socaltownie said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

Your last point is important. Recently was speaking with a sixth grade teacher at an inner-city public school here n Los Angeles. This past semester they completed their proficiency tests and out of the 160 students she works with only ten were reading/writing at grade level. Ten. The vast majority were at a second/third grade level. That is a problem.

Another point - per my friends in the LAPD narcotics division, drugs and fentanyl supplies have been massively reduced thanks to a more secure border. It's a multi-billion dollar industry, so the cartels will likely find other ways in, but in the interim, it has been a welcome change.

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome. Obviously what we are seeing now is trying to stem the flow, but I sincerely hope the parties come together with a plan to make the legal process more efficient. That should be the focus, not this stupid pissing contest we see day-in/day-out.

---

OK. The problem with this as "research findings" is that we simply do not know the english language skills/assimilations of prior waves of immigrants because we didn't apply standardized tests and in many cases didn't ask them to attend school. I wonder if we did the same testing of Italian immigrants living in the lower east side in the 1890s or the waves of German immigrant children in the 1870s what we would find. Ditto even the Irhh, who in many cases did not speak English but Gaelic.

I think a more complete and fair view of immigration would find that english proficiency really takes until Generation 3 and that if we then controlled for income we would find little to no differences in proficiency.

---

This is completely anecdotal, but I have a sense it's somewhat representative of the times. My mother's parents were part of a very large family cohort who immigrated to the Bay Area from Italy around 1910 and settled in what was then a large Italian community around 40th and Telegraph in Oakland. She was born here in 1922. My Italian born grandparents didn't learn English until they got here, but by the time I knew them had no accent. A few of their siblings had accents, but were completely fluent. Although they knew a few Italian words, no one in my mother's generation was fluent in Italian. When I asked her why, she said they would have been embarrassed if they couldn't speak English.

sycasey said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome.

---

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think large segments of the right wing who are ascendant right now (the Stephen Miller types) want no immigration at all and see this all as a means to that end.

---

Yeah I don't want any immigration for 5 years. Then ramping it up 50,000 per year. The US has grown way to fast that nothing has a chance to catch up. If we have a labor shortage in ag for example we can do temporary visas. H1B visas and the like should not exist at all. Companies that want to be in the US need to use US labor. That means training when needed.

sycasey said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome.

---

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think large segments of the right wing who are ascendant right now (the Stephen Miller types) want no immigration at all and see this all as a means to that end.

---

We all run in particular circles, which makes it anecdotal. But I have never heard - not once - an every day conservative person express that type of opinion. If anything I've heard very uncomfortable for me talk (bordering on racism) about not wanting to lose their cheap gardeners type talk.

The cost of the Apprentice inspired Team Projects are getting more expensive:

The deployment of National Guard troops and Marines to Los Angeles will cost at least $134 million and last at least the next 60 days, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and a senior defense official told lawmakers Tuesday.

https://abc7news.com/post/la-protests-los-angeles-deployment-cost-least-134-million-last-60-days-pentagon-says/16714751/

*I am sure that in the Trumpian tradition of low balling costs/losses and high balling gains/revenues, that the the $134M cost estimate is bullsh@it squared.

tequila4kapp said:

---

sycasey said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome.

---

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think large segments of the right wing who are ascendant right now (the Stephen Miller types) want no immigration at all and see this all as a means to that end.

---

We all run in particular circles, which makes it anecdotal. But I have never heard - not once - an every day conservative person express that type of opinion. If anything I've heard very uncomfortable for me talk (bordering on racism) about not wanting to lose their cheap gardeners type talk.

---

I'm guessing your social circle is not filled with the Stephen Miller types.

HKBear97! said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

I think a more complete and fair view of immigration would find that english proficiency really takes until Generation 3 and that if we then controlled for income we would find little to no differences in proficiency.

