MinotStateBeav said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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Judicial System of ChinaMinotStateBeav said:

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Cal88 said:

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🇺🇸🇨🇳 John Mearsheimer warned the Chinese back in the 1990s:
If you grow economically, the U.S. will come after you. Fiercely. Ruthlessly.

Today, Trump is pushing 145% tariffs to cripple China’s economy.
Let’s be clear: This was never about “fair trade” or “democracy.”
It’s a… pic.twitter.com/XSMSVtpx93

— 𝘊𝘰𝘳𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘦 (@OopsGuess) April 14, 2025

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China doesn't do fair trade.
China has no court system to redress problems.
China steals IP.
China doesn't allow foreign businesses to have sole ownership wtithin China (Globalism for thee but not for me)

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_system_of_China

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China's Justice Minister is named He Rong....

https://www.chinadailyhk.com/hk/article/317203

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I see it didn't take you long to do a 180 and admit China has a legal system.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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Judicial System of ChinaMinotStateBeav said:

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Cal88 said:

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🇺🇸🇨🇳 John Mearsheimer warned the Chinese back in the 1990s:
If you grow economically, the U.S. will come after you. Fiercely. Ruthlessly.

Today, Trump is pushing 145% tariffs to cripple China’s economy.
Let’s be clear: This was never about “fair trade” or “democracy.”
It’s a… pic.twitter.com/XSMSVtpx93

— 𝘊𝘰𝘳𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘦 (@OopsGuess) April 14, 2025

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China doesn't do fair trade.
China has no court system to redress problems.
China steals IP.
China doesn't allow foreign businesses to have sole ownership wtithin China (Globalism for thee but not for me)

---

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_system_of_China

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China's Justice Minister is named He Rong....

https://www.chinadailyhk.com/hk/article/317203

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I see it didn't take you long to do a 180 and admit China has a legal system.

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Yes a legal system that rules in favor of the government. We call that a sham court.

Anarchistbear said:

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China's secret weapon in the trade war is an army of factory robots, powered by artificial intelligence, that have revolutionized manufacturing.

Factories are being automated across China at a breakneck pace. With engineers and electricians tending to fleets of robots, these operations are bringing down the cost of manufacturing while improving quality.

As a result, China's factories will be able to keep the price of many of its exports lower, giving it an advantage in fighting the trade war and President Trump's high tariffs. China is also facing new trade barriers by the European Union and developing countries ranging from Brazil and India to Turkey and Thailand.

Factories are now more automated in China than in the United States, Germany or Japan. China has more factory robots for every 10,000 manufacturing workers than any other country except South Korea or Singapore, according to the International Federation of Robotics.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/23/business/china-tariffs-robots-automation.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

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China is still using child labor in their manufacturing plants. In fact it's so bad what they're doing is temporarily arresting the parents in the countryside, separating the children, and the parents never see their kids again. Hey even Ukraine made the list. The worst child labor practice in the world is China using children to make bricks.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods

MinotStateBeav said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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China's secret weapon in the trade war is an army of factory robots, powered by artificial intelligence, that have revolutionized manufacturing.

Factories are being automated across China at a breakneck pace. With engineers and electricians tending to fleets of robots, these operations are bringing down the cost of manufacturing while improving quality.

As a result, China's factories will be able to keep the price of many of its exports lower, giving it an advantage in fighting the trade war and President Trump's high tariffs. China is also facing new trade barriers by the European Union and developing countries ranging from Brazil and India to Turkey and Thailand.

