The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

1,985,792 Views | 13493 Replies | Last: 2 days ago by Aunburdened
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:



I think the real war mongers are the one who started the war (Russia).


NATO chief confirms that the Ukraine war started in 2014:


Yes, when Russia annexed Crimea.


Russia annexed Crimea peacefully, through a referendum

No they didn't.




Quote:

According to the 2014 census by occupation authorities, 84% of Crimean inhabitants named Russian as their native language; 7.9% named Crimean Tatar; 3.7% Tatar and 3.3% Ukrainian.



The referendum came after Russian troops (originally denying they were Russian, but now it's pretty much admitted they were) seized a bunch of military and government buildings at gunpoint. No one got to vote on secession before the occupation had already started. That's not peaceful. A referendum vote held AFTER Russia already took over the territory cannot be considered valid or trustworthy.

I don't care about what language people speak or what random people on the street say, that doesn't prove anything about a legitimate process.


That is the problem, your take is very naive and misinformed, largely based on negative stereotypes about Russians.

No, it's based on the facts of what happened, a.k.a. Russia invading and taking various parts of Ukraine without anyone getting a chance to vote on it beforehand. They are the invaders. This has nothing to do with the Russian people, it's the actions of their government.

You want to make it about stereotypes or bigotry or something because it makes it easier for you to defend Putin (or oppose America, I'm not sure which).

Not a fan of the forced conscription, but it's worth noting that none of that would be happening if Russia had not invaded.
BearlySane88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:



I think the real war mongers are the one who started the war (Russia).


NATO chief confirms that the Ukraine war started in 2014:


Yes, when Russia annexed Crimea.


Russia annexed Crimea peacefully, through a referendum

No they didn't.




Quote:

According to the 2014 census by occupation authorities, 84% of Crimean inhabitants named Russian as their native language; 7.9% named Crimean Tatar; 3.7% Tatar and 3.3% Ukrainian.



The referendum came after Russian troops (originally denying they were Russian, but now it's pretty much admitted they were) seized a bunch of military and government buildings at gunpoint. No one got to vote on secession before the occupation had already started. That's not peaceful. A referendum vote held AFTER Russia already took over the territory cannot be considered valid or trustworthy.

I don't care about what language people speak or what random people on the street say, that doesn't prove anything about a legitimate process.


That is the problem, your take is very naive and misinformed, largely based on negative stereotypes about Russians.

No, it's based on the facts of what happened, a.k.a. Russia invading and taking various parts of Ukraine without anyone getting a chance to vote on it beforehand. They are the invaders. This has nothing to do with the Russian people, it's the actions of their government.

You want to make it about stereotypes or bigotry or something because it makes it easier for you to defend Putin (or oppose America, I'm not sure which).


Clock it
movielover
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Do you send Victoria Nuland Christmas cards?
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:



I think the real war mongers are the one who started the war (Russia).


NATO chief confirms that the Ukraine war started in 2014:


Yes, when Russia annexed Crimea.


Russia annexed Crimea peacefully, through a referendum

No they didn't.




Quote:

According to the 2014 census by occupation authorities, 84% of Crimean inhabitants named Russian as their native language; 7.9% named Crimean Tatar; 3.7% Tatar and 3.3% Ukrainian.



The referendum came after Russian troops (originally denying they were Russian, but now it's pretty much admitted they were) seized a bunch of military and government buildings at gunpoint. No one got to vote on secession before the occupation had already started. That's not peaceful. A referendum vote held AFTER Russia already took over the territory cannot be considered valid or trustworthy.

I don't care about what language people speak or what random people on the street say, that doesn't prove anything about a legitimate process.


That is the problem, your take is very naive and misinformed, largely based on negative stereotypes about Russians.

No, it's based on the facts of what happened, a.k.a. Russia invading and taking various parts of Ukraine without anyone getting a chance to vote on it beforehand. They are the invaders. This has nothing to do with the Russian people, it's the actions of their government.

You want to make it about stereotypes or bigotry or something because it makes it easier for you to defend Putin (or oppose America, I'm not sure which).


