going4roses said:

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Cal88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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concordtom said:

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I thought Trump was supposed to be a great negotiator who would stop armed conflicts.

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You thought wrong.
And the MAGA crowd is also having a total MELT DOWN on this.
What happened to "America First" and staying out of everyone else's business?

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Only a supremely weak President would let Israel force us into war. So it will probably happen.

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That kind of describes every US president this century.

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This century? Or practically all of them that have been selected for that title

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Both Reagan and Bush Sr. did rein in their neocons.

Reagan withdrew US troops from Lebanon after the Marines compound bombing, and GHWB kept Israeli PM Shamir in check, he was the last POTUS who wasn't subservient to Israel.

NEW: US officials tell Reuters Israel recently informed Washington it had an opportunity to assassinate Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, but President Donald Trump ***rejected*** the plan

— Election Wizard (@ElectionWiz) June 15, 2025

DiabloWags said:

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movielover said:

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Israel may already have the bunker buster bomb. Why would close partners agree to go halfway?

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This might be your most "common sense" post of the year.

"This is not a symbolic strike," said Mark Dubowitz, who heads the think tank Foundation for Defense of Democracies.

"Its a decapitation campaign targeting Iran's nuclear brain trust and command infrastructure."

Regime change will be in the air after this.

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I think you're both wrong.

My understanding is that Israel currently does not have a large bomber plane that can drop the GBU-57 bunker buster bomb. So it is not as simple as giving Israel the bunker busters and that is why Israel would want/need to have the US do so.

Barring an attack on the US by Iran, I highly doubt Trump will allow a US plane to drop a bomb. Certainly he won't do that any time soon and unless/until the Israelis fail to crack the nut.

The Israeli's no doubt have a back up plan, but it likely will require more time and more risk than just dropping the GBU-57. My guess is that if a diplomatic resolution is not reached and the US does not drop a bunker buster and the Iran regime does not crater, then at some point Israeli commandos will land and take Fordow and other sites by force. Keep in mind that they cannot bomb the sites with uranium w/o creating a dirty bomb. So in the meantime, they will continue to bomb/degrade Iran.

Chapman_is_Gone said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Because Israel has nuclear weapons they don't; because Israel is backed by US firepower and because Israel can bomb their capital and kill their leadership at it's will.

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"its" not "it's." Did you go to Cal?

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You wrote: "As I've mentioned above, Israel is very thin in terms of its air defense capabilities, and what's worse for them is that even with their well-stocked starting installations, they can't seem to stop the higher end Iranian hypersonics..."

It's allegedly worse than that. MacGregor recently claimed:

- that Iran is currently sending their older missiles over to deplete the Israeli Air defense / Patriot / other systems
- Iran is holding back their most powerful missiles until Israel's defensive systems are depleted
- Iran has a near limitless supply of missiles, including possible help from Pakistan, Russia, China, NK, and Turkey
- Turkey has a million man army ready to go, the largest in the region
- American Naval ships have already helped to shoot down some missiles headed towards Israel
- Israel using potential nuclear weapons on immediate neighbors not the best idea, have they thought this through?

Epic post, reflects what I said above about the battle within the GOP between warmonging neocons and patriots. If people like Bernie Sanders were really antiwar, they would support that message:

Everyone is finding out who are real America First/MAGA and who were fake and just said it bc it was popular.

Unfortunately the list of fakes are becoming quite long and exposed themselves quickly.

Anyone slobbering for the U.S. to become fully involved in the Israel/Iran war…

— Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene🇺🇸 (@RepMTG) June 15, 2025

"Everyone is finding out who are real America First/MAGA and who were fake and just said it bc it was popular.

Unfortunately the list of fakes are becoming quite long and exposed themselves quickly.

Anyone slobbering for the U.S. to become fully involved in the Israel/Iran war is not America First/MAGA.

Wishing for murder of innocent people is disgusting.

We are sick and tired of foreign wars. All of them.

And this one will quickly engulf the Middle East, BRICS, and NATO as countries are required to take a side.

Real America First/MAGA wants world peace for all people and doesn't want our military killed and forever injured physically and mentally.

