White House has settled in
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Last: 2 yr ago by cbbass1
Once the GOP went with their Southern strategy, the racism within the party has been persistent and clear because they went with white identity politics as a national directive. Trump has simply validated this racism, and why many love him.
this thread is like elementary kids frothing at the mouth cuz they think they're gonna see b o o b i e s
But her fuucking emails, still.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/state-dept-intensifies-email-probe-of-hillary-clintons-former-aides/2019/09/28/9f15497e-e1f2-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html
"State Dept. intensifies email probe of Hillary Clinton's former aides."
"The Trump administration is investigating the email records of dozens of current and former senior State Department officials who sent messages to then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's private email, reviving a politically toxic matter that overshadowed the 2016 election."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/state-dept-intensifies-email-probe-of-hillary-clintons-former-aides/2019/09/28/9f15497e-e1f2-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html
"State Dept. intensifies email probe of Hillary Clinton's former aides."
"The Trump administration is investigating the email records of dozens of current and former senior State Department officials who sent messages to then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's private email, reviving a politically toxic matter that overshadowed the 2016 election."
I saw that and was going to post it. Seriously. W.T.F., grasping at straws and wasting resources. Yeah baby, that's the GOP way, along with criminality, treason, cheating...you name it.
B.A. Bearacus said:
But her fuucking emails, still.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/state-dept-intensifies-email-probe-of-hillary-clintons-former-aides/2019/09/28/9f15497e-e1f2-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html
"State Dept. intensifies email probe of Hillary Clinton's former aides."
"The Trump administration is investigating the email records of dozens of current and former senior State Department officials who sent messages to then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's private email, reviving a politically toxic matter that overshadowed the 2016 election."
They are scum. They are casting a wide net and going after low level people at great expense to these people in the hopes that one of them will say something incriminating about Hillary Clinton. Bankruptcy or play ball. A true perversion of Justice. The Putin method. If this is the way the U.S. operates against the President's political enemies going forward, put a fork in it. It's done.
sycasey said:B.A. Bearacus said:
"Savages."
I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if T were in jail and bad things were happening to him while in there.
And of course, the Republican Party only treated President Obama with the greatest of respect.
And they were enthusiastic partners in government, willing to negotiate and bargain in good faith over policy, appointments, and overall governance.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Excerpts:
When the accommodation involves compromising one's sense of integrity, the tensions are reduced when others join in the effort. This creates a powerful sense of cohesion, harmony and group think. The greater the compromise, the more fierce the justification for it and the greater the need to denounce those who call them out for their compromise. "In response," this person said to me, "an 'us versus them' mentality emerges, sometimes quite viciously."
Month after month, with one outrageous, norm-shattering comment or action giving way to another, Republicans who in the past could never have envisioned being Trump acolytes, have been ground down. Accommodation has kicked in, which is a psychological relief to many of them. For those who view Mr. Trump as a model politician who voices their grievances and fights with a viciousness they have long hoped for from Republicans, the accommodation is not just a relief but a source of delight.
As the psychologist I spoke to put it to me, many Republicans "are nearly unrecognizable versions of themselves pre-Trump. At this stage it's less about defending Trump; they are defending their own defense of Trump."
"At this point," this person went on, "condemnation of Trump is condemnation of themselves. They've let too much go by to try and assert moral high ground now. Calling out another is one thing; calling out yourself is quite another."
As a result, many in Mr. Trump's party not only refuse to challenge his maliciousness; they have adopted his approach. They have embraced his "will to power" worldview. After dealing with Mr. Trump, "you're definitely denuded and jaded," one Republican who has interacted recently with members of Congress told me. "Your sense of perspective is totally warped."
Many Republicans now find themselves in a place they never envisioned not only defending Mr. Trump but doing so with gusto. Those who once defended traditional values now relish siding with the Great Transgressor. "Owning the libs" turns out to be a lot of fun. But it also comes at a high cost.
I've said from the beginning that the parallel is to the OJ is innocent crowd. People jumped to support him with few facts, believed every conspiracy theory, and the more obvious it became that he was guilty, the more they dug in their heels. People forget that a large percentage of the population not only thought OJ was innocent, they fought that fight hard. Now the concept of OJ being innocent is a joke. The Trump presidency has been one big OJ trial. People projected what they wanted onto Trump. They supported an illusion. He isn't at all what they asked for, but they keep going.B.A. Bearacus said:
Excerpts:
When the accommodation involves compromising one's sense of integrity, the tensions are reduced when others join in the effort. This creates a powerful sense of cohesion, harmony and group think. The greater the compromise, the more fierce the justification for it and the greater the need to denounce those who call them out for their compromise. "In response," this person said to me, "an 'us versus them' mentality emerges, sometimes quite viciously."