Factories are now more automated in China than in the United States, Germany or Japan. China has more factory robots for every 10,000 manufacturing workers than any other country except South Korea or Singapore, according to the International Federation of Robotics.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/23/business/china-tariffs-robots-automation.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

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China is still using child labor in their manufacturing plants. In fact it's so bad what they're doing is temporarily arresting the parents in the countryside, separating the children, and the parents never see their kids again. Hey even Ukraine made the list. The worst child labor practice in the world is China using children to make bricks.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods

---

Your source above, on cotton harvesting in Xinjiang:

Quote:

---

China
[url=https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods?combine=&field_exp_exploitation_type_target_id_1=All&field_exp_good_target_id=All&items_per_page=10&order=name&sort=asc&tid=All&page=13#][/url]Cotton

There are reports that children are forced to pick cotton in China. Reports from an NGO and the U.S. Government indicate that children in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region and in Gansu province are mobilized through schools and required by provincial regulations to work during the autumn harvest. According to the most recently available estimates, between 40,000 and 1 million students are mobilized annually for the harvest, beginning as early as the third grade. Most children are paid little if at all, after deductions for meals, transportation, and payments to the school. These students are required to pick daily quotas of cotton or pay fines, and performance in the cotton harvest is assessed for the students' promotion to higher grade levels.

---

Reality:

Take a close look at cotton picking in #Xinjiang. Local agriculture department: In 2020, 69.83% of Xinjiang cotton was harvested by machines. The number was up to 95% in northern Xinjiang. The mechanization in southern Xinjiang has increased steadily. Forced labor? pic.twitter.com/w3HwpxkOYa

— Hua Chunying 华春莹 (@SpokespersonCHN) March 25, 2021

Also -

Exclusive photos from #ForcedLabor in #Xinjiang. Inmates of a re-education camp are picking cotton and doing other field work. #Thread pic.twitter.com/5a3D03oB4Q

— The Compliant Golden-Hooped Rod Swinger (@abovetheclouds) September 15, 2020

So-called "forced labor" in China's Xinjiang, is all bogus, which is aimed at undermining the Chinese economy and destabilizing the country. pic.twitter.com/2RMAln8MYD

— Lijian Zhao 赵立坚 (@zlj517) July 22, 2022

Cal88 said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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China's secret weapon in the trade war is an army of factory robots, powered by artificial intelligence, that have revolutionized manufacturing.

Factories are being automated across China at a breakneck pace. With engineers and electricians tending to fleets of robots, these operations are bringing down the cost of manufacturing while improving quality.

As a result, China's factories will be able to keep the price of many of its exports lower, giving it an advantage in fighting the trade war and President Trump's high tariffs. China is also facing new trade barriers by the European Union and developing countries ranging from Brazil and India to Turkey and Thailand.

Factories are now more automated in China than in the United States, Germany or Japan. China has more factory robots for every 10,000 manufacturing workers than any other country except South Korea or Singapore, according to the International Federation of Robotics.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/23/business/china-tariffs-robots-automation.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

---

China is still using child labor in their manufacturing plants. In fact it's so bad what they're doing is temporarily arresting the parents in the countryside, separating the children, and the parents never see their kids again. Hey even Ukraine made the list. The worst child labor practice in the world is China using children to make bricks.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods

---

Your source above, on cotton harvesting in Xinjiang:

Quote:

---

China
[url=https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods?combine=&field_exp_exploitation_type_target_id_1=All&field_exp_good_target_id=All&items_per_page=10&order=name&sort=asc&tid=All&page=13#][/url]Cotton

There are reports that children are forced to pick cotton in China. Reports from an NGO and the U.S. Government indicate that children in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region and in Gansu province are mobilized through schools and required by provincial regulations to work during the autumn harvest. According to the most recently available estimates, between 40,000 and 1 million students are mobilized annually for the harvest, beginning as early as the third grade. Most children are paid little if at all, after deductions for meals, transportation, and payments to the school. These students are required to pick daily quotas of cotton or pay fines, and performance in the cotton harvest is assessed for the students' promotion to higher grade levels.

