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Unit2Sucks
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SFCityBear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

No one has mentioned this, but aren't all 3 candidates currently house members? The GOP minority is extremely slim and appointing one of them would have left a vacant house seat for the remainder of the term.

I don't think Butler is nearly as unqualified as people are making her out to be. She led a large labor union (almost 400k members, California's largest) for more than a decade and was a public policy director for Airbnb. She's apparently a prolific fundraiser and has been running an influential PAC the last few years. I'm guessing that Newsom thought that she would be a more valuable ally to him than any of the other candidates and I don't think he's wrong. It's also a sign of respect for Kamala Harris and maybe was an olive branch to her.

She has strong roots in California, so the fact that she most recently was living out of state isn't really a big deal.

I am not surprised at the number of disingenuous conservatives attacking her for being black and queer. They vote and support far less qualified people. I suppose just because they are white men. When white men are elected or appointed with no qualifications, the deplorable are silent and never say "he was just elected because he isn't black, queer or female." Gavin had plenty of qualified black women to choose from and it wasn't hard for him to find one better suited to be our senator than any number of dreadful white men currently serving in the senate.

What qualified RFK Jr. to be president? Or Trump? Or Andrew Yang?
What qualified Kelly Loeffler to be a senator when she was appointed? Or as pointed out before, Tuberville or Herschel?

Qualifications never matter to conservative darlings.

Not everyone will be as well qualified as Feinstein or Kamala Harris. Schiff and Barbara Lee are both well qualified, but I would consider Butler to be better qualified to be California's senator than Katie Porter. Porter has very little history of public service (just her second term as a rep) and as far as I can tell she doesn't have much history or connection to California.


I admit I am not as adept at searching the internet as most of you here, but I searched high and low to find any conservatives, disingenuous or otherwise, who "attacked her for being black and queer. Please help me out here and give us some names. And they should be conservatives, not just Republicans, because as you very well know, not all conservatives are Republicans, and vice versa, not all Republicans are conservatives. We should not conflate the two, IMO.

As to qualifications, and who is qualified and who is not, politicians are chosen to run or be appointed to office by their qualifications, their past history in preparing for a job at the next level, but they also can be chosen for their loyalty to party higher-ups and cast their votes in step (sometimes in lock-step) with those who are choosing or appointing them. Sometimes they are chosen for their value in attracting prospective voters, and prospective donors.

As to the first qualification, one's work experience and life experience preparing them for the next level, what makes you believe that those qualifications would be a predictor of success in their position at a higher level? There are many examples of highly qualified politicians who failed badly after they won an election to a higher level. Herbert Hoover comes to mind. Lyndon Johnson. How about Joe Biden? Who could have been better qualified for the job he now has? 50 years in politics, rising to be named vice-president and working 8 years in that job. As President, blunder after blunder, plunging the country into inflation, caving in to China and Iran, horrible exit from Afghanistan, selling off strategic oil reserves at a low price, letting a spy balloon from China hover over sensitive military installations, with nothing more than a wave at it?

How about his highly qualified cabinet? Many are highly qualified. Austin had a fine military record, and he's in charge of the Afghanistan debacle. Harris had a good career in law and as a senator, and she completely fumbles her main responsibility, keep the border secure. Blinken seemed to check all the boxes with his work history, and what has he done? We are less respected in the Middle East, and in China. Mayorkas was eminently qualified to be the Border Czar, and all he has done is mess it up, and lie constantly that the border is secure. Secure from armadillos maybe. Garland? He is highly qualified, but he is also an example of a yes man. That is not a qualification for office, it is a qualification for doing what his party or his President wishes. He will do as he is told, meaning stifle or at least slow-walk, all investigations of the Biden family, and come up with enough charges and lawsuits, and enough partisan judges, to keep the most popular Republican off the presidential ballot in 2024. His performance in front of Congressional Committee did not impress me. He was so tentative, so nervous, I wonder how he got his job in the first place.

On the other hand there have been a number people with seemingly unimpressive or even no qualifications for office, who have been successful after they won their election. Abe Lincoln comes to mind. Harry Truman had even less qualification for President. I would say say that Barack Obama did not appear to have the qualifications to be President, but I should think that you would say he was a successful President, wouldn't you?

There is a lot to agree with here. As for which "conservatives" have attacked Butler - you have me there because there is no accepted definition of conservative that we would all agree on. We have sort of a no true scotsman situation. I could point to many pundits who have said that Butler was only selected because she is a black, queer woman. Like does Ben Shapiro count as a conservative for you? I genuinely don't know.

As for everything else you've said, I think you are right on the money. Qualifications aren't the be all end all and they are highly variable. Butler may be considered extremely well qualified across some dimensions (fundraising, let's say) and less so across others (legislative experience).

We may disagree on how well certain people you've mentioned above have done at their jobs, but I think that's more about our own perceptions and biases. Categorically I agree with your logic.
dimitrig
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Unit2Sucks said:

SFCityBear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

No one has mentioned this, but aren't all 3 candidates currently house members? The GOP minority is extremely slim and appointing one of them would have left a vacant house seat for the remainder of the term.

I don't think Butler is nearly as unqualified as people are making her out to be. She led a large labor union (almost 400k members, California's largest) for more than a decade and was a public policy director for Airbnb. She's apparently a prolific fundraiser and has been running an influential PAC the last few years. I'm guessing that Newsom thought that she would be a more valuable ally to him than any of the other candidates and I don't think he's wrong. It's also a sign of respect for Kamala Harris and maybe was an olive branch to her.

She has strong roots in California, so the fact that she most recently was living out of state isn't really a big deal.

I am not surprised at the number of disingenuous conservatives attacking her for being black and queer. They vote and support far less qualified people. I suppose just because they are white men. When white men are elected or appointed with no qualifications, the deplorable are silent and never say "he was just elected because he isn't black, queer or female." Gavin had plenty of qualified black women to choose from and it wasn't hard for him to find one better suited to be our senator than any number of dreadful white men currently serving in the senate.

What qualified RFK Jr. to be president? Or Trump? Or Andrew Yang?
What qualified Kelly Loeffler to be a senator when she was appointed? Or as pointed out before, Tuberville or Herschel?

Qualifications never matter to conservative darlings.

Not everyone will be as well qualified as Feinstein or Kamala Harris. Schiff and Barbara Lee are both well qualified, but I would consider Butler to be better qualified to be California's senator than Katie Porter. Porter has very little history of public service (just her second term as a rep) and as far as I can tell she doesn't have much history or connection to California.


I admit I am not as adept at searching the internet as most of you here, but I searched high and low to find any conservatives, disingenuous or otherwise, who "attacked her for being black and queer. Please help me out here and give us some names. And they should be conservatives, not just Republicans, because as you very well know, not all conservatives are Republicans, and vice versa, not all Republicans are conservatives. We should not conflate the two, IMO.

As to qualifications, and who is qualified and who is not, politicians are chosen to run or be appointed to office by their qualifications, their past history in preparing for a job at the next level, but they also can be chosen for their loyalty to party higher-ups and cast their votes in step (sometimes in lock-step) with those who are choosing or appointing them. Sometimes they are chosen for their value in attracting prospective voters, and prospective donors.

As to the first qualification, one's work experience and life experience preparing them for the next level, what makes you believe that those qualifications would be a predictor of success in their position at a higher level? There are many examples of highly qualified politicians who failed badly after they won an election to a higher level. Herbert Hoover comes to mind. Lyndon Johnson. How about Joe Biden? Who could have been better qualified for the job he now has? 50 years in politics, rising to be named vice-president and working 8 years in that job. As President, blunder after blunder, plunging the country into inflation, caving in to China and Iran, horrible exit from Afghanistan, selling off strategic oil reserves at a low price, letting a spy balloon from China hover over sensitive military installations, with nothing more than a wave at it?

