New/Old look at homeless in California

5,001 Views | 60 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by going4roses
wifeisafurd
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https://infogram.com/jail-to-homelessness-pipeline-1hxr4zxv9gqqq6y

CA is home to 30% of the nation's homelessness. Study linked above says biggest problem is lack and loss of income vs rents, and notes most homelessness developed from an exposure to violence (e.g., criminal victim), incarceration, and other traumas Twenty-one percent of lease- holders cited a loss of income as the main reason that they lost their last housing. Among non-leaseholders, 13% noted a conflict within the household and 11% noted not wanting to impose. For leaseholders, economic considerations interacted frequently with social and health crises. The usual suspects such as mental illness are viewed as less of a factor.

Nine out of ten participants lost their last housing in California, which also suggests migration to sunny CA is not the main culprit. Also the homelessness age is increasing and for prolonged peroids, and not surprisingly is more minority. This suggests that recent approaches to homelessness are not working.

Not a surprise to me is that substance use, particularly methamphetamine use, is a common thread. Many participants reported using drugs and alcohol to help them cope. Almost one third (31%) reported regular use of methamphetamines, 3% cocaine, and 11% non-prescribed opioids. Sixteen percent reported heavy episodic drinking. Only 6 percent of participants reported receiving any current drug or alcohol treatment. Twenty percent of those who report current regular use of illicit drugs or heavy episodic alcohol use reported that they wanted treatment, but were unable to receive it.

The disappointment to me was the lack of creativity to the proposed solutions. The ubiquitous we need to increase low income housing is suggestion number 1. How you get there seems to be a problem. The let's provide more tax credits to these projects was the first point. Next, was the usual let's give these people more money for rent vouchers, In the backdrop is the conventional wisdom to normalize project by taking some portion of at least more, moderate income housing projects for the low income (this is a response to urban tenement "projects" that was created when all the poor were given housing together). But CA has been throwing money through tax credits and rent vouchers around for a long time without success.

The credits are supposed to flow through to tenants in the form of lower rents, but studies suggest that investors, developers, and financial companies gain most of the benefits. The credit/voucher program has complex administration, is prone to abuse, and produces VERY costly low income housing. It also does little to stop CEQA and other legal challenges from people that don't want any low-income housing near them, or zoning and other limitations that don't want any low-income housing near them. But the academics don't want to step on third rails, so there is no suggestion about reducing the burden of building and zoning and environmental regulations to increase the supply of housing, including multifamily housing for low income tenants. The only guy actually saying this is of all people, Governor Newsom. The other big problem is that there is no money in managing and owning these projects because the projects are fee driven: most of the tax credits go for soft development costs like paying off lawyers, developer, lender, expert, and city development fees. Investors receive benefits from these deals other than the tax credits. The projects typically generate operating losses due to high operating costs dealing with trouble tenants, vandalism, insurance costs, etc. coupled with restricted rents. The losses may flow through to investors' tax returns and offset their taxes on other income (they are tax shelters), but they also provide no economic incentive to invest to keep up the building. Investors may gain on the disposition on their ownership usually after year 20 or more (see the prior comment about no investment incentive) when rents control are taken off, but most local jurisdictions, under local political pressure, put in rent control to allow rent increase in small percentages.

These project also are ripe targets for fraud and abuse, which is perpetrated by tenants, developers, and government officials. Tenants abuse the program by occupying housing units to which they are not eligible, often by claiming a false income level on disclosure forms. Developers abuse the program by inflating their reported costs to receive excess tax credits. Government officials abuse the tax credit program for personal gain. Because there is a limited amount of valued credits that are handed out in a discretionary manner to developers, it creates an open invitation to corruption. In the California and particularly Los Angeles City Council scandals are well documented. And what does that mean - remarkably the lower income units cost way more than the equivalent unit in the same projects.

It seems bizarre to me that academics can demonstrate that current programs are not working, and then say put more money into the same program and ways of doing things.

