The Non-Yogi Israel-Palestine war thread

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oski003
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:33p, 1/31/24
Cal88 said:
This thread has gone from people arguing whether the bombing that killed dozens at the entrance of Al Shifa hospital was done by Israel or by Hamas, and whether a dead baby was real or some kind of expensive doll prop, to ignoring that most of Gaza has already been bombed out.

Those who were lucky enough to not belong to the 5% of the population that was killed or injured are now having to face disease and starvation with thousands of corpses rotting under the rubble, no sanitation and no running water, left to the elements without shelter.

This is the current harrowing picture today, showing the extent of the Israeli carpet bombing of nearly all neighborhoods in Gaza:



https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2024/jan/30/how-war-destroyed-gazas-neighbourhoods-visual-investigation



When is Hamas going to release the hostages and leave Gaza? If they did that, would Israel still bomb Gaza? Alternatively, couldn't Hamas at least release the hostages and agree to amend their mission to support the people of Gaza instead of to have their main goal be the destruction of Israel?
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Cal88
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In reply to oski003 • 7:45p, 1/31/24
oski003 said:
Cal88 said:
This thread has gone from people arguing whether the bombing that killed dozens at the entrance of Al Shifa hospital was done by Israel or by Hamas, and whether a dead baby was real or some kind of expensive doll prop, to ignoring that most of Gaza has already been bombed out.

Those who were lucky enough to not belong to the 5% of the population that was killed or injured are now having to face disease and starvation with thousands of corpses rotting under the rubble, no sanitation and no running water, left to the elements without shelter.

This is the current harrowing picture today, showing the extent of the Israeli carpet bombing of nearly all neighborhoods in Gaza:



https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2024/jan/30/how-war-destroyed-gazas-neighbourhoods-visual-investigation

When is Hamas going to release the hostages and leave Gaza? If they did that, would Israel still bomb Gaza? Alternatively, couldn't Hamas at least release the hostages and agree to amend their mission to support the people of Gaza instead of to have their main goal be the destruction of Israel?

Israel would still bomb Gaza, they have killed over a hundred Israeli citizens and/or hostages, applying a military doctrine called the Hannibal Directive.



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oski003
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:55p, 1/31/24
Cal88 said:
oski003 said:
Cal88 said:
This thread has gone from people arguing whether the bombing that killed dozens at the entrance of Al Shifa hospital was done by Israel or by Hamas, and whether a dead baby was real or some kind of expensive doll prop, to ignoring that most of Gaza has already been bombed out.

Those who were lucky enough to not belong to the 5% of the population that was killed or injured are now having to face disease and starvation with thousands of corpses rotting under the rubble, no sanitation and no running water, left to the elements without shelter.

This is the current harrowing picture today, showing the extent of the Israeli carpet bombing of nearly all neighborhoods in Gaza:



https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2024/jan/30/how-war-destroyed-gazas-neighbourhoods-visual-investigation

When is Hamas going to release the hostages and leave Gaza? If they did that, would Israel still bomb Gaza? Alternatively, couldn't Hamas at least release the hostages and agree to amend their mission to support the people of Gaza instead of to have their main goal be the destruction of Israel?

Israel would still bomb Gaza, they have killed over a hundred Israeli citizens and/or hostages, applying a military doctrine called the Hannibal Directive.





IF Israel still bombed Gaza after Hamas released the hostages, gave up leadership and left Gaza, I would be 100% against Israel here. I would condemn them.
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Lets Go Brandon 3
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4:56p, 2/1/24



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CaliforniaEternal
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11:02a, 2/2/24
This is why the Hamas monsters need to be destroyed. There are many mentally disturbed people denying that Israel was attacked. They should all be made to watch this video.

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Lets Go Brandon 3
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In reply to CaliforniaEternal • 11:55a, 2/2/24
CaliforniaEternal said:
This is why the Hamas monsters need to be destroyed. There are many mentally disturbed people denying that Israel was attacked. They should all be made to watch this video.





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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to CaliforniaEternal • 12:12p, 2/2/24
CaliforniaEternal said:
This is why the Hamas monsters need to be destroyed. There are many mentally disturbed people denying that Israel was attacked. They should all be made to watch this video.



