chazzed said:

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The Curious Case of Tulsi Gabbard: Is She a Russian Asset or a Dupe?

https://www.thebulwark.com/p/tulsi-gabbard-russian-asset-or-dupe

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Neocons like that author and his mentor buddy Bill Kristol strongly disapprove of Tulsi, which is yet another solid plus for her.

https://substack.com/@jvlast/note/p-151711102

FYI I think Putin would have preferred Kamala, things have been going well for the Russians under Biden. Trump is going to push for a Minsk Plus type of settlement which the Russians are going to be weary but will be under some pressure to accept from the international community including allies like India or Brazil.

88, here's the issue. Which has more to do with your belief that an "official narrative" exists. You doubt facts because you are basing your beliefs on emotion and prejudice. Your response is akin to going down the rabbit hole further. Not by producing counterfactuals, but by calling the sources I gave you NATO propaganda and "MI6 connected". How interesting.

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I haven't replied right away because your long post is strewn with bad assumptions based on a poor understanding of the facts and an unquestioning reliance on the official narrative. You believe for example that NATO and proxies' funding for the jihadis stopped in 2017, while these groups were still active to this day, ISIS is still around within areas controlled by the US (Tanf and northeast of Syria) and Turkey (Idlib region).

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Bad assumptions? Poor understanding of facts? What I gave you IS fact. There is not one entity or organization, governmental, IGO or NGO that offers any factual evidence that the chemical attacks on Ghouta and Khan Shaykhun did not come from the Syrian government. You're relying on Postol's "analysis" and critique of the OPCW-UN Joint Investigative Mechanism. His analysis was not published as it had errors in it. What I quoted you above is a non answer. You redirect with a different topic because you have zero evidence that another actor delivered the chemical attack in either of those locations.

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Postol's qualifications dwarf those of Elliot Higgins and his Bellingcat crew, that entity is an MI6-connected agency, staffed by people who have deep state/intel background and little in terms of technical expertise. It is also funded by the main protagonists in the dirty war on Syria, US/NATO, Saudis, Qatar, UAE etc who also fund the fanatical jihadis there.

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An MI6 connected agency? That's you response? Again, this is poor redirect. Did you know that Eliot Higgins used to be a research fellow at Berkeley? Bellingcat's research is open source. Anyone can review their investigative methods. And on this point - this makes their research harder to refute because they are not bound by rules of conventional spy agencies. Foreign Policy did a piece on Bellingcat, their methods and techniques. Notably, the Sergei Skripal poisoning. Bellingcat was able to identify, by name, who the two Russian agents were that sprayed Skripal's front door handle. Foreign Policy wrote: "In the wake of the Skripal poisoning, Russia launched a major disinformation counteroffensive advancing more than 40 different conspiracy theories intended to obfuscate their involvement. Most memorably, the suspected assailants said that they were just a pair of innocent fitness instructors who had travelled from Moscow to Salisbury to see the city's cathedral."

One other tidbit from Foreign Policy: Russian state media have repeatedly sought to portray Bellingcat as working on behalf of the CIA or other Western intelligence agencies. I guess we know where you got your accusation that Higgins is connected to MI6.

MintPress? Seriously?! I mean, really?! 88, you've lost the plot. With all the absurdities that you have written here, I now know where you get it all. From MintPress. If I thought Theo Postol was bad, this "news" site is the laziest of it all. This site routinely gets stories from Russian state media. Some of its "news reporters/contributors" are fake and have been tied to the GRU (the Russian Foreign Military Intelligence Agency). It is an ally of Bashar Al-Assad and printed stories that read Saudi Arabia had supplied Syrian rebels with chemical weapons and that these rebels accidently set them off and this was the reason for the chemical attack in Ghouta. lol These stories were advanced by Russian media and the Assad regime and, according to Foreign Policy, are frequently cited by conspiracy theorists.

88, I would implore you to take some time for self-reflection and understand that the ideas and theories you're writing about here may be harmful. They have zero basis in fact and are actually a part of Russian disinformation.

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Nuland did confirm that Ukraine had a biolab research facilities. Kiev's post-Maidan coup government is very deeply dependent on NATO, if not an outright proxy regime, much like South Vietnam or the Afghan government were dependent on the US. Zelensky and others have stated they would seek nuclear weapons, have used chemical weapons on Russians and terror attacks inside Russia targeting civilians.

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I have no idea why you posted this. This is obfuscation and redirect. Poor. Zero evidence that Ukraine, Zelensky or the US have used chemical weapons in Russia, in Russian occupied Ukraine territories or civilians. You state things with no proof.

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And Russia never did interfere in US elections on the same scale of the UK's recent interference in the elections. Or on the same scale that we interfere in their elections.