It is the locals, people from the Donbas, Crimea and SE Ukraine to say who is the invader. You keep ignoring the history of the region, its ethnic composition, and how territories changed sides under Lenin and Khrushchev, the very basic nature of post-Soviet Ukraine:



What we did to Ukraine was incredibly cynical and cruel, putting in charge the most radical Bandera-worshipping nationalists in Kiev all but insuring a bloody civil war, one that has very predictably led Ukraine and nearly 2 million of their men to their destruction.

Reducing this to "opposing America" or being a Putin toadie is incredibly reductive and naive.


Quote:

Not a fan of the forced conscription, but it's worth noting that none of that would be happening if Russia had not invaded.

Ukrainian leadership could have stopped the war anytime they wanted, even today, instead of throwing thousands of fresh bodies into the meat grinder every month, they simply don't give a crap about their people. That leadership is a mix of fanatical Banderists and corrupt war profiteers, with some naive Ukrainians who thing that they are going to beat Russia militarily with Nato's help. These people are now stuck in the middle and powerless in front of the Banderist junta.
calpoly
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:



I think the real war mongers are the one who started the war (Russia).


NATO chief confirms that the Ukraine war started in 2014:


Yes, when Russia annexed Crimea.


Russia annexed Crimea peacefully, through a referendum

No they didn't.




Quote:

According to the 2014 census by occupation authorities, 84% of Crimean inhabitants named Russian as their native language; 7.9% named Crimean Tatar; 3.7% Tatar and 3.3% Ukrainian.



The referendum came after Russian troops (originally denying they were Russian, but now it's pretty much admitted they were) seized a bunch of military and government buildings at gunpoint. No one got to vote on secession before the occupation had already started. That's not peaceful. A referendum vote held AFTER Russia already took over the territory cannot be considered valid or trustworthy.

I don't care about what language people speak or what random people on the street say, that doesn't prove anything about a legitimate process.


That is the problem, your take is very naive and misinformed, largely based on negative stereotypes about Russians.

No, it's based on the facts of what happened, a.k.a. Russia invading and taking various parts of Ukraine without anyone getting a chance to vote on it beforehand. They are the invaders. This has nothing to do with the Russian people, it's the actions of their government.

You want to make it about stereotypes or bigotry or something because it makes it easier for you to defend Putin (or oppose America, I'm not sure which).


It is the locals, people from the Donbas, Crimea and SE Ukraine to say who is the invader. You keep ignoring the history of the region, its ethnic composition, and how territories changed sides under Lenin and Khrushchev, the very basic nature of post-Soviet Ukraine:



What we did to Ukraine was incredibly cynical and cruel, putting in charge the most radical Bandera-worshipping nationalists in Kiev all but insuring a bloody civil war, one that has very predictably led Ukraine and nearly 2 million of their men to their destruction.

Reducing this to "opposing America" or being a Putin toadie is incredibly reductive and naive.


Quote:

Not a fan of the forced conscription, but it's worth noting that none of that would be happening if Russia had not invaded.

Ukrainian leadership could have stopped the war anytime they wanted, even today, instead of throwing thousands of fresh bodies into the meat grinder every month, they simply don't give a crap about their people. That leadership is a mix of fanatical Banderists and corrupt war profiteers, with some naive Ukrainians who thing that they are going to beat Russia militarily with Nato's help. These people are now stuck in the middle and powerless in front of the Banderist junta.

Give it a rest and stop shilling for Putin. It's amazing to me that you love that Putin invaded another country unprovoked but you hate Israel is has done in Gaza.
sycasey
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movielover said:

Do you send Victoria Nuland Christmas cards?

The way you guys fixate on her has always been bizarre to me. Nothing Nuland did forced Russia to start taking pieces of Ukraine.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

What we did to Ukraine was incredibly cynical and cruel

You think that's bad, take a look at what Russia is doing right now.
sycasey
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calpoly said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:



I think the real war mongers are the one who started the war (Russia).


NATO chief confirms that the Ukraine war started in 2014:


Yes, when Russia annexed Crimea.


Russia annexed Crimea peacefully, through a referendum

No they didn't.




Quote:

According to the 2014 census by occupation authorities, 84% of Crimean inhabitants named Russian as their native language; 7.9% named Crimean Tatar; 3.7% Tatar and 3.3% Ukrainian.