---

Yes, but now we do have organized education and more importantly today's economy is not the same. If we want any of these children to succeed and prosper in this country, they will need to be able to read and write. Otherwise, we are setting them up for failure - forced into un-skilled, poorly paid labor that will continue to be exploited. As movielover pointed out, the system is not equipped to handle this level of immigration.

And I disagree on your point about English proficiency taking three generations. I personally know numerous Chinese and Vietnamese immigrants that arrived here (legally) as children without any language skills that today are proficient in English and economically successful.

---

In my family it was broken English speaking immigrant > functionally illiterate 2nd generation > college educated 3rd gen (me). I wonder if there's something cultural at play akin to what we see with the Asian population and college admissions.

And for the descendants of the chattel slavery… not so much to not at all but not because they wanted to keep USA pure white or something to that effect

We have different American story that is denied hence why this dynamic exists. Every single part of America is interwoven with Race/Racism

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Yeah I don't want any immigration for 5 years. Then ramping it up 50,000 per year. The US has grown way to fast that nothing has a chance to catch up. If we have a labor shortage in ag for example we can do temporary visas. H1B visas and the like should not exist at all. Companies that want to be in the US need to use US labor. That means training when needed.

---

Easier said than done.

Are you aware that there already is a labor shortage in the U.S. manufacturing sector?

Deloitte says that manufacturers could need as many as 3.8 million new workers by 2033.
Roughly 1.9 million of those could go unfilled if current gaps remain unsolved.

What is the Trump Administration doing to remedy this?
Besides waving a magic "fantasy" wand?

Manufacturing could be short 1.9M workers if the talent gap isn't fixed | Manufacturing Dive

Understanding America's Labor Shortage: The Most Impacted Industries | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

tequila4kapp said:

---

sycasey said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome.

---

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think large segments of the right wing who are ascendant right now (the Stephen Miller types) want no immigration at all and see this all as a means to that end.

---

We all run in particular circles, which makes it anecdotal. But I have never heard - not once - an every day conservative person express that type of opinion.

---

Read the post just above yours which has MinotStateBeav saying he wants no immigration for 5 years then very very limited immigration after that.

Yep. The timing couldn't have been more perfect...

dajo9 said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

About time. Anyone watching these idiots on the streets? So many are not peaceful protesters - they are showing up with padding, helmets, goggles, masks, backpacks with who knows what - they are anarchists taking advantage of the chaos. Last night it was basically just looting, not protesting. Enough is enough. I'm all for peaceful protests and those are absolutely welcome and needed in our society. What many of these morons are doing is not that and they should be arrested as domestic terrorists.

---

Terrorists - lol

Yes, the state and locals should arrest them. Many of them will be arrested.

The Feds should have nothing to do with it.

---

Not terrorists then? How would you describe those individuals that participate dressed/equipped that way?

Per my friends in LAPD, over the last few days pallets of bricks have been left on sidewalks near downtown - obviously a coordinated effort is happening.

DiabloWags said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Yeah I don't want any immigration for 5 years. Then ramping it up 50,000 per year. The US has grown way to fast that nothing has a chance to catch up. If we have a labor shortage in ag for example we can do temporary visas. H1B visas and the like should not exist at all. Companies that want to be in the US need to use US labor. That means training when needed.

---

Easier said than done.

Are you aware that there already is a labor shortage in the U.S. manufacturing sector?

Deloitte says that manufacturers could need as many as 3.8 million new workers by 2033.
Roughly 1.9 million of those could go unfilled if current gaps remain unsolved.

What is the Trump Administration doing to remedy this?
Besides waving a magic "fantasy" wand?

Manufacturing could be short 1.9M workers if the talent gap isn't fixed | Manufacturing Dive

Understanding America's Labor Shortage: The Most Impacted Industries | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

---

Everything that is a labor shortage is manufactured. We have a huge amount of non-counted unemployed in this nation. Labor shortages could be easily fixed if there was a real attempt at training people to perform the jobs. That would require effort on the part of the businesses.

tequila4kapp said:

---

Yep. The timing couldn't have been more perfect...

