The MAGA meltdown continues to deliver. Trump deserves all the bad that is coming his way.

they just did https://t.co/bGmTDOd3EQ pic.twitter.com/6rYTEKvrWk

— sam (@sam_d_1995) August 9, 2022

DiabloWags said:

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BearForce2 said:

---

GoOskie said:

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BearForce2 said:

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What are you drinking on a Monday night Gooskie?

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Drinking ice water and having a grand ol time tonight!

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Was it grand when the Nazis rounded up Jews?

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FLAGGED.

---

Won't do any good. They've already reviewed these threads and endorsed this message.
Don't quote Tommy Boy though, that's beyond the pale of decorum allowed here.

FYI - You can click on the profile pic to the left of a username to unhide a post.

DiabloWags said:

---

Hahahahahhaaaaa!

If anyone wants to see the WARRANT and what it was based on, Trump should simply release it.
It was left at his home by the FBI which is standard operating procedure when executing a warrant.

The MAGA MELTDOWN continues!

---

DOJ must immediately explain the reason for its raid & it must be more than a search for inconsequential archives or it will be viewed as a political tactic and undermine any future credible investigation & legitimacy of January 6 investigations.

— Andrew Cuomo (@andrewcuomo) August 9, 2022

Andrew Cuomo is not MAGA.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Yeah, I can't imagine Merrick Garland - who had to approve this - would go out on a limb unless they had a bulletproof reason. As I stated in the other thread, unless they are checking the sewer for sharpie notes they are unlikely to find anything because Trump isn't particularly literate. This definitely ups the likelihood that the FBI already has the goods and they were just doing the search as a formality.

Lots of options here, everything from classified documents to other crimes, but whatever it is, the judge who issued the warrant would've been rigous about determining there was sufficient probable caused to support it.

— Joyce Alene (@JoyceWhiteVance) August 8, 2022

I hope when he is eventually arrested that they don't protect his head when they load him in to the car. Just following his orders right?

---

Arresting a former president when the opposition party has the white house sets such a horrible precedent.

This better be a criminal, air-tight case.

Otherwise, one can expect Biden, Clinton, etc. to be indicted when a Republican is in the white house. At the very least, everyone associated with Biden will be subject to unannounced search warrants. We see this in other less than Democratic countries, especially since there is a crime that could be charged against almost everyone.

This makes a peaceful transition of power even more tenuous.

Not sure I have that much confidence in this administration to make the right type of political call on this, especially when this could have some serious ramification.

I hope it is clear what I think of Trump. I am expressing concern for the future of our democracy and not for him - the same concern that made me despise Trump. I hope this is not some political pressure and expediency, especially since I am not too confident about the Democrat's ability to think beyond the next move.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Yeah, I can't imagine Merrick Garland - who had to approve this - would go out on a limb unless they had a bulletproof reason. As I stated in the other thread, unless they are checking the sewer for sharpie notes they are unlikely to find anything because Trump isn't particularly literate. This definitely ups the likelihood that the FBI already has the goods and they were just doing the search as a formality.

Lots of options here, everything from classified documents to other crimes, but whatever it is, the judge who issued the warrant would've been rigous about determining there was sufficient probable caused to support it.

— Joyce Alene (@JoyceWhiteVance) August 8, 2022

I hope when he is eventually arrested that they don't protect his head when they load him in to the car. Just following his orders right?

---

Arresting a former president when the opposition party has the white house sets such a horrible precedent.

This better be a criminal, air-tight case.

Otherwise, one can expect Biden, Clinton, etc. to be indicted when a Republican is in the white house. At the very least, everyone associated with Biden will be subject to unannounced search warrants. We see this in other less than Democratic countries, especially since there is a crime that could be charged against almost everyone.

This makes a peaceful transition of power even more tenuous.

Not sure I have that much confidence in this administration to make the right type of political call on this, especially when this could have some serious ramification.

I hope it is clear what I think of Trump. I am expressing concern for the future of our democracy and not for him - the same concern that made me despise Trump. I hope this is not some political pressure and expediency, especially since I am not too confident about the Democrat's ability to think beyond the next move.

---

If Biden or any political people in his administration were responsible, then I completely agree. Given how weak and careful Merrick Garland has been, I have a hard time believing there were any shenanigans here. There is zero reason to believe that there was any political motivation for this warrant and search.

The FBI issued multiple search warrants while investigating Hillary Clinton's email "scandal" and I don't recall any Republicans raising their hand to complain. I don't recall Democrats melting down over search warrants.

