BearlySane88 said:

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concordtom said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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concordtom said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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It's not just in my school district and maybe but just because I was wealthier wouldn't make my job less stressful. Sometimes we need a puff/drink at the end of a long day.

---

If you made triple, the job might still carry the same stress, but all the other stresses in your life could be more easily addressed.
Home
Car
Bills
Family members who have sane struggles.

Money does not solve everything, certainly not, but there are levels.

Maslow hierarchy of needs includes things at the bottom which do require money.
More recent studies asking if money can buy happiness say Yes, up to a point.

Basic needs need to be met.
I think that figure for Bay Area California is more than teacher salaries

It's why I always push for higher wages for salaries.

Talented, driven people with lots of opportunities rarely choose to go into early education because the rewards are limited. So, we end up with a compromised workforce raising America's future. And that's a poor investment choice, politically, economically. A nation has to invest in its future.

I'm a proponent of early education, and that can be in schools, and in the home. We have home environments where kids are exposed to toxic situations at very young ages, and in many instances, schools can't fix that.

If we as a society devoted more attention to such things, we might not have as much homelessness, drug addicts and mass shootings.

I know, pie in the sky dreaming on a limited budget.

The current administration would have no clue what I'm talking about.

Trump spends more time talking about how he should have won the Nobel prize than he does dreaming about his lofty goals for our nation. He still talks about Crooked Hillary, or Obama.

I mean, we are SO far off the proper path. Can't you see that?

His only vision for America is the build a monument to himself. He gives two ****s about the average American. He's an empty soul.

We need to choose leaders with vision and care. Not just bravado.

Well, that was a few leaps.
Pot smoking. Stress. Teacher salaries. Early education. Solving societies ills. Replacing Trump.

It always rolls back to Trump.
The buck stops at the top.

---

I make a livable wage. I am not struggling financially. Do I get paid peanuts compared to the work and effort I do, yes but I'm not struggling. Again, I think you equating higher salaries to less stress is a nice idea but that's not where most teachers stressors are, not in my experiences at least. It's the lack of parent involvement in their child's development and education and an over burdening on teachers by administrators.

The buck stops at parents. Over my 15+ years of teaching, the level of care from parents has dropped dramatically. We went from "helicopter" parents who couldn't get out of their own child's way to "drive thru" parents who can't be bothered to even get out of the car for their child. Of course there have always been both, and still are, but there's been a dramatic shift to the latter in "recent" years.

"Talented, driven people with lots of opportunities rarely choose to go into early education because the rewards are limited. So, we end up with a compromised workforce raising America's future."

This is so not true. Please don't put down teachers by repeating this bs. You have very qualified, well educated individuals in California choosing to be teachers because they care. Many of us could make more money elsewhere doing something we don't love or care about. We aren't teachers because we lack other options. This is highly offensive and will not make you popular in teacher circles. The rewards are our work. Seeing Kid X learn, grow, mature, reach a goal. Kid Y's smile, Kid Z's inside joke. Those are our rewards. (and summer break )

I actually support this administration and their handling of education so far. I think education should be in the hands of the states, not federally mandated. We have seen an inept department of education waste billions while test scores worsen. I'm not saying this is the fix but something had to change. As you said it's a leap and I don't think you can blame all or maybe even any of these problems you're mentioning on Trump and his presidency.

---

I feared my words would be offensive and turned against me as if a smear upon all teachers. I apologize, however, let me double down, try again.

In any arena where the rewards increase, the supply of people opting that route will increase.
Just consider basic supply and demand curve. More individuals would be willing to teach if the pay was increased. With more demand (applications) the higher quality candidates would be selected, replacing others available to hiring staff with the lower wage structure. That's a fact in any industry.

I'll second the assertion by asking how many are in your classes. 30?
With increased funding you get 20. And money to do better classroom experiences. Field trips. Science kits whatever you as a great teacher can dream up.

I agree that parents could also step up their game. And that's a separate topic.

---

Not that I'm asking for a lower salary for teachers but I could argue that you actually get the best teachers with a lower salary. Nobody is going to teach and get paid the salary we do unless they are passionate about it. Passionate teachers are better teachers. With a higher salary you would attract more polished candidates but that doesn't mean they would actually be passionate about teaching. I'm not saying I believe this fully, I'm just typing my thoughts out.