---

Reality:

Take a close look at cotton picking in #Xinjiang. Local agriculture department: In 2020, 69.83% of Xinjiang cotton was harvested by machines. The number was up to 95% in northern Xinjiang. The mechanization in southern Xinjiang has increased steadily. Forced labor? pic.twitter.com/w3HwpxkOYa

— Hua Chunying 华春莹 (@SpokespersonCHN) March 25, 2021

Also -

Exclusive photos from #ForcedLabor in #Xinjiang. Inmates of a re-education camp are picking cotton and doing other field work. #Thread pic.twitter.com/5a3D03oB4Q

— The Compliant Golden-Hooped Rod Swinger (@abovetheclouds) September 15, 2020

So-called "forced labor" in China's Xinjiang, is all bogus, which is aimed at undermining the Chinese economy and destabilizing the country. pic.twitter.com/2RMAln8MYD

— Lijian Zhao 赵立坚 (@zlj517) July 22, 2022

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What does Xi Jinping say?

4D chess?

Reporter: “[China is] saying it's fake news that trade talks are happening.”

Trump: “Well, they had a meeting this morning.”

Reporter: “Who's they?”

Trump: “I can't tell you. It doesn't matter who they is.” pic.twitter.com/lwXsm06gUl

— The Bulwark (@BulwarkOnline) April 24, 2025

chazzed said:

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4D chess?

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Checkers. They just walk up to businesses and start taking pictures.

In Missouri, Pittsburgh Corning Corporation operated a low-profile factory making a proprietary insulation material called Foamglas. But when two mysterious visitors from overseas showed up uninvited, what seemed like a minor trespassing incident escalated into a major FBI counterintelligence case.

MinotStateBeav said:

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Cal88 said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Anarchistbear said:

---

China's secret weapon in the trade war is an army of factory robots, powered by artificial intelligence, that have revolutionized manufacturing.

Factories are being automated across China at a breakneck pace. With engineers and electricians tending to fleets of robots, these operations are bringing down the cost of manufacturing while improving quality.

As a result, China's factories will be able to keep the price of many of its exports lower, giving it an advantage in fighting the trade war and President Trump's high tariffs. China is also facing new trade barriers by the European Union and developing countries ranging from Brazil and India to Turkey and Thailand.

Factories are now more automated in China than in the United States, Germany or Japan. China has more factory robots for every 10,000 manufacturing workers than any other country except South Korea or Singapore, according to the International Federation of Robotics.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/23/business/china-tariffs-robots-automation.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

---

China is still using child labor in their manufacturing plants. In fact it's so bad what they're doing is temporarily arresting the parents in the countryside, separating the children, and the parents never see their kids again. Hey even Ukraine made the list. The worst child labor practice in the world is China using children to make bricks.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods

---

Your source above, on cotton harvesting in Xinjiang:

Quote:

---

China
[url=https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods?combine=&field_exp_exploitation_type_target_id_1=All&field_exp_good_target_id=All&items_per_page=10&order=name&sort=asc&tid=All&page=13#][/url]Cotton

There are reports that children are forced to pick cotton in China. Reports from an NGO and the U.S. Government indicate that children in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region and in Gansu province are mobilized through schools and required by provincial regulations to work during the autumn harvest. According to the most recently available estimates, between 40,000 and 1 million students are mobilized annually for the harvest, beginning as early as the third grade. Most children are paid little if at all, after deductions for meals, transportation, and payments to the school. These students are required to pick daily quotas of cotton or pay fines, and performance in the cotton harvest is assessed for the students' promotion to higher grade levels.

---

Reality:

Take a close look at cotton picking in #Xinjiang. Local agriculture department: In 2020, 69.83% of Xinjiang cotton was harvested by machines. The number was up to 95% in northern Xinjiang. The mechanization in southern Xinjiang has increased steadily. Forced labor? pic.twitter.com/w3HwpxkOYa

— Hua Chunying 华春莹 (@SpokespersonCHN) March 25, 2021

Also -

Exclusive photos from #ForcedLabor in #Xinjiang. Inmates of a re-education camp are picking cotton and doing other field work. #Thread pic.twitter.com/5a3D03oB4Q

— The Compliant Golden-Hooped Rod Swinger (@abovetheclouds) September 15, 2020

So-called "forced labor" in China's Xinjiang, is all bogus, which is aimed at undermining the Chinese economy and destabilizing the country. pic.twitter.com/2RMAln8MYD

— Lijian Zhao 赵立坚 (@zlj517) July 22, 2022

---

What does Xi Jinping say?