The judge who approved the warrant is being attacked by right wing whack jobs, but he was appointed under the Trump administration. Trump appointed Christopher Wray. This isn't some deep state political operation.

I have no doubt that if we as a country are dumb enough to let Trump anywhere near the white house he will spend all of his time using his political muscle to punish his enemies, of which there are many. That's basically what he did during his first 4 years but he wasn't very persuasive and was stopped by people with a semblance of loyalty to law and order and our country.

But just because Trump and the GOP will justify political abuses of the wheels of justice doesn't mean we have to pretend that's what is happening here.

---

Look, I am all for no one being above the law. I am a very strong believer in law and order.

However, I am hopeful that this will lead to a very imminent arrest with a very strong, almost treason-type of charge against Trump and he is convicted in a transparent and open trial.

If this flames out without an arrest, this was a horrible precedent, and Biden and his whole family better be ready if and when a Republican has the white house. They will have no moral standing or reference to norms to defend themselves.

This should make everyone on both sides nervous, but I suspect too many Democrats won't see around the corner or plan for anything beyond this move.

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Yeah, I can't imagine Merrick Garland - who had to approve this - would go out on a limb unless they had a bulletproof reason. As I stated in the other thread, unless they are checking the sewer for sharpie notes they are unlikely to find anything because Trump isn't particularly literate. This definitely ups the likelihood that the FBI already has the goods and they were just doing the search as a formality.

Lots of options here, everything from classified documents to other crimes, but whatever it is, the judge who issued the warrant would've been rigous about determining there was sufficient probable caused to support it.

— Joyce Alene (@JoyceWhiteVance) August 8, 2022

I hope when he is eventually arrested that they don't protect his head when they load him in to the car. Just following his orders right?

---

Arresting a former president when the opposition party has the white house sets such a horrible precedent.

This better be a criminal, air-tight case.

Otherwise, one can expect Biden, Clinton, etc. to be indicted when a Republican is in the white house. At the very least, everyone associated with Biden will be subject to unannounced search warrants. We see this in other less than Democratic countries, especially since there is a crime that could be charged against almost everyone.

This makes a peaceful transition of power even more tenuous.

Not sure I have that much confidence in this administration to make the right type of political call on this, especially when this could have some serious ramification.

I hope it is clear what I think of Trump. I am expressing concern for the future of our democracy and not for him - the same concern that made me despise Trump. I hope this is not some political pressure and expediency, especially since I am not too confident about the Democrat's ability to think beyond the next move.

---

If Biden or any political people in his administration were responsible, then I completely agree. Given how weak and careful Merrick Garland has been, I have a hard time believing there were any shenanigans here. There is zero reason to believe that there was any political motivation for this warrant and search.

The FBI issued multiple search warrants while investigating Hillary Clinton's email "scandal" and I don't recall any Republicans raising their hand to complain. I don't recall Democrats melting down over search warrants.

The judge who approved the warrant is being attacked by right wing whack jobs, but he was appointed under the Trump administration. Trump appointed Christopher Wray. This isn't some deep state political operation.

I have no doubt that if we as a country are dumb enough to let Trump anywhere near the white house he will spend all of his time using his political muscle to punish his enemies, of which there are many. That's basically what he did during his first 4 years but he wasn't very persuasive and was stopped by people with a semblance of loyalty to law and order and our country.

But just because Trump and the GOP will justify political abuses of the wheels of justice doesn't mean we have to pretend that's what is happening here.

---

Look, I am all for no one being above the law. I am a very strong believer in law and order.

However, I am hopeful that this will lead to a very imminent arrest with a very strong, almost treason-type of charge against Trump and he is convicted in a transparent and open trial.

If this flames out without an arrest, this was a horrible precedent, and Biden and his whole family better be ready if and when a Republican has the white house. They will have no moral standing or reference to norms to defend themselves.

This should make everyone on both sides nervous, but I suspect too many Democrats won't see around the corner or plan for anything beyond this move.

---

I agree with you overall - this needs to be done right - but I don't agree that the people running this investigation don't understand what is at stake. This isn't rocket science - you don't go after a former president for jay-walking or wearing white after labor day.

This is obviously a high risk situation and everyone needs to treat it accordingly. That's not some genius-level revelation, it's obvious. Merrick Garland has been very cautious in his approach to investigation and prosecution of the numerous crimes that Trump has been linked to. It hasn't been to the satisfaction of much of the democrat base, but I wouldn't assume that executing a search warrant is some indication that Garland is somehow giving into the base or anything like that.

