Supreme Court Votes 6 - 3 to Overturn Casey and Roe

68,148 Views | 623 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by chazzed
dajo9
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The big government conservative republican war on women continues. Brittany Watts was told by her doctor her pregnancy was nonviable and would miscarry. When she miscarried into the toilet (an occurrence that happens all the time in America) she tried to flush the baby down but it got stuck in the pipes. She has been arrested and charged with a felony for abuse of corpse in big government conservative republican Ohio.

Big government conservative republicans need to stop criminalizing the dangerous act of reproduction.
https://www.tribtoday.com/news/local-news/2023/12/warren-woman-receives-national-attention/
concordtom
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When I was in college, I got into a Christian phase trying to be a better person. A young guy was trying to counsel and mentor me. He was maybe 24? He was married and he told me that his wife miscarried into the toilet. I asked what it looked like and what they did, being the curious fellow I am. He teared up as he was telling me this. It was a quite intimate story. I wanted to know details, like, if one could see something that resembled a body or was it more like a chicken egg or… heck, I was a 20 year old idiot, pre-internet research capability. Mind you, I didn't ask specifics.

Point is, he said, "I dunno, I didn't poke around."

They just flushed whatever it was down, and cried. That was their instinctive response.

I think she had experienced some cramping earlier that day before it was naturally expelled. And it was early on, definitely not yet showing.

So, yes, this happens ALL THE TIME.
But people who don't know much about how it works, like a plumber, could take it for murder, because they don't understand.

I dunno the particulars of this case, but it's so sad how ignorance prevails in America at a time when it doesn't have to.

That describes the current GOP.
dajo9
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concordtom said:

When I was in college, I got into a Christian phase trying to be a better person. A young guy was trying to counsel and mentor me. He was maybe 24? He was married and he told me that his wife miscarried into the toilet. I asked what it looked like and what they did, being the curious fellow I am. He teared up as he was telling me this. It was a quite intimate story. I wanted to know details, like, if one could see something that resembled a body or was it more like a chicken egg or… heck, I was a 20 year old idiot, pre-internet research capability. Mind you, I didn't ask specifics.

Point is, he said, "I dunno, I didn't poke around."

They just flushed whatever it was down, and cried. That was their instinctive response.

I think she had experienced some cramping earlier that day before it was naturally expelled. And it was early on, definitely not yet showing.

So, yes, this happens ALL THE TIME.
But people who don't know much about how it works, like a plumber, could take it for murder, because they don't understand.

I dunno the particulars of this case, but it's so sad how ignorance prevails in America at a time when it doesn't have to.

That describes the current GOP.



Thank you for sharing. Now imagine that friend of yours having his wife arrested and charged with a felony. That is Trump's legacy.
concordtom
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Wow. It's worth pasting portions of the story.


"When the bleeding and the pain from the impending miscarriage got severe, she did the same thing that many women who miscarry at home do. Brittany went into her bathroom, miscarried into her toilet and flushed."

A nurse from St. Joseph Warren Hospital called 911 after Watts came there suffering "life-threatening hemorrhaging," later leading to police investigating and charging Watts, who had no previous criminal history, with a felony offense.

Guarnieri argued in favor of having the case move forward in court, saying that the state did not have to prove fetal viability, citing a portion of Ohio Revised Code that reads, "no person, except as authorized by law, shall treat a human corpse in a way that would outrage reasonable community sensibilities."

Warren Municipal Court Judge Terry Ivanchak agreed, determining there was probable cause for the case to be bound over to the grand jury.

The judge stated during the hearing, "There are better scholars than I am to determine the exact legal status of this fetus, corpse, body, birthing tissue, whatever it is."

Timko previously said that no law requires a mother suffering from a miscarriage of a nonviable fetus to bury or cremate the remains.

"Women miscarry into toilets everyday. If the state of Ohio expects these women to fish those remains from the toilet and deliver them to a hospital, funeral home or crematorium, the laws need changed," Timko said, adding that "we aren't there yet."

She further stated, "Regardless of politics or religion, this matter hinges on the law. It is a travesty that Brittany (Watts) was charged and we will continue to fight."

Her client's fate now rests in the hands of a grand jury that will determine whether to indict Watts on felony charges, which would take case to the next step of being presented to a Trumbull County Common Pleas court judge.

Over the past few months, Watts has seen one of most private, intimate moments of her life become the center of a national debate over the criminalization of pregnancy, but also has been met with thousands of people showing support.


1. "Outrage in community sensibilities."
I found that an interesting bar to leap. Who's to say ? I'm outraged that people vote for Trump. Let's use that to jail them!!!

2. "Whatever it is."
The judge sounds about as wise as my 20 year old idiot self!