The referendum came after Russian troops (originally denying they were Russian, but now it's pretty much admitted they were) seized a bunch of military and government buildings at gunpoint. No one got to vote on secession before the occupation had already started. That's not peaceful. A referendum vote held AFTER Russia already took over the territory cannot be considered valid or trustworthy.

I don't care about what language people speak or what random people on the street say, that doesn't prove anything about a legitimate process.


That is the problem, your take is very naive and misinformed, largely based on negative stereotypes about Russians.

No, it's based on the facts of what happened, a.k.a. Russia invading and taking various parts of Ukraine without anyone getting a chance to vote on it beforehand. They are the invaders. This has nothing to do with the Russian people, it's the actions of their government.

You want to make it about stereotypes or bigotry or something because it makes it easier for you to defend Putin (or oppose America, I'm not sure which).


It is the locals, people from the Donbas, Crimea and SE Ukraine to say who is the invader. You keep ignoring the history of the region, its ethnic composition, and how territories changed sides under Lenin and Khrushchev, the very basic nature of post-Soviet Ukraine:



What we did to Ukraine was incredibly cynical and cruel, putting in charge the most radical Bandera-worshipping nationalists in Kiev all but insuring a bloody civil war, one that has very predictably led Ukraine and nearly 2 million of their men to their destruction.

Reducing this to "opposing America" or being a Putin toadie is incredibly reductive and naive.


Quote:

Not a fan of the forced conscription, but it's worth noting that none of that would be happening if Russia had not invaded.

Ukrainian leadership could have stopped the war anytime they wanted, even today, instead of throwing thousands of fresh bodies into the meat grinder every month, they simply don't give a crap about their people. That leadership is a mix of fanatical Banderists and corrupt war profiteers, with some naive Ukrainians who thing that they are going to beat Russia militarily with Nato's help. These people are now stuck in the middle and powerless in front of the Banderist junta.

Give it a rest and stop shilling for Putin. It's amazing to me that you love that Putin invaded another country unprovoked but you hate Israel is has done in Gaza.

The only difference is that the US is allied with Israel but not with Russia. It's America Bad logic all the way down.

Russia, of course, has no agency at all according to them.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

movielover said:

Do you send Victoria Nuland Christmas cards?

The way you guys fixate on her has always been bizarre to me. Nothing Nuland did forced Russia to start taking pieces of Ukraine.


Nuland engineered the Maidan Coup and chose the leaders and cabinet in post-Maidan Ukraine. She was a governor figure over Ukraine.

Russia did not want to take pieces from Ukraine, the Minsk and Istanbul agreements kept the Donbas in Ukraine, with more local cultural autonomy, along the models used across Europe (Catalonia, Flanders, Basque country etc).
dajo9
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calpoly said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:



I think the real war mongers are the one who started the war (Russia).


NATO chief confirms that the Ukraine war started in 2014:


Yes, when Russia annexed Crimea.


Russia annexed Crimea peacefully, through a referendum

No they didn't.




Quote:

According to the 2014 census by occupation authorities, 84% of Crimean inhabitants named Russian as their native language; 7.9% named Crimean Tatar; 3.7% Tatar and 3.3% Ukrainian.



The referendum came after Russian troops (originally denying they were Russian, but now it's pretty much admitted they were) seized a bunch of military and government buildings at gunpoint. No one got to vote on secession before the occupation had already started. That's not peaceful. A referendum vote held AFTER Russia already took over the territory cannot be considered valid or trustworthy.

I don't care about what language people speak or what random people on the street say, that doesn't prove anything about a legitimate process.


That is the problem, your take is very naive and misinformed, largely based on negative stereotypes about Russians.

No, it's based on the facts of what happened, a.k.a. Russia invading and taking various parts of Ukraine without anyone getting a chance to vote on it beforehand. They are the invaders. This has nothing to do with the Russian people, it's the actions of their government.

You want to make it about stereotypes or bigotry or something because it makes it easier for you to defend Putin (or oppose America, I'm not sure which).


It is the locals, people from the Donbas, Crimea and SE Ukraine to say who is the invader. You keep ignoring the history of the region, its ethnic composition, and how territories changed sides under Lenin and Khrushchev, the very basic nature of post-Soviet Ukraine:



What we did to Ukraine was incredibly cynical and cruel, putting in charge the most radical Bandera-worshipping nationalists in Kiev all but insuring a bloody civil war, one that has very predictably led Ukraine and nearly 2 million of their men to their destruction.