As I mentioned above, we've seen search warrants like this before. The FBI used them in the Clinton email investigation which ultimately didn't result in any charges being made. It's possible (although I hope unlikely) that the same happens here. That's how our criminal justice system works.

It is looking more and more like this relates to materials Trump took with him from the white house and failed to return. Reportedly he returned 15 boxes and there were some remaining. If the FBI obtained additional items in the execution of the search warrant which Trump still had not returned after ~20 months (and months of engagement with the FBI), I think he likely could be prosecuted. But I could also see Wray/Garland deciding not to prosecute.

To me, the stolen documents are far from the biggest crime Trump has been accused of. Unless we find out more like that he was sharing the classified information with people or using them for some other purpose. If he can make a colorable claim that he "accidentally" stole 15+ boxes of classified information, I don't think he should be prosecuted. I still would think the warrant is reasonable if he refused to return the materials in a timely fashion as they presented a security risk for our nation.

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Yeah, I can't imagine Merrick Garland - who had to approve this - would go out on a limb unless they had a bulletproof reason. As I stated in the other thread, unless they are checking the sewer for sharpie notes they are unlikely to find anything because Trump isn't particularly literate. This definitely ups the likelihood that the FBI already has the goods and they were just doing the search as a formality.

Lots of options here, everything from classified documents to other crimes, but whatever it is, the judge who issued the warrant would've been rigous about determining there was sufficient probable caused to support it.

— Joyce Alene (@JoyceWhiteVance) August 8, 2022

I hope when he is eventually arrested that they don't protect his head when they load him in to the car. Just following his orders right?

---

Arresting a former president when the opposition party has the white house sets such a horrible precedent.

This better be a criminal, air-tight case.

Otherwise, one can expect Biden, Clinton, etc. to be indicted when a Republican is in the white house. At the very least, everyone associated with Biden will be subject to unannounced search warrants. We see this in other less than Democratic countries, especially since there is a crime that could be charged against almost everyone.

This makes a peaceful transition of power even more tenuous.

Not sure I have that much confidence in this administration to make the right type of political call on this, especially when this could have some serious ramification.

I hope it is clear what I think of Trump. I am expressing concern for the future of our democracy and not for him - the same concern that made me despise Trump. I hope this is not some political pressure and expediency, especially since I am not too confident about the Democrat's ability to think beyond the next move.

---

If Biden or any political people in his administration were responsible, then I completely agree. Given how weak and careful Merrick Garland has been, I have a hard time believing there were any shenanigans here. There is zero reason to believe that there was any political motivation for this warrant and search.

The FBI issued multiple search warrants while investigating Hillary Clinton's email "scandal" and I don't recall any Republicans raising their hand to complain. I don't recall Democrats melting down over search warrants.

The judge who approved the warrant is being attacked by right wing whack jobs, but he was appointed under the Trump administration. Trump appointed Christopher Wray. This isn't some deep state political operation.

I have no doubt that if we as a country are dumb enough to let Trump anywhere near the white house he will spend all of his time using his political muscle to punish his enemies, of which there are many. That's basically what he did during his first 4 years but he wasn't very persuasive and was stopped by people with a semblance of loyalty to law and order and our country.

But just because Trump and the GOP will justify political abuses of the wheels of justice doesn't mean we have to pretend that's what is happening here.

---

Look, I am all for no one being above the law. I am a very strong believer in law and order.

However, I am hopeful that this will lead to a very imminent arrest with a very strong, almost treason-type of charge against Trump and he is convicted in a transparent and open trial.

If this flames out without an arrest, this was a horrible precedent, and Biden and his whole family better be ready if and when a Republican has the white house. They will have no moral standing or reference to norms to defend themselves.

This should make everyone on both sides nervous, but I suspect too many Democrats won't see around the corner or plan for anything beyond this move.

---

I agree with you overall - this needs to be done right - but I don't agree that the people running this investigation don't understand what is at stake. This isn't rocket science - you don't go after a former president for jay-walking or wearing white after labor day.

This is obviously a high risk situation and everyone needs to treat it accordingly. That's not some genius-level revelation, it's obvious. Merrick Garland has been very cautious in his approach to investigation and prosecution of the numerous crimes that Trump has been linked to. It hasn't been to the satisfaction of much of the democrat base, but I wouldn't assume that executing a search warrant is some indication that Garland is somehow giving into the base or anything like that.