I don't think it's helpful to dehumanize Hamas. They are very much human and sadly have been radicalized to hate and murder Jewish people. Sadly institutions that should have been doing good like UNRWA were co-opted and just led to more radicalization.

Any calls for a ceasefire by Israel are premature and can't be taken seriously as long as Hamas continues to hold hostage and remains in power.

Hamas declared war and must be defeated for the war to end, regardless of what clueless western sympathizers will get their city councils to vote for.

It's unfortunate that so many Western people think they are doing something useful for Palestinians or oppressed Muslim people through their anti semitic protests. Where were they when Assad brutalized his people? Or the Ayatollah? Or what happened in Yemen? Now they support the brutal anti semitic Houthis. Somehow they get much more engaged when the conflict is between Muslims and Jewish people than any other conflict.
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bear2034
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1:00p, 2/2/24
The J6 insurrectionists almost took over the United States and scared the Democrats to death. Maybe Joe Biden should cut a deal to release them from prison and send them to Gaza to help free the hostages from Hamas and prevent further civilian deaths. Arm them with the same weapons they used during the J6 Capitol insurrection, American flags and selfie sticks. When the mission is complete, Biden can then send ships to transport everyone back to the U.S.-Mexico border except Hamas, where they can claim asylum. I don't see how this is not a win-win for everyone.
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cbbass1
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1:21p, 2/2/24
U.S. President Joe Biden is a Netanyahu/AIPAC puppet.

Prove me wrong.
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CaliforniaEternal
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 1:56p, 2/2/24
It's clear from the beginning of this conflict that the anti-Israel people only care about weakening Israel and do not give any hoot about peace. They were out in the streets right after 10/7 celebrating and calling for jihad. Of course they don't bother to protest against actual human rights issues like in Syria, Yemen, Iran, etc. These people hate seeing Hamas being routed and want a ceasefire to preserve Iran's tentacles in Gaza.
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sycasey
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In reply to cbbass1 • 2:40p, 2/2/24
cbbass1 said:
U.S. President Joe Biden is a Netanyahu/AIPAC puppet.

Prove me wrong.
He is roughly following general public opinion on Israel vs. Palestine.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/12/08/americans-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/

The people who "disapprove" of his handling of the war are mostly Republicans, and I guarantee you they do not want more help for Palestine.
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cbbass1
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In reply to CaliforniaEternal • 3:22p, 2/2/24
CaliforniaEternal said:
It's clear from the beginning of this conflict that the anti-Israel people only care about weakening Israel and do not give any hoot about peace. They were out in the streets right after 10/7 celebrating and calling for jihad. Of course they don't bother to protest against actual human rights issues like in Syria, Yemen, Iran, etc. These people hate seeing Hamas being routed and want a ceasefire to preserve Iran's tentacles in Gaza.
First, the people who are protesting genocide in Gaza aren't "anti-Israel."

They simply know that Israel can't bomb & kill its way to lasting peace. Lasting peace can only happen with a Palestinian state.

By continuing with genocide & ethnic cleansing, Israel is ensuring its own annihilation. Bibi, wanting the U.S. to attack Iran, and wanting a broader conflict, should be very careful what he wishes for.

Besides, Israel isn't going to be able to defeat Hamas militarily. To do that, they have to go into Gaza & attack them in the tunnels. IDF has lost 500+ soldiers in that effort so far.

By destroying all the buildings and killing so many civilians, the IDF has made Gaza infinitely easier to defend, and nearly impossible to attack. It's by far the most challenging and dangerous fighting that the IDF could do, and its inexperienced, out-of-shape reservists are getting slaughtered. The Israeli economy will crash long before the IDF defeats Hamas.

Anyone celebrating the 10/7 Hamas attack on Israel was just as disgusting as the Israelis celebrating the bombing of Gaza, and the genocide & ethnic cleansing.

I don't see a whole lot of difference.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 3:25p, 2/2/24
sycasey said:
cbbass1 said:
U.S. President Joe Biden is a Netanyahu/AIPAC puppet.

Prove me wrong.
He is roughly following general public opinion on Israel vs. Palestine.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/12/08/americans-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/

The people who "disapprove" of his handling of the war are mostly Republicans, and I guarantee you they do not want more help for Palestine.