How about his highly qualified cabinet? Many are highly qualified. Austin had a fine military record, and he's in charge of the Afghanistan debacle. Harris had a good career in law and as a senator, and she completely fumbles her main responsibility, keep the border secure. Blinken seemed to check all the boxes with his work history, and what has he done? We are less respected in the Middle East, and in China. Mayorkas was eminently qualified to be the Border Czar, and all he has done is mess it up, and lie constantly that the border is secure. Secure from armadillos maybe. Garland? He is highly qualified, but he is also an example of a yes man. That is not a qualification for office, it is a qualification for doing what his party or his President wishes. He will do as he is told, meaning stifle or at least slow-walk, all investigations of the Biden family, and come up with enough charges and lawsuits, and enough partisan judges, to keep the most popular Republican off the presidential ballot in 2024. His performance in front of Congressional Committee did not impress me. He was so tentative, so nervous, I wonder how he got his job in the first place.

On the other hand there have been a number people with seemingly unimpressive or even no qualifications for office, who have been successful after they won their election. Abe Lincoln comes to mind. Harry Truman had even less qualification for President. I would say say that Barack Obama did not appear to have the qualifications to be President, but I should think that you would say he was a successful President, wouldn't you?

There is a lot to agree with here. As for which "conservatives" have attacked Butler - you have me there because there is no accepted definition of conservative that we would all agree on. We have sort of a no true scotsman situation. I could point to many pundits who have said that Butler was only selected because she is a black, queer woman. Like does Ben Shapiro count as a conservative for you? I genuinely don't know.

As for everything else you've said, I think you are right on the money. Qualifications aren't the be all end all and they are highly variable. Butler may be considered extremely well qualified across some dimensions (fundraising, let's say) and less so across others (legislative experience).

We may disagree on how well certain people you've mentioned above have done at their jobs, but I think that's more about our own perceptions and biases. Categorically I agree with your logic.



I am not a conservative but Butler was only selected because she is a black woman. I don't know if queer played into it at all, but I suspect it was considered a twofer.

Maybe among the pool of queer black women she was the best choice. I don't know. That is why she was selected, though. Newsom was dumb enough to say so:

"The governor's surprise statement came as Reid asked Newsom if he would commit to naming a Black woman to the Senate if Feinstein steps down and whether he has thought of particular replacements.

Newsom told Reid, "I have multiple names in mind. We have multiple names in mind and the answer is yes."

Newsom should have just said he would choose a well-qualified candidate regardless of race but he let us see his thought process.

Link:
https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/03/15/newsom-commits-to-nominating-black-woman-to-fill-feinsteins-seat-should-she-retire-1368354
Unit2Sucks
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dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

SFCityBear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

No one has mentioned this, but aren't all 3 candidates currently house members? The GOP minority is extremely slim and appointing one of them would have left a vacant house seat for the remainder of the term.

I don't think Butler is nearly as unqualified as people are making her out to be. She led a large labor union (almost 400k members, California's largest) for more than a decade and was a public policy director for Airbnb. She's apparently a prolific fundraiser and has been running an influential PAC the last few years. I'm guessing that Newsom thought that she would be a more valuable ally to him than any of the other candidates and I don't think he's wrong. It's also a sign of respect for Kamala Harris and maybe was an olive branch to her.

She has strong roots in California, so the fact that she most recently was living out of state isn't really a big deal.

I am not surprised at the number of disingenuous conservatives attacking her for being black and queer. They vote and support far less qualified people. I suppose just because they are white men. When white men are elected or appointed with no qualifications, the deplorable are silent and never say "he was just elected because he isn't black, queer or female." Gavin had plenty of qualified black women to choose from and it wasn't hard for him to find one better suited to be our senator than any number of dreadful white men currently serving in the senate.

What qualified RFK Jr. to be president? Or Trump? Or Andrew Yang?
What qualified Kelly Loeffler to be a senator when she was appointed? Or as pointed out before, Tuberville or Herschel?

Qualifications never matter to conservative darlings.

Not everyone will be as well qualified as Feinstein or Kamala Harris. Schiff and Barbara Lee are both well qualified, but I would consider Butler to be better qualified to be California's senator than Katie Porter. Porter has very little history of public service (just her second term as a rep) and as far as I can tell she doesn't have much history or connection to California.


I admit I am not as adept at searching the internet as most of you here, but I searched high and low to find any conservatives, disingenuous or otherwise, who "attacked her for being black and queer. Please help me out here and give us some names. And they should be conservatives, not just Republicans, because as you very well know, not all conservatives are Republicans, and vice versa, not all Republicans are conservatives. We should not conflate the two, IMO.

As to qualifications, and who is qualified and who is not, politicians are chosen to run or be appointed to office by their qualifications, their past history in preparing for a job at the next level, but they also can be chosen for their loyalty to party higher-ups and cast their votes in step (sometimes in lock-step) with those who are choosing or appointing them. Sometimes they are chosen for their value in attracting prospective voters, and prospective donors.

As to the first qualification, one's work experience and life experience preparing them for the next level, what makes you believe that those qualifications would be a predictor of success in their position at a higher level? There are many examples of highly qualified politicians who failed badly after they won an election to a higher level. Herbert Hoover comes to mind. Lyndon Johnson. How about Joe Biden? Who could have been better qualified for the job he now has? 50 years in politics, rising to be named vice-president and working 8 years in that job. As President, blunder after blunder, plunging the country into inflation, caving in to China and Iran, horrible exit from Afghanistan, selling off strategic oil reserves at a low price, letting a spy balloon from China hover over sensitive military installations, with nothing more than a wave at it?

How about his highly qualified cabinet? Many are highly qualified. Austin had a fine military record, and he's in charge of the Afghanistan debacle. Harris had a good career in law and as a senator, and she completely fumbles her main responsibility, keep the border secure. Blinken seemed to check all the boxes with his work history, and what has he done? We are less respected in the Middle East, and in China. Mayorkas was eminently qualified to be the Border Czar, and all he has done is mess it up, and lie constantly that the border is secure. Secure from armadillos maybe. Garland? He is highly qualified, but he is also an example of a yes man. That is not a qualification for office, it is a qualification for doing what his party or his President wishes. He will do as he is told, meaning stifle or at least slow-walk, all investigations of the Biden family, and come up with enough charges and lawsuits, and enough partisan judges, to keep the most popular Republican off the presidential ballot in 2024. His performance in front of Congressional Committee did not impress me. He was so tentative, so nervous, I wonder how he got his job in the first place.

On the other hand there have been a number people with seemingly unimpressive or even no qualifications for office, who have been successful after they won their election. Abe Lincoln comes to mind. Harry Truman had even less qualification for President. I would say say that Barack Obama did not appear to have the qualifications to be President, but I should think that you would say he was a successful President, wouldn't you?

There is a lot to agree with here. As for which "conservatives" have attacked Butler - you have me there because there is no accepted definition of conservative that we would all agree on. We have sort of a no true scotsman situation. I could point to many pundits who have said that Butler was only selected because she is a black, queer woman. Like does Ben Shapiro count as a conservative for you? I genuinely don't know.

As for everything else you've said, I think you are right on the money. Qualifications aren't the be all end all and they are highly variable. Butler may be considered extremely well qualified across some dimensions (fundraising, let's say) and less so across others (legislative experience).

