bearister said:

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movielover said:

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Hopefully not true. Astroturf operators also now dispersing American flags to flip the PR.

"SHOCK REVELATION According to intelligence sources MS13 has acquired shoulder fired surface to air and antitank missiles is prepared to use them if marines are deployed to LA."

https://nitter.poast.org/isource_news/status/1932127885932073379#m

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If for the sake of argument, we presume that to be accurate, who would stand to benefit from the outcome of that scenario, MS13 or the Trump Administration?

*Tip: It may help you in this exercise to compare and contrast how the scenario advances the goals of MS13's criminal enterprise vs advances the agenda of the Trump Administration.

Gavin Newsom: Trump is 'unhinged,' speaking like an 'authoritarian' - POLITICO


https://www.politico.com/news/2025/06/09/gavin-newsom-trump-is-unhinged-speaking-like-an-authoritarian-00394617

California Gov. Gavin Newsom said Donald Trump's threats against him and other Democrats following the president's unilateral deployment of National Guard troops to the Los Angeles area carried all the markings of authoritarianism.

"It's just an extraordinary moment, and I don't want to overstate it, but these are the words of an authoritarian," Newsom said in a Monday interview with POLITICO. "Whether he acts on it or not, the chill that creates is real, and it's a serious moment, very serious."

Newsom, Bass and other Democratic leaders believe Trump's moves were designed to provoke protesters to produce footage showing a major American city in chaos as well as an attempt to distract from the uneven economy hastened by his trade standoffs and his messy breakup with Elon Musk.

"He is unhinged, and he's acting recklessly, and the threat of the Marines coming in the United States, this is a very serious and sober moment. We are going to stand firm," Newsom said."

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It is way more effective for MS-13 to hide behind loony liberal violent protestors than to fight the US national guard.

Anarchistbear said:

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Californians don't make distinctions between illegal and legal. They are all part of the fabric here, tolerated and accepted as construction workers, cooks, etc.

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Legal immigrants, in other words, Americans, make distinctions between illegal and legal.
Democrats don't make distinctions.

bear2034 said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Californians don't make distinctions between illegal and legal. They are all part of the fabric here, tolerated and accepted as construction workers, cooks, etc.

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Legal immigrants, in other words, Americans, make distinctions between illegal and legal.
Democrats don't make distinctions.

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Oh I expect a large part of the Republican Central Valley in Ag don't make distinctions, which begs the question as to why they aren't targeted instead of puny Home Depots. The answer is obvious- these raids have little to do with illegals

Anarchistbear said:

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bear2034 said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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bear2034 said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Californians don't make distinctions between illegal and legal. They are all part of the fabric here, tolerated and accepted as construction workers, cooks, etc.

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Legal immigrants, in other words, Americans, make distinctions between illegal and legal.
Democrats don't make distinctions.

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Oh I expect a large part of the Republican Central Valley in Ag don't make distinctions, which begs the question as to why they aren't targeted instead of puny Home Depots. The answer is obvious- these raids have little to do with illegals

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All illegals broke the law to enter the country but the majority aren't rapists and murderers.

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True. You think the rapists and murderers are working at Home Depot or are women working in a garment factory. This is what was targeted with convoys of armed law enforcement

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I don't know which ones are murderers or rapists but I did vote for mass deportations of illegals. It's easier if Gavin Newsom took some responsibility so the federal government doesn't have to take on the full burden.

bear2034 said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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bear2034 said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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bear2034 said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Californians don't make distinctions between illegal and legal. They are all part of the fabric here, tolerated and accepted as construction workers, cooks, etc.

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Legal immigrants, in other words, Americans, make distinctions between illegal and legal.
Democrats don't make distinctions.

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Oh I expect a large part of the Republican Central Valley in Ag don't make distinctions, which begs the question as to why they aren't targeted instead of puny Home Depots. The answer is obvious- these raids have little to do with illegals

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All illegals broke the law to enter the country but the majority aren't rapists and murderers.

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True. You think the rapists and murderers are working at Home Depot or are women working in a garment factory. This is what was targeted with convoys of armed law enforcement

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I don't know which ones are murderers or rapists but I did vote for mass deportations of illegals. It's easier if Gavin Newsom took some responsibility so the federal government doesn't have to take on the full burden.

