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sycasey
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SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

movielover said:



Trump says he "has a very good relationship with both Zelensky and Putin," and that he "will end the war in Ukraine in one day" (if elected again).

But if he has such a good relationship with Putin right now, why doesn't he end the war today? Why does he want to wait to first be elected to end the war?

Because he's not the president right now, he's just a dude from Queens who spends a lot of time in his Florida shack.

He hasn't articulated why being President would change his "very good" relationship with Putin, so why doesn't he leverage that good relationship now and prove he's as great of a deal-maker as he claims?

Edit: Answer is he won't do it because he's a liar and a fraud. If he could do it now, he would win the election and stay out of jail, which proves he can't.
Ridiculous. He can do nothing right now, because he is not President. He has no power. He has no control over our support of Ukraine. He has no chips in this game. What is he going to offer Putin or Zelensky?

Precisely. He can't end the war "in one day" now because he obviously has no skills in real persuasion (i.e., real "deal-making"), so he could never do it (even hypothetically) unless he had the power to threaten Zelensky.

You want the war to end on Putin's terms (and keep Trump out of jail)? Vote Trump!
Even more ridiculous. Trump kept Putin out of Ukraine for 4 years just by being President.

It's "ridiculous" to say Trump winning would keep him out of jail and do everything possible to end the war on Putin's Terms? How so?
It is ridiculous to say "You want....." when you have no idea of what I want. Know your own mind, before you try and tell others what their minds are thinking.

While I agree with the general point, surely you know that you and others say exactly the same kind of thing about "liberals" or "the left" constantly?
OsoDorado
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SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

movielover said:



Trump says he "has a very good relationship with both Zelensky and Putin," and that he "will end the war in Ukraine in one day" (if elected again).

But if he has such a good relationship with Putin right now, why doesn't he end the war today? Why does he want to wait to first be elected to end the war?

Because he's not the president right now, he's just a dude from Queens who spends a lot of time in his Florida shack.

He hasn't articulated why being President would change his "very good" relationship with Putin, so why doesn't he leverage that good relationship now and prove he's as great of a deal-maker as he claims?

Edit: Answer is he won't do it because he's a liar and a fraud. If he could do it now, he would win the election and stay out of jail, which proves he can't.
Ridiculous. He can do nothing right now, because he is not President. He has no power. He has no control over our support of Ukraine. He has no chips in this game. What is he going to offer Putin or Zelensky?

Precisely. He can't end the war "in one day" now because he obviously has no skills in real persuasion (i.e., real "deal-making"), so he could never do it (even hypothetically) unless he had the power to threaten Zelensky.

You want the war to end on Putin's terms (and keep Trump out of jail)? Vote Trump!
Even more ridiculous. Trump kept Putin out of Ukraine for 4 years just by being President.

It's "ridiculous" to say Trump winning would keep him out of jail and do everything possible to end the war on Putin's Terms? How so?
It is ridiculous to say "You want....." when you have no idea of what I want. Know your own mind, before you try and tell others what their minds are thinking.

What I'm saying is IF (big "IF") you vote for Trump, you are implicitly wanting Trump to stay out of jail and end the war in Ukraine on Putin's terms.

What's "ridiculous" about that ?
Cal88
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OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

movielover said:



Trump says he "has a very good relationship with both Zelensky and Putin," and that he "will end the war in Ukraine in one day" (if elected again).

But if he has such a good relationship with Putin right now, why doesn't he end the war today? Why does he want to wait to first be elected to end the war?

Because he's not the president right now, he's just a dude from Queens who spends a lot of time in his Florida shack.

He hasn't articulated why being President would change his "very good" relationship with Putin, so why doesn't he leverage that good relationship now and prove he's as great of a deal-maker as he claims?

Edit: Answer is he won't do it because he's a liar and a fraud. If he could do it now, he would win the election and stay out of jail, which proves he can't.
Ridiculous. He can do nothing right now, because he is not President. He has no power. He has no control over our support of Ukraine. He has no chips in this game. What is he going to offer Putin or Zelensky?

Precisely. He can't end the war "in one day" now because he obviously has no skills in real persuasion (i.e., real "deal-making"), so he could never do it (even hypothetically) unless he had the power to threaten Zelensky.

You want the war to end on Putin's terms (and keep Trump out of jail)? Vote Trump!
Even more ridiculous. Trump kept Putin out of Ukraine for 4 years just by being President.

It's "ridiculous" to say Trump winning would keep him out of jail and do everything possible to end the war on Putin's Terms? How so?
It is ridiculous to say "You want....." when you have no idea of what I want. Know your own mind, before you try and tell others what their minds are thinking.

What I'm saying is IF (big "IF") you vote for Trump, you are implicitly wanting Trump to stay out of jail and end the war in Ukraine on Putin's terms.

What's "ridiculous" about that ?

The options here are to end the war, or keep it going to the last Ukrainian, on the terms of the corrupt political class (Lindsay Graham et al), the MIC, Blackrock etc.

As well, the longer the war drags, the more its ensuing settlement will be on Russia's terms, that is the reality of this conflict. Over 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died so far, its continuation is a tragedy based on lies.
dajo9
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Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

movielover said:



Trump says he "has a very good relationship with both Zelensky and Putin," and that he "will end the war in Ukraine in one day" (if elected again).