Which then gets us to the social structure grab bag of wants to support to the housing projects. The academics say let's pour more money into social service agencies, healthcare settings, domestic violence services, community organizations, and anti-discrimination centers. Expand prevention and transition services at institutional exits (jails, prisons). Expand and strengthen eviction protections (because during C-19 moratoriums and the previously taking several months to evict a low income tenant provided landlords any ability, no less economic incentive to get rid of problem tenants).

The eviction comment suggests just how far removed academics are from the real world. Which gets to the owner not wanting to rent to substance abuser, but having no real recourse to deal with these tenants. Some of these PC program spending opportunities arguably might have some benefit, but if the bill is to be borne by the developer, count on the end of any private funded project.


The State says it spends nearly $10 billion annually on trying to house the homeless. And despite all that, at the end of each year, the vast majority of Californians who are homeless still didn't end up with a roof over their heads. They did, to some degree, get some other benefits such as tent cities, food, etc. Nevertheless, the number of unsheltered Californians continues to swell.

Newsom last week went a very different direction. He called for a ballot initiative for public housing to be partially funded by general obligation bonds that would raise between $3 billion and $5 billion annually to go toward construction of "campus-style" facilities and long-term residential setting, with mandatory substance abuse treatment centers(is this legal?) and policing focus. I suspect there will be CEQA and zoning exemptions.

This comes amid challenging times, where California has an estimated $22.5 billion and rising deficit, State revenues keep falling and Newsom is threatening to veto any tax increase. So how do the bonds get paid? Newsom will overhaul California's Mental Health Services Act, an initiative approved by voters back in 2004 that charges a 1 percent tax on top income earners from whatever that money goes to now (expect some pushback from progressives), to these public housing and other savings from the current programs that Newsom rightfully thinks doesn't work.

The biggest issue Newsom probably faces (besides getting the legislation on the ballot) is that academics abhor isolating the poor in government "projects" which turned in the '60s into gruesome places to live as vividly described in movies and TV shows of the '60s and '70s and even in later media, such as the iconic "The Wire."

bearister
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The homeless advocates say that substance abuse has no causation in homelessness, rather it is a coping mechanism after one becomes homeless. Are they correct?

Do mental health issues arise as a result of being homeless or are they a causative favor?

Are you more likely to be homeless if you live in an area that has one of the highest costs of living in the America?

I have been advised that the homeless do not want to be sheltered in industrial areas where they can be sheltered, have showers and be fed. They prefer to congregate in downtown areas. Why is that?

*These questions are being posed by a father of a daughter that lives in the City, was eating at a restaurant last week in North Beach at a window seat facing the sidewalk and an unhoused gentleman fell through the open widow onto my daughter and the table.

*Questions also posed by a guy willing to support practical solutions to help our less fortunate brothers (i.e.treating substance abuse, mental illness and providing job skill training as part of the package of assistance).
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wifeisafurd
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bearister said:

The homeless advocates say that substance abuse has no causation in homelessness, rather it is a coping mechanism after one becomes homeless. Are they correct?

Do mental health issues arise as a result of being homeless or are they a causative favor?

Are you more likely to be homeless if you live in an area that has one of the highest costs of living in the America?

I have been advised that the homeless do not want to be sheltered in industrial areas where they can be sheltered, have showers and be fed. They prefer to congregate in downtown areas. Why is that?

*These questions are being posed by a father of a daughter that lives in the City, was eating at a restaurant last week in North Beach at a window seat facing the sidewalk and an unhoused gentleman fell through the open widow onto my daughter and the table.

*Questions also posed by a guy willing to support practical solutions to help our less fortunate brothers (i.e.treating substance abuse, mental illness and providing job skill training as part of the package of assistance).
I can only speculate on some of your questions. I suspect those who regularly abuse drugs and alcohol are more susceptible to becoming homeless and in bad situations with friends and family, and once on the street become more dependent given the lifestyle. There is a distinction between mental illness and and drug or alcohol dependency. The study seemed to think that mental illness was less of an issue that has usually been presented. I did a lot of housing bonds, and the housing advocates I knew used to be focused on those with mental problems. Now it seems more like an economic issue if this study its correct.