As I mentioned above, we've seen search warrants like this before. The FBI used them in the Clinton email investigation which ultimately didn't result in any charges being made. It's possible (although I hope unlikely) that the same happens here. That's how our criminal justice system works.

It is looking more and more like this relates to materials Trump took with him from the white house and failed to return. Reportedly he returned 15 boxes and there were some remaining. If the FBI obtained additional items in the execution of the search warrant which Trump still had not returned after ~20 months (and months of engagement with the FBI), I think he likely could be prosecuted. But I could also see Wray/Garland deciding not to prosecute.

To me, the stolen documents are far from the biggest crime Trump has been accused of. Unless we find out more like that he was sharing the classified information with people or using them for some other purpose. If he can make a colorable claim that he "accidentally" stole 15+ boxes of classified information, I don't think he should be prosecuted. I still would think the warrant is reasonable if he refused to return the materials in a timely fashion as they presented a security risk for our nation.

---

Look, I hope you are right.

However, this could easy go sideways, become a political theater with DOJ losing credibility, and all of this, including anything related to January 6th look political as opposed to protection of Democracy. This was another level of escalation when reasonable people started listening to the hearings. They need to clarify this almost immediately before the political train runs over the justice train.

---

Merrick Garland has been so slow to the ball in all of this that I'm convinced that this has nothing to do with politics. And I'd be shocked if this warrant has anything to do with Jan. 6th as Unit2 highlights above. It's about the possession of Federal Documents, some of which were classified.

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Yeah, I can't imagine Merrick Garland - who had to approve this - would go out on a limb unless they had a bulletproof reason. As I stated in the other thread, unless they are checking the sewer for sharpie notes they are unlikely to find anything because Trump isn't particularly literate. This definitely ups the likelihood that the FBI already has the goods and they were just doing the search as a formality.

Lots of options here, everything from classified documents to other crimes, but whatever it is, the judge who issued the warrant would've been rigous about determining there was sufficient probable caused to support it.

— Joyce Alene (@JoyceWhiteVance) August 8, 2022

I hope when he is eventually arrested that they don't protect his head when they load him in to the car. Just following his orders right?

---

Arresting a former president when the opposition party has the white house sets such a horrible precedent.

This better be a criminal, air-tight case.

Otherwise, one can expect Biden, Clinton, etc. to be indicted when a Republican is in the white house. At the very least, everyone associated with Biden will be subject to unannounced search warrants. We see this in other less than Democratic countries, especially since there is a crime that could be charged against almost everyone.

This makes a peaceful transition of power even more tenuous.

Not sure I have that much confidence in this administration to make the right type of political call on this, especially when this could have some serious ramification.

I hope it is clear what I think of Trump. I am expressing concern for the future of our democracy and not for him - the same concern that made me despise Trump. I hope this is not some political pressure and expediency, especially since I am not too confident about the Democrat's ability to think beyond the next move.

---

If Biden or any political people in his administration were responsible, then I completely agree. Given how weak and careful Merrick Garland has been, I have a hard time believing there were any shenanigans here. There is zero reason to believe that there was any political motivation for this warrant and search.

The FBI issued multiple search warrants while investigating Hillary Clinton's email "scandal" and I don't recall any Republicans raising their hand to complain. I don't recall Democrats melting down over search warrants.

The judge who approved the warrant is being attacked by right wing whack jobs, but he was appointed under the Trump administration. Trump appointed Christopher Wray. This isn't some deep state political operation.

I have no doubt that if we as a country are dumb enough to let Trump anywhere near the white house he will spend all of his time using his political muscle to punish his enemies, of which there are many. That's basically what he did during his first 4 years but he wasn't very persuasive and was stopped by people with a semblance of loyalty to law and order and our country.

But just because Trump and the GOP will justify political abuses of the wheels of justice doesn't mean we have to pretend that's what is happening here.

---

Look, I am all for no one being above the law. I am a very strong believer in law and order.

However, I am hopeful that this will lead to a very imminent arrest with a very strong, almost treason-type of charge against Trump and he is convicted in a transparent and open trial.

If this flames out without an arrest, this was a horrible precedent, and Biden and his whole family better be ready if and when a Republican has the white house. They will have no moral standing or reference to norms to defend themselves.

This should make everyone on both sides nervous, but I suspect too many Democrats won't see around the corner or plan for anything beyond this move.

---

I agree with you overall - this needs to be done right - but I don't agree that the people running this investigation don't understand what is at stake. This isn't rocket science - you don't go after a former president for jay-walking or wearing white after labor day.