But if he has such a good relationship with Putin right now, why doesn't he end the war today? Why does he want to wait to first be elected to end the war?

Because he's not the president right now, he's just a dude from Queens who spends a lot of time in his Florida shack.

He hasn't articulated why being President would change his "very good" relationship with Putin, so why doesn't he leverage that good relationship now and prove he's as great of a deal-maker as he claims?

Edit: Answer is he won't do it because he's a liar and a fraud. If he could do it now, he would win the election and stay out of jail, which proves he can't.
Ridiculous. He can do nothing right now, because he is not President. He has no power. He has no control over our support of Ukraine. He has no chips in this game. What is he going to offer Putin or Zelensky?

Precisely. He can't end the war "in one day" now because he obviously has no skills in real persuasion (i.e., real "deal-making"), so he could never do it (even hypothetically) unless he had the power to threaten Zelensky.

You want the war to end on Putin's terms (and keep Trump out of jail)? Vote Trump!
Even more ridiculous. Trump kept Putin out of Ukraine for 4 years just by being President.

It's "ridiculous" to say Trump winning would keep him out of jail and do everything possible to end the war on Putin's Terms? How so?
It is ridiculous to say "You want....." when you have no idea of what I want. Know your own mind, before you try and tell others what their minds are thinking.

What I'm saying is IF (big "IF") you vote for Trump, you are implicitly wanting Trump to stay out of jail and end the war in Ukraine on Putin's terms.

What's "ridiculous" about that ?

The options here are to end the war, or keep it going to the last Ukrainian, on the terms of the corrupt political class (Lindsay Graham et al), the MIC, Blackrock etc.

As well, the longer the war drags, the more its ensuing settlement will be on Russia's terms, that is the reality of this conflict. Over 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died so far, its continuation is a tragedy based on lies.


This is a lie
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

movielover said:



Trump says he "has a very good relationship with both Zelensky and Putin," and that he "will end the war in Ukraine in one day" (if elected again).

But if he has such a good relationship with Putin right now, why doesn't he end the war today? Why does he want to wait to first be elected to end the war?

Because he's not the president right now, he's just a dude from Queens who spends a lot of time in his Florida shack.

He hasn't articulated why being President would change his "very good" relationship with Putin, so why doesn't he leverage that good relationship now and prove he's as great of a deal-maker as he claims?

Edit: Answer is he won't do it because he's a liar and a fraud. If he could do it now, he would win the election and stay out of jail, which proves he can't.
Ridiculous. He can do nothing right now, because he is not President. He has no power. He has no control over our support of Ukraine. He has no chips in this game. What is he going to offer Putin or Zelensky?

Precisely. He can't end the war "in one day" now because he obviously has no skills in real persuasion (i.e., real "deal-making"), so he could never do it (even hypothetically) unless he had the power to threaten Zelensky.

You want the war to end on Putin's terms (and keep Trump out of jail)? Vote Trump!
Even more ridiculous. Trump kept Putin out of Ukraine for 4 years just by being President.

It's "ridiculous" to say Trump winning would keep him out of jail and do everything possible to end the war on Putin's Terms? How so?
It is ridiculous to say "You want....." when you have no idea of what I want. Know your own mind, before you try and tell others what their minds are thinking.

What I'm saying is IF (big "IF") you vote for Trump, you are implicitly wanting Trump to stay out of jail and end the war in Ukraine on Putin's terms.

What's "ridiculous" about that ?

The options here are to end the war, or keep it going to the last Ukrainian, on the terms of the corrupt political class (Lindsay Graham et al), the MIC, Blackrock etc.

As well, the longer the war drags, the more its ensuing settlement will be on Russia's terms, that is the reality of this conflict. Over 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died so far, its continuation is a tragedy based on lies.

This is a lie

The lie here, which you and the other neoliberal midbrows keep pushing, is to deny this reality based on a misguided ideological worldview:

movielover
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[600K dead] If not more. Plus 100K amputees, 200-300K injured, and millions fled, never to return.

Contrary to the sleepwalking Progressives here, I am open and dig for new sources, new, objective ways to analyze what is going on in Ukraine.

About a year ago I started reading the Kiev Independent online. What jumped out to me in the article about the war were the ages of the soldiers. Vladimir, 46, Andriy, 58, Boryslav, 49. Where were the men in their 20s and 30s? Either dead or in the EU. Same for video clips, lots of grandfather's fighting.
Cal88
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movielover said:

[600K dead] If not more. Plus 100K amputees, 200-300K injured, and millions fled, never to return.

Contrary to the sleepwalking Progressives here, I am open and dig for new sources, new, objective ways to analyze what is going on in Ukraine.

About a year ago I started reading the Kiev Independent online. What jumped out to me in the article about the war were the ages of the soldiers. Vladimir, 46, Andriy, 58, Boryslav, 49. Where were the men in their 20s and 30s? Either dead or in the EU. Same for video clips, lots of grandfather's fighting.

Ukraine's demography before the war started was already catastrophic, now it's even beyond that. Ukraine had 50 million people in 1990, about 32 at the beginning of the decade. Today there are less than 20 million people living in the territories held by the Kiev government, and that population skews heavily towards an older demographic.

