Friggin terrifying that that is considered moderate reasonable conservatism--what she accepts and justifies. But yes, she is the better of several hundred other evils.

DiabloWags said:

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Once again, Ms. Noonan nails it.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/january-6-trump-voters-election-fraud-lies-2024-presidential-candidate-hillary-clinton-11655415629?st=lmiko5h1x9iw8em&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

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Noonan knows the inevitable is coming but she can't accept it and sounds like she's in denial. At least she acknowledges the Afghanistan withdrawal disaster, inflation, and the border. But she fails to see that Americans don't care about the same things the Democrats in DC do.

blungld said:

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Friggin terrifying that that is considered moderate reasonable conservatism--what she accepts and justifies. But yes, she is the better of several hundred other evils.

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Noonan:
" …start with the obvious. I never meet Americans who love America more than Trump people do. They really love its history, what it means in the world, what it's done."*

Reply: How do you think the average tRump supporter, much less tRump himself, would do on a standardized high school civics or history exam?

*Is she being sarcastic and it went over my head?

bearister said:

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blungld said:

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Friggin terrifying that that is considered moderate reasonable conservatism--what she accepts and justifies. But yes, she is the better of several hundred other evils.

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Noonan:
" …start with the obvious. I never meet Americans who love America more than Trump people do. They really love its history, what it means in the world, what it's done."*

Reply: How do you think the average tRump supporter, much less tRump himself, would do on a standardized high school civics or history exam?

*Is she being sarcastic and it went over my head?

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It's hard to discern because she should be terribly aware that the average Trump supporter is extremely ignorant, is an isolationist, and couldnt care any less about American exceptionalism.

Maybe she had one too many glasses of wine?

Peggy Noonan has always been one of the most sane, objective writers in America. She is one of my heroes. Her prose is unsurpassed. If she were President, we would all sleep better. She is a great patriot. She understands Trump. She also understand that the Demos have been coming off the guard rails for about 50 years..

Blun.....You look awfully white..Prove you are not a white supremacist.

DiabloWags said:

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blungld said:

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DiabloWags said:

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I think she was speaking to how genuine the feelings for America that Trumpers have.

I would have left it at that.
But she embellished.

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If the underlying truth or beliefs are false, ignorant, or misplaced, can it still be genuine? Can you be genuine in your white supremacy for example?

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Yes.
The feelings that Trumpers have are indeed authentic.
The underlying beliefs are not required to be true in order for their feelings to be authentic.
The Religious Right Wing is emblematic of this.

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In the America that I grew up learning to love, we were taught that a great strength of this country is the ideas which we were founded on and that forged our democratic (small "d") system of government. Also that, when push came to shove, we would come together as a people and make necessary sacrifices for the common good.

I never heard anything about elections being valid only if your guy won, or that the President of Russia's word can be taken over that of our own officials, or that thugs trying to subvert our government is a good thing.

Big C said:

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DiabloWags said:

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blungld said:

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DiabloWags said:

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I think she was speaking to how genuine the feelings for America that Trumpers have.

I would have left it at that.
But she embellished.

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If the underlying truth or beliefs are false, ignorant, or misplaced, can it still be genuine? Can you be genuine in your white supremacy for example?

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Yes.
The feelings that Trumpers have are indeed authentic.
The underlying beliefs are not required to be true in order for their feelings to be authentic.
The Religious Right Wing is emblematic of this.

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In the America that I grew up learning to love, we were taught that a great strength of this country are the ideas which we were founded on and that forged our democratic (small "d") system of government. Also that, when push came to shove, we would come together as a people and make necessary sacrifices for the common good.

I never heard anything about elections being valid only if your guy won, or that the President of Russia's word can be taken over that of our own officials, or that thugs trying to subvert our government is a good thing.

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I used to have a lot of hope and confidence about the future of America. Now I'm just hoping we can make it another 20 years until the current angry and bitter anti-democracy sociopaths move on to MAGA purgatory. Maybe things will improve after that.

big C...Indeed!!!!!So how come you are not a Republican??You have the right goals and ideas....just the wrong party. Please see this November..

Why is it so difficult for Cal grads to separate Trumpism from Trump?????Trump pledged to defeat the SWAMP in Washington. He had some success and a lot of misses. But, normal, sane Republican voters as well as many independent voters can easily separate the man from his political instincts and accomplishments over a four-year period.
Basically, a good economy
Got NATO to start paying their fair share
No new wars or stupid wars
Got north Korea to stop firing missiles into the sea of Japan
No Russian Ukraine on his watch
No China rehearsals to take over Taiwan
No flooding of illegals on our Southern border
No stagflation ( combo of inflation and recession)
made himself available to the people for press conferences
Helped Israel at every opportunity
Installed judges who are faithful to the constitution
did not coddle China at every opportunity
Was the driving force behind Operation Warp speed
cut taxes for everybody
Cut business regulations


yes...I am aware of his imperfections. And, yes, I am aware that Jan 6th would not have happened without him.
And, I am aware that his personal style caused much chaos in the Oval Office.
But, as typed above, I am also aware that he was largely a one-man gang in fighting the bi-partisan SWAMP in DC which has oppressed and alienated so many helpless Americans. Sometimes, the great American people fought back..In 2010 the people fought back. With Obama in power, Republicans CRUSHED the demos both in the House and the Senate. same thing happened with Bill Clinton. At least he got the message!!!!!! ok!!!OK!!!!I'll stop the bat s*** craziness of my party...Biden has NOT STOPPED THE BAT S*** craziness of his party. He and his party will pay the price this November...amazing Cal grads cannot figure these things out!!!