This is obviously a high risk situation and everyone needs to treat it accordingly. That's not some genius-level revelation, it's obvious. Merrick Garland has been very cautious in his approach to investigation and prosecution of the numerous crimes that Trump has been linked to. It hasn't been to the satisfaction of much of the democrat base, but I wouldn't assume that executing a search warrant is some indication that Garland is somehow giving into the base or anything like that.

As I mentioned above, we've seen search warrants like this before. The FBI used them in the Clinton email investigation which ultimately didn't result in any charges being made. It's possible (although I hope unlikely) that the same happens here. That's how our criminal justice system works.

It is looking more and more like this relates to materials Trump took with him from the white house and failed to return. Reportedly he returned 15 boxes and there were some remaining. If the FBI obtained additional items in the execution of the search warrant which Trump still had not returned after ~20 months (and months of engagement with the FBI), I think he likely could be prosecuted. But I could also see Wray/Garland deciding not to prosecute.

To me, the stolen documents are far from the biggest crime Trump has been accused of. Unless we find out more like that he was sharing the classified information with people or using them for some other purpose. If he can make a colorable claim that he "accidentally" stole 15+ boxes of classified information, I don't think he should be prosecuted. I still would think the warrant is reasonable if he refused to return the materials in a timely fashion as they presented a security risk for our nation.

---

Look, I hope you are right.

However, this could easy go sideways, become a political theater with DOJ losing credibility, and all of this, including anything related to January 6th look political as opposed to protection of Democracy. This was another level of escalation when reasonable people started listening to the hearings. They need to clarify this almost immediately before the political train runs over the justice train.

---

Yes, if they screwed this up they should all be fired. And I think everyone recognizes what the stakes are. Now there have been other high stakes situations where the FBI has screwed it up - think Hillary and her emails and the disastrous Comey press conferences - so it's possible that it's happened again.

There are a few things that are unclear. Apparently the archived retrieved 15 boxes from MAL last year but learned there were remaining docs that hadn't been returned. They referred this to justice to deal with. Over a period of months, the FBI was in contact with Trump's people and visited MAL in June, saw that he had stuff he shouldn't have (including materials marked top secret) and that he wasn't storing it securely. Rather than immediately removing the materials, they sent Trump a letter telling him to secure it better.

This is a *** moment. Imagine any other situation where the FBI sees that you have contraband and allows you to hang onto it. Now, 2 months later a warrant is executed. There are some dots that need to be connected, but I have a hard time seeing Trump's defense for holding classified information in his basement at his publicly accessible golf club for more than a year after being booted from the white house.

Think back to all of the pearl-clutching over Hillary's deleted emails (which were never claimed to be material - just a handful of emails that were post-classified and likely posed no continuing risk) and compare to the reaction from GOP about materials that Trump STILL WON'T RETURN.

It's also telling that Trump won't release the search warrant. If he has nothing to hide, he should share it publicly.

More entertainment.

Ok, which one of you did this? 😂😂 pic.twitter.com/tPFCIaJuTL

— Peter Shankman (shankman.eth) (@petershankman) August 9, 2022

DiabloWags said:

---

Merrick Garland has been so slow to the ball in all of this that I'm convinced that this has nothing to do with politics. And I'd be shocked if this warrant has anything to do with Jan. 6th as Unit2 highlights above. It's about the possession of Federal Documents, some of which were classified.

---

Every “But her emails” hat or shirt sold helps @onwardtogether partners defend democracy, build a progressive bench, and fight for our values.

Just saying!https://t.co/4TiUxjmRNY pic.twitter.com/rflM8fTAbw

— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) August 9, 2022

Your girl is trolling, she just posted this tweet years after getting away with deleting 33,000 emails from her own illegal, private government server.

BearForce2 said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

Hahahahahhaaaaa!

If anyone wants to see the WARRANT and what it was based on, Trump should simply release it.
It was left at his home by the FBI which is standard operating procedure when executing a warrant.

The MAGA MELTDOWN continues!

---

DOJ must immediately explain the reason for its raid & it must be more than a search for inconsequential archives or it will be viewed as a political tactic and undermine any future credible investigation & legitimacy of January 6 investigations.

— Andrew Cuomo (@andrewcuomo) August 9, 2022

Andrew Cuomo is not MAGA.

---

I thought it was an inclusive populist movement?