This is the population pyramid of Kiev before and after the war, th picture is significantly worse today, a lot of the young men that could leave have already left.:

dajo9
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Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

movielover said:



Trump says he "has a very good relationship with both Zelensky and Putin," and that he "will end the war in Ukraine in one day" (if elected again).

But if he has such a good relationship with Putin right now, why doesn't he end the war today? Why does he want to wait to first be elected to end the war?

Because he's not the president right now, he's just a dude from Queens who spends a lot of time in his Florida shack.

He hasn't articulated why being President would change his "very good" relationship with Putin, so why doesn't he leverage that good relationship now and prove he's as great of a deal-maker as he claims?

Edit: Answer is he won't do it because he's a liar and a fraud. If he could do it now, he would win the election and stay out of jail, which proves he can't.
Ridiculous. He can do nothing right now, because he is not President. He has no power. He has no control over our support of Ukraine. He has no chips in this game. What is he going to offer Putin or Zelensky?

Precisely. He can't end the war "in one day" now because he obviously has no skills in real persuasion (i.e., real "deal-making"), so he could never do it (even hypothetically) unless he had the power to threaten Zelensky.

You want the war to end on Putin's terms (and keep Trump out of jail)? Vote Trump!
Even more ridiculous. Trump kept Putin out of Ukraine for 4 years just by being President.

It's "ridiculous" to say Trump winning would keep him out of jail and do everything possible to end the war on Putin's Terms? How so?
It is ridiculous to say "You want....." when you have no idea of what I want. Know your own mind, before you try and tell others what their minds are thinking.

What I'm saying is IF (big "IF") you vote for Trump, you are implicitly wanting Trump to stay out of jail and end the war in Ukraine on Putin's terms.

What's "ridiculous" about that ?

The options here are to end the war, or keep it going to the last Ukrainian, on the terms of the corrupt political class (Lindsay Graham et al), the MIC, Blackrock etc.

As well, the longer the war drags, the more its ensuing settlement will be on Russia's terms, that is the reality of this conflict. Over 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died so far, its continuation is a tragedy based on lies.

This is a lie

The lie here, which you and the other neoliberal midbrows keep pushing, is to deny this reality based on a misguided ideological worldview:




Still waiting for you to speak to your frequently repeated lie about the number of killed Ukrainians
Eastern Oregon Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cal88 said:

movielover said:

[600K dead] If not more. Plus 100K amputees, 200-300K injured, and millions fled, never to return.

Contrary to the sleepwalking Progressives here, I am open and dig for new sources, new, objective ways to analyze what is going on in Ukraine.

About a year ago I started reading the Kiev Independent online. What jumped out to me in the article about the war were the ages of the soldiers. Vladimir, 46, Andriy, 58, Boryslav, 49. Where were the men in their 20s and 30s? Either dead or in the EU. Same for video clips, lots of grandfather's fighting.

Ukraine's demography before the war started was already catastrophic, now it's even beyond that. Ukraine had 50 million people in 1990, about 32 at the beginning of the decade. Today there are less than 20 million people living in the territories held by the Kiev government, and that population skews heavily towards an older demographic.

This is the population pyramid of Kiev before and after the war, th picture is significantly worse today, a lot of the young men that could leave have already left.:


If Ukraine is throwing all their adult males into the meat grinder, why have they lost more women than men? Or proportionally, more children than adults?
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Cal88 said:

movielover said:

[600K dead] If not more. Plus 100K amputees, 200-300K injured, and millions fled, never to return.

Contrary to the sleepwalking Progressives here, I am open and dig for new sources, new, objective ways to analyze what is going on in Ukraine.

About a year ago I started reading the Kiev Independent online. What jumped out to me in the article about the war were the ages of the soldiers. Vladimir, 46, Andriy, 58, Boryslav, 49. Where were the men in their 20s and 30s? Either dead or in the EU. Same for video clips, lots of grandfather's fighting.

Ukraine's demography before the war started was already catastrophic, now it's even beyond that. Ukraine had 50 million people in 1990, about 32 at the beginning of the decade. Today there are less than 20 million people living in the territories held by the Kiev government, and that population skews heavily towards an older demographic.

This is the population pyramid of Kiev before and after the war, th picture is significantly worse today, a lot of the young men that could leave have already left.:


If Ukraine is throwing all their adult males into the meat grinder, why have they lost more women than men? Or proportionally, more children than adults?

Younger/working age Ukrainian women have left for Poland, Slovakia, Germany where they get housing and stipends. A lot of those who have relatives in Russia have gone there as well.

This was the overall picture of Ukrainian departures only 2 months into the war, more than 2 years ago. The women are fre to travel, the men of military age (16 to 60 in Ukraine!) are not allowed to leave the country, though many do manage to escape the meat grinder and cross over.

Cal88
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dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

movielover said:



Trump says he "has a very good relationship with both Zelensky and Putin," and that he "will end the war in Ukraine in one day" (if elected again).

But if he has such a good relationship with Putin right now, why doesn't he end the war today? Why does he want to wait to first be elected to end the war?

Because he's not the president right now, he's just a dude from Queens who spends a lot of time in his Florida shack.