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Are you that daft? British involvement in US elections has been going on for decades. British Conservatives and Labour parties have sent people over to assist with "their" candidates for decades. You do know that Nigel Farage campaigned for Trump in the US this year, right? And Liz Truss, former PM, attended the Repub Convention.

philly1121 said:

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I haven't replied right away because your long post is strewn with bad assumptions based on a poor understanding of the facts and an unquestioning reliance on the official narrative. You believe for example that NATO and proxies' funding for the jihadis stopped in 2017, while these groups were still active to this day, ISIS is still around within areas controlled by the US (Tanf and northeast of Syria) and Turkey (Idlib region).

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Bad assumptions? Poor understanding of facts? What I gave you IS fact. There is not one entity or organization, governmental, IGO or NGO that offers any factual evidence that the chemical attacks on Ghouta and Khan Shaykhun did not come from the Syrian government. You're relying on Postol's "analysis" and critique of the OPCW-UN Joint Investigative Mechanism. His analysis was not published as it had errors in it. What I quoted you above is a non answer. You redirect with a different topic because you have zero evidence that another actor delivered the chemical attack in either of those locations.

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You stated in your post above:

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However, there was never any chemical weapons or bio weapons that were given to any anti-Assad group and any attack to that effect came from the Assad regime. The weapons that were given to anti-Assad groups were rifles, mortars, RPG's and most notably, the BGM-71 TOW missile. I repeat, there were NO chemical or bio weapons given to any anti-Assad military group.

There is no agency beyond the Syrian government or Russian Defense Ministry that claims these attacks did not come from the Syrian government.

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I gave you evidence that you were wrong on both counts, the islamist jihadis in Syria did use chemical weapons, and this fact is corroborated by the OPCW, independent western agency that monitors the use of chemical weapons, here it is again:

🔴 OPCW identifies ISIL as perpetrators of 2015 chemical attack in Marea, #Syria.

KEY FINDINGS
1. Sulfur mustard attack by ISIL:
🔹 The IIT concludes that there are reasonable grounds to believe that on 1 September 2015, between 09:00 and 12:00 (UTC+3), during sustained attacks… pic.twitter.com/jNiJtDIqKm

— OPCW (@OPCW) February 22, 2024

"OPCW identifies ISIL as perpetrators of 2015 chemical attack in Marea, Syria
IIT report concludes ISIL held exclusive means, motives, and capabilities to deploy sulfur mustard in 2015 attack
22 FEBRUARY 2024"

https://www.opcw.org/media-centre/news/2024/02/opcw-identifies-isil-perpetrators-2015-chemical-attack-marea-syria

You've ignored this proof, obfuscated and diverted the topic towards the Skripals.

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I have no idea why you posted this. This is obfuscation and redirect. Poor. Zero evidence that Ukraine, Zelensky or the US have used chemical weapons in Russia, in Russian occupied Ukraine territories or civilians. You state things with no proof.

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I guess you haven't been reading the Ukraine thread, as I have posted evidence of Ukrainian use of chemical weapons on Russian soldiers in the Donbas when it took place in early 2023. Ukraine has posted videos of quad drones dropping canisters of nerve agents, here is a caption of one such videos:



The video of that incident is particularly gruesome, it shows the Russian soldier convulsing violently from the effects of the gas cloud released by the cannister before drowning into the stream. Frankly I don't recommend watching it.
(warning - graphic)

Ukranians celebrating the use of chemical weapons on Russian soldiers.

After the release of the canister the men appear to have spasms and neurological complications.

Keep in mind ,the West knows this and fully approves this.

After all the Ukrainians are the "good guys" pic.twitter.com/1HAVmwmDXO

— Richard (@ricwe123) February 10, 2023

Cal88 once doctored an article in an effort to con others here into believing that current climate change was not anthropogenic. I applaud your efforts, but he is not a serious person.

chazzed said:

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Cal88 once doctored an article in an effort to con others here into believing that current climate change was not anthropogenic. I applaud your efforts, but he is not a serious person.

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Yeah, when you can't argue, slander.

88, Donbass Devushka is a twitter account run by an ex Russian military officer that spouts Kremlin propoganda. The other one @ricwe123 is anti-NATO, Ukraine is a Nazi state propoganda. Typical source for you.

We have been talking about Ghouta and Khan Shaykhun chemical attacks this whole time and now you spring the chemical attack in Marea? Why don't you get back to what we are talking about.

And what about Mint Press? That you're pulling most of your talking points from a website that advances Russian state talking points and other conspiracy theories.

Its distressing that you are so easily taken in by disinformation and propaganda. You're citing these social media and "news sites" that are clearly fake and designed to advance a narrative favorable to Russia. A quick dive into what these sites and social media accounts are is pretty easy. Either you're lazy or just don't care. I'm done with you.

philly1121 said:

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88, Donbass Devushka is a twitter account run by an ex Russian military officer that spouts Kremlin propoganda. The other one @ricwe123 is anti-NATO, Ukraine is a Nazi state propoganda. Typical source for you.

