Don't consider myself a conservative, but did vote Republican this election. My top concerns were/are, in no particular order:going4roses said:
What are your top 5 concerns/policy for America ?
Immigration
Energy
Bitcoin policy
Wokism
National debt
Conservatives: What are you most conservative about ?
2,718 Views |
73 Replies |
Last: 1 hr ago by edwinbear
Immigration
Energy
Bitcoin policy
Wokism
National debt
4/5 are understandable/valid and then from my standpoint you put a big cloud over the sensible items. With one addition.
Define "woke" your definition your understanding and when and how did you become aware of it ?
Define "woke" your definition your understanding and when and how did you become aware of it ?
Tell someone you love them and try to have a good day
Why does edwinbear need to define it? It is his issue. However he defines it for himself it was enough to contribute to his decision to vote a particular way this time.
I am extremely curious I would like to know. Now he can choose to answer or not but thats on him right.
Tell someone you love them and try to have a good day
At its most simple, I would describe it as two parts:going4roses said:
4/5 are understandable/valid and then from my standpoint you put a big cloud over the sensible items. With one addition.
Define "woke" your definition your understanding and when and how did you become aware of it ?
1. The idea that one's "feelings" about something matter more than reality, and therefore reality can be changed to what makes one feel better.
and
2. The unsolicited imposition of that reality onto others, irrespective of whether they share your reality (delusion?) or not.
To be clear, point 1 on its own I have no inherent problem with. If you want to believe that 2 + 2 = 5 and live your life "knowing" that 2 + 2 = 5, go right ahead. You have the right to do that. I also have the right to think you're an idiot if you do, but freedom goes both ways.
It's the combination with point 2 where wokeism leaves a bad taste in my mouth. You can have your own opinions and beliefs, but you can't have your own facts, and you definitely can't impose upon me your opinions as fact. When you tell me your reality is the "real" reality, that 2 + 2 = 5 and if I don't agree with you I am racist/X-phobic/cancelled/stupid/publicly shamed/fired from my job/other petty vengeful act, that is what I have a problem with and that is where I saw the pendulum swinging.
So without going into specific examples, that is how I'd describe wokeism, which in my perspective the democrats were embracing to an extreme over the past 4 - 8 years.
Also, I think this is the first time I mentioned bitcoin on this board, let alone bitcoin strategy as a national policy, and it was described as one of the "sensible items" haha. So thanks for that. Have we turned a corner? I'm hopeful.going4roses said:
4/5 are understandable/valid and then from my standpoint you put a big cloud over the sensible items. With one addition.
Define "woke" your definition your understanding and when and how did you become aware of it ?
Seriously, why is bitcoin an important issue? Whenever I look into the use of it or any other crypto-currency, it looks to me like it's just another form of legalized gambling.
I'm not against legal gambling, to be clear; people can do what they want. I just don't understand why it would be important in a political sense.
I'm not against legal gambling, to be clear; people can do what they want. I just don't understand why it would be important in a political sense.
It can be a currency, but think of it more as a capital asset. A capital asset that is absolutely scarce/finite, easily transferrable, no carrying expenses and non-sovereign (no country/central bank/etc. can manipulate its etched-in-stone monetary policy or supply issuance).sycasey said:
Seriously, why is bitcoin an important issue? Whenever I look into the use of it or any other crypto-currency, it looks to me like it's just another form of legalized gambling.
I'm not against legal gambling, to be clear; people can do what they want. I just don't understand why it would be important in a political sense.
When you think of it as a capital asset, it's no longer gambling.
For example:
Jeff Bezos is worth ~$200 billion. How much of his net worth do you think he is keeping as cash in a savings account? 1%? I highly doubt Jeff Bezos is keeping $2 billion in a savings account. It's probably far less.
So we have a $200 billion net worther who doesn't even want to keep 1% of his wealth in USD. So where does he keep it? Guys like him, they just buy homes and other properties. Probably keeps some in stock, art & collectibles, etc. as well.
He's not trading those things. He's just monetizing these assets and parking his wealth in them "forever" because he can't keep it in USD itself since it's a melting ice cube of purchasing power over time.