3. "Fish remains from a toilet."
Yeah, that's just cruel!!!!
The couple/woman can be emotionally devastated, but now the law requires her to be a CSI investigator.

"How come my poop isn't brown? I'd better Fish it out and bring to the hospital for investigation."

"Uh, either you have severe hemorrhoids or you are a murderer, Ms Smith."

What a joke, as in absurd, not haha funny.
dajo9
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Big government conservative republican Texas supreme court Justice, who will give a thumbs up or thumbs down on Kate Cox life, bragging about being arrested 37 times at abortion clinics, presumably harassing women
https://www.threads.net/@betoorourke/post/C0snS0eNjHo/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
dajo9
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The Texas Supreme Court has ruled against Kate Cox who has fled the state of Texas to receive a medically required abortion. I guess she is maybe now a fugitive in her home state of Texas that clearly didn't care about her life. The Texas death panel has ruled against her. That is what happens when you "let the states decide" your own personal matters. Disgusting. Awful. Putrid.
https://www.threads.net/@ecmclaughlin/post/C0u80hyJXyD/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
Unit2Sucks
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dajo9 said:

The Texas Supreme Court has ruled against Kate Cox who has fled the state of Texas to receive a medically required abortion. I guess she is now a fugitive in her home state of Texas that clearly didn't care about her life. The Texas death panel has ruled against her. That is what happens when you "let the states decide" your own personal matters. Disgusting. Awful. Putrid.
https://www.threads.net/@ecmclaughlin/post/C0u80hyJXyD/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
The GOP spent 50 years working toward this goal and wants to enjoy the spoils of victory. This wasn't an unforeseen consequence - it's an acceptable casualty of their radical theocracy.

As long as men aren't dying, the radical clerics will stick to their make believe historical sources and women will continue to suffer.
sycasey
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dajo9 said:

The Texas Supreme Court has ruled against Kate Cox who has fled the state of Texas to receive a medically required abortion. I guess she is maybe now a fugitive in her home state of Texas that clearly didn't care about her life. The Texas death panel has ruled against her. That is what happens when you "let the states decide" your own personal matters. Disgusting. Awful. Putrid.
https://www.threads.net/@ecmclaughlin/post/C0u80hyJXyD/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
I can't imagine the politics of this are good for Republicans, but maybe it won't matter because it's Texas.
Unit2Sucks
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Some people have given me flack for calling some of these judges radical clerics, but how would you describe this guy? Arrested 37 times for protesting abortion clinics and previously under fire for refusing to take down the ten commandments which he posted in his court room.

Many conservatives complain that the judges selected for Trump's numerous trials should be recused because one time they donated $15 to a democrat or said something mean about Trump, but I haven't seen a single one claim that an anti-abortion crusader should recuse himself from abortion related cases.


dajo9
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An ad from MAGA
Mothers Against Greg Abbott
Roevember is coming
https://www.threads.net/@calltoactivism/post/C2dMX1gR3Xc/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
Unit2Sucks
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Remember the conservatives who told us that eventually the law would settle and until then some women would be impacted?

Well, this number doesn't even seem possible, but the Houston Chronicle is reporting that a study estimated 26,000 women in Texas have become pregnant by rape since Republicans in Texas took away women's bodily autonomy.






calbear93
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sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

The Texas Supreme Court has ruled against Kate Cox who has fled the state of Texas to receive a medically required abortion. I guess she is maybe now a fugitive in her home state of Texas that clearly didn't care about her life. The Texas death panel has ruled against her. That is what happens when you "let the states decide" your own personal matters. Disgusting. Awful. Putrid.
https://www.threads.net/@ecmclaughlin/post/C0u80hyJXyD/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
I can't imagine the politics of this are good for Republicans, but maybe it won't matter because it's Texas.
I think as toxic as abortion will be for Republicans, immigration will be just as toxic for Democrats in places like Texas and Arizona.

If I had to guess on some key issues (and more on how voters are feeling and not on charts and details) on key states, I would say in order of priority:

1. Economy and who can lead it better.
2. Immigration.
3. Crime and safety
4. Foreign affairs, and how much safer the world seems and how much we seem to care more about foreign affairs than domestic affairs (again gut feeling as opposed to deep thinkers thinking long-term considerations that what happens outside our borders will impact what happens within our borders).
5. Abortion.
6. Age / competency.
7. Scare tactics and social war.


What do you think will matter the most when people actually go to vote in the swing states (not CA or Alabama). Texas at one point was creeping up to be a purple state, and Florida was a purple state but I would consider both as pretty much red at this point.

