The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

1,887,323 Views | 13291 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by Aunburdened
Cal88
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concordtom said:

I recall your stance but i have not participated much in this thread.

Putin has Crimea, free and clear. The problem was when he amassed his troops all around Ukraine and invaded. He lobbed missiles into Kiev. Why are you suggesting it could have ended with just Crimea?
I think you've believed this line - maybe it's your line - that it's Ukraine's fault for not promising to never join NATO.

I disagree with such logic. A country ought be free and independent. And another country ought not invade.

Putin ought not invade Crimea or the Dunbass and Trump ought not capture Maduro or kill Iran's leader.

At my university, AU, under the school of international affairs, you could be focus on
international economics (me)
international development (my wife)
international law
international peace and conflict resolution

It's this last one which I would have taken classes in had I more time.
I don't believe in militarism. There has to be a better way. Trump is unsophisticated, just like Putin. Let's not fail to remember that we live in a nuclear era. Many actors, some rogue. Escalation can suddenly be catastrophic.

It'll be interesting to see which path China takes as they continue to grow. So far, they've been incredibly impressive.

I don't have anything sophisticated to say about Ukraine other than I am violently opposed to Putin's invasion.
But I claim very little understanding. I would need a team of advisors. I would want to meet with the Russian delegation to hear their supposed justification.


Fair enough.

I think the Russian perspective on Ukraine here is that they have to be neutral, like Finland or Austria was for decades in the cold war (Austria is still neutral to this day). NATO is basically a military alliance against Russia, ever since the early 2000s.

The problem started when Ukraine after the 2014 Maidan coup adopted a 1930s nationalist culture which was highly antagonistic towards not just Russia but also its large Russian minority.

Had Ukraine abided by basic minority rights standards that prevail across western Europe (see for ex Spain with its Basque and Catalan minorities), there would not have been a war in Ukraine.

This is a pretty useful perspective and background, from a prof with mixed Russian and Ukrainian background who is an advocate for peace and reconcilliation there:

concordtom
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I appreciate your posts.
I have to go move a warehouse and will get to this later.
Aunburdened
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It makes total sense now why Ben Stiller is an executive producer on Severance. His memory gets wiped every day.


Aunburdened
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sycasey
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Aunburdened
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Aunburdened
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sycasey said:



smh
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> ..battlefield losses in the war against Ukraine at 1,315,000 soldiers, with 62% dead, 38% wounded..
if true, even just the number of wounded is horrible.
# funk putin, and the (compromised) u.s. president he rides hard, and puts away wet
sighned, not dead yet # funk trunk
Aunburdened
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sycasey
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Aunburdened
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sycasey said:



Great response to that tweet
Aunburdened
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smh
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sycasey said:

x.com/euromaidanpr/status/2032561774617092341?s=46&t=V7xIXbvJu4pWYQrZSv3olA

^ Go Ukes!
# rah rah rhee, kickem in the knee, rah rah rass, kick'em in the other knee
sighned, not dead yet # funk trunk
sycasey
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Aunburdened said:



If anyone knows about human rights, it's this guy!
Aunburdened
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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I thought Russia had the most badass military in the world and NATO was in shambles. It's hard to see NATO at the gates of Moscow if that is true.
movielover
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sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:



If anyone knows about human rights, it's this guy!


There reportedly was a very low civilian death rate in Ukraine as of six months ago.
Cal88
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movielover said:

sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:



If anyone knows about human rights, it's this guy!


There reportedly was a very low civilian death rate in Ukraine as of six months ago.


The Ukraine war has one of the lowest civilian death rates of any major war in history, at around 1% (17,000 civilians out of 1.7M+ deaths). And the majority of these deaths have been on the Russian/Donbas side.

Contrast with the Gaza "war" where the death rate is above 94% civilians.

One example of the Russians limiting civilian deaths is their conducting large scale infrastructure attacks on factories, powerplants etc late at night where there are few civilians:
movielover
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Can we believe the 1% figure?
Cal88
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movielover said:

Can we believe the 1% figure?