---

yeah well we all have a different idea of what immigration should be going forward. But everybody knows what has been going on isn't sustainable.

HKBear97! said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

About time. Anyone watching these idiots on the streets? So many are not peaceful protesters - they are showing up with padding, helmets, goggles, masks, backpacks with who knows what - they are anarchists taking advantage of the chaos. Last night it was basically just looting, not protesting. Enough is enough. I'm all for peaceful protests and those are absolutely welcome and needed in our society. What many of these morons are doing is not that and they should be arrested as domestic terrorists.

---

Terrorists - lol

Yes, the state and locals should arrest them. Many of them will be arrested.

The Feds should have nothing to do with it.

---

Not terrorists then? How would you describe those individuals that participate dressed/equipped that way?

Per my friends in LAPD, over the last few days pallets of bricks have been left on sidewalks near downtown - obviously a coordinated effort is happening.

---

The vast majority on the streets are peaceful protesters. There are some criminal vandals, looters, thieves, arsonists. State and local crimes.

There were reports yesterday the FBI/DOJ are investigating conspiracy activities. TBD. (I wondered about RICO...couldn't remember the elements so I went and looked it up. No dice. )

sycasey said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

sycasey said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome.

---

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think large segments of the right wing who are ascendant right now (the Stephen Miller types) want no immigration at all and see this all as a means to that end.

---

We all run in particular circles, which makes it anecdotal. But I have never heard - not once - an every day conservative person express that type of opinion. If anything I've heard very uncomfortable for me talk (bordering on racism) about not wanting to lose their cheap gardeners type talk.

---

I'm guessing your social circle is not filled with the Stephen Miller types.

---

Will second the anecdote from tequila4kapp. In my circle which includes liberals and conservatives across the spectrum, everyone agrees legal immigration is beneficial and needed. Surprisingly, even my most super liberal friends agree that illegal immigration needs to be addressed. It's about the only thing they agree with this administration on!

MinotStateBeav said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Yeah I don't want any immigration for 5 years. Then ramping it up 50,000 per year. The US has grown way to fast that nothing has a chance to catch up. If we have a labor shortage in ag for example we can do temporary visas. H1B visas and the like should not exist at all. Companies that want to be in the US need to use US labor. That means training when needed.

---

Easier said than done.

Are you aware that there already is a labor shortage in the U.S. manufacturing sector?

Deloitte says that manufacturers could need as many as 3.8 million new workers by 2033.
Roughly 1.9 million of those could go unfilled if current gaps remain unsolved.

What is the Trump Administration doing to remedy this?
Besides waving a magic "fantasy" wand?

Manufacturing could be short 1.9M workers if the talent gap isn't fixed | Manufacturing Dive

Understanding America's Labor Shortage: The Most Impacted Industries | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

---

Everything that is a labor shortage is manufactured. We have a huge amount of non-counted unemployed in this nation. Labor shortages could be easily fixed if there was a real attempt at training people to perform the jobs. That would require effort on the part of the businesses.

---

Contrary to what Trump's Secretary of Commerce Lutnick claims, it's not as easy as simply screwing in "millions of screws into an iPhone"

There's a good reason why the majority of iPhones are assembled in China.
Skilled technical labor and tooling.

Wall Street Journal (that leftist rag) reporting that the Trump Admin (Miller specifically) was giving unofficial orders for ICE to do random sweeps. Not targeted at specific known criminals at all. This is why there were protests.

They aren't writing anything down to avoid incriminating themselves. https://t.co/mhBN9MJEOT pic.twitter.com/RvrzGdROmw

— David J. Bier (@David_J_Bier) June 10, 2025

HKBear97! said:

---

sycasey said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

sycasey said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome.

---

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think large segments of the right wing who are ascendant right now (the Stephen Miller types) want no immigration at all and see this all as a means to that end.

