Shiiiiiiiithole in Chief

22,213 Views | 194 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by bearister
iwantwinners
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cave Bear said:

iwantwinners said:

Quote:

That's fine. I think that "value system" has a better chance to develop if the members of that community are not thrown in jail at higher rates than the rest of the population or prevented from acquiring better jobs because of outside perceptions of said community. I think that those outside perceptions have a better chance of changing if people like you (and that hack Dinseh D'Souza) are not peddling ideas about how "black culture" is inherently flawed and that their problems have nothing to do with racism (current or historical).
This is an invalid argument, as it presupposes if one group has a higher rate of something than it MUST be discrimination. Is racist cops the reason why blacks commit 50% of homicides while being 13% of the population, or that 93% of black victims of crime were perpetrated by other blacks? Is racism why blacks aren't graduating HS at rates close to their peers, or why subcultures within the community promote and glorify all the values the left proselytize about and it's acquiesced by our society in light of their skin color?

Black culture isn't inherently flawed, that's racism, just like it would be to say a certain race is inherently inferior. The fact is that negative subcultures antithetical to flourishing in society developed post-civil rights movement that should render it at the margins of their community, but it doesn't, and it doesn't help that people exalt racism as enemy #1 and the primary obstacle towards achieving success when there are no facts that support it. Regardless of how and what spawned these cultural developments, the primary goal is to change it going forward. Eliminating racism does nothing in this regard if that were possible.
I'm interested in hearing some examples for what kinds of facts could exist that would support it
The #1 enemy of blacks are OTHER blacks according to FBI statistics. Blacks are almost infinitely more likely to be harmed by other blacks than non-blacks let alone police.

Quote:


The FBI released its official crime tally for 2016 on Monday, and the data flies in the face of the rhetoric that professional athletes rehearsed in revived Black Lives Matter protests over the weekend.
Nearly 900 additional blacks were killed in 2016 compared with 2015, bringing the black homicide victim total to 7,881. Those 7,881 "black bodies," in the parlance of Ta-Nehisi Coates, are 1,305 more than the number of white victims (which in this case includes most Hispanics) for the same period, though blacks are only 13 percent of the nation's population.

The increase in black homicides last year comes on top of a previous 900-victim increase between 2014 and 2015.

Who is killing these black victims? Not whites, and not the police, but other blacks.
In 2016, the police fatally shot 233 blacks, the vast majority armed and dangerous, according to the Washington Post. The paper categorized only 16 black male victims of police shootings as "unarmed." That classification masks assaults against officers and violent resistance to arrest.
Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police. In 2015, a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer.
The calls to racism movement are based on lies, the grievance industry is a business, it is a political, social and economic agenda, and it needs to persuade large swaths of people into believing they're victims and are destined for failure until OTHER people change their thoughts.

Quote:

The facts are these: Last year, the police shot 990 people, the vast majority armed or violently resisting arrest, according to the Washington Post's database of fatal police shootings. Whites made up 49.9 percent of those victims, blacks 26 percent. That proportion of black victims is lower than what the black violent crime rate would predict.

Blacks constituted 62 percent of all robbery defendants in America's 75 largest counties in 2009, 57 percent of all murder defendants and 45 percent of all assault defendants, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, even though blacks comprise only 15 percent of the population in those counties.

In New York City, where blacks make up 23 percent of the city's population, blacks commit three-quarters of all shootings and 70 percent of all robberies, according to victims and witnesses in their reports to the NYPD. Whites, by contrast, commit less than 2 percent of all shootings and 4 percent of all robberies, though they are nearly 34 percent of the city's population.

In Chicago, 80 percent of all known murder suspects in 2015 were black, as were 80 percent of all known nonfatal shooting suspects, though they're a little less than a third of the population. Whites made up 0.9 percent of known murder suspects in Chicago in 2015 and 1.4 percent of known nonfatal shooting suspects, though they are about a third of the city's residents.

Gang shootings occur almost exclusively in minority areas. Police use of force is most likely in confrontations with violent and resisting criminals, and those confrontations happen disproportionately in minority communities.

But the Black Lives Matter narrative has nevertheless had an enormous effect on policing and public safety, despite its mendacity. Gun-related murders of officers are up 52 percent this year through Aug. 30 compared to last year. The cop assassinations are only a more extreme version of the Black Lives Matter-inspired hatred that officers working in urban areas encounter on a daily basis.

The result? Violent crime is rising in cities with large black populations. Homicides in 2015 rose anywhere from 54 percent in Washington, DC, to 90 percent in Cleveland. In the nation's 56 largest cities, homicides rose 17 percent in 2015, a nearly unprecedented one-year spike. In the first half of 2016, homicides in 51 large cities were up another 15 percent compared to the same period last year.

The carnage has continued this year. In Chicago alone, at least 15 children under the age of 12 have been shot in the first seven months of 2016, including a 3-year-old boy who is now paralyzed for life following a Father's Day drive-by shooting. While the world knows Michael Brown, whose fatal police shooting in Ferguson, Mo., spurred Black Lives Matter, few people outside these children's immediate communities know their names. Black Lives Matter activists have organized no protests to stigmatize their assailants.

For the past two decades, the country has been talking about phantom police racism in order to avoid talking about a more uncomfortable truth: black crime. But in the era of data-driven law enforcement, policing is simply a function of crime. The best way to lower police-civilian contacts in inner-city neighborhoods would be for children to be raised by their mother and their father in order to radically lower the crime rate there.
More lies about racism:

Quote:

In reality, a randomly selected black man is overwhelmingly unlikely to be a victim of police violence and though white men experience such violence even less often, the disparity is consistent with the racial gap in violent crime, suggesting that the role of racial bias is small.

The media's acceptance of the false narrative poisons the relations between law enforcement and black communities throughout the country and results in violent protests that destroy property and sometimes even claim lives. Perhaps even more importantly, the narrative distracts from far more serious problems that black Americans face.

