tequila4kapp said:

---

Ford and GM announce escalating losses on their EV segments between 1-1.5B per quarter.

---

Coal-powered EVs?

dajo9 said:

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tequila4kapp said:

---

Ford and GM announce escalating losses on their EV segments between 1-1.5B per quarter.

---

Other than Twitter, it is hard to think of other companies who tried so hard to fail on cultural grounds. Trump is right that China will dominate the EV market. Our corporate leaders are failing us.

---

People who buy American cars don't want electric vehicles because… America.

dimitrig said:

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dajo9 said:

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tequila4kapp said:

---

Ford and GM announce escalating losses on their EV segments between 1-1.5B per quarter.

---

Other than Twitter, it is hard to think of other companies who tried so hard to fail on cultural grounds. Trump is right that China will dominate the EV market. Our corporate leaders are failing us.

---

People who buy American cars don't want electric vehicles because… America.

---

They don't have great range, are slow to recharge and the perception, at least, is that they are expensive (unless you want a 30K Chevy Volt). Those are legit barriers to entry.

My range is plenty adequate for my 70 mile round trip commute. On the rare occasion I use a charging station, I have to rush through a meal to finish eating before I'm recharged and a Tesla Model 3 costs the same as the average new car (if not less with recent price reductions).

dajo9 said:

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My range is plenty adequate for my 70 mile round trip commute. On the rare occasion I use a charging station, I have to rush through a meal to finish eating before I'm recharged and a Tesla Model 3 costs the same as the average new car (if not less with recent price reductions).

---

Exactly my point. EVs are adequate for every day commuting. But if you want to actually travel you have to manage your stop / duration around the car's capacity. For many people that's a pretty big negative, as we are accustomed to being able to go wherever we want whenever we want however we want and refill virtually anywhere in about 5 minutes.

Tesla 3's start at @39K. Honda Accord starts at 28K. The tax credit brings the price of the 3 closer but historically consumers have had to wait to get that credit at the next tax filing cycle. Again, an inconvenience that is a barrier to entry for many. That appears to be changing this / next year - consumers can get the credit at the time of purchase, which is great.

tequila4kapp said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

My range is plenty adequate for my 70 mile round trip commute. On the rare occasion I use a charging station, I have to rush through a meal to finish eating before I'm recharged and a Tesla Model 3 costs the same as the average new car (if not less with recent price reductions).

---

Exactly my point. EVs are adequate for every day commuting. But if you want to actually travel you have to manage your stop / duration around the car's capacity. For many people that's a pretty big negative, as we are accustomed to being able to go wherever we want whenever we want however we want and refill virtually anywhere in about 5 minutes.

Tesla 3's start at @39K. Honda Accord starts at 28K. The tax credit brings the price of the 3 closer but historically consumers have had to wait to get that credit at the next tax filing cycle. Again, an inconvenience that is a barrier to entry for many. That appears to be changing this / next year - consumers can get the credit at the time of purchase, which is great.

---

You are deflecting. That wasn't the point you made at all. Most families have 2 cars. Our 2nd is a hybrid. Our lives are far more convenient as I've stopped at a gas station / charging station maybe 5 times this year and have never had to alter a trip because of our car ownership choices.

My point that a Tesla 3 costs the same as the average car is acknowledging there are cheaper cars (if you know what average means) so your 2nd paragraph is pointless.

Big C said:

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dajo9 said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

My range is plenty adequate for my 70 mile round trip commute. On the rare occasion I use a charging station, I have to rush through a meal to finish eating before I'm recharged and a Tesla Model 3 costs the same as the average new car (if not less with recent price reductions).

---

Exactly my point. EVs are adequate for every day commuting. But if you want to actually travel you have to manage your stop / duration around the car's capacity. For many people that's a pretty big negative, as we are accustomed to being able to go wherever we want whenever we want however we want and refill virtually anywhere in about 5 minutes.

Tesla 3's start at @39K. Honda Accord starts at 28K. The tax credit brings the price of the 3 closer but historically consumers have had to wait to get that credit at the next tax filing cycle. Again, an inconvenience that is a barrier to entry for many. That appears to be changing this / next year - consumers can get the credit at the time of purchase, which is great.