---

We all run in particular circles, which makes it anecdotal. But I have never heard - not once - an every day conservative person express that type of opinion. If anything I've heard very uncomfortable for me talk (bordering on racism) about not wanting to lose their cheap gardeners type talk.

---

I'm guessing your social circle is not filled with the Stephen Miller types.

---

Will second the anecdote from tequila4kapp. In my circle which includes liberals and conservatives across the spectrum, everyone agrees legal immigration is beneficial and needed. Surprisingly, even my most super liberal friends agree that illegal immigration needs to be addressed. It's about the only thing they agree with this administration on!

---

You do realize that the majority of labor in the kitchen of a restaurant in the Bay Area is undocumented right?

And those people are paying social security that they'll never ever see.

So what's your solution?

In the 2020 census, U.S. population growth was 7.4% The only time it was ever recorded to be lower was 1940 - amidst the Great Depression decade when it was 7.3%. Since 2020, the U.S. population is estimated to have grown 4.7%.

People try so hard to not say what they mean. What they mean is they don't like all the non-white people around.

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/dec/popchange-data-text.html
https://populationtoday.com/us-united-states/

DiabloWags said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Yeah I don't want any immigration for 5 years. Then ramping it up 50,000 per year. The US has grown way to fast that nothing has a chance to catch up. If we have a labor shortage in ag for example we can do temporary visas. H1B visas and the like should not exist at all. Companies that want to be in the US need to use US labor. That means training when needed.

---

Easier said than done.

Are you aware that there already is a labor shortage in the U.S. manufacturing sector?

Deloitte says that manufacturers could need as many as 3.8 million new workers by 2033.
Roughly 1.9 million of those could go unfilled if current gaps remain unsolved.

What is the Trump Administration doing to remedy this?
Besides waving a magic "fantasy" wand?

Manufacturing could be short 1.9M workers if the talent gap isn't fixed | Manufacturing Dive

Understanding America's Labor Shortage: The Most Impacted Industries | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

---

Everything that is a labor shortage is manufactured. We have a huge amount of non-counted unemployed in this nation. Labor shortages could be easily fixed if there was a real attempt at training people to perform the jobs. That would require effort on the part of the businesses.

---

Contrary to what Trump's Secretary of Commerce Lutnick claims, it's not as easy as simply screwing in "millions of screws into an iPhone"

There's a good reason why the majority of iPhones are assembled in China.
Skilled technical labor and tooling.

---

The unemployed could have been snatching up jobs in landscaping, construction and agriculture for years. They haven't. I doubt that offering training will motivate more than a small percentage of the unemployed. The ones that could get helped by training have likely already been finding their way into other fields of employment.

dajo9 said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

About time. Anyone watching these idiots on the streets? So many are not peaceful protesters - they are showing up with padding, helmets, goggles, masks, backpacks with who knows what - they are anarchists taking advantage of the chaos. Last night it was basically just looting, not protesting. Enough is enough. I'm all for peaceful protests and those are absolutely welcome and needed in our society. What many of these morons are doing is not that and they should be arrested as domestic terrorists.

---

Terrorists - lol

Yes, the state and locals should arrest them. Many of them will be arrested.

The Feds should have nothing to do with it.

---

Not terrorists then? How would you describe those individuals that participate dressed/equipped that way?

Per my friends in LAPD, over the last few days pallets of bricks have been left on sidewalks near downtown - obviously a coordinated effort is happening.

---

The vast majority on the streets are peaceful protesters. There are some criminal vandals, looters, thieves, arsonists. State and local crimes.

---

Yes, like I said, the peaceful protesters are great - wonderful use of our first amendment right. But there are more than "some" using unlawful violence and intimidation in pursuit of anarchy and/or the destruction of government property, personnel and operations - otherwise known as terrorism.

HKBear97! said:

---

sycasey said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

sycasey said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome.

---

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think large segments of the right wing who are ascendant right now (the Stephen Miller types) want no immigration at all and see this all as a means to that end.