He hasn't articulated why being President would change his "very good" relationship with Putin, so why doesn't he leverage that good relationship now and prove he's as great of a deal-maker as he claims?

Edit: Answer is he won't do it because he's a liar and a fraud. If he could do it now, he would win the election and stay out of jail, which proves he can't.
Ridiculous. He can do nothing right now, because he is not President. He has no power. He has no control over our support of Ukraine. He has no chips in this game. What is he going to offer Putin or Zelensky?

Precisely. He can't end the war "in one day" now because he obviously has no skills in real persuasion (i.e., real "deal-making"), so he could never do it (even hypothetically) unless he had the power to threaten Zelensky.

You want the war to end on Putin's terms (and keep Trump out of jail)? Vote Trump!
Even more ridiculous. Trump kept Putin out of Ukraine for 4 years just by being President.

It's "ridiculous" to say Trump winning would keep him out of jail and do everything possible to end the war on Putin's Terms? How so?
It is ridiculous to say "You want....." when you have no idea of what I want. Know your own mind, before you try and tell others what their minds are thinking.

What I'm saying is IF (big "IF") you vote for Trump, you are implicitly wanting Trump to stay out of jail and end the war in Ukraine on Putin's terms.

What's "ridiculous" about that ?

The options here are to end the war, or keep it going to the last Ukrainian, on the terms of the corrupt political class (Lindsay Graham et al), the MIC, Blackrock etc.

As well, the longer the war drags, the more its ensuing settlement will be on Russia's terms, that is the reality of this conflict. Over 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died so far, its continuation is a tragedy based on lies.

This is a lie

The lie here, which you and the other neoliberal midbrows keep pushing, is to deny this reality based on a misguided ideological worldview:




Still waiting for you to speak to your frequently repeated lie about the number of killed Ukrainians


Your capacity to search for the truth beyond what's regurgitated in your crap sources on this issue and other important subjects (especially those related to international politics) is very limited.
dajo9
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

movielover said:



Trump says he "has a very good relationship with both Zelensky and Putin," and that he "will end the war in Ukraine in one day" (if elected again).

But if he has such a good relationship with Putin right now, why doesn't he end the war today? Why does he want to wait to first be elected to end the war?

Because he's not the president right now, he's just a dude from Queens who spends a lot of time in his Florida shack.

He hasn't articulated why being President would change his "very good" relationship with Putin, so why doesn't he leverage that good relationship now and prove he's as great of a deal-maker as he claims?

Edit: Answer is he won't do it because he's a liar and a fraud. If he could do it now, he would win the election and stay out of jail, which proves he can't.
Ridiculous. He can do nothing right now, because he is not President. He has no power. He has no control over our support of Ukraine. He has no chips in this game. What is he going to offer Putin or Zelensky?

Precisely. He can't end the war "in one day" now because he obviously has no skills in real persuasion (i.e., real "deal-making"), so he could never do it (even hypothetically) unless he had the power to threaten Zelensky.

You want the war to end on Putin's terms (and keep Trump out of jail)? Vote Trump!
Even more ridiculous. Trump kept Putin out of Ukraine for 4 years just by being President.

It's "ridiculous" to say Trump winning would keep him out of jail and do everything possible to end the war on Putin's Terms? How so?
It is ridiculous to say "You want....." when you have no idea of what I want. Know your own mind, before you try and tell others what their minds are thinking.

What I'm saying is IF (big "IF") you vote for Trump, you are implicitly wanting Trump to stay out of jail and end the war in Ukraine on Putin's terms.

What's "ridiculous" about that ?

The options here are to end the war, or keep it going to the last Ukrainian, on the terms of the corrupt political class (Lindsay Graham et al), the MIC, Blackrock etc.

As well, the longer the war drags, the more its ensuing settlement will be on Russia's terms, that is the reality of this conflict. Over 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died so far, its continuation is a tragedy based on lies.

This is a lie

The lie here, which you and the other neoliberal midbrows keep pushing, is to deny this reality based on a misguided ideological worldview:




Still waiting for you to speak to your frequently repeated lie about the number of killed Ukrainians


Your capacity to search for the truth beyond what's regurgitated in your crap sources on this issue and other important subjects (especially those related to international politics) is very limited.


You routinely lie about casualties and KIA. You regularly overstate Ukrainian KIA by giving the casualties number and you regularly understate Russian KIA by giving the 3rd party, independently identified number. You've been doing this lying for years now. You are just a Russian propagandist. SAD.
dimitrig
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Cal88 said:

movielover said:

[600K dead] If not more. Plus 100K amputees, 200-300K injured, and millions fled, never to return.

Contrary to the sleepwalking Progressives here, I am open and dig for new sources, new, objective ways to analyze what is going on in Ukraine.

About a year ago I started reading the Kiev Independent online. What jumped out to me in the article about the war were the ages of the soldiers. Vladimir, 46, Andriy, 58, Boryslav, 49. Where were the men in their 20s and 30s? Either dead or in the EU. Same for video clips, lots of grandfather's fighting.

Ukraine's demography before the war started was already catastrophic, now it's even beyond that. Ukraine had 50 million people in 1990, about 32 at the beginning of the decade. Today there are less than 20 million people living in the territories held by the Kiev government, and that population skews heavily towards an older demographic.

