dajo9 said:

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Goldener Bar said:

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dajo9 said:

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calbear93 said:

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okaydo said:

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Nikki Haley in New Hampshire this morning:

"Everybody know about Dylan Mulvaney? Bud Light? That is a guy, dressed as a girl, making fun of women."

She's at Politics and Eggs, not a red meat crowd; no applause for a line that gets some elsewhere.

— David Weigel (@daveweigel) May 24, 2023

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Amount of time we spend on transgender issue that impacts such a small percentage of the population while we have a looming black swan event with the debt ceiling, runaway deficit, geopolitical issues that will reshape the new world order, China and Russia coming out more and more as blatant enemies looking to minimize us, school shooting, runaway crime where people do not feel safe doing basic things like taking public transportation. Yet we f****ing spend so many calories here and elsewhere on this stupid issue.

We are a country of morons on both sides of the aisle. And no, this is not just a Republican issue. This is also a Democrat issue in playing identity politics just to add another progressive badge when we have much greater priorities.

Can we get past identity politics in this country and be a serious country that can get past virtue signaling on both sides?

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There are 1.3 million transgender adults in America. They have family and they have friends. Something like 5% of Americans are LGBT. They have family and they have friends. You insult them all (myself included) when you dismissively call it virtue signaling.

We hear so much about the transgender community because the right is targeting them in a culture war in order to win votes for the subjects that concern you (default, debt, etc). It all leads back to the same place. Money and power. Standing up against the targeted harassment of the transgender community is the right thing to do, in its own right. We wont abandon our family and friends. We can walk and chew gum.

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I am sorry that you have personally experienced hatred based on your life choices. All people should be entitled to the same rights and privileges regardless. My hope is that your life choices have made you happy and that you have been able to find a fulfilling relationship with another person regardless of their gender as it relates to yours. It's none of my business to know the particulars of your situation, but thank you for sharing.

However, I must agree with what some of calbear93 is saying as well. The culture war on your right to live your life as you choose merely exists to divide us among the same lines as racial hatred, religious hatred, and everything else to keep us from uniting on class based issues of economic inequality and inequality of opportunity. I don't care about China or Russia, but I do care about regular people getting crumbs while the wealthy and powerful and corporations get socialism.

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I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression about myself. I'm a cis white guy. However I have family that is trans. I have family that is gay. My view is my family's struggle is my struggle.

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My apologies. I read too much into your post and made assumptions when I should have asked questions. Best wishes to your family.

Paxton must have either been known to have done some pretty bad things (blatantly guilty) or pissed off a lot of GOP colleagues on the way up... or both.

Big C said:

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Paxton must have either been known to have done some pretty bad things (blatantly guilty) or pissed off a lot of GOP colleagues on the way up... or both.

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It's a witch hunt.

dimitrig said:

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okaydo said:

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LA Dodgers bow to pressure from conservatives including Sen. Marco Rubio and have uninvited an LGBTQ charity and drag performance group from participation in Pride Nighthttps://t.co/47nR9Kr1AR

— Rolling Stone (@RollingStone) May 17, 2023

---

Dodgers reinvited the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence

"After honoring, then disinviting, the charitable drag group that dresses up like nuns to its annual LGBTQ+ Pride Night, the L.A. baseball team welcomes them back."

"After much thoughtful feedback from our diverse communities, honest conversations within the Los Angeles Dodgers organization and generous discussions with the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, the Los Angeles Dodgers would like to offer our sincerest apologies to the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, members of the LGBTQ+ community and their friends and families"

Link:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/dodgers-apologize-drag-nuns-sisters-perpetual-indulgence-1235498144/amp/

---

Mocking the powerful that run our societies is an ancient and important tradition.

When I see a black comedian making fun of white people I don't get insulted. I laugh (if it's funny). The power structure makes all the difference.