Let's start with the question of fatal violence. Last year, according to the Washington Post's tally, just 16 unarmed black men, out of a population of more than 20 million, were killed by the police. The year before, the number was 36. These figures are likely close to the number of black men struck by lightning in a given year, considering that happens to about 300 Americans annually and black men are 7 percent of the population. And they include cases where the shooting was justified, even if the person killed was unarmed.

In order to show that, I'm going to use data from the Police-Public Contact Survey (PPCS), which, as its name suggests, provides detailed information about contacts between the police and the public. It's conducted on a regular basis by the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) and is based on a nationally representative sample of more than 70,000 U.S. residents age 16 or older. Respondents are asked whether they had a contact with the police during the past 12 months; if they say they did, they answer a battery of questions about the nature of their last contact, including any use of force. Since the respondents also provide their age, race, gender, etc., we can use this survey to calculate the prevalence of police violence for various demographic groups. The numbers in this piece are from my own analysis of the data, the details and code for which I provide here, but they are consistent with a 2015 report compiled by the BJS itself to the extent the two overlap.

First, despite what the narrative claims, it's not true that black men are constantly stopped by the police for no reason. Indeed, black men are less likely than white men to have contact with the police in any given year, though this includes situations where the respondent called the cops himself: 17.5 percent versus 20.7 percent. Similarly, a black man has on average only 0.32 contacts with the police in any given year, compared with 0.35 contacts for a white man. It's true that black men are overrepresented among people who have many contacts with the police, but not by much. Only 1.5 percent of black men have more than three contacts with the police in any given year, whereas 1.2 percent of white men do.

If we look at how often the police use physical against men of different races, we find that there is indeed a racial disparity, but that this experience is rare across the board. Only 0.6 percent of black men experience physical force by the police in any given year, while approximately 0.2 percent of white men do. To be fair, these are probably slight undercounts, because the survey does not allow us to identify people who did not experience physical force during their most recent contact but did experience such force during a previous contact in the same year.....
The findings of the left-leaning Brookings institute demonstrate it is not racism in a free, civil society that leads to poverty, it is a failure to do three things: graduate HS, get a job and keep it, not having children out of wedlock (single parenthood).

Poverty is not unique to blacks, and the obstacles poor blacks face are the same as any other poor individual, family, and community. Poverty DOES NOT explain the rise in degenerative subcultures and crime in the black community. In the pre-civil rights movement era when racism against blacks was sanctioned by the government and pervasive in culture, blacks were incredibly poorer and less educated than they are today yet their crime rate and single parent household rate (like 15% IIRC) was incredibly low compared to today

Quote:

The "legacy of slavery" argument is not just an excuse for inexcusable behavior in the ghettos. In a larger sense, it is an evasion of responsibility for the disastrous consequences of the prevailing social vision of our times, and the political policies based on that vision, over the past half century.

Anyone who is serious about evidence need only compare black communities as they evolved in the first 100 years after slavery with black communities as they evolved in the first 50 years after the explosive growth of the welfare state, beginning in the 1960s.

You would be hard-pressed to find as many ghetto riots prior to the 1960s as we have seen just in the past year, much less in the 50 years since a wave of such riots swept across the country in 1965.

We are told that such riots are a result of black poverty and white racism. But in fact -- for those who still have some respect for facts -- black poverty was far worse, and white racism was far worse, prior to 1960. But violent crime within black ghettos was far less.

Murder rates among black males were going down repeat, down during the much-lamented 1950s, while it went up after the much celebrated 1960s, reaching levels more than double what they had been before. Most black children were raised in two-parent families prior to the 1960s. But today the great majority of black children are raised in one-parent families.

Such trends are not unique to blacks, nor even to the United States. The welfare state has led to remarkably similar trends among the white underclass in England over the same period. Just read Life at the Bottom, by Theodore Dalrymple, a British physician who worked in a hospital in a white slum neighborhood.

You cannot take any people, of any color, and exempt them from the requirements of civilization including work, behavioral standards, personal responsibility, and all the other basic things that the clever intelligentsia disdain without ruinous consequences to them and to society at large.

There are plenty more facts that fly in the face of the victimhood narrative that minorities are meek, incapable victims of history and an oppressive society, rendering them helpless and at the mercy of external circumstances, not choices. What a condescending view of such humans. That's racism.
Cave Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
iwantwinners said:

Cave Bear said:

iwantwinners said:

Quote:

That's fine. I think that "value system" has a better chance to develop if the members of that community are not thrown in jail at higher rates than the rest of the population or prevented from acquiring better jobs because of outside perceptions of said community. I think that those outside perceptions have a better chance of changing if people like you (and that hack Dinseh D'Souza) are not peddling ideas about how "black culture" is inherently flawed and that their problems have nothing to do with racism (current or historical).
This is an invalid argument, as it presupposes if one group has a higher rate of something than it MUST be discrimination. Is racist cops the reason why blacks commit 50% of homicides while being 13% of the population, or that 93% of black victims of crime were perpetrated by other blacks? Is racism why blacks aren't graduating HS at rates close to their peers, or why subcultures within the community promote and glorify all the values the left proselytize about and it's acquiesced by our society in light of their skin color?

Black culture isn't inherently flawed, that's racism, just like it would be to say a certain race is inherently inferior. The fact is that negative subcultures antithetical to flourishing in society developed post-civil rights movement that should render it at the margins of their community, but it doesn't, and it doesn't help that people exalt racism as enemy #1 and the primary obstacle towards achieving success when there are no facts that support it. Regardless of how and what spawned these cultural developments, the primary goal is to change it going forward. Eliminating racism does nothing in this regard if that were possible.
I'm interested in hearing some examples for what kinds of facts could exist that would support it
The #1 enemy of blacks are OTHER blacks according to FBI statistics. Blacks are almost infinitely more likely to be harmed by other blacks than non-blacks let alone police.