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My wife's experience mirror's that. (coming up on 28 years - almost all in SPED)

A real challenge in teaching is that we hire well educated (usually a Masters) individuals who are passionate about teaching and then create a management structure that is about 70 years out of date. We need to radically rethink how parents can be involved but not micromanage and a bloated and and out of touch administration can be pared radically back so that resources can go into what teachers desperately need - more adult bodies that are well trained in the classroom.

Nearly every teacher I know LOVES the kids, LOVES the work, HATES with a sheer passion the administration and the way in which they waste time.

I don't have an answer. The entire structure is set up for top-down management in a profession completely antithetical to top down direction. I would love to hear and learn about radically different models that look to different models of management to make it work.

PS. It does not help that we have a front line workforce (especailly in elementary) that is largely women then managed (most administrators) by men. Such a stupid hold over from the 1950s. We would get RADICALLY different outcomes if administrators were paid LESS than teachers.....

Well paid educators don't get burnt out / have sabbaticals/ can afford to take summers off low paid are struggling and disrespected

Well paid instructors produce results low paid teachers are in low income areas that have other socioeconomic manufactured problems that directly impact children (learned/ character development)

going4roses said:

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Well paid educators don't get burnt out / have sabbaticals/ can afford to take summers off low paid are struggling and disrespected

Well paid instructors produce results low paid teachers are in low income areas that have other socioeconomic manufactured problems that directly impact children (learned/ character development)

---

Could only be written by someone who hasn't taught and whose experience is largely through a keyboard. You just have NO IDEA as to the extent to which a ton of the challenges in teaching are about administration (and arguably in turn the "joys" of external forces upon them). This is particularly true as you go up the socio-economic ladder - where teachers are micromanaged by administrators who in turn are under tremendous pressure to micro manage everything.

Are you so sure ? Or are you assuming ? Different experiences = Different vantage points assessments.

Now I am not saying all educators and students but … I can't deny what I have seen and experienced real time

The worst part about teaching HAS to be the parents

This 20-year teaching veteran (recently retired) says that MOSTLY ALL of the kids, MOST of the parents and MOST (barely) of the administrators are wonderful. I had one great principal who was worth his weight in gold.

True, you get some of the above who AREN'T so good (euphemism) and that's really when you wish you were getting paid more (also if you have a mortgage).

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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concordtom said:

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BearlySane88 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

It's not just in my school district and maybe but just because I was wealthier wouldn't make my job less stressful. Sometimes we need a puff/drink at the end of a long day.

---

If you made triple, the job might still carry the same stress, but all the other stresses in your life could be more easily addressed.
Home
Car
Bills
Family members who have sane struggles.

Money does not solve everything, certainly not, but there are levels.

Maslow hierarchy of needs includes things at the bottom which do require money.
More recent studies asking if money can buy happiness say Yes, up to a point.

Basic needs need to be met.
I think that figure for Bay Area California is more than teacher salaries

It's why I always push for higher wages for salaries.

Talented, driven people with lots of opportunities rarely choose to go into early education because the rewards are limited. So, we end up with a compromised workforce raising America's future. And that's a poor investment choice, politically, economically. A nation has to invest in its future.

I'm a proponent of early education, and that can be in schools, and in the home. We have home environments where kids are exposed to toxic situations at very young ages, and in many instances, schools can't fix that.

If we as a society devoted more attention to such things, we might not have as much homelessness, drug addicts and mass shootings.

I know, pie in the sky dreaming on a limited budget.

The current administration would have no clue what I'm talking about.

Trump spends more time talking about how he should have won the Nobel prize than he does dreaming about his lofty goals for our nation. He still talks about Crooked Hillary, or Obama.

I mean, we are SO far off the proper path. Can't you see that?

His only vision for America is the build a monument to himself. He gives two ****s about the average American. He's an empty soul.

We need to choose leaders with vision and care. Not just bravado.

Well, that was a few leaps.
Pot smoking. Stress. Teacher salaries. Early education. Solving societies ills. Replacing Trump.

It always rolls back to Trump.
The buck stops at the top.

---

I make a livable wage. I am not struggling financially. Do I get paid peanuts compared to the work and effort I do, yes but I'm not struggling. Again, I think you equating higher salaries to less stress is a nice idea but that's not where most teachers stressors are, not in my experiences at least. It's the lack of parent involvement in their child's development and education and an over burdening on teachers by administrators.