We may disagree on how well certain people you've mentioned above have done at their jobs, but I think that's more about our own perceptions and biases. Categorically I agree with your logic.



I am not a conservative but Butler was only selected because she is a black woman. I don't know if queer played into it at all, but I suspect it was considered a twofer.

Maybe among the pool of queer black women she was the best choice. I don't know. That is why she was selected, though. Newsom was dumb enough to say so:

"The governor's surprise statement came as Reid asked Newsom if he would commit to naming a Black woman to the Senate if Feinstein steps down and whether he has thought of particular replacements.

Newsom told Reid, "I have multiple names in mind. We have multiple names in mind and the answer is yes."

Newsom should have just said he would choose a well-qualified candidate regardless of race but he let us see his thought process.

Link:
https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/03/15/newsom-commits-to-nominating-black-woman-to-fill-feinsteins-seat-should-she-retire-1368354

False. Unless you are claiming that Butler was the only black woman eligible to be selected, that was not why she was selected.

Newsom enumerated two of the criteria he was looking for but that doesn't mean that they were the only criteria, that they were sufficient or that they were hard to find. There were plenty of exceptional black women for him to choose from.

Trump very explicitly chose white men who looked like they came from "central casting." He chose J Powell over Janet Yellen because she was a short woman, not a distinguished looking white dude. Where was the outrage then? Powell was far from the only person Trump chose on that basis.
dimitrig
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Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

SFCityBear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

No one has mentioned this, but aren't all 3 candidates currently house members? The GOP minority is extremely slim and appointing one of them would have left a vacant house seat for the remainder of the term.

I don't think Butler is nearly as unqualified as people are making her out to be. She led a large labor union (almost 400k members, California's largest) for more than a decade and was a public policy director for Airbnb. She's apparently a prolific fundraiser and has been running an influential PAC the last few years. I'm guessing that Newsom thought that she would be a more valuable ally to him than any of the other candidates and I don't think he's wrong. It's also a sign of respect for Kamala Harris and maybe was an olive branch to her.

She has strong roots in California, so the fact that she most recently was living out of state isn't really a big deal.

I am not surprised at the number of disingenuous conservatives attacking her for being black and queer. They vote and support far less qualified people. I suppose just because they are white men. When white men are elected or appointed with no qualifications, the deplorable are silent and never say "he was just elected because he isn't black, queer or female." Gavin had plenty of qualified black women to choose from and it wasn't hard for him to find one better suited to be our senator than any number of dreadful white men currently serving in the senate.

What qualified RFK Jr. to be president? Or Trump? Or Andrew Yang?
What qualified Kelly Loeffler to be a senator when she was appointed? Or as pointed out before, Tuberville or Herschel?

Qualifications never matter to conservative darlings.

Not everyone will be as well qualified as Feinstein or Kamala Harris. Schiff and Barbara Lee are both well qualified, but I would consider Butler to be better qualified to be California's senator than Katie Porter. Porter has very little history of public service (just her second term as a rep) and as far as I can tell she doesn't have much history or connection to California.


I admit I am not as adept at searching the internet as most of you here, but I searched high and low to find any conservatives, disingenuous or otherwise, who "attacked her for being black and queer. Please help me out here and give us some names. And they should be conservatives, not just Republicans, because as you very well know, not all conservatives are Republicans, and vice versa, not all Republicans are conservatives. We should not conflate the two, IMO.

As to qualifications, and who is qualified and who is not, politicians are chosen to run or be appointed to office by their qualifications, their past history in preparing for a job at the next level, but they also can be chosen for their loyalty to party higher-ups and cast their votes in step (sometimes in lock-step) with those who are choosing or appointing them. Sometimes they are chosen for their value in attracting prospective voters, and prospective donors.

As to the first qualification, one's work experience and life experience preparing them for the next level, what makes you believe that those qualifications would be a predictor of success in their position at a higher level? There are many examples of highly qualified politicians who failed badly after they won an election to a higher level. Herbert Hoover comes to mind. Lyndon Johnson. How about Joe Biden? Who could have been better qualified for the job he now has? 50 years in politics, rising to be named vice-president and working 8 years in that job. As President, blunder after blunder, plunging the country into inflation, caving in to China and Iran, horrible exit from Afghanistan, selling off strategic oil reserves at a low price, letting a spy balloon from China hover over sensitive military installations, with nothing more than a wave at it?

How about his highly qualified cabinet? Many are highly qualified. Austin had a fine military record, and he's in charge of the Afghanistan debacle. Harris had a good career in law and as a senator, and she completely fumbles her main responsibility, keep the border secure. Blinken seemed to check all the boxes with his work history, and what has he done? We are less respected in the Middle East, and in China. Mayorkas was eminently qualified to be the Border Czar, and all he has done is mess it up, and lie constantly that the border is secure. Secure from armadillos maybe. Garland? He is highly qualified, but he is also an example of a yes man. That is not a qualification for office, it is a qualification for doing what his party or his President wishes. He will do as he is told, meaning stifle or at least slow-walk, all investigations of the Biden family, and come up with enough charges and lawsuits, and enough partisan judges, to keep the most popular Republican off the presidential ballot in 2024. His performance in front of Congressional Committee did not impress me. He was so tentative, so nervous, I wonder how he got his job in the first place.

On the other hand there have been a number people with seemingly unimpressive or even no qualifications for office, who have been successful after they won their election. Abe Lincoln comes to mind. Harry Truman had even less qualification for President. I would say say that Barack Obama did not appear to have the qualifications to be President, but I should think that you would say he was a successful President, wouldn't you?

There is a lot to agree with here. As for which "conservatives" have attacked Butler - you have me there because there is no accepted definition of conservative that we would all agree on. We have sort of a no true scotsman situation. I could point to many pundits who have said that Butler was only selected because she is a black, queer woman. Like does Ben Shapiro count as a conservative for you? I genuinely don't know.

As for everything else you've said, I think you are right on the money. Qualifications aren't the be all end all and they are highly variable. Butler may be considered extremely well qualified across some dimensions (fundraising, let's say) and less so across others (legislative experience).

We may disagree on how well certain people you've mentioned above have done at their jobs, but I think that's more about our own perceptions and biases. Categorically I agree with your logic.



I am not a conservative but Butler was only selected because she is a black woman. I don't know if queer played into it at all, but I suspect it was considered a twofer.

Maybe among the pool of queer black women she was the best choice. I don't know. That is why she was selected, though. Newsom was dumb enough to say so:

"The governor's surprise statement came as Reid asked Newsom if he would commit to naming a Black woman to the Senate if Feinstein steps down and whether he has thought of particular replacements.

Newsom told Reid, "I have multiple names in mind. We have multiple names in mind and the answer is yes."

Newsom should have just said he would choose a well-qualified candidate regardless of race but he let us see his thought process.

Link:
https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/03/15/newsom-commits-to-nominating-black-woman-to-fill-feinsteins-seat-should-she-retire-1368354

False. Unless you are claiming that Butler was the only black woman eligible to be selected, that was not why she was selected.

Newsom enumerated two of the criteria he was looking for but that doesn't mean that they were the only criteria, that they were sufficient or that they were hard to find. There were plenty of exceptional black women for him to choose from.

Trump very explicitly chose white men who looked like they came from "central casting." He chose J Powell over Janet Yellen because she was a short woman, not a distinguished looking white dude. Where was the outrage then? Powell was far from the only person Trump chose on that basis.


What does Trump have to do with anything?

Newsom should have never admitted being a black woman was a prerequisite for the job.


movielover
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Diez puntos.
Unit2Sucks
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dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

SFCityBear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

No one has mentioned this, but aren't all 3 candidates currently house members? The GOP minority is extremely slim and appointing one of them would have left a vacant house seat for the remainder of the term.

