SoCal fires thread

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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 4:25p, 1/8/25
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
Cal88 said:
Does CA have Canadair water bombers?

Those planes would pay for themselves with a single 6hr mission over LA, the cost of a couple dozen houses.

Yes.
Quebec sends two CL-415's and their crews to LA each year as part of a contract dating back to 1994.

It's an amazing physics equation.
And at the heart of the equation are a pair of Pratt & Whitney turboprop engines each capable of 1,775 kW of thrust.


2 planes really doesn't cut it, in comparison Greece and Italy each have fleets of two dozen Canadairs. California is equally prone to fires with its mediterranean weather and Santa Ana wind patterns. A dozen Canadairs would have knocked down the fires over Pacific Palisades, each plane being capable of up to 20 runs scooping up water from the ocean without refueling.


Maybe they want the fires to promote their Climate Alarmism. "Never let an emergency go to waste".

I bet these fires put more CO2 and dangerous elements into the air than farting cows and grandma's old Rambler.
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movielover
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In reply to MinotStateBeav • 4:31p, 1/8/25
Funny thing about fires breaks, thinning, controlled burns, grazing ...they help prevent super fires burning through to the ocean. They give a defensible space.

Or a fire burning horrifically through Mt. Tam, Orinda, or Oakland.

Vigilant homeowner maintenence is also key. The Oakland Hills, narrow roads, large trees, still looks like a potential nightmare.
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wifeisafurd
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In reply to DiabloWags • 4:32p, 1/8/25
DiabloWags said:
concordtom said:
Stucco
Brick
New construction practices need to be mandated in California.

I think this event has convinced me. If I ever build anything, I'm not doing wood.



Tom, I hate to break this to you but in the City of Los Angeles (like a lot of areas) all wood shake or wood shingle roof covering is prohibited.

Z:\ADG\LADBS Web Site\LADBSWeb\WebContent\LADBS_Forms\To do sorting backup files\IB-P-BC 2017-013 Roofing Requirements.wpd
This thread may set a record for misinformation and lack of understanding.
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DiabloWags
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In reply to sycasey • 4:51p, 1/8/25
There's a big FOREST in the Pacific Palisades and Gov. Newsom never "raked" it.
Don't you know bro???
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movielover
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4:52p, 1/8/25
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DiabloWags
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In reply to movielover • 4:54p, 1/8/25
movielover said:



I bet these fires put more CO2 and dangerous elements into the air than farting cows and grandma's old Rambler.

Sounds like the typical Trump rally.
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to movielover • 5:02p, 1/8/25
movielover said:
Funny thing about fires breaks, thinning, controlled burns, grazing ...they help prevent super fires burning through to the ocean. They give a defensible space.

Or a fire burning horrifically through Mt. Tam, Orinda, or Oakland.

Vigilant homeowner maintenence is also key. The Oakland Hills, narrow roads, large trees, still looks like a potential nightmare.
If you're counting on firebreaks to stop a fire driven by 70 or 80 mph winds with erratic directions, your firebreaks better be at least a half mile wide, maybe a mile. Heck, just completely remove all vegetation on open land. Of course, then you'd have to worry about mudslides when it rains.
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oski003
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In reply to DiabloWags • 5:03p, 1/8/25
DiabloWags said:
There's a big FOREST in the Pacific Palisades and Gov. Newsom never "raked" it.
Don't you know bro???


These fires are occurring in forested areas. Get a clue.
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to bear2034 • 5:05p, 1/8/25
bear2034 said:
concordtom said:
These fires are the result of arid conditions and high winds, primarily.

But there are real questions with no answers at this point.
Wouldn't surprise me if dry fire hydrants were due to everyone running their garden hoses on their roofs. Or maybe power outages shutting off water pumps.
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movielover
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 5:09p, 1/8/25
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
Funny thing about fires breaks, thinning, controlled burns, grazing ...they help prevent super fires burning through to the ocean. They give a defensible space.

Or a fire burning horrifically through Mt. Tam, Orinda, or Oakland.

Vigilant homeowner maintenence is also key. The Oakland Hills, narrow roads, large trees, still looks like a potential nightmare.
If you're counting on firebreaks to stop a fire driven by 70 or 80 mph winds with erratic directions, your firebreaks better be at least a half mile wide, maybe a mile. Heck, just completely remove all vegetation on open land. Of course, then you'd have to worry about mudslides when it rains.


Exactly why some fire breaks are combined with freeways / major boulevards, and frontage roads. Fire breaks on both sides
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to bear2034 • 5:16p, 1/8/25
bear2034 said:
concordtom said:
And there it is!
The toxic pollutants have arrived on the scene.