---

We all run in particular circles, which makes it anecdotal. But I have never heard - not once - an every day conservative person express that type of opinion. If anything I've heard very uncomfortable for me talk (bordering on racism) about not wanting to lose their cheap gardeners type talk.

---

I'm guessing your social circle is not filled with the Stephen Miller types.

---

Will second the anecdote from tequila4kapp. In my circle which includes liberals and conservatives across the spectrum, everyone agrees legal immigration is beneficial and needed. Surprisingly, even my most super liberal friends agree that illegal immigration needs to be addressed. It's about the only thing they agree with this administration on!

---

The real issue is what is considered legal immigration. When Trump was calling the Haitians in Ohio, illegal aliens, even though they were legally in the country he was purposefully being misleading. Once in power he changed their status from legal to illegal.

Trump will revoke green cards, visas, and even birthright citizenship if the courts let him. Then all these people become illegal. I am against illegal immigration. I am against the approach Trump is taking of illegalizing legal immigration. I am against deporting people that grew up in this country even if they came here illegally.

I am in favor of ending birthright citizenship but unlike lawless magats, I understand that would take a constitutional amendment.

I am in favor of severely restricting amnesty but unlike lawless magats, I understand that would take an act of Congress.

dajo9 said:

---

In the 2020 census, U.S. population growth was 7.4% The only time it was ever recorded to be lower was 1940 - amidst the Great Depression decade when it was 7.3%. Since 2020, the U.S. population is estimated to have grown 4.7%.

People try so hard to not say what they mean. What they mean is they don't like all the non-white people around.

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/dec/popchange-data-text.html
https://populationtoday.com/us-united-states/

---

Some of them actually are just saying what they mean now.

Multiculturalism is a failure.

— Charlie Kirk (@charliekirk11) June 9, 2025

Ban all third world immigration. Legal or illegal. There should be a moratorium on all immigration from the third world. We've reached our capacity. We cannot be the world's soup kitchen anymore.

— Matt Walsh (@MattWalshBlog) June 9, 2025

HKBear97! said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

The vast majority on the streets are peaceful protesters. There are some criminal vandals, looters, thieves, arsonists. State and local crimes.

---

Yes, like I said, the peaceful protesters are great - wonderful use of our first amendment right. But there are more than "some" using unlawful violence and intimidation in pursuit of anarchy and/or the destruction of government property, personnel and operations - otherwise known as terrorism.

---

You mean like the January 6th crowd that were called "patriots" by Trump and pardoned by him?

DiabloWags said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

sycasey said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

sycasey said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome.

---

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think large segments of the right wing who are ascendant right now (the Stephen Miller types) want no immigration at all and see this all as a means to that end.

---

We all run in particular circles, which makes it anecdotal. But I have never heard - not once - an every day conservative person express that type of opinion. If anything I've heard very uncomfortable for me talk (bordering on racism) about not wanting to lose their cheap gardeners type talk.

---

I'm guessing your social circle is not filled with the Stephen Miller types.

---

Will second the anecdote from tequila4kapp. In my circle which includes liberals and conservatives across the spectrum, everyone agrees legal immigration is beneficial and needed. Surprisingly, even my most super liberal friends agree that illegal immigration needs to be addressed. It's about the only thing they agree with this administration on!

---

You do realize that the majority of labor in the kitchen of a restaurant in the Bay Area is undocumented right?

And those people are paying social security that they'll never ever see.

So what's your solution?

---

I grew up in Southern California. I worked part-time in the garment industry growing up - of course I know how important illegal immigrants are to our economy. That's a given.

As for a solution, the three main pillars are the following: 1. Secure our borders to stem the flow of illegal immigration, 2. Add resources and improve the efficiency of the legal process to seek entry/employment/citizenship (includes work visas, the bracero program, etc.) 3. Establish a process for those already here to establish citizenship. I realize it's easily said and difficult to implement, but if our politicians could stop being non-compromising blowhards then these broad initiatives could be implemented.