This survey is 2 months old. A lot of the younger Democrat demographic is not on board with the ongoing mass slaughter of Gazans.
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to cbbass1 • 3:40p, 2/2/24
cbbass1 said:
CaliforniaEternal said:
It's clear from the beginning of this conflict that the anti-Israel people only care about weakening Israel and do not give any hoot about peace. They were out in the streets right after 10/7 celebrating and calling for jihad. Of course they don't bother to protest against actual human rights issues like in Syria, Yemen, Iran, etc. These people hate seeing Hamas being routed and want a ceasefire to preserve Iran's tentacles in Gaza.
First, the people who are protesting genocide in Gaza aren't "anti-Israel."

They simply know that Israel can't bomb & kill its way to lasting peace. Lasting peace can only happen with a Palestinian state.

By continuing with genocide & ethnic cleansing, Israel is ensuring its own annihilation. Bibi, wanting the U.S. to attack Iran, and wanting a broader conflict, should be very careful what he wishes for.

Besides, Israel isn't going to be able to defeat Hamas militarily. To do that, they have to go into Gaza & attack them in the tunnels. IDF has lost 500+ soldiers in that effort so far.

By destroying all the buildings and killing so many civilians, the IDF has made Gaza infinitely easier to defend, and nearly impossible to attack. It's by far the most challenging and dangerous fighting that the IDF could do, and its inexperienced, out-of-shape reservists are getting slaughtered. The Israeli economy will crash long before the IDF defeats Hamas.

Anyone celebrating the 10/7 Hamas attack on Israel was just as disgusting as the Israelis celebrating the bombing of Gaza, and the genocide & ethnic cleansing.

I don't see a whole lot of difference.


Why would Iran care about a Palestinian state? This idea that all of these anti semites will stop wanting to genocide all Jewish people because their pawns form a state is incredibly naive.

The Middle East has never been interested in a lasting peace with Israel. They want Israel destroyed and all Jewish people gone. The Palestinian people have been and remain a fulcrum that Iran and others use to create leverage for their holy war and naive westerners fall for it.

There is zero reason to believe that Iran (and Putin) started this war because they care about Gazans. This was just another play in their long game.
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CaliforniaEternal
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In reply to cbbass1 • 4:01p, 2/2/24
Ok you're completely delusional. Israel is ensuring its annihilation by pounding away at Hamas terrorists? That's exactly what will help Israel gain security by removing terrorist infrastructure in schools, mosques, etc. And yes, if Israel does withdraw then Hamas will reemerge because that's who their populace supports hence the need to create a solid buffer zone and hopefully regain control of the border with Egypt. Good humor about out of shape Israeli reservists. I'd venture that there aren't many armies in the world that would want to go head to head with the out of shape IDF.
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bearister
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4:53p, 2/2/24
Thomas Friedman: A Biden Doctrine for the Middle East is forming. And it's big Twin Cities


https://www.twincities.com/2024/02/01/thomas-friedman-a-biden-doctrine-for-the-middle-east-is-forming-and-its-big/

Your thoughts?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 5:12p, 2/2/24
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
cbbass1 said:
U.S. President Joe Biden is a Netanyahu/AIPAC puppet.

Prove me wrong.
He is roughly following general public opinion on Israel vs. Palestine.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/12/08/americans-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/

The people who "disapprove" of his handling of the war are mostly Republicans, and I guarantee you they do not want more help for Palestine.

This survey is 2 months old. A lot of the younger Democrat demographic is not on board with the ongoing mass slaughter of Gazans.
It's true that younger people are more sympathetic to Palestine. But Biden is not only governing the younger Democrat demographic. This is a "you need to change more hearts and minds" thing, not a "Biden won't listen to the will of the people" thing.
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dajo9
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In reply to bearister • 7:00p, 2/2/24
bearister said:
Thomas Friedman: A Biden Doctrine for the Middle East is forming. And it's big Twin Cities


https://www.twincities.com/2024/02/01/thomas-friedman-a-biden-doctrine-for-the-middle-east-is-forming-and-its-big/

Your thoughts?