This is the population pyramid of Kiev before and after the war, th picture is significantly worse today, a lot of the young men that could leave have already left.:


If Ukraine is throwing all their adult males into the meat grinder, why have they lost more women than men? Or proportionally, more children than adults?


Ukraine has not conscripted men aged 18 to 25 yet. This is why the average age of a soldier is over 40, not because all the young men have been killed.

Apparently the "average soldier's age on both sides is over 40, military analysts say."

Link:

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-conscription-mobilization-251058a942a253f3eaec2c53373adf03



Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
dimitrig said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Cal88 said:

movielover said:

[600K dead] If not more. Plus 100K amputees, 200-300K injured, and millions fled, never to return.

Contrary to the sleepwalking Progressives here, I am open and dig for new sources, new, objective ways to analyze what is going on in Ukraine.

About a year ago I started reading the Kiev Independent online. What jumped out to me in the article about the war were the ages of the soldiers. Vladimir, 46, Andriy, 58, Boryslav, 49. Where were the men in their 20s and 30s? Either dead or in the EU. Same for video clips, lots of grandfather's fighting.

Ukraine's demography before the war started was already catastrophic, now it's even beyond that. Ukraine had 50 million people in 1990, about 32 at the beginning of the decade. Today there are less than 20 million people living in the territories held by the Kiev government, and that population skews heavily towards an older demographic.

This is the population pyramid of Kiev before and after the war, th picture is significantly worse today, a lot of the young men that could leave have already left.:


If Ukraine is throwing all their adult males into the meat grinder, why have they lost more women than men? Or proportionally, more children than adults?


Ukraine has not conscripted men aged 18 to 25 yet. This is why the average age of a soldier is over 40, not because all the young men have been killed.

Apparently the "average soldier's age on both sides is over 40, military analysts say."

Link:

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-conscription-mobilization-251058a942a253f3eaec2c53373adf03


There were a lot of younger soldiers in the Ukrainian army at the beginning of the war, most of them are now dead or injured.

And this is the reason why Ukraine has had the oldest army in the history of warfare:


Bear in mind that this pyramid is based on official figures from 2023, the real picture last year was worse, and today, much worse.

When Lindsay Graham was saying that the Ukraine war will be fought to the last Ukrainian, he meant it.
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

movielover said:



Trump says he "has a very good relationship with both Zelensky and Putin," and that he "will end the war in Ukraine in one day" (if elected again).

But if he has such a good relationship with Putin right now, why doesn't he end the war today? Why does he want to wait to first be elected to end the war?

Because he's not the president right now, he's just a dude from Queens who spends a lot of time in his Florida shack.

He hasn't articulated why being President would change his "very good" relationship with Putin, so why doesn't he leverage that good relationship now and prove he's as great of a deal-maker as he claims?

Edit: Answer is he won't do it because he's a liar and a fraud. If he could do it now, he would win the election and stay out of jail, which proves he can't.
Ridiculous. He can do nothing right now, because he is not President. He has no power. He has no control over our support of Ukraine. He has no chips in this game. What is he going to offer Putin or Zelensky?

Precisely. He can't end the war "in one day" now because he obviously has no skills in real persuasion (i.e., real "deal-making"), so he could never do it (even hypothetically) unless he had the power to threaten Zelensky.

You want the war to end on Putin's terms (and keep Trump out of jail)? Vote Trump!
Even more ridiculous. Trump kept Putin out of Ukraine for 4 years just by being President.

It's "ridiculous" to say Trump winning would keep him out of jail and do everything possible to end the war on Putin's Terms? How so?
It is ridiculous to say "You want....." when you have no idea of what I want. Know your own mind, before you try and tell others what their minds are thinking.

What I'm saying is IF (big "IF") you vote for Trump, you are implicitly wanting Trump to stay out of jail and end the war in Ukraine on Putin's terms.

What's "ridiculous" about that ?

The options here are to end the war, or keep it going to the last Ukrainian, on the terms of the corrupt political class (Lindsay Graham et al), the MIC, Blackrock etc.

As well, the longer the war drags, the more its ensuing settlement will be on Russia's terms, that is the reality of this conflict. Over 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died so far, its continuation is a tragedy based on lies.

This is a lie

The lie here, which you and the other neoliberal midbrows keep pushing, is to deny this reality based on a misguided ideological worldview:




Still waiting for you to speak to your frequently repeated lie about the number of killed Ukrainians


Your capacity to search for the truth beyond what's regurgitated in your crap sources on this issue and other important subjects (especially those related to international politics) is very limited.


You routinely lie about casualties and KIA. You regularly overstate Ukrainian KIA by giving the casualties number and you regularly understate Russian KIA by giving the 3rd party, independently identified number. You've been doing this lying for years now. You are just a Russian propagandist. SAD.

If we don't like the truth, we shall label it Russian Propaganda.

As often mentioned, truth is the first casualty of war, but in the Ukraine war the level of self-delusion and gaslighting has been totally off the chart.

Does anyone not named "dajo" actually believe this crap from the BBC, Zelinsky or US officials?