Diversity, equity, and inclusion?
Someone should tell the self proclaimed high IQ genius James Woods that the goal of reservoir operators isn't to fill reservoirs by December. They generally fill them slowly throughout the winter so that they have some storage capacity left for storms during January-April and reduce any potential flooding. Even if they wanted to fill reservoirs by now, rain has been way below normal so far in So Cal as the storm track has been into the Pacific Northwest for the most part so far this winter. At least, that's what I've read.
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to movielover • 5:22p, 1/8/25
movielover said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
Funny thing about fires breaks, thinning, controlled burns, grazing ...they help prevent super fires burning through to the ocean. They give a defensible space.

Or a fire burning horrifically through Mt. Tam, Orinda, or Oakland.

Vigilant homeowner maintenence is also key. The Oakland Hills, narrow roads, large trees, still looks like a potential nightmare.
If you're counting on firebreaks to stop a fire driven by 70 or 80 mph winds with erratic directions, your firebreaks better be at least a half mile wide, maybe a mile. Heck, just completely remove all vegetation on open land. Of course, then you'd have to worry about mudslides when it rains.


Exactly why some fire breaks are combined with freeways / major boulevards, and frontage roads. Fire breaks on both sides
Fires with embers driven by winds like those in LA last night would hop an interstate like it wasn't even there. Probably did in the Altadena fire though I don't know the LA freeway system well enough to see what's in that area.
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movielover
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 5:40p, 1/8/25
I'm not implying it's perfect, but it gives FF a chance and a place to stage.
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movielover
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 6:01p, 1/8/25
Snark over knowledge.

My understanding is that our San Luis Reservoir is a large storage reservoir used to refill reservoirs south of it. Many don't understand why it hasn't been filled more given our great start to the rain year, but it's still at 81% of capacity. Most SoCal reservoirs look great.

Casitas = 96% capacity
Cachuma = 89%
Castaic = 77%
New Melones = 78%

SLR is refilled from NorCal, currently at 81% of capacity.

https://cdec.water.ca.gov/resapp/RescondMain

Infrastructure appears unable to meet fires of this magnitude.

"On Monday, LADWP filled all available water storage facility tanks (around 114 throughout the City), including three 1-million gallon tanks in the Palisades area...."

"Janisse Quiñones, head of LADWP, said in a news conference that four times the normal demand of water was seen for 15 hours straight in the area of the fires."

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/extreme-weather-verify/palisades-los-angeles-fire-hydrants-water-fact-check/536-87045971-aacb-4319-9b39-8d999675eae1

Across-the-board improvements may have helped. There is likely simply too much fuel - dead and alive - in that area which causes a fire to explode in size.

- aggressive YEARLY controlled burns, fire trails, fire breaks, thinning, and grazing
- another 1-million gallon water tank, or two
- larger on-hand fleet of CL-415 Canadair water bombers (Cal88)
- picking fire leadership based on merit, not DEI

Liberals fought or will fight most of these.

Liberal millionaires don't want a blackened hillside next to their mansions, or grazing sheep, cows, or goats... though kids love them. If they were educated, they could look forward to new wild flowers and growth. The Sierra Club sued years ago to remove fire trails.

Building into canyons and forested areas has always been risky. My friend, a former fire captain, was religious about keeping a "defensible space" around his former hillside home. Few in Oakland meet his criteria.

It's no to common sense, and blame it on Global Cooling / Warming.
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to movielover • 7:31p, 1/8/25
movielover said:
Snark over knowledge.

My understanding is that our San Luis Reservoir is a large storage reservoir used to refill reservoirs south of it. Many don't understand why it hasn't been filled more given our great start to the rain year, but it's still at 81% of capacity. Most SoCal reservoirs look great.

Casitas = 96% capacity
Cachuma = 89%
Castaic = 77%
New Melones = 78%

SLR is refilled from NorCal, currently at 81% of capacity.

https://cdec.water.ca.gov/resapp/RescondMain

Infrastructure appears unable to meet fires of this magnitude.

"On Monday, LADWP filled all available water storage facility tanks (around 114 throughout the City), including three 1-million gallon tanks in the Palisades area...."

"Janisse Quiñones, head of LADWP, said in a news conference that four times the normal demand of water was seen for 15 hours straight in the area of the fires."

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/extreme-weather-verify/palisades-los-angeles-fire-hydrants-water-fact-check/536-87045971-aacb-4319-9b39-8d999675eae1

Across-the-board improvements may have helped. There is likely simply too much fuel - dead and alive - in that area which causes a fire to explode in size.