I don't think Butler is nearly as unqualified as people are making her out to be. She led a large labor union (almost 400k members, California's largest) for more than a decade and was a public policy director for Airbnb. She's apparently a prolific fundraiser and has been running an influential PAC the last few years. I'm guessing that Newsom thought that she would be a more valuable ally to him than any of the other candidates and I don't think he's wrong. It's also a sign of respect for Kamala Harris and maybe was an olive branch to her.

She has strong roots in California, so the fact that she most recently was living out of state isn't really a big deal.

I am not surprised at the number of disingenuous conservatives attacking her for being black and queer. They vote and support far less qualified people. I suppose just because they are white men. When white men are elected or appointed with no qualifications, the deplorable are silent and never say "he was just elected because he isn't black, queer or female." Gavin had plenty of qualified black women to choose from and it wasn't hard for him to find one better suited to be our senator than any number of dreadful white men currently serving in the senate.

What qualified RFK Jr. to be president? Or Trump? Or Andrew Yang?
What qualified Kelly Loeffler to be a senator when she was appointed? Or as pointed out before, Tuberville or Herschel?

Qualifications never matter to conservative darlings.

Not everyone will be as well qualified as Feinstein or Kamala Harris. Schiff and Barbara Lee are both well qualified, but I would consider Butler to be better qualified to be California's senator than Katie Porter. Porter has very little history of public service (just her second term as a rep) and as far as I can tell she doesn't have much history or connection to California.


I admit I am not as adept at searching the internet as most of you here, but I searched high and low to find any conservatives, disingenuous or otherwise, who "attacked her for being black and queer. Please help me out here and give us some names. And they should be conservatives, not just Republicans, because as you very well know, not all conservatives are Republicans, and vice versa, not all Republicans are conservatives. We should not conflate the two, IMO.

As to qualifications, and who is qualified and who is not, politicians are chosen to run or be appointed to office by their qualifications, their past history in preparing for a job at the next level, but they also can be chosen for their loyalty to party higher-ups and cast their votes in step (sometimes in lock-step) with those who are choosing or appointing them. Sometimes they are chosen for their value in attracting prospective voters, and prospective donors.

As to the first qualification, one's work experience and life experience preparing them for the next level, what makes you believe that those qualifications would be a predictor of success in their position at a higher level? There are many examples of highly qualified politicians who failed badly after they won an election to a higher level. Herbert Hoover comes to mind. Lyndon Johnson. How about Joe Biden? Who could have been better qualified for the job he now has? 50 years in politics, rising to be named vice-president and working 8 years in that job. As President, blunder after blunder, plunging the country into inflation, caving in to China and Iran, horrible exit from Afghanistan, selling off strategic oil reserves at a low price, letting a spy balloon from China hover over sensitive military installations, with nothing more than a wave at it?

How about his highly qualified cabinet? Many are highly qualified. Austin had a fine military record, and he's in charge of the Afghanistan debacle. Harris had a good career in law and as a senator, and she completely fumbles her main responsibility, keep the border secure. Blinken seemed to check all the boxes with his work history, and what has he done? We are less respected in the Middle East, and in China. Mayorkas was eminently qualified to be the Border Czar, and all he has done is mess it up, and lie constantly that the border is secure. Secure from armadillos maybe. Garland? He is highly qualified, but he is also an example of a yes man. That is not a qualification for office, it is a qualification for doing what his party or his President wishes. He will do as he is told, meaning stifle or at least slow-walk, all investigations of the Biden family, and come up with enough charges and lawsuits, and enough partisan judges, to keep the most popular Republican off the presidential ballot in 2024. His performance in front of Congressional Committee did not impress me. He was so tentative, so nervous, I wonder how he got his job in the first place.

On the other hand there have been a number people with seemingly unimpressive or even no qualifications for office, who have been successful after they won their election. Abe Lincoln comes to mind. Harry Truman had even less qualification for President. I would say say that Barack Obama did not appear to have the qualifications to be President, but I should think that you would say he was a successful President, wouldn't you?

There is a lot to agree with here. As for which "conservatives" have attacked Butler - you have me there because there is no accepted definition of conservative that we would all agree on. We have sort of a no true scotsman situation. I could point to many pundits who have said that Butler was only selected because she is a black, queer woman. Like does Ben Shapiro count as a conservative for you? I genuinely don't know.

As for everything else you've said, I think you are right on the money. Qualifications aren't the be all end all and they are highly variable. Butler may be considered extremely well qualified across some dimensions (fundraising, let's say) and less so across others (legislative experience).

We may disagree on how well certain people you've mentioned above have done at their jobs, but I think that's more about our own perceptions and biases. Categorically I agree with your logic.



I am not a conservative but Butler was only selected because she is a black woman. I don't know if queer played into it at all, but I suspect it was considered a twofer.

Maybe among the pool of queer black women she was the best choice. I don't know. That is why she was selected, though. Newsom was dumb enough to say so:

"The governor's surprise statement came as Reid asked Newsom if he would commit to naming a Black woman to the Senate if Feinstein steps down and whether he has thought of particular replacements.

Newsom told Reid, "I have multiple names in mind. We have multiple names in mind and the answer is yes."

Newsom should have just said he would choose a well-qualified candidate regardless of race but he let us see his thought process.

Link:
https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/03/15/newsom-commits-to-nominating-black-woman-to-fill-feinsteins-seat-should-she-retire-1368354

False. Unless you are claiming that Butler was the only black woman eligible to be selected, that was not why she was selected.

Newsom enumerated two of the criteria he was looking for but that doesn't mean that they were the only criteria, that they were sufficient or that they were hard to find. There were plenty of exceptional black women for him to choose from.

Trump very explicitly chose white men who looked like they came from "central casting." He chose J Powell over Janet Yellen because she was a short woman, not a distinguished looking white dude. Where was the outrage then? Powell was far from the only person Trump chose on that basis.


What does Trump have to do with anything?

Newsom should have never admitted being a black woman was a prerequisite for the job.
There were lots of prerequisites. If he said that being a democrat was a prereq would you say the person was only selected because she was a democrat? This isn't any different.
sycasey
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Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

SFCityBear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

No one has mentioned this, but aren't all 3 candidates currently house members? The GOP minority is extremely slim and appointing one of them would have left a vacant house seat for the remainder of the term.

I don't think Butler is nearly as unqualified as people are making her out to be. She led a large labor union (almost 400k members, California's largest) for more than a decade and was a public policy director for Airbnb. She's apparently a prolific fundraiser and has been running an influential PAC the last few years. I'm guessing that Newsom thought that she would be a more valuable ally to him than any of the other candidates and I don't think he's wrong. It's also a sign of respect for Kamala Harris and maybe was an olive branch to her.

She has strong roots in California, so the fact that she most recently was living out of state isn't really a big deal.

I am not surprised at the number of disingenuous conservatives attacking her for being black and queer. They vote and support far less qualified people. I suppose just because they are white men. When white men are elected or appointed with no qualifications, the deplorable are silent and never say "he was just elected because he isn't black, queer or female." Gavin had plenty of qualified black women to choose from and it wasn't hard for him to find one better suited to be our senator than any number of dreadful white men currently serving in the senate.

What qualified RFK Jr. to be president? Or Trump? Or Andrew Yang?
What qualified Kelly Loeffler to be a senator when she was appointed? Or as pointed out before, Tuberville or Herschel?

Qualifications never matter to conservative darlings.