Month after month, with one outrageous, norm-shattering comment or action giving way to another, Republicans who in the past could never have envisioned being Trump acolytes, have been ground down. Accommodation has kicked in, which is a psychological relief to many of them. For those who view Mr. Trump as a model politician who voices their grievances and fights with a viciousness they have long hoped for from Republicans, the accommodation is not just a relief but a source of delight.
As the psychologist I spoke to put it to me, many Republicans "are nearly unrecognizable versions of themselves pre-Trump. At this stage it's less about defending Trump; they are defending their own defense of Trump."
"At this point," this person went on, "condemnation of Trump is condemnation of themselves. They've let too much go by to try and assert moral high ground now. Calling out another is one thing; calling out yourself is quite another."
As a result, many in Mr. Trump's party not only refuse to challenge his maliciousness; they have adopted his approach. They have embraced his "will to power" worldview. After dealing with Mr. Trump, "you're definitely denuded and jaded," one Republican who has interacted recently with members of Congress told me. "Your sense of perspective is totally warped."
Many Republicans now find themselves in a place they never envisioned not only defending Mr. Trump but doing so with gusto. Those who once defended traditional values now relish siding with the Great Transgressor. "Owning the libs" turns out to be a lot of fun. But it also comes at a high cost.
I think in both cases part of it stems from the "other side" telling them from the beginning (justifiably in my opinion) that they were being morons and they weren't looking at the actual facts. It is hard to come to grips with the fact that you have been a moron and to have to tell the jerks that were calling you a moron that yes, you were a moron. With OJ, basically we got through the trials, he ended up in jail anyway for something else, the story finally died out, and as years went by people started to see sense because we were beyond the point where they had to stand up and declare a change of mind. I think the same thing is going to happen here. 15 years after Trump has gone away, you will find a low percentage of the population supports his act. But at this point, they not only have to publicly admit they were wrong, they have to publicly admit they were stupid.
And there is also a whole media apparatus built up over decades to support the Republican Party and conservative politics in general, and now that Trump is at the head of those things the apparatus is basically forced to support him to continue their business model. That means the people who don't want to admit they were wrong can also just turn to media sources that will keep telling them they were never wrong.OaktownBear said:I've said from the beginning that the parallel is to the OJ is innocent crowd. People jumped to support him with few facts, believed every conspiracy theory, and the more obvious it became that he was guilty, the more they dug in their heels. People forget that a large percentage of the population not only thought OJ was innocent, they fought that fight hard. Now the concept of OJ being innocent is a joke. The Trump presidency has been one big OJ trial. People projected what they wanted onto Trump. They supported an illusion. He isn't at all what they asked for, but they keep going.B.A. Bearacus said:
Excerpts:
When the accommodation involves compromising one's sense of integrity, the tensions are reduced when others join in the effort. This creates a powerful sense of cohesion, harmony and group think. The greater the compromise, the more fierce the justification for it and the greater the need to denounce those who call them out for their compromise. "In response," this person said to me, "an 'us versus them' mentality emerges, sometimes quite viciously."
Month after month, with one outrageous, norm-shattering comment or action giving way to another, Republicans who in the past could never have envisioned being Trump acolytes, have been ground down. Accommodation has kicked in, which is a psychological relief to many of them. For those who view Mr. Trump as a model politician who voices their grievances and fights with a viciousness they have long hoped for from Republicans, the accommodation is not just a relief but a source of delight.
As the psychologist I spoke to put it to me, many Republicans "are nearly unrecognizable versions of themselves pre-Trump. At this stage it's less about defending Trump; they are defending their own defense of Trump."
"At this point," this person went on, "condemnation of Trump is condemnation of themselves. They've let too much go by to try and assert moral high ground now. Calling out another is one thing; calling out yourself is quite another."
As a result, many in Mr. Trump's party not only refuse to challenge his maliciousness; they have adopted his approach. They have embraced his "will to power" worldview. After dealing with Mr. Trump, "you're definitely denuded and jaded," one Republican who has interacted recently with members of Congress told me. "Your sense of perspective is totally warped."
Many Republicans now find themselves in a place they never envisioned not only defending Mr. Trump but doing so with gusto. Those who once defended traditional values now relish siding with the Great Transgressor. "Owning the libs" turns out to be a lot of fun. But it also comes at a high cost.