helltopay1 said:

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Why is it so difficult for Cal grads to separate Trumpism from Trump?????Trump pledged to defeat the SWAMP in Washington. He had some success and a lot of misses. But, normal, sane Republican voters as well as many independent voters can easily separate the man from his political instincts and accomplishments over a four-year period.
Basically, a good economy
Got NATO to start paying their fair share
No new wars or stupid wars
Got north Korea to stop firing missiles into the sea of Japan
No Russian Ukraine on his watch
No China rehearsals to take over Taiwan
No flooding of illegals on our Southern border
No stagflation ( combo of inflation and recession)
made himself available to the people for press conferences
Helped Israel at every opportunity
Installed judges who are faithful to the constitution
did not coddle China at every opportunity
Was the driving force behind Operation Warp speed
cut taxes for everybody
Cut business regulations


yes...I am aware of his imperfections. And, yes, I am aware that Jan 6th would not have happened without him.
And, I am aware that his personal style caused much chaos in the Oval Office.
But, as typed above, I am also aware that he was largely a one-man gang in fighting the bi-partisan SWAMP in DC which has oppressed and alienated so many helpless Americans. Sometimes, the great American people fought back..In 2010 the people fought back. With Obama in power, Republicans CRUSHED the demos both in the House and the Senate. same thing happened with Bill Clinton. At least he got the message!!!!!! ok!!!OK!!!!I'll stop the bat s*** craziness of my party...Biden has NOT STOPPED THE BAT S*** craziness of his party. He and his party will pay the price this November...amazing Cal grads cannot figure these things out!!!

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Hey helltopay1! Here's about 20 more examples of you lying. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to point out and explain it to you now. Besides, if I did, you would ignore it and keep posting this s*h*i*t again in a day or two, so why bother?

As for separating Trump from Trumpism, I don't any evidence that Trumpists like you are doing it. Who's the leading GOP 2024 Presidential candidate?

Every word I typed was true.....

I really like Peggy Noonan. I like the style of her writing and usually the substance. But to think that the typical Trump voter gives two poops about what she writes/thinks is quite hysterical. Her advocating against him makes the trump voters like him more.

Trump exists precisely because the Noonans of the world were (and still are) swampy/establishment republicans.

My hope is that Trump doesn't run and if he does, that he loses in the primary. If he's the candidate, whether he wins will be largely a function of who he runs against. He will defeat Biden, Kamala, and probably Buttigieg. If the Dems nominate a more mainstream/likable/seemingly competent candidate (Gavin Newsom?), then Trump will very likley lose (assuming the economy is only bad and not awful).

Biden won because he was more likable and perceived as moderate and competent (turns out for both, not so much). Trump will have a hard time beating a quality candidate because his negatives are so high. Can the dems find such a candidate?

And for the record, I think the dems are praying that Trump is the candidate. If the republicans manage to nominate a strong candidate (DeSantis being the obvious choice, but there are others), he/she will beat virtually anyone the dems can nominate.

DiabloWags said:

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dajo9 said:

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BearGoggles said:

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I really like Peggy Noonan. I like the style of her writing and usually the substance. But to think that the typical Trump voter gives two poops about what she writes/thinks is quite hysterical. Her advocating against him makes the trump voters like him more.

Trump exists precisely because the Noonans of the world were (and still are) swampy/establishment republicans.

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Peggy Noonan is the voice of the few establishment Republicans out there who no longer have a meaningful political party in America because they no longer have any meaningful voting constituency because their policies and Presidents have been miserable failures.

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This is funny, yet oh so predictable from you.

You sure are giving a lot of credibility to MAGA morons who barely made it through high school.
That is unless you're claiming that the successful "policies" of Trump were spreading racism and white nationalism.
It's funny to hear someone imply that the Republican Party has lost its way because of MAGA morons who understand "policy".

lol

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People know they've been losing out since the advent of the conservative economic policies brought on by Reagan and people also know we've been in stupid wars. It doesn't take a policy genius to understand that. And yes, the "successful" policies of of Trump have been to turn that discontent into typical fascist scapegoating though Trump mostly implements the same failed economic policies.

helltopay1 said:

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Every word I typed was a word.....

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FIFY

76BearsFly said:

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...Americans who are fed up with heavy-handed government telling them how to think...

...marginalized by the Washington elite ruling class and their bureaucracy or "deep state"...

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Yes, if there's one thing no one can accuse Trump and his media support propaganda machine of is telling people how to think. It's a signature of Trumpism the ability to listen and talk freely and openly and that there are no orthodox tribal speaking points that should you contradict or question will result in you being portrayed as traitor or RINO. All thoughts and words welcome should be the MAGA motto!

Oh, but any person using the term "deep state" non-ironically has just flagged themselves as a dupe. It's amazing that Trump and his administration ran the election and government for 4 years and he is the all powerful Oz and the only one who could save America and yet there was still a Deep State (where and who are they again exactly? Boogeymen?) that conducted the election and ran his government. It seems one could make the claim that if Trump was subject to the Deep State and their election, then he wasn't in charge and can't take credit for anything you listed and/or he is ineffectual and incompetent. Which is it?