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You may have voted for it but it was campaign rhetoric, it ain't happening. Trump's deportation numbers are close to Biden's. As to Newsom, local law enforcement should be deployed as the community desires not as the federal government desires.

Anarchistbear said:

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You may have voted for it but it was campaign rhetoric, it ain't happening. Trump's deportation numbers are close to Biden's. As to Newsom, local law enforcement should be deployed as the community desires not as the federal government desires.

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Without looking it up I'd bet a large beer the number of new immigrants is way down under Trump so even if their deportation number are similar it's a net decrease of illegal immigrants under Trump.

About time. Anyone watching these idiots on the streets? So many are not peaceful protesters - they are showing up with padding, helmets, goggles, masks, backpacks with who knows what - they are anarchists taking advantage of the chaos. Last night it was basically just looting, not protesting. Enough is enough. I'm all for peaceful protests and those are absolutely welcome and needed in our society. What many of these morons are doing is not that and they should be arrested as domestic terrorists.

movielover said:

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- we didn't have 2 to 5 million a year coming illegally, that's insanity
- we had (and have) legal guest worker programs for agriculture
- we didn't have an Autopen Democrat administration rerouting FEMA monies to fly in illegals, and church groups to profit from resetting them
- we didn't have 80,000 - 100,000 people a year dying from cheap, powerful drugs, easily attainable bc of a collaboration between CCP China and Mexican drug cartels
- millions of illegal immigrants undercut the labor rate for African and Caucasian Americans, which means many decided not to marry
- example: illegal immigrants displaced and undercut union jobs in the meat packing plants in Iowa
- our Black neighbor, a roofer raising a family w four girls, lost one union job when a Mexican crew had their white foreman offer to roof the housing tract in Orange County for half the price
- we didn't have ERs flooded w illegal workers using the ER as their doctors office, nor did we have rampant hospital closings
- a friend worked at Head Start in the far East Bay, she said their students were 100% Latino, largely illegal
- we didn't have illegal workers displacing Black families in South Central LA, Oakland, The City and Richmond
- we didn't have over 50% of births in LA County in public hospitals to undocumented immigrants
- we didn't have countless social programs to tap into, many that cumulatively cost billions of dollars per year
- I heard two senior women on fixed incomes, one Latina, one White, say "I feel like I'm being pushed out from my city"

We assimilated many different immigrant groups in manageable numbers - Mexican Americans, Filipinos, Vietnamese, etc. - not tens of Millions, including hundreds of gangs, including child and human smuggling. Large barrios or even cities mean these immigrants aren't learning English, and explains our cratering proficiency scores.

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Your last point is important. Recently was speaking with a sixth grade teacher at an inner-city public school here n Los Angeles. This past semester they completed their proficiency tests and out of the 160 students she works with only ten were reading/writing at grade level. Ten. The vast majority were at a second/third grade level. That is a problem.

Another point - per my friends in the LAPD narcotics division, drugs and fentanyl supplies have been massively reduced thanks to a more secure border. It's a multi-billion dollar industry, so the cartels will likely find other ways in, but in the interim, it has been a welcome change.

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome. Obviously what we are seeing now is trying to stem the flow, but I sincerely hope the parties come together with a plan to make the legal process more efficient. That should be the focus, not this stupid pissing contest we see day-in/day-out.

socaltownie said:

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Really there is literally NO place in CA that isn't directly touched by illegal/undocumented immigrants.
The THREAT of Mass deportation is already having a significant impact on the central valley which will be even more pronounced in the fall.

https://www.ncaeonline.org/ag-labor-research/declining-farm-labor-supply/

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What does this even mean? There's no part of the state that isn't touched by violent crime. Should we stop arresting and prosecuting people? If we need central valley farm workers then reinstitute or expand the prior temporary / seasonal worker program. And deport illegals, starting with criminals, those staying here under existing deportation orders, etc. If there are impacts thsoe impacts will inlcude increased wages (without needing to raise the minimum wage), lower housing prices, less money spent on social services, smaller class sizes, etc.

socaltownie said:

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HKBear97! said:

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Your last point is important. Recently was speaking with a sixth grade teacher at an inner-city public school here n Los Angeles. This past semester they completed their proficiency tests and out of the 160 students she works with only ten were reading/writing at grade level. Ten. The vast majority were at a second/third grade level. That is a problem.