"Ukraine war: Zelensky says 31,000 troops killed since Russia's full-scale invasion
25 February 2024
Kathryn Armstrong
BBC News

Volodymyr Zelensky says 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed during Russia's full-scale invasion.
The Ukrainian president said he would not give the number of wounded as that would help Russian military planning

Typically, Ukrainian officials do not make casualty figures public, and other estimates are much higher.

Mr Zelensky said on Sunday that he was providing an updated death toll in response to the inflated figures that Russia has quoted.

"31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died in this war. Not 300,000 or 150,000, or whatever Putin and his lying circle are saying. But each of these losses is a great loss for us."

It is rare for Ukraine to provide a military death toll, and other estimates suggest a much higher number.
US officials in August put the number of Ukrainian soldiers killed at 70,000 and as many as 120,000 injured."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68397525
tequila4kapp
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Isn't there already a Ukraine war thread?
dajo9
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Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

movielover said:



Trump says he "has a very good relationship with both Zelensky and Putin," and that he "will end the war in Ukraine in one day" (if elected again).

But if he has such a good relationship with Putin right now, why doesn't he end the war today? Why does he want to wait to first be elected to end the war?

Because he's not the president right now, he's just a dude from Queens who spends a lot of time in his Florida shack.

He hasn't articulated why being President would change his "very good" relationship with Putin, so why doesn't he leverage that good relationship now and prove he's as great of a deal-maker as he claims?

Edit: Answer is he won't do it because he's a liar and a fraud. If he could do it now, he would win the election and stay out of jail, which proves he can't.
Ridiculous. He can do nothing right now, because he is not President. He has no power. He has no control over our support of Ukraine. He has no chips in this game. What is he going to offer Putin or Zelensky?

Precisely. He can't end the war "in one day" now because he obviously has no skills in real persuasion (i.e., real "deal-making"), so he could never do it (even hypothetically) unless he had the power to threaten Zelensky.

You want the war to end on Putin's terms (and keep Trump out of jail)? Vote Trump!
Even more ridiculous. Trump kept Putin out of Ukraine for 4 years just by being President.

It's "ridiculous" to say Trump winning would keep him out of jail and do everything possible to end the war on Putin's Terms? How so?
It is ridiculous to say "You want....." when you have no idea of what I want. Know your own mind, before you try and tell others what their minds are thinking.

What I'm saying is IF (big "IF") you vote for Trump, you are implicitly wanting Trump to stay out of jail and end the war in Ukraine on Putin's terms.

What's "ridiculous" about that ?

The options here are to end the war, or keep it going to the last Ukrainian, on the terms of the corrupt political class (Lindsay Graham et al), the MIC, Blackrock etc.

As well, the longer the war drags, the more its ensuing settlement will be on Russia's terms, that is the reality of this conflict. Over 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died so far, its continuation is a tragedy based on lies.

This is a lie

The lie here, which you and the other neoliberal midbrows keep pushing, is to deny this reality based on a misguided ideological worldview:




Still waiting for you to speak to your frequently repeated lie about the number of killed Ukrainians


Your capacity to search for the truth beyond what's regurgitated in your crap sources on this issue and other important subjects (especially those related to international politics) is very limited.


You routinely lie about casualties and KIA. You regularly overstate Ukrainian KIA by giving the casualties number and you regularly understate Russian KIA by giving the 3rd party, independently identified number. You've been doing this lying for years now. You are just a Russian propagandist. SAD.

If we don't like the truth, we shall label it Russian Propaganda.

As often mentioned, truth is the first casualty of war, but in the Ukraine war the level of self-delusion and gaslighting has been totally off the chart.

Does anyone not named "dajo" actually believe this crap from the BBC, Zelinsky or US officials?

"Ukraine war: Zelensky says 31,000 troops killed since Russia's full-scale invasion
25 February 2024
Kathryn Armstrong
BBC News

Volodymyr Zelensky says 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed during Russia's full-scale invasion.
The Ukrainian president said he would not give the number of wounded as that would help Russian military planning

Typically, Ukrainian officials do not make casualty figures public, and other estimates are much higher.

Mr Zelensky said on Sunday that he was providing an updated death toll in response to the inflated figures that Russia has quoted.

"31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died in this war. Not 300,000 or 150,000, or whatever Putin and his lying circle are saying. But each of these losses is a great loss for us."

It is rare for Ukraine to provide a military death toll, and other estimates suggest a much higher number.
US officials in August put the number of Ukrainian soldiers killed at 70,000 and as many as 120,000 injured."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68397525


You have still not addressed your lie of claiming over 600k Ukrainian soldiers have died
Eastern Oregon Bear
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dimitrig said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Cal88 said:

movielover said:

[600K dead] If not more. Plus 100K amputees, 200-300K injured, and millions fled, never to return.

Contrary to the sleepwalking Progressives here, I am open and dig for new sources, new, objective ways to analyze what is going on in Ukraine.

About a year ago I started reading the Kiev Independent online. What jumped out to me in the article about the war were the ages of the soldiers. Vladimir, 46, Andriy, 58, Boryslav, 49. Where were the men in their 20s and 30s? Either dead or in the EU. Same for video clips, lots of grandfather's fighting.