That being said, the study suggests that the loss/lack of income versus rent costs is the number 1 factor in homelessness. I'm not taking issue with what the researchers found - I assume they know how to do these studies. I take issue with a lot of their, old tired thinking about how pouring money on the same approaches, thinking that will help, when it doesn't seem that effective.

Can't answer you about industrial areas, showers and food vs. downtown or why. Don't know, and the study didn't look at that.

As for practical solutions, I think at least the Governor, who has interests in the White House seems more than willing to try the practical, though he will get a lot of grief from vested interests that benefit from the current credit/voucher approach, which the study recommended to throw more money at.

IMO, the City also has a double whammy with the homeless and non-enforcement approach on crimes (which may be changing). It must be serious whentThe last two times I picked-up a car rental at Oakland Airport, I had to sign a document that I wold not take the car into the City. With tech not doing well, the City's homelessness and crime issues, the City's commercial property values crashing, an insurance crunch, construction costs sky rocketing, and higher interest rates, I'm having a tough time thinking why a developer would consider a low income project in the City, all of which probably explains why Newsom is looking at public housing.
bearister
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Another homeless advocate boilerplate argument:

The unhoused don't want to live in shelters because they are too dangerous.

The reality:
Each week in an Oakland homeless encampment someone gets shot, bludgeon or stabbed to death….and the unhoused taking night time strolls on our roads and highways are getting picked off with regularity.
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going4roses
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Wife it's exactly how bearister said it … most of the houseless folks w/ addiction issues those came on post losing shelter or just prior to. That is the fact.

Most houseless people simply cannot afford rent for a myriad of reasons especially now. I have read so many case studies of houseless people/homeless camps as well as studied American poverty issues. 5 yrs ago I read about of a muni driver who had to move his family from the east bay to the Central Valley because rent was too high. In turn he stayed in his car in the employee parking lot over his work days and drove the 2 hrs (4hrs in traffic home) on his off days

It's mad crazy out here.

Being homeless m/impending threat of brings on mental illness/drug addiction it's NOT the other way around. But the blame always has to be on the individual/their decisions making or lack there of vs the government policies that purposefully produce these outcomes.

But now in Oakland I see more and more Hispanic men (assuming recent immigrants) living on the street. Which is a whole other layered discussion.

Number one demographic of houseless people is Black men… this is why reparations are paramount (not the only fix)a Black man with a college degree makes less than his white counterpart w/ HS Diploma same as a white felony will make more on avg than Black (non immigrant) man w/ a 4 yr degree.

I just want America to be great for once for everyone who is willing to put in a 40 yr work week.
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going4roses
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https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/new-report-paints-stark-picture-homeless-housing-crises/story?id=100249518

Hmm
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going4roses
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https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C29&q=tony+sparks&oq=tony+spa#d=gs_qabs&t=1687360777236&u=%23p%3Dx27Rauxi2RoJ
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going4roses
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This played/plays a role
https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/115134/replies/2182497
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concordtom
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I'll flippantly throw out that the MAGA concept/idea/image seems to be 1950's, a time when prospects were upward and the top marginal tax rate was 90%.

Prospects: the greatest generation grew up in the depression 30's, then fought a terrible war. Rations, death.
It was a time when people would be happy with a basic job and a stable life. People served the common good and got behind our leaders without a lot of questioning. The soviets were the enemy, not ourselves, with the notable exception of McCarthy.

Today, we expect so much more. If you don't have a mansion and a Ferrari, you are a loser. If you don't vacation in the Maldives or have your own celebrity following, then you've been ripped off.
Our neighbors are our enemies and we are less willing to contribute to the common cause than ever. We've been promised the American Dream and if we don't get it, an injustice has occurred.
Income taxes are much lower, but still too high, so I hear, and states compete to have the lowest rate possible in order to attract jobs. Just like how countries do. But that's a another phenomenon, digression.