So when you say gambling, you are implying that bitcoin will one day be sold/traded for more dollars. But then what? What will you do with those more dollars? I would encourage you to look at bitcoin as a capital asset instead, something that you can just store wealth in "forever" like people already do with homes/stocks/etc. But its properties as a store-of-value are better than conventional stores of values.
With the US national debt at $36 trillion, it's a mathematical certainty that at some point we will have to do one of two things: Either we will default on the debt and go through a painful fiscal cleansing period, or we will print our way out of this mess and devalue the dollar even further. Which one is more politically tenable?
With a national strategic bitcoin reserve, it is like a Fort Knox for the 21st century due to bitcoin's superior properties as a store of value relative to all other conventional options (gold, property, etc.)
And it'll happen. I'm wary that people will make it a partisan issue because "Trump" when it is anything but a partisan issue, which would suck, but in my opinion it would be one of the best things the US can do right now to begin righting its economic ship.
https://www.newsweek.com/what-donald-trumps-strategic-bitcoin-reserve-could-look-like-1986360
https://www.lummis.senate.gov/press-releases/lummis-introduces-strategic-bitcoin-reserve-legislation/
edwinbear said:At its most simple, I would describe it as two parts:going4roses said:
4/5 are understandable/valid and then from my standpoint you put a big cloud over the sensible items. With one addition.
Define "woke" your definition your understanding and when and how did you become aware of it ?
1. The idea that one's "feelings" about something matter more than reality, and therefore reality can be changed to what makes one feel better.
and
2. The unsolicited imposition of that reality onto others, irrespective of whether they share your reality (delusion?) or not.
To be clear, point 1 on its own I have no inherent problem with. If you want to believe that 2 + 2 = 5 and live your life "knowing" that 2 + 2 = 5, go right ahead. You have the right to do that. I also have the right to think you're an idiot if you do, but freedom goes both ways.
It's the combination with point 2 where wokeism leaves a bad taste in my mouth. You can have your own opinions and beliefs, but you can't have your own facts, and you definitely can't impose upon me your opinions as fact. When you tell me your reality is the "real" reality, that 2 + 2 = 5 and if I don't agree with you I am racist/X-phobic/cancelled/stupid/publicly shamed/fired from my job/other petty vengeful act, that is what I have a problem with and that is where I saw the pendulum swinging.
So without going into specific examples, that is how I'd describe wokeism, which in my perspective the democrats were embracing to an extreme over the past 4 - 8 years.
Yikes ok this would be an example of the lies you have been lead to believe about the term "woke".
First , any description or explanation of "woke" by any conservative(conservative pocs are included) or non Black person (not of lineage) is 1000% incorrect. It is racist propaganda.
Conservative/Non Black = Racist propaganda by co opting/colonizing the term.
Here are two examples of the correct history of the term "term"
Do you see what happened? Do see the lies/propaganda ?
Tell someone you love them and try to have a good day
As I suspected, you weren't curious at all you were just baiting him to answer so you could tell him he was wrong.
And no, no single race owns the definition of any word. That is racism:
the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.
And no, no single race owns the definition of any word. That is racism:
the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.
Baited ??? Aww come on now just because I let him know the truth I baited him ? He is grown let him speak for himself . Hell I gave him credit for the 4/5 being plausible issues. I figured he ( unlike you ) would be interested in the truth.
Just admit it you are coddling the co opting /colonizing of a word that had 80 yrs of historical context. But of course your privilege says we can take anything be it an idea person place or thing and do with it as you feel like it and that's fine. I'm calling a spade a spade. Racim and white privilege go hand in hand see how effortlessly you proved that. Or you could stayed quiet and let him choose to answer or not. The truth will only set you free.
Just admit it you are coddling the co opting /colonizing of a word that had 80 yrs of historical context. But of course your privilege says we can take anything be it an idea person place or thing and do with it as you feel like it and that's fine. I'm calling a spade a spade. Racim and white privilege go hand in hand see how effortlessly you proved that. Or you could stayed quiet and let him choose to answer or not. The truth will only set you free.
