calbear93 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

If you start with race plays role in everything, what do you see when you see a black young man victimizing an old Asian woman? I just see a broken world with too much hate and people of all colors being sometimes good and often times evil. Just like I see with the evil effected by both parties in the tragedy here.

Evil, unfortunately, is not monopolized by one race. But it is perpetuated when we try to separate and vilify people based on color.

---

"A white man killed a homeless Black man on the train intentionally and walked. Expect more white vigilantism to come."

Unit2Sucks said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

---

Dems understand racism better than anybody, they built all the confederate statues.

going4roses said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

If you start with race plays role in everything, what do you see when you see a black young man victimizing an old Asian woman? I just see a broken world with too much hate and people of all colors being sometimes good and often times evil. Just like I see with the evil effected by both parties in the tragedy here.

Evil, unfortunately, is not monopolized by one race. But it is perpetuated when we try to separate and vilify people based on color.

---

"A white man killed a homeless Black man on the train intentionally and walked. Expect more white vigilantism to come."

---

Do you think NYC is too soft on crime and the DA is too sympathetic to criminal rights and not the victim's rights?

Unit2Sucks said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

---

As a white person, does that apply to you? Do you consider yourself inherently and inevitably racist because of the color of your skin or do you consider yourself just more evolved than the other "whites" that you "look down on"? Or are just categorizing whites as a group and not any one person? I am sure there are white nationalists who talk about an ethnic or racial community as a group and not any one in particular because they have some minority friends who are fine (which I am sure you agree is disgusting attitude).

You already know my hatred for white nationalist, including MAGA. But I despise racists of all colors. And I don't think a person's skin color mandates or exempts racist tendencies. And I stand on principle and not on who has power because I have no interest in rooting for who would be the next oppressor with racist views.

I need to hear/read/see more about how this guy was threatening others.
If so, I can understand subduing him.

Unfortunately, we've seen too much stuff like this. White people killing black people.

And we've also seen too much of inner city crime, robberies and personal attacks.

…I wonder what would have happened if someone on the train had simply reached into their bag and offered him a 75 cent apple, or given him $5, along with a "here man, I care about you, would this help you have a better day?"
Think the situation could have diffused?

concordtom said:

---

I need to hear/read/see more about how this guy was threatening others.
If so, I can understand subduing him.

Unfortunately, we've seen too much stuff like this. White people killing black people.

And we've also seen too much of inner city crime, robberies and personal attacks.

…I wonder what would have happened if someone on the train had simply reached into their bag and offered him a 75 cent apple, or given him $5, along with a "here man, I care about you, would this help you have a better day?"
Think the situation could have diffused?

---

Then be the change you want. Even here, nothing preventing you from extending grace.

calbear93 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

I need to hear/read/see more about how this guy was threatening others.
If so, I can understand subduing him.

Unfortunately, we've seen too much stuff like this. White people killing black people.

And we've also seen too much of inner city crime, robberies and personal attacks.

…I wonder what would have happened if someone on the train had simply reached into their bag and offered him a 75 cent apple, or given him $5, along with a "here man, I care about you, would this help you have a better day?"
Think the situation could have diffused?

---

Then be the change you want. Even here, nothing preventing you from extending grace.

---

Yep. Good call.



here man, I care about you, would this help you have a better day?

Or perhaps you have a venmo account?


Okay, joking aside. It was a good call, and we all need to practice that!

concordtom said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

I need to hear/read/see more about how this guy was threatening others.
If so, I can understand subduing him.

Unfortunately, we've seen too much stuff like this. White people killing black people.

And we've also seen too much of inner city crime, robberies and personal attacks.

…I wonder what would have happened if someone on the train had simply reached into their bag and offered him a 75 cent apple, or given him $5, along with a "here man, I care about you, would this help you have a better day?"
Think the situation could have diffused?

---

Then be the change you want. Even here, nothing preventing you from extending grace.

---

Yep. Good call.



here man, I care about you, would this help you have a better day?

---

I am having a fine day. And is this the type of behavior you wished others had engaged in on the train?

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

---

Dems understand racism better than anybody, they built all the confederate statues.