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The video and picture capture of the drone chemical attack comes from a Ukrainian Telegram channel. It wasn't the original post from the Ukrainian soldiers who did this, but from other Ukrainians who are celebrating that attack (hence the annoying sadistic soundtrack).

The fact that these incidents are not reported in the MSM means that you have to rely on social media to understand what is going on in Ukraine. In fact western MSM has constantly gaslighted the public on this and other topics.

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And what about Mint Press? That you're pulling most of your talking points from a website that advances Russian state talking points and other conspiracy theories.

Its distressing that you are so easily taken in by disinformation and propaganda. You're citing these social media and "news sites" that are clearly fake and designed to advance a narrative favorable to Russia. A quick dive into what these sites and social media accounts are is pretty easy. Either you're lazy or just don't care. I'm done with you.

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Newsflash to Philly - governments lie, often so, especially in the runup to wars and the conduct of said wars. They rely on a heuristic and narrative of false patriotism, increasingly using recycled Cold War era jingoism.

If they lied so much about the Iraq wars (yellowcake, mobile biolabs, aluminum tubes, WMDs, "Mission Accomplished", babies being thrown out of incubators etc), what makes you think they aren't also lying about Ukraine and Syria??

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We have been talking about Ghouta and Khan Shaykhun chemical attacks this whole time and now you spring the chemical attack in Marea? Why don't you get back to what we are talking about.

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You have stated that the islamist jihadis sponsored by NATO fighting the Syrian army never used chemical weapons, and that no agency has ever corroborated that fact. I have proved you were wrong. And if ISIS/AQ/assorted moderate headchoppers did use chemical weapons in that instance, then they are very likely to have used them in others. The Ghouta event happened while the Syrian army was finishing its campaign there and the outcome was all but decided, in other words, Assad and co had every disincentive in the world to use chemical weapons.

chazzed said:

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The Curious Case of Tulsi Gabbard: Is She a Russian Asset or a Dupe?

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Tulsi Gabbard has put her life on the line to defend this country. People can disagree on issues, but it is outrageous for anyone to suggest that Tulsi is a foreign asset.

— Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) October 21, 2019

Unfortunately, you have bought disinformation under the guise of "alternative views". The MSM, as you call it, also includes FoxNews - corporate media. However, to suggest that MintPress is somehow an impartial site where you can read about world news in an impartial manner is quite disengenuous.

We were talking about two specific incidents of chemical attacks that you somehow attributed to ISIL or "Islamists". Whatever you read was unequivocally false, attributing those two chemical attacks to ISIL. There is evidence to suggest that the chem attack on Marea was from ISIL. There is zero evidence they were involved in Ghouta or Khan Shaykhun. Also, NATO does not sponsor "Islamist Jihadis". lol

Your choice of media reflects on how you argue, 88.

Umm...psst...34....that was 5 years ago. Let's see what he says about her now.

philly1121 said:

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Unfortunately, you have bought disinformation under the guise of "alternative views". The MSM, as you call it, also includes FoxNews - corporate media. However, to suggest that MintPress is somehow an impartial site where you can read about world news in an impartial manner is quite disengenuous.

We were talking about two specific incidents of chemical attacks that you somehow attributed to ISIL or "Islamists". Whatever you read was unequivocally false, attributing those two chemical attacks to ISIL. There is evidence to suggest that the chem attack on Marea was from ISIL. There is zero evidence they were involved in Ghouta or Khan Shaykhun. Also, NATO does not sponsor "Islamist Jihadis". lol

Your choice of media reflects on how you argue, 88.

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1. NATO does sponsor Islamist Jihadists when it suits NATOs goals. Nearly all the resistence (actual troops) to Assad came and comes from Islamist Jihadists. This was well known and was not controversal before 2016.
2. All of the chemical attacks are in question. It is also a well known fact, or was before about 2016, that both Assad and various Islamist groups had chemical weapons. They were made by Al Nusra (sp?) before it disbanded with the help of Saudi Arabia and Turkey. When Al Nusra fractured, including partially into what became ISIS, who exactly has those chemical weapons became a mystery. So with all the chemical attacks you have a list of suspects that includes Assad's forces and various Islamist groups.
3. The propaganda fed to the American public switched to labeling all inconvient facts about Syria "Russian propaganda" about 2016. This was all very blatant if you followed the stories at all. For instance, the White Helmets were known to overlap with many Islamist groups and suddenly that fact became "Russian propaganda".
4. Syria was always a 7-12 sided war that was incredibly hard to keep track of.