- aggressive YEARLY controlled burns, fire trails, fire breaks, thinning, and grazing
- another 1-million gallon water tank, or two
- larger on-hand fleet of CL-415 Canadair water bombers (Cal88)
- picking fire leadership based on merit, not DEI

Liberals fought or will fight most of these.

Liberal millionaires don't want a blackened hillside next to their mansions, or grazing sheep, cows, or goats... though kids love them. If they were educated, they could look forward to new wild flowers and growth. The Sierra Club sued years ago to remove fire trails.

Building into e canyons and forested areas has always been risky. My friend, a former fire captain, was religious about keeping a "defensible space" around his former hillside home. Few in Oakland meet his criteria.

It's no to common sense, and blame it on Global Cooling / Warming.
Well then, James Woods blame gaming about filling reservoirs not being a priority is just emotional nonsense isn't it? I feel sorry that he lost his house, but it's been clear for many decades that living there carried a risk of wildfires like this one. You make your choices and take your chances. Yesterday, the dice came up snake eyes.

My agency has nothing to do with prescribed burning, but our office gets frequent calls every spring from angry people upset that they have to put up with a few hours of smoke from prescribed burning in their neighborhood. I take some of those calls and try to calm them down and direct them to the appropriate agency if I can tell who it is. I often get an earful about damn liberals in Portland ruining their quality of life.
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okaydo
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In reply to concordtom • 8:09p, 1/8/25
concordtom said:
Those are some interesting issues.
Certainly, it would be a lower cost structure to have your restaurant on wheels. No property taxes or sunk cost into maintaining a mortgage. Or no rental of the building to the property owner.
I wonder about tax revenue as well when you're dealing with an all cash business like that.

It seems like municipalities, whether local, county or state, need to have some provisions for mobile businesses like that.

If Pacific Palisades as a community wants them there, then it should create some sort of code for them to exist in a way that doesn't infringe upon other property owners. Why should it be up to Ralph's to police their parking lot like that?

I imagine "wife" would have some thoughts about this.

It's not all cash. Actually, it's rarely cash. They take credit cards.

The food trucks where I go to operate surrounding a supermarket next to a wealthy area. Zero complaints. They generally operate from 5 to 11 pm and they bring foot traffic (and the feeling of safety) to a very dark area.

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okaydo
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8:10p, 1/8/25
Oooh...the fires are coming my way. If you don't hear from my ever again, peace out!

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okaydo
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In reply to okaydo • 8:17p, 1/8/25
okaydo said:
Oooh...the fires are coming my way. If you don't hear from my ever again, peace out!


But seriously. I *think* I'm safe. I don't live near the hills. But I live like a few miles from the yellow area.
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sonofabear51
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In reply to okaydo • 9:49p, 1/8/25
Pack the essentials and get the pets ready JIC. We live down here also, and can be ready in 20 minutes, cats included.

Be safe.
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movielover
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9:56p, 1/8/25
Insider pictures.

https://thedukereport.substack.com/p/pacicic-palisades-village-devestation
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MinotStateBeav
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10:21p, 1/8/25
Be careful when or if you're donating to "funds" for helping fire victims. Do your research, just an FYI.

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concordtom
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In reply to Cal88 • 12:18a, 1/9/25
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
Cal88 said:
Does CA have Canadair water bombers?

Those planes would pay for themselves with a single 6hr mission over LA, the cost of a couple dozen houses.

Yes.
Quebec sends two CL-415's and their crews to LA each year as part of a contract dating back to 1994.

It's an amazing physics equation.
And at the heart of the equation are a pair of Pratt & Whitney turboprop engines each capable of 1,775 kW of thrust.


2 planes really doesn't cut it, in comparison Greece and Italy each have fleets of two dozen Canadairs. California is equally prone to fires with its mediterranean weather and Santa Ana wind patterns. A dozen Canadairs would have knocked down the fires over Pacific Palisades, each plane being capable of up to 20 runs scooping up water from the ocean without refueling.


Each dump is 1400 gallons of water, I heard in a prior video.

They were going to be able to scoop that up safely even with the ocean swells?

1400 is nothing.
You don't know if 20 would have done much.
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concordtom
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In reply to DiabloWags • 12:26a, 1/9/25
DiabloWags said:
concordtom said:
Stucco
Brick
New construction practices need to be mandated in California.

I think this event has convinced me. If I ever build anything, I'm not doing wood.



Tom, I hate to break this to you but in the City of Los Angeles (like a lot of areas) all wood shake or wood shingle roof covering is prohibited.