---

If you are talking about the Dixiecrats who built the statutes, they are all MAGA now, are they not? Do you see a lot of liberal Democrats protecting confederate statutes? I assume you focus on substance and not just labeling. Antifa, even if they chose to call themselves Republicans, would be offensive to you, right?

calbear93 said:

---

I am having a fine day. And is this the type of behavior you wished others had engaged in on the train?

---

I used to commute via BART. Most days were totally fine. Rarely someone would appear and be bothersome. I tried to ignore. I didn't buy candy from kids selling. I didn't give money to people on the street as I walked my couple blocks to work. I blocked it all out of my mind.

When someone suddenly sees a threat, it can be tough to know what to do. Choking the guy out is completely lamentable. I feel pretty confident in thinking that wasn't necessary. But who knows, maybe the dude coulda been a hero if a gun or knife or grenade were presented. I wasn't there, can't assess the threat based on info I know.

calbear93 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

---

Dems understand racism better than anybody, they built all the confederate statues.

---

If you are talking about the Dixiecrats who built the statutes, they are all MAGA now, are they not? Do you see a lot of liberal Democrats protecting confederate statutes? I assume you focus on substance and not just labeling. Antifa, even if they chose to call themselves Republicans, would be offensive to you, right?

---

Is Minot one of those guys who doesn't understand that the parties flipped?

calbear93 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

---

Dems understand racism better than anybody, they built all the confederate statues.

---

If you are talking about the Dixiecrats who built the statutes, they are all MAGA now, are they not? Do you see a lot of liberal Democrats protecting confederate statutes? I assume you focus on substance and not just labeling. Antifa, even if they chose to call themselves Republicans, would be offensive to you, right?

---

I'm just here for facts. Politifact me bro

MinotStateBeav said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

---

Dems understand racism better than anybody, they built all the confederate statues.

---

If you are talking about the Dixiecrats who built the statutes, they are all MAGA now, are they not? Do you see a lot of liberal Democrats protecting confederate statutes? I assume you focus on substance and not just labeling. Antifa, even if they chose to call themselves Republicans, would be offensive to you, right?

---

I'm just here for facts. Politifact me bro

---

The beliefs of the Dixiecrat who built the statutes are now the beliefs of MAGA. That is a fact. So you found what you came here for. You're welcome.

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

---

As a white person, does that apply to you? Do you consider yourself inherently and inevitably racist because of the color of your skin or do you consider yourself just more evolved than the other "whites" that you "look down on"? Or are just categorizing whites as a group and not any one person? I am sure there are white nationalists who talk about an ethnic or racial community as a group and not any one in particular because they have some minority friends who are fine (which I am sure you agree is disgusting attitude).

You already know my hatred for white nationalist, including MAGA. But I despise racists of all colors. And I don't think a person's skin color mandates or exempts racist tendencies. And I stand on principle and not on who has power because I have no interest in rooting for who would be the next oppressor with racist views.

---

Did you take any sociology classes at Cal? The fact that a statement may not apply to you personally doesn't invalidate it.

You in particular seem to be extremely sensitive to any criticism of white people as a group. The statement made by LBJ was similarly made by WEB DuBois in studying reconstruction and while it doesn't apply to all white people it certainly may apply to some or many. The question is how many.

If you look at the MAGA nation right now - they have been played to hate people of color (especially foreigners) and LGBTQ (especially trans people). You yourself point out that nationalists are a problem so you seem to know what I'm talking about.

Do you really think LBJ's statement is entirely false? Do you believe it's applicable to any group of Americans? Do you believe that black Americans face any challenges as a result of the dynamic LBJ points out?

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

---

As a white person, does that apply to you? Do you consider yourself inherently and inevitably racist because of the color of your skin or do you consider yourself just more evolved than the other "whites" that you "look down on"? Or are just categorizing whites as a group and not any one person? I am sure there are white nationalists who talk about an ethnic or racial community as a group and not any one in particular because they have some minority friends who are fine (which I am sure you agree is disgusting attitude).

You already know my hatred for white nationalist, including MAGA. But I despise racists of all colors. And I don't think a person's skin color mandates or exempts racist tendencies. And I stand on principle and not on who has power because I have no interest in rooting for who would be the next oppressor with racist views.

