The Non-Yogi Israel-Palestine war thread

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bear2034
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In reply to dajo9 • 1:28p, 4/20/24
dajo9 said:
bear2034 said:
dajo9 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
cbbass1 said:
But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.


I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.
The Iraq War is the guide here. I don't know about winning a war with Iran. Doubtful. Unless you think we won the war with Iraq. Here's the deal. We could **** up Iran just like we ****ed up Iraq. Lots of dead people. Iran could not **** us up like that. I'm against being involved in the Middle East.

The sons and daughters of the deplorables are done being involved the Middle East too. I know you think Biden should deserve more credit for pulling out of Afghanistan but because he pulled out in reverse order, he'll never get the credit due to the loss of life and billions of dollars of equipment that could have been easily avoided.
The deplorables voted to send their children to Iraq. I'm glad they've come around to my side on that issue.


Yes, we agree these people are nuts funding never ending wars.
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dajo9
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In reply to bear2034 • 1:41p, 4/20/24
bear2034 said:
dajo9 said:
bear2034 said:
dajo9 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
cbbass1 said:
But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.


I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.
The Iraq War is the guide here. I don't know about winning a war with Iran. Doubtful. Unless you think we won the war with Iraq. Here's the deal. We could **** up Iran just like we ****ed up Iraq. Lots of dead people. Iran could not **** us up like that. I'm against being involved in the Middle East.

The sons and daughters of the deplorables are done being involved the Middle East too. I know you think Biden should deserve more credit for pulling out of Afghanistan but because he pulled out in reverse order, he'll never get the credit due to the loss of life and billions of dollars of equipment that could have been easily avoided.
The deplorables voted to send their children to Iraq. I'm glad they've come around to my side on that issue.


Yes, we agree these people are nuts funding never ending wars.


Whose children are leaving their country and going to Ukraine?
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bear2034
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In reply to dajo9 • 1:46p, 4/20/24
dajo9 said:
bear2034 said:
dajo9 said:
bear2034 said:
dajo9 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
cbbass1 said:
But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.


I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.
The Iraq War is the guide here. I don't know about winning a war with Iran. Doubtful. Unless you think we won the war with Iraq. Here's the deal. We could **** up Iran just like we ****ed up Iraq. Lots of dead people. Iran could not **** us up like that. I'm against being involved in the Middle East.

The sons and daughters of the deplorables are done being involved the Middle East too. I know you think Biden should deserve more credit for pulling out of Afghanistan but because he pulled out in reverse order, he'll never get the credit due to the loss of life and billions of dollars of equipment that could have been easily avoided.
The deplorables voted to send their children to Iraq. I'm glad they've come around to my side on that issue.


Yes, we agree these people are nuts funding never ending wars.


Whose children are leaving their country and going to Ukraine?

Most definitely not their children.
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dajo9
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In reply to bear2034 • 3:16p, 4/20/24
bear2034 said:
dajo9 said:
bear2034 said:
dajo9 said:
bear2034 said:
dajo9 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
cbbass1 said:
But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.


I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.
The Iraq War is the guide here. I don't know about winning a war with Iran. Doubtful. Unless you think we won the war with Iraq. Here's the deal. We could **** up Iran just like we ****ed up Iraq. Lots of dead people. Iran could not **** us up like that. I'm against being involved in the Middle East.

The sons and daughters of the deplorables are done being involved the Middle East too. I know you think Biden should deserve more credit for pulling out of Afghanistan but because he pulled out in reverse order, he'll never get the credit due to the loss of life and billions of dollars of equipment that could have been easily avoided.
The deplorables voted to send their children to Iraq. I'm glad they've come around to my side on that issue.


Yes, we agree these people are nuts funding never ending wars.


Whose children are leaving their country and going to Ukraine?

Most definitely not their children.


Russian children
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Unit2Sucks
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3:30p, 4/20/24
Did Iran destroy Israel and the US with its overwhelming military superiority yet?

I believe leftists have claimed that Israel was kicking off WW3 and would be hopelessly outgunned by Iran who "holds all the cards".



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Palestinian Chicken
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In reply to CaliforniaEternal • 1:43a, 4/22/24


Quote:
The survey, conducted Feb. 13-25, finds that younger and older Jews often view the war differently, mirroring patterns in the broader U.S. public. In both groups, younger adults tend to express much more negative attitudes toward Israel than older Americans do. U.S. Jews also differ by age when it comes to the level of connection they feel with Israel, as we found in our 2020 survey of Jewish Americans.
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Unit2Sucks
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9:17a, 4/22/24
Getting harder and harder to tell the difference between pro-Palestine leftists and avowed anti-semites. The quiet part is increasingly being said out loud.