Not everyone will be as well qualified as Feinstein or Kamala Harris. Schiff and Barbara Lee are both well qualified, but I would consider Butler to be better qualified to be California's senator than Katie Porter. Porter has very little history of public service (just her second term as a rep) and as far as I can tell she doesn't have much history or connection to California.


I admit I am not as adept at searching the internet as most of you here, but I searched high and low to find any conservatives, disingenuous or otherwise, who "attacked her for being black and queer. Please help me out here and give us some names. And they should be conservatives, not just Republicans, because as you very well know, not all conservatives are Republicans, and vice versa, not all Republicans are conservatives. We should not conflate the two, IMO.

As to qualifications, and who is qualified and who is not, politicians are chosen to run or be appointed to office by their qualifications, their past history in preparing for a job at the next level, but they also can be chosen for their loyalty to party higher-ups and cast their votes in step (sometimes in lock-step) with those who are choosing or appointing them. Sometimes they are chosen for their value in attracting prospective voters, and prospective donors.

As to the first qualification, one's work experience and life experience preparing them for the next level, what makes you believe that those qualifications would be a predictor of success in their position at a higher level? There are many examples of highly qualified politicians who failed badly after they won an election to a higher level. Herbert Hoover comes to mind. Lyndon Johnson. How about Joe Biden? Who could have been better qualified for the job he now has? 50 years in politics, rising to be named vice-president and working 8 years in that job. As President, blunder after blunder, plunging the country into inflation, caving in to China and Iran, horrible exit from Afghanistan, selling off strategic oil reserves at a low price, letting a spy balloon from China hover over sensitive military installations, with nothing more than a wave at it?

How about his highly qualified cabinet? Many are highly qualified. Austin had a fine military record, and he's in charge of the Afghanistan debacle. Harris had a good career in law and as a senator, and she completely fumbles her main responsibility, keep the border secure. Blinken seemed to check all the boxes with his work history, and what has he done? We are less respected in the Middle East, and in China. Mayorkas was eminently qualified to be the Border Czar, and all he has done is mess it up, and lie constantly that the border is secure. Secure from armadillos maybe. Garland? He is highly qualified, but he is also an example of a yes man. That is not a qualification for office, it is a qualification for doing what his party or his President wishes. He will do as he is told, meaning stifle or at least slow-walk, all investigations of the Biden family, and come up with enough charges and lawsuits, and enough partisan judges, to keep the most popular Republican off the presidential ballot in 2024. His performance in front of Congressional Committee did not impress me. He was so tentative, so nervous, I wonder how he got his job in the first place.

On the other hand there have been a number people with seemingly unimpressive or even no qualifications for office, who have been successful after they won their election. Abe Lincoln comes to mind. Harry Truman had even less qualification for President. I would say say that Barack Obama did not appear to have the qualifications to be President, but I should think that you would say he was a successful President, wouldn't you?

There is a lot to agree with here. As for which "conservatives" have attacked Butler - you have me there because there is no accepted definition of conservative that we would all agree on. We have sort of a no true scotsman situation. I could point to many pundits who have said that Butler was only selected because she is a black, queer woman. Like does Ben Shapiro count as a conservative for you? I genuinely don't know.

As for everything else you've said, I think you are right on the money. Qualifications aren't the be all end all and they are highly variable. Butler may be considered extremely well qualified across some dimensions (fundraising, let's say) and less so across others (legislative experience).

We may disagree on how well certain people you've mentioned above have done at their jobs, but I think that's more about our own perceptions and biases. Categorically I agree with your logic.



I am not a conservative but Butler was only selected because she is a black woman. I don't know if queer played into it at all, but I suspect it was considered a twofer.

Maybe among the pool of queer black women she was the best choice. I don't know. That is why she was selected, though. Newsom was dumb enough to say so:

"The governor's surprise statement came as Reid asked Newsom if he would commit to naming a Black woman to the Senate if Feinstein steps down and whether he has thought of particular replacements.

Newsom told Reid, "I have multiple names in mind. We have multiple names in mind and the answer is yes."

Newsom should have just said he would choose a well-qualified candidate regardless of race but he let us see his thought process.

Link:
https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/03/15/newsom-commits-to-nominating-black-woman-to-fill-feinsteins-seat-should-she-retire-1368354

False. Unless you are claiming that Butler was the only black woman eligible to be selected, that was not why she was selected.

Newsom enumerated two of the criteria he was looking for but that doesn't mean that they were the only criteria, that they were sufficient or that they were hard to find. There were plenty of exceptional black women for him to choose from.

Trump very explicitly chose white men who looked like they came from "central casting." He chose J Powell over Janet Yellen because she was a short woman, not a distinguished looking white dude. Where was the outrage then? Powell was far from the only person Trump chose on that basis.


What does Trump have to do with anything?

Newsom should have never admitted being a black woman was a prerequisite for the job.
There were lots of prerequisites. If he said that being a democrat was a prereq would you say the person was only selected because she was a democrat? This isn't any different.

Democrat denotes a certain set of policy positions. Blackness is just something you're born with. This is apples to oranges.
dajo9
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It sure is easy for white people to downplay the importance of diverse representation.

Butler is fully qualified to be a Senator. It's embarrassing to see some of you complain that she is black.
"They're eating the pets"
3 time Republican nominee for President
Unit2Sucks
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sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

SFCityBear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

No one has mentioned this, but aren't all 3 candidates currently house members? The GOP minority is extremely slim and appointing one of them would have left a vacant house seat for the remainder of the term.

I don't think Butler is nearly as unqualified as people are making her out to be. She led a large labor union (almost 400k members, California's largest) for more than a decade and was a public policy director for Airbnb. She's apparently a prolific fundraiser and has been running an influential PAC the last few years. I'm guessing that Newsom thought that she would be a more valuable ally to him than any of the other candidates and I don't think he's wrong. It's also a sign of respect for Kamala Harris and maybe was an olive branch to her.

She has strong roots in California, so the fact that she most recently was living out of state isn't really a big deal.

I am not surprised at the number of disingenuous conservatives attacking her for being black and queer. They vote and support far less qualified people. I suppose just because they are white men. When white men are elected or appointed with no qualifications, the deplorable are silent and never say "he was just elected because he isn't black, queer or female." Gavin had plenty of qualified black women to choose from and it wasn't hard for him to find one better suited to be our senator than any number of dreadful white men currently serving in the senate.

What qualified RFK Jr. to be president? Or Trump? Or Andrew Yang?
What qualified Kelly Loeffler to be a senator when she was appointed? Or as pointed out before, Tuberville or Herschel?

Qualifications never matter to conservative darlings.

Not everyone will be as well qualified as Feinstein or Kamala Harris. Schiff and Barbara Lee are both well qualified, but I would consider Butler to be better qualified to be California's senator than Katie Porter. Porter has very little history of public service (just her second term as a rep) and as far as I can tell she doesn't have much history or connection to California.


I admit I am not as adept at searching the internet as most of you here, but I searched high and low to find any conservatives, disingenuous or otherwise, who "attacked her for being black and queer. Please help me out here and give us some names. And they should be conservatives, not just Republicans, because as you very well know, not all conservatives are Republicans, and vice versa, not all Republicans are conservatives. We should not conflate the two, IMO.

As to qualifications, and who is qualified and who is not, politicians are chosen to run or be appointed to office by their qualifications, their past history in preparing for a job at the next level, but they also can be chosen for their loyalty to party higher-ups and cast their votes in step (sometimes in lock-step) with those who are choosing or appointing them. Sometimes they are chosen for their value in attracting prospective voters, and prospective donors.