I think in both cases part of it stems from the "other side" telling them from the beginning (justifiably in my opinion) that they were being morons and they weren't looking at the actual facts. It is hard to come to grips with the fact that you have been a moron and to have to tell the jerks that were calling you a moron that yes, you were a moron. With OJ, basically we got through the trials, he ended up in jail anyway for something else, the story finally died out, and as years went by people started to see sense because we were beyond the point where they had to stand up and declare a change of mind. I think the same thing is going to happen here. 15 years after Trump has gone away, you will find a low percentage of the population supports his act. But at this point, they not only have to publicly admit they were wrong, they have to publicly admit they were stupid.
I'm not sure how that all shakes out when Trump is gone. It will be quite a ride.
That is a perfect summary. And being on the side that saw the danger and stupidity and lack of examining the facts, it is hard to now be generous with these people who have not only ignored every chance you have given them to be reasonable and listen to very simple explanations, and instead have actually ridiculed and acted sanctimonious about their own blind loyalty and lack of reason.OaktownBear said:
I've said from the beginning that the parallel is to the OJ is innocent crowd. People jumped to support him with few facts, believed every conspiracy theory, and the more obvious it became that he was guilty, the more they dug in their heels. People forget that a large percentage of the population not only thought OJ was innocent, they fought that fight hard. Now the concept of OJ being innocent is a joke. The Trump presidency has been one big OJ trial. People projected what they wanted onto Trump. They supported an illusion. He isn't at all what they asked for, but they keep going.
I think in both cases part of it stems from the "other side" telling them from the beginning (justifiably in my opinion) that they were being morons and they weren't looking at the actual facts. It is hard to come to grips with the fact that you have been a moron and to have to tell the jerks that were calling you a moron that yes, you were a moron. With OJ, basically we got through the trials, he ended up in jail anyway for something else, the story finally died out, and as years went by people started to see sense because we were beyond the point where they had to stand up and declare a change of mind. I think the same thing is going to happen here. 15 years after Trump has gone away, you will find a low percentage of the population supports his act. But at this point, they not only have to publicly admit they were wrong, they have to publicly admit they were stupid.
Yes, these people will eventually distance from Trump and act like they weren't fooled back 15 years ago and not mindlessly defending and tossing away their values in 2016, but they will be on to the next act of stupid belief and "owning the libs" without having self-examined or learned a lesson about questioning their Cognitive Dissonance or sources of information.
It's like dealing with a stubborn immature teenager, except at the society level and for decades. I wish they'd grow up and be part of the solution by accepting responsibility and denouncing what is happening and those who played a role in the propaganda machine--put Hannity, Rush, and all the others out of business for their lies and efforts to fuel discord with outrage and misinformation. I bet they won't though. They'll continue to tune in to Hannity to hear about the next Liberal scandal or how they were justified to be wrong in the past and how they weren't actually wrong in the first place. The next Democrat President will be demonized and the same destructive impulses and cycle will continue: crucify the Liberal no matter what, forgive the Conservative no matter what.
See the thing is with the OJ case is I don't know that I have ever heard a single person say "Yeah, I thought OJ was innocent and boy was I wrong". It isn't really that they ever admitted they were wrong in the years since. They just quietly accepted the opposite position over time. I think that will happen with Trump.sycasey said:And there is also a whole media apparatus built up over decades to support the Republican Party and conservative politics in general, and now that Trump is at the head of those things the apparatus is basically forced to support him to continue their business model. That means the people who don't want to admit they were wrong can also just turn to media sources that will keep telling them they were never wrong.OaktownBear said:I've said from the beginning that the parallel is to the OJ is innocent crowd. People jumped to support him with few facts, believed every conspiracy theory, and the more obvious it became that he was guilty, the more they dug in their heels. People forget that a large percentage of the population not only thought OJ was innocent, they fought that fight hard. Now the concept of OJ being innocent is a joke. The Trump presidency has been one big OJ trial. People projected what they wanted onto Trump. They supported an illusion. He isn't at all what they asked for, but they keep going.B.A. Bearacus said:
Excerpts:
When the accommodation involves compromising one's sense of integrity, the tensions are reduced when others join in the effort. This creates a powerful sense of cohesion, harmony and group think. The greater the compromise, the more fierce the justification for it and the greater the need to denounce those who call them out for their compromise. "In response," this person said to me, "an 'us versus them' mentality emerges, sometimes quite viciously."
Month after month, with one outrageous, norm-shattering comment or action giving way to another, Republicans who in the past could never have envisioned being Trump acolytes, have been ground down. Accommodation has kicked in, which is a psychological relief to many of them. For those who view Mr. Trump as a model politician who voices their grievances and fights with a viciousness they have long hoped for from Republicans, the accommodation is not just a relief but a source of delight.