---

You are deflecting. That wasn't the point you made at all. Most families have 2 cars. Our 2nd is a hybrid. Our lives are far more convenient as I've stopped at a gas station / charging station maybe 5 times this year and have never had to alter a trip because of our car ownership choices.

My point that a Tesla 3 costs the same as the average car is acknowledging there are cheaper cars (if you know what average means) so your 2nd paragraph is pointless.

---

Just got my first ride in a Tesla last weekend: Bad first impression. 150 mile round trip. We had to stop to charge on the way back (car not fully charged when we left). "Don't worry, we will go to a Tesla supercharger and it'll only take 15 minutes!" Well, to get there, we had to go out of our way and pull off the freeway in Sacto (never fun) and wind our way to the bottom floor of a giant parking garage. Then it took us 5 minutes at the automated gate on the way out because the "I was only charging my Tesla" receipt didn't seem to work. Added 45 minutes to our trip, total.

Then, back on the freeway, I asked if the car had the self-drive feature. "Yes, I'll show you, but since we're on a freeway, it'll seem more like a simple cruise control." Well inside of 5 minutes, we got to a part of the freeway where they had been doing some lane restriping during the week. The car starts to take us onto the left-hand shoulder (at 70 mph). "Oops!"

Not eager to go somewhere in one of those again (admittedly small sample size).

---

I wouldn't touch self drive.

10% For The Big Guy said:

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dajo9 said:

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Big C said:

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dajo9 said:

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You are deflecting. That wasn't the point you made at all. Most families have 2 cars. Our 2nd is a hybrid. Our lives are far more convenient as I've stopped at a gas station / charging station maybe 5 times this year and have never had to alter a trip because of our car ownership choices.

My point that a Tesla 3 costs the same as the average car is acknowledging there are cheaper cars (if you know what average means) so your 2nd paragraph is pointless.

---

Just got my first ride in a Tesla last weekend: Bad first impression. 150 mile round trip. We had to stop to charge on the way back (car not fully charged when we left). "Don't worry, we will go to a Tesla supercharger and it'll only take 15 minutes!" Well, to get there, we had to go out of our way and pull off the freeway in Sacto (never fun) and wind our way to the bottom floor of a giant parking garage. Then it took us 5 minutes at the automated gate on the way out because the "I was only charging my Tesla" receipt didn't seem to work. Added 45 minutes to our trip, total.

Then, back on the freeway, I asked if the car had the self-drive feature. "Yes, I'll show you, but since we're on a freeway, it'll seem more like a simple cruise control." Well inside of 5 minutes, we got to a part of the freeway where they had been doing some lane restriping during the week. The car starts to take us onto the left-hand shoulder (at 70 mph). "Oops!"

Not eager to go somewhere in one of those again (admittedly small sample size).

---

I wouldn't touch self drive.

---

When I think of all the self-loathing you must do each day getting into your "Elmobile", I get a big smile on my face.

---

Ha. If I never used anything because of the politics of the owner I'd have to rule out a lot. Probably won't get a Tesla for my next EV but we'll see.

Big C said:

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dajo9 said:

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tequila4kapp said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

My range is plenty adequate for my 70 mile round trip commute. On the rare occasion I use a charging station, I have to rush through a meal to finish eating before I'm recharged and a Tesla Model 3 costs the same as the average new car (if not less with recent price reductions).

---

Exactly my point. EVs are adequate for every day commuting. But if you want to actually travel you have to manage your stop / duration around the car's capacity. For many people that's a pretty big negative, as we are accustomed to being able to go wherever we want whenever we want however we want and refill virtually anywhere in about 5 minutes.

Tesla 3's start at @39K. Honda Accord starts at 28K. The tax credit brings the price of the 3 closer but historically consumers have had to wait to get that credit at the next tax filing cycle. Again, an inconvenience that is a barrier to entry for many. That appears to be changing this / next year - consumers can get the credit at the time of purchase, which is great.

---

You are deflecting. That wasn't the point you made at all. Most families have 2 cars. Our 2nd is a hybrid. Our lives are far more convenient as I've stopped at a gas station / charging station maybe 5 times this year and have never had to alter a trip because of our car ownership choices.