I'm positing that it's about expectations.
People lose hope and give up. They develop terrible habits which include not working, they take drugs, they're spirits and drive are shot. And there are not enough helpers at the fringes.

How can we have the level of wealth that we do and so many people are homeless?
Apathy, on either their part or on the part of the rest of us.

The rise and fall of great nations. If people grew up expecting less, I think they'd be doing better.

I was in SF last week and I arrived at one intersection where one guy and stop midstride, like he fell asleep standing up. I waited right in front of him as cars passed me by on the green light. He was bent kneed and hunched back. Wild hair, dirty clothes. Maybe 25 years old? It was sad. A woman pedestrian walked by and said the signal was green for him to keep walking, and to my surprise he immediately continued again. Like a pause/play button, he paused for 30 seconds, in the middle of the crosswalk.
Clearly, drugs, mental health. When people are reduced to this, don't blame the person. So, how did he get this way? And as a reclamation project, it's sometimes too much to expect. I think we've got to prevent his long before it ever gets there. But how???

It's a great question, wife.
What do you think?

I start with early education and opportunity. Get people to age 25 safely.
going4roses
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She does major work with the unhoused folks. Next she comes to Oakland i will try to go help out.

If you can help her out in any fashion please do so she is a real one doing much needed community work based n LA but works LV SD Oakland and of course LA
How (are) you gonna win when you ain’t right within…
calbear93
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going4roses said:



She does major work with the unhoused folks. Next she comes to Oakland i will try to go help out.

If you can help her out in any fashion please do so she is a real one doing much needed community work based n LA but works LV SD Oakland and of course LA
Almost every city has multiple organizations that will prepare backpacks before start of every new school year. Not only school supplies, but hygiene supplies, thin jackets, shoes and socks. People donate supplies and money and then get together over couple of days for volunteers to assemble and for anyone (no questions asked) to pick one up. Just takes one afternoon. Giving kids an opportunity to have some basic goods allows them to have dignity and avoid shame.

There is also opportunities to work with non-profits to assemble packets throughout the year that include basic hygiene needs for the homeless teenagers. Before my kids went off to college, a group of us would make it a monthly activity to order boxes of basic supplies from Amazon or Walmart like toothbrush, toothpaste, wipes, comb, soap, nail clippers, etc. and get together for barbeque and then assemble about 1,000 of these packets in one afternoon over music and drinks. Not a lot of sacrifice, fun with friends and family and a big difference to homeless teenagers.

I would strongly recommend it.

Great job, G4R in bringing this to this group's attention.
TandemBear
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https://americonned.com/

Everyone here should watch this. Then read Nicholas Kristoph's "Tightrope."

If you can't take the time to understand the decimation of the American worker, you have no right to blame drugs, mental health, lack of affordable housing, or any of the other excuses.

American worker wages have been flat for 50 years.

The minimum wage was $1.65 in around 1965. If it had simply followed CPI, inflation, etc., it would be $28 today. That's not taking into account worker productivity.

44% of Americans earn $10.22 or less.

The Rand Study showed how $47 TRILLION dollars left 90% of American paychecks and went to the top from 1975 to 2018.

And we wonder why we have epidemic homelessness?
calbear93
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going4roses said:

Being homeless m/impending threat of brings on mental illness/drug addiction it's NOT the other way around. But the blame always has to be on the individual/their decisions making or lack there of vs the government policies that purposefully produce these outcomes.

I don't think that's accurate.

I work quite a bit with the homeless, and the ones I work with are usually displaced due to lose of job, eviction, or abuse in the family. For these, providing permanent shelter, helping obtain jobs, and training will be beneficial to society, and many of these folks have family and are not losing their mind and getting hooked on drugs. These, together with children who have been trapped in human trafficking, are the ones who are not beyond help and who desperately need our care and investment. Just difficult for our state to do anything since the NIMBY attitude and regulation have made it cost prohibitive to build low cost housing. Our church does a lot of work with providing assistance, training, temporary shelter, but there is very little coordination between private charities and the state, as if the state is offended that others want to help.