The highest grossing stand up comedy concert film is Eddie Murphy Raw which features Eddie Murphy making fun of white people dancing. When did white people become so sensitive? When their power in society was put at risk.

dajo9 said:

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dimitrig said:

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okaydo said:

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LA Dodgers bow to pressure from conservatives including Sen. Marco Rubio and have uninvited an LGBTQ charity and drag performance group from participation in Pride Nighthttps://t.co/47nR9Kr1AR

— Rolling Stone (@RollingStone) May 17, 2023

---

Dodgers reinvited the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence

"After honoring, then disinviting, the charitable drag group that dresses up like nuns to its annual LGBTQ+ Pride Night, the L.A. baseball team welcomes them back."

"After much thoughtful feedback from our diverse communities, honest conversations within the Los Angeles Dodgers organization and generous discussions with the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, the Los Angeles Dodgers would like to offer our sincerest apologies to the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, members of the LGBTQ+ community and their friends and families"

Link:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/dodgers-apologize-drag-nuns-sisters-perpetual-indulgence-1235498144/amp/

---

Mocking the powerful that run our societies is an ancient and important tradition.

When I see a black comedian making fun of white people I don't get insulted. I laugh (if it's funny). The power structure makes all the difference.

The highest grossing stand up comedy concert film is Eddie Murphy Raw which features Eddie Murphy making fun of white people dancing. When did white people become so sensitive? When their power in society was put at risk.

---

Interesting that you think Catholics run our society. Until JFK, being Catholic was a barrier to the white house, with the Protestants discriminating against the Catholics. It has mainly been immigrants who have been Catholics, including the Irish, Italians, Hispanic, and certain Asian groups.

With Catholics comprising about 20% of the population, strange that you think they have enough power to justify mocking them.

Again, not directly impacted but I just don't agree with you that it is OK to be a bigot or racist using perceived power as an excuse. I would feel the same way if you mocked Jews or Muslims thinking they had sufficient power for you to be a bigot against them. We see too much in our history people justifying racism or other forms of bigotry using every excuse in the book. And just because you don't get insulted doesn't mean it's OK. I'm sure there are gay people who didn't get insulted by clearly bigoted jokes against the LGBT community.

This is one of many where we will just not agree. And that is one of the reasons I will never be a Democrat. I won't be a Republican in this current iteration because they have been taken over by the Trump cultists. But just as many racists and bigots in the Democratic party - they just happen to take their bigotry where the wind blows and target the ones that don't carry a stigma on social media.

Koon & the Gang https://t.co/VEqb9U7HFE

— Sunn m'Cheaux (@sunnmcheaux) May 29, 2023

Uncle Tom's KKKabin

okaydo said:

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Donald Trump Jr. meant to ridicule Ron DeSantis but ended up insulting his dad in an all-time embarrassing mix-up https://t.co/IPagwIepGV

— UPROXX (@UPROXX) May 26, 2023

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Today on CNN and MSNBC, Donald Trump was mentioned by name 399 times between 6am and 4pm. Obsessed is an understatement.

This is what one hour of CNN looks like. pic.twitter.com/MIt73h182M

— Bill D'Agostino (@Banned_Bill) May 25, 2023

He will die soon of a heart attack.
No worries.

Unit2Sucks said:

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GOP wants to protect the children. Sure.

I don't know about you guys but I don't think this is about protecting kids. https://t.co/hOFcRnGiPA pic.twitter.com/xRytxgIAK3

— Ari Drennen (@AriDrennen) May 30, 2023

BECAUSE OF COURSE:

Far-right political news personality Charlie Kirk, who founded the ultra-conservative Turning Point USA, this week was accusing Target of "grooming" kids because they were offering Pride youth apparel. But his organization is actually being bankrolled by an… pic.twitter.com/J9QxcYI1Yg

— Really American 🇺🇸 (@ReallyAmerican1) May 28, 2023

And it's the democrats who are stealing votes in swing states. Remember that Texas is taking over the elections process in Harris country, presumably to ensure that the GOP doesn't have any threat in the state.

With the GOP, every accusation is an admission.