DiabloWags said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Yeah, I can't imagine Merrick Garland - who had to approve this - would go out on a limb unless they had a bulletproof reason. As I stated in the other thread, unless they are checking the sewer for sharpie notes they are unlikely to find anything because Trump isn't particularly literate. This definitely ups the likelihood that the FBI already has the goods and they were just doing the search as a formality.

Lots of options here, everything from classified documents to other crimes, but whatever it is, the judge who issued the warrant would've been rigous about determining there was sufficient probable caused to support it.

— Joyce Alene (@JoyceWhiteVance) August 8, 2022

I hope when he is eventually arrested that they don't protect his head when they load him in to the car. Just following his orders right?

---

Arresting a former president when the opposition party has the white house sets such a horrible precedent.

This better be a criminal, air-tight case.

Otherwise, one can expect Biden, Clinton, etc. to be indicted when a Republican is in the white house. At the very least, everyone associated with Biden will be subject to unannounced search warrants. We see this in other less than Democratic countries, especially since there is a crime that could be charged against almost everyone.

This makes a peaceful transition of power even more tenuous.

Not sure I have that much confidence in this administration to make the right type of political call on this, especially when this could have some serious ramification.

I hope it is clear what I think of Trump. I am expressing concern for the future of our democracy and not for him - the same concern that made me despise Trump. I hope this is not some political pressure and expediency, especially since I am not too confident about the Democrat's ability to think beyond the next move.

---

If Biden or any political people in his administration were responsible, then I completely agree. Given how weak and careful Merrick Garland has been, I have a hard time believing there were any shenanigans here. There is zero reason to believe that there was any political motivation for this warrant and search.

The FBI issued multiple search warrants while investigating Hillary Clinton's email "scandal" and I don't recall any Republicans raising their hand to complain. I don't recall Democrats melting down over search warrants.

The judge who approved the warrant is being attacked by right wing whack jobs, but he was appointed under the Trump administration. Trump appointed Christopher Wray. This isn't some deep state political operation.

I have no doubt that if we as a country are dumb enough to let Trump anywhere near the white house he will spend all of his time using his political muscle to punish his enemies, of which there are many. That's basically what he did during his first 4 years but he wasn't very persuasive and was stopped by people with a semblance of loyalty to law and order and our country.

But just because Trump and the GOP will justify political abuses of the wheels of justice doesn't mean we have to pretend that's what is happening here.

---

Look, I am all for no one being above the law. I am a very strong believer in law and order.

However, I am hopeful that this will lead to a very imminent arrest with a very strong, almost treason-type of charge against Trump and he is convicted in a transparent and open trial.

If this flames out without an arrest, this was a horrible precedent, and Biden and his whole family better be ready if and when a Republican has the white house. They will have no moral standing or reference to norms to defend themselves.

This should make everyone on both sides nervous, but I suspect too many Democrats won't see around the corner or plan for anything beyond this move.

---

I agree with you overall - this needs to be done right - but I don't agree that the people running this investigation don't understand what is at stake. This isn't rocket science - you don't go after a former president for jay-walking or wearing white after labor day.

This is obviously a high risk situation and everyone needs to treat it accordingly. That's not some genius-level revelation, it's obvious. Merrick Garland has been very cautious in his approach to investigation and prosecution of the numerous crimes that Trump has been linked to. It hasn't been to the satisfaction of much of the democrat base, but I wouldn't assume that executing a search warrant is some indication that Garland is somehow giving into the base or anything like that.

As I mentioned above, we've seen search warrants like this before. The FBI used them in the Clinton email investigation which ultimately didn't result in any charges being made. It's possible (although I hope unlikely) that the same happens here. That's how our criminal justice system works.

It is looking more and more like this relates to materials Trump took with him from the white house and failed to return. Reportedly he returned 15 boxes and there were some remaining. If the FBI obtained additional items in the execution of the search warrant which Trump still had not returned after ~20 months (and months of engagement with the FBI), I think he likely could be prosecuted. But I could also see Wray/Garland deciding not to prosecute.

To me, the stolen documents are far from the biggest crime Trump has been accused of. Unless we find out more like that he was sharing the classified information with people or using them for some other purpose. If he can make a colorable claim that he "accidentally" stole 15+ boxes of classified information, I don't think he should be prosecuted. I still would think the warrant is reasonable if he refused to return the materials in a timely fashion as they presented a security risk for our nation.

---

Look, I hope you are right.

However, this could easy go sideways, become a political theater with DOJ losing credibility, and all of this, including anything related to January 6th look political as opposed to protection of Democracy. This was another level of escalation when reasonable people started listening to the hearings. They need to clarify this almost immediately before the political train runs over the justice train.