I have also worked with people who became homeless because they were addicted, lost their jobs and family as a result, and had no real desire to return to their normal life because drugs have gotten their hooks on them. The liberal policies of just leaving them alone without forcing them into shelters and rehabilitation is resigning them to exploitation, worse addiction, life of crime, and eventually death. Nothing compassionate about the liberal policies for these chronic homeless.
TandemBear
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And I'm beyond sick of listening to "affordable housing" advocates.

"We need more rent control!"
"We need tiny homes!"
"We need more subsidy!"

All these band-aids are NOT the solution. What good does a subsidized rental do you if you want to try to achieve the American Dream of home ownership? Great, you get to barely scrape by, never building a nest egg or some actual wealth. This is NOT what we want. A few below-market rentals will never address overarching problems with our economy.

All of the "affordable housing" advocates do nothing to address home ownership. Only suggesting solutions that totally fail to address the problem: LACK OF INCOME AND PROSPERITY.

While Detroit has bulldozed over 170,000 homes, we in CA have a "housing shortage."

Why can't we think on a national level? All those lost homes in Detroit COULD have been used to house recent college graduates, or school teachers, or AmeriCorps folks, or any number of people needing housing. Nope, let's let the "free market" condemn them so our housing problems worsen. "Socialism" is oh so scary!

But ultimately, we've allowed Reaganomics to wreak havoc throughout the American jobs landscape. It's bad news on virtually every front for the American worker. And for those who went to college, they're accused of "getting the wrong degree!" Goal posts moved; Americans disenfranchised.
going4roses
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This part !!!!
How (are) you gonna win when you ain’t right within…
going4roses
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This part too
How (are) you gonna win when you ain’t right within…
calbear93
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TandemBear said:

And I'm beyond sick of listening to "affordable housing" advocates.

"We need more rent control!"
"We need tiny homes!"
"We need more subsidy!"

All these band-aids are NOT the solution. What good does a subsidized rental do you if you want to try to achieve the American Dream of home ownership? Great, you get to barely scrape by, never building a nest egg or some actual wealth. This is NOT what we want. A few below-market rentals will never address overarching problems with our economy.

All of the "affordable housing" advocates do nothing to address home ownership. Only suggesting solutions that totally fail to address the problem: LACK OF INCOME AND PROSPERITY.

While Detroit has bulldozed over 170,000 homes, we in CA have a "housing shortage."

Why can't we think on a national level? All those lost homes in Detroit COULD have been used to house recent college graduates, or school teachers, or AmeriCorps folks, or any number of people needing housing. Nope, let's let the "free market" condemn them so our housing problems worsen. "Socialism" is oh so scary!

But ultimately, we've allowed Reaganomics to wreak havoc throughout the American jobs landscape. It's bad news on virtually every front for the American worker. And for those who went to college, they're accused of "getting the wrong degree!" Goal posts moved; Americans disenfranchised
Are you talking about addressing homeless situation in CA or providing the American dream?

When people are drowning, like the exploding homeless situation in CA, the solution isn't to yell that they need to learn to become Olympic swimmers.

You need to get them to dry land and pump the water out of their lungs.

What you propose is great theoretically for building middle class and wealth, but you are not going to go from chronic homeless to buying a home in the suburbs with white picket fence.
wifeisafurd
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Maybe time to reintroduce economic realities into the mix. The State has an increasing deficit due to declining income tax revenues, will be making cuts, and if the Governor has his way, there will be no new taxes. The Governor wants to take money allocated to mental health and reallocate the funds to his type of housing, which no one (other than maybe Bearister) is addressing. Today's legislative questions are more about what is being cut, not what programs are being added. There seems to be a lack of understanding that tax revenues and borrowing are finite, and that a dollar committed today on something can't be spent tomorrow on something else - unless the Governor's plan passes, and then those of you championing mental health are seeing far fewer funds dedicated to the area, not more. But the commentary about throwing money on certain new programs, reparations (which presents its own set of challenges and concerns), and other money spending ideas are ignoring the current economic realities. And don't say cut high speed rail, that isn't happening politically.

dimitrig
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It's hard to afford rent and a drug addiction at the same time, especially if you don't want to work.

going4roses
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dimitrig said:


It's hard to afford rent and a drug addiction at the same time, especially if you don't want to work.