---

Did you take any sociology classes at Cal? The fact that a statement may not apply to you personally doesn't invalidate it.

You in particular seem to be extremely sensitive to any criticism of white people as a group. The statement made by LBJ was similarly made by WEB DuBois in studying reconstruction and while it doesn't apply to all white people it certainly may apply to some or many. The question is how many.

If you look at the MAGA nation right now - they have been played to hate people of color (especially foreigners) and LGBTQ (especially trans people). You yourself point out that nationalists are a problem so you seem to know what I'm talking about.

Do you really think LBJ's statement is entirely false? Do you believe it's applicable to any group of Americans? Do you believe that black Americans face any challenges as a result of the dynamic LBJ points out?

---

The irony of these statements, in a thread of a crime about a black man killed in New York City that's 80% democrat and the "crime" was committed by 3 of democrats is pretty high.

For those here who "know" what happened,

The NYPD has issued a call for public help as investigators review video footage and other material, urging anyone who saw or has any information about this matter to contact Crime Stoppers at 1-800-577-TIPS (8477) or for Spanish, 1-888-57-PISTA (74782).

The Manhattan DA's office encourages anyone who witnessed the incident or might have information to also call 212-335-9040.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

---

As a white person, does that apply to you? Do you consider yourself inherently and inevitably racist because of the color of your skin or do you consider yourself just more evolved than the other "whites" that you "look down on"? Or are just categorizing whites as a group and not any one person? I am sure there are white nationalists who talk about an ethnic or racial community as a group and not any one in particular because they have some minority friends who are fine (which I am sure you agree is disgusting attitude).

You already know my hatred for white nationalist, including MAGA. But I despise racists of all colors. And I don't think a person's skin color mandates or exempts racist tendencies. And I stand on principle and not on who has power because I have no interest in rooting for who would be the next oppressor with racist views.

---

Did you take any sociology classes at Cal? The fact that a statement may not apply to you personally doesn't invalidate it.

You in particular seem to be extremely sensitive to any criticism of white people as a group. The statement made by LBJ was similarly made by WEB DuBois in studying reconstruction and while it doesn't apply to all white people it certainly may apply to some or many. The question is how many.

If you look at the MAGA nation right now - they have been played to hate people of color (especially foreigners) and LGBTQ (especially trans people). You yourself point out that nationalists are a problem so you seem to know what I'm talking about.

Do you really think LBJ's statement is entirely false? Do you believe it's applicable to any group of Americans? Do you believe that black Americans face any challenges as a result of the dynamic LBJ points out?

---

I am particularly sensitive to racism overall, and not just racism against one group.

What LBJ wrote is a concept that applies to racism and bigotry against all colors by all colors. Racism here. Racism in other countries. Racism by whites against blacks. Racism by blacks against Asians in this country. Racism in Asia against blacks. Racism by Hispanic against blacks. Racism by blacks against whites. Caste system in India. Bigotry against Muslims. Bigotry against Jews. Bigotry against Christians. Small minded people of all colors want to feel better about themselves for irrelevant reasons all the time. It is not a white characteristic. It is a human disease that you and I both suffer from and must fight against instead of thinking pointing fingers at others and feeling better for not being them is the end of the solution.

You can try to make this pointed at me by saying I am "particularly sensitive" but let's stick to substance of the debate. Would rather not get this into a personal insults. If I did that first, I apologize.

You are missing the whole point and that mechanism/white privilege you and oski default to is the problem for everyone but you hence your lack of ability to see the whole truth not just what u see because it benefits only you

See 93 that's the thing racism is a white /european power construct.

Show me where racism benefits Black people(tangible gains at the group level)in America? Not immigrants not capitulators sowell and elders type ?

going4roses said:

---

See 93 that's the thing racism is a white /european power construct.

Show me where racism benefits Black people in America? Not immigrants not capitulators sowell and elders type ?