Ukraine's demography before the war started was already catastrophic, now it's even beyond that. Ukraine had 50 million people in 1990, about 32 at the beginning of the decade. Today there are less than 20 million people living in the territories held by the Kiev government, and that population skews heavily towards an older demographic.

This is the population pyramid of Kiev before and after the war, th picture is significantly worse today, a lot of the young men that could leave have already left.:


If Ukraine is throwing all their adult males into the meat grinder, why have they lost more women than men? Or proportionally, more children than adults?


Ukraine has not conscripted men aged 18 to 25 yet. This is why the average age of a soldier is over 40, not because all the young men have been killed.

Apparently the "average soldier's age on both sides is over 40, military analysts say."

Link:

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-conscription-mobilization-251058a942a253f3eaec2c53373adf03

Despite Cal88's handwaving, the pyramid still doesn't show much of a decrease in the over 40 male population. This would argue that the military casualties aren't as high as he keeps claiming. Ukraine appears to have lost 3 times as many over 40 women as over 40 men.
Cal88
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

dimitrig said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Cal88 said:

movielover said:

[600K dead] If not more. Plus 100K amputees, 200-300K injured, and millions fled, never to return.

Contrary to the sleepwalking Progressives here, I am open and dig for new sources, new, objective ways to analyze what is going on in Ukraine.

About a year ago I started reading the Kiev Independent online. What jumped out to me in the article about the war were the ages of the soldiers. Vladimir, 46, Andriy, 58, Boryslav, 49. Where were the men in their 20s and 30s? Either dead or in the EU. Same for video clips, lots of grandfather's fighting.

Ukraine's demography before the war started was already catastrophic, now it's even beyond that. Ukraine had 50 million people in 1990, about 32 at the beginning of the decade. Today there are less than 20 million people living in the territories held by the Kiev government, and that population skews heavily towards an older demographic.

This is the population pyramid of Kiev before and after the war, th picture is significantly worse today, a lot of the young men that could leave have already left.:


If Ukraine is throwing all their adult males into the meat grinder, why have they lost more women than men? Or proportionally, more children than adults?


Ukraine has not conscripted men aged 18 to 25 yet. This is why the average age of a soldier is over 40, not because all the young men have been killed.

Apparently the "average soldier's age on both sides is over 40, military analysts say."

Link:

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-conscription-mobilization-251058a942a253f3eaec2c53373adf03

Despite Cal88's handwaving, the pyramid still doesn't show much of a decrease in the over 40 male population. This would argue that the military casualties aren't as high as he keeps claiming. Ukraine appears to have lost 3 times as many over 40 women as over 40 men.

The demographic pyramid posted above reflects the official Ukrainian figures, which grossly overestimate their population size by counting expats and by undercounting their death toll, although the number of expats is far greater than their deaths.

My point about posting the pyramid is to show that the proportion of young people in Ukraine is incredibly small. This is due to the economic and social collapse of the 1990s, from which Ukraine never recovered, while Russia and the rest of eastern Europe did far better. That collapse resulted in mass emigration of younger and middle-aged people, and in those people having fewer children in the 90s and 00s, resulting in depressed numbers of young Ukrainians today.

Ukraine today has around 20 million people at the most, the official figure of 38 million overstates their population by a factor of 2x.
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

movielover said:



Trump says he "has a very good relationship with both Zelensky and Putin," and that he "will end the war in Ukraine in one day" (if elected again).

But if he has such a good relationship with Putin right now, why doesn't he end the war today? Why does he want to wait to first be elected to end the war?

Because he's not the president right now, he's just a dude from Queens who spends a lot of time in his Florida shack.

He hasn't articulated why being President would change his "very good" relationship with Putin, so why doesn't he leverage that good relationship now and prove he's as great of a deal-maker as he claims?

Edit: Answer is he won't do it because he's a liar and a fraud. If he could do it now, he would win the election and stay out of jail, which proves he can't.
Ridiculous. He can do nothing right now, because he is not President. He has no power. He has no control over our support of Ukraine. He has no chips in this game. What is he going to offer Putin or Zelensky?

Precisely. He can't end the war "in one day" now because he obviously has no skills in real persuasion (i.e., real "deal-making"), so he could never do it (even hypothetically) unless he had the power to threaten Zelensky.

You want the war to end on Putin's terms (and keep Trump out of jail)? Vote Trump!
Even more ridiculous. Trump kept Putin out of Ukraine for 4 years just by being President.

It's "ridiculous" to say Trump winning would keep him out of jail and do everything possible to end the war on Putin's Terms? How so?
It is ridiculous to say "You want....." when you have no idea of what I want. Know your own mind, before you try and tell others what their minds are thinking.

What I'm saying is IF (big "IF") you vote for Trump, you are implicitly wanting Trump to stay out of jail and end the war in Ukraine on Putin's terms.

What's "ridiculous" about that ?

The options here are to end the war, or keep it going to the last Ukrainian, on the terms of the corrupt political class (Lindsay Graham et al), the MIC, Blackrock etc.

As well, the longer the war drags, the more its ensuing settlement will be on Russia's terms, that is the reality of this conflict. Over 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died so far, its continuation is a tragedy based on lies.