Yes, 15k-17k civilian deaths in the Ukraine, 1.7M Ukrainian/NATO and Russian soldiers KIA.

One of the main reasons for this as well is that the Russians, after Mariupol, have avoided attacking large cities and have settled for a more static trench war of attrition where they can press their artillery and stand-off weapons volume advantage.
sycasey
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movielover
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I've seen snippets where Ukraine is claiming some recent victories, any truth to that?
Cal88
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movielover said:

I've seen snippets where Ukraine is claiming some recent victories, any truth to that?


Ukraine has managed to land a long range drone hit on a valuable target deep into Russia, perhaps that's what you are referring to:



Ukraine is starting to produce cheaper cruise missiles and drones like the Flamingo, as opposed to the expensive and scarce hardware from NATO that they cannot scale.

On the other hand, Ukraine is going to suffer from US resources being mobilized for the Iran war going forward.
movielover
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The MIC must be ecstatic. Ugh.

Despite new tariff revenue, the deficit keeps rolling along at $2 Trillion per year.
Aunburdened
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sycasey
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Aunburdened said:



Cruse sounds like a total idiot in this clip.
dajo9
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After Russia paid bounties for dead Americans in Afghanistan during Trump's first term now they are helping Iran target Americans in Trump's second term.

Trump has removed sanctions on Russian oil and destabilized NATO. Putin has always been Trump's mentor.
Censorship has always been a tool of the fascist
Aunburdened
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dajo9 said:

After Russia paid bounties for dead Americans in Afghanistan during Trump's first term now they are helping Iran target Americans in Trump's second term.

Your hero debunked that, but always nice to see you out yourself as a propaganda dupe
https://theweek.com/speedreads/977720/white-house-intelligence-only-low-moderate-confidence-russian-bounties-reports
Quote:

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said at Thursday's press briefing that a review Biden ordered of classified reports found that the intelligence community has only "low to moderate confidence" in the bounties reports. "The reason that they have low to moderate confidence in this judgment is in part because it relies on detainee reporting, and due to the challenging environment and also due to the challenging operating environment in Afghanistan," Psaki said. "So it's challenging to gather this intelligence and this data." She said there's strong evidence Russia's GRU intelligence service interacts with Afghanistan's criminal networks.




dajo9
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Aunburdened said:

dajo9 said:

After Russia paid bounties for dead Americans in Afghanistan during Trump's first term now they are helping Iran target Americans in Trump's second term.

Your hero debunked that, but always nice to see you out yourself as a propaganda dupe
https://theweek.com/speedreads/977720/white-house-intelligence-only-low-moderate-confidence-russian-bounties-reports
Quote:

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said at Thursday's press briefing that a review Biden ordered of classified reports found that the intelligence community has only "low to moderate confidence" in the bounties reports. "The reason that they have low to moderate confidence in this judgment is in part because it relies on detainee reporting, and due to the challenging environment and also due to the challenging operating environment in Afghanistan," Psaki said. "So it's challenging to gather this intelligence and this data." She said there's strong evidence Russia's GRU intelligence service interacts with Afghanistan's criminal networks.







You got duped. . . again

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-gru-taliban-american-soldier-bounty-2014673
Censorship has always been a tool of the fascist
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

Aunburdened said:

dajo9 said:

After Russia paid bounties for dead Americans in Afghanistan during Trump's first term now they are helping Iran target Americans in Trump's second term.

Your hero debunked that, but always nice to see you out yourself as a propaganda dupe
https://theweek.com/speedreads/977720/white-house-intelligence-only-low-moderate-confidence-russian-bounties-reports
Quote:

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said at Thursday's press briefing that a review Biden ordered of classified reports found that the intelligence community has only "low to moderate confidence" in the bounties reports. "The reason that they have low to moderate confidence in this judgment is in part because it relies on detainee reporting, and due to the challenging environment and also due to the challenging operating environment in Afghanistan," Psaki said. "So it's challenging to gather this intelligence and this data." She said there's strong evidence Russia's GRU intelligence service interacts with Afghanistan's criminal networks.