HKBear97! said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

About time. Anyone watching these idiots on the streets? So many are not peaceful protesters - they are showing up with padding, helmets, goggles, masks, backpacks with who knows what - they are anarchists taking advantage of the chaos. Last night it was basically just looting, not protesting. Enough is enough. I'm all for peaceful protests and those are absolutely welcome and needed in our society. What many of these morons are doing is not that and they should be arrested as domestic terrorists.

---

Terrorists - lol

Yes, the state and locals should arrest them. Many of them will be arrested.

The Feds should have nothing to do with it.

---

Not terrorists then? How would you describe those individuals that participate dressed/equipped that way?

Per my friends in LAPD, over the last few days pallets of bricks have been left on sidewalks near downtown - obviously a coordinated effort is happening.

---

The vast majority on the streets are peaceful protesters. There are some criminal vandals, looters, thieves, arsonists. State and local crimes.

---

Yes, like I said, the peaceful protesters are great - wonderful use of our first amendment right. But there are more than "some" using unlawful violence and intimidation in pursuit of anarchy and/or the destruction of government property, personnel and operations - otherwise known as terrorism.

---

I was in Manhattan on 9/11. You don't have a clue about terrorism.

HKBear97! said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

sycasey said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

sycasey said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome.

---

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think large segments of the right wing who are ascendant right now (the Stephen Miller types) want no immigration at all and see this all as a means to that end.

---

We all run in particular circles, which makes it anecdotal. But I have never heard - not once - an every day conservative person express that type of opinion. If anything I've heard very uncomfortable for me talk (bordering on racism) about not wanting to lose their cheap gardeners type talk.

---

I'm guessing your social circle is not filled with the Stephen Miller types.

---

Will second the anecdote from tequila4kapp. In my circle which includes liberals and conservatives across the spectrum, everyone agrees legal immigration is beneficial and needed. Surprisingly, even my most super liberal friends agree that illegal immigration needs to be addressed. It's about the only thing they agree with this administration on!

---

You do realize that the majority of labor in the kitchen of a restaurant in the Bay Area is undocumented right?

And those people are paying social security that they'll never ever see.

So what's your solution?

---

I grew up in Southern California. I worked part-time in the garment industry growing up - of course I know how important illegal immigrants are to our economy. That's a given.

As for a solution, the three main pillars are the following: 1. Secure our borders to stem the flow of illegal immigration, 2. Add resources and improve the efficiency of the legal process to seek entry/employment/citizenship (includes work visas, the bracero program, etc.) 3. Establish a process for those already here to establish citizenship. I realize it's easily said and difficult to implement, but if our politicians could stop being non-compromising blowhards then these broad initiatives could be implemented.

---

Basically what President Biden tried to pass last year and Republicans blocked.

dajo9 said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

sycasey said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

sycasey said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome.

---

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think large segments of the right wing who are ascendant right now (the Stephen Miller types) want no immigration at all and see this all as a means to that end.

---

We all run in particular circles, which makes it anecdotal. But I have never heard - not once - an every day conservative person express that type of opinion. If anything I've heard very uncomfortable for me talk (bordering on racism) about not wanting to lose their cheap gardeners type talk.

---

I'm guessing your social circle is not filled with the Stephen Miller types.

---

Will second the anecdote from tequila4kapp. In my circle which includes liberals and conservatives across the spectrum, everyone agrees legal immigration is beneficial and needed. Surprisingly, even my most super liberal friends agree that illegal immigration needs to be addressed. It's about the only thing they agree with this administration on!

---

The real issue is what is considered legal immigration. When Trump was calling the Haitians in Ohio, illegal aliens, even though they were legally in the country he was purposefully being misleading. Once in power he changed their status from legal to illegal.

Trump will revoke green cards, visas, and even birthright citizenship if the courts let him. Then all these people become illegal. I am against illegal immigration. I am against the approach Trump is taking of illegalizing legal immigration. I am against deporting people that grew up in this country even if they came here illegally.