Reducing this to "opposing America" or being a Putin toadie is incredibly reductive and naive.


Quote:

Not a fan of the forced conscription, but it's worth noting that none of that would be happening if Russia had not invaded.

Ukrainian leadership could have stopped the war anytime they wanted, even today, instead of throwing thousands of fresh bodies into the meat grinder every month, they simply don't give a crap about their people. That leadership is a mix of fanatical Banderists and corrupt war profiteers, with some naive Ukrainians who thing that they are going to beat Russia militarily with Nato's help. These people are now stuck in the middle and powerless in front of the Banderist junta.

Give it a rest and stop shilling for Putin. It's amazing to me that you love that Putin invaded another country unprovoked but you hate Israel is has done in Gaza.


Every stance Cal88 takes is to weaken and divide America
Cal88
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sycasey said:

calpoly said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:



I think the real war mongers are the one who started the war (Russia).


NATO chief confirms that the Ukraine war started in 2014:


Yes, when Russia annexed Crimea.


Russia annexed Crimea peacefully, through a referendum

No they didn't.




Quote:

According to the 2014 census by occupation authorities, 84% of Crimean inhabitants named Russian as their native language; 7.9% named Crimean Tatar; 3.7% Tatar and 3.3% Ukrainian.



The referendum came after Russian troops (originally denying they were Russian, but now it's pretty much admitted they were) seized a bunch of military and government buildings at gunpoint. No one got to vote on secession before the occupation had already started. That's not peaceful. A referendum vote held AFTER Russia already took over the territory cannot be considered valid or trustworthy.

I don't care about what language people speak or what random people on the street say, that doesn't prove anything about a legitimate process.


That is the problem, your take is very naive and misinformed, largely based on negative stereotypes about Russians.

No, it's based on the facts of what happened, a.k.a. Russia invading and taking various parts of Ukraine without anyone getting a chance to vote on it beforehand. They are the invaders. This has nothing to do with the Russian people, it's the actions of their government.

You want to make it about stereotypes or bigotry or something because it makes it easier for you to defend Putin (or oppose America, I'm not sure which).


It is the locals, people from the Donbas, Crimea and SE Ukraine to say who is the invader. You keep ignoring the history of the region, its ethnic composition, and how territories changed sides under Lenin and Khrushchev, the very basic nature of post-Soviet Ukraine:



What we did to Ukraine was incredibly cynical and cruel, putting in charge the most radical Bandera-worshipping nationalists in Kiev all but insuring a bloody civil war, one that has very predictably led Ukraine and nearly 2 million of their men to their destruction.

Reducing this to "opposing America" or being a Putin toadie is incredibly reductive and naive.


Quote:

Not a fan of the forced conscription, but it's worth noting that none of that would be happening if Russia had not invaded.

Ukrainian leadership could have stopped the war anytime they wanted, even today, instead of throwing thousands of fresh bodies into the meat grinder every month, they simply don't give a crap about their people. That leadership is a mix of fanatical Banderists and corrupt war profiteers, with some naive Ukrainians who thing that they are going to beat Russia militarily with Nato's help. These people are now stuck in the middle and powerless in front of the Banderist junta.

Give it a rest and stop shilling for Putin. It's amazing to me that you love that Putin invaded another country unprovoked but you hate Israel is has done in Gaza.

The only difference is that the US is allied with Israel but not with Russia. It's America Bad logic all the way down.

Russia, of course, has no agency at all according to them.


If Russia started bombing and double-tapping girls schools in Ukraine, or deliberately targeting civilians by the tens of thousands, killing more journalists in Gaza than all the journalists who died in WW11 and WW2 combined, executing and burying medical staff, sniping hundreds of kids in the head, burrying kids alive, as the Israelis have been documented of doing, I would certainly not hesitate to call them out.

Over 90% of Gazans killed were civilians, while less than 2% of Ukrainians killed by Russia were civilians.


Do you not see the difference here?
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

calpoly said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:



I think the real war mongers are the one who started the war (Russia).


NATO chief confirms that the Ukraine war started in 2014:


Yes, when Russia annexed Crimea.