Show facts for #1.
2. Speculation. Al Nusra was suspected of having chemical weapons. Intel agencies detailed that they attempted to buy components to produce sarin. But it is not known if Al Nusra actually produced and/or deployed a chemical weapon. What is true is that al Nusra obtained TOW missles from Syrian Rebel Front.
3. And what are the inconvenient facts about Syria? The White Helmets. Now this is Russian propaganda. This "dispute" about the role, funding and purpose of this group was investigated by The Guardian and they found that controversies surrounding the Syrian Civil Defense were propogated by conspiracy theorists and Russian propaganda. I think this was also investigated by the Kennedy School of Government.

philly1121 said:

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Unfortunately, you have bought disinformation under the guise of "alternative views". The MSM, as you call it, also includes FoxNews - corporate media. However, to suggest that MintPress is somehow an impartial site where you can read about world news in an impartial manner is quite disengenuous.

We were talking about two specific incidents of chemical attacks that you somehow attributed to ISIL or "Islamists". Whatever you read was unequivocally false, attributing those two chemical attacks to ISIL. There is evidence to suggest that the chem attack on Marea was from ISIL. There is zero evidence they were involved in Ghouta or Khan Shaykhun. Also, NATO does not sponsor "Islamist Jihadis". lol

Your choice of media reflects on how you argue, 88.

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88 is owning you. You might want to quit. You don't see that our government is corrupt as hell and lies more than just about anyone else.


Back on track:

Rep. Abigail Spanberger calls Tulsi Gabbard a "conspiracy theorist" as she goes on Jen Psaki's show to push her own conspiracy theory: The completely baseless, evidence-free insinuation that Tulsi is a "Russian asset."

She says Tulsi is "dangerous," when Rep. Spanberger is the… pic.twitter.com/Y14mrP1Sec

— Charlie Kirk (@charliekirk11) November 19, 2024

Owning? lmao

Hawaii is "owned" and susceptible to the lazy sources 88 showed me. that is to say, all of his references were from sources favorable to the Kremlin. And that's ok. You're in your confirmation bias zone. What Trump tells you must be true. How could it not? Its funny how Russia's long game from the 1950's is paying off dividends now. But keep plowing ahead.

philly1121 said:

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Umm...psst...34....that was 5 years ago. Let's see what he says about her now.

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Tulsi endorsed Bernie over Hillary in the 2016 Democratic primaries. Hillary held a grudge and called Tulsi a Russian asset. All things Russian start with Hillary Clinton.

Uh she didn't call her "favorite of the Russians" until 2019. Tulsi sued but then dropped the suit. Her attorneys were *drum roll* Pierce Bainbridge Beck Price & Hecht and Davidoff Hutcher & Citron. The same guys that defended Giuliani and Papadopous. I believe the conservative Washington Examiner called Gabbard an ideological sympathizer of Xi Jinping and Putin. So she's got that going for her. AlohaBear is in tears.

Tulsi's blackballing is the current version of "you're either with us or you're with the terrorists" circa 2001 - replace "terrorists" with "Kremlin".



The irony in her case is that she is getting roasted precisely for having sided in Syria against A-Q and their assorted jihadi allies.

88 you're so in the bag for the Kremlin narrative it begs the question if you're one of those influencers who took money from Russia. Tim Pool, Benny Johnson. I wonder how far you would go, beyond this board, to tow the Russian or Al-Assad narratives? You're certainly soaking up all the usual media spaces they occupy and you're posts here are near directly the same narratives that Social Design Agency was putting out. It begs the question.

philly1121 said:

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Owning? lmao

Hawaii is "owned" and susceptible to the lazy sources 88 showed me. that is to say, all of his references were from sources favorable to the Kremlin. And that's ok. You're in your confirmation bias zone. What Trump tells you must be true. How could it not? Its funny how Russia's long game from the 1950's is paying off dividends now. But keep plowing ahead.

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It is amazing how effective Russia has been in influencing the GOP. I'm guessing the Russian operatives never expected this much success. Not even in their wildest dreams.

Its staggering in scope. How Russian intel has integrated itself into news sites, internet news sites, the NRA and social media - Reddit, Twitter and FB to name a few. Its the long game being played since the 50's.

philly1121 said:

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Its staggering in scope. How Russian intel has integrated itself into news sites, internet news sites, the NRA and social media - Reddit, Twitter and FB to name a few. Its the long game being played since the 50's.

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It's nothing compared to how Amercian intel has integrated itself into news sites, internet news sites, the NRA and social media - Reddit, Twitter and FB to name a few. It's the long game being played since the 50's.

bearister said:

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Nikki Haley calls Trump pick Tulsi Gabbard a 'Russian sympathizer'

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It pleases me that Nikki Haley will not have a job in the next Trump administration.

My heart is filled with gratitude - for God’s unconditional love, for the love and support of my family, for freedom and our great country. Happy Thanksgiving!! pic.twitter.com/6g2yNHm2iD

— Tulsi Gabbard 🌺 (@TulsiGabbard) November 28, 2024

Happy Thanksgiving.