Z:\ADG\LADBS Web Site\LADBSWeb\WebContent\LADBS_Forms\To do sorting backup files\IB-P-BC 2017-013 Roofing Requirements.wpd

I hate to break this to you, but I was talking about siding and framing and decking and all other wood components.
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concordtom
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 12:33a, 1/9/25
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
bear2034 said:
concordtom said:
And there it is!
The toxic pollutants have arrived on the scene.

Diversity, equity, and inclusion?
Someone should tell the self proclaimed high IQ genius James Woods that the goal of reservoir operators isn't to fill reservoirs by December. They generally fill them slowly throughout the winter so that they have some storage capacity left for storms during January-April and reduce any potential flooding. Even if they wanted to fill reservoirs by now, rain has been way below normal so far in So Cal as the storm track has been into the Pacific Northwest for the most part so far this winter. At least, that's what I've read.


Los Angeles has received .7% of normal rainfall since this season began October 1. Remind.
That's essentially zero rain the last three months, and we know that it certainly would not have rained six months prior, so after two years of good precipitation we have had nine months straight of no rain. Combine that with Highwinds blowing hot arid, desert air, and you just need some sort of spark to ignite. The winds take care of the rest.
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concordtom
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In reply to okaydo • 12:36a, 1/9/25
okaydo said:
okaydo said:
Oooh...the fires are coming my way. If you don't hear from my ever again, peace out!


But seriously. I *think* I'm safe. I don't live near the hills. But I live like a few miles from the yellow area.


All the best.
You ARE the best.
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concordtom
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In reply to sonofabear51 • 12:37a, 1/9/25
sonofabear51 said:
Pack the essentials and get the pets ready JIC. We live down here also, and can be ready in 20 minutes, cats included.

Be safe.


Load the car(s)
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chazzed
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12:45a, 1/9/25
What a joke.


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BearGoggles
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In reply to sycasey • 1:12a, 1/9/25
sycasey said:
What I have learned about this from Twitter:

1. It's conservatives' fault because of climate change.

2. It's liberals' fault because of bad California government.

I see the latter position has already been spammed to death here by the usual suspects.

If you assume arguendo that #1 is correct (that the fires are exacerbated by climate change), then I think it makes it clear #2 is also true.

Whatever the cause, the wild fire risks are known. As others have pointed out, we have Santa Ana winds every year. We have homes in high fire risk areas. The state and local government have indisputably failed us. And that is in large part because they have given priority to other less important initiatives over fire, police, and water/fire fighting infrastructure.

They need to pass laws (state and federal) that allow fire clearing in accordance with standard practices that are proven effective (i.e., fire clearing) and construction of water infrastructure. There should be full and unequivocal exemptions from CEQA, Endangered Species and other similar laws.

There will always be fires. But our state is not even doing the bare minimum to mitigate the harm.

And they need to fix the insurance system by removing the insurance commissioner regime that prevents insurance companies from raising rates commensurate with expected losses. After this episode, I can't imagine any insurers will issue casualty policies in the state (and the California program is now effectively insolvent). Insurance companies will not write policies where they are guaranteed to lose money. Rather than calling a special session to oppose Trump, our fine governor should call a special session to fix the insurance problem - which predates the current situation.

And as an aside, the people in the palisades are going to go through coastal commission hell when trying to rebuild. I cannot even imagine the time and pain they will endure. CA should pass an exemption allowing all homeowners to rebuild w/o a coastal commission permit as long as what is being built is consistent with the prior improvements and permitted zoning.
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Cal88
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In reply to concordtom • 4:54a, 1/9/25
concordtom said:
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
Cal88 said:
Does CA have Canadair water bombers?

Those planes would pay for themselves with a single 6hr mission over LA, the cost of a couple dozen houses.

Yes.
Quebec sends two CL-415's and their crews to LA each year as part of a contract dating back to 1994.

It's an amazing physics equation.
And at the heart of the equation are a pair of Pratt & Whitney turboprop engines each capable of 1,775 kW of thrust.


2 planes really doesn't cut it, in comparison Greece and Italy each have fleets of two dozen Canadairs. California is equally prone to fires with its mediterranean weather and Santa Ana wind patterns. A dozen Canadairs would have knocked down the fires over Pacific Palisades, each plane being capable of up to 20 runs scooping up water from the ocean without refueling.


Each dump is 1400 gallons of water, I heard in a prior video.

They were going to be able to scoop that up safely even with the ocean swells?

1400 is nothing.
You don't know if 20 would have done much.