My thoughts are I don't read Mr. Suck On This
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/03/-suck-on-this/38239/
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Lets Go Brandon 3
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In reply to bearister • 10:36p, 2/2/24
bearister said:
Thomas Friedman: A Biden Doctrine for the Middle East is forming. And it's big Twin Cities


https://www.twincities.com/2024/02/01/thomas-friedman-a-biden-doctrine-for-the-middle-east-is-forming-and-its-big/

Your thoughts?
bearister likes Thomas Friedman and Bill Maher. He's a couple of more lost brain cells from becoming AntiochWags and posting Peggy Noonan articles and wondering why no one else is as excited about them as he is.




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cbbass1
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In reply to CaliforniaEternal • 8:33p, 2/3/24
CaliforniaEternal said:
Ok you're completely delusional. Israel is ensuring its annihilation by pounding away at Hamas terrorists? That's exactly what will help Israel gain security by removing terrorist infrastructure in schools, mosques, etc. And yes, if Israel does withdraw then Hamas will reemerge because that's who their populace supports hence the need to create a solid buffer zone and hopefully regain control of the border with Egypt. Good humor about out of shape Israeli reservists. I'd venture that there aren't many armies in the world that would want to go head to head with the out of shape IDF.
Israel & the IDF are NOT willing to pay the price to eliminate Hamas. Hamas now owns & controls Northern Gaza. IDF soldiers don't want to die in Hamas' tunnels.

Israel doesn't gain any security by attacking Hamas. We have yet to see ANY sign of this "Hamas infrastructure." Like that huge Command & Control Center under the hospital that they destroyed, full of dead & maimed civilians.

Bibi sold Israelis a bill of goods. He said that if we (Israelis) just allow them the bare minimum to survive, and kill them periodically to keep their population down (i.e., "mowing the grass"), then everything will be JUST FINE.

Hamas showed the entire nation of Israel on 10/7 that Netanyahu was 100% wrong; and that for all the $billions that they & the U.S. had invested in their walls, fences, barriers, RC guns, surveillance, etc., they really were not any safer.


Quote:
This isn't a war against Hamas. It's not a war at all. It's a military operation to facilitate an ethnic cleansing.

Hamas isn't the target, it's the excuse.

Quote:
Israel isn't bombing Gaza with the intention of wiping out Hamas, Israel is bombing Gaza with the intention of wiping out Gaza.
Both of the above quotes are from Caitlin Johnstone:
https://caitlinjohnstone.com.au/2023/11/27/hamas-isnt-the-target-its-the-excuse/
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bearister
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In reply to Lets Go Brandon 3 • 8:49p, 2/3/24
…and you are a proctor walking up and down the aisle during purity tests. You only complain, demean people and never offer any practical solutions for anything. You are like a donkey on a treadmill chasing a carrot.


Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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Big C
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In reply to Cal88 • 11:03p, 2/3/24
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
cbbass1 said:
U.S. President Joe Biden is a Netanyahu/AIPAC puppet.

Prove me wrong.
He is roughly following general public opinion on Israel vs. Palestine.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/12/08/americans-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/

The people who "disapprove" of his handling of the war are mostly Republicans, and I guarantee you they do not want more help for Palestine.

This survey is 2 months old. A lot of the younger Democrat demographic is not on board with the ongoing mass slaughter of Gazans.

Two months?!? That's not very old at all compared to Joe Biden!
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Lets Go Brandon 3
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In reply to bearister • 11:48p, 2/3/24
bearister said:
…and you are a proctor walking up and down the aisle during purity tests. You only complain, demean people and never offer any practical solutions for anything. You are like a donkey on a treadmill chasing a carrot.
The next solution you offer to anything will be your first.
,
Now, go post another song in your personal music thread, geezer.


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Lets Go Brandon 3
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12:34a, 2/4/24



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Unit2Sucks
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3:56p, 2/4/24
Hamas teaching Palestinian youth the value of a hard day's work.




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Cal88
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 4:37p, 2/4/24
Unit2Sucks said:
Hamas teaching Palestinian youth the value of a hard day's work.