---

Merrick Garland has been so slow to the ball in all of this that I'm convinced that this has nothing to do with politics. And I'd be shocked if this warrant has anything to do with Jan. 6th as Unit2 highlights above. It's about the possession of Federal Documents, some of which were classified.

---

Look, if this was only about possessing federal documents, Garland needs to be fired for escalating this. It has to be something they believed had incriminating evidence that will support an already strong criminal case beyond illegal possession of federal documents like it would have been an outrage to put Hillary behind bars for something as relatively immaterial as illegally transferring government files and communication outside of the federal firewalls.

calbear93 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

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Yeah, I can't imagine Merrick Garland - who had to approve this - would go out on a limb unless they had a bulletproof reason. As I stated in the other thread, unless they are checking the sewer for sharpie notes they are unlikely to find anything because Trump isn't particularly literate. This definitely ups the likelihood that the FBI already has the goods and they were just doing the search as a formality.

Lots of options here, everything from classified documents to other crimes, but whatever it is, the judge who issued the warrant would've been rigous about determining there was sufficient probable caused to support it.

— Joyce Alene (@JoyceWhiteVance) August 8, 2022

I hope when he is eventually arrested that they don't protect his head when they load him in to the car. Just following his orders right?

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Arresting a former president when the opposition party has the white house sets such a horrible precedent.

This better be a criminal, air-tight case.

Otherwise, one can expect Biden, Clinton, etc. to be indicted when a Republican is in the white house. At the very least, everyone associated with Biden will be subject to unannounced search warrants. We see this in other less than Democratic countries, especially since there is a crime that could be charged against almost everyone.

This makes a peaceful transition of power even more tenuous.

Not sure I have that much confidence in this administration to make the right type of political call on this, especially when this could have some serious ramification.

I hope it is clear what I think of Trump. I am expressing concern for the future of our democracy and not for him - the same concern that made me despise Trump. I hope this is not some political pressure and expediency, especially since I am not too confident about the Democrat's ability to think beyond the next move.

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If Biden or any political people in his administration were responsible, then I completely agree. Given how weak and careful Merrick Garland has been, I have a hard time believing there were any shenanigans here. There is zero reason to believe that there was any political motivation for this warrant and search.

The FBI issued multiple search warrants while investigating Hillary Clinton's email "scandal" and I don't recall any Republicans raising their hand to complain. I don't recall Democrats melting down over search warrants.

The judge who approved the warrant is being attacked by right wing whack jobs, but he was appointed under the Trump administration. Trump appointed Christopher Wray. This isn't some deep state political operation.

I have no doubt that if we as a country are dumb enough to let Trump anywhere near the white house he will spend all of his time using his political muscle to punish his enemies, of which there are many. That's basically what he did during his first 4 years but he wasn't very persuasive and was stopped by people with a semblance of loyalty to law and order and our country.

But just because Trump and the GOP will justify political abuses of the wheels of justice doesn't mean we have to pretend that's what is happening here.

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Look, I am all for no one being above the law. I am a very strong believer in law and order.

However, I am hopeful that this will lead to a very imminent arrest with a very strong, almost treason-type of charge against Trump and he is convicted in a transparent and open trial.

If this flames out without an arrest, this was a horrible precedent, and Biden and his whole family better be ready if and when a Republican has the white house. They will have no moral standing or reference to norms to defend themselves.

This should make everyone on both sides nervous, but I suspect too many Democrats won't see around the corner or plan for anything beyond this move.

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I agree with you overall - this needs to be done right - but I don't agree that the people running this investigation don't understand what is at stake. This isn't rocket science - you don't go after a former president for jay-walking or wearing white after labor day.

This is obviously a high risk situation and everyone needs to treat it accordingly. That's not some genius-level revelation, it's obvious. Merrick Garland has been very cautious in his approach to investigation and prosecution of the numerous crimes that Trump has been linked to. It hasn't been to the satisfaction of much of the democrat base, but I wouldn't assume that executing a search warrant is some indication that Garland is somehow giving into the base or anything like that.

As I mentioned above, we've seen search warrants like this before. The FBI used them in the Clinton email investigation which ultimately didn't result in any charges being made. It's possible (although I hope unlikely) that the same happens here. That's how our criminal justice system works.