We love our U.S. military and love them helping to secure our borders and our cities for the defense of OUR PEOPLE AND OUR COUNTRY.

They are our friends, spouses, cousins, nieces, nephews, sisters, brothers, sons, and daughters.

We have spent TRILLIONS in the Middle East and we have dealt with the aftermath of death, blown apart bodies, never ending suicides, and disabling PTSD.

All because they told us propaganda as to why we must sacrifice our own to defend some other country's borders and some other country's borders.

I don't want to see Israel bombed or Iran bombed or Gaza bombed.

I don't want to see Ukraine bombed or Russia bombed.

And we do NOT want to be involved or required to pay for ANY OF IT!!!

We are $36+ TRILLION in debt and have mountains of our own problems.

We have giant planks sticking out of our own eyes while we complain about splinters in other's eyes.

Every country involved and all over the world can be happy, successful, and rich if we all work together and seek peace and prosperity.

Taking this position is NOT antisemitic.

It's rational, sane, and loving toward all people.

Taking this position of peace and prosperity for all is not isolationism, it leads to GREAT trade deals and GREAT economies that help ALL PEOPLE.

It's what many Americans voted for in 2024.

America First!
America First!!
America First!!!

That is how we Make America Great Again!!!!!

Cal88 said:

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Epic post, reflects what I said above about the battle within the GOP between warmonging neocons and patriots. If people like Bernie Sanders were really antiwar, they would support that message:

Taking this position of peace and prosperity for all is not isolationism, it leads to GREAT trade deals and GREAT economies that help ALL PEOPLE.

It's what many Americans voted for in 2024.

America First!
America First!!
America First!!!

That is how we Make America Great Again!!!!!

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MJT and the other MAGATS got duped.
Did you get duped too?

Shocker.

Cal88 said:

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Epic post, reflects what I said above about the battle within the GOP between warmonging neocons and patriots. If people like Bernie Sanders were really antiwar, they would support that message:

Everyone is finding out who are real America First/MAGA and who were fake and just said it bc it was popular.

Unfortunately the list of fakes are becoming quite long and exposed themselves quickly.

Anyone slobbering for the U.S. to become fully involved in the Israel/Iran war…

— Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene🇺🇸 (@RepMTG) June 15, 2025

"Everyone is finding out who are real America First/MAGA and who were fake and just said it bc it was popular.

Unfortunately the list of fakes are becoming quite long and exposed themselves quickly.

Anyone slobbering for the U.S. to become fully involved in the Israel/Iran war is not America First/MAGA.

Wishing for murder of innocent people is disgusting.

We are sick and tired of foreign wars. All of them.

And this one will quickly engulf the Middle East, BRICS, and NATO as countries are required to take a side.

Real America First/MAGA wants world peace for all people and doesn't want our military killed and forever injured physically and mentally.

We love our U.S. military and love them helping to secure our borders and our cities for the defense of OUR PEOPLE AND OUR COUNTRY.

They are our friends, spouses, cousins, nieces, nephews, sisters, brothers, sons, and daughters.

We have spent TRILLIONS in the Middle East and we have dealt with the aftermath of death, blown apart bodies, never ending suicides, and disabling PTSD.

All because they told us propaganda as to why we must sacrifice our own to defend some other country's borders and some other country's borders.

I don't want to see Israel bombed or Iran bombed or Gaza bombed.

I don't want to see Ukraine bombed or Russia bombed.

And we do NOT want to be involved or required to pay for ANY OF IT!!!

We are $36+ TRILLION in debt and have mountains of our own problems.

We have giant planks sticking out of our own eyes while we complain about splinters in other's eyes.

Every country involved and all over the world can be happy, successful, and rich if we all work together and seek peace and prosperity.

Taking this position is NOT antisemitic.

It's rational, sane, and loving toward all people.

Taking this position of peace and prosperity for all is not isolationism, it leads to GREAT trade deals and GREAT economies that help ALL PEOPLE.

It's what many Americans voted for in 2024.

America First!
America First!!
America First!!!

That is how we Make America Great Again!!!!!