The gall of your propagandists making up stories about children being buried alive, when their bombs have already crushed to death 13,000 children in Gaza.
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CaliforniaEternal
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In reply to cbbass1 • 7:19p, 2/4/24
You follow the Islamic propaganda that Israelis are weak and won't stomach casualties to clear the threats to its sovereign territory. That is a lie and the IDF will regain deterrence as it always does. Your fake logic is what drove Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Jordan into ruinous wars against Israel and it always ended with Israel gaining a further advantage. You sure do traffic in a lot of tropes about Jews and Israel and don't seem to have any shame about it.
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Cal88
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In reply to CaliforniaEternal • 7:43p, 2/4/24
CaliforniaEternal said:
You follow the Islamic propaganda that Israelis are weak and won't stomach casualties to clear the threats to its sovereign territory. That is a lie and the IDF will regain deterrence as it always does. Your fake logic is what drove Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Jordan into ruinous wars against Israel and it always ended with Israel gaining a further advantage. You sure do traffic in a lot of tropes about Jews and Israel and don't seem to have any shame about it.

Yes indeed, the Israelis have had a long history of "clearing the threats".





Quote:
Haaretz reveals the IDF was directly running the Telegram channel 72 Virgins, which posted extremely graphic daily content from the front to glorify war crimes against Palestinians.
https://haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2024-02-04/ty-article/.premium/israeli-army-its-admits-staff-was-behind-graphic-gaza-telegram-channel/0000018d-70b4-dd6e-a98d-f4b6a9c00000…

Relevant excerpts from the article:

"Reversing an earlier denial, Israeli military officials have admitted that the Telegram channel 72 Virgins Uncensored was operated by members of a department of the Israel Defense Forces' Operations Directorate.

The channel's administrators posted graphic content on a daily basis. An October 11 post read: 'Burning their mother… You won't believe the video we got! You can hear their bones crunch. We'll post it right away, get ready.'

Photos of Palestinian men captured by the IDF in the Strip and the bodies of [Palestinians] were captioned: "Exterminating the roaches… exterminating the Hamas rats… Share this beauty."

On October 14, alongside the caption "Exclusive video of a good night, don't forget to share and repost" was a video of an Israeli vehicle repeatedly driving over the body of a [Palestinian]. 'Very good, Gershon!!! Run him over run him over!!!! Screw the *******s! Flatten them,' the accompanying text read."

Please note that in the paragraph above I substituted 2 mentions of "terrorist" by "[Palestinian]" because it's simply awful journalism by Haaretz to label all those killed by the IDF as "terrorists" by default, especially given the fact we all know such a huge percentage of the victims are in fact civilians...

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sycasey
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8:35p, 2/4/24
So I am in favor of a ceasefire. But it's worth noting that not only Israel has to agree to it.

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Lets Go Brandon 3
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 9:44p, 2/4/24
Unit2Sucks said:
Hamas teaching Palestinian youth the value of a hard day's work.

I knew Unit2Sucks was a closet conservative given his love of neoconservative Iraq cheerleaders like David Frum, but I didn't realize he was a Tablet Magazine reader as well.

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CaliforniaEternal
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:53p, 2/4/24
You sure love following every Jew hating psycho on the internet don't you?
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Lets Go Brandon 3
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In reply to sycasey • 11:18p, 2/5/24
sycasey said:
So I am in favor of a ceasefire. But it's worth noting that not only Israel has to agree to it.


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Lets Go Brandon 3
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In reply to CaliforniaEternal • 5:08p, 2/6/24
CaliforniaEternal said:
You sure love following every Jew hating psycho on the internet don't you?

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Lets Go Brandon 3
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 5:37p, 2/7/24
Unit2Sucks said:
tequila4kapp said:
News report: 12 members of UNRWA voluntarily participated in the 10/7 Hamas terrorist attack. US pauses further aid.

The UNRWA is supposed to be the neutral UN agency that delivers aid, etc. UN employees are not just "not neutral", they are actual terrorists.
UNRWA is unlike every other UN agency. It's been problematic for decades due to its close ties to Hamas leadership and its way past time for the UN to do something about it. Hiding weapons caches, teaching anti-semitism, teachers housing hostages post 10/7, etc. It needs to be re-constituted as an independent organization after Hamas is eliminated.

I believe I've posted about it in this thread or others have, but this is about the least surprising news I've heard today.


Unit2Sucks falling for more war propaganda is about the least surprising news I've read today
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Lets Go Brandon 3
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6:19p, 2/10/24
Jim Crow laws in Israel


IDF murders 6 year old girl and family, but legacy media whitewashes the crime



Israel pretends they are willing to create a Palestinian state and the U.S. is willing to perpetuate the lie


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