---

Sorry but racism existed long before European and American rise to power. Men have been cruel to other men for stupid reasons in every phase of our history. And if you are excusing other races for race discrimination because they are not in the majority, I am not on your side. Blacks being racist to illegal immigrants because the white folks are still the majority is not OK with me. Asians being racist to blacks is not OK. You and I could not disagree more. I may be vehemently against racism by whites but I am not rooting for blacks who discriminate based on skin color to then take power to be the next oppressor. I would rather stand on principle that discrimination based on skin color in itself is wrong no matter the skin color of the racist.

Here in an America …

Tell me how descendants of chattel slavery have power(economically /politically/legally/financially/religion) over white people or themselves ?

going4roses said:

---

Here in an America …

Tell me how descendants of chattel slavery have power(economically /politically/legally/financially/religion) over white people ?

---

Do you not have any power? Do you have less than whites in Alabama? Let's not be enslaved by some theoretical concept. Are you, who have access and time to post here all day, oppressed more than white person hooked on meth in Ohio?

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

---

As a white person, does that apply to you? Do you consider yourself inherently and inevitably racist because of the color of your skin or do you consider yourself just more evolved than the other "whites" that you "look down on"? Or are just categorizing whites as a group and not any one person? I am sure there are white nationalists who talk about an ethnic or racial community as a group and not any one in particular because they have some minority friends who are fine (which I am sure you agree is disgusting attitude).

You already know my hatred for white nationalist, including MAGA. But I despise racists of all colors. And I don't think a person's skin color mandates or exempts racist tendencies. And I stand on principle and not on who has power because I have no interest in rooting for who would be the next oppressor with racist views.

---

Did you take any sociology classes at Cal? The fact that a statement may not apply to you personally doesn't invalidate it.

You in particular seem to be extremely sensitive to any criticism of white people as a group. The statement made by LBJ was similarly made by WEB DuBois in studying reconstruction and while it doesn't apply to all white people it certainly may apply to some or many. The question is how many.

If you look at the MAGA nation right now - they have been played to hate people of color (especially foreigners) and LGBTQ (especially trans people). You yourself point out that nationalists are a problem so you seem to know what I'm talking about.

Do you really think LBJ's statement is entirely false? Do you believe it's applicable to any group of Americans? Do you believe that black Americans face any challenges as a result of the dynamic LBJ points out?

---

I am particularly sensitive to racism overall, and not just racism against one group.

What LBJ wrote is a concept that applies to racism and bigotry against all colors by all colors. Racism here. Racism in other countries. Racism by whites against blacks. Racism by blacks against Asians in this country. Racism in Asia against blacks. Racism by Hispanic against blacks. Racism by blacks against whites. Caste system in India. Bigotry against Muslims. Bigotry against Jews. Bigotry against Christians. Small minded people of all colors want to feel better about themselves for irrelevant reasons all the time. It is not a white characteristic. It is a human disease that you and I both suffer from and must fight against instead of thinking pointing fingers at others and feeling better for not being them is the end of the solution.

You can try to make this pointed at me by saying I am "particularly sensitive" but let's stick to substance of the debate. Would rather not get this into a personal insults. If I did that first, I apologize.

---

Nothing I've said is "racist" against whites. You might think it's an unfair generalization or that it's evidence of some anti-white prejudice but it's pretty dang far from racism.

I object to any false equivalence between what some people consider "racism" against whites (eg acknowledging the historical and continuing actual racism by whites) and actual racism faced by people of color. Actual racism can be perpetrated by people of all types and skin colors, but in the US (and many other places) it is fundamentally a construct of European oppression, as G4R correctly points out.

There is a lot of prejudice and hate crimes in the US and it can go in any direction. That's what you seem to be focused on but it's not the same type of racism which G4R and I are discussing. Hate crimes are abhorrent and negatively impact victims and communities but not in the same pernicious ways that historical institutional racism has impacted entire groups. G4R points out individual hate crimes to shed light on the larger problem. People of color have been oppressed by white racism for generations and it has had a massive negative impact on them.

I think you are smart enough to recognize the false equivalence and not think that the impacts on the black community from centuries of slavery and beyond are exactly the same as all other hate crimes in impact.