You got duped. . . again

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-gru-taliban-american-soldier-bounty-2014673


Yogi is right, this is pretty dumb. Der Spiegel is CIA rag, as is the German MSM. I can provide the receipts if you'd like later this weekend.

But yeah, the Russians are helping Iran, though not nearly to the extent the US/NATO has been helping Ukraine kill Russians. If they were helping them at the same level, Iran would have sunk a dozen US chips already.

It turns out the Iranians are pretty smart and crafty, they have been waging a well thought out asymetric war that has a good chance of succeeding.
Aunburdened
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dajo9 said:

Aunburdened said:

dajo9 said:

After Russia paid bounties for dead Americans in Afghanistan during Trump's first term now they are helping Iran target Americans in Trump's second term.

Your hero debunked that, but always nice to see you out yourself as a propaganda dupe
https://theweek.com/speedreads/977720/white-house-intelligence-only-low-moderate-confidence-russian-bounties-reports
Quote:

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said at Thursday's press briefing that a review Biden ordered of classified reports found that the intelligence community has only "low to moderate confidence" in the bounties reports. "The reason that they have low to moderate confidence in this judgment is in part because it relies on detainee reporting, and due to the challenging environment and also due to the challenging operating environment in Afghanistan," Psaki said. "So it's challenging to gather this intelligence and this data." She said there's strong evidence Russia's GRU intelligence service interacts with Afghanistan's criminal networks.







You got duped. . . again

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-gru-taliban-american-soldier-bounty-2014673

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Got so owned all he could do was repost the propaganda and pretend he was right.
dajo9
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Aunburdened said:

dajo9 said:

Aunburdened said:

dajo9 said:

After Russia paid bounties for dead Americans in Afghanistan during Trump's first term now they are helping Iran target Americans in Trump's second term.

Your hero debunked that, but always nice to see you out yourself as a propaganda dupe
https://theweek.com/speedreads/977720/white-house-intelligence-only-low-moderate-confidence-russian-bounties-reports
Quote:

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said at Thursday's press briefing that a review Biden ordered of classified reports found that the intelligence community has only "low to moderate confidence" in the bounties reports. "The reason that they have low to moderate confidence in this judgment is in part because it relies on detainee reporting, and due to the challenging environment and also due to the challenging operating environment in Afghanistan," Psaki said. "So it's challenging to gather this intelligence and this data." She said there's strong evidence Russia's GRU intelligence service interacts with Afghanistan's criminal networks.







You got duped. . . again

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-gru-taliban-american-soldier-bounty-2014673

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Got so owned all he could do was repost the propaganda and pretend he was right.



Repost? Your news is 4 years older than mine. You get duped so easily because you're so full of impotent anger.
Censorship has always been a tool of the fascist
Aunburdened
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dajo9 said:

Aunburdened said:

dajo9 said:

Aunburdened said:

dajo9 said:

After Russia paid bounties for dead Americans in Afghanistan during Trump's first term now they are helping Iran target Americans in Trump's second term.

Your hero debunked that, but always nice to see you out yourself as a propaganda dupe
https://theweek.com/speedreads/977720/white-house-intelligence-only-low-moderate-confidence-russian-bounties-reports
Quote:

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said at Thursday's press briefing that a review Biden ordered of classified reports found that the intelligence community has only "low to moderate confidence" in the bounties reports. "The reason that they have low to moderate confidence in this judgment is in part because it relies on detainee reporting, and due to the challenging environment and also due to the challenging operating environment in Afghanistan," Psaki said. "So it's challenging to gather this intelligence and this data." She said there's strong evidence Russia's GRU intelligence service interacts with Afghanistan's criminal networks.







You got duped. . . again

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-gru-taliban-american-soldier-bounty-2014673

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Got so owned all he could do was repost the propaganda and pretend he was right.



Repost? Your news is 4 years older than mine. You get duped so easily because you're so full of impotent anger.

Yeah, Franklin Foer and David Corn still write articles about Russiagate being real too. Doesn't make them any more right than this piece of Russophobic propaganda.

Sell stupid someplace else.
Aunburdened
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