I am in favor of ending birthright citizenship but unlike lawless magats, I understand that would take a constitutional amendment.

I am in favor of severely restricting amnesty but unlike lawless magats, I understand that would take an act of Congress.

---

I believe most Americans share these views. Unfortunately Trump is the result of the pendulum shifting too far to the right after having shifted too far to the left. This is the problem with political dialogue in this country. I actually hope Elon Musk follows through on his idea of funding a third party that represents the 80% of us in the middle. I would gladly support that!

DiabloWags said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Yeah I don't want any immigration for 5 years. Then ramping it up 50,000 per year. The US has grown way to fast that nothing has a chance to catch up. If we have a labor shortage in ag for example we can do temporary visas. H1B visas and the like should not exist at all. Companies that want to be in the US need to use US labor. That means training when needed.

---

Easier said than done.

Are you aware that there already is a labor shortage in the U.S. manufacturing sector?

Deloitte says that manufacturers could need as many as 3.8 million new workers by 2033.
Roughly 1.9 million of those could go unfilled if current gaps remain unsolved.

What is the Trump Administration doing to remedy this?
Besides waving a magic "fantasy" wand?

Manufacturing could be short 1.9M workers if the talent gap isn't fixed | Manufacturing Dive

Understanding America's Labor Shortage: The Most Impacted Industries | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

---

Minot never does his homework, so no, he doesn't know those things.

MAGATs, let's just let them reside in SD and build the wall

VOTE BLUE

Go Bears Forever

dajo9 said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

sycasey said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

sycasey said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome.

---

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think large segments of the right wing who are ascendant right now (the Stephen Miller types) want no immigration at all and see this all as a means to that end.

---

We all run in particular circles, which makes it anecdotal. But I have never heard - not once - an every day conservative person express that type of opinion. If anything I've heard very uncomfortable for me talk (bordering on racism) about not wanting to lose their cheap gardeners type talk.

---

I'm guessing your social circle is not filled with the Stephen Miller types.

---

Will second the anecdote from tequila4kapp. In my circle which includes liberals and conservatives across the spectrum, everyone agrees legal immigration is beneficial and needed. Surprisingly, even my most super liberal friends agree that illegal immigration needs to be addressed. It's about the only thing they agree with this administration on!

---

You do realize that the majority of labor in the kitchen of a restaurant in the Bay Area is undocumented right?

And those people are paying social security that they'll never ever see.

So what's your solution?

---

I grew up in Southern California. I worked part-time in the garment industry growing up - of course I know how important illegal immigrants are to our economy. That's a given.

As for a solution, the three main pillars are the following: 1. Secure our borders to stem the flow of illegal immigration, 2. Add resources and improve the efficiency of the legal process to seek entry/employment/citizenship (includes work visas, the bracero program, etc.) 3. Establish a process for those already here to establish citizenship. I realize it's easily said and difficult to implement, but if our politicians could stop being non-compromising blowhards then these broad initiatives could be implemented.

---

Basically what President Biden tried to pass last year and Republicans blocked.

---

Putting aside the broader political issues going on at that time that killed it (Ukraine aid, election, etc. and note six Democrats in the senate voted to filibuster the bill as well), there were issues with that bill, but definitely on the right track.

dajo9 said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

sycasey said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

sycasey said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome.

---

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think large segments of the right wing who are ascendant right now (the Stephen Miller types) want no immigration at all and see this all as a means to that end.

---

We all run in particular circles, which makes it anecdotal. But I have never heard - not once - an every day conservative person express that type of opinion. If anything I've heard very uncomfortable for me talk (bordering on racism) about not wanting to lose their cheap gardeners type talk.

---

I'm guessing your social circle is not filled with the Stephen Miller types.

