and blood thirst got much prettier (the silly mustache is gone). Just the underlying mindset remains the same. I wish she followed up on her words and and actually went fighting for her insane views. They never do. pic.twitter.com/Q8DiEJaDUZ

— Pascal Lottaz (@PLottaz) November 24, 2025

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I also think Ukrainians that escaped the war should have to go back and rebuild their country. If the war stops there's no more need for asylum.

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I suspect many would like to. But they will need a reasonable expectation that Russia won't be invading again.

MinotStateBeav said:

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Cal88 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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But they would reload, retool.

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To guard against another invasion, yes.

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As long as they don't recognize Crimea, Donbas and the land bridge as Russian territory, there will always be a cassus beli for the nationalists in Kyiv. The next government needs to concede these territories, which would reflect the current popular mood in Ukraine. People there are tired of the war and don't want to be ground up to the last man in a cause that has no chance of succeeding, and it's not like the people in Donbas or Crimea want anything to do with Kyiv.

These are the NATO apparatchik that have kept the meat grinder fed, playing geopolitical chess by sacrificing one Ukrainian piece after the other:

I must say, German militarism and blood thirst got much prettier (the silly mustache is gone). Just the underlying mindset remains the same. I wish she followed up on her words and and actually went fighting for her insane views. They never do. pic.twitter.com/Q8DiEJaDUZ

— Pascal Lottaz (@PLottaz) November 24, 2025

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I also think Ukrainians that escaped the war should have to go back and rebuild their country. If the war stops there's no more need for asylum.

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There's only a quarter million Ukrainian refugees in the US, Ukraine is way down on the list of immigrants to the US, and by and large they are hard working, law abiding people with professional skills and high levels of education. If anything we could use people with experience in fields like mining, metallurgy, aerospace, machine tooling etc, Ukraine was a key hub of these industries.

Some would return if conditions improved in their home country, but many who have settled down and started careers will not.

The question is more relevant to countries like Poland, Slovakia, Germany or even Russia that have far larger Ukrainian diasporas, in absolute or relative numbers.

Don't care. They were invited in the United States as guests to escape the war, I don't believe there was an expectation of this being permanent.

Maybe the Ukranian church should allow short term bigamy to rebuild the population?

sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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Russia stops advancing, Ukraine reloads, CIA provides new coordinates to attack, and UKR will do nothing? Please.

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Ukraine was not going to attack Russia.

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What do you mean?

Ukraine has been attacking Russia with ATACMS missiles & drones for months. They attacked Kursk & held Russian territory for months.

More importantly, Kiev, egged on by NATO, violated the Minsk Agreements, which according to top Ukrainian, French and German leaders, they were never going to abide. That is the main reason for this war.

Fox News: JUST IN: Peace on the table. Ukraine agrees to a deal to end the war with Russia, a U.S. official tells Fox News.

"U.S. Army Secretary Dan Driscoll and his team met with Russian officials in Abu Dhabi Monday and Tuesday to discuss a potential Ukraine peace frameworkwith the U.S. remaining "optimistic" about the deal.

"The diplomatic flurry follows the leak of the 28-point peace plan, which many European leaders and U.S. lawmakers view as largely favorable to Russia. | America's Newsroom"

Hopefully true.

cbbass1 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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Russia stops advancing, Ukraine reloads, CIA provides new coordinates to attack, and UKR will do nothing? Please.

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Ukraine was not going to attack Russia.

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What do you mean?

Ukraine has been attacking Russia with ATACMS missiles & drones for months. They attacked Kursk & held Russian territory for months.

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I mean they will not be attacking if they are not being actively invaded.

They "invaded" bc they ignored Putin, overthrew the political leadership, inserted Victoria Nuland (aka Darth Vader) into the mix, put 12 CIA bases on Russias border, spent years planning to take Russian lands, and we're forcing NATO into Ukraine- a gard line for Russia. An existential threat.

You know all this. NATO FA and FO.

Now NATO, EU, and USA stockpiles are threadbare but the MIC and billionaires are thrilled.

Ironically, only Putin and Trump - mainly Trump - wanted peace.

movielover said:

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They "invaded" bc they ignored Putin, overthrew the political leadership, inserted Victoria Nuland (aka Darth Vader) into the mix, put 12 CIA bases on Russias border, spent years planning to take Russian lands, and we're forcing NATO into Ukraine- a gard line for Russia. An existential threat.

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Why does "invaded" always need to be in scare quotes for Russia, like they didn't actually do it? They did, it's okay to admit it.

They protected and defended their sovereign territory.

If China or Mexico spent ten years and tens of Billions of Dollars building up resources, troops, defensive positions, missiles, military training, and contiguous world leaders openly talked about breaking up America, expat communities in Mexico were attacked, English-speaking schools bombed... what would you expect to happen?

movielover said:

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They protected and defended their sovereign territory.

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Their territory wasn't being attacked.

Unless you assume that what was Ukraine was always theirs, a key claim of Putin's.

sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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They "invaded" bc they ignored Putin, overthrew the political leadership, inserted Victoria Nuland (aka Darth Vader) into the mix, put 12 CIA bases on Russias border, spent years planning to take Russian lands, and we're forcing NATO into Ukraine- a gard line for Russia. An existential threat.

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Why does "invaded" always need to be in scare quotes for Russia, like they didn't actually do it? They did, it's okay to admit it.

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We (NATO) invaded and dismantled Yugoslavia, balkanized and gerrymandered it into several new countries like Kosovo because one party mistreated the other.

The ATO or military attack by the Kiev government of rebel russophone provinces across the east and south of the country was one of the main bases for Russian intervention. In the Winter of '22 the Kiev army had amassed a force of 60,000 troops that were about to overrun the Donbas rebels, this forced Russia to intervene.

Based on the Yugoslav precedent, they could have intervened as early as 2014, in response to events like dozens of local protestors being burned alive in Odessa by thugs sent from western Ukraine, or of constant bombardment of the Donbas civilians by the Kiev army, the president of Ukraine even boasting of Donbas children being forced to grow up in basement shelters in order to break the will of the Donbas rebels.

Cal88 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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They "invaded" bc they ignored Putin, overthrew the political leadership, inserted Victoria Nuland (aka Darth Vader) into the mix, put 12 CIA bases on Russias border, spent years planning to take Russian lands, and we're forcing NATO into Ukraine- a gard line for Russia. An existential threat.

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Why does "invaded" always need to be in scare quotes for Russia, like they didn't actually do it? They did, it's okay to admit it.

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We (NATO) invaded and dismantled Yugoslavia, balkanized and gerrymandered it into several new countries like Kosovo because one party mistreated the other.

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Yugoslavia was already breaking apart on its own and it was probably good to prevent the genocide/apartheid conditions of the Kosovars. Also quite notably, the US and/or NATO never attempted to absorb that territory into one of its existing nations, instead helping to set up a separate independent nation.

Russia's claims against Ukraine have always been pretty heavily exaggerated or outright made-up, and they actually do want to absorb that territory for themselves. Quite different.