As the psychologist I spoke to put it to me, many Republicans "are nearly unrecognizable versions of themselves pre-Trump. At this stage it's less about defending Trump; they are defending their own defense of Trump."
"At this point," this person went on, "condemnation of Trump is condemnation of themselves. They've let too much go by to try and assert moral high ground now. Calling out another is one thing; calling out yourself is quite another."
As a result, many in Mr. Trump's party not only refuse to challenge his maliciousness; they have adopted his approach. They have embraced his "will to power" worldview. After dealing with Mr. Trump, "you're definitely denuded and jaded," one Republican who has interacted recently with members of Congress told me. "Your sense of perspective is totally warped."
Many Republicans now find themselves in a place they never envisioned not only defending Mr. Trump but doing so with gusto. Those who once defended traditional values now relish siding with the Great Transgressor. "Owning the libs" turns out to be a lot of fun. But it also comes at a high cost.
I think in both cases part of it stems from the "other side" telling them from the beginning (justifiably in my opinion) that they were being morons and they weren't looking at the actual facts. It is hard to come to grips with the fact that you have been a moron and to have to tell the jerks that were calling you a moron that yes, you were a moron. With OJ, basically we got through the trials, he ended up in jail anyway for something else, the story finally died out, and as years went by people started to see sense because we were beyond the point where they had to stand up and declare a change of mind. I think the same thing is going to happen here. 15 years after Trump has gone away, you will find a low percentage of the population supports his act. But at this point, they not only have to publicly admit they were wrong, they have to publicly admit they were stupid.
I'm not sure how that all shakes out when Trump is gone. It will be quite a ride.
And to be clear, I'm not saying they will give up conservative views. Just that they will realize Trump is a horrible vehicle for those views.
Yeah, I suppose the conservative media apparatus will have to move on once Trump has moved on, so everyone who follows it will have to move on too.OaktownBear said:See the thing is with the OJ case is I don't know that I have ever heard a single person say "Yeah, I thought OJ was innocent and boy was I wrong". It isn't really that they ever admitted they were wrong in the years since. They just quietly accepted the opposite position over time. I think that will happen with Trump.sycasey said:And there is also a whole media apparatus built up over decades to support the Republican Party and conservative politics in general, and now that Trump is at the head of those things the apparatus is basically forced to support him to continue their business model. That means the people who don't want to admit they were wrong can also just turn to media sources that will keep telling them they were never wrong.OaktownBear said:I've said from the beginning that the parallel is to the OJ is innocent crowd. People jumped to support him with few facts, believed every conspiracy theory, and the more obvious it became that he was guilty, the more they dug in their heels. People forget that a large percentage of the population not only thought OJ was innocent, they fought that fight hard. Now the concept of OJ being innocent is a joke. The Trump presidency has been one big OJ trial. People projected what they wanted onto Trump. They supported an illusion. He isn't at all what they asked for, but they keep going.B.A. Bearacus said:
Excerpts:
When the accommodation involves compromising one's sense of integrity, the tensions are reduced when others join in the effort. This creates a powerful sense of cohesion, harmony and group think. The greater the compromise, the more fierce the justification for it and the greater the need to denounce those who call them out for their compromise. "In response," this person said to me, "an 'us versus them' mentality emerges, sometimes quite viciously."
Month after month, with one outrageous, norm-shattering comment or action giving way to another, Republicans who in the past could never have envisioned being Trump acolytes, have been ground down. Accommodation has kicked in, which is a psychological relief to many of them. For those who view Mr. Trump as a model politician who voices their grievances and fights with a viciousness they have long hoped for from Republicans, the accommodation is not just a relief but a source of delight.
As the psychologist I spoke to put it to me, many Republicans "are nearly unrecognizable versions of themselves pre-Trump. At this stage it's less about defending Trump; they are defending their own defense of Trump."
"At this point," this person went on, "condemnation of Trump is condemnation of themselves. They've let too much go by to try and assert moral high ground now. Calling out another is one thing; calling out yourself is quite another."
As a result, many in Mr. Trump's party not only refuse to challenge his maliciousness; they have adopted his approach. They have embraced his "will to power" worldview. After dealing with Mr. Trump, "you're definitely denuded and jaded," one Republican who has interacted recently with members of Congress told me. "Your sense of perspective is totally warped."
Many Republicans now find themselves in a place they never envisioned not only defending Mr. Trump but doing so with gusto. Those who once defended traditional values now relish siding with the Great Transgressor. "Owning the libs" turns out to be a lot of fun. But it also comes at a high cost.