Russia annexed Crimea peacefully, through a referendum

No they didn't.




Quote:

According to the 2014 census by occupation authorities, 84% of Crimean inhabitants named Russian as their native language; 7.9% named Crimean Tatar; 3.7% Tatar and 3.3% Ukrainian.



The referendum came after Russian troops (originally denying they were Russian, but now it's pretty much admitted they were) seized a bunch of military and government buildings at gunpoint. No one got to vote on secession before the occupation had already started. That's not peaceful. A referendum vote held AFTER Russia already took over the territory cannot be considered valid or trustworthy.

I don't care about what language people speak or what random people on the street say, that doesn't prove anything about a legitimate process.


That is the problem, your take is very naive and misinformed, largely based on negative stereotypes about Russians.

No, it's based on the facts of what happened, a.k.a. Russia invading and taking various parts of Ukraine without anyone getting a chance to vote on it beforehand. They are the invaders. This has nothing to do with the Russian people, it's the actions of their government.

You want to make it about stereotypes or bigotry or something because it makes it easier for you to defend Putin (or oppose America, I'm not sure which).


It is the locals, people from the Donbas, Crimea and SE Ukraine to say who is the invader. You keep ignoring the history of the region, its ethnic composition, and how territories changed sides under Lenin and Khrushchev, the very basic nature of post-Soviet Ukraine:



What we did to Ukraine was incredibly cynical and cruel, putting in charge the most radical Bandera-worshipping nationalists in Kiev all but insuring a bloody civil war, one that has very predictably led Ukraine and nearly 2 million of their men to their destruction.

Reducing this to "opposing America" or being a Putin toadie is incredibly reductive and naive.


Quote:

Not a fan of the forced conscription, but it's worth noting that none of that would be happening if Russia had not invaded.

Ukrainian leadership could have stopped the war anytime they wanted, even today, instead of throwing thousands of fresh bodies into the meat grinder every month, they simply don't give a crap about their people. That leadership is a mix of fanatical Banderists and corrupt war profiteers, with some naive Ukrainians who thing that they are going to beat Russia militarily with Nato's help. These people are now stuck in the middle and powerless in front of the Banderist junta.

Give it a rest and stop shilling for Putin. It's amazing to me that you love that Putin invaded another country unprovoked but you hate Israel is has done in Gaza.


Every stance Cal88 takes is to weaken and divide America


You get called all kinds of things if you go don't like endless wars and your taxes going to bomb little girls in Iran and Gaza, you even kept calling me a nazi until the mod set your straight.

When I was calling out Genocide Joe for having started the job on Gaza, you and the other partisan hacks were awfully quiet. That is because America already is hopelessly divided, if anything my positions are about building common ground against endless war, crony capitalism, govt corruption etc.
dajo9
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I never called you a NAZI, I called you a fascist

Also your claims of being a defender of peace are hilarious considering your relentless support of Putin's invasions and wars and Trump
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

Russia did not want to take pieces from Ukraine


I'm going to say that Russia's actions in Ukraine belie this claim.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

calpoly said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:



I think the real war mongers are the one who started the war (Russia).


NATO chief confirms that the Ukraine war started in 2014:


Yes, when Russia annexed Crimea.


Russia annexed Crimea peacefully, through a referendum

No they didn't.




Quote:

According to the 2014 census by occupation authorities, 84% of Crimean inhabitants named Russian as their native language; 7.9% named Crimean Tatar; 3.7% Tatar and 3.3% Ukrainian.



The referendum came after Russian troops (originally denying they were Russian, but now it's pretty much admitted they were) seized a bunch of military and government buildings at gunpoint. No one got to vote on secession before the occupation had already started. That's not peaceful. A referendum vote held AFTER Russia already took over the territory cannot be considered valid or trustworthy.

I don't care about what language people speak or what random people on the street say, that doesn't prove anything about a legitimate process.


That is the problem, your take is very naive and misinformed, largely based on negative stereotypes about Russians.

No, it's based on the facts of what happened, a.k.a. Russia invading and taking various parts of Ukraine without anyone getting a chance to vote on it beforehand. They are the invaders. This has nothing to do with the Russian people, it's the actions of their government.