If te ocean is too choppy, any small lake or reservoir nearby would do.
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concordtom
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:36a, 1/9/25
Cal88 said:
concordtom said:
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
Cal88 said:
Does CA have Canadair water bombers?

Those planes would pay for themselves with a single 6hr mission over LA, the cost of a couple dozen houses.

Yes.
Quebec sends two CL-415's and their crews to LA each year as part of a contract dating back to 1994.

It's an amazing physics equation.
And at the heart of the equation are a pair of Pratt & Whitney turboprop engines each capable of 1,775 kW of thrust.


2 planes really doesn't cut it, in comparison Greece and Italy each have fleets of two dozen Canadairs. California is equally prone to fires with its mediterranean weather and Santa Ana wind patterns. A dozen Canadairs would have knocked down the fires over Pacific Palisades, each plane being capable of up to 20 runs scooping up water from the ocean without refueling.


Each dump is 1400 gallons of water, I heard in a prior video.

They were going to be able to scoop that up safely even with the ocean swells?

1400 is nothing.
You don't know if 20 would have done much.

If te ocean is too choppy, any small lake or reservoir nearby would do.

Well, I just heard that they were able to airdrop water on the sunset fire in the Hollywood hills and that helped. I'm sure we'd love 100x the airdrops right now. Then you'd have to have that many pilots trained to use them.

There are many ways to mitigate this. I mentioned fireproof construction. Others talked about water tanks and reservoirs.

We simply don't have the money. Or, the political will or agreement. Magas would rather focus on exporting Mexicans because they overheard them speaking Spanish in line at the store and felt uncomfortable because they are English-only speakers. Recall in other threads we discuss $35T debt.

I give up.
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concordtom
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7:41a, 1/9/25
Bel-Air Bay Club saved.
Burned homes around it.
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concordtom
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7:52a, 1/9/25
Thursday morning update

5 fires:

1) Palisades, 17200 acres, 1100 homes

2) Eaton fire in Altadena, 10600 acres, 5 dead. Did I hear 1000 homes?

3) Hurst fire, 850 acres, near silmar.

4) sunset fire near Hollywood, 40 acres, and I just heard that they are on top of it and evacuation orders lifted.

5) Lidia fire, 340 acres, 40% contained. Initial location: 5700 Block of Soledad Canyon Rd, Acton

6) studio city? Okaydo?



color indicates smoke
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DiabloWags
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7:53a, 1/9/25
oski003
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In reply to concordtom • 7:54a, 1/9/25
concordtom said:
Cal88 said:
concordtom said:
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
Cal88 said:
Does CA have Canadair water bombers?

Those planes would pay for themselves with a single 6hr mission over LA, the cost of a couple dozen houses.

Yes.
Quebec sends two CL-415's and their crews to LA each year as part of a contract dating back to 1994.

It's an amazing physics equation.
And at the heart of the equation are a pair of Pratt & Whitney turboprop engines each capable of 1,775 kW of thrust.


2 planes really doesn't cut it, in comparison Greece and Italy each have fleets of two dozen Canadairs. California is equally prone to fires with its mediterranean weather and Santa Ana wind patterns. A dozen Canadairs would have knocked down the fires over Pacific Palisades, each plane being capable of up to 20 runs scooping up water from the ocean without refueling.


Each dump is 1400 gallons of water, I heard in a prior video.

They were going to be able to scoop that up safely even with the ocean swells?

1400 is nothing.
You don't know if 20 would have done much.

If te ocean is too choppy, any small lake or reservoir nearby would do.

Well, I just heard that they were able to airdrop water on the sunset fire in the Hollywood hills and that helped. I'm sure we'd love 100x the airdrops right now. Then you'd have to have that many pilots trained to use them.

There are many ways to mitigate this. I mentioned fireproof construction. Others talked about water tanks and reservoirs.

We simply don't have the money. Or, the political will or agreement. Magas would rather focus on exporting Mexicans because they overheard them speaking Spanish in line at the store and felt uncomfortable because they are English-only speakers. Recall in other threads we discuss $35T debt.

I give up.


The Democrat run governments of California and Los Angeles are restricted from proactive fire prevention management because Maga folks want to deport illegal immigrants?

Tom, that is one of the dumbest things you have ever said on BI.
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Anarchistbear
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7:56a, 1/9/25
You have 18 million people living in a desert not sufficient in water, with an extraordinary occurrence of high winds and no winter rains. Is this really so hard to understand ? Infrastructure doesn't prevent this; it's a risk of living in one of the most desirable and perilous areas of the United States.

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