Extremely hard to afford the rent when you there aren't enough hours in the week lol

On top of 3xs rent to move in means (1br/1,000 - 3k to move in means living in the vehicle) is the only option.

And going to college for most = college debt a job that barely will pay the bills. Funny that dynamic started when more Black people started going to college
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oski003
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going4roses said:

dimitrig said:


It's hard to afford rent and a drug addiction at the same time, especially if you don't want to work.




Extremely hard to afford the rent when you there aren't enough hours in the week lol

On top of 3xs rent to move in means (1br/1,000 - 3k to move in means living in the vehicle) is the only option.

And going to college for most = college debt a job that barely will pay the bills. Funny that dynamic started when more Black people started going to college


Gosh darn it! College tuition is racist too! Oh Lord!
going4roses
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You said it i didn't
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sycasey
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Not saying this removes the need to build more housing, but this is something I saw recently. It may not be reliable that most homeless in CA's big cities are actually from there. Apparently the study is based on self-reporting?

dimitrig
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sycasey said:

Not saying this removes the need to build more housing, but this is something I saw recently. It may not be reliable that most homeless in CA's big cities are actually from there. Apparently the study is based on self-reporting?




Homeless advocates: Hi there!

Homeless person wearing a baseball hat with a Texas flag on it:

Howdy partner! How y'all doin'?

Advocate: How long have you lived in San Francisco?

Homeless person: I've lived in Frisco my entire life. I was born right here in San Fran in fact.

Advocate: Great! Do you use drugs?

Homeless person: Never done anything like that. No sir as God is my witness. No smack, no weed, no fuf, no nothing. Why? Got some?

Advocate: No, sorry. Are you employed?

Homeless person: Not since I was fired from Whataburger for being tardy. It wadn't like I ain't done shown up. And someone else stole that money went missing.

Advocate: Why are you homeless?

Homeless person: Housing is so expensive!

Advocate: Thank you so much. It must be so hard!

Homeless person: Oh, it is honey bunches.
wifeisafurd
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sycasey said:

Not saying this removes the need to build more housing, but this is something I saw recently. It may not be reliable that most homeless in CA's big cities are actually from there. Apparently the study is based on self-reporting?


Interesting post,

There certainly are many vested interests in the low income housing game.
sycasey
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wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

Not saying this removes the need to build more housing, but this is something I saw recently. It may not be reliable that most homeless in CA's big cities are actually from there. Apparently the study is based on self-reporting?


Interesting post,

There certainly are many vested interests in the low income housing game.

And I'm not sure exactly what the truth is about native homeless in California. Probably not as high a percentage as the numbers claim, but still somewhat significant. I have always suspected, though, that part of the issue with California in particular is that it tends to attract more homeless form elsewhere, especially to the major cities, for a variety of reasons. That makes it a multifaceted problem that can't ONLY be solved by building more housing locally (though to be clear, I think that still needs to happen).
dimitrig
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sycasey said:

wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

Not saying this removes the need to build more housing, but this is something I saw recently. It may not be reliable that most homeless in CA's big cities are actually from there. Apparently the study is based on self-reporting?


Interesting post,

There certainly are many vested interests in the low income housing game.

And I'm not sure exactly what the truth is about native homeless in California. Probably not as high a percentage as the numbers claim, but still somewhat significant. I have always suspected, though, that part of the issue with California in particular is that it tends to attract more homeless form elsewhere, especially to the major cities, for a variety of reasons. That makes it a multifaceted problem that can't ONLY be solved by building more housing locally (though to be clear, I think that still needs to happen).