You want to make it about stereotypes or bigotry or something because it makes it easier for you to defend Putin (or oppose America, I'm not sure which).


It is the locals, people from the Donbas, Crimea and SE Ukraine to say who is the invader. You keep ignoring the history of the region, its ethnic composition, and how territories changed sides under Lenin and Khrushchev, the very basic nature of post-Soviet Ukraine:



What we did to Ukraine was incredibly cynical and cruel, putting in charge the most radical Bandera-worshipping nationalists in Kiev all but insuring a bloody civil war, one that has very predictably led Ukraine and nearly 2 million of their men to their destruction.

Reducing this to "opposing America" or being a Putin toadie is incredibly reductive and naive.


Quote:

Not a fan of the forced conscription, but it's worth noting that none of that would be happening if Russia had not invaded.

Ukrainian leadership could have stopped the war anytime they wanted, even today, instead of throwing thousands of fresh bodies into the meat grinder every month, they simply don't give a crap about their people. That leadership is a mix of fanatical Banderists and corrupt war profiteers, with some naive Ukrainians who thing that they are going to beat Russia militarily with Nato's help. These people are now stuck in the middle and powerless in front of the Banderist junta.

Give it a rest and stop shilling for Putin. It's amazing to me that you love that Putin invaded another country unprovoked but you hate Israel is has done in Gaza.

The only difference is that the US is allied with Israel but not with Russia. It's America Bad logic all the way down.

Russia, of course, has no agency at all according to them.


If Russia started bombing and double-tapping girls schools in Ukraine, or deliberately targeting civilians by the tens of thousands, killing more journalists in Gaza than all the journalists who died in WW11 and WW2 combined, executing and burying medical staff, sniping hundreds of kids in the head, burrying kids alive, as the Israelis have been documented of doing, I would certainly not hesitate to call them out.

Over 90% of Gazans killed were civilians, while less than 2% of Ukrainians killed by Russia were civilians.


Do you not see the difference here?

Oh so if Israel had just killed fewer civilians you would be fine with their actions in Gaza? And their policy in the West Bank?

I don't buy that.
sycasey
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dajo9 said:

I never called you a NAZI, I called you a fascist

Also your claims of being a defender of peace are hilarious considering your relentless support of Putin's invasions and wars and Trump

In fairness, he has clearly turned against Trump.
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

I never called you a NAZI, I called you a fascist


That is a deliberate lie, and you know it.

You claimed that my handle stood for "heil hitler".

That's why I have said many times that you are a man of poor character.
BearlySane88
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Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

I never called you a NAZI, I called you a fascist


That is a deliberate lie, and you know it.

You claimed that my handle stood for "heil hitler".

That's why I have said many times that you are a man of poor character.


It's true, he did it to me also
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

Russia did not want to take pieces from Ukraine


I'm going to say that Russia's actions in Ukraine belie this claim.


The Russians have a country that spans 11 time zones, is by orders of magnitude the richest in resources, and have a relatively small population, which still to this day hasn't fully recovered from the Bolshevik purges and WW2, which killed nearly 40-50 million. They don't lust for territorial conquest, their leadership is instead obsessed with the defense of such a large territory with no physical barriers or natural borders, and a long history of being invaded from the west.

The Russians have offered in April 2022, when they were far deeper into Ukraine and held a lot more Ukrainian territory to withdraw from all the territories they occupied in exchange for Ukrainian neutrality (no NATO), limits on their military and autonomy for the Donbas within a federal Ukrainian framework. This completely belies your claim of the Russian being primarily motivated by land conquest.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

calpoly said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:



I think the real war mongers are the one who started the war (Russia).


NATO chief confirms that the Ukraine war started in 2014:


Yes, when Russia annexed Crimea.


Russia annexed Crimea peacefully, through a referendum

No they didn't.




Quote:

According to the 2014 census by occupation authorities, 84% of Crimean inhabitants named Russian as their native language; 7.9% named Crimean Tatar; 3.7% Tatar and 3.3% Ukrainian.



The referendum came after Russian troops (originally denying they were Russian, but now it's pretty much admitted they were) seized a bunch of military and government buildings at gunpoint. No one got to vote on secession before the occupation had already started. That's not peaceful. A referendum vote held AFTER Russia already took over the territory cannot be considered valid or trustworthy.