Tell someone you love them and try to have a good day
Not sure why I wasted my time to answer your question in good faith when all you really wanted to do was call me racist and yell "gotcha". Whether you believe the behavior I described is called wokeism or something else, are you going to address it, or give me another etymology lesson? I'm completely open to calling it something else if you prefer. Mental illness? Reality denial?going4roses said:edwinbear said:At its most simple, I would describe it as two parts:going4roses said:
4/5 are understandable/valid and then from my standpoint you put a big cloud over the sensible items. With one addition.
Define "woke" your definition your understanding and when and how did you become aware of it ?
1. The idea that one's "feelings" about something matter more than reality, and therefore reality can be changed to what makes one feel better.
and
2. The unsolicited imposition of that reality onto others, irrespective of whether they share your reality (delusion?) or not.
To be clear, point 1 on its own I have no inherent problem with. If you want to believe that 2 + 2 = 5 and live your life "knowing" that 2 + 2 = 5, go right ahead. You have the right to do that. I also have the right to think you're an idiot if you do, but freedom goes both ways.
It's the combination with point 2 where wokeism leaves a bad taste in my mouth. You can have your own opinions and beliefs, but you can't have your own facts, and you definitely can't impose upon me your opinions as fact. When you tell me your reality is the "real" reality, that 2 + 2 = 5 and if I don't agree with you I am racist/X-phobic/cancelled/stupid/publicly shamed/fired from my job/other petty vengeful act, that is what I have a problem with and that is where I saw the pendulum swinging.
So without going into specific examples, that is how I'd describe wokeism, which in my perspective the democrats were embracing to an extreme over the past 4 - 8 years.
Yikes ok this would be an example of the lies you have been lead to believe about the term "woke".
First , any description or explanation of "woke" by any conservative(conservative pocs are included) or non Black person (not of lineage) is 1000% incorrect. It is racist propaganda.
Conservative/Non Black = Racist propaganda by co opting/colonizing the term.
Here are two examples of the correct history of the term "term"
Do you see what happened? Do see the lies/propaganda ?
I would love to have coffee with you. I'm 65 and just now thinking about a lot of 'obvious' things presented to us our entire lives only to discover that they are profoundly complicated and full of horrible assumptions. Money is at the forefront. I understand it like I understand the electrical elements in my house...just good enough to do minor repairs and additions and just poor enough to electrocute myself.
From the Oxford English Dictionary:going4roses said:
Baited ??? Aww come on now just because I let him know the truth I baited him ? He is grown let him speak for himself . Hell I gave him credit for the 4/5 being plausible issues. I figured he ( unlike you ) would be interested in the truth.
Just admit it you are coddling the co opting /colonizing of a word that had 80 yrs of historical context. But of course your privilege says we can take anything be it an idea person place or thing and do with it as you feel like it and that's fine. I'm calling a spade a spade. Racim and white privilege go hand in hand see how effortlessly you proved that. Or you could stayed quiet and let him choose to answer or not. The truth will only set you free.
Old English
Woke, in wake, v.
With up.
1891-
woke, adj.2
Figurative and in figurative contexts. Originally: in a state of awareness or vigilance; spec. well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to…In more recent use sometimes derogatory, esp. as a means of characterizing such alertness (or the political and social views stereotypically associated with it) as doctrinaire, self-righteous or pernicious.
=======
Wait, what is this they say, the word existed before Lead Belly uttered it? Damn African Americans appropriating White culture, stealing a word that had hundreds of years "ownership" by white Britains. Ya'll don't understand history. Trying to steal stuff. You don't know history and are enabling the co-opting of white British culture. Blah, blah, blah.
Do you see how stupid that is?
==========
From Wiki:
The phrase stay woke was uttered in recordings from the mid-20th century by Lead Belly and, post-millennium, by Erykah Badu.
***
Erykah Badu's song "Master Teacher" popularized the expression stay woke in the meaning of to continue to be "self-aware, questioning the dominant paradigm and striving for something better."[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erykah_Badu#cite_note-158][158][/url] (emphasis added)
======
But wait (again)...an African American changed the meaning of the word??? She didn't follow the exact meaning from Lead Belly?