The buck stops at parents. Over my 15+ years of teaching, the level of care from parents has dropped dramatically. We went from "helicopter" parents who couldn't get out of their own child's way to "drive thru" parents who can't be bothered to even get out of the car for their child. Of course there have always been both, and still are, but there's been a dramatic shift to the latter in "recent" years.

"Talented, driven people with lots of opportunities rarely choose to go into early education because the rewards are limited. So, we end up with a compromised workforce raising America's future."

This is so not true. Please don't put down teachers by repeating this bs. You have very qualified, well educated individuals in California choosing to be teachers because they care. Many of us could make more money elsewhere doing something we don't love or care about. We aren't teachers because we lack other options. This is highly offensive and will not make you popular in teacher circles. The rewards are our work. Seeing Kid X learn, grow, mature, reach a goal. Kid Y's smile, Kid Z's inside joke. Those are our rewards. (and summer break )

I actually support this administration and their handling of education so far. I think education should be in the hands of the states, not federally mandated. We have seen an inept department of education waste billions while test scores worsen. I'm not saying this is the fix but something had to change. As you said it's a leap and I don't think you can blame all or maybe even any of these problems you're mentioning on Trump and his presidency.

---

I feared my words would be offensive and turned against me as if a smear upon all teachers. I apologize, however, let me double down, try again.

In any arena where the rewards increase, the supply of people opting that route will increase.
Just consider basic supply and demand curve. More individuals would be willing to teach if the pay was increased. With more demand (applications) the higher quality candidates would be selected, replacing others available to hiring staff with the lower wage structure. That's a fact in any industry.

I'll second the assertion by asking how many are in your classes. 30?
With increased funding you get 20. And money to do better classroom experiences. Field trips. Science kits whatever you as a great teacher can dream up.

I agree that parents could also step up their game. And that's a separate topic.

---

Not that I'm asking for a lower salary for teachers but I could argue that you actually get the best teachers with a lower salary. Nobody is going to teach and get paid the salary we do unless they are passionate about it. Passionate teachers are better teachers. With a higher salary you would attract more polished candidates but that doesn't mean they would actually be passionate about teaching. I'm not saying I believe this fully, I'm just typing my thoughts out.

---

Most of us just type without thinking, so you're ahead of most of us.

I'll agree with your assessment of teachers, though I would still pay them more. I have a nephew that's an elementary school teacher and he loves what he's doing. He'll talk at length about the times he's seen the light going on in a student's eyes when they figure something out. I believe he's one of the passionate ones.

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Sounds like he is a good one to me. Teaching should be fun, if it isn't it's time to get out. I'd never turn down your higher pay

concordtom said:

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Nothing wrong with pairing passion with financial rewards.
The hiring process (and firing process, very important) should screen a lack of passion and lack of quality job performance out.

Get rid of seniority and tenure.
Teachers can have passion at 25 and be burnt by 45. Yet they have to stick around to make a living. If you paid them more earlier then they can be rotated out when their time is (ineffective) done.

---

Fine by me as long as there is still job security for teachers. Yes good teachers should be rewarded but it's exhausting enough without having to look over your shoulder the whole time

socaltownie said:

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BearlySane88 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

It's not just in my school district and maybe but just because I was wealthier wouldn't make my job less stressful. Sometimes we need a puff/drink at the end of a long day.

---

If you made triple, the job might still carry the same stress, but all the other stresses in your life could be more easily addressed.
Home
Car
Bills
Family members who have sane struggles.

Money does not solve everything, certainly not, but there are levels.

Maslow hierarchy of needs includes things at the bottom which do require money.
More recent studies asking if money can buy happiness say Yes, up to a point.

Basic needs need to be met.
I think that figure for Bay Area California is more than teacher salaries

It's why I always push for higher wages for salaries.

Talented, driven people with lots of opportunities rarely choose to go into early education because the rewards are limited. So, we end up with a compromised workforce raising America's future. And that's a poor investment choice, politically, economically. A nation has to invest in its future.

I'm a proponent of early education, and that can be in schools, and in the home. We have home environments where kids are exposed to toxic situations at very young ages, and in many instances, schools can't fix that.

If we as a society devoted more attention to such things, we might not have as much homelessness, drug addicts and mass shootings.

I know, pie in the sky dreaming on a limited budget.

The current administration would have no clue what I'm talking about.