Quote:

nypost lol
The calls to racism movement are based on lies, the grievance industry is a business, it is a political, social and economic agenda, and it needs to persuade large swaths of people into believing they're victims and are destined for failure until OTHER people change their thoughts.

Quote:

more nypost
More lies about racism:

Quote:

national review bs
The findings of the left-leaning Brookings institute demonstrate it is not racism in a free, civil society that leads to poverty, it is a failure to do three things: graduate HS, get a job and keep it, not having children out of wedlock (single parenthood).

Poverty is not unique to blacks, and the obstacles poor blacks face are the same as any other poor individual, family, and community. Poverty DOES NOT explain the rise in degenerative subcultures and crime in the black community. In the pre-civil rights movement era when racism against blacks was sanctioned by the government and pervasive in culture, blacks were incredibly poorer and less educated than they are today yet their crime rate and single parent household rate (like 15% IIRC) was incredibly low compared to today

Quote:

more of same

There are plenty more facts that fly in the face of the victimhood narrative that minorities are meek, incapable victims of history and an oppressive society, rendering them helpless and at the mercy of external circumstances, not choices. What a condescending view of such humans. That's racism.
The 1960s did not destroy the black family in America. Birth rates among unmarried black women were already 12 times higher than white women in 1950. Birth rates among unmarried mothers rose across the racial board in the 60s, a product of the newly permissible sexual mores of the decade combined with comparatively low use in contraception and the illegality of abortion in most circumstances. The rise in unmarried birth rate among white women rose much faster than black women.

Unmarried birth rates for black women actually fell in the 1970s and early 1980s, which is the statistical product of proliferating contraception use and abortion. Unmarried birth rates for white women continued to steadily climb with the women's liberation movement kicking in, finally leveling off in the 1990s. By that point, unmarried birth rates for black women had skyrocketed again, this time because of the mass incarceration of black men which exploded in the mid 1980s thanks to Reagan's draconian and tyrannical War on Drugs, which of course has resulted in a grossly disproportionate percentage of the black male population being incarcerated.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr48/nvs48_16.pdf
https://nces.ed.gov/pubs98/yi/yi07.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_drugs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics_of_incarcerated_African-American_males

Of course racism is at fault for the condition of the black population in the United States. The condition of the black population today is a direct product of slavery (itself based on racism). The black population was emancipated with no education or assets into a white population that despised them, oppressed them, refused to allow them to assimilate and discriminated against them wherever possible. This situation continued for a century, after which the legal oppression diminished somewhat, but everything remains in varying levels to this day. It's why they live in urban bantustans, because they are so strongly hated by the remainder of the country. They live under a siege of hate that I didn't start to appreciate until I discovered the internet and witnessed first hand the stream of racist filth that can be found targeting them. I can believe it's gotten better because they're allowed to sit next to me at the dinner counter now and rise up front in the bus, but racism is still the problem.

Of course the culture of the black population is in distress. Look at what's been done to them and what continues to be done and it should be obvious why. As a whole, this nation has a culture that grew from historic ascendancy and dominance, but not the black population's sub-culture. Theirs grew from subjugation and repression here. What do conservatives say should be done to help repair their culture? Nothing. They expect a self-generated solution from the victim to damage that they -- racist America -- caused and continue to exacerbate. Conservatives would have us continue to abdicate our responsibility to racial equality by this victim blaming. They will fight hard against efforts to redress the situation that do any of the following: enlarge government outlays, present a form of material benefit not already dispensed, or require a fundamental overhaul of the justice system with the objective being to liberalize the system to the modern standard of the western world.

The War on Drugs is over and we lost. We deserved to lose; like in Vietnam we were our worst enemy here and the only sensible thing to do now is to stop the human damage from it. Drug use and possession of personal use drug quantities must be de-criminalized. Treatment should be the sole objective for the vast majority of all cases. Mandatory minimums for non violent drug traffickers must be eliminated. Distribution of personal use quantities of controlled substances should be a civil offense. All drug related sentences must be reviewed and most non-violent offenders should be pardoned.

Those articles you plastered here were terrible, especially that first NYPost article. Please find better literature to support your views.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
'I can believe it's gotten better because they're allowed to sit next to me at the dinner counter now and rise up front in the bus, but racism is still the problem.'

The above statement sounds like this is something that just happened. Perhaps, to you it did. One day you stepped out of your cave and legal segregation was over? Anyway, the above stuff you mentioned ended about 60 years ago. Moreover, areas other than the South have had less segregation and much more opportunity for socioeconomic advancement for all races and creeds.

What year can we move forward and treat everyone equally? Does 2030 work for you?
Cave Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

'I can believe it's gotten better because they're allowed to sit next to me at the dinner counter now and rise up front in the bus, but racism is still the problem.'

The above statement sounds like this is something that just happened. Perhaps, to you it did. One day you stepped out of your cave and legal segregation was over? Anyway, the above stuff you mentioned ended about 60 years ago. Moreover, areas other than the South have had less segregation and much more opportunity for socioeconomic advancement for all races and creeds.

What year can we move forward and treat everyone equally? Does 2030 work for you?
How about when everyone actually is equal? How much of the remaining inequality are you willing to accept in order to quit seeking justice right now? What does it say about you that you just want to sweep the problem under the rug instead of addressing it?
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
What problem do I want to sweep under the rug? Can you clarify what you are assuming about me? For the record, I applaud charitable programs that assist poor communities. One of those gives scholarships in inner cities, plants community gardens, gives counseling to at risk youths, and gives my wife a grant to help offset lost income by practicing family medicine to the uninsured instead of working at private clinics.
Cave Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

What problem do I want to sweep under the rug? Can you clarify what you are assuming about me? For the record, I applaud charitable programs that assist poor communities. One of those gives scholarships in inner cities, plants community gardens, gives counseling to at risk youths, and gives my wife a grant to help offset lost income by practicing family medicine to the uninsured instead of working at private clinics.
The crippling inequality between blacks and the general population in the US. Let's just call everyone equal and move forward, right?
iwantwinners
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cave Bear said:


How about when everyone actually is equal? How much of the remaining inequality are you willing to accept in order to quit seeking justice right now? What does it say about you that you just want to sweep the problem under the rug instead of addressing it?