My point that a Tesla 3 costs the same as the average car is acknowledging there are cheaper cars (if you know what average means) so your 2nd paragraph is pointless.

---

Just got my first ride in a Tesla last weekend: Bad first impression. 150 mile round trip. We had to stop to charge on the way back (car not fully charged when we left). "Don't worry, we will go to a Tesla supercharger and it'll only take 15 minutes!" Well, to get there, we had to go out of our way and pull off the freeway in Sacto (never fun) and wind our way to the bottom floor of a giant parking garage. Then it took us 5 minutes at the automated gate on the way out because the "I was only charging my Tesla" receipt didn't seem to work. Added 45 minutes to our trip, total.

Then, back on the freeway, I asked if the car had the self-drive feature. "Yes, I'll show you, but since we're on a freeway, it'll seem more like a simple cruise control." Well inside of 5 minutes, we got to a part of the freeway where they had been doing some lane restriping during the week. The car starts to take us onto the left-hand shoulder (at 70 mph). "Oops!"

Not eager to go somewhere in one of those again (admittedly small sample size).

---

Now my Tesla FSD experience was fantastic and given that my wife doesn't ever want me driving since my seizures seven months ago I may just have to reconsider my 'buy inexpensive cars' stance if I ever want to drive again. I realize that there are still glitches in the software but while humans get worse (because we won't crack down on driving while on our phones, for example) AI gets better. That is an undisputed fact.

movielover said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

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Ford and GM announce escalating losses on their EV segments between 1-1.5B per quarter.

---

Coal-powered EVs?

---

…Are still less polluting than gas burning internal combustion engines, so they tell us.

82gradDLSdad said:

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Big C said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

My range is plenty adequate for my 70 mile round trip commute. On the rare occasion I use a charging station, I have to rush through a meal to finish eating before I'm recharged and a Tesla Model 3 costs the same as the average new car (if not less with recent price reductions).

---

Exactly my point. EVs are adequate for every day commuting. But if you want to actually travel you have to manage your stop / duration around the car's capacity. For many people that's a pretty big negative, as we are accustomed to being able to go wherever we want whenever we want however we want and refill virtually anywhere in about 5 minutes.

Tesla 3's start at @39K. Honda Accord starts at 28K. The tax credit brings the price of the 3 closer but historically consumers have had to wait to get that credit at the next tax filing cycle. Again, an inconvenience that is a barrier to entry for many. That appears to be changing this / next year - consumers can get the credit at the time of purchase, which is great.

---

You are deflecting. That wasn't the point you made at all. Most families have 2 cars. Our 2nd is a hybrid. Our lives are far more convenient as I've stopped at a gas station / charging station maybe 5 times this year and have never had to alter a trip because of our car ownership choices.

My point that a Tesla 3 costs the same as the average car is acknowledging there are cheaper cars (if you know what average means) so your 2nd paragraph is pointless.

---

Just got my first ride in a Tesla last weekend: Bad first impression. 150 mile round trip. We had to stop to charge on the way back (car not fully charged when we left). "Don't worry, we will go to a Tesla supercharger and it'll only take 15 minutes!" Well, to get there, we had to go out of our way and pull off the freeway in Sacto (never fun) and wind our way to the bottom floor of a giant parking garage. Then it took us 5 minutes at the automated gate on the way out because the "I was only charging my Tesla" receipt didn't seem to work. Added 45 minutes to our trip, total.

Then, back on the freeway, I asked if the car had the self-drive feature. "Yes, I'll show you, but since we're on a freeway, it'll seem more like a simple cruise control." Well inside of 5 minutes, we got to a part of the freeway where they had been doing some lane restriping during the week. The car starts to take us onto the left-hand shoulder (at 70 mph). "Oops!"

Not eager to go somewhere in one of those again (admittedly small sample size).

---

Now my Tesla FSD experience was fantastic and given that my wife doesn't ever want me driving since my seizures seven months ago I may just have to reconsider my 'buy inexpensive cars' stance if I ever want to drive again. I realize that there are still glitches in the software but while humans get worse (because we won't crack down on driving while on our phones, for example) AI gets better. That is an undisputed fact.