I think in both cases part of it stems from the "other side" telling them from the beginning (justifiably in my opinion) that they were being morons and they weren't looking at the actual facts. It is hard to come to grips with the fact that you have been a moron and to have to tell the jerks that were calling you a moron that yes, you were a moron. With OJ, basically we got through the trials, he ended up in jail anyway for something else, the story finally died out, and as years went by people started to see sense because we were beyond the point where they had to stand up and declare a change of mind. I think the same thing is going to happen here. 15 years after Trump has gone away, you will find a low percentage of the population supports his act. But at this point, they not only have to publicly admit they were wrong, they have to publicly admit they were stupid.
I'm not sure how that all shakes out when Trump is gone. It will be quite a ride.
And to be clear, I'm not saying they will give up conservative views. Just that they will realize Trump is a horrible vehicle for those views.
Fox News is currently planning its post-Trump business model.sycasey said:Yeah, I suppose the conservative media apparatus will have to move on once Trump has moved on, so everyone who follows it will have to move on too.OaktownBear said:See the thing is with the OJ case is I don't know that I have ever heard a single person say "Yeah, I thought OJ was innocent and boy was I wrong". It isn't really that they ever admitted they were wrong in the years since. They just quietly accepted the opposite position over time. I think that will happen with Trump.sycasey said:And there is also a whole media apparatus built up over decades to support the Republican Party and conservative politics in general, and now that Trump is at the head of those things the apparatus is basically forced to support him to continue their business model. That means the people who don't want to admit they were wrong can also just turn to media sources that will keep telling them they were never wrong.OaktownBear said:I've said from the beginning that the parallel is to the OJ is innocent crowd. People jumped to support him with few facts, believed every conspiracy theory, and the more obvious it became that he was guilty, the more they dug in their heels. People forget that a large percentage of the population not only thought OJ was innocent, they fought that fight hard. Now the concept of OJ being innocent is a joke. The Trump presidency has been one big OJ trial. People projected what they wanted onto Trump. They supported an illusion. He isn't at all what they asked for, but they keep going.B.A. Bearacus said:
Excerpts:
When the accommodation involves compromising one's sense of integrity, the tensions are reduced when others join in the effort. This creates a powerful sense of cohesion, harmony and group think. The greater the compromise, the more fierce the justification for it and the greater the need to denounce those who call them out for their compromise. "In response," this person said to me, "an 'us versus them' mentality emerges, sometimes quite viciously."
Month after month, with one outrageous, norm-shattering comment or action giving way to another, Republicans who in the past could never have envisioned being Trump acolytes, have been ground down. Accommodation has kicked in, which is a psychological relief to many of them. For those who view Mr. Trump as a model politician who voices their grievances and fights with a viciousness they have long hoped for from Republicans, the accommodation is not just a relief but a source of delight.
As the psychologist I spoke to put it to me, many Republicans "are nearly unrecognizable versions of themselves pre-Trump. At this stage it's less about defending Trump; they are defending their own defense of Trump."
"At this point," this person went on, "condemnation of Trump is condemnation of themselves. They've let too much go by to try and assert moral high ground now. Calling out another is one thing; calling out yourself is quite another."
As a result, many in Mr. Trump's party not only refuse to challenge his maliciousness; they have adopted his approach. They have embraced his "will to power" worldview. After dealing with Mr. Trump, "you're definitely denuded and jaded," one Republican who has interacted recently with members of Congress told me. "Your sense of perspective is totally warped."
Many Republicans now find themselves in a place they never envisioned not only defending Mr. Trump but doing so with gusto. Those who once defended traditional values now relish siding with the Great Transgressor. "Owning the libs" turns out to be a lot of fun. But it also comes at a high cost.
I think in both cases part of it stems from the "other side" telling them from the beginning (justifiably in my opinion) that they were being morons and they weren't looking at the actual facts. It is hard to come to grips with the fact that you have been a moron and to have to tell the jerks that were calling you a moron that yes, you were a moron. With OJ, basically we got through the trials, he ended up in jail anyway for something else, the story finally died out, and as years went by people started to see sense because we were beyond the point where they had to stand up and declare a change of mind. I think the same thing is going to happen here. 15 years after Trump has gone away, you will find a low percentage of the population supports his act. But at this point, they not only have to publicly admit they were wrong, they have to publicly admit they were stupid.
I'm not sure how that all shakes out when Trump is gone. It will be quite a ride.
And to be clear, I'm not saying they will give up conservative views. Just that they will realize Trump is a horrible vehicle for those views.