As to the first qualification, one's work experience and life experience preparing them for the next level, what makes you believe that those qualifications would be a predictor of success in their position at a higher level? There are many examples of highly qualified politicians who failed badly after they won an election to a higher level. Herbert Hoover comes to mind. Lyndon Johnson. How about Joe Biden? Who could have been better qualified for the job he now has? 50 years in politics, rising to be named vice-president and working 8 years in that job. As President, blunder after blunder, plunging the country into inflation, caving in to China and Iran, horrible exit from Afghanistan, selling off strategic oil reserves at a low price, letting a spy balloon from China hover over sensitive military installations, with nothing more than a wave at it?

How about his highly qualified cabinet? Many are highly qualified. Austin had a fine military record, and he's in charge of the Afghanistan debacle. Harris had a good career in law and as a senator, and she completely fumbles her main responsibility, keep the border secure. Blinken seemed to check all the boxes with his work history, and what has he done? We are less respected in the Middle East, and in China. Mayorkas was eminently qualified to be the Border Czar, and all he has done is mess it up, and lie constantly that the border is secure. Secure from armadillos maybe. Garland? He is highly qualified, but he is also an example of a yes man. That is not a qualification for office, it is a qualification for doing what his party or his President wishes. He will do as he is told, meaning stifle or at least slow-walk, all investigations of the Biden family, and come up with enough charges and lawsuits, and enough partisan judges, to keep the most popular Republican off the presidential ballot in 2024. His performance in front of Congressional Committee did not impress me. He was so tentative, so nervous, I wonder how he got his job in the first place.

On the other hand there have been a number people with seemingly unimpressive or even no qualifications for office, who have been successful after they won their election. Abe Lincoln comes to mind. Harry Truman had even less qualification for President. I would say say that Barack Obama did not appear to have the qualifications to be President, but I should think that you would say he was a successful President, wouldn't you?

There is a lot to agree with here. As for which "conservatives" have attacked Butler - you have me there because there is no accepted definition of conservative that we would all agree on. We have sort of a no true scotsman situation. I could point to many pundits who have said that Butler was only selected because she is a black, queer woman. Like does Ben Shapiro count as a conservative for you? I genuinely don't know.

As for everything else you've said, I think you are right on the money. Qualifications aren't the be all end all and they are highly variable. Butler may be considered extremely well qualified across some dimensions (fundraising, let's say) and less so across others (legislative experience).

We may disagree on how well certain people you've mentioned above have done at their jobs, but I think that's more about our own perceptions and biases. Categorically I agree with your logic.



I am not a conservative but Butler was only selected because she is a black woman. I don't know if queer played into it at all, but I suspect it was considered a twofer.

Maybe among the pool of queer black women she was the best choice. I don't know. That is why she was selected, though. Newsom was dumb enough to say so:

"The governor's surprise statement came as Reid asked Newsom if he would commit to naming a Black woman to the Senate if Feinstein steps down and whether he has thought of particular replacements.

Newsom told Reid, "I have multiple names in mind. We have multiple names in mind and the answer is yes."

Newsom should have just said he would choose a well-qualified candidate regardless of race but he let us see his thought process.

Link:
https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/03/15/newsom-commits-to-nominating-black-woman-to-fill-feinsteins-seat-should-she-retire-1368354

False. Unless you are claiming that Butler was the only black woman eligible to be selected, that was not why she was selected.

Newsom enumerated two of the criteria he was looking for but that doesn't mean that they were the only criteria, that they were sufficient or that they were hard to find. There were plenty of exceptional black women for him to choose from.

Trump very explicitly chose white men who looked like they came from "central casting." He chose J Powell over Janet Yellen because she was a short woman, not a distinguished looking white dude. Where was the outrage then? Powell was far from the only person Trump chose on that basis.


What does Trump have to do with anything?

Newsom should have never admitted being a black woman was a prerequisite for the job.
There were lots of prerequisites. If he said that being a democrat was a prereq would you say the person was only selected because she was a democrat? This isn't any different.

Democrat denotes a certain set of policy positions. Blackness is just something you're born with. This is apples to oranges.
It's fair to differentiate between the two in theory, but it's not fair to claim that she was only appointed because she was a black woman. That's my main point here. There were a lot of prerequisites that she fulfilled, beyond just being a black woman.

No matter who he selected, the person would be hated by his political opponents. They are just using this opportunity to smear her appointment as being entirely based on her gender and skin color. Maybe he announced those prereqs purposefully to fire up the bigots and generate additional support for democrats in 2024.

Personally, I only find this seat-warmer interesting because it has generated so much vitriol from bigots. Gavin wins again.
sycasey
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Unit2Sucks said:

sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

dimitrig said:

Unit2Sucks said:

SFCityBear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

No one has mentioned this, but aren't all 3 candidates currently house members? The GOP minority is extremely slim and appointing one of them would have left a vacant house seat for the remainder of the term.

I don't think Butler is nearly as unqualified as people are making her out to be. She led a large labor union (almost 400k members, California's largest) for more than a decade and was a public policy director for Airbnb. She's apparently a prolific fundraiser and has been running an influential PAC the last few years. I'm guessing that Newsom thought that she would be a more valuable ally to him than any of the other candidates and I don't think he's wrong. It's also a sign of respect for Kamala Harris and maybe was an olive branch to her.

She has strong roots in California, so the fact that she most recently was living out of state isn't really a big deal.

I am not surprised at the number of disingenuous conservatives attacking her for being black and queer. They vote and support far less qualified people. I suppose just because they are white men. When white men are elected or appointed with no qualifications, the deplorable are silent and never say "he was just elected because he isn't black, queer or female." Gavin had plenty of qualified black women to choose from and it wasn't hard for him to find one better suited to be our senator than any number of dreadful white men currently serving in the senate.

What qualified RFK Jr. to be president? Or Trump? Or Andrew Yang?
What qualified Kelly Loeffler to be a senator when she was appointed? Or as pointed out before, Tuberville or Herschel?

Qualifications never matter to conservative darlings.

Not everyone will be as well qualified as Feinstein or Kamala Harris. Schiff and Barbara Lee are both well qualified, but I would consider Butler to be better qualified to be California's senator than Katie Porter. Porter has very little history of public service (just her second term as a rep) and as far as I can tell she doesn't have much history or connection to California.


I admit I am not as adept at searching the internet as most of you here, but I searched high and low to find any conservatives, disingenuous or otherwise, who "attacked her for being black and queer. Please help me out here and give us some names. And they should be conservatives, not just Republicans, because as you very well know, not all conservatives are Republicans, and vice versa, not all Republicans are conservatives. We should not conflate the two, IMO.

As to qualifications, and who is qualified and who is not, politicians are chosen to run or be appointed to office by their qualifications, their past history in preparing for a job at the next level, but they also can be chosen for their loyalty to party higher-ups and cast their votes in step (sometimes in lock-step) with those who are choosing or appointing them. Sometimes they are chosen for their value in attracting prospective voters, and prospective donors.

As to the first qualification, one's work experience and life experience preparing them for the next level, what makes you believe that those qualifications would be a predictor of success in their position at a higher level? There are many examples of highly qualified politicians who failed badly after they won an election to a higher level. Herbert Hoover comes to mind. Lyndon Johnson. How about Joe Biden? Who could have been better qualified for the job he now has? 50 years in politics, rising to be named vice-president and working 8 years in that job. As President, blunder after blunder, plunging the country into inflation, caving in to China and Iran, horrible exit from Afghanistan, selling off strategic oil reserves at a low price, letting a spy balloon from China hover over sensitive military installations, with nothing more than a wave at it?