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She is an idiot

It's great to see that Israel has absolute air supremacy over Iran and can fly F-15s and F-16s comfortably over Iran and attack anything at will. Meanwhile, there's someone very high up in the Iranian regime giving up the locations of all key govt officials.

Israel now preventing Israelis from leaving Israel.

Get that: Israel has decided to launch an international effort to bring in Israelis stuck abroad since the closure of the country's airspace.

But Israel is not allowing aviation companies to book flights out of the country. They are saying it is meant to 'avoid crowding in TLV…

— Alon Mizrahi (@alon_mizrahi) June 16, 2025

Rarely agree with Bernie, but yes pic.twitter.com/SYDopoVPSP

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) June 16, 2025

The US has an absolute national interest in preventing Iran from having nukes. It must be prevented, even if that means some level of military engagement. I am probably the only person here with an active duty kid (and one who may or may not be scheduled to deploy to the region) - nobody wants peace more than me. But Iran must be stopped.

Cal88 said:

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I would assume that Iran would have hundreds of launchers, I am not sure if that item really is a bottleneck in their operations. I don't think as well that they are throwing their kitchen sink into this, Israel being a nuclear power.

We will soon find out if your assumptions are correct.

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As usual, your assumptions and conclusions are incorrect.

The lack of launchers is a massive part of the bottleneck. Israel is hugely focused on destroying the launchers, because Iran's strategy is to overwhelm Israeli defenses with simultaneous launches. That is why the daily decrease in Iran missile launches is both meaningful and revealing.

And LMAO at the argument that Iran is pulling punches. Israel has complete control of the country's airways and escalation dominance. Iran has no third party country coming to its aid. Yet you think the Mullahs are not fighting as if the existence of their regime is not at stake? OK.

And your continued citation to Macgregor is pretty funny. He's been wrong on pretty much everything, particularly with regard to Israel and Iran.

Colonel Douglas Macgregor, the dumbest colonel in human history. literally gets it wrong every f***ing time!! (And I know what “literally” means.) Tucker Carlson, sad. He’s probably just a few interviews away from publicly embracing Candace Owens’ lunatic antisemitism. Watch.

— Rafael Pi Roman (@RafPiRoman) June 15, 2025

We'll find out more tonight.

🇮🇱🇮🇷 Iranian Media: The wave of attacks tonight will be conducted under the command of the Islamic Republic's leader Mr. Ali Khamenei. pic.twitter.com/0ur10Ta9kc

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) June 16, 2025

DiabloWags said:

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BearGoggles said:

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DiabloWags said:

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Agreed 100%

Might as well hand over the bunker-busting bombs to finish off the nuclear facilities.
Although, Israel will most likely have to rely on intelligence assets inside IRAN to locate "other" facilities.

PS. Too funny when you see a MAGAT siding with Bernie Sanders.

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It is funny that the guy who often accuses others here of being stupid or lacking reading comprehension is once again suggesting the US hand over the required bunker busting bombs. As I posted previously, Israel does not have the ability to deliver the massive bunker buster bombs that are at issue.

Given how Israel has performed in Lebanon and Iran, it would be foolish to doubt that Israel has a back up plan if bombing alone does not work. They will destroy the nuclear facilities with or without the US dropping a bunker buster (possible through diplomatic front). Personally, I strongly prefer that the US not drop the BBBs unless and until that is the only option. We are a long way away from that.

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My position that you are terribly ignorant still stands.
You're terribly out of touch as well.

There are a number of GBU bunker busting bombs, classified by weight.

Israeli F-15 fighter bombers can indeed carry a 4,000 - 5,0000 lb GBU-28 bunker buster bomb.
Each can penetrate 5 - 6 meters of concrete.

Only a B-2 stealth bomber can handle the 30,000 lb bunker-buster (GBU-57A/B)

U.S. Bunker Buster Delivery to Israel: Key Details - The Jewish Voice

Nine US military planes deliver bunker-busting bombs to Israel: Report Middle East Monitor

Can Israel destroy Iran's nuclear sites?

Bunker Buster Bombs: What You Need to Know - Newsweek

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Different bombs.