The crippling inequality between blacks and the general population in the US. Let's just call everyone equal and move forward, right?
my goodness, you employ vapid, empty slogans of virtue like "equality" and "justice" without actually defining them and highlighting how exactly they're not "equal" in the eyes of the law that perpetuates some of their poor outcomes?

What can a black person not do on the basis of their skin color that whites can? Call the DOJ already.

Or are you talking about equity of outcome, because that would be a foolish method of virtue signaling?

Slavery and Jim Crow does not explain fully the nature of outcomes in black communities today. The black poverty rate is 27%, higher than Hispanics (26%) who often have language barriers.

Since you can't change history, the question is what will increase success and entry into the middle and upper economic and cultural classes? Telling people they're helpless victims whose own decisions have little impact relative to an oppressive society where racism destines them to failure? Which, of course, is not true. Or empowering communities by highlighting the bad choices they're making that leads to generational and cyclical poverty and failure? Failure in any community, regardless of race, has nothing to do with 'racism' and everything to do with culture and values. You cannot change your own culture and values when if believe external circumstances destines you to failure.

There is no predetermined amount of black poverty, or white poverty, or black crime, or white crime. This rests on the quality of decisions individuals, families and communities make over time. This requires cultural and value system that corresponds to success in this world, the basic ones outlines quite simply by the Brookings Institute which conveniently is ignored, denied, or dismissed by those who espouse to care the most about these "meek, helpless victims".

Asians earn more than whites per capita. The Japanese were in internment camps half a century ago. But they don't view themselves as indefinite victims, they have a value system that militantly promotes education, family obedience and tradition, social and professional status, and social harmony not antagonism.

The empathy run amok when it comes to various issues of identity and outcomes that manifests itself into virtue signaling disguised as political and policy arguments are harming minorities, not helping them. These crutches, along with slogans like "diversity", "implicit bias", "equality", are espoused ad nauseum without a shred of evidence or being able to explain how and why there is a predetermined level and length of time for underachievement among a particular group in an egalitarian, constitutional society.

No serious person doesn't acknowledge historical discrimination has caused blacks to lag in outcomes and wealth relative to whites. What many reject is the baseless notion that blacks are STILL unequal and that THAT is the cause -- not poor culture, values and decisions -- of poor achievement in areas that are not explained by historical or present racism.

*You can disagree with the conculsions of NYPost writers (if you want to be really, really ideologically biased), but you CANNOT disagree with the FACTS reported by NYPost, because they are available to all and reported elsewhere.
iwantwinners
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cave Bear said:

iwantwinners said:

Cave Bear said:

iwantwinners said:

Quote:

That's fine. I think that "value system" has a better chance to develop if the members of that community are not thrown in jail at higher rates than the rest of the population or prevented from acquiring better jobs because of outside perceptions of said community. I think that those outside perceptions have a better chance of changing if people like you (and that hack Dinseh D'Souza) are not peddling ideas about how "black culture" is inherently flawed and that their problems have nothing to do with racism (current or historical).
This is an invalid argument, as it presupposes if one group has a higher rate of something than it MUST be discrimination. Is racist cops the reason why blacks commit 50% of homicides while being 13% of the population, or that 93% of black victims of crime were perpetrated by other blacks? Is racism why blacks aren't graduating HS at rates close to their peers, or why subcultures within the community promote and glorify all the values the left proselytize about and it's acquiesced by our society in light of their skin color?

Black culture isn't inherently flawed, that's racism, just like it would be to say a certain race is inherently inferior. The fact is that negative subcultures antithetical to flourishing in society developed post-civil rights movement that should render it at the margins of their community, but it doesn't, and it doesn't help that people exalt racism as enemy #1 and the primary obstacle towards achieving success when there are no facts that support it. Regardless of how and what spawned these cultural developments, the primary goal is to change it going forward. Eliminating racism does nothing in this regard if that were possible.
I'm interested in hearing some examples for what kinds of facts could exist that would support it
The #1 enemy of blacks are OTHER blacks according to FBI statistics. Blacks are almost infinitely more likely to be harmed by other blacks than non-blacks let alone police.

Quote:

nypost lol
The calls to racism movement are based on lies, the grievance industry is a business, it is a political, social and economic agenda, and it needs to persuade large swaths of people into believing they're victims and are destined for failure until OTHER people change their thoughts.

Quote:

more nypost
More lies about racism:

Quote:

national review bs
The findings of the left-leaning Brookings institute demonstrate it is not racism in a free, civil society that leads to poverty, it is a failure to do three things: graduate HS, get a job and keep it, not having children out of wedlock (single parenthood).

Poverty is not unique to blacks, and the obstacles poor blacks face are the same as any other poor individual, family, and community. Poverty DOES NOT explain the rise in degenerative subcultures and crime in the black community. In the pre-civil rights movement era when racism against blacks was sanctioned by the government and pervasive in culture, blacks were incredibly poorer and less educated than they are today yet their crime rate and single parent household rate (like 15% IIRC) was incredibly low compared to today

Quote:

more of same

There are plenty more facts that fly in the face of the victimhood narrative that minorities are meek, incapable victims of history and an oppressive society, rendering them helpless and at the mercy of external circumstances, not choices. What a condescending view of such humans. That's racism.
The 1960s did not destroy the black family in America. Birth rates among unmarried black women were already 12 times higher than white women in 1950. Birth rates among unmarried mothers rose across the racial board in the 60s, a product of the newly permissible sexual mores of the decade combined with comparatively low use in contraception and the illegality of abortion in most circumstances. The rise in unmarried birth rate among white women rose much faster than black women.