Trump spends more time talking about how he should have won the Nobel prize than he does dreaming about his lofty goals for our nation. He still talks about Crooked Hillary, or Obama.

I mean, we are SO far off the proper path. Can't you see that?

His only vision for America is the build a monument to himself. He gives two ****s about the average American. He's an empty soul.

We need to choose leaders with vision and care. Not just bravado.

Well, that was a few leaps.
Pot smoking. Stress. Teacher salaries. Early education. Solving societies ills. Replacing Trump.

It always rolls back to Trump.
The buck stops at the top.

---

I make a livable wage. I am not struggling financially. Do I get paid peanuts compared to the work and effort I do, yes but I'm not struggling. Again, I think you equating higher salaries to less stress is a nice idea but that's not where most teachers stressors are, not in my experiences at least. It's the lack of parent involvement in their child's development and education and an over burdening on teachers by administrators.

The buck stops at parents. Over my 15+ years of teaching, the level of care from parents has dropped dramatically. We went from "helicopter" parents who couldn't get out of their own child's way to "drive thru" parents who can't be bothered to even get out of the car for their child. Of course there have always been both, and still are, but there's been a dramatic shift to the latter in "recent" years.

"Talented, driven people with lots of opportunities rarely choose to go into early education because the rewards are limited. So, we end up with a compromised workforce raising America's future."

This is so not true. Please don't put down teachers by repeating this bs. You have very qualified, well educated individuals in California choosing to be teachers because they care. Many of us could make more money elsewhere doing something we don't love or care about. We aren't teachers because we lack other options. This is highly offensive and will not make you popular in teacher circles. The rewards are our work. Seeing Kid X learn, grow, mature, reach a goal. Kid Y's smile, Kid Z's inside joke. Those are our rewards. (and summer break )

I actually support this administration and their handling of education so far. I think education should be in the hands of the states, not federally mandated. We have seen an inept department of education waste billions while test scores worsen. I'm not saying this is the fix but something had to change. As you said it's a leap and I don't think you can blame all or maybe even any of these problems you're mentioning on Trump and his presidency.

---

I feared my words would be offensive and turned against me as if a smear upon all teachers. I apologize, however, let me double down, try again.

In any arena where the rewards increase, the supply of people opting that route will increase.
Just consider basic supply and demand curve. More individuals would be willing to teach if the pay was increased. With more demand (applications) the higher quality candidates would be selected, replacing others available to hiring staff with the lower wage structure. That's a fact in any industry.

I'll second the assertion by asking how many are in your classes. 30?
With increased funding you get 20. And money to do better classroom experiences. Field trips. Science kits whatever you as a great teacher can dream up.

I agree that parents could also step up their game. And that's a separate topic.

---

Not that I'm asking for a lower salary for teachers but I could argue that you actually get the best teachers with a lower salary. Nobody is going to teach and get paid the salary we do unless they are passionate about it. Passionate teachers are better teachers. With a higher salary you would attract more polished candidates but that doesn't mean they would actually be passionate about teaching. I'm not saying I believe this fully, I'm just typing my thoughts out.

---

My wife's experience mirror's that. (coming up on 28 years - almost all in SPED)

Nearly every teacher I know LOVES the kids, LOVES the work, HATES with a sheer passion the administration and the way in which they waste time.

PS. It does not help that we have a front line workforce (especailly in elementary) that is largely women then managed (most administrators) by men. Such a stupid hold over from the 1950s. We would get RADICALLY different outcomes if administrators were paid LESS than teachers.....

---

Major kudos to your wife for teaching special education for so long. I have several friends who quite literally get beat up at work and have to just kinda take it. Going home with a ripped shirt and scratches on their arms is far too regular. Bless all of y'all's hearts for doing that. Takes a special human being.

It's absolutely the administrations fault that teachers get burned out. Kids can be hard but they are the best part. Adults make everything harder.

Administrators in some ways have their hands tied by their higher ups but it's insane how much influence they have on the happiness of a teacher and in turn the success of that teacher

dajo9 said:

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The worst part about teaching HAS to be the parents

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Close second to admin. Some years they are neck and neck

going4roses said:

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Well paid educators don't get burnt out / have sabbaticals/ can afford to take summers off low paid are struggling and disrespected

Well paid instructors produce results
low paid teachers are in low income areas that have other socioeconomic manufactured problems that directly impact children (learned/ character development)

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Which is why it's not just about teachers and schools but lifting up entire communities.
Huge task.
Pie in the sky.