Another point - per my friends in the LAPD narcotics division, drugs and fentanyl supplies have been massively reduced thanks to a more secure border. It's a multi-billion dollar industry, so the cartels will likely find other ways in, but in the interim, it has been a welcome change.

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome. Obviously what we are seeing now is trying to stem the flow, but I sincerely hope the parties come together with a plan to make the legal process more efficient. That should be the focus, not this stupid pissing contest we see day-in/day-out.

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OK. The problem with this as "research findings" is that we simply do not know the english language skills/assimilations of prior waves of immigrants because we didn't apply standardized tests and in many cases didn't ask them to attend school. I wonder if we did the same testing of Italian immigrants living in the lower east side in the 1890s or the waves of German immigrant children in the 1870s what we would find. Ditto even the Irhh, who in many cases did not speak English but Gaelic.

I think a more complete and fair view of immigration would find that english proficiency really takes until Generation 3 and that if we then controlled for income we would find little to no differences in proficiency.

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Yes, but now we do have organized education and more importantly today's economy is not the same. If we want any of these children to succeed and prosper in this country, they will need to be able to read and write. Otherwise, we are setting them up for failure - forced into un-skilled, poorly paid labor that will continue to be exploited. As movielover pointed out, the system is not equipped to handle this level of immigration.

And I disagree on your point about English proficiency taking three generations. I personally know numerous Chinese and Vietnamese immigrants that arrived here (legally) as children without any language skills that today are proficient in English and economically successful.

tequila4kapp said:

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DiabloWags said:

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sycasey said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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DiabloWags said:

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And by USC estimates, Los Angeles County is home to over 800,000 undocumented immigrants.
And it's "likely that the City of LA has at least 380,000 undocumented immigrants."

Los Angeles becomes sanctuary city but relies on federal funds for migrants | California | thecentersquare.com

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It is estimated that @20% of CA's population are undocumented (illegal) immigrants.

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20%? That's 8 million people. That's more than the entire population of the Bay Area metro region. Have you got some proof of that claim?

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"It is estimated."

Pew Research puts it closer to 6%.

https://www.ppic.org/publication/undocumented-immigrants-in-california/

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Ummm Tequila ... the entire unauthorized population in the U.S. was 11.0 million in 2022.

What we know about unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

As of 2022, Pew Research has the undocumented number at 1.8 million for CA.
Down from 2.8 million in 2007.

So we're talking roughly 4.5% of CA's population is undocumented.

The following has a great breakdown of immigrants, legal and undocumented.

Immigrants in California - Public Policy Institute of California

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I just removed the sentence from my post. I can't find what I believed I previously read. As it stands today I think I must have misread the line about 20%…20% of the immigrant population is undocumented, not 20% of the total population. My apologies for the mistake.

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Thumbs up to you.
At least you are the first to reverse course and correct yourself.

concordtom said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Bass and others said the above was designed to sow terror in the community. She and her ilk are ****ing crazy.

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Now that I read the rest of your post… see, you've already rationalized it.
Because it absolutely is designed to cause a scene. But you can't see that.

From where I'm sitting, you and your ilk are the ones who are ****ing crazy.

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They executed 4 search warrants across Los Angeles - a city of nearly 4 million people. No National Guard or Marines at that point, just ICE lawfully doing its job. That is a very curious way to cause a scene. And what of those search warrants? What a wacky stroke of luck that their mission to cause a scene just happened to result in this lot being captured (plus at least one company that was allegedly forging documents to employ illegals):

Cuong Chanh Phan, a 49-year-old illegal alien from Vietnam. His criminal history includes a conviction for second degree murder and was sentenced to 15 years to life.

Rolando Veneracion-Enriquez, a 55-year-old illegal alien from the Philippines. His criminal history includes burglary in Ontario, CA with a sentence of four years in prison, sexual penetration with a foreign object with force and assault with intent to commit rape in Pomona, CA with a sentence of 37 years in prison.