The point: the meaning of virtually every word evolves and is used differently over time. The group that originates the new meaning of the word does not a) control the meaning of the word in perpetuity; b) its use; and c) does not own the word. To wit: the modern usage of "Woke" isn't stealing from African Americans and Lead Belly anymore than Lead Belly stole from white Brits.
Guns.
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
Kamala owns a gun....to protect herself from Doug Emhoff?DiabloWags said:
Guns.
sycasey said:
Seriously, why is bitcoin an important issue? Whenever I look into the use of it or any other crypto-currency, it looks to me like it's just another form of legalized gambling.
I'm not against legal gambling, to be clear; people can do what they want. I just don't understand why it would be important in a political sense.
Anything related to money and property is political so bitcoin is political, see the history of gold. Bitcoin may eventually surpass gold's market cap when nation states start FOMO-ing and can help pay off the national debt. There are use cases for other cryptocurrencies but a lot of it is gambling like you said.
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
Basic Mathematics
— The ₿itcoin Therapist (@TheBTCTherapist) January 8, 2022
Your money
$ USD = ——————
♾
Your money#BTC = ——————
21,000,000
Share this with the masses
So Black people being aware of white supremacy and how it works is bad ?
I actually wasn't calling you a racist per se but using racist propaganda is …
Those that stole (colonized) re purposed the cultural colloquialism are Pro white /Anti Black.
I was simply passing along information each one teach one
I actually wasn't calling you a racist per se but using racist propaganda is …
Those that stole (colonized) re purposed the cultural colloquialism are Pro white /Anti Black.
I was simply passing along information each one teach one
Tell someone you love them and try to have a good day
What exactly prevents someone from just making more bitcoin?bear2034 said:sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
I am not conservative but I own a home in a conservative area represented by Republicans and I receive all the campaign literature.
The issues Republicans care about are:
Money: Less taxes and regulation is really just about having more money (see freedom)
Freedom: Really just means more guns because they distrust the federal government. It doesn't mean more actual freedom (see abortion). They also want the ability to screw over other people and the environment as much as possible without being called on it because… money
Crime : Non-specific boogeyman which caters to fears about minorities including transgenders who will rape our children in bathrooms. This is shorthand for bigotry.
Border: Sometimes also falls under crime but also less taxes because "those people" consume our precious tax dollars. Also bigotry. Need someone to blame for their crappy situation.
Abortion: Only a small percentage of religious nutjobs. Sometimes this is couched as freedom (states rights).
All of these boil down to wanting to preserve their place in society (whatever it may be) by pushing other people down and having as much money as possible. They are very simple people motivated by greed and afraid of any change that may not directly benefit them.
sycasey said:What exactly prevents someone from just making more bitcoin?bear2034 said:sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
The laws of physics, which is why bitcoin is the only credibly finite/scarce thing in the world. And NOTHING prevents the US government from making more dollars, which is the real problem, because historically governments only ever abuse this privilege.
edwinbear said:sycasey said:What exactly prevents someone from just making more bitcoin?bear2034 said:sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
The laws of physics, which is why bitcoin is the only credibly finite/scarce thing in the world. And NOTHING prevents the US government from making more dollars, which is the real problem, because historically governments only ever abuse this privilege.
There is nothing scarce about cryptocurrency.
Bitcoin hard to come by? How about etherium? Don't like either of those two? Create a new one! Or buy a NFT!
dimitrig said:edwinbear said:sycasey said:What exactly prevents someone from just making more bitcoin?bear2034 said:sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
The laws of physics, which is why bitcoin is the only credibly finite/scarce thing in the world. And NOTHING prevents the US government from making more dollars, which is the real problem, because historically governments only ever abuse this privilege.
There is nothing scarce about cryptocurrency.
Bitcoin hard to come by? How about etherium? Don't like either of those two? Create a new one! Or buy a NFT!
We are only talking about Bitcoin. Why are you bringing up other cryptocurrency that is not part of this discussion?
Bitcoin is finite.