"I never really supportedOaktownBear said:I've said from the beginning that the parallel is to the OJ is innocent crowd. People jumped to support him with few facts, believed every conspiracy theory, and the more obvious it became that he was guilty, the more they dug in their heels. People forget that a large percentage of the population not only thought OJ was innocent, they fought that fight hard. Now the concept of OJ being innocent is a joke. The Trump presidency has been one big OJ trial. People projected what they wanted onto Trump. They supported an illusion. He isn't at all what they asked for, but they keep going.B.A. Bearacus said:
Excerpts:
When the accommodation involves compromising one's sense of integrity, the tensions are reduced when others join in the effort. This creates a powerful sense of cohesion, harmony and group think. The greater the compromise, the more fierce the justification for it and the greater the need to denounce those who call them out for their compromise. "In response," this person said to me, "an 'us versus them' mentality emerges, sometimes quite viciously."
Month after month, with one outrageous, norm-shattering comment or action giving way to another, Republicans who in the past could never have envisioned being Trump acolytes, have been ground down. Accommodation has kicked in, which is a psychological relief to many of them. For those who view Mr. Trump as a model politician who voices their grievances and fights with a viciousness they have long hoped for from Republicans, the accommodation is not just a relief but a source of delight.
As the psychologist I spoke to put it to me, many Republicans "are nearly unrecognizable versions of themselves pre-Trump. At this stage it's less about defending Trump; they are defending their own defense of Trump."
"At this point," this person went on, "condemnation of Trump is condemnation of themselves. They've let too much go by to try and assert moral high ground now. Calling out another is one thing; calling out yourself is quite another."
As a result, many in Mr. Trump's party not only refuse to challenge his maliciousness; they have adopted his approach. They have embraced his "will to power" worldview. After dealing with Mr. Trump, "you're definitely denuded and jaded," one Republican who has interacted recently with members of Congress told me. "Your sense of perspective is totally warped."
Many Republicans now find themselves in a place they never envisioned not only defending Mr. Trump but doing so with gusto. Those who once defended traditional values now relish siding with the Great Transgressor. "Owning the libs" turns out to be a lot of fun. But it also comes at a high cost.
I think in both cases part of it stems from the "other side" telling them from the beginning (justifiably in my opinion) that they were being morons and they weren't looking at the actual facts. It is hard to come to grips with the fact that you have been a moron and to have to tell the jerks that were calling you a moron that yes, you were a moron. With OJ, basically we got through the trials, he ended up in jail anyway for something else, the story finally died out, and as years went by people started to see sense because we were beyond the point where they had to stand up and declare a change of mind. I think the same thing is going to happen here. 15 years after Trump has gone away, you will find a low percentage of the population supports his act. But at this point, they not only have to publicly admit they were wrong, they have to publicly admit they were stupid.
"If you and all your Republican friends never supported him how did he have 95% Republican approval and win an election?"
<shoulder shrug>
I have literally had this conversation multiple times and fully expect to have it again
I suppose that even though they didn't "support" him they surely voted for him, because you know, Democrats are all crazy.dajo9 said:"I never really supportedOaktownBear said:I've said from the beginning that the parallel is to the OJ is innocent crowd. People jumped to support him with few facts, believed every conspiracy theory, and the more obvious it became that he was guilty, the more they dug in their heels. People forget that a large percentage of the population not only thought OJ was innocent, they fought that fight hard. Now the concept of OJ being innocent is a joke. The Trump presidency has been one big OJ trial. People projected what they wanted onto Trump. They supported an illusion. He isn't at all what they asked for, but they keep going.B.A. Bearacus said:
Excerpts:
When the accommodation involves compromising one's sense of integrity, the tensions are reduced when others join in the effort. This creates a powerful sense of cohesion, harmony and group think. The greater the compromise, the more fierce the justification for it and the greater the need to denounce those who call them out for their compromise. "In response," this person said to me, "an 'us versus them' mentality emerges, sometimes quite viciously."
Month after month, with one outrageous, norm-shattering comment or action giving way to another, Republicans who in the past could never have envisioned being Trump acolytes, have been ground down. Accommodation has kicked in, which is a psychological relief to many of them. For those who view Mr. Trump as a model politician who voices their grievances and fights with a viciousness they have long hoped for from Republicans, the accommodation is not just a relief but a source of delight.
As the psychologist I spoke to put it to me, many Republicans "are nearly unrecognizable versions of themselves pre-Trump. At this stage it's less about defending Trump; they are defending their own defense of Trump."