Lionel Sanchez-Laguna, a 55-year-old illegal alien from Mexico. Sanchez-Laguna's criminal history includes discharging a firearm at an inhabited dwelling and vehicle in Orange, CA with a sentence of 365 days in jail, battery on spouse or cohabitant in Orange, CA with a sentence of four years of probation, willful cruelty to child in Orange, CA with a sentence of four years of probation, driving under the influence in Orange, CA with a sentence of ten days in jail, assault with semi-automatic firearm in Orange, CA with a sentence of three years in prison, and personal use of a firearm in Orange, CA with a sentence of three years in prison.

Armando Ordaz, a 44-year-old illegal alien from Mexico. Ordaz's criminal history includes sexual battery in Los Angeles, CA with a sentence of 135 days of jail and five years of probation, receiving known or stolen property in Norwalk, CA with a sentence of 90 days in jail and three years of probation, and petty theft in Los Angeles, CA with a sentence of 365 days in jail and four years of probation.

Francisco Sanchez-Arguello
ICE arrested Francisco Sanchez-Arguello, a 38-year-old illegal alien from Mexico. Sanchez-Arguello's criminal history that includes arrests for grand theft larceny and possession of a prohibited weapon.

Jose Gregorio Medranda Ortiz, a 42-year-old illegal alien from Ecuador. Medranda Ortiz's criminal history includes conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute five kilograms or more cocaine while on board a vessel in Tampa, FL with a sentence of 135 months in prison.
Image

Victor Mendoza-Aguilar, a 32-year-old illegal alien from Mexico. His criminal history includes a conviction for possessing unlawful paraphernalia in Pasadena, CA with a sentence of 112 days jail, possessing controlled substances in Pasadena, CA with a sentence of 16 months in jail, assault with a deadly weapon: not firearm in Pasadena, CA with a sentence of four years in prison; obstructing a public officer in Pasadena, CA with a sentence of 364 days in jail.

Delfino Aguilar-Martinez, a 51-year-old illegal alien from Mexico. Aguilar-Martinez's criminal history includes assault with a deadly weapon with great bodily injury in Los Angeles, CA with a sentence of 365 days in jail.

Jose Cristobal Hernandez-Buitron
ICE arrested Jose Cristobal Hernandez-Buitron, 43-year-old illegal alien from Peru. Hernandez-Buitron's criminal history that includes a conviction for robbery that resulted in a 10-year sentence.
Image

Jordan Mauricio Meza-Esquibel
ICE arrested Jordan Mauricio Meza-Esquibel, 32-year-old illegal alien from Honduras. Meza-Esquibel's criminal history that includes arrests for distribution of heroin and cocaine and domestic violence.

Jesus Alan Hernandez-Morales, a 26-year-old illegal alien from Mexico. His criminal history includes conspiracy to transport an illegal alien in Las Cruces, NM with a sentence of 239 days in jail.
(source: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/06/08/ice-captures-worst-worst-illegal-alien-criminals-los-angeles-including-murderers)

These are your heroes. Again, there are no constitutional issues here like with the guy deported improperly to the South American prison: lawful search warrant, illegals with criminal histories. So you are substituting Constitutional issues for "causing a scene"??? Wow.


What people should really be seeing is the corollaries here to the BLM "mostly peaceful" protests. How curious that 4 search warrants were executed across this large city yet somehow the protesters were able to mobilize immediately. What a curious coincidence. Almost like they knew in advance or had been organized in advance. Mexican flags, the chants, the correct locations... hmmm.

HKBear97! said:

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I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome.

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I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think large segments of the right wing who are ascendant right now (the Stephen Miller types) want no immigration at all and see this all as a means to that end.

My instincts tell me that polling is very accurate. D's are screwing up by aligning themselves with illegal aliens. Trump is screwing up by being his usual dumb ass provocative a-hole self. If the former could get real about immigration enforcement they'd win because people would appreciate treating immigrants humanely. If the latter could be as serious about enforcing the law in a more humane way he'd win. Neither of them can quite being who they are.