---

I don't know what he does say, and neither do these two guys who have been getting paid for producing anti-China propaganda.

Not only do Winston Struzel aka "SerpentZA" and his sidekick have zero credentials as former middle school English teachers in China, but they are consistently lying out of their teeth about China, for example in one recent episode where they claimed that theft is rampant in China, a country where most coffeehouse patrons leave their possessions on their table when they go to the restroom, where people leave the ignition keys on their parked scooters all day and where packages including electronics are delivered outside building entrances where anyone can pick them up. That kind of high-trust behavior would be completely inconceivable in any western industrialized country.

"SerpentZA"s content is 100% anti-China, and it's often blatantly racist, like in that segment above where the two guys express their disgust at something as mundane as Cantonese soup - the subtext here is pretty clear and blatant, Chinese culture is repulsive, that's their messaging, 24/7.

This being said, child labor is a problem in China, but a lot less so than in all of its neighbors, and a lot less so than it used to be, as China is increasingly outsourcing its lower-end manufacturing on one hand, and mechanizing its production on the other. In Xinjiang for example almost all the cotton harvesting today is done mechanically.

The child labor issue in China is mostly down to the mom and pop culture there, parents who run a small business expect their children to start working very early, though usually in addition to their schooling. You have that same culture in the US among the farming community, where kids operate tractors and other machinery at a young age, especially in Summer.

https://www.aft.org/community/child-labor-united-states

Quote:

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Child Labor in the United States

Estimates by the Association of Farmworker Opportunity programs, based on figures gathered by the Department of Labor, suggest that there are approximately 500,000 child farmworkers in the United States. Many of these children start working as young as age 8, and 72-hour work weeks (more than 10 hours per day) are not uncommon.

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Yeah they tend to be 100% anti-China when China tries to have them arrested and they barely escape the country via Hong Kong before it has been completely taken over by the CCP. However they lived in China for many years, I watched their content for years, don't believe me? Go look at their older videos. Their entire channel was originally about travelling China on their motorcycles, talking with Chinese people (very pro-china Channel called ADVChina). It was China's own government that turned them anti-China. They're both married to Chinese nationals and both their spouses were in their videos from time to time until China started threatening them too.

MinotStateBeav said:

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Yeah they tend to be 100% anti-China when China tries to have them arrested and they barely escape the country via Hong Kong before it has been completely taken over by the CCP. However they lived in China for many years, I watched their content for years, don't believe me? Go look at their older videos. Their entire channel was originally about travelling China on their motorcycles, talking with Chinese people (very pro-china Channel called ADVChina). It was China's own government that turned them anti-China. They're both married to Chinese nationals and both their spouses were in their videos from time to time until China started threatening them too.

---

I have followed these guys as well for a long time and know for a fact that they lie about very basic aspects of life in China, like for instance the notion that theft is rampant when most people leave their belongings in cafes when they go to the restroom, and packages including high end electronics are left out in apartment entrance hallways for residents to pick up. Totally inconceivable in any western nation.

These guys have lived in China for over a decade, if they had an ounce of honesty they would have at the very least mentioned how many things were improving in China, like wages, infrastructure, pollution etc, especially the guy from New York, given how poor and run down things are in his corner of the country.

I know a fair amount of Chinese people, all of them have good things to say about their government and its performance running their country and overseeing the astonishing economic and industrial growth. The CCP has of course been far more repressive in decades past, when relations with China were fairly good and China was piss poor, but now that China is an economic giant, the relations have soured, and the media coverage darkened considerably...

This is the 21st century version of the VW van.