"At this point," this person went on, "condemnation of Trump is condemnation of themselves. They've let too much go by to try and assert moral high ground now. Calling out another is one thing; calling out yourself is quite another."
As a result, many in Mr. Trump's party not only refuse to challenge his maliciousness; they have adopted his approach. They have embraced his "will to power" worldview. After dealing with Mr. Trump, "you're definitely denuded and jaded," one Republican who has interacted recently with members of Congress told me. "Your sense of perspective is totally warped."
Many Republicans now find themselves in a place they never envisioned not only defending Mr. Trump but doing so with gusto. Those who once defended traditional values now relish siding with the Great Transgressor. "Owning the libs" turns out to be a lot of fun. But it also comes at a high cost.
I think in both cases part of it stems from the "other side" telling them from the beginning (justifiably in my opinion) that they were being morons and they weren't looking at the actual facts. It is hard to come to grips with the fact that you have been a moron and to have to tell the jerks that were calling you a moron that yes, you were a moron. With OJ, basically we got through the trials, he ended up in jail anyway for something else, the story finally died out, and as years went by people started to see sense because we were beyond the point where they had to stand up and declare a change of mind. I think the same thing is going to happen here. 15 years after Trump has gone away, you will find a low percentage of the population supports his act. But at this point, they not only have to publicly admit they were wrong, they have to publicly admit they were stupid.BushTrump because he was never a conservative"
"If you and all your Republican friends never supported him how did he have 95% Republican approval and win an election?"
<shoulder shrug>
I have literally had this conversation multiple times and fully expect to have it again
"I never really liked Trump, but there was no way I could vote for Hillary."sycasey said:I suppose that even though they didn't "support" him they surely voted for him, because you know, Democrats are all crazy.dajo9 said:"I never really supportedOaktownBear said:I've said from the beginning that the parallel is to the OJ is innocent crowd. People jumped to support him with few facts, believed every conspiracy theory, and the more obvious it became that he was guilty, the more they dug in their heels. People forget that a large percentage of the population not only thought OJ was innocent, they fought that fight hard. Now the concept of OJ being innocent is a joke. The Trump presidency has been one big OJ trial. People projected what they wanted onto Trump. They supported an illusion. He isn't at all what they asked for, but they keep going.B.A. Bearacus said:
Excerpts:
When the accommodation involves compromising one's sense of integrity, the tensions are reduced when others join in the effort. This creates a powerful sense of cohesion, harmony and group think. The greater the compromise, the more fierce the justification for it and the greater the need to denounce those who call them out for their compromise. "In response," this person said to me, "an 'us versus them' mentality emerges, sometimes quite viciously."
Month after month, with one outrageous, norm-shattering comment or action giving way to another, Republicans who in the past could never have envisioned being Trump acolytes, have been ground down. Accommodation has kicked in, which is a psychological relief to many of them. For those who view Mr. Trump as a model politician who voices their grievances and fights with a viciousness they have long hoped for from Republicans, the accommodation is not just a relief but a source of delight.
As the psychologist I spoke to put it to me, many Republicans "are nearly unrecognizable versions of themselves pre-Trump. At this stage it's less about defending Trump; they are defending their own defense of Trump."
"At this point," this person went on, "condemnation of Trump is condemnation of themselves. They've let too much go by to try and assert moral high ground now. Calling out another is one thing; calling out yourself is quite another."
As a result, many in Mr. Trump's party not only refuse to challenge his maliciousness; they have adopted his approach. They have embraced his "will to power" worldview. After dealing with Mr. Trump, "you're definitely denuded and jaded," one Republican who has interacted recently with members of Congress told me. "Your sense of perspective is totally warped."
Many Republicans now find themselves in a place they never envisioned not only defending Mr. Trump but doing so with gusto. Those who once defended traditional values now relish siding with the Great Transgressor. "Owning the libs" turns out to be a lot of fun. But it also comes at a high cost.
I think in both cases part of it stems from the "other side" telling them from the beginning (justifiably in my opinion) that they were being morons and they weren't looking at the actual facts. It is hard to come to grips with the fact that you have been a moron and to have to tell the jerks that were calling you a moron that yes, you were a moron. With OJ, basically we got through the trials, he ended up in jail anyway for something else, the story finally died out, and as years went by people started to see sense because we were beyond the point where they had to stand up and declare a change of mind. I think the same thing is going to happen here. 15 years after Trump has gone away, you will find a low percentage of the population supports his act. But at this point, they not only have to publicly admit they were wrong, they have to publicly admit they were stupid.BushTrump because he was never a conservative"
"If you and all your Republican friends never supported him how did he have 95% Republican approval and win an election?"