I don't care about what language people speak or what random people on the street say, that doesn't prove anything about a legitimate process.


That is the problem, your take is very naive and misinformed, largely based on negative stereotypes about Russians.

No, it's based on the facts of what happened, a.k.a. Russia invading and taking various parts of Ukraine without anyone getting a chance to vote on it beforehand. They are the invaders. This has nothing to do with the Russian people, it's the actions of their government.

You want to make it about stereotypes or bigotry or something because it makes it easier for you to defend Putin (or oppose America, I'm not sure which).


It is the locals, people from the Donbas, Crimea and SE Ukraine to say who is the invader. You keep ignoring the history of the region, its ethnic composition, and how territories changed sides under Lenin and Khrushchev, the very basic nature of post-Soviet Ukraine:



What we did to Ukraine was incredibly cynical and cruel, putting in charge the most radical Bandera-worshipping nationalists in Kiev all but insuring a bloody civil war, one that has very predictably led Ukraine and nearly 2 million of their men to their destruction.

Reducing this to "opposing America" or being a Putin toadie is incredibly reductive and naive.


Quote:

Not a fan of the forced conscription, but it's worth noting that none of that would be happening if Russia had not invaded.

Ukrainian leadership could have stopped the war anytime they wanted, even today, instead of throwing thousands of fresh bodies into the meat grinder every month, they simply don't give a crap about their people. That leadership is a mix of fanatical Banderists and corrupt war profiteers, with some naive Ukrainians who thing that they are going to beat Russia militarily with Nato's help. These people are now stuck in the middle and powerless in front of the Banderist junta.

Give it a rest and stop shilling for Putin. It's amazing to me that you love that Putin invaded another country unprovoked but you hate Israel is has done in Gaza.

The only difference is that the US is allied with Israel but not with Russia. It's America Bad logic all the way down.

Russia, of course, has no agency at all according to them.


If Russia started bombing and double-tapping girls schools in Ukraine, or deliberately targeting civilians by the tens of thousands, killing more journalists in Gaza than all the journalists who died in WW11 and WW2 combined, executing and burying medical staff, sniping hundreds of kids in the head, burrying kids alive, as the Israelis have been documented of doing, I would certainly not hesitate to call them out.

Over 90% of Gazans killed were civilians, while less than 2% of Ukrainians killed by Russia were civilians.


Do you not see the difference here?

Oh so if Israel had just killed fewer civilians you would be fine with their actions in Gaza? And their policy in the West Bank?

I don't buy that.


There was a period in Israel when they had a leadership that was genuinely motivated for a lasting peace with the original inhabitants of Palestine in the form of the 2-state solution, led by Yitzak Rabin. Ever since their crazies assassinated Rabin, it was back to the Greater Israel plan of ethnic cleansing and genocide on the Palestinians.

By contrast, the Russians are largely viewed as liberators in all the territories they have annexed in Ukraine, because they are the same people and the Russophones in Ukraine have been culturally and militarily repressed by the Kiev government, who regards Bandera as their founding father and are vry hostile to their large Russian/russophone minority.

dajo9
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sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

I never called you a NAZI, I called you a fascist

Also your claims of being a defender of peace are hilarious considering your relentless support of Putin's invasions and wars and Trump

In fairness, he has clearly turned against Trump.


Every stance Cal88 takes is to weaken and divide America
dajo9
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Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

I never called you a NAZI, I called you a fascist


That is a deliberate lie, and you know it.

You claimed that my handle stood for "heil hitler".

That's why I have said many times that you are a man of poor character.


I have also posted the ADL explainer on usage of 88.
"88 is used throughout the white supremacist movement, not just neo-nazis"
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/88

I have also flagged your post for the personal insult.
movielover
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dajo9 said:

I never called you a NAZI, I called you a fascist

Also your claims of being a defender of peace are hilarious considering your relentless support of Putin's invasions and wars and Trump


Perspective and history aren't support.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

Russia did not want to take pieces from Ukraine


I'm going to say that Russia's actions in Ukraine belie this claim.


The Russians have a country that spans 11 time zones, is by orders of magnitude the richest in resources, and have a relatively small population, which still to this day hasn't fully recovered from the Bolshevik purges and WW2, which killed nearly 40-50 million. They don't lust for territorial conquest, their leadership is instead obsessed with the defense of such a large territory with no physical barriers or natural borders, and a long history of being invaded from the west.