---

Yeah, I wouldn't trust self driving right now.
But it's just a matter of time when it'll be normal and accepted.
And it'll be great to be able for anyone of any age and ability to have a personal chauffeur on call 24/7/365.

Unfortunately, roads will be clogged because people will be using them to run errands like driving a book to mom's, or the fog to the groomer.

I read an article about the coming era of per mile taxation.

dimitrig said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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From # Breitbart reports:
-
GM CEO Mary Barra, a close ally of Biden's, has said the automaker will not begin to attempt to produce 400,000 EVs from 2022 through mid-2024 as initially planned. GM is also delaying retooling its plant in Orion Township, Michigan, to build EV pickup trucks. *** In addition, GM executives are having to delay launching a number of their EV models such as the Chevrolet Equinox EV, the Chevrolet Silverado EV RST, and the GMC Sierra EV Denali.

Those launch delays have coincided with GM and Honda ending their billion-dollar joint venture to produce affordable EVs for Americans as well as markets in South America and China.

The end of that joint venture comes as demand for EVs among Americans has plummeted with the all-electric cars staying on dealership lots for an average of 65 days way up from last year's average of about 21 days.
"The American public is not ready for the broad adoption of electric vehicles. There are maybe 10 percent to 12 percent of people who really want an electric vehicle … the remainder still want internal combustion," former GM executive Bob Lutz said this week.
-
Meanwhile, Tesla has seen a dip in net income, which came in at $1.85 billion in the third quarter. At the same time in 2022, net income for the electric automaker was $3.29 billion. As a result, Tesla is planning to delay its production plant set for Mexico.

At Mercedes-Benz, EVs are so hard to sell that the automaker is having to effectively put them on clearance at enormously discounted prices to get them off dealership lots, according to Business Inside

Even with massive taxpayer-funded subsidies spearheaded by the Biden administration, EVs remain costly ***
The average EV, in October, cost nearly $60,000 without the Biden tax credits more than $10,000 above the average industry price, according to figures published in the Detroit Free Press.

---

Must be why I see so many Teslas, Rivians, and other EV and hybrid cars everywhere.

22% of new cars sales in California are EVs and as California goes so goes the rest of the country - just usually a decade later and in some places two decades later.

Link:
https://fortune.com/2023/09/08/electric-vehicles-new-car-sales-in-california-now-22-percent-rest-us-following-path/amp/

---

Interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

movielover said:

---

Biden Admonistration (Liberals): DEI / abortion > competency

I'm hearing McConnell deputies and allies, including Lindsay Graham, Joni Ernst, Todd Young, and Dan Sullivan, told colleagues today they're planning an attack on Tommy Tuberville's hold on military promotions, modeled after Elizabeth Warren's attack a few months ago. Tuberville…

— Mollie (@MZHemingway) November 1, 2023

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I know reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, but the tweet clearly says McConnell deputies and allies. When did Republican Senators and Congressmen and their staffs become part of the Biden administration?

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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movielover said:

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Biden Admonistration (Liberals): DEI / abortion > competency

I'm hearing McConnell deputies and allies, including Lindsay Graham, Joni Ernst, Todd Young, and Dan Sullivan, told colleagues today they're planning an attack on Tommy Tuberville's hold on military promotions, modeled after Elizabeth Warren's attack a few months ago. Tuberville…

— Mollie (@MZHemingway) November 1, 2023

---

I know reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, but the tweet clearly says McConnell deputies and allies. When did Republican Senators and Congressmen and their staffs become part of the Biden administration?

---

All this really shows is that everyone is getting sick of Tuberville's bulls**t.

movielover said:

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It Begins. Biden's DOJ Starts Arresting Trump Supporters Who Stood Outside the US Capitol and Committed No Violence – Despite Registered Rallies on Capitol Grounds that Day https://t.co/rsPTbgU3dO #gatewaypundit via @gatewaypundit

— Catturd ™ (@catturd2) November 1, 2023

---

Who and what are the charges?

dajo9 said:

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movielover said:

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It Begins. Biden's DOJ Starts Arresting Trump Supporters Who Stood Outside the US Capitol and Committed No Violence – Despite Registered Rallies on Capitol Grounds that Day https://t.co/rsPTbgU3dO #gatewaypundit via @gatewaypundit

— Catturd ™ (@catturd2) November 1, 2023

---

Who and what are the charges?