Impeached AG of Texas, @KenPaxtonTX giving a news interview saying that if he wouldn’t have stopped 2.5 Million mail-in ballots during the Presidential Election, that Biden would have won Texas & Trump would have lost Texas. pic.twitter.com/Y9jpj8Khlc

— CollinCountyDemocrats (@CollinDems) May 30, 2023

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The Illinois story is simply that we have now found there were more cases than originally known about, dating back to 1950. It is sick and disgusting but, unfortunately, not as newsworthy. You can do the same thing with the ignoring of ongoing gang shooting coverage (speaking of Chicago), often black on black crime, versus the incredible 24/7 coverage of much rarer "mass shootings."

What about white on white crime ?

going4roses said:

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What about white on white crime ?

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What about it?

Unit2Sucks said:

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GOP wants to protect the children. Sure.

I don't know about you guys but I don't think this is about protecting kids. https://t.co/hOFcRnGiPA pic.twitter.com/xRytxgIAK3

— Ari Drennen (@AriDrennen) May 30, 2023

BECAUSE OF COURSE:

Far-right political news personality Charlie Kirk, who founded the ultra-conservative Turning Point USA, this week was accusing Target of "grooming" kids because they were offering Pride youth apparel. But his organization is actually being bankrolled by an… pic.twitter.com/J9QxcYI1Yg

— Really American 🇺🇸 (@ReallyAmerican1) May 28, 2023

And it's the democrats who are stealing votes in swing states. Remember that Texas is taking over the elections process in Harris country, presumably to ensure that the GOP doesn't have any threat in the state.

With the GOP, every accusation is an admission.

Impeached AG of Texas, @KenPaxtonTX giving a news interview saying that if he wouldn’t have stopped 2.5 Million mail-in ballots during the Presidential Election, that Biden would have won Texas & Trump would have lost Texas. pic.twitter.com/Y9jpj8Khlc

— CollinCountyDemocrats (@CollinDems) May 30, 2023

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Has anybody on this board mentioned how handsome Charlie Kirk is?

He's almost as handsome as (future twitter icon -- thanks Musk) Tucker Swanson Carlson.

Or. maybe, even as handsome as Fox superstar Jesse Watters?

OsoDorado said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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GOP wants to protect the children. Sure.

I don't know about you guys but I don't think this is about protecting kids. https://t.co/hOFcRnGiPA pic.twitter.com/xRytxgIAK3

— Ari Drennen (@AriDrennen) May 30, 2023

BECAUSE OF COURSE:

Far-right political news personality Charlie Kirk, who founded the ultra-conservative Turning Point USA, this week was accusing Target of "grooming" kids because they were offering Pride youth apparel. But his organization is actually being bankrolled by an… pic.twitter.com/J9QxcYI1Yg

— Really American 🇺🇸 (@ReallyAmerican1) May 28, 2023

And it's the democrats who are stealing votes in swing states. Remember that Texas is taking over the elections process in Harris country, presumably to ensure that the GOP doesn't have any threat in the state.

With the GOP, every accusation is an admission.

Impeached AG of Texas, @KenPaxtonTX giving a news interview saying that if he wouldn’t have stopped 2.5 Million mail-in ballots during the Presidential Election, that Biden would have won Texas & Trump would have lost Texas. pic.twitter.com/Y9jpj8Khlc

— CollinCountyDemocrats (@CollinDems) May 30, 2023

---

Has anybody on this board mentioned how handsome Charlie Kirk is?

He's almost as handsome as (future twitter icon -- thanks Musk) Tucker Swanson Carlson.

Or. maybe, even as handsome as Fox superstar Jesse Watters

---

BECAUSE OF COURSE:

Far-right political news personality Charlie Kirk, who founded the ultra-conservative Turning Point USA, this week was accusing Target of "grooming" kids because they were offering Pride youth apparel. But his organization is actually being bankrolled by an… pic.twitter.com/J9QxcYI1Yg

— Really American 🇺🇸 (@ReallyAmerican1) May 28, 2023

P.S.: His veneers even match his lily-white shirt!

And, notice his hair is perfectly coifed above his left earlobe (unlike Tucker Swanson McNear Carlson, who insists on looking like a spoiled teenager into his 50's.)