Cal88 said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Yeah they tend to be 100% anti-China when China tries to have them arrested and they barely escape the country via Hong Kong before it has been completely taken over by the CCP. However they lived in China for many years, I watched their content for years, don't believe me? Go look at their older videos. Their entire channel was originally about travelling China on their motorcycles, talking with Chinese people (very pro-china Channel called ADVChina). It was China's own government that turned them anti-China. They're both married to Chinese nationals and both their spouses were in their videos from time to time until China started threatening them too.

---

I have followed these guys as well for a long time and know for a fact that they lie about very basic aspects of life in China, like for instance the notion that theft is rampant when most people leave their belongings in cafes when they go to the restroom, and packages including high end electronics are left out in apartment entrance hallways for residents to pick up. Totally inconceivable in any western nation.

These guys have lived in China for over a decade, if they had an ounce of honesty they would have at the very least mentioned how many things were improving in China, like wages, infrastructure, pollution etc, especially the guy from New York, given how poor and run down things are in his corner of the country.

I know a fair amount of Chinese people, all of them have good things to say about their government and its performance running their country and overseeing the astonishing economic and industrial growth. The CCP has of course been far more repressive in decades past, when relations with China were fairly good and China was piss poor, but now that China is an economic giant, the relations have soured, and the media coverage darkened considerably...

---

Why would you follow these guys for a long time if they, as you say "Lie about the very aspects of life in China"? I don't tend to watch videos of people who I know are lying, for a long time. Also their claims about theft in China are usually backed up by videos from chinese citizens. You acting like China is this "high trust" society is laughable though. High trust societies don't build ghost cities in order to con their government and other chinese citizens out of their money.

They said things have improved in China a long time ago...so I guess they have honesty. If you had actually watched their channel for a long time, you would have clearly seen them talk about how things in China have improved. Pollution is NOT one of the things that have improved though.

I'll be honest, you have a very weird defensive stance when it comes to the CCP and China.

MinotStateBeav said:

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Cal88 said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Yeah they tend to be 100% anti-China when China tries to have them arrested and they barely escape the country via Hong Kong before it has been completely taken over by the CCP. However they lived in China for many years, I watched their content for years, don't believe me? Go look at their older videos. Their entire channel was originally about travelling China on their motorcycles, talking with Chinese people (very pro-china Channel called ADVChina). It was China's own government that turned them anti-China. They're both married to Chinese nationals and both their spouses were in their videos from time to time until China started threatening them too.

---

I have followed these guys as well for a long time and know for a fact that they lie about very basic aspects of life in China, like for instance the notion that theft is rampant when most people leave their belongings in cafes when they go to the restroom, and packages including high end electronics are left out in apartment entrance hallways for residents to pick up. Totally inconceivable in any western nation.

These guys have lived in China for over a decade, if they had an ounce of honesty they would have at the very least mentioned how many things were improving in China, like wages, infrastructure, pollution etc, especially the guy from New York, given how poor and run down things are in his corner of the country.

I know a fair amount of Chinese people, all of them have good things to say about their government and its performance running their country and overseeing the astonishing economic and industrial growth. The CCP has of course been far more repressive in decades past, when relations with China were fairly good and China was piss poor, but now that China is an economic giant, the relations have soured, and the media coverage darkened considerably...

---

Why would you follow these guys for a long time if they, as you say "Lie about the very aspects of life in China"? I don't tend to watch videos of people who I know are lying, for a long time. Also their claims about theft in China are usually backed up by videos from chinese citizens. You acting like China is this "high trust" society is laughable though. High trust societies don't build ghost cities in order to con their government and other chinese citizens out of their money.

They said things have improved in China a long time ago...so I guess they have honesty. If you had actually watched their channel for a long time, you would have clearly seen them talk about how things in China have improved. Pollution is NOT one of the things that have improved though.

I'll be honest, you have a very weird defensive stance when it comes to the CCP and China.

---

Winston Sterzel and his sidekick started out doing fairly innocuous bike travel videos in China, where they were sometimes condescending to the locals but it wasn't the constant one-sided politicized China bashing. Sterzel as well hasn't been to China in nearly a decade, his content is no longer based on first-hand experience, assuming he is trying to be objective, which he is clearly not.