How about his highly qualified cabinet? Many are highly qualified. Austin had a fine military record, and he's in charge of the Afghanistan debacle. Harris had a good career in law and as a senator, and she completely fumbles her main responsibility, keep the border secure. Blinken seemed to check all the boxes with his work history, and what has he done? We are less respected in the Middle East, and in China. Mayorkas was eminently qualified to be the Border Czar, and all he has done is mess it up, and lie constantly that the border is secure. Secure from armadillos maybe. Garland? He is highly qualified, but he is also an example of a yes man. That is not a qualification for office, it is a qualification for doing what his party or his President wishes. He will do as he is told, meaning stifle or at least slow-walk, all investigations of the Biden family, and come up with enough charges and lawsuits, and enough partisan judges, to keep the most popular Republican off the presidential ballot in 2024. His performance in front of Congressional Committee did not impress me. He was so tentative, so nervous, I wonder how he got his job in the first place.

On the other hand there have been a number people with seemingly unimpressive or even no qualifications for office, who have been successful after they won their election. Abe Lincoln comes to mind. Harry Truman had even less qualification for President. I would say say that Barack Obama did not appear to have the qualifications to be President, but I should think that you would say he was a successful President, wouldn't you?

There is a lot to agree with here. As for which "conservatives" have attacked Butler - you have me there because there is no accepted definition of conservative that we would all agree on. We have sort of a no true scotsman situation. I could point to many pundits who have said that Butler was only selected because she is a black, queer woman. Like does Ben Shapiro count as a conservative for you? I genuinely don't know.

As for everything else you've said, I think you are right on the money. Qualifications aren't the be all end all and they are highly variable. Butler may be considered extremely well qualified across some dimensions (fundraising, let's say) and less so across others (legislative experience).

We may disagree on how well certain people you've mentioned above have done at their jobs, but I think that's more about our own perceptions and biases. Categorically I agree with your logic.



I am not a conservative but Butler was only selected because she is a black woman. I don't know if queer played into it at all, but I suspect it was considered a twofer.

Maybe among the pool of queer black women she was the best choice. I don't know. That is why she was selected, though. Newsom was dumb enough to say so:

"The governor's surprise statement came as Reid asked Newsom if he would commit to naming a Black woman to the Senate if Feinstein steps down and whether he has thought of particular replacements.

Newsom told Reid, "I have multiple names in mind. We have multiple names in mind and the answer is yes."

Newsom should have just said he would choose a well-qualified candidate regardless of race but he let us see his thought process.

Link:
https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/03/15/newsom-commits-to-nominating-black-woman-to-fill-feinsteins-seat-should-she-retire-1368354

False. Unless you are claiming that Butler was the only black woman eligible to be selected, that was not why she was selected.

Newsom enumerated two of the criteria he was looking for but that doesn't mean that they were the only criteria, that they were sufficient or that they were hard to find. There were plenty of exceptional black women for him to choose from.

Trump very explicitly chose white men who looked like they came from "central casting." He chose J Powell over Janet Yellen because she was a short woman, not a distinguished looking white dude. Where was the outrage then? Powell was far from the only person Trump chose on that basis.


What does Trump have to do with anything?

Newsom should have never admitted being a black woman was a prerequisite for the job.
There were lots of prerequisites. If he said that being a democrat was a prereq would you say the person was only selected because she was a democrat? This isn't any different.

Democrat denotes a certain set of policy positions. Blackness is just something you're born with. This is apples to oranges.
It's fair to differentiate between the two in theory, but it's not fair to claim that she was only appointed because she was a black woman. That's my main point here. There were a lot of prerequisites that she fulfilled, beyond just being a black woman.

No matter who he selected, the person would be hated by his political opponents. They are just using this opportunity to smear her appointment as being entirely based on her gender and skin color. Maybe he announced those prereqs purposefully to fire up the bigots and generate additional support for democrats in 2024.

Personally, I only find this seat-warmer interesting because it has generated so much vitriol from bigots. Gavin wins again.
I said before the pick was made that he shouldn't have given specific racial and gender categories he was looking to fill. Boxing yourself in like that just isn't politically smart, and it gives his opponents more reason to smear the pick (though yes, they would have tried to anyway).

Ultimately I also don't think this matters very much since she will probably only hold the seat temporarily. In terms of qualifications, she seems pretty well in line with other caretaker Senators who have been appointed in the past. I only waded in to point out that policy positions are not in the same realm as immutable racial characteristics as reasons for selecting someone. It's not a good comparison.
movielover
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movielover
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Diez puntos.
MinotStateBeav
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dajo9 said:

It sure is easy for white people to downplay the importance of diverse representation.

Butler is fully qualified to be a Senator. It's embarrassing to see some of you complain that she is black.
Does it ever get tiring of singling out people for their race? Just curious if it gets exhausting even while trolling on a message board? I would think we all learned the lesson that we all bleed the same color, therefore having a different skin color is the least important part of a person performing a job. If we could return to that dream of america that would be fantastic.
82gradDLSdad
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MinotStateBeav said:

dajo9 said:

It sure is easy for white people to downplay the importance of diverse representation.

Butler is fully qualified to be a Senator. It's embarrassing to see some of you complain that she is black.
Does it ever get tiring of singling out people for their race? Just curious if it gets exhausting even while trolling on a message board? I would think we all learned the lesson that we all bleed the same color, therefore having a different skin color is the least important part of a person performing a job. If we could return to that dream of america that would be fantastic.


No kidding...as I look at a recent TED talk that caused a big stir because the topic was A Case for Color Blindness...given by a black guy...that caused the heads of TED to meet with the presenter and ask him to alter it because members of TED were upset by it. TED, the organization built for the open exchange of ideas had trouble with a black guy saying, enough with the race stuff. Let's move on. Easy for him to say, he's white...er, wait, he's black? Eh, must be an uncle Tom.
MinotStateBeav
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Found it for ya.



Coleman talks about it

82gradDLSdad
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MinotStateBeav said:

Found it for ya.



Coleman talks about it




I've watched it and the interview he gave on the All in podcast describing the meetings he had with TED after they approved his talked but then got blow back from some of the audience members. They were trying to get him to do some form of 'damage' control. Ridiculous.
dajo9
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MinotStateBeav said:

dajo9 said:

It sure is easy for white people to downplay the importance of diverse representation.

Butler is fully qualified to be a Senator. It's embarrassing to see some of you complain that she is black.
Does it ever get tiring of singling out people for their race? Just curious if it gets exhausting even while trolling on a message board? I would think we all learned the lesson that we all bleed the same color, therefore having a different skin color is the least important part of a person performing a job. If we could return to that dream of america that would be fantastic.


Sure would be nice to be able to sweep other people's problems under the rug
"They're eating the pets"
3 time Republican nominee for President
Unit2Sucks
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I think diversity of thought is great but it's not lost on me that conservatives only tend to support outlier opinions from black people that favor white people. I'm sure that Candace Owens, Larry Elder, Thomas Sowell, etc. (and this new dude) will remain popular with conservatives so long as they maintain their current opinions on race relations.

I will continue to listen to the vast majority of informed and educated opinions on controversial topics rather than cherry-picking the ones that might make me feel better. That applies to race relations, the climate, the war in Ukraine and many others. When we reach a point in history where institutional racism has truly been erased, I expect the current outlier view preferred by conservatives will become mainstream - it's not there yet.

We live in a world where opinions are free to generate and easy to distribute so this problem will only get worse.



82gradDLSdad
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Unit2Sucks said:

I think diversity of thought is great but it's not lost on me that conservatives only tend to support outlier opinions from black people that favor white people. I'm sure that Candace Owens, Larry Elder, Thomas Sowell, etc. (and this new dude) will remain popular with conservatives so long as they maintain their current opinions on race relations.