Again, it's amazing how handsome this guy is! Charlie Kirk, I'm sold on your theory of "How to be Good-looking". Count me in, you pig! [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucker_Carlson#cite_note-what_does-1][/url]

Tommy Tuberville’s musician brother ‘compelled to distance’ himself over ‘racial stereotypes, white nationalism’ - https://t.co/RSJSz2gdzF https://t.co/qkmj6LYnjj

— mike freeman (@mikefreemanNFL) May 31, 2023

[url=https://twitter.com/alexthomp/status/1664226810719092737?s=61&t=q3aJJANbuswwddUjKMkcgg]

New w/ @SophiaCai99:
DeSantis keeps pronouncing his name differently on the trail.
It’s Dee-Santis in his 2024 announcement video and an SC radio interview
It’s Deh-Santis in other interviews
His campaign declined to say how to pronounce his namehttps://t.co/XL8dTTWrdB

— Alex Thompson (@AlexThomp) June 1, 2023

[/url]

GoOskie said:

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OsoDorado said:

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Has anybody on this board mentioned how handsome Charlie Kirk is?

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He has that pedophile handsomeness to him.

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What does that even mean?

It's such a disgusting thing that we shouldn't throw that around and diluting the deservedly shock value associated with that word.

I wouldn't call someone that even if that person had every single opposite political view from me.

dajo9 said:

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calbear93 said:

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dajo9 said:

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dimitrig said:

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okaydo said:

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LA Dodgers bow to pressure from conservatives including Sen. Marco Rubio and have uninvited an LGBTQ charity and drag performance group from participation in Pride Nighthttps://t.co/47nR9Kr1AR

— Rolling Stone (@RollingStone) May 17, 2023

---

Dodgers reinvited the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence

"After honoring, then disinviting, the charitable drag group that dresses up like nuns to its annual LGBTQ+ Pride Night, the L.A. baseball team welcomes them back."

"After much thoughtful feedback from our diverse communities, honest conversations within the Los Angeles Dodgers organization and generous discussions with the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, the Los Angeles Dodgers would like to offer our sincerest apologies to the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, members of the LGBTQ+ community and their friends and families"

Link:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/dodgers-apologize-drag-nuns-sisters-perpetual-indulgence-1235498144/amp/

---

Mocking the powerful that run our societies is an ancient and important tradition.

When I see a black comedian making fun of white people I don't get insulted. I laugh (if it's funny). The power structure makes all the difference.

The highest grossing stand up comedy concert film is Eddie Murphy Raw which features Eddie Murphy making fun of white people dancing. When did white people become so sensitive? When their power in society was put at risk.

---

Interesting that you think Catholics run our society. Until JFK, being Catholic was a barrier to the white house, with the Protestants discriminating against the Catholics. It has mainly been immigrants who have been Catholics, including the Irish, Italians, Hispanic, and certain Asian groups.

With Catholics comprising about 20% of the population, strange that you think they have enough power to justify mocking them.

Again, not directly impacted but I just don't agree with you that it is OK to be a bigot or racist using perceived power as an excuse. I would feel the same way if you mocked Jews or Muslims thinking they had sufficient power for you to be a bigot against them. We see too much in our history people justifying racism or other forms of bigotry using every excuse in the book. And just because you don't get insulted doesn't mean it's OK. I'm sure there are gay people who didn't get insulted by clearly bigoted jokes against the LGBT community.

This is one of many where we will just not agree. And that is one of the reasons I will never be a Democrat. I won't be a Republican in this current iteration because they have been taken over by the Trump cultists. But just as many racists and bigots in the Democratic party - they just happen to take their bigotry where the wind blows and target the ones that don't carry a stigma on social media.

---

You say yourself, "until JFK". OK, that was a long time ago. Since then I think Catholics are viewed in the same light as the rest of the Christian dominant class in our society. Six of the Supreme Court Justices are Catholic.

In the Islamic areas of the Middle East, it is OK to mock Islam. It's part of how power is challenged.