Yes, China today is a high-trust society, the safety standards and societal trust are similar to what you find in S. Korea or Japan.

Packages chilling like it’s a 5-star resort! 🏖️🛍️😂 In China, your delivery is safe, sound, and waiting for you—no ninja🥷🏻 package thieves here! 🇨🇳✨ #PackageParadise #ChinaLife #TrustLevel100
📹 credit ~ Chinese Princess pic.twitter.com/TtNSkBmLWE

— Natie🇨🇳🇷🇺🇵🇸 (@Natie2Natie) February 16, 2025

Even new laptops are being put in everyone’s sight in the middle of Shanghai!

Just imagine living in such a safe city. WOW!

2/ pic.twitter.com/HlNBG8hamM

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) October 4, 2024

In China, you can leave your parcels out and nobody will steal. If you do this in Australia, the US, or the UK… they would definitely get stolen. pic.twitter.com/iRkbUiFOmP

— Li Zexin (@XH_Lee23) April 20, 2025

Quote:

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Pollution is NOT one of the things that have improved though.

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Remember when Beijing was always so smoggy that it was impossible to see a few feet in front of you?

That's basically fixed.

Since 2013, PM2.5 is down 64%, NO2 is down 54%, SO2 is down 89%, and instead of having just 13 clear days a year, they now have more than 300. pic.twitter.com/5lP7UUU4n0

— Crémieux (@cremieuxrecueil) March 19, 2025

Incredible progress in environment in China.

Major Chinese cities don’t even appear in the top 400 most polluted cities in the world (2022 ranking).https://t.co/9a6SlpS2mS

Beijing: #489

Shanghai: #678

Guangzhou: #920

Shenzhen: #1533

How did China reduce pollution?… pic.twitter.com/p1OZgLhyip

— S.L. Kanthan (@Kanthan2030) June 5, 2023

Since 2014 there has been a 40% reduction in China's air pollution. This amounts to more than 75% of total global decline in air pollution over this period. [click on images below] 1/3 pic.twitter.com/J5SsuB5rfR

— Martin Jacques (@martjacques) February 18, 2022

Quote:

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Quote:

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I'll be honest, you have a very weird defensive stance when it comes to the CCP and China.

---

---

China-bashing has been a staple of right wing outlets for a long time now, similar to Russia-bashing in the MSM. However in the last decade or so, outlets like CNN and the BBC have also been politicized and their reports on China are consistently biased against that country.

chazzed said:

---

4D chess?

Reporter: “[China is] saying it's fake news that trade talks are happening.”

Trump: “Well, they had a meeting this morning.”

Reporter: “Who's they?”

Trump: “I can't tell you. It doesn't matter who they is.” pic.twitter.com/lwXsm06gUl

— The Bulwark (@BulwarkOnline) April 24, 2025

---

It's amazing how he is able to just spin whatever yarns and blow right past people.
I don't know that this has ever happened before.

China offers to address US fentanyl concerns to revive trade talks, per Reuters

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) May 2, 2025

JUST IN: 🇨🇳🇺🇸 China considers sending top security official Wang Xiaohong to meet Trump team for trade talks.

— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) May 2, 2025

Could you summarize the WSJ piece? Intrigued by that pricing differential but also not sure I buy it. For example, what is the range on that car? Right or wrong american consumers have range anxiety and that is why you have seen so much effort put into the (currently) most expensive part of EVs - trying to add range even though the vast majority of drivers will only rarely need ever a charge of 350+ miles. If that Toyota has a range of <200 it would never sell in the US even at that price ;-(

socaltownie said:

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Could you summarize the WSJ piece? Intrigued by that pricing differential but also not sure I buy it. For example, what is the range on that car? Right or wrong american consumers have range anxiety and that is why you have seen so much effort put into the (currently) most expensive part of EVs - trying to add range even though the vast majority of drivers will only rarely need ever a charge of 350+ miles. If that Toyota has a range of <200 it would never sell in the US even at that price ;-(

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The EV range issue is being solved, they've caught up with ICEs and going forward will exceed them. For that Toyota SUV EV:

"The Toyota bZ3X has a CLTC (China Light Duty Test Cycle) range of up to 610 km (379 miles). This range is achieved by the top-tier "610 Max" trim, which features a 67.92 kWh battery. Other models offer ranges of 520 km (323 miles) and 430 km (267 miles).