This is a lie

The lie here, which you and the other neoliberal midbrows keep pushing, is to deny this reality based on a misguided ideological worldview:




Still waiting for you to speak to your frequently repeated lie about the number of killed Ukrainians


Your capacity to search for the truth beyond what's regurgitated in your crap sources on this issue and other important subjects (especially those related to international politics) is very limited.


You routinely lie about casualties and KIA. You regularly overstate Ukrainian KIA by giving the casualties number and you regularly understate Russian KIA by giving the 3rd party, independently identified number. You've been doing this lying for years now. You are just a Russian propagandist. SAD.

If we don't like the truth, we shall label it Russian Propaganda.

As often mentioned, truth is the first casualty of war, but in the Ukraine war the level of self-delusion and gaslighting has been totally off the chart.

Does anyone not named "dajo" actually believe this crap from the BBC, Zelinsky or US officials?

"Ukraine war: Zelensky says 31,000 troops killed since Russia's full-scale invasion
25 February 2024
Kathryn Armstrong
BBC News

Volodymyr Zelensky says 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed during Russia's full-scale invasion.
The Ukrainian president said he would not give the number of wounded as that would help Russian military planning

Typically, Ukrainian officials do not make casualty figures public, and other estimates are much higher.

Mr Zelensky said on Sunday that he was providing an updated death toll in response to the inflated figures that Russia has quoted.

"31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died in this war. Not 300,000 or 150,000, or whatever Putin and his lying circle are saying. But each of these losses is a great loss for us."

It is rare for Ukraine to provide a military death toll, and other estimates suggest a much higher number.
US officials in August put the number of Ukrainian soldiers killed at 70,000 and as many as 120,000 injured."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68397525


You have still not addressed your lie of claiming over 600k Ukrainian soldiers have died

In due time, the true extent of the carnage will be revealed, even the most dense segment of which you are a fine representative will have to acknowledge it.
dajo9
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Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

SFCityBear said:

OsoDorado said:

Cal88 said:

OsoDorado said:

movielover said:



Trump says he "has a very good relationship with both Zelensky and Putin," and that he "will end the war in Ukraine in one day" (if elected again).

But if he has such a good relationship with Putin right now, why doesn't he end the war today? Why does he want to wait to first be elected to end the war?

Because he's not the president right now, he's just a dude from Queens who spends a lot of time in his Florida shack.

He hasn't articulated why being President would change his "very good" relationship with Putin, so why doesn't he leverage that good relationship now and prove he's as great of a deal-maker as he claims?

Edit: Answer is he won't do it because he's a liar and a fraud. If he could do it now, he would win the election and stay out of jail, which proves he can't.
Ridiculous. He can do nothing right now, because he is not President. He has no power. He has no control over our support of Ukraine. He has no chips in this game. What is he going to offer Putin or Zelensky?

Precisely. He can't end the war "in one day" now because he obviously has no skills in real persuasion (i.e., real "deal-making"), so he could never do it (even hypothetically) unless he had the power to threaten Zelensky.

You want the war to end on Putin's terms (and keep Trump out of jail)? Vote Trump!
Even more ridiculous. Trump kept Putin out of Ukraine for 4 years just by being President.

It's "ridiculous" to say Trump winning would keep him out of jail and do everything possible to end the war on Putin's Terms? How so?
It is ridiculous to say "You want....." when you have no idea of what I want. Know your own mind, before you try and tell others what their minds are thinking.

What I'm saying is IF (big "IF") you vote for Trump, you are implicitly wanting Trump to stay out of jail and end the war in Ukraine on Putin's terms.

What's "ridiculous" about that ?

The options here are to end the war, or keep it going to the last Ukrainian, on the terms of the corrupt political class (Lindsay Graham et al), the MIC, Blackrock etc.

As well, the longer the war drags, the more its ensuing settlement will be on Russia's terms, that is the reality of this conflict. Over 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died so far, its continuation is a tragedy based on lies.

This is a lie

The lie here, which you and the other neoliberal midbrows keep pushing, is to deny this reality based on a misguided ideological worldview:




Still waiting for you to speak to your frequently repeated lie about the number of killed Ukrainians


Your capacity to search for the truth beyond what's regurgitated in your crap sources on this issue and other important subjects (especially those related to international politics) is very limited.


You routinely lie about casualties and KIA. You regularly overstate Ukrainian KIA by giving the casualties number and you regularly understate Russian KIA by giving the 3rd party, independently identified number. You've been doing this lying for years now. You are just a Russian propagandist. SAD.

If we don't like the truth, we shall label it Russian Propaganda.

As often mentioned, truth is the first casualty of war, but in the Ukraine war the level of self-delusion and gaslighting has been totally off the chart.

Does anyone not named "dajo" actually believe this crap from the BBC, Zelinsky or US officials?

"Ukraine war: Zelensky says 31,000 troops killed since Russia's full-scale invasion
25 February 2024
Kathryn Armstrong
BBC News

Volodymyr Zelensky says 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed during Russia's full-scale invasion.
The Ukrainian president said he would not give the number of wounded as that would help Russian military planning

Typically, Ukrainian officials do not make casualty figures public, and other estimates are much higher.

Mr Zelensky said on Sunday that he was providing an updated death toll in response to the inflated figures