---

Also, the map clearly says January 6th, 2021. Biden didn't take office until January 20th, so it was the Trump DOJ rounding up protesters.

tequila4kapp said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

From # Breitbart reports:
-
GM CEO Mary Barra, a close ally of Biden's, has said the automaker will not begin to attempt to produce 400,000 EVs from 2022 through mid-2024 as initially planned. GM is also delaying retooling its plant in Orion Township, Michigan, to build EV pickup trucks. *** In addition, GM executives are having to delay launching a number of their EV models such as the Chevrolet Equinox EV, the Chevrolet Silverado EV RST, and the GMC Sierra EV Denali.

Those launch delays have coincided with GM and Honda ending their billion-dollar joint venture to produce affordable EVs for Americans as well as markets in South America and China.

The end of that joint venture comes as demand for EVs among Americans has plummeted with the all-electric cars staying on dealership lots for an average of 65 days way up from last year's average of about 21 days.
"The American public is not ready for the broad adoption of electric vehicles. There are maybe 10 percent to 12 percent of people who really want an electric vehicle … the remainder still want internal combustion," former GM executive Bob Lutz said this week.
-
Meanwhile, Tesla has seen a dip in net income, which came in at $1.85 billion in the third quarter. At the same time in 2022, net income for the electric automaker was $3.29 billion. As a result, Tesla is planning to delay its production plant set for Mexico.

At Mercedes-Benz, EVs are so hard to sell that the automaker is having to effectively put them on clearance at enormously discounted prices to get them off dealership lots, according to Business Inside

Even with massive taxpayer-funded subsidies spearheaded by the Biden administration, EVs remain costly ***
The average EV, in October, cost nearly $60,000 without the Biden tax credits more than $10,000 above the average industry price, according to figures published in the Detroit Free Press.

---

Must be why I see so many Teslas, Rivians, and other EV and hybrid cars everywhere.

22% of new cars sales in California are EVs and as California goes so goes the rest of the country - just usually a decade later and in some places two decades later.

Link:
https://fortune.com/2023/09/08/electric-vehicles-new-car-sales-in-california-now-22-percent-rest-us-following-path/amp/

---

Interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

---

If you are in California, well, that is a state with more rich folks and they are the ones who buy the EVs. I live a middle to upper middle class neighborhood, and there are more Teslas in my neighborhood than I've seen anywhere except on a Tesla dealer's lot. I see so many kids who are college age, driving Teslas here in town. They either have rich parents or they are making money in Tech companies. The rest of the states for the most part don't have that many rich people yet to begin mass buying of Teslas. It is a car for elitists, IMO.

I think we will see a slow-down in Tesla sales, if the government changes to Republican control and ends the subsidies to manufacturers, EV buyers, and the subsidies to car buyers to put solar panels and charging systems in homes. And people living in older dense cities like mine, with many cars having to park on the street overnight, with no ready place to charge up, may think twice about that Tesla. They are a bad idea. Another necessary massive expense to the government and the taxpayer is to expand the electric grid, using lots of labor and lots of copper wire. Copper is a very expensive metal. Musk could not build Teslas without government subsidies, electric grids cannot be built without government money, and consumers can not afford them without subsidies for the car and the solar panels and chargers.

I find it hard to believe that the increase in pollution from power plants is not greater than the pollution from the internal combustion engines they hope to replace. I have read the articles saying that it is less, but they are all written by so-called journalists. I would be more likely to believe what the scientists and engineers have to say on this, but even they can be bought and paid for, as is the case in catastrophic climate change. I have enough credentials to do my own research on this, so when I get a few spare months, I'd like to try an prove or disprove what I wrote here. It would be a waste of my time to apply for a grant, as the system for giving out grants is too well rigged by the politicians, as is the case again with climate change. Right now they are in bed with the EV industry. As a taxpayer I resent having the government spend money to enrich the EV industry, who sell their EVs to the elite upper middle and upper classes.