Best solution is to have an economy that is humming. Unfortunately, while we've had that for a long time, the spoils have gone heavily to those who need it the least.

socaltownie said:

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going4roses said:

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Well paid educators don't get burnt out / have sabbaticals/ can afford to take summers off low paid are struggling and disrespected

Well paid instructors produce results low paid teachers are in low income areas that have other socioeconomic manufactured problems that directly impact children (learned/ character development)

---

Could only be written by someone who hasn't taught and whose experience is largely through a keyboard. You just have NO IDEA as to the extent to which a ton of the challenges in teaching are about administration (and arguably in turn the "joys" of external forces upon them). This is particularly true as you go up the socio-economic ladder - where teachers are micromanaged by administrators who in turn are under tremendous pressure to micro manage everything.

---

You'll have to say a lot more about that.

Let me share.
We were in concord and looking to upgrade.
We interviewed a good number of principals about their schools. Best quote was from a principal in Lafayette:

"The only difference between this school and yours is that these children are ready to learn when they come to school."

Huh?

In financially challenged districts, kids may have parents who are stressed because they are struggling to pay the bills. There may be extra struggling family members on the couch. They may have not eaten breakfast. Or showered. Or got a good night's sleep.
They may have drugs and abuse, or disruptions sounding from out in the streets.

If a child is dealing with chaos at home, they may not be ready to digest teacher's lessons.

BearlySane88 said:

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concordtom said:

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Nothing wrong with pairing passion with financial rewards.
The hiring process (and firing process, very important) should screen a lack of passion and lack of quality job performance out.

Get rid of seniority and tenure.
Teachers can have passion at 25 and be burnt by 45. Yet they have to stick around to make a living. If you paid them more earlier then they can be rotated out when their time is (ineffective) done.

---

Fine by me as long as there is still job security for teachers. Yes good teachers should be rewarded but it's exhausting enough without having to look over your shoulder the whole time

---

Every job should have some looking over your shoulder. Performance incentives produce higher performance.
Name a profession where there is no accountability.

Now, for those Reds on BI who call me a damned liberal, or other commie insults, come at me now, will ya?

concordtom said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

going4roses said:

---

Well paid educators don't get burnt out / have sabbaticals/ can afford to take summers off low paid are struggling and disrespected

Well paid instructors produce results low paid teachers are in low income areas that have other socioeconomic manufactured problems that directly impact children (learned/ character development)

---

Could only be written by someone who hasn't taught and whose experience is largely through a keyboard. You just have NO IDEA as to the extent to which a ton of the challenges in teaching are about administration (and arguably in turn the "joys" of external forces upon them). This is particularly true as you go up the socio-economic ladder - where teachers are micromanaged by administrators who in turn are under tremendous pressure to micro manage everything.

---

You'll have to say a lot more about that.

Let me share.
We were in concord and looking to upgrade.
We interviewed a good number of principals about their schools. Best quote was from a principal in Lafayette:

"The only difference between this school and yours is that these children are ready to learn when they come to school."

Huh?

In financially challenged districts, kids may have parents who are stressed because they are struggling to pay the bills. There may be extra struggling family members on the couch. They may have not eaten breakfast. Or showered. Or got a good night's sleep.
They may have drugs and abuse, or disruptions sounding from out in the streets.

If a child is dealing with chaos at home, they may not be ready to digest teacher's lessons.

---

While I hear your point, chaos isn't limited to families in financially challenged districts

concordtom said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

Nothing wrong with pairing passion with financial rewards.
The hiring process (and firing process, very important) should screen a lack of passion and lack of quality job performance out.

Get rid of seniority and tenure.
Teachers can have passion at 25 and be burnt by 45. Yet they have to stick around to make a living. If you paid them more earlier then they can be rotated out when their time is (ineffective) done.

---

Fine by me as long as there is still job security for teachers. Yes good teachers should be rewarded but it's exhausting enough without having to look over your shoulder the whole time

---

Every job should have some looking over your shoulder. Performance incentives produce higher performance.
Name a profession where there is no accountability.

Now, for those Reds on BI who call me a damned liberal, or other commie insults, come at me now, will ya?