If you think I'm being racist against white people, we just have a very large difference of opinion about what racism means.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

---

As a white person, does that apply to you? Do you consider yourself inherently and inevitably racist because of the color of your skin or do you consider yourself just more evolved than the other "whites" that you "look down on"? Or are just categorizing whites as a group and not any one person? I am sure there are white nationalists who talk about an ethnic or racial community as a group and not any one in particular because they have some minority friends who are fine (which I am sure you agree is disgusting attitude).

You already know my hatred for white nationalist, including MAGA. But I despise racists of all colors. And I don't think a person's skin color mandates or exempts racist tendencies. And I stand on principle and not on who has power because I have no interest in rooting for who would be the next oppressor with racist views.

---

Did you take any sociology classes at Cal? The fact that a statement may not apply to you personally doesn't invalidate it.

You in particular seem to be extremely sensitive to any criticism of white people as a group. The statement made by LBJ was similarly made by WEB DuBois in studying reconstruction and while it doesn't apply to all white people it certainly may apply to some or many. The question is how many.

If you look at the MAGA nation right now - they have been played to hate people of color (especially foreigners) and LGBTQ (especially trans people). You yourself point out that nationalists are a problem so you seem to know what I'm talking about.

Do you really think LBJ's statement is entirely false? Do you believe it's applicable to any group of Americans? Do you believe that black Americans face any challenges as a result of the dynamic LBJ points out?

---

I am particularly sensitive to racism overall, and not just racism against one group.

What LBJ wrote is a concept that applies to racism and bigotry against all colors by all colors. Racism here. Racism in other countries. Racism by whites against blacks. Racism by blacks against Asians in this country. Racism in Asia against blacks. Racism by Hispanic against blacks. Racism by blacks against whites. Caste system in India. Bigotry against Muslims. Bigotry against Jews. Bigotry against Christians. Small minded people of all colors want to feel better about themselves for irrelevant reasons all the time. It is not a white characteristic. It is a human disease that you and I both suffer from and must fight against instead of thinking pointing fingers at others and feeling better for not being them is the end of the solution.

You can try to make this pointed at me by saying I am "particularly sensitive" but let's stick to substance of the debate. Would rather not get this into a personal insults. If I did that first, I apologize.

---

Nothing I've said is "racist" against whites. You might think it's an unfair generalization or that it's evidence of some anti-white prejudice but it's pretty dang far from racism.

I object to any false equivalence between what some people consider "racism" against whites (eg acknowledging the historical and continuing actual racism by whites) and actual racism faced by people of color. Actual racism can be perpetrated by people of all types and skin colors, but in the US (and many other places) it is fundamentally a construct of European oppression, as G4R correctly points out.

There is a lot of prejudice and hate crimes in the US and it can go in any direction. That's what you seem to be focused on but it's not the same type of racism which G4R and I are discussing. Hate crimes are abhorrent and negatively impact victims and communities but not in the same pernicious ways that historical institutional racism has impacted entire groups. G4R points out individual hate crimes to shed light on the larger problem. People of color have been oppressed by white racism for generations and it has had a massive negative impact on them.

I think you are smart enough to recognize the false equivalence and not think that the impacts on the black community from centuries of slavery and beyond are exactly the same as all other hate crimes in impact.

If you think I'm being racist against white people, we just have a very large difference of opinion about what racism means.

---

At this point, I think you and I are talking past each other.

Couple of reasons why I think we are missing the mark in our respective responses.

I never stated that you are racist against white. I wrote that the problem of racism is not exclusive to whites. As such, racism is not limited to white or a white-only problem.

I also never stated that the simple act of recognizing the existence of continuing impact of past racism is in itself discrimination against whites. Recognizing that this society in large part still contains in pockets the remnants of prior shameful history of racism is not racism against white. It is not controversial, and we address that by fixing the gap and not by excusing race discrimination against other races.

What is racism against whites is grouping all white people in a stereotypical fashion as it happens here often as if the color of our skin imputes negative and inevitable characteristics. Referring to whites as "you people" or "all white people" or "white problem" is racial discrimination and dehumanization. And that behavior seems to be excused by many here because of the existence of institutional racism. Saying that about any other race or religion would be problematic not because of institutional racism but because it dehumanizes people based on skin color or belief.