Unmarried birth rates for black women actually fell in the 1970s and early 1980s, which is the statistical product of proliferating contraception use and abortion. Unmarried birth rates for white women continued to steadily climb with the women's liberation movement kicking in, finally leveling off in the 1990s. By that point, unmarried birth rates for black women had skyrocketed again, this time because of the mass incarceration of black men which exploded in the mid 1980s thanks to Reagan's draconian and tyrannical War on Drugs, which of course has resulted in a grossly disproportionate percentage of the black male population being incarcerated.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr48/nvs48_16.pdf
https://nces.ed.gov/pubs98/yi/yi07.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_drugs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics_of_incarcerated_African-American_males

Of course racism is at fault for the condition of the black population in the United States. The condition of the black population today is a direct product of slavery (itself based on racism). The black population was emancipated with no education or assets into a white population that despised them, oppressed them, refused to allow them to assimilate and discriminated against them wherever possible. This situation continued for a century, after which the legal oppression diminished somewhat, but everything remains in varying levels to this day. It's why they live in urban bantustans, because they are so strongly hated by the remainder of the country. They live under a siege of hate that I didn't start to appreciate until I discovered the internet and witnessed first hand the stream of racist filth that can be found targeting them. I can believe it's gotten better because they're allowed to sit next to me at the dinner counter now and rise up front in the bus, but racism is still the problem.

Of course the culture of the black population is in distress. Look at what's been done to them and what continues to be done and it should be obvious why. As a whole, this nation has a culture that grew from historic ascendancy and dominance, but not the black population's sub-culture. Theirs grew from subjugation and repression here. What do conservatives say should be done to help repair their culture? Nothing. They expect a self-generated solution from the victim to damage that they -- racist America -- caused and continue to exacerbate. Conservatives would have us continue to abdicate our responsibility to racial equality by this victim blaming. They will fight hard against efforts to redress the situation that do any of the following: enlarge government outlays, present a form of material benefit not already dispensed, or require a fundamental overhaul of the justice system with the objective being to liberalize the system to the modern standard of the western world.

The War on Drugs is over and we lost. We deserved to lose; like in Vietnam we were our worst enemy here and the only sensible thing to do now is to stop the human damage from it. Drug use and possession of personal use drug quantities must be de-criminalized. Treatment should be the sole objective for the vast majority of all cases. Mandatory minimums for non violent drug traffickers must be eliminated. Distribution of personal use quantities of controlled substances should be a civil offense. All drug related sentences must be reviewed and most non-violent offenders should be pardoned.

Those articles you plastered here were terrible, especially that first NYPost article. Please find better literature to support your views.
When a standard is not met, lower the standards.

The War on Drugs is stupid. I mean, knowing you live on a crime ridden block where drug trafficking is taking place you can see how benign it is and how it doesn't cripple a community at all.

Definitely no more mandatory minimums. Only mandatory maximums. Lock them up and throw away the key. The bleeding hearts cry a river from their ivory towers over 3 strikes because they don't have to deal with the consequences of these degenerates roaming free on the streets, only other poor and working class people do. How noble of you to stand up for the helpless so they can continue to victimize other helpless people. If after two felonies they don't "get it", they're never going to. Lock them up and throw away the key. Tax money well spent. The success rate of preventing additional victims and harm placed on a civil society when issuing a life sentence is 100%. Beautiful thing.

Every group, community is a victim, of one thing or another, at one time or another. The conservatieves know that government CANNOT fix something that requires a culture and value shift, mainfesting itself in BETTER individual decisions. Cycles of crime and poverty require an act of will.

What more do you want the government, both conservatives and democrats, to do? The poor pay ZERO taxes, their effective tax rates are negative; having a child guarantees 18 years of public subsidies in food, cash, and health care. K-12 education is free. College can be fully financed. This has been the case for over a half century, where blacks demonstrably have access to everything others do, sometimes at the expense of other groups as determined by the courts where racial preferences and discrimination in favor of blacks and minorities are allowed in circumstances "where there is a compelling interest". When you isolate white couples and black couples with the same traits such as level of educational backgrounds, whoda thunkit their incomes are similar.

You stated it yourself, you think conservatives are foolishly leaving a helpless group to sustain it's own current levels of mediocrity into infinity...so what would government do that would be enough in YOUR virtuous mind, and how many decades and centuries to follow after this took place would it be reasonable for the homicide rate, education rate, poverty rate, fatherless rates, etc to be on par with other racial and cultural groups?

Your entire case rests on the fact that it is the government that is impeding, thus has the tools to halt these impediments; that if only the government came in and did what they ought to do (which is?), blacks would flourish in a way that was on par with others. That it is the wand of the government that controls the outcomes of an entire race (how condescending). So, out with it. What do they need to do?
okaydo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
iwantwinners said:

Cave Bear said:


How about when everyone actually is equal? How much of the remaining inequality are you willing to accept in order to quit seeking justice right now? What does it say about you that you just want to sweep the problem under the rug instead of addressing it?

The crippling inequality between blacks and the general population in the US. Let's just call everyone equal and move forward, right?
my goodness, you employ vapid, empty slogans of virtue like "equality" and "justice" without actually defining them and highlighting how exactly they're not "equal" in the eyes of the law that perpetuates some of their poor outcomes?

What can a black person not do on the basis of their skin color that whites can? Call the DOJ already.

Or are you talking about equity of outcome, because that would be a foolish method of virtue signaling?

Slavery and Jim Crow does not explain fully the nature of outcomes in black communities today. The black poverty rate is 27%, higher than Hispanics (26%) who often have language barriers.

Since you can't change history, the question is what will increase success and entry into the middle and upper economic and cultural classes? Telling people they're helpless victims whose own decisions have little impact relative to an oppressive society where racism destines them to failure? Which, of course, is not true. Or empowering communities by highlighting the bad choices they're making that leads to generational and cyclical poverty and failure? Failure in any community, regardless of race, has nothing to do with 'racism' and everything to do with culture and values. You cannot change your own culture and values when if believe external circumstances destines you to failure.