Unit2Sucks
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More radical clerics at work - this time in Alabama. So IVF is now declared unconstitutional in Alabama because judges say the bible says god says so.

It wasn't long ago that "reasonable" conservatives said that democrats were fear-mongering about the GOP coming for contraception but that day has already arrived and women and families will suffer because theocrats want to force their version of their religion on everyone else.


concordtom
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Unit2Sucks said:

More radical clerics at work - this time in Alabama. So IVF is now declared unconstitutional in Alabama…..



Alabama is going to guarantee that the GOP loses everywhere.
dajo9
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Happy Roevember to the state of Florida. Women's rights will be on the ballot.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna142568
Unit2Sucks
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dajo9 said:

Happy Roevember to the state of Florida. Women's rights will be on the ballot.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna142568
This is a huge risk to the GOP. I imagine Trump is fuming right now and he and Desantis will do everything they can to remove this from the ballot. According to Pew, 56% of Floridians support abortion rights while only 39% oppose them (which is a pretty massive gap).

Assuming they are unsuccessful in removing this from the ballot, we will find out if Florida is really a deep red state or not. Obviously if Florida flips because of this, Biden would be re-elected in a landslide.
dajo9
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Happy Roevember to the state of Arizona. Women's rights will be on the ballot.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna145922
Unit2Sucks
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I hope the dems can put abortion on the ballot every 4 years like the GOP did for 50 years. How many times can the GOP's anti-women's rights position be repudiated before the accept that imposing their minority view on everyone else isn't "freedom"?
tequila4kapp
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dajo9 said:

Happy Roevember to the state of Arizona. Women's rights will be on the ballot.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna145922
Roe is not about women's rights. Roe clearly discusses a competing interest between abortion rights and the state's interest in the future life. Trimesters were the measuring stick.

Casey turned abortion into a women's right issue.

Roe had it about right. We should go back to that.
tequila4kapp
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Unit2Sucks said:

I hope the dems can put abortion on the ballot every 4 years like the GOP did for 50 years. How many times can the GOP's anti-women's rights position be repudiated before the accept that imposing their minority view on everyone else isn't "freedom"?
This is fabulous. Seriously. A non-existent Constitutional right is left to the will of the people. People are making their voices heard. The system is working.
Unit2Sucks
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tequila4kapp said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I hope the dems can put abortion on the ballot every 4 years like the GOP did for 50 years. How many times can the GOP's anti-women's rights position be repudiated before the accept that imposing their minority view on everyone else isn't "freedom"?
This is fabulous. Seriously. A non-existent Constitutional right is left to the will of the people. People are making their voices heard. The system is working.
Pretty callous take. Tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of women have been negatively impacted by this decision. In Texas alone, there have been over 25k pregnancies resulting from rape where women have not had a choice in their outcome. Even women who chose to become pregnant have suffered when their pregnancies went wrong. Many have died. I don't think they should have to suffer because SCOTUS decided to interpret the constitution differently than it had been interpreted for the last decade (eg since before any person who will ever become pregnant had been born).

And you are right, this isn't just a women's issue. Men have lost their wives, sisters and mothers to this horrible regressive situation.

Acting like this is just some success story for direct democracy ignores the miscarriage of justice that SCOTUS imposed on this country.
tequila4kapp
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The federal right to an abortion was a constitutional myth created by an activist court.

We were taught the sacrosanct nature of precedent in law school. That concept is way overplayed. See the number of precedents reversed over the years, especially during the liberal court era of the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s: https://constitution.congress.gov/resources/decisions-overruled/

Getting the law right is always right, which is exactly what the current SCOTUS did.

I do not agree with the status of many state regulatory schemes. Vote. If you are a sexually active person have an emergency fund to cover travel to an abortion friendly state. Yes, that's absurd. See the part about voting.
tequila4kapp
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We had a pretty weird and legally interesting abortion decision out of Arizona today, reflecting the unusual legislative history in that state. A civil war era law outlawed abortion. That law was re-codified in the 1970s. The law was enjoined from enforcement following Roe. Statutes were passed reflecting federal law following Roe. None of those laws repealed the original or the recodified law. Post Dobbs the injunction was lifted, creating a statutory conflict. The court decided the original law survives.
Unit2Sucks
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tequila4kapp said:

The federal right to an abortion was a constitutional myth created by an activist court.

We were taught the sacrosanct nature of precedent in law school. That concept is way overplayed. See the number of precedents reversed over the years, especially during the liberal court era of the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s: https://constitution.congress.gov/resources/decisions-overruled/

Getting the law right is always right, which is exactly what the current SCOTUS did.