So, yes, you and I have a very different opinion on what racism means. My view is based on the underlying human stain of needing to push someone down based on something irrelevant and imputing negative character based on skin color. Your view on racism is based on power and societal foundation. As long as we are using the same words to discuss different things, we will never be truly communicating.

calbear93 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

---

Dems understand racism better than anybody, they built all the confederate statues.

---

If you are talking about the Dixiecrats who built the statutes, they are all MAGA now, are they not? Do you see a lot of liberal Democrats protecting confederate statutes? I assume you focus on substance and not just labeling. Antifa, even if they chose to call themselves Republicans, would be offensive to you, right?

---

I'm just here for facts. Politifact me bro

---

The beliefs of the Dixiecrat who built the statutes are now the beliefs of MAGA. That is a fact. So you found what you came here for. You're welcome.

---

Sorry, nice try. Own your history. You support the party that founded the KKK and owned slaves.

BearHunter said:

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calbear93 said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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calbear93 said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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going4roses said:

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If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

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LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

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Dems understand racism better than anybody, they built all the confederate statues.

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If you are talking about the Dixiecrats who built the statutes, they are all MAGA now, are they not? Do you see a lot of liberal Democrats protecting confederate statutes? I assume you focus on substance and not just labeling. Antifa, even if they chose to call themselves Republicans, would be offensive to you, right?

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I'm just here for facts. Politifact me bro

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The beliefs of the Dixiecrat who built the statutes are now the beliefs of MAGA. That is a fact. So you found what you came here for. You're welcome.

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Sorry, nice try. Own your history. You support the party that founded the KKK and owned slaves.

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Own your present. You support the party that protects Confederate statues while trying to suppress teaching racial history.

BearHunter said:

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calbear93 said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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calbear93 said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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going4roses said:

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If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

---

Dems understand racism better than anybody, they built all the confederate statues.

---

If you are talking about the Dixiecrats who built the statutes, they are all MAGA now, are they not? Do you see a lot of liberal Democrats protecting confederate statutes? I assume you focus on substance and not just labeling. Antifa, even if they chose to call themselves Republicans, would be offensive to you, right?

---

I'm just here for facts. Politifact me bro

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The beliefs of the Dixiecrat who built the statutes are now the beliefs of MAGA. That is a fact. So you found what you came here for. You're welcome.

---

Sorry, nice try. Own your history. You support the party that founded the KKK and owned slaves.

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Sorry, but your post was a big fail. I have never been a Democrat. I have been a Republican until MAGA/Dixiecrats took over the party. I would ask MAGA like you to own your own history. Dixiecrats renamed as MAGA have hijacked the Republican party.

The conversation about which party historically supported slavery etc... is stupid and unnecessary. We should focus on what the parties have stood for in modern times.

going4roses said:

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Here in an America …

Tell me how descendants of chattel slavery have power(economically /politically/legally/financially/religion) over white people ?

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Why do you often refer to it as "chattel" slavery, which for me conjures up the comparison of black slaves to farm animals (cattle)?

It was a disgusting era with messed up values. Your people are far mightier than that and deserve to be discussed in mightier terms. Is it possible to discuss the wrong of slavery without mentioning "chattel"?
I dunno, you tell me. Do I have my vocabulary misunderstood?

dajo9 said:

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BearHunter said:

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calbear93 said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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calbear93 said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

going4roses said:

---

If you start with race plays role in EVERYTHING you possess the bandwidth to see this tragedy for what it is murder.

A white person took the opportunity to murder a Black man

---

LBJ said it all:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

---

Dems understand racism better than anybody, they built all the confederate statues.

---

If you are talking about the Dixiecrats who built the statutes, they are all MAGA now, are they not? Do you see a lot of liberal Democrats protecting confederate statutes? I assume you focus on substance and not just labeling. Antifa, even if they chose to call themselves Republicans, would be offensive to you, right?

---

I'm just here for facts. Politifact me bro

---

The beliefs of the Dixiecrat who built the statutes are now the beliefs of MAGA. That is a fact. So you found what you came here for. You're welcome.

---

Sorry, nice try. Own your history. You support the party that founded the KKK and owned slaves.

---

Own your present. You support the party that protects Confederate statues while trying to suppress teaching racial history.