I see who the homeless are in my community and there are the regulars who have been here a long time and then there are these people who just show up one day. You can tell they aren't from around here and most of them disappear after just a short while to be replaced by others. There is a reason another word for these people is transients. There aren't that many permanently homeless locals and the ones that exist have clear mental problems that need addressing.
bearister
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My understanding from the new report on homelessness is that lack of affordable housing is the real culprit in perpetuating homelessness. My opinion is that lack of treatment for substance abuse and mental health issues is the major contributing factor.

How do these articles fit into that debate:

San Francisco Dishes Out Millions More to Damaged Shelter-in-Place Hotels


https://sfstandard.com/public-health/homelessness/san-francisco-dishes-out-millions-more-to-damaged-shelter-in-place-hotels/

SF Hotels That Served as Pandemic Homeless Shelters Continue Seeking Millions In Damages From City


https://sfist.com/2022/11/23/sf-hotels-that-served-as-pandemic-homeless-shelters-continue-seeking-millions-in-damages-from-city/
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TandemBear
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"Market forces" make you ask, "Why don't Americans WANT to work?"

You'll find the answer if you simply ask and answer this question.

Our grandparents "wanted" to work because when they did, it brought prosperity. Coming out of their a$$es! You just held down a decent job, and you achieved the Dream. And if you did a little better for yourself, studied and worked a little harder, even more reward came your way.

This is now the exception, not the rule.

44% of Americans earn $10.22 or less. "Shoulda made better life choices?" Half the country can't all be WalMart CEOS or coders!
going4roses
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Exactly… people work now and see no way to get ahead/break even living constantly in the Red is F ed up
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DiabloWags
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https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/california-homelessness-study-18152805.php

Research belies "myth" of homeless migration.

bearister
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TandemBear said:

"Market forces" make you ask, "Why don't Americans WANT to work?"

You'll find the answer if you simply ask and answer this question.

Our grandparents "wanted" to work because when they did, it brought prosperity. Coming out of their a$$es! You just held down a decent job, and you achieved the Dream. And if you did a little better for yourself, studied and worked a little harder, even more reward came your way.

This is now the exception, not the rule.

44% of Americans earn $10.22 or less. "Shoulda made better life choices?" Half the country can't all be WalMart CEOS or coders!


What is the solution?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention

“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
dimitrig
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TandemBear said:

"Market forces" make you ask, "Why don't Americans WANT to work?"

You'll find the answer if you simply ask and answer this question.

Our grandparents "wanted" to work because when they did, it brought prosperity. Coming out of their a$$es! You just held down a decent job, and you achieved the Dream. And if you did a little better for yourself, studied and worked a little harder, even more reward came your way.

This is now the exception, not the rule.

44% of Americans earn $10.22 or less. "Shoulda made better life choices?" Half the country can't all be WalMart CEOS or coders!


Please cite your source for the stat that 44% of Americans earn $10.22 or less.

That can't possibly be correct unless you are counting Americans who aren't working such as retirees, students, etc

"In 2021, the median hourly earnings of wage and salary workers in the United States was 17.02 U.S. dollars."

Granted, median is 50% and not 44% but that 44% sounds cherry-picked. Otherwise, why not cite the median?

Link:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/185335/median-hourly-earnings-of-wage-and-salary-workers/#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20the%20median%20hourly,were%20at%204.44%20U.S.%20dollars.

bearister
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Hypothetical: This is your business. What do you do? I move. That's all I got.

https://abc7news.com/society/exclusive-sf-artist-upset-as-unhoused-woman-blocks-gallery-elevator/13417231/

What is the solution?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention

“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
dimitrig
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:

Hypothetical: This is your business. What do you do? I move. That's all I got.

https://abc7news.com/society/exclusive-sf-artist-upset-as-unhoused-woman-blocks-gallery-elevator/13417231/

What is the solution?


Hire some guys from the Home Depot parking lot to throw it all in a dumpster and pretend I didn't have anything to do with it.

What my dad used to do at his business was give them free food and a little cash on the condition that they don't keep their crap there - but that was in the days when they were just winos and not crazed tweakers.
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