I do not agree with the status of many state regulatory schemes. Vote. If you are a sexually active person have an emergency fund to cover travel to an abortion friendly state. Yes, that's absurd. See the part about voting.
It was a fundamental right protected for 50 years before anti-democratic activists flipped the court to take rights away from women.

Depending on your point of view, everything is a constitutional myth. The 2nd amendment wasn't intended to allow gravy seals to shop at walmart, it was for well regulated militias, with one of their primary functions being to keep slaves in check. The court has greatly expanded the scope and importance of the 2nd amendment in recent decades between Heller and Bruen, but you can pretend like it's not a myth. Do you think the framers wanted to arm people for political violence?



For the last 50 years, until Leonard Leo's billionaire-funded takeover of SCOTUS, a woman's right to make her own pregnancy-related healthcare decisions was enshrined in the constitution, according to the people who actually interpret the constitution - SCOTUS.

As for your callous interpretation that people should have an emergency fund if they are sexually active - can you let me know how much you think young girls should save up in case they become pregnant via rape? Did you chastise the 10 year old in Ohio who required an out of state abortion because she didn't use her allowance for an emergency fund? What about the tens of thousands of rape victims who have become pregnant in Texas since SCOTUS changed the interpretation of the constitution? What about the fact that Texas wants to prosecute people who actually go out of state for healthcare, as you've recommended.

Your post, in light of what has actually happened in the wake of Dobbs, is disappointing to say the least. We all know what the consequences could be from the court taking this action and to be honest it's been as bad or worse than expected. At the time it happened, people like you (maybe even you specifically in this thread) brushed that off and said that the democratic process would suffice and that eventually people in some states will have rights. Well, it's going to take years for that to happen, and in many states it won't happen, but you can feel good about the democratic process while thousands of lives are ruined.
tequila4kapp
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Unit2Sucks said:


For the last 50 years, until Leonard Leo's billionaire-funded takeover of SCOTUS, a woman's right to make her own pregnancy-related healthcare decisions was enshrined in the constitution, according to the people who actually interpret the constitution - SCOTUS.
And what of the Constitutional right to an abortion for the preceding 196 years before Roe? The people who actually interpret the constitution - SCOTUS - didn't merely overlook that section of the document for 2 centuries. Somehow history only starts in 1973 for too many people.

FWIW my statement about a travel fund did not account for rape victims because I wouldn't consider a rape victim to be 'sexually active' person. And state laws that don't account for rape are wrong, IMO.
Unit2Sucks
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tequila4kapp said:

Unit2Sucks said:


For the last 50 years, until Leonard Leo's billionaire-funded takeover of SCOTUS, a woman's right to make her own pregnancy-related healthcare decisions was enshrined in the constitution, according to the people who actually interpret the constitution - SCOTUS.
And what of the Constitutional right to an abortion for the preceding 196 years before Roe? The people who actually interpret the constitution - SCOTUS - didn't merely overlook that section of the document for 2 centuries. Somehow history only starts in 1973 for too many people.

FWIW my statement about a travel fund did not account for rape victims because I wouldn't consider a rape victim to be 'sexually active' person. And state laws that don't account for rape are wrong, IMO.
How many people currently of child-bearing age alive during those 196 years? And by the way, abortion was legal under common law when the constitution was drafted and remained so until a random group of doctors went on a crusade in the mid 1800's to end abortion in a few dozen states. Benjamin Franklin even published a recipe for abortion for crying out loud. Abortion wasn't that controversial in the early days of the country.

I do agree with you that when given a chance to vote, people should exercise that right. It's apparent that when done so, they have been. There hasn't been a single state where the anti-abortion stance has survived an election. Unfortunately, people who don't think women have a right to make their own healthcare decisions continue to do everything in their power to control women. And until that right is protected under law, the way it used to be, American families (including men who love women) will suffer.

Also I think it's important for rape victims who are forced to bring fetuses with genetic abnormalities to term, and to care for those children into adulthood that they should have thought about that before they were raped by their stepfathers as pre-teens. Have they stopped teaching tweens about how to save their money to be responsible when they hit puberty?

Sounds like this.


dajo9
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Traitor Trump flip flops on women's rights again
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-arizona-abortion_n_66159586e4b035c82d271561
Unit2Sucks
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dajo9 said:

Traitor Trump flip flops on women's rights again
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-arizona-abortion_n_66159586e4b035c82d271561
Too bad Trump isn't demanding that his peons in AZ follow what he said today and not what he said previously. It's almost like he doesn't believe in anything except trying to pick the exact lie to tell in any given situation that he thinks will be the best received by his target audience.


chazzed
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Yeah, it's a classic case of attempted damage control by TFG.

Trump says Republicans always wanted to leave abortion law to states. That's false.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-republicans-always-wanted-130000491
 
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