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sycasey
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 9:45a, 4/22/24
Unit2Sucks said:
Getting harder and harder to tell the difference between pro-Palestine leftists and avowed anti-semites. The quiet part is increasingly being said out loud.

As I've noted, I am sympathetic to the pro-Palestine view. But I haven't ever wanted to get involved with the "movement," because I think this kind of element will show up. It shouldn't be that hard to keep your criticism of the Israeli government separate from criticism of Jewish people, yet apparently it is.

(And yes, I will grant that the right-wing Israeli government often deliberately conflates these two things for their own political advantage as well. But if you're a leftist taking on their line of argument . . . maybe start rethinking some things.)
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to sycasey • 9:51a, 4/22/24
sycasey said:
Unit2Sucks said:
Getting harder and harder to tell the difference between pro-Palestine leftists and avowed anti-semites. The quiet part is increasingly being said out loud.

As I've noted, I am sympathetic to the pro-Palestine view. But I haven't ever wanted to get involved with the "movement," because I think this kind of element will show up. It shouldn't be that hard to keep your criticism of the Israeli government separate from criticism of Jewish people, yet apparently it is.

(And yes, I will grant that the right-wing Israeli government often deliberately conflates these two things for their own political advantage as well. But if you're a leftist taking on their line of argument . . . maybe start rethinking some things.)
I have sympathies for the Palestinians, not the "pro-Palestine view." The latter has attracted some awful people and those awful people seem to have a lot of sway over the direction. It's pointless and misdirected outrage combined with vile hate.
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Zippergate
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10:41a, 4/22/24
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Palestinian Chicken
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 10:50a, 4/22/24
Unit2Sucks said:
Getting harder and harder to tell the difference between pro-Palestine leftists and avowed anti-semites

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CaliforniaEternal
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11:50a, 4/22/24
Ritchie Torres is a hero of the Jewish people. I am in awe of how his support to the Jewish community and Israel has been unwavering. As we celebrate Passover tonight, we can see clearly who our friends are and just like the ancient Egyptians, how there are many who still wish to destroy us.

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bear2034
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12:57p, 4/22/24
The crisis at Columbia University is stealing the headlines from Trump's court cases as it should be. It's ten thousand times worse than Charlottesville.

Will Biden have his "fine people on both sides" press conference with the media?
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Big C
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In reply to movielover • 5:26p, 4/22/24
movielover said:
NATO is stronger than Russia? Says who?

Apparently you aren't aware or are being purposefully disingenuous about NATO, the EU, & Uncle Sam scavenging the world for artillery shells and ammunitions.

Then you purposefully mistate Putins reckless regard for life. Indeed, Russia starts with shelling positions, then send in drones, then more shelling, and then they eventually send in ex cons to ferret out the remaining opposition. Recently they started using glide bombs to clear out trenches. Over a year ago an inside Western military analysis detailed the lopsided kill ratio in Russia's favor.

Ukraine is irreparably broken, and we're sending more young people to be slaughtered in a Fool's Errand. Given the West's hopeless position, we continue to read suggestions of using 'tactical nukes'.

I guess UKR will have to lose another 100-200K men bc of Biden's poor election position.

Says me, for one. The reason I know that NATO is stronger than Russia is because one single member of NATO is much stronger than Russia. (That would be us.) And then when you add in the other countries...

Why do you hate America? Is it just because there's a Democrat in the White House? So sad...
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movielover
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In reply to Big C • 6:27p, 4/22/24
Facts and emotions are two different things. Colonel McGregor today repeats that our stockpiles are low, including 155 shells and precision-guided missiles. We have great technology, but lead times are huge. And in some cases, cheap drones are taking out multi-million-dollar missiles. Not a good trade.

We've got thousands of great tanks, but how do we get them to the theater? What happens when $10M tanks get hobbled by $10,000 drones?

We have two proxy wars in progress, we haven't hit our recruitment numbers, and we focus on social issues like DEI and gender transitioning.

If we were in a war with Russia, who would supply our ammunition, 155 shells? We have no 'surge capacity'.
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Cal88
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In reply to Big C • 7:39p, 4/22/24
Big C said:
movielover said:
NATO is stronger than Russia? Says who?