For my money, the hybrids are probably still the best route, combining the best of both worlds, and meeting conservation goals as well.

dajo9 said:

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Big C said:

---

dajo9 said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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dajo9 said:

---

My range is plenty adequate for my 70 mile round trip commute. On the rare occasion I use a charging station, I have to rush through a meal to finish eating before I'm recharged and a Tesla Model 3 costs the same as the average new car (if not less with recent price reductions).

---

Exactly my point. EVs are adequate for every day commuting. But if you want to actually travel you have to manage your stop / duration around the car's capacity. For many people that's a pretty big negative, as we are accustomed to being able to go wherever we want whenever we want however we want and refill virtually anywhere in about 5 minutes.

Tesla 3's start at @39K. Honda Accord starts at 28K. The tax credit brings the price of the 3 closer but historically consumers have had to wait to get that credit at the next tax filing cycle. Again, an inconvenience that is a barrier to entry for many. That appears to be changing this / next year - consumers can get the credit at the time of purchase, which is great.

---

You are deflecting. That wasn't the point you made at all. Most families have 2 cars. Our 2nd is a hybrid. Our lives are far more convenient as I've stopped at a gas station / charging station maybe 5 times this year and have never had to alter a trip because of our car ownership choices.

My point that a Tesla 3 costs the same as the average car is acknowledging there are cheaper cars (if you know what average means) so your 2nd paragraph is pointless.

---

Just got my first ride in a Tesla last weekend: Bad first impression. 150 mile round trip. We had to stop to charge on the way back (car not fully charged when we left). "Don't worry, we will go to a Tesla supercharger and it'll only take 15 minutes!" Well, to get there, we had to go out of our way and pull off the freeway in Sacto (never fun) and wind our way to the bottom floor of a giant parking garage. Then it took us 5 minutes at the automated gate on the way out because the "I was only charging my Tesla" receipt didn't seem to work. Added 45 minutes to our trip, total.

Then, back on the freeway, I asked if the car had the self-drive feature. "Yes, I'll show you, but since we're on a freeway, it'll seem more like a simple cruise control." Well inside of 5 minutes, we got to a part of the freeway where they had been doing some lane restriping during the week. The car starts to take us onto the left-hand shoulder (at 70 mph). "Oops!"

Not eager to go somewhere in one of those again (admittedly small sample size).

---

I wouldn't touch self drive.

---

I wouldn't either....But then I would have guessed that about you....We control freaks on either side of the political spectrum have trouble with giving it up. How do I know that about you? Best guess based on your tenacity of posting.

OdontoBear66 said:

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dajo9 said:

---

Big C said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

My range is plenty adequate for my 70 mile round trip commute. On the rare occasion I use a charging station, I have to rush through a meal to finish eating before I'm recharged and a Tesla Model 3 costs the same as the average new car (if not less with recent price reductions).

---

Exactly my point. EVs are adequate for every day commuting. But if you want to actually travel you have to manage your stop / duration around the car's capacity. For many people that's a pretty big negative, as we are accustomed to being able to go wherever we want whenever we want however we want and refill virtually anywhere in about 5 minutes.

Tesla 3's start at @39K. Honda Accord starts at 28K. The tax credit brings the price of the 3 closer but historically consumers have had to wait to get that credit at the next tax filing cycle. Again, an inconvenience that is a barrier to entry for many. That appears to be changing this / next year - consumers can get the credit at the time of purchase, which is great.

---

You are deflecting. That wasn't the point you made at all. Most families have 2 cars. Our 2nd is a hybrid. Our lives are far more convenient as I've stopped at a gas station / charging station maybe 5 times this year and have never had to alter a trip because of our car ownership choices.

My point that a Tesla 3 costs the same as the average car is acknowledging there are cheaper cars (if you know what average means) so your 2nd paragraph is pointless.

---

Just got my first ride in a Tesla last weekend: Bad first impression. 150 mile round trip. We had to stop to charge on the way back (car not fully charged when we left). "Don't worry, we will go to a Tesla supercharger and it'll only take 15 minutes!" Well, to get there, we had to go out of our way and pull off the freeway in Sacto (never fun) and wind our way to the bottom floor of a giant parking garage. Then it took us 5 minutes at the automated gate on the way out because the "I was only charging my Tesla" receipt didn't seem to work. Added 45 minutes to our trip, total.