---

I think Protestants think of Catholics as under the same umbrella of religion just like Catholics think Mormons are in the same group. In other words, they don't. And there are members of the supreme court who are catholic and supported by protestants because, like Muslims and Protestants, Catholics are against abortion once they view the fetus has a soul (time of ensoulment may differ based on different groups even within each religion, but each religion believes that a fetus will have a soul before birth and be a human). They may all consider Jesus as a Messiah (and Muslims think Jesus is one of the most important prophets), but completely different religion historically and even now.

My Mother never received much bigotry growing up Catholic in the Midwest in the mid 20th century but the bigotry (her view, not mine) she did experience was generally that Catholics weren't Christians.

dajo9 said:

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My Mother never received much bigotry growing up Catholic in the Midwest in the mid 20th century but the bigotry (her view, not mine) she did experience was generally that Catholics weren't Christians.

---

That's interesting, since the Catholic Church is sort of the definition of Christian.

dajo9 said:

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My Mother never received much bigotry growing up Catholic in the Midwest in the mid 20th century but the bigotry (her view, not mine) she did experience was generally that Catholics weren't Christians.

---

The issue most non Catholic Christian sects have is the veneration and deification of Mary. Hang out with Baptist or Methodists long enough and you will hear the term "Cult of Mary" in reference to Catholics.

First Commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

So, Catholics may consider themselves Christian, but evangelicals think they are doing it wrong.

AunBear89 said:

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dajo9 said:

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My Mother never received much bigotry growing up Catholic in the Midwest in the mid 20th century but the bigotry (her view, not mine) she did experience was generally that Catholics weren't Christians.

---

The issue most non Catholic Christian sects have is the veneration and deification of Mary. Hang out with Baptist or Methodists long enough and you will hear the term "Cult of Mary" in reference to Catholics.

First Commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

So, Catholics may consider themselves Christian, but evangelicals think they are doing it wrong.

---

Protestants can't even decide amongst themselves as there are so many different denominations.

But being that the Catholic Church descended directly from the apostle Peter I would say they have pretty good grounds to call themselves Christian.

dajo9 said:

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My Mother never received much bigotry growing up Catholic in the Midwest in the mid 20th century but the bigotry (her view, not mine) she did experience was generally that Catholics weren't Christians.

---

Historically, it has gone both ways. Go to Ireland or Italy and say you are a protestant, and most will say you are not a Christian.

It is not a question of whether Catholics or Protestants or Mormons are or are not Christian. It's all semantic. But there are fundamental differences among the three that to say they are all the same is like saying all Asians are the same, ignoring the strong ethnic differences among Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Thai, etc.

dimitrig said:

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AunBear89 said:

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dajo9 said:

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My Mother never received much bigotry growing up Catholic in the Midwest in the mid 20th century but the bigotry (her view, not mine) she did experience was generally that Catholics weren't Christians.

---

The issue most non Catholic Christian sects have is the veneration and deification of Mary. Hang out with Baptist or Methodists long enough and you will hear the term "Cult of Mary" in reference to Catholics.

First Commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

So, Catholics may consider themselves Christian, but evangelicals think they are doing it wrong.

---

Protestants can't even decide amongst themselves as there are so many different denominations.

But being that the Catholic Church descended directly from the apostle Peter I would say they have pretty good grounds to call themselves Christian.

---

Again, this is not accurate or the same.

The difference between Mormons, Catholics, and Protestants are that they basically worship a different God, in the sense that Catholics also deify men who are deemed saints (including Mary, making her the same sinless person as Jesus - the immaculate conception that Mary herself was conceived sinlessly) and Mormons believe God's purpose was to populate Heaven with Mormons as revealed through Jesus who came to the Native Americans (despite the fact that the Bible actually provides that when He comes back, it will be to finally judge and call those who put their faith in Him - you know - apocalypse).

The denominations among protestants do not differentiate in what is in the Bible but instead deal with whether people should be submersed in baptism, the governance of the church, etc.. None of those details pertain to what they believe is required for salvation or is contradicted in the Bible.

So, no, the Catholic Church did not descend from apostle Peter. Peter and James were the leaders of the Jewish-based Church. If anyone went to Rome to grow the church, it was Paul (hence the Romans epistle), who was then executed by the Roman Caesar (Nero).