Apparently you aren't aware or are being purposefully disingenuous about NATO, the EU, & Uncle Sam scavenging the world for artillery shells and ammunitions.

Then you purposefully mistate Putins reckless regard for life. Indeed, Russia starts with shelling positions, then send in drones, then more shelling, and then they eventually send in ex cons to ferret out the remaining opposition. Recently they started using glide bombs to clear out trenches. Over a year ago an inside Western military analysis detailed the lopsided kill ratio in Russia's favor.

Ukraine is irreparably broken, and we're sending more young people to be slaughtered in a Fool's Errand. Given the West's hopeless position, we continue to read suggestions of using 'tactical nukes'.

I guess UKR will have to lose another 100-200K men bc of Biden's poor election position.

Says me, for one. The reason I know that NATO is stronger than Russia is because one single member of NATO is much stronger than Russia. (That would be us.) And then when you add in the other countries...

Why do you hate America? Is it just because there's a Democrat in the White House? So sad...

The Russians are undefeated at home, 2-0 vs the two greatest armies of the last 2 1/2 centuries. Great ground game, and outstanding pass defense, with superior depth, and today, the most experienced team in the world.

It's all academic though, the notion of a straight up hot war between the US and Russia is out of the question - 10,000 nuclear warheads in that fight.
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MinotStateBeav
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In reply to movielover • 8:05p, 4/22/24
movielover said:
Facts and emotions are two different things. Colonel McGregor today repeats that our stockpiles are low, including 155 shells and precision-guided missiles. We have great technology, but lead times are huge. And in some cases, cheap drones are taking out multi-million-dollar missiles. Not a good trade.

We've got thousands of great tanks, but how do we get them to the theater? What happens when $10M tanks get hobbled by $10,000 drones?

We have two proxy wars in progress, we haven't hit our recruitment numbers, and we focus on social issues like DEI and gender transitioning.

If we were in a war with Russia, who would supply our ammunition, 155 shells? We have no 'surge capacity'.
In fairness when you control the skies, there's not a huge need for artillery. We controlled Iraq in a month and Afghanistan in what 2 weeks? Russia is fighting an adversary with pretty much zero aerial capability so they can use these old tactics. It's kind of strange how our governments are literally pulling their hair out to try and supply an army with things our military doesn't need or hasn't needed in multi-decades.
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Cal88
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In reply to MinotStateBeav • 8:19p, 4/22/24
MinotStateBeav said:
movielover said:
Facts and emotions are two different things. Colonel McGregor today repeats that our stockpiles are low, including 155 shells and precision-guided missiles. We have great technology, but lead times are huge. And in some cases, cheap drones are taking out multi-million-dollar missiles. Not a good trade.

We've got thousands of great tanks, but how do we get them to the theater? What happens when $10M tanks get hobbled by $10,000 drones?

We have two proxy wars in progress, we haven't hit our recruitment numbers, and we focus on social issues like DEI and gender transitioning.

If we were in a war with Russia, who would supply our ammunition, 155 shells? We have no 'surge capacity'.
In fairness when you control the skies, there's not a huge need for artillery. We controlled Iraq in a month and Afghanistan in what 2 weeks? Russia is fighting an adversary with pretty much zero aerial capability so they can use these old tactics. It's kind of strange how our governments are literally pulling their hair out to try and supply an army with things our military doesn't need or hasn't needed in multi-decades.

The combination of the best air defense system with 9,000 missiles and a deep arsenal of advanced stand-off weapons means that it would be extremely difficult to establish any kind of air superiority over Russia. Russia is 10 years ahead of us in terms of hypersonic weapons. Under those circumstances, artillery is king.

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Cal88
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8:55p, 4/22/24
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Big C
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10:46p, 4/22/24

It's an absurd notion io think that the NATO nations, plus S. Korea, Japan and Australia couldn't come up with a s___load of ammo, if we were truly motivated to do so

and if the US were to be in a "conventional" war with Russia, most of it wouldn't be in Russia... but when it was, we'd eat till we had our fill


however, to agree with the Russophiles here, we don't need to fight the rooskies. just because they want Ukraine doesn't mean they are a particular threat to us
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Palestinian Chicken
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In reply to CaliforniaEternal • 12:07a, 4/23/24

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Cal88
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2:43a, 4/23/24





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Unit2Sucks
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7:19a, 4/23/24
Perhaps I'm thinking about the Columbia "activists" the wrong way. They're just preparing for their future.