Then, back on the freeway, I asked if the car had the self-drive feature. "Yes, I'll show you, but since we're on a freeway, it'll seem more like a simple cruise control." Well inside of 5 minutes, we got to a part of the freeway where they had been doing some lane restriping during the week. The car starts to take us onto the left-hand shoulder (at 70 mph). "Oops!"

Not eager to go somewhere in one of those again (admittedly small sample size).

---

I wouldn't touch self drive.

---

I wouldn't either....But then I would have guessed that about you....We control freaks on either side of the political spectrum have trouble with giving it up. How do I know that about you? Best guess based on your tenacious of posting.

---

Yes, that and all the reports of life endangerment

dajo9 said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

Big C said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

My range is plenty adequate for my 70 mile round trip commute. On the rare occasion I use a charging station, I have to rush through a meal to finish eating before I'm recharged and a Tesla Model 3 costs the same as the average new car (if not less with recent price reductions).

---

Exactly my point. EVs are adequate for every day commuting. But if you want to actually travel you have to manage your stop / duration around the car's capacity. For many people that's a pretty big negative, as we are accustomed to being able to go wherever we want whenever we want however we want and refill virtually anywhere in about 5 minutes.

Tesla 3's start at @39K. Honda Accord starts at 28K. The tax credit brings the price of the 3 closer but historically consumers have had to wait to get that credit at the next tax filing cycle. Again, an inconvenience that is a barrier to entry for many. That appears to be changing this / next year - consumers can get the credit at the time of purchase, which is great.

---

You are deflecting. That wasn't the point you made at all. Most families have 2 cars. Our 2nd is a hybrid. Our lives are far more convenient as I've stopped at a gas station / charging station maybe 5 times this year and have never had to alter a trip because of our car ownership choices.

My point that a Tesla 3 costs the same as the average car is acknowledging there are cheaper cars (if you know what average means) so your 2nd paragraph is pointless.

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Just got my first ride in a Tesla last weekend: Bad first impression. 150 mile round trip. We had to stop to charge on the way back (car not fully charged when we left). "Don't worry, we will go to a Tesla supercharger and it'll only take 15 minutes!" Well, to get there, we had to go out of our way and pull off the freeway in Sacto (never fun) and wind our way to the bottom floor of a giant parking garage. Then it took us 5 minutes at the automated gate on the way out because the "I was only charging my Tesla" receipt didn't seem to work. Added 45 minutes to our trip, total.

Then, back on the freeway, I asked if the car had the self-drive feature. "Yes, I'll show you, but since we're on a freeway, it'll seem more like a simple cruise control." Well inside of 5 minutes, we got to a part of the freeway where they had been doing some lane restriping during the week. The car starts to take us onto the left-hand shoulder (at 70 mph). "Oops!"

Not eager to go somewhere in one of those again (admittedly small sample size).

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I wouldn't touch self drive.

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I wouldn't either....But then I would have guessed that about you....We control freaks on either side of the political spectrum have trouble with giving it up. How do I know that about you? Best guess based on your tenacious of posting.

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Yes, that and all the reports of life endangerment

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Like your style....Couldn't agree more.

Unit2Sucks said:

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If anyone cared about the twitter files, they could be considered a hoax. I don't follow the dude but from what I hear Taibbi is having a meltdown because he got smoked for his shoddy "reporting".

I’ve seen Faces of Death videos with less brutal depictions of murder.

— Kaveh MD (@thehouseofpod) April 6, 2023

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Congratulations to @mtaibbi , @bariweiss & @shellenberger for winning the first annual Dao Prize from the National Journalism Center tonight in recognition of their reporting on the Twitter Files

Proud to know them all, proud to be here tonight

This matters pic.twitter.com/y6NsrMQsLK

— Walter Kirn (@walterkirn) November 2, 2023

movielover said:

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concordtom said:

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movielover said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Ford and GM announce escalating losses on their EV segments between 1-1.5B per quarter.

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Coal-powered EVs?

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…Are still less polluting than gas burning internal combustion engines, so they tell us.

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Have you factored in all the toxic chemicals used and encountered during production and disposal?

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I didn't do the studies.