And Peter was married, unlike the requirements for a Pope, had no primacy over any of the other apostles (in fact, James, who was not an apostle, had probably more pull as described in Acts) or over the church like a Catholic pope does, and stayed mainly in Israel for his church for the Jews (read Galatians), etc. Peter supported Paul going to convert the gentiles like those in Rome but it was not Peter who did so.

So, no, you are wrong. The first churches in Rome described in Acts and Romans were started by Paul or his students and did not have a pope, were governed by elders. Paul himself had no primacy as an apostle over any other even if he was most responsible for the churches in Rome. Peter himself reaffirmed through the epistles that anyone who adds or removes from the Bible or adds their own rules for salvation are condemned, but that's what the Catholic church does with the canons and creeds with equal weight as the Bible.

dimitrig said:

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dajo9 said:

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My Mother never received much bigotry growing up Catholic in the Midwest in the mid 20th century but the bigotry (her view, not mine) she did experience was generally that Catholics weren't Christians.

---

That's interesting, since the Catholic Church is sort of the definition of Christian.

---

No it is not. Christian literally means follower of Jesus Christ in faith. If one believes that the only way to salvation is faith in Jesus Christ, he/she is a Christian. That's all that it means.

I think superficial knowledge confuses more than elucidates. For example, people who have a vague idea of the freedom of speech thinking it applies to all things and even actions by purely non-government entities. Roman catholic church was started long after Peter himself was executed and crucified, so to say Peter was the first Roman Catholic church makes no sense. The Jewish faith was the basis of the Christian faith, and the actions in Israel, including the pentecost, that was the start of the modern Christian church. The whole basis for the fallacy that Peter, who died before the first Catholic church, was the first pope is that Jesus called Peter the rock on which the church will be built. That is true. And it happened at the day of pentecost when the Holy Spirit was first descended on the believers and Peter preached to people of many different languages and they all were converted. That was the beginning of the Christian church, with the Holy Spirit being with us for the first time being the start of the Church. Not the Catholic Church but the first sermon with the Holy Spirit in Jerusalem in Israel, with many of those converts on the day of the pentecost upon receiving the Holy Spirit being the first Christians, with all of them initially in Israel. If anything, Rome persecuted the Christians, with Nero blaming Christians for the city fires.

calbear93 said:

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dimitrig said:

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dajo9 said:

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My Mother never received much bigotry growing up Catholic in the Midwest in the mid 20th century but the bigotry (her view, not mine) she did experience was generally that Catholics weren't Christians.

---

That's interesting, since the Catholic Church is sort of the definition of Christian.

---

No it is not. Christian literally means follower of Jesus Christ in faith. If one believes that the only way to salvation is faith in Jesus Christ, he/she is a Christian. That's all that it means.

I think superficial knowledge confuses more than elucidates. For example, people who have a vague idea of the freedom of speech thinking it applies to all things and even actions by purely non-government entities. Roman catholic church was started long after Peter himself was executed and crucified, so to say Peter was the first Roman Catholic church makes no sense. The Jewish faith was the basis of the Christian faith, and the actions in Israel, including the pentecost, that was the start of the modern Christian church. The whole basis for the fallacy that Peter, who died before the first Catholic church, was the first pope is that Jesus called Peter the rock on which the church will be built. That is true. And it happened at the day of pentecost when the Holy Spirit was first descended on the believers and Peter preached to people of many different languages and they all were converted. That was the beginning of the Christian church, with the Holy Spirit being with us for the first time being the start of the Church. Not the Catholic Church but the first sermon with the Holy Spirit in Jerusalem in Israel, with many of those converts on the day of the pentecost upon receiving the Holy Spirit being the first Christians, with all of them initially in Israel. If anything, Rome persecuted the Christians, with Nero blaming Christians for the city fires.