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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to MinotStateBeav • 9:49a, 4/23/24
MinotStateBeav said:
movielover said:
Facts and emotions are two different things. Colonel McGregor today repeats that our stockpiles are low, including 155 shells and precision-guided missiles. We have great technology, but lead times are huge. And in some cases, cheap drones are taking out multi-million-dollar missiles. Not a good trade.

We've got thousands of great tanks, but how do we get them to the theater? What happens when $10M tanks get hobbled by $10,000 drones?

We have two proxy wars in progress, we haven't hit our recruitment numbers, and we focus on social issues like DEI and gender transitioning.

If we were in a war with Russia, who would supply our ammunition, 155 shells? We have no 'surge capacity'.
In fairness when you control the skies, there's not a huge need for artillery. We controlled Iraq in a month and Afghanistan in what 2 weeks? Russia is fighting an adversary with pretty much zero aerial capability so they can use these old tactics. It's kind of strange how our governments are literally pulling their hair out to try and supply an army with things our military doesn't need or hasn't needed in multi-decades.
It remains shocking that Russia has had one third of it's Black Sea Fleet destroyed or disabled by a Ukraine that has no Navy and "zero aerial capability".
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 9:53a, 4/23/24
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

It remains shocking that Russia has had one third of it's Black Sea Fleet destroyed or disabled by a Ukraine that has no Navy and "zero aerial capability".
That's unfair - since Putin doesn't care about Russian losses, you aren't allowed to either. Only Ukrainian losses count. They are redefining Pyrrhic victory and by that metric, they can't lose.
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oski003
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 10:32a, 4/23/24
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
MinotStateBeav said:
movielover said:
Facts and emotions are two different things. Colonel McGregor today repeats that our stockpiles are low, including 155 shells and precision-guided missiles. We have great technology, but lead times are huge. And in some cases, cheap drones are taking out multi-million-dollar missiles. Not a good trade.

We've got thousands of great tanks, but how do we get them to the theater? What happens when $10M tanks get hobbled by $10,000 drones?

We have two proxy wars in progress, we haven't hit our recruitment numbers, and we focus on social issues like DEI and gender transitioning.

If we were in a war with Russia, who would supply our ammunition, 155 shells? We have no 'surge capacity'.
In fairness when you control the skies, there's not a huge need for artillery. We controlled Iraq in a month and Afghanistan in what 2 weeks? Russia is fighting an adversary with pretty much zero aerial capability so they can use these old tactics. It's kind of strange how our governments are literally pulling their hair out to try and supply an army with things our military doesn't need or hasn't needed in multi-decades.
It remains shocking that Russia has had one third of it's Black Sea Fleet destroyed or disabled by a Ukraine that has no Navy and "zero aerial capability".


They have drones, NATO weaponry, and intelligence.
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to oski003 • 10:49a, 4/23/24
oski003 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
MinotStateBeav said:
movielover said:
Facts and emotions are two different things. Colonel McGregor today repeats that our stockpiles are low, including 155 shells and precision-guided missiles. We have great technology, but lead times are huge. And in some cases, cheap drones are taking out multi-million-dollar missiles. Not a good trade.

We've got thousands of great tanks, but how do we get them to the theater? What happens when $10M tanks get hobbled by $10,000 drones?

We have two proxy wars in progress, we haven't hit our recruitment numbers, and we focus on social issues like DEI and gender transitioning.

If we were in a war with Russia, who would supply our ammunition, 155 shells? We have no 'surge capacity'.
In fairness when you control the skies, there's not a huge need for artillery. We controlled Iraq in a month and Afghanistan in what 2 weeks? Russia is fighting an adversary with pretty much zero aerial capability so they can use these old tactics. It's kind of strange how our governments are literally pulling their hair out to try and supply an army with things our military doesn't need or hasn't needed in multi-decades.
It remains shocking that Russia has had one third of it's Black Sea Fleet destroyed or disabled by a Ukraine that has no Navy and "zero aerial capability".