There is no predetermined amount of black poverty, or white poverty, or black crime, or white crime. This rests on the quality of decisions individuals, families and communities make over time. This requires cultural and value system that corresponds to success in this world, the basic ones outlines quite simply by the Brookings Institute which conveniently is ignored, denied, or dismissed by those who espouse to care the most about these "meek, helpless victims".

Asians earn more than whites per capita. The Japanese were in internment camps half a century ago. But they don't view themselves as indefinite victims, they have a value system that militantly promotes education, family obedience and tradition, social and professional status, and social harmony not antagonism.

The empathy run amok when it comes to various issues of identity and outcomes that manifests itself into virtue signaling disguised as political and policy arguments are harming minorities, not helping them. These crutches, along with slogans like "diversity", "implicit bias", "equality", are espoused ad nauseum without a shred of evidence or being able to explain how and why there is a predetermined level and length of time for underachievement among a particular group in an egalitarian, constitutional society.

No serious person doesn't acknowledge historical discrimination has caused blacks to lag in outcomes and wealth relative to whites. What many reject is the baseless notion that blacks are STILL unequal and that THAT is the cause -- not poor culture, values and decisions -- of poor achievement in areas that are not explained by historical or present racism.

*You can disagree with the conculsions of NYPost writers (if you want to be really, really ideologically biased), but you CANNOT disagree with the FACTS reported by NYPost, because they are available to all and reported elsewhere.


There are nearly 22 million Asian Americans. There are 1.5 million Japanese Americans.

It's safe to assume that not all Japanese Americans are descended from those locked up in internment camps.



iwantwinners
How long do you want to ignore this user?
okaydo said:




There are nearly 22 million Asian Americans. There are 1.5 million Japanese Americans.

It's safe to assume that not all Japanese Americans are descended from those locked up in internment camps.




Odd that that is what you chose to respond to from that post, but I would respond to yours by pointing out you seem to be saying present failures only invalidate culpability if you are descendants of victims. Why? What are the obstacles young black males experience that his peers do not on the basis that his great, great grandfather was a slave and his grandfather grew up pre-civil rights act? This young man's life experience is one that consists of government-backed racial preferences in his favor, a full welfare state that will subsidize his life, education and opprotunities until he earns a decent income and be self-sufficient.

Again, this crutch of clinging to historical oppression and its "residue" as this mythical cloud hanging over present day black people's lives, many of whom at this point HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED DISCRIMINATION in their lives, and paralyzing them into poor decisions, cultures and attitudes is demonstrably false. Young black males are actually being convinced that they are victims. Kids who have don't know what it's like to live in a world where races weren't equal. But being a victim is alluring for many, it affords you many things in this culture and can be mentally and intellectually intoxicating.
okaydo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
White people have been very successful. Look at how the Jews thrived after the Holocaust!
iwantwinners
How long do you want to ignore this user?
okaydo said:

White people have been very successful. Look at how the Jews thrived after the Holocaust!
Is this what people do when they can't address and grapple with an argument
wadewilson
How long do you want to ignore this user?
dunno if trump are bad president or bad comedian
calbear93
How long do you want to ignore this user?
iwantwinners said:

okaydo said:




There are nearly 22 million Asian Americans. There are 1.5 million Japanese Americans.

It's safe to assume that not all Japanese Americans are descended from those locked up in internment camps.




Odd that that is what you chose to respond to from that post, but I would respond to yours by pointing out you seem to be saying present failures only invalidate culpability if you are descendants of victims. Why? What are the obstacles young black males experience that his peers do not on the basis that his great, great grandfather was a slave and his grandfather grew up pre-civil rights act? This young man's life experience is one that consists of government-backed racial preferences in his favor, a full welfare state that will subsidize his life, education and opprotunities until he earns a decent income and be self-sufficient.

Again, this crutch of clinging to historical oppression and its "residue" as this mythical cloud hanging over present day black people's lives, many of whom at this point HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED DISCRIMINATION in their lives, and paralyzing them into poor decisions, cultures and attitudes is demonstrably false. Young black males are actually being convinced that they are victims. Kids who have don't know what it's like to live in a world where races weren't equal. But being a victim is alluring for many, it affords you many things in this culture and can be mentally and intellectually intoxicating.
While no one sane will argue that our history was not one of shameful discrimination and that history doesn't impact where one starts in life, we need to move away from this fallacy that we all deserve to start from the same place, that life is fair or that anyone other oneself is a better solver of one's problems. Whether it's beauty, location of birth (e.g., being born in the deep south), wealth of the parents independent of racial identity, etc., life is not fair, and it is not the burden of those blessed to have found themselves in an above average situation to make life fair in all aspects. We should abandon the insipid attitude that those who had nothing to do with the discrimination (should beautiful people scar their face to level the playing field of historical prejudice toward beautiful people in mating, careers, etc.?) should carry guilt and penalty and that those who are now not facing the historical barriers other than legacy should feel forever entitled at the cost of those not guilty. That agenda is creating a bigger divide in our country more so than Trump ever could. Trump is just a byproduct of the left's identity politics and false moral superiority. The left played favorites based on race, gender, etc. way before Trump ever did with immigration. We should treat each other fairly and care for one another irrespective of race, gender, religion, sexuality, but this constant self-congratulatory guilt and self-defeating entitlement hasn't made the underlying situation any better (except maybe create false sense of moral superiority without any actual sacrifice or action by those who still go to their gentrified neighborhood away from those they would profess with flapping lips desperately need their rescue because those poor folks are so unable to save themselves).
iwantwinners
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calbear93 said:

iwantwinners said:

okaydo said:




There are nearly 22 million Asian Americans. There are 1.5 million Japanese Americans.