---

Will second the anecdote from tequila4kapp. In my circle which includes liberals and conservatives across the spectrum, everyone agrees legal immigration is beneficial and needed. Surprisingly, even my most super liberal friends agree that illegal immigration needs to be addressed. It's about the only thing they agree with this administration on!

---

You do realize that the majority of labor in the kitchen of a restaurant in the Bay Area is undocumented right?

And those people are paying social security that they'll never ever see.

So what's your solution?

---

I grew up in Southern California. I worked part-time in the garment industry growing up - of course I know how important illegal immigrants are to our economy. That's a given.

As for a solution, the three main pillars are the following: 1. Secure our borders to stem the flow of illegal immigration, 2. Add resources and improve the efficiency of the legal process to seek entry/employment/citizenship (includes work visas, the bracero program, etc.) 3. Establish a process for those already here to establish citizenship. I realize it's easily said and difficult to implement, but if our politicians could stop being non-compromising blowhards then these broad initiatives could be implemented.

---

Basically what President Biden tried to pass last year and Republicans blocked.

---

Also what Obama tried to pass during his term and Republicans blocked.

HKBear97! said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

sycasey said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

sycasey said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

I think nearly everyone agrees, legal migration is needed and welcome.

---

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think large segments of the right wing who are ascendant right now (the Stephen Miller types) want no immigration at all and see this all as a means to that end.

---

We all run in particular circles, which makes it anecdotal. But I have never heard - not once - an every day conservative person express that type of opinion. If anything I've heard very uncomfortable for me talk (bordering on racism) about not wanting to lose their cheap gardeners type talk.

---

I'm guessing your social circle is not filled with the Stephen Miller types.

---

Will second the anecdote from tequila4kapp. In my circle which includes liberals and conservatives across the spectrum, everyone agrees legal immigration is beneficial and needed. Surprisingly, even my most super liberal friends agree that illegal immigration needs to be addressed. It's about the only thing they agree with this administration on!

---

You do realize that the majority of labor in the kitchen of a restaurant in the Bay Area is undocumented right?

And those people are paying social security that they'll never ever see.

So what's your solution?

---

I grew up in Southern California. I worked part-time in the garment industry growing up - of course I know how important illegal immigrants are to our economy. That's a given.

As for a solution, the three main pillars are the following: 1. Secure our borders to stem the flow of illegal immigration, 2. Add resources and improve the efficiency of the legal process to seek entry/employment/citizenship (includes work visas, the bracero program, etc.) 3. Establish a process for those already here to establish citizenship. I realize it's easily said and difficult to implement, but if our politicians could stop being non-compromising blowhards then these broad initiatives could be implemented.

---

If 2 and 3 couldn't happen under Obama or Biden, they are definitely not happening under Trump.

dajo9 said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

About time. Anyone watching these idiots on the streets? So many are not peaceful protesters - they are showing up with padding, helmets, goggles, masks, backpacks with who knows what - they are anarchists taking advantage of the chaos. Last night it was basically just looting, not protesting. Enough is enough. I'm all for peaceful protests and those are absolutely welcome and needed in our society. What many of these morons are doing is not that and they should be arrested as domestic terrorists.

---

Terrorists - lol

Yes, the state and locals should arrest them. Many of them will be arrested.

The Feds should have nothing to do with it.

---

Not terrorists then? How would you describe those individuals that participate dressed/equipped that way?

Per my friends in LAPD, over the last few days pallets of bricks have been left on sidewalks near downtown - obviously a coordinated effort is happening.

---

The vast majority on the streets are peaceful protesters. There are some criminal vandals, looters, thieves, arsonists. State and local crimes.

---

Yes, like I said, the peaceful protesters are great - wonderful use of our first amendment right. But there are more than "some" using unlawful violence and intimidation in pursuit of anarchy and/or the destruction of government property, personnel and operations - otherwise known as terrorism.

---

I was in Manhattan on 9/11. You don't have a clue about terrorism.

---

Just when I thought we were having a constructive dialogue. Agree to disagree here.