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There is a debate over the whole tearing down of statues thing, I don't have a strong position either way. I never lived in the south but I don't think it's right to see people destroying public property either.

oski003 said:

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The conversation about which party historically supported slavery etc... is stupid and unnecessary. We should focus on what the parties have stood for in modern times.

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Hear hear to that!

Here's where it's at for me:

Democrats: liberal (as in "seeking change") because the times are changing ever faster and so "change" is required. Progressive because progress (as in "moving forward") is also a good thing.

Republicans: conservatives (as in NOT seeking change) who want to hold on to how things used to be. They hold onto a believe in religion and social structure for eras long since passed by. Some have become seduced by the MAGA dark side, some are not into MAGA but still cling to their personal identity of "Republican" nonetheless - as a label they are comfortable with. And some might actually favor Democrats policy positions but have been so brainwashed by the label that they can't even see the issue on its own merits.

Who else wants a turn?

oski003 said:

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The conversation about which party historically supported slavery etc... is stupid and unnecessary. We should focus on what the parties have stood for in modern times.

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When did "modern times" start? It's necessary to know history because others are using it against your own interests. Reparations, 1619 Project, etc....

Republicans: Let's get the proletariat to vote against their own best interests and support our economic policies which perpetuate and protect wealth inequality by using the bait of religion, patriotism, guns, abortion, and racism.

concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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The conversation about which party historically supported slavery etc... is stupid and unnecessary. We should focus on what the parties have stood for in modern times.

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Hear hear to that!

Here's where it's at for me:

Democrats: liberal (as in "seeking change") because the times are changing ever faster and so "change" is required. Progressive because progress (as in "moving forward") is also a good thing.

Republicans: conservatives (as in NOT seeking change) who want to hold on to how things used to be. They hold onto a believe in religion and social structure for eras long since passed by. Some have become seduced by the MAGA dark side, some are not into MAGA but still cling to their personal identity of "Republican" nonetheless - as a label they are comfortable with. And some might actually favor Democrats policy positions but have been so brainwashed by the label that they can't even see the issue on its own merits.

Who else wants a turn?

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Modern times is the last 25 years.

What progressives consider progress isn't necessarily progress. Society has gone soft. People don't know the meaning of hardwork, and everybody thinks they deserve nice cars, smartphones, and 50" flat screens even if they don't work. The police are underfunded and will not chase criminals for fear of doing something wrong and facing discipline, liability, and public scorn. Property crimes aren't reported because they are hardly prosecuted. This isn't progress. I will not park my car outside for fear of catalytic converter theft.

concordtom said:

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going4roses said:

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Here in an America …

Tell me how descendants of chattel slavery have power(economically /politically/legally/financially/religion) over white people ?

---

Why do you often refer to it as "chattel" slavery, which for me conjures up the comparison of black slaves to farm animals (cattle)?

It was a disgusting era with messed up values. Your people are far mightier than that and deserve to be discussed in mightier terms. Is it possible to discuss the wrong of slavery without mentioning "chattel"?
I dunno, you tell me. Do I have my vocabulary misunderstood?

---

I'm not g4r, and certainly not a historian, but as I understand it, chattel slavery has a specific meaning, with chattel being a specific adjective describing a specific type of slavery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

"As a social institution, chattel slavery classes slaves as chattels (personal property) owned by the enslaver; like livestock, they can be bought and sold at will."

"As a social institution, chattel slavery classes slaves as chattels (personal property) owned by the enslaver; like livestock, they can be bought and sold at will. While it was not present at all times and places in the classical world, chattel slavery did exist in ancient times and was practiced in places such as the Roman Empire. Chattel slavery reached its modern extreme in the Americas during European colonization."

So while all slavery is horrific, chattel slavery describes a specific type of slavery which (allegedly above) reached its zenith during the European colonial period in the Americas. Your comparison to cattle is (tragically) apt since chattel slaves could be bought and sold like livestock, separating families, children etc. as often happened in the US prior to Abolition. In other forms of slavery historically, this aspect has not necessarily been true. I think that is why g4r uses the chattel descriptor when speaking of slavery in the US.