The Russians have offered in April 2022, when they were far deeper into Ukraine and held a lot more Ukrainian territory to withdraw from all the territories they occupied in exchange for Ukrainian neutrality (no NATO), limits on their military and autonomy for the Donbas within a federal Ukrainian framework. This completely belies your claim of the Russian being primarily motivated by land conquest.

I agree, it was very dumb for Putin to try for land conquest in Ukraine. And yet, he did.
Aunburdened
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sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

I never called you a NAZI, I called you a fascist

Also your claims of being a defender of peace are hilarious considering your relentless support of Putin's invasions and wars and Trump

In fairness, he has clearly turned against Trump.

Fairness is not something dajo9 troubles himself with
movielover
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The MIC is loving their battleground to test new toys and weapons.
sycasey
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dajo9 said:

sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

I never called you a NAZI, I called you a fascist

Also your claims of being a defender of peace are hilarious considering your relentless support of Putin's invasions and wars and Trump

In fairness, he has clearly turned against Trump.


Every stance Cal88 takes is to weaken and divide America

Haha, well that could be it. On the other hand, Trump has been doing a good enough job of that on his own so if that's your goal you should still support him!
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

I never called you a NAZI, I called you a fascist

Also your claims of being a defender of peace are hilarious considering your relentless support of Putin's invasions and wars and Trump

In fairness, he has clearly turned against Trump.


Every stance Cal88 takes is to weaken and divide America


None of my positions on Ukraine, Palestine or Iran differ from those of Prof. Mearsheimer or Jeffrey Sacks, I find myself in complete agreement with their analyses and opinions, who have to a certain extent also shaped mine.

Their positions are based on a combination of deep knowledge of the political situations there and historic backgrounds, along with high ethical standards.
Cal88
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Zelensky's favorite oligarch, Rinat Akhmetov, known for having bought himself a yacht for 500 million dollars, has carried out another interesting act and set a new record.

He bought an apartment in Monaco for 550 million euros.

I would like to remind you what exactly oligarch Akhmetov earns his money from.

He earns money from electricity in Ukraine.

This is the sector to which Brussels sends our European taxes.

This is the sector that, almost every month, receives tens and hundreds of millions of euros "to support Ukraine's energy system."

Just think about it during a war, earning from an industry that we support with our taxes, a person buys a yacht for 500 million, and then an apartment for 550 million."
Cal88
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Fittest men in Ukraine are still managing...



Follow-up: the MSM is starting to report on forced conscription in Ukraine.
Cal88
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sycasey
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Cal88 said:



This is the same argument Israel makes about Hamas/Gaza.
Aunburdened
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:



This is the same argument Israel makes about Hamas/Gaza.

Yes it is and it's as weak here as there.

Best way to cut unnecessary civilian death? Solve your problems with diplomacy instead of letting the EU and US talk into a war you can't win where the odds of survival are so low that able-bodied men would rather flee the country than fight for a war that's only purpose is to enrich Ukrainian oligarchs.
sycasey
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Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:



This is the same argument Israel makes about Hamas/Gaza.

Yes it is and it's as weak here as there.

Best way to cut unnecessary civilian death? Solve your problems with diplomacy instead of letting the EU and US talk into a war you can't win where the odds of survival are so low that able-bodied men would rather flee the country than fight for a war that's only purpose is to enrich Ukrainian oligarchs.

Ukraine didn't start the war.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:



This is the same argument Israel makes about Hamas/Gaza.


Several differences though:

-Allegations of Hamas use of schools and hospitals not proven. Nothing like the evidence above. I've had this argument with Unit3Sucks and the best he could come up with was one incident a decade ago where some light arms were hidden in a school closet. Schools and hospitals in Gaza are supervised by NGOs like UNWRA who understand that any military use of these facilities will endanger their mission and force a shutdown.

-The Israelis bomb and destroy schools and hospitals regardless, stories of Hamas tunnels have been a cover.

-The Russians do not target schools or hospitals. More schools and hospitals in Iran were destroyed in the first week of that war than in 4 years in Ukraine.
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