It's safe to assume that not all Japanese Americans are descended from those locked up in internment camps.




Odd that that is what you chose to respond to from that post, but I would respond to yours by pointing out you seem to be saying present failures only invalidate culpability if you are descendants of victims. Why? What are the obstacles young black males experience that his peers do not on the basis that his great, great grandfather was a slave and his grandfather grew up pre-civil rights act? This young man's life experience is one that consists of government-backed racial preferences in his favor, a full welfare state that will subsidize his life, education and opprotunities until he earns a decent income and be self-sufficient.

Again, this crutch of clinging to historical oppression and its "residue" as this mythical cloud hanging over present day black people's lives, many of whom at this point HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED DISCRIMINATION in their lives, and paralyzing them into poor decisions, cultures and attitudes is demonstrably false. Young black males are actually being convinced that they are victims. Kids who have don't know what it's like to live in a world where races weren't equal. But being a victim is alluring for many, it affords you many things in this culture and can be mentally and intellectually intoxicating.
While no one sane will argue that our history was not one of shameful discrimination and that history doesn't impact where one starts in life, we need to move away from this fallacy that we all deserve to start from the same place, that life is fair or that anyone other oneself is a better solver of one's problems. Whether it's beauty, location of birth (e.g., being born in the deep south), wealth of the parents independent of racial identity, etc., life is not fair, and it is not the burden of those blessed to have found themselves in an above average situation to make life fair in all aspects. We should abandon the insipid attitude that those who had nothing to do with the discrimination (should beautiful people scar their face to level the playing field of historical prejudice toward beautiful people in mating, careers, etc.?) should carry guilt and penalty and that those who are now not facing the historical barriers other than legacy should feel forever entitled at the cost of those not guilty. That agenda is creating a bigger divide in our country more so than Trump ever could. Trump is just a byproduct of the left's identity politics and false moral superiority. The left played favorites based on race, gender, etc. way before Trump ever did with immigration. We should treat each other fairly and care for one another irrespective of race, gender, religion, sexuality, but this constant self-congratulatory guilt and self-defeating entitlement hasn't made the underlying situation any better (except maybe create false sense of moral superiority without any actual sacrifice or action by those who still go to their gentrified neighborhood away from those they would profess with flapping lips desperately need their rescue because those poor folks are so unable to save themselves).
Nobody accepts it, but I tell those around me who are still bent about Nov 2016 is that the Trump presidency was created by the left.

The radical left, whose tenets have infiltrated mainstream liberal base to a degree as part of the new paradigm, believes in correcting for history not by empowering higher degrees of equality, civil rights, justice and fairness but by swinging the pendulum of identity politics, government-sanctioned preferences and discrimination based on immutable characteristics and speech in the opposite direction. They want to revert back to days of 'separate but equal' just in reverse under the disguise of moral superiority -- and they call this JUSTICE.

Honest leftists will simply acknowledge this quest for violating groups based on their historical identities as the 'price of progress' (i.e. violating freedoms and principles of fairness and justice to favor certain identity groups to correct for history) while others, the more common version, who maintain that this method is not just morally justified but morally superior and indisputably correct are actually more dangerous, as they find no moral dilemma in seeking out their virtuous ends. Tyrants typically believe they are morally superior, thus there is no "ends justifying the means" dilemma. The means are justified.

A key component of spreading this message and allowing it to successfully marinate is also seen in some of these threads where an irrational, narrow and often misguided emotional and targeted empathy is exalted as a political and moral argument when it is neither, and it's successful because it empowers many of its believers to feel morally superior, a vindication of the self. Aside from abject racists and sexists, people generally don't care about the color of your skin or your sex. It doesn't even occur to them so they don't care. To the extent that someone does and uses it against you in your quest for life, liberty, property etc there is legal recourse. But immutable characteristics that are arbitrary in the value of an individual seem to be of utmost importance to those who are shouting the loudest about it. There is nothing more condescending, racist and immoral than asserting a group to be victims in a free society on the basis of their immutable characteristics,
FuzzyWuzzy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
iwantwinners said:

calbear93 said:

iwantwinners said:

okaydo said:




There are nearly 22 million Asian Americans. There are 1.5 million Japanese Americans.

It's safe to assume that not all Japanese Americans are descended from those locked up in internment camps.




Odd that that is what you chose to respond to from that post, but I would respond to yours by pointing out you seem to be saying present failures only invalidate culpability if you are descendants of victims. Why? What are the obstacles young black males experience that his peers do not on the basis that his great, great grandfather was a slave and his grandfather grew up pre-civil rights act? This young man's life experience is one that consists of government-backed racial preferences in his favor, a full welfare state that will subsidize his life, education and opprotunities until he earns a decent income and be self-sufficient.

Again, this crutch of clinging to historical oppression and its "residue" as this mythical cloud hanging over present day black people's lives, many of whom at this point HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED DISCRIMINATION in their lives, and paralyzing them into poor decisions, cultures and attitudes is demonstrably false. Young black males are actually being convinced that they are victims. Kids who have don't know what it's like to live in a world where races weren't equal. But being a victim is alluring for many, it affords you many things in this culture and can be mentally and intellectually intoxicating.
While no one sane will argue that our history was not one of shameful discrimination and that history doesn't impact where one starts in life, we need to move away from this fallacy that we all deserve to start from the same place, that life is fair or that anyone other oneself is a better solver of one's problems. Whether it's beauty, location of birth (e.g., being born in the deep south), wealth of the parents independent of racial identity, etc., life is not fair, and it is not the burden of those blessed to have found themselves in an above average situation to make life fair in all aspects. We should abandon the insipid attitude that those who had nothing to do with the discrimination (should beautiful people scar their face to level the playing field of historical prejudice toward beautiful people in mating, careers, etc.?) should carry guilt and penalty and that those who are now not facing the historical barriers other than legacy should feel forever entitled at the cost of those not guilty. That agenda is creating a bigger divide in our country more so than Trump ever could. Trump is just a byproduct of the left's identity politics and false moral superiority. The left played favorites based on race, gender, etc. way before Trump ever did with immigration. We should treat each other fairly and care for one another irrespective of race, gender, religion, sexuality, but this constant self-congratulatory guilt and self-defeating entitlement hasn't made the underlying situation any better (except maybe create false sense of moral superiority without any actual sacrifice or action by those who still go to their gentrified neighborhood away from those they would profess with flapping lips desperately need their rescue because those poor folks are so unable to save themselves).
Nobody accepts it, but I tell those around me who are still bent about Nov 2016 is that the Trump presidency was created by the left.