<shoulder shrug>
I have literally had this conversation multiple times and fully expect to have it again
"I'm no big fan of Trump, but Elizabeth Warren is a Socialist."
She might have Socialist leanings but she is more patriotic than the fk**g moron who is been kowtowing to Putin from the start. Please don't deny it!Big C said:
"I'm no big fan of Trump, but Elizabeth Warren is a Socialist."
Sounds like you had lunch with WIAF recently.Big C said:
"I never really liked Trump, but there was no way I could vote for Hillary."
"I'm no big fan of Trump, but Elizabeth Warren is a Socialist."
"And this was the bait that got Sycasey to post his first gif."
Definitely not my first!B.A. Bearacus said:
"And this was the bait that got Sycasey to post his first gif."
I thought OJ was innocent and boy was I wrong. For a fairly long time I thought that he was covering for his son (don't ask). To be honest, I'm not sure when it became super clear that he did it but had a lot to do with how he behaved after his acquittal and less to do with my re-evaluating the publicly available evidence.OaktownBear said:
See the thing is with the OJ case is I don't know that I have ever heard a single person say "Yeah, I thought OJ was innocent and boy was I wrong". It isn't really that they ever admitted they were wrong in the years since. They just quietly accepted the opposite position over time. I think that will happen with Trump.
I should also note that I was not of voting age when the crime and trial occurred.
Dude, I have an Elizabeth Warren neck tattoo. Love me some Pocahontas! (said with humor and love)OBear073akaSMFan said:She might have Socialist leanings but she is more patriotic than the fk**g moron who is been kowtowing to Putin from the start. Please don't deny it!Big C said:
"I'm no big fan of Trump, but Elizabeth Warren is a Socialist."
I'm writing what people said, explaining why they voted for Trump in 2016 and what they might say in 2020. People in California who are reluctant to admit -- in polite company -- that they are actually for Trump.
Sycasey = Jon Cryer.sycasey said:
Definitely not my first!
Does this make you Charlie Sheen?B.A. Bearacus said:Sycasey = Jon Cryer.sycasey said:
Definitely not my first!
Unit2Sucks said:I thought OJ was innocent and boy was I wrong. For a fairly long time I thought that he was covering for his son (don't ask). To be honest, I'm not sure when it became super clear that he did it but had a lot to do with how he behaved after his acquittal and less to do with my re-evaluating the publicly available evidence.OaktownBear said:
See the thing is with the OJ case is I don't know that I have ever heard a single person say "Yeah, I thought OJ was innocent and boy was I wrong". It isn't really that they ever admitted they were wrong in the years since. They just quietly accepted the opposite position over time. I think that will happen with Trump.
I should also note that I was not of voting age when the crime and trial occurred.
20 years ago when my son was in 2nd grade I had to work bingo at the school hall once a month to satisfy parent service hour requirements. A father of one of my son's classmates that worked bingo with me played with the Juice on the Bills. He said when the murders occurred everyone that played ball with him knew he was good for it.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
US attorney general 'met Italian officials to discuss Russiagate'
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/02/us-attorney-general-william-barr-met-italian-officials-to-discuss-russiagate?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
At what point do the taxpayers have a shot at prevailing on a reimbursement claim for having to pay for tRump's Don Quixote investigations? What line has to be crossed? If Sean Hannity alleges Hillary's missing emails are in Bigfoot's cave, do we have to pay for a Barr expedition into the Canadian wilderness?
When 4 of these were spotted roaming the border wall in Nogales, AZ, a taxpayer suit was filed:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/02/us-attorney-general-william-barr-met-italian-officials-to-discuss-russiagate?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
At what point do the taxpayers have a shot at prevailing on a reimbursement claim for having to pay for tRump's Don Quixote investigations? What line has to be crossed? If Sean Hannity alleges Hillary's missing emails are in Bigfoot's cave, do we have to pay for a Barr expedition into the Canadian wilderness?
When 4 of these were spotted roaming the border wall in Nogales, AZ, a taxpayer suit was filed:
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Big C said:Dude, I have an Elizabeth Warren neck tattoo. Love me some Pocahontas! (said with humor and love)OBear073akaSMFan said:She might have Socialist leanings but she is more patriotic than the fk**g moron who is been kowtowing to Putin from the start. Please don't deny it!Big C said:
"I'm no big fan of Trump, but Elizabeth Warren is a Socialist."
I'm writing what people said, explaining why they voted for Trump in 2016 and what they might say in 2020. People in California who are reluctant to admit -- in polite company -- that they are actually for Trump.
My apologies I misread your post!.
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