I will continue to listen to the vast majority of informed and educated opinions on controversial topics rather than cherry-picking the ones that might make me feel better. That applies to race relations, the climate, the war in Ukraine and many others. When we reach a point in history where institutional racism has truly been erased, I expect the current outlier view preferred by conservatives will become mainstream - it's not there yet.

We live in a world where opinions are free to generate and easy to distribute so this problem will only get worse.






"Informed and educated". What an implication. I object, counselor. And I know how to object. I have coffee with two lawyers every week and have been married to a paralegal for 40 years.
Unit2Sucks
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82gradDLSdad said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I think diversity of thought is great but it's not lost on me that conservatives only tend to support outlier opinions from black people that favor white people. I'm sure that Candace Owens, Larry Elder, Thomas Sowell, etc. (and this new dude) will remain popular with conservatives so long as they maintain their current opinions on race relations.

I will continue to listen to the vast majority of informed and educated opinions on controversial topics rather than cherry-picking the ones that might make me feel better. That applies to race relations, the climate, the war in Ukraine and many others. When we reach a point in history where institutional racism has truly been erased, I expect the current outlier view preferred by conservatives will become mainstream - it's not there yet.

We live in a world where opinions are free to generate and easy to distribute so this problem will only get worse.






"Informed and educated". What an implication. I object, counselor. And I know how to object. I have coffee with two lawyers every week and have been married to a paralegal for 40 years.
You can feel free to listen to whatever opinions you want. There are lots of people on youtube monetizing uninformed opinions. It's a booming business and I suspect telling people what they want to hear will remain popular.
82gradDLSdad
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Unit2Sucks said:

82gradDLSdad said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I think diversity of thought is great but it's not lost on me that conservatives only tend to support outlier opinions from black people that favor white people. I'm sure that Candace Owens, Larry Elder, Thomas Sowell, etc. (and this new dude) will remain popular with conservatives so long as they maintain their current opinions on race relations.

I will continue to listen to the vast majority of informed and educated opinions on controversial topics rather than cherry-picking the ones that might make me feel better. That applies to race relations, the climate, the war in Ukraine and many others. When we reach a point in history where institutional racism has truly been erased, I expect the current outlier view preferred by conservatives will become mainstream - it's not there yet.

We live in a world where opinions are free to generate and easy to distribute so this problem will only get worse.






"Informed and educated". What an implication. I object, counselor. And I know how to object. I have coffee with two lawyers every week and have been married to a paralegal for 40 years.
You can feel free to listen to whatever opinions you want. There are lots of people on youtube monetizing uninformed opinions. It's a booming business and I suspect telling people what they want to hear will remain popular.


You're right about that. Im downing olive oil with every cheese and meat meal. Feel great. Cholesterol went up but who cares. right.
movielover
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Crime pays.

BearHunter
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movielover said:

Crime pays.


Most definitely. His Antifa friends are getting paid.
bearister
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How airlines were duped into using FAKE engine parts in $3M scheme



https://mol.im/a/12598495

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Cal88
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bearister
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Well, Fox News paid Dominion $787.5M….and you don't think Fox News paid someone $100M+ to try to prove those machines were corrupted….and came up with bupkis.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Cal88
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bearister said:

Well, Fox News paid Dominion $787.5M….and you don't think Fox News paid someone $100M+ to try to prove those machines were corrupted….and came up with bupkis.

Why would you even need to use computers, which can be hacked, in the voting process?

Rove's crew stole the 2004 elections by hacking into the Ohio voting servers, and nobody noticed, because at the time the GOP was the war party and the country was still in a post-9/11 haze.
BearHunter
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bearister said:

Well, Fox News paid Dominion $787.5M….and you don't think Fox News paid someone $100M+ to try to prove those machines were corrupted….and came up with bupkis.


Voting machines can be hacked. And Democrats steal elections.
movielover
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I believe Germany outlawed computers for that reason.

Paper ballots and photo ID required. All gets counted in one night.
Cal88
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movielover said:

I believe Germany outlawed computers for that reason.

Paper ballots and photo ID required. All gets counted in one night.

Same in France, Canada, Switzerland etc.
dimitrig
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Cal88 said:

movielover said:

I believe Germany outlawed computers for that reason.

Paper ballots and photo ID required. All gets counted in one night.

Same in France, Canada, Switzerland etc.


Our country allows different states and localities to run elections any way they see fit.

However, it's not Democrats that oppose a national ID.

"In a nationwide survey conducted this summer by Leger for The Atlantic, 51 percent of respondents favored a national ID that could be used for voting, while 49 percent agreed with an opposing statement that a national ID would represent "an unnecessary expansion of government power and would be misused to infringe on Americans' privacy and personal freedoms." Support was far higher- 63 percent - among respondents who said they had voted for Joe Biden in 2020 than it was among those who said they had voted for Donald Trump (39 percent)."

Link:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/08/voting-rights-national-id-card/619772/

Cal88
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dimitrig said:

Cal88 said:

movielover said:

I believe Germany outlawed computers for that reason.

Paper ballots and photo ID required. All gets counted in one night.

Same in France, Canada, Switzerland etc.


Our country allows different states and localities to run elections any way they see fit.

However, it's not Democrats that oppose a national ID.

"In a nationwide survey conducted this summer by Leger for The Atlantic, 51 percent of respondents favored a national ID that could be used for voting, while 49 percent agreed with an opposing statement that a national ID would represent "an unnecessary expansion of government power and would be misused to infringe on Americans' privacy and personal freedoms." Support was far higher63 percentamong respondents who said they had voted for Joe Biden in 2020 than it was among those who said they had voted for Donald Trump (39 percent)."

Link:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/08/voting-rights-national-id-card/619772/


Your local state ID/drivers license would be just as good, no point in a national ID specifically made just for voting.
AunBear89
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Cal88 said:

movielover said:

I believe Germany outlawed computers for that reason.

Paper ballots and photo ID required. All gets counted in one night.

Same in France, Canada, Switzerland etc.


Yeah. It's really criminal that all those dimocRAT state legislatures required electric voting machines back. . . (What's that? It was Republican legislators under heavy lobbying pressure from companies like Diebold)

Never mind.
dimitrig
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Cal88 said:

dimitrig said:

Cal88 said:

movielover said:

I believe Germany outlawed computers for that reason.

Paper ballots and photo ID required. All gets counted in one night.

Same in France, Canada, Switzerland etc.


Our country allows different states and localities to run elections any way they see fit.

However, it's not Democrats that oppose a national ID.

"In a nationwide survey conducted this summer by Leger for The Atlantic, 51 percent of respondents favored a national ID that could be used for voting, while 49 percent agreed with an opposing statement that a national ID would represent "an unnecessary expansion of government power and would be misused to infringe on Americans' privacy and personal freedoms." Support was far higher63 percentamong respondents who said they had voted for Joe Biden in 2020 than it was among those who said they had voted for Donald Trump (39 percent)."

Link:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/08/voting-rights-national-id-card/619772/


Your local state ID/drivers license would be just as good, no point in a national ID specifically made just for voting.



Then each state would have its own requirements for what an acceptable ID is and how to obtain one.

Having federal oversight of elections seems like a good thing but Republican states aren't in favor of it because it would make it harder to suppress the vote.





movielover
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Fox News: Republicans blast Biden for releasing $6 billion in frozen Iran funds ahead of Hamas attack on Israel

At least 100 people have been killed in the assault.


Joe Biden did that.^^^
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