Bitcoin is not "crypto". I fully agree that "crypto" for the most part are scams. Bitcoin is different. Nobody highly educated about bitcoin thinks what you said.dimitrig said:edwinbear said:sycasey said:What exactly prevents someone from just making more bitcoin?bear2034 said:sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
The laws of physics, which is why bitcoin is the only credibly finite/scarce thing in the world. And NOTHING prevents the US government from making more dollars, which is the real problem, because historically governments only ever abuse this privilege.
There is nothing scarce about cryptocurrency.
Bitcoin hard to come by? How about etherium? Don't like either of those two? Create a new one! Or buy a NFT!
edwinbear said:Bitcoin is not "crypto". I fully agree that "crypto" for the most part are scams. Bitcoin is different. Nobody highly educated about bitcoin thinks what you said.dimitrig said:edwinbear said:sycasey said:What exactly prevents someone from just making more bitcoin?bear2034 said:sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
The laws of physics, which is why bitcoin is the only credibly finite/scarce thing in the world. And NOTHING prevents the US government from making more dollars, which is the real problem, because historically governments only ever abuse this privilege.
There is nothing scarce about cryptocurrency.
Bitcoin hard to come by? How about etherium? Don't like either of those two? Create a new one! Or buy a NFT!
Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency like every other one. It has no intrinsic value. Anyone who thinks differently has just consumed the Kool Aid.
Alright. I guess all these nation states, public companies, asset managers and other high net wortheres acquiring bitcoin are just idiots. YOU are the smart one. You know better.dimitrig said:edwinbear said:Bitcoin is not "crypto". I fully agree that "crypto" for the most part are scams. Bitcoin is different. Nobody highly educated about bitcoin thinks what you said.dimitrig said:edwinbear said:sycasey said:What exactly prevents someone from just making more bitcoin?bear2034 said:sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
The laws of physics, which is why bitcoin is the only credibly finite/scarce thing in the world. And NOTHING prevents the US government from making more dollars, which is the real problem, because historically governments only ever abuse this privilege.
There is nothing scarce about cryptocurrency.
Bitcoin hard to come by? How about etherium? Don't like either of those two? Create a new one! Or buy a NFT!
Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency like every other one. It has no intrinsic value. Anyone who thinks differently has just consumed the Kool Aid.
dimitrig said:edwinbear said:Bitcoin is not "crypto". I fully agree that "crypto" for the most part are scams. Bitcoin is different. Nobody highly educated about bitcoin thinks what you said.dimitrig said:edwinbear said:sycasey said:What exactly prevents someone from just making more bitcoin?bear2034 said:sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
The laws of physics, which is why bitcoin is the only credibly finite/scarce thing in the world. And NOTHING prevents the US government from making more dollars, which is the real problem, because historically governments only ever abuse this privilege.
There is nothing scarce about cryptocurrency.
Bitcoin hard to come by? How about etherium? Don't like either of those two? Create a new one! Or buy a NFT!
Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency like every other one. It has no intrinsic value. Anyone who thinks differently has just consumed the Kool Aid.
It definitely does have a value, as a product and asset that you can store, access from anywhere and transfer to others independently. That kind of functionality, along with the safeguards associated with it, have contributed to its success.
Cal88 said:dimitrig said:edwinbear said:Bitcoin is not "crypto". I fully agree that "crypto" for the most part are scams. Bitcoin is different. Nobody highly educated about bitcoin thinks what you said.dimitrig said:edwinbear said:sycasey said:What exactly prevents someone from just making more bitcoin?bear2034 said:sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
The laws of physics, which is why bitcoin is the only credibly finite/scarce thing in the world. And NOTHING prevents the US government from making more dollars, which is the real problem, because historically governments only ever abuse this privilege.
There is nothing scarce about cryptocurrency.
Bitcoin hard to come by? How about etherium? Don't like either of those two? Create a new one! Or buy a NFT!
Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency like every other one. It has no intrinsic value. Anyone who thinks differently has just consumed the Kool Aid.
It definitely does have a value, as a product and asset that you can store, access from anywhere and transfer to others independently. That kind of functionality, along with the safeguards associated with it, have contributed to its success.