---

I didn't say there shouldn't be accountability. That's different than constantly looking over your shoulder

BearlySane88 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

going4roses said:

---

Well paid educators don't get burnt out / have sabbaticals/ can afford to take summers off low paid are struggling and disrespected

Well paid instructors produce results low paid teachers are in low income areas that have other socioeconomic manufactured problems that directly impact children (learned/ character development)

---

Could only be written by someone who hasn't taught and whose experience is largely through a keyboard. You just have NO IDEA as to the extent to which a ton of the challenges in teaching are about administration (and arguably in turn the "joys" of external forces upon them). This is particularly true as you go up the socio-economic ladder - where teachers are micromanaged by administrators who in turn are under tremendous pressure to micro manage everything.

---

You'll have to say a lot more about that.

Let me share.
We were in concord and looking to upgrade.
We interviewed a good number of principals about their schools. Best quote was from a principal in Lafayette:

"The only difference between this school and yours is that these children are ready to learn when they come to school."

Huh?

In financially challenged districts, kids may have parents who are stressed because they are struggling to pay the bills. There may be extra struggling family members on the couch. They may have not eaten breakfast. Or showered. Or got a good night's sleep.
They may have drugs and abuse, or disruptions sounding from out in the streets.

If a child is dealing with chaos at home, they may not be ready to digest teacher's lessons.

---

While I hear your point, chaos isn't limited to families in financially challenged districts

---

Absolutely true!!!

BearlySane88 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

Nothing wrong with pairing passion with financial rewards.
The hiring process (and firing process, very important) should screen a lack of passion and lack of quality job performance out.

Get rid of seniority and tenure.
Teachers can have passion at 25 and be burnt by 45. Yet they have to stick around to make a living. If you paid them more earlier then they can be rotated out when their time is (ineffective) done.

---

Fine by me as long as there is still job security for teachers. Yes good teachers should be rewarded but it's exhausting enough without having to look over your shoulder the whole time

---

Every job should have some looking over your shoulder. Performance incentives produce higher performance.
Name a profession where there is no accountability.

Now, for those Reds on BI who call me a damned liberal, or other commie insults, come at me now, will ya?

---

I didn't say there shouldn't be accountability. That's different than constantly looking over your shoulder

---

Good clarification.
I didn't think you had.
I was just making a point.

concordtom said:

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socaltownie said:

---

going4roses said:

---

Well paid educators don't get burnt out / have sabbaticals/ can afford to take summers off low paid are struggling and disrespected

Well paid instructors produce results low paid teachers are in low income areas that have other socioeconomic manufactured problems that directly impact children (learned/ character development)

---

Could only be written by someone who hasn't taught and whose experience is largely through a keyboard. You just have NO IDEA as to the extent to which a ton of the challenges in teaching are about administration (and arguably in turn the "joys" of external forces upon them). This is particularly true as you go up the socio-economic ladder - where teachers are micromanaged by administrators who in turn are under tremendous pressure to micro manage everything.

---

You'll have to say a lot more about that.

---

I believe that the management system we have for K-12 makes no sense. It is regimented and highly structured for a profession that demands creativity.

Just one thing to consider - your average elementary teacher is trying to "manage" 30+ reports without the power to hire, promote, give raises and reward their staff with anything more than the equivalent of gold stars. They do have punitive powers, from notes in files to unscheduled evaluations to undercutting them with parents. Honestly that is why the best principals, when you aks most teachers, are those that stay out of their hair and run interference with parents.

I think the place to look honestly is to higher education and to medicine. Both of those professions are also staffed by highly skilled individuals who need a ton of freedom in their jobs. They use a much more collegial form of management (boards, departments). We would have to blow the entire system up but I think there are models there that would be highly useful as ways of thinking about organizing and managing at the school site level.

Christian nationalist podcaster Joshua Haymes says Christians must be willing to defend the institution of slavery because the Bible makes it clear that "it is not inherently evil to own another human being." https://t.co/XBMQW7HSen pic.twitter.com/pLXnW5ZqqP

— Right Wing Watch (@RightWingWatch) October 17, 2025

sycasey said:

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x.com/rightwingwatch/status/1979284403324096830?s=46&t=V7xIXbvJu4pWYQrZSv3olA

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Just, Say, No

BearlySane88 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

Nothing wrong with pairing passion with financial rewards.
The hiring process (and firing process, very important) should screen a lack of passion and lack of quality job performance out.

Get rid of seniority and tenure.
Teachers can have passion at 25 and be burnt by 45. Yet they have to stick around to make a living. If you paid them more earlier then they can be rotated out when their time is (ineffective) done.