---

It doesn't make any difference to me. But my Mother knows the Bible and the history extensively. She felt it was bigoted to say Catholics are not Christians.

dajo9 said:

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calbear93 said:

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dimitrig said:

---

dajo9 said:

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My Mother never received much bigotry growing up Catholic in the Midwest in the mid 20th century but the bigotry (her view, not mine) she did experience was generally that Catholics weren't Christians.

---

That's interesting, since the Catholic Church is sort of the definition of Christian.

---

No it is not. Christian literally means follower of Jesus Christ in faith. If one believes that the only way to salvation is faith in Jesus Christ, he/she is a Christian. That's all that it means.

I think superficial knowledge confuses more than elucidates. For example, people who have a vague idea of the freedom of speech thinking it applies to all things and even actions by purely non-government entities. Roman catholic church was started long after Peter himself was executed and crucified, so to say Peter was the first Roman Catholic church makes no sense. The Jewish faith was the basis of the Christian faith, and the actions in Israel, including the pentecost, that was the start of the modern Christian church. The whole basis for the fallacy that Peter, who died before the first Catholic church, was the first pope is that Jesus called Peter the rock on which the church will be built. That is true. And it happened at the day of pentecost when the Holy Spirit was first descended on the believers and Peter preached to people of many different languages and they all were converted. That was the beginning of the Christian church, with the Holy Spirit being with us for the first time being the start of the Church. Not the Catholic Church but the first sermon with the Holy Spirit in Jerusalem in Israel, with many of those converts on the day of the pentecost upon receiving the Holy Spirit being the first Christians, with all of them initially in Israel. If anything, Rome persecuted the Christians, with Nero blaming Christians for the city fires.

---

It doesn't make any difference to me. But my Mother knows the Bible and the history extensively. She felt it was bigoted to say Catholics are not Christians.

---

Look, if there are Catholics who put their faith in Jesus Christ and not in men or the created things, then they are Christians. All semantics. But if they worship men and have multiple "gods", then no, they are not Christians. There are Jews who are Christians. In fact, all of the apostles were Jewish. There can be Catholics who maybe go to mass due to upbringing, but if they only put their faith in Christ for salvation (hence CHRIST - IAN), they are Christian. There are many so called Republican "protestants" who put their faith in money, Trump, or power. They, unfortunately, will find out that they are not Christians, and, as Jesus said, they may be told by Jesus, "I never knew you (meaning, never had a relationship), depart from Me."

By the way, do you think bigotry against "Christians", including your mother, was wrong or does the power structure make it so that it was acceptable if not encouraged?

calbear93 said:

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dajo9 said:

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My Mother never received much bigotry growing up Catholic in the Midwest in the mid 20th century but the bigotry (her view, not mine) she did experience was generally that Catholics weren't Christians.

---

Historically, it has gone both ways. Go to Ireland or Italy and say you are a protestant, and most will say you are not a Christian.

It is not a question of whether Catholics or Protestants or Mormons are or are not Christian. It's all semantic. But there are fundamental differences among the three that to say they are all the same is like saying all Asians are the same, ignoring the strong ethnic differences among Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Thai, etc.

---

Well, Mormons aren't Christian. I think all Christians agree on that.

The only ones who would say they are would be the Mormons themselves.

dimitrig said:

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calbear93 said:

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dajo9 said:

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My Mother never received much bigotry growing up Catholic in the Midwest in the mid 20th century but the bigotry (her view, not mine) she did experience was generally that Catholics weren't Christians.

---

Historically, it has gone both ways. Go to Ireland or Italy and say you are a protestant, and most will say you are not a Christian.

It is not a question of whether Catholics or Protestants or Mormons are or are not Christian. It's all semantic. But there are fundamental differences among the three that to say they are all the same is like saying all Asians are the same, ignoring the strong ethnic differences among Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Thai, etc.

---

Well, Mormons aren't Christian. I think all Christians agree on that.

The only ones who would say they are would be the Mormons themselves.

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Mormons do state they are Christians. Why is it OK to say they are not when Catholics deify humans and have an open canon? Mormons like Catholics are unequivocal in their statements that they are Christians. You may disagree, but they probably think you are showing bigotry by saying they are not Christians.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/christians?lang=eng