Israel does have bunker buster bombs some of which are supplied by the US. But those are not the GBU 57 bunker busters that are preferred (if not required) for Fordow - the bomb Israel is begging the USA to drop.

Read the newsweek article you linked to - it is clearly referencing the US supplying a different (much smaller) bunker buster bomb).

The USA is the only country that has a plane (heavy bombers like the B-2) that can drop the GBU 57 bomb - Full stop. https://simpleflying.com/what-aircraft-carry-us-air-force-30000-pound-massive-ordnance-penetrator/

https://www.thenationalnews.com/news/mena/2025/06/13/precision-missiles-and-waves-of-bombers-used-in-israeli-nuclear-decapitation-raids/#:~:text=However%2C%20the%20Israeli%20air%20force,AP

Israel has ordered planes with that capability, but those are not going to be delivered for several years.

If Israel had the capability to drop the GBU 57 bomb - the specific bomb that is required - it would not be asking the US to do so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-57A/B_MOP

85% of MAGA wants nothing to do with this war. If Trump goes against his base, his presidency is over if he can't do Olympic level salesmanship.

edit: just saw this

BearGoggles said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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85% of MAGA wants nothing to do with this war. If Trump goes against his base, his presidency is over if he can't do Olympic level salesmanship.

edit: just saw this

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You're conflating a lot of things and "nothing to do" is not really true.

The vast majority of Americans (myself included) do not want the US directly fighting Iran in an offensive war (i.e., the proverbial boots on the ground). At the same time, the majority of Americans are in favor of the US helping Israel to do so, including by providing arms, intelligence, and defensive support (i.e., assisting in shooting down Iranian missiles).

The vast majority of Americans oppose Iran have nukes. Most people - including lots of MAGA - view that as core national interest of the USA. People like Tucker and MTG don't understand (or for other more cynical reasons choose to ignore) that Iran is a weak country and the USA can pursue that national interest without boots on the ground.

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All I care about is Trump not getting us involved...everything is just noise.

BearGoggles said:

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Cal88 said:

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I would assume that Iran would have hundreds of launchers, I am not sure if that item really is a bottleneck in their operations. I don't think as well that they are throwing their kitchen sink into this, Israel being a nuclear power.

We will soon find out if your assumptions are correct.

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As usual, your assumptions and conclusions are incorrect.

The lack of launchers is a massive part of the bottleneck. Israel is hugely focused on destroying the launchers, because Iran's strategy is to overwhelm Israeli defenses with simultaneous launches. That is why the daily decrease in Iran missile launches is both meaningful and revealing.

And LMAO at the argument that Iran is pulling punches. Israel has complete control of the country's airways and escalation dominance. Iran has no third party country coming to its aid. Yet you think the Mullahs are not fighting as if the existence of their regime is not at stake? OK.

And your continued citation to Macgregor is pretty funny. He's been wrong on pretty much everything, particularly with regard to Israel and Iran.

Colonel Douglas Macgregor, the dumbest colonel in human history. literally gets it wrong every f***ing time!! (And I know what “literally” means.) Tucker Carlson, sad. He’s probably just a few interviews away from publicly embracing Candace Owens’ lunatic antisemitism. Watch.

— Rafael Pi Roman (@RafPiRoman) June 15, 2025

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Macgregor's main point was that the 40,000 US troops stationed in countries near Iran, most of which within a few hundred miles on the other side of the Persian Gulf, were completely exposed to any Iranian strikes. Last year when Iran retaliated against the killing of Soleiman, they hit the Asad base in Iraq after giving the US advance notice and the soldiers were sheltered underground, it resulted in 36 traumatic brain injuries.

Question - if Iran is running out of missile launchers, and their capacity to fire missiles is compromised and dwindling, and with Israel having complete air superiority over Iran (allegedly), why would the Israeli government do something so drastic as to ban its citizens from fleeing the country??

Israeli minister of transportation Miri Regev confirms that only tourists and diplomats are allowed to leave the country.

Will anyone speak up for the Israelis being used as human shields by their despotic genocidal regime? pic.twitter.com/jpYw3YKqGj

— Dan Cohen (@dancohen3000) June 16, 2025