---

Fine by me as long as there is still job security for teachers. Yes good teachers should be rewarded but it's exhausting enough without having to look over your shoulder the whole time

---

Every job should have some looking over your shoulder. Performance incentives produce higher performance.
Name a profession where there is no accountability.

Now, for those Reds on BI who call me a damned liberal, or other commie insults, come at me now, will ya?

---

I didn't say there shouldn't be accountability. That's different than constantly looking over your shoulder

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I am 100% for teacher tenure, although maybe it can/should be tweaked a little bit.

One of the reasons I am for it is that teachers know what's going on in schools... and one of the things that can be going on is that the higher-ups suck, which can ruin a school. And the folks that usually comment on the higher-ups sucking are tenured teachers. Without tenure, the sucking higher-ups would just let the teachers go.

I have personally seen this a number of times.

Take two schools with relatively the same student populations and, to start out with, the same level of teachers and the same funding...

Put a poor principal in one of the schools and a good one in the other. You will notice the difference between the schools in months. After 3-4 years of this, you would never guess that the schools had started out being relatively the same.

Big C said:

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Take two schools with relatively the same student populations and, to start out with, the same level of teachers and the same funding...

Put a poor principal in one of the schools and a good one in the other. You will notice the difference between the schools in months. After 3-4 years of this, you would never guess that the schools had started out being relatively the same.

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tnx BC. clueless i'll ask if the principal (mostly) is responsible / lobbies for their funding too?
signed, child-less by choice

smh said:

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Big C said:

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Take two schools with relatively the same student populations and, to start out with, the same level of teachers and the same funding...

Put a poor principal in one of the schools and a good one in the other. You will notice the difference between the schools in months. After 3-4 years of this, you would never guess that the schools had started out being relatively the same.

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tnx BC. clueless i'll ask if the principal (mostly) is responsible / lobbies for their funding too?
signed, child-less by choice

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Starting to get away from my expertise, but I guess a good principal could help funding by knowing how to get certain grants and influencing fundraising.

The main things good principals do is positively affect morale amongst students and staff by being rational, firm-but-fair, inspiring, honest and selfless. Sounds easier than it is, I guess. You'd be surprised at the number of school administrators who are obviously angling to get promoted to a district office job.

What do you think?
Anyone?

Whatever you do, don't call them Nazis. Because eventually they will do it themselves.

EXCLUSIVE: Embattled Trump nominee Paul Ingrassia told Republicans that the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday should be “tossed into the seventh circle of hell” and that he has “a Nazi streak,” according to a group chat viewed by POLITICO.https://t.co/BHSud48VAh

— POLITICO (@politico) October 20, 2025

sycasey said:

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Whatever you do, don't call them Nazis. Because eventually they will do it themselves.

EXCLUSIVE: Embattled Trump nominee Paul Ingrassia told Republicans that the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday should be “tossed into the seventh circle of hell” and that he has “a Nazi streak,” according to a group chat viewed by POLITICO.https://t.co/BHSud48VAh

— POLITICO (@politico) October 20, 2025

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FYI: Politico takes money for hit pieces.

Is the above story false? I have no idea. Are there crazies on both sides? Yes. Should they all be deplatformed? Yes.

BearlySane88 said:

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sycasey said:

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Whatever you do, don't call them Nazis. Because eventually they will do it themselves.

EXCLUSIVE: Embattled Trump nominee Paul Ingrassia told Republicans that the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday should be “tossed into the seventh circle of hell” and that he has “a Nazi streak,” according to a group chat viewed by POLITICO.https://t.co/BHSud48VAh

— POLITICO (@politico) October 20, 2025

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FYI: Politico takes money for hit pieces.

Is the above story false? I have no idea. Are there crazies on both sides? Yes. Should they all be deplatformed? Yes.

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More from this guy, who currently works for the Trump White House:

BREAKING: new racist Republican groupchat has been leaked to Politico featuring texts from Paul Ingrassia, Trump’s nominee to lead the Office of Special Counsel.

Ingrassia’s texts include vile pro-Nazi & racist messages targeting Black people, Chinese people, and Indian people. pic.twitter.com/bxy5ZKdPQn

— Kaivan Shroff (@KaivanShroff) October 20, 2025

Not a fan of Chinese or Indian people either, it seems.