Here's a breakdown of the different models and their ranges:

• 610 Max: Up to 610 km (379 miles) CLTC range with a 67.92 kWh battery.
• 520 Pro/Pro Plus: Up to 520 km (323 miles) CLTC range with a 58.37 kWh battery.
• 430 Air/Air Plus: Up to 430 km (267 miles) CLTC range with a 50.03 kWh battery. "

Full WSJ article above, available with on MSN no paywall:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/what-a-15-000-electric-suv-says-about-u-s-china-car-rivalry

Bottom line: that Toyota SUV is made in China, relying on the cheaper EV/battery local supply chain. The article estimates that the equivalent vehicle made in the US would cost at least $40k...

Quote:

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Toyota said its bZ3Xthe recently introduced model that starts at $15,000was designed in China by the company's engineers in the country, who worked with a local joint-venture partner. It is made in Guangzhou with Chinese batteries and driver-assistance software from Momenta, a Chinese leader in that field.

"This couldn't happen without a Chinese supply chain," said Masahiko Maeda, head of Toyota's Asia business. "Unless you localize, it's out of the question."

A Toyota spokesman said the company received 15,000 orders on the first day the bZ3X went on sale in China in March, more than expected. Many buyers are choosing to spend a few thousand dollars extra to get more advanced driver-assistance functions, he said.

Maeda said the U.S. has a "costly supply chain," meaning Toyota's U.S. showrooms won't be selling a $15,000 electric SUV soon. The closest equivalent, a slightly longer model called the bZ4X, starts at around $40,000 in the U.S.

People in the industry say that thanks to China's supply chain, it is still possible to make money on a $15,000 vehicle. BYD, the leader in that price range, said its first-quarter profit doubled to more than $1 billion.

---

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/swapped-gas-truck-chinese-hybrid-042101877.html


A good quick read

Jealous and foolish Americans will only say MAGA - we must make our own million mile battery.

socaltownie said:

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Could you summarize the WSJ piece? Intrigued by that pricing differential but also not sure I buy it. For example, what is the range on that car? Right or wrong american consumers have range anxiety and that is why you have seen so much effort put into the (currently) most expensive part of EVs - trying to add range even though the vast majority of drivers will only rarely need ever a charge of 350+ miles. If that Toyota has a range of <200 it would never sell in the US even at that price ;-(

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You might enjoy YouTube channel
@Inside_China_Business

Great rundown of the current macro situation and policy challenges by Alden:

"Lyn Alden breaks down Triffin's dilemma and how the dollar's global reserve status comes at the cost of America's industrial base. She analyzes Trump's tariff strategy, China's manufacturing dominance, and the challenges of reshoring industry while maintaining dollar supremacy.

The conversation explores America's energy production gap compared to China, the shifting global monetary order, and how Bitcoin fits into this transition as countries potentially diversify their reserves beyond dollar-denominated assets."

concordtom said:

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If you like his takes, then did you watch the Ray Dalio "changing world order" presentation I posted elsewhere?
Perhaps it was in my "say goodbye to the dollar" thread.

Guys like Diablo see the status quo as invincible. Nothing lasts forever. Not even Rome.




I had an uncle tell me, perhaps it was late 90's, that he had moved a large portion of his portfolio into cash. Then he said, everyone (whether bull or bear) is right, it's merely just a matter of timing.

The long term view says he missed out on all those gains of 98 and 99. Then March 2000 came. Then he missed the subsequent run up to 2007. Then the next big fall.
And it goes on.