It has a value because people have agreed that it does.
That might be enough but this talk about scarcity contributing to its value is silly.
edwinbear said:sycasey said:What exactly prevents someone from just making more bitcoin?bear2034 said:sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
The laws of physics, which is why bitcoin is the only credibly finite/scarce thing in the world. And NOTHING prevents the US government from making more dollars, which is the real problem, because historically governments only ever abuse this privilege.
How do "laws of physics" apply to a purely conceptual thing? You can't literally hold a bitcoin in your hand, can you?
I'm not being facetious here. I literally do not understand how this works and how there is any actual control on bitcoin's scarcity.
edwinbear said:Bitcoin is not "crypto". I fully agree that "crypto" for the most part are scams. Bitcoin is different. Nobody highly educated about bitcoin thinks what you said.dimitrig said:edwinbear said:sycasey said:What exactly prevents someone from just making more bitcoin?bear2034 said:sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
The laws of physics, which is why bitcoin is the only credibly finite/scarce thing in the world. And NOTHING prevents the US government from making more dollars, which is the real problem, because historically governments only ever abuse this privilege.
There is nothing scarce about cryptocurrency.
Bitcoin hard to come by? How about etherium? Don't like either of those two? Create a new one! Or buy a NFT!
It looks to me like bitcoin itself says that it is crypto.
https://bitcoin.org/en/how-it-works
Quote:
"The block chain is a shared public ledger on which the entire Bitcoin network relies. All confirmed transactions are included in the block chain. It allows Bitcoin wallets to calculate their spendable balance so that new transactions can be verified thereby ensuring they're actually owned by the spender. The integrity and the chronological order of the block chain are enforced with cryptography."
dimitrig said:Cal88 said:dimitrig said:edwinbear said:Bitcoin is not "crypto". I fully agree that "crypto" for the most part are scams. Bitcoin is different. Nobody highly educated about bitcoin thinks what you said.dimitrig said:edwinbear said:sycasey said:What exactly prevents someone from just making more bitcoin?bear2034 said:sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
The laws of physics, which is why bitcoin is the only credibly finite/scarce thing in the world. And NOTHING prevents the US government from making more dollars, which is the real problem, because historically governments only ever abuse this privilege.
There is nothing scarce about cryptocurrency.
Bitcoin hard to come by? How about etherium? Don't like either of those two? Create a new one! Or buy a NFT!
Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency like every other one. It has no intrinsic value. Anyone who thinks differently has just consumed the Kool Aid.
It definitely does have a value, as a product and asset that you can store, access from anywhere and transfer to others independently. That kind of functionality, along with the safeguards associated with it, have contributed to its success.
It has a value because people have agreed that it does.
That might be enough but this talk about scarcity contributing to its value is silly.
The rate of production of new bitcoins, done through servers executing series of mathematical operations, is smaller than the demand for bitcoins. As computer processing power increases, the hashing algorithms used in the bitcoin mining process is adjusted, so that the direct costs of producing bitcoins is slightly smaller than their market value.
That is not the case for most currencies today, with money supply and national debts outpacing additional demand from economic growth. As well the total amount of bitcoins that will be produced is set at 21 million. In this sense, bitcoin can be viewed as a hedge against inflation, just like gold.
Cal88 said:dimitrig said:Cal88 said:dimitrig said:edwinbear said:Bitcoin is not "crypto". I fully agree that "crypto" for the most part are scams. Bitcoin is different. Nobody highly educated about bitcoin thinks what you said.dimitrig said:edwinbear said:sycasey said:What exactly prevents someone from just making more bitcoin?bear2034 said:sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
The laws of physics, which is why bitcoin is the only credibly finite/scarce thing in the world. And NOTHING prevents the US government from making more dollars, which is the real problem, because historically governments only ever abuse this privilege.
There is nothing scarce about cryptocurrency.
Bitcoin hard to come by? How about etherium? Don't like either of those two? Create a new one! Or buy a NFT!
Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency like every other one. It has no intrinsic value. Anyone who thinks differently has just consumed the Kool Aid.