It is looking more and more like this relates to materials Trump took with him from the white house and failed to return. Reportedly he returned 15 boxes and there were some remaining. If the FBI obtained additional items in the execution of the search warrant which Trump still had not returned after ~20 months (and months of engagement with the FBI), I think he likely could be prosecuted. But I could also see Wray/Garland deciding not to prosecute.

To me, the stolen documents are far from the biggest crime Trump has been accused of. Unless we find out more like that he was sharing the classified information with people or using them for some other purpose. If he can make a colorable claim that he "accidentally" stole 15+ boxes of classified information, I don't think he should be prosecuted. I still would think the warrant is reasonable if he refused to return the materials in a timely fashion as they presented a security risk for our nation.

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Look, I hope you are right.

However, this could easy go sideways, become a political theater with DOJ losing credibility, and all of this, including anything related to January 6th look political as opposed to protection of Democracy. This was another level of escalation when reasonable people started listening to the hearings. They need to clarify this almost immediately before the political train runs over the justice train.

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Yes, if they screwed this up they should all be fired. And I think everyone recognizes what the stakes are. Now there have been other high stakes situations where the FBI has screwed it up - think Hillary and her emails and the disastrous Comey press conferences - so it's possible that it's happened again.

There are a few things that are unclear. Apparently the archived retrieved 15 boxes from MAL last year but learned there were remaining docs that hadn't been returned. They referred this to justice to deal with. Over a period of months, the FBI was in contact with Trump's people and visited MAL in June, saw that he had stuff he shouldn't have (including materials marked top secret) and that he wasn't storing it securely. Rather than immediately removing the materials, they sent Trump a letter telling him to secure it better.

This is a *** moment. Imagine any other situation where the FBI sees that you have contraband and allows you to hang onto it. Now, 2 months later a warrant is executed. There are some dots that need to be connected, but I have a hard time seeing Trump's defense for holding classified information in his basement at his publicly accessible golf club for more than a year after being booted from the white house.

Think back to all of the pearl-clutching over Hillary's deleted emails (which were never claimed to be material - just a handful of emails that were post-classified and likely posed no continuing risk) and compare to the reaction from GOP about materials that Trump STILL WON'T RETURN.

It's also telling that Trump won't release the search warrant. If he has nothing to hide, he should share it publicly.

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OK, we will hopefully see soon whether this was a huge gift to those buying the far right conspiracy theory or whether this was the start of the true downfall for Trump.

It absolutely is a *** moment. Subpoenas and depositions are all within the norms. A search warrant and the corresponding raid of a former president's residence, as far as I know, has never been done. It wasn't done even to Hillary when Trump was president, right? I would have preferred a contempt of court after failure of responding to subpoena but there is a lot I don't know right now. That is why I think prompt disclosure is needed even though they may want to play it close to the vest for investigation purposes. However, they must have known the political firestorm this would create and breach of norms this was. Anyone with any bit of professionalism and PR sensibility would have had communication all ready to go in this *** escalation.

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They did execute search warrants in connection with the Hillary email investigation. I believe the search warrants were served on third parties and not the Clintons. The big difference is that she did voluntarily comply with the FBI. I am 100% positive that the FBI will be able to show that Trump refused to comply with them in their investigation which forced their hand here.

As for whether there is something else here - I don't know. There is a lot of speculation that they must have had reason to believe Trump was sharing those materials with adversaries or otherwise, but I'm skeptical of that. I think it's as simple as the FBI/DOJ demanding the return of classified materials and Trump saying "make me." So they made him. That to me is 100% on Trump and not a rule of law problem.

Again, all Trump has to do is release the warrant to clear things up but the warrant obviously looks bad for him so he wont' do it. Maybe his bus stop lawyer will make a mistake like Alex Jones' lawyer and we'll all get to see it.

WalterSobchak said:

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BearForce2 said:

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Andrew Cuomo is not MAGA.

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I thought it was an inclusive populist movement?

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The guy who killed all the old people condemned the raid on Trump's home before Mike Pence and Mitch McConnell. https://t.co/IT0VF0RogG

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) August 9, 2022

It is, it's his choice.

BearForce2 said:

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WalterSobchak said:

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BearForce2 said:

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Andrew Cuomo is not MAGA.

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I thought it was an inclusive populist movement?

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The guy who killed all the old people condemned the raid on Trump's home before Mike Pence and Mitch McConnell. https://t.co/IT0VF0RogG

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) August 9, 2022

It is, it's his choice.

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How do you know he hasn't?

WalterSobchak said:

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"F___ Your Feelings"

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Breathe, inhale, hold.....