If you back out to Ray Dalio scale, those are bumps in the bigger theme. This Inside China fellow is speaking to that.
Dalio says usually the shift from one leader to another happens at a point of large conflict, and up to that point the old power makes moves to cling and prolong.

Our military interventions are representative, as is the printing of currency, as everyone does.

There is no currency backed by anything other than the promise of the government to repay. All are "fiat".
What will replace if one or multiple break? Crypto? Good? The strongest remaining alternative?

All I know is that $35T is an insane amount which we will never repay. Something's gotta give.

Meanwhile, China is winning the production game. US is good for entertainment and, as one commenter said, "ambulance chasers". But there's no real value in that. It's like Charlie Sheen va Martin Sheen in Wall Street. One lived high on the hog off the production of others. The other produced. Yes, the world needs efficient capital markets, but after a point where's the real value?

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Dalio follows up with THE BIG THING:

https://raydalio.substack.com/p/the-big-thing-we-are-in-a-world-war


And here's a summary:

Quote:

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Ray Dalio's core message:
Dalio argues that the world has already entered an earlystage world war, not in the traditional singlefront sense, but as a network of interconnected military, economic, technological, and geopolitical conflicts that will not end anytime soon. Markets and policymakers, he warns, are dangerously misreading the moment by assuming a quick return to "normal."


What Dalio means by "world war"

Dalio is not predicting an imminent U.S.China shooting war. Instead, he says we are in the conflict phase of the Big Cycle, where major powers engage simultaneously in:

Hot wars (RussiaUkraine; IsraelGazaLebanonSyria; U.S.IsraelIran; YemenSudanSaudiUAE)
Nonshooting wars (trade, capital, technology, sanctions, influence)
Together, these form a global, interconnected conflict system involving nearly all major powers.

The structural forces driving this "Big Thing"

Dalio breaks the situation into several longterm structural shifts:

1. Realignment into opposing blocs

Two broad camps are solidifying:

ChinaRussiaIranNorth Korea
U.S.EuropeIsraelJapanAustralia
These alliances will shape every future conflict and economic decision. odaily.news


2. Escalating trade, capital, and technology wars

Key economic chokepoints (energy, semiconductors, shipping lanes) are being weaponized, and financial systems are increasingly part of the battlefield.

3. Multiple conflict theaters interacting

Dalio stresses that the danger is not any single war, but the linkage among themhow escalation in one region affects others (Middle East, Ukraine, South China Sea, Korean Peninsula).
He estimates >50% probability that at least one major conflict escalates within five years.

4. Endurance matters more than raw power

Wars are won by who can sustain longterm attrition, not who is strongest on paper.
The U.S., while the most powerful, is also the most globally overextended, which complicates its longterm staying power.

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Why the Middle East matters so much

Dalio highlights the Strait of Hormuz as a decisive global hinge:

Whoever controls it controls a major share of global energy flow.
The U.S.IsraelIran conflict is therefore not regionalit has worldwide economic and geopolitical consequences.


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The big misjudgment Dalio warns about

Markets and most observers assume:

The conflicts will be short
Order will return to normal
Dalio argues this is historically wrong.
Wars rarely have clear beginnings; they evolve from economic and political tensions into multifront crisesexactly what is happening now.

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Dalio's bottom line

We are already in a world war, defined by interconnected conflicts across military, economic, and technological domains.
This phase is part of a predictable Big Cycle seen before 1914 and 1939.
The world is shifting from a rulesbased order to a powerbased order.
The key question is not "who is stronger?" but "who can endure the longest?"
Expect longterm instability, not a quick resolution.

Excellent presentation and analysis on the course of the two wars. He goes into the internal political situation in Germany, thinks Russia will retaliate on targets inside NATO unless there is a shift in German policy.

movielover said:

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Colonel MacGregor for years has said the Ukraine and Israel wars reduced our inventories, then add in Iran.

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But Hegseth says no problem. This is most likely a bargaining chip not a supply problem.

If so, doesn't that pull us in? Or could President Trump say no?