It definitely does have a value, as a product and asset that you can store, access from anywhere and transfer to others independently. That kind of functionality, along with the safeguards associated with it, have contributed to its success.
It has a value because people have agreed that it does.
That might be enough but this talk about scarcity contributing to its value is silly.
The rate of production of new bitcoins, done through servers executing series of mathematical operations, is smaller than the demand for bitcoins. That is not the case for most currencies today, with money supply and national debts outpacing additional demand from economic growth. As well the total amount of bitcoins that will be produced is set at 21 million. In this sense bitcoin can be viewed as a hedge against inflation, just like gold.
If bitcoin gets too expensive because the money supply doesn't increase we can all just agree on some new arbitrary crypto currency as a standard.
It's an inflation hedge as long as people agree it has value but it has no intrinsic value like land and it could all disappear really quickly if people stop trusting it.
The question I would ask is… with no one regulating it or backing it why would you trust it? A US dollar (paper) also has no intrinsic value but the US government provides its assurance that a one dollar bill will always have value. The value may rise or fall over time but it likely will never fall to (or close to) zero. There are no such assurances for bitcoin which make it really risky.
If people turn on it then all the value can disappear overnight.
dimitrig said:Cal88 said:dimitrig said:Cal88 said:dimitrig said:edwinbear said:Bitcoin is not "crypto". I fully agree that "crypto" for the most part are scams. Bitcoin is different. Nobody highly educated about bitcoin thinks what you said.dimitrig said:edwinbear said:sycasey said:What exactly prevents someone from just making more bitcoin?bear2034 said:sycasey said:
I guess my hesitation about bitcoin is: what's behind it? If you hold stock in a company, there is something behind that, a business that does things. If it's currency, there's a country behind that. Gold is an actual physical thing. What backs bitcoin?
Bitcoin is digital but it takes a tremendous amount of energy (and time) to mine it just like gold. Mining bitcoin involves solving math problems that take large amounts of computing power. The supply of bitcoin is also finite (21 million coins) unlike gold where you can always mine for more and unlike fiat currency where governments can always print more. What drives bitcoin's price is demand for the asset as the global money supply increases and purchasing power decreases.
The laws of physics, which is why bitcoin is the only credibly finite/scarce thing in the world. And NOTHING prevents the US government from making more dollars, which is the real problem, because historically governments only ever abuse this privilege.
There is nothing scarce about cryptocurrency.
Bitcoin hard to come by? How about etherium? Don't like either of those two? Create a new one! Or buy a NFT!
Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency like every other one. It has no intrinsic value. Anyone who thinks differently has just consumed the Kool Aid.
It definitely does have a value, as a product and asset that you can store, access from anywhere and transfer to others independently. That kind of functionality, along with the safeguards associated with it, have contributed to its success.
It has a value because people have agreed that it does.
That might be enough but this talk about scarcity contributing to its value is silly.
The rate of production of new bitcoins, done through servers executing series of mathematical operations, is smaller than the demand for bitcoins. That is not the case for most currencies today, with money supply and national debts outpacing additional demand from economic growth. As well the total amount of bitcoins that will be produced is set at 21 million. In this sense bitcoin can be viewed as a hedge against inflation, just like gold.
If bitcoin gets too expensive because the money supply doesn't increase we can all just agree on some new arbitrary crypto currency as a standard.
It's an inflation hedge as long as people agree it has value but it has no intrinsic value like land and it could all disappear really quickly if people stop trusting it.
The question I would ask is… with no one regulating it or backing it why would you trust it? A US dollar (paper) also has no intrinsic value but the US government provides its assurance that a one dollar bill will always have value. The value may rise or fall over time but it likely will never fall to (or close to) zero. There are no such assurances for bitcoin which make it really risky.
If people turn on it then all the value can disappear overnight.
At this point, bitcoin has proven to be more trustworthy than the Fed, Treasury or the government of the United States and its $36 trillion debt.
I agree that it is still a somewhat speculative investment, but once again bitcoin does have intrinsic value as a product and a service. The other aspect in its favor is that although it is a mature brand, it is still in its growth stage as far as market adoption, as this thread shows.
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