The radical left, whose tenets have infiltrated mainstream liberal base to a degree as part of the new paradigm, believes in correcting for history not by empowering higher degrees of equality, civil rights, justice and fairness but by swinging the pendulum of identity politics, government-sanctioned preferences and discrimination based on immutable characteristics and speech in the opposite direction. They want to revert back to days of 'separate but equal' just in reverse under the disguise of moral superiority -- and they call this JUSTICE.

Honest leftists will simply acknowledge this quest for violating groups based on their historical identities as the 'price of progress' (i.e. violating freedoms and principles of fairness and justice to favor certain identity groups to correct for history) while others, the more common version, who maintain that this method is not just morally justified but morally superior and indisputably correct are actually more dangerous, as they find no moral dilemma in seeking out their virtuous ends. Tyrants typically believe they are morally superior, thus there is no "ends justifying the means" dilemma. The means are justified.

A key component of spreading this message and allowing it to successfully marinate is also seen in some of these threads where an irrational, narrow and often misguided emotional and targeted empathy is exalted as a political and moral argument when it is neither, and it's successful because it empowers many of its believers to feel morally superior, a vindication of the self. Aside from abject racists and sexists, people generally don't care about the color of your skin or your sex. It doesn't even occur to them so they don't care. To the extent that someone does and uses it against you in your quest for life, liberty, property etc there is legal recourse. But immutable characteristics that are arbitrary in the value of an individual seem to be of utmost importance to those who are shouting the loudest about it. There is nothing more condescending, racist and immoral than asserting a group to be victims in a free society on the basis of their immutable characteristics,
If we take your argument as irrefutably true, what policies or laws would you do away with?

Affirmative action in government contracting and public school admissions, I presume.

What about affirmative action in private colleges who receive governmental research grants or governmental backed financial aid to its students?

Laws or policies against discrimination in the armed forces (race, gender, transgender, sexual orientation, etc.)?

Marriage equality?

Laws against racial discrimination by private-enterprise landlords, hotels, restaurants and other privately-owned facilities open to the public?

Laws ensuring equal voting opportunities including laws against race based gerrymandering?

A church that gets income tax exemption?

What about government subsidies for the poor that in practice tend to benefit racial minorities more than whites?

How does your worldview work in practice. It sounds like maybe only the affirmative action government contracting and public school admissions would get the axe.

bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Holy sh*t




https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/7vtkcf/bad_hair_day/?st=JDDUTLDA&sh=d8492a74
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
FuzzyWuzzy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:

Holy sh*t




https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/7vtkcf/bad_hair_day/?st=JDDUTLDA&sh=d8492a74
Lol, keep the hat on Cadet Bone Spurs!
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FuzzyWuzzy said:

bearister said:

Holy sh*t




https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/7vtkcf/bad_hair_day/?st=JDDUTLDA&sh=d8492a74
Lol, keep the hat on Cadet Bone Spurs!


He looks like Jim Carey's Fire Marshall Bill from Living Color.

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
iwantwinners
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Quote:

what policies or laws would you do away with?
My 2 cents

Affirmative action in government contracting and public school admissions, I presume. AXE. AA is soft racism that arbitrarily prefers and discriminates based on racial identity, a violation of federal law by my lights. That the SCOTUS upheld "racial preferences" aimed at a "compelling interest" (diversity of immutable characteristics like race, gender is not inherently moral or immoral, it is amoral and provides no inherent or tangible value in and of itself) is one of the worst court decisions IMO.

What about affirmative action in private colleges who receive government research grants or government-backed financial aid to its students? AXE. Same reason. Private or public, you cannot discriminate. It's just following the rules MLK and most of the country fought for. The cause (research grants) is irrelevant in the context of its constitutionality or morality.

Laws or policies against discrimination in the armed forces (race, gender, transgender, sexual orientation, etc.)? There is discrimination against transgenders, but that's a choice while the other categories are not. I disagree with it from a policy standpoint, but I don't think it's unconstitutional.

Marriage equality? I don't know what you mean by equality in this context. But I don't have a passionate objection to the court's ruling on gay marriage. The court followed the logic of the law. As long as government is involved in issuing marriage licenses, discriminating based on sex is illegal.

Laws against racial discrimination by private-enterprise landlords, hotels, restaurants and other privately-owned facilities open to the public? Stay. This law does not mandate racial preferences, it is anti-discrimination (for ALL). This type of discrimination will always happen to some degree because it's hard to prove racial discrimination, but that's another discussion.

Laws ensuring equal voting opportunities including laws against race-based gerrymandering? Stay. 'm familiar with the case of Republicans passing a law forcing people to register on sundays, the day proven by research was the day most blacks went to church, IIRC. The courts ruled this unconstitutional. I don't object.

A church that gets income tax exemption? AXE. But if they were taxed, they'd have so many deductions it would be moot lol

What about government subsidies for the poor that in practice tend to benefit racial minorities more than whites? STAY. That a policy or program affects, positively or negatively, a particular identity group more than others is irrelevant. If race is not the purpose of the policy, then it is perfectly legal. No policy in history I don't think affects ALL groups in the same ways equally.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/372911-trevor-noah-mocks-trumps-military-parade-the-world-knows-america-has-a
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.