They have drones, NATO weaponry, and intelligence.
That was my point. If you have drones, you have at least some level of aerial capability. Minot was using an outdated definition of aerial capability. Times are changing and drones are altering the old equations, the degree has yet to be determined but I'm guessing it will be more than we suspect as drones improve and better drone tactics are developed.
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oski003
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 10:55a, 4/23/24
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
oski003 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
MinotStateBeav said:
movielover said:
Facts and emotions are two different things. Colonel McGregor today repeats that our stockpiles are low, including 155 shells and precision-guided missiles. We have great technology, but lead times are huge. And in some cases, cheap drones are taking out multi-million-dollar missiles. Not a good trade.

We've got thousands of great tanks, but how do we get them to the theater? What happens when $10M tanks get hobbled by $10,000 drones?

We have two proxy wars in progress, we haven't hit our recruitment numbers, and we focus on social issues like DEI and gender transitioning.

If we were in a war with Russia, who would supply our ammunition, 155 shells? We have no 'surge capacity'.
In fairness when you control the skies, there's not a huge need for artillery. We controlled Iraq in a month and Afghanistan in what 2 weeks? Russia is fighting an adversary with pretty much zero aerial capability so they can use these old tactics. It's kind of strange how our governments are literally pulling their hair out to try and supply an army with things our military doesn't need or hasn't needed in multi-decades.
It remains shocking that Russia has had one third of it's Black Sea Fleet destroyed or disabled by a Ukraine that has no Navy and "zero aerial capability".


They have drones, NATO weaponry, and intelligence.
That was my point. If you have drones, you have at least some level of aerial capability. Minot was using an outdated definition of aerial capability. Times are changing and drones are altering the old equations, the degree has yet to be determined but I'm guessing it will be more than we suspect as drones improve and better drone tactics are developed.


Yes, a NATO backed Ukraine is a pesky foe for Russia. Unfortunately, it just isn't strong enough to stop the much larger and more industrial attacker.
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movielover
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In reply to oski003 • 1:09p, 4/23/24
If it was a prize fight, it would have been called 18 months ago.
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Palestinian Chicken
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In reply to movielover • 12:48a, 4/24/24
movielover said:
If it was a prize fight, it would have been called 18 months ago.




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Palestinian Chicken 1
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12:38a, 4/25/24


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MinotStateBeav
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In reply to Palestinian Chicken 1 • 5:19a, 4/25/24
Yep, same professional protestors that flooded the streets in 2020 in the BLM riots. They don't care about the cause, their goal is just to cause havok. The cause is convenient to get bodies out there so they can do things like throw bricks or light buildings on fire with cover. That's why they are violent to media, if they catch media in there filming faces they will assault them. Tbh I haven't paid much attention to these protests because they all are the same now.
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Cal88
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In reply to MinotStateBeav • 6:27a, 4/25/24
MinotStateBeav said:
Yep, same professional protestors that flooded the streets in 2020 in the BLM riots. They don't care about the cause, their goal is just to cause havok. The cause is convenient to get bodies out there so they can do things like throw bricks or light buildings on fire with cover. That's why they are violent to media, if they catch media in there filming faces they will assault them. Tbh I haven't paid much attention to these protests because they all are the same now.

This seems to be an organic, campus-based event of students who do "care about the cause" and are protesting peacefully, as opposed to going around and burning down downtown city blocks. As well many of these protests are being forcefully suppressed right now, unlike during the BLM circus.

The stuff that's being reported on astroturfed conservative sites is no better than the kind of propaganda you have on MSNBC or Fox.
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to MinotStateBeav • 7:16a, 4/25/24
MinotStateBeav said:
Yep, same professional protestors that flooded the streets in 2020 in the BLM riots. They don't care about the cause, their goal is just to cause havok. The cause is convenient to get bodies out there so they can do things like throw bricks or light buildings on fire with cover. That's why they are violent to media, if they catch media in there filming faces they will assault them. Tbh I haven't paid much attention to these protests because they all are the same now.
The BLM protests were much more meaningful in both numbers and legitimacy because they were protesting something that was happening in this country. They of course did bring out all kinds, including paid agitators and elements of mayhem (with both protesters and counter-protesters participating) which aren't present now.

The current campus protests are quite different. They don't' have much mindshare with Americans and they don't even really know or care why they are protesting.

There is very little violence in these campus protests, just mostly slacktivism and hackey sack in the quad. Lots of pointless low energy stuff like Harvard students intermittently fasting for Gaza (12 hour hunger strike LOL).

They're having fun though!


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dajo9
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7:56a, 4/25/24
The way these students are being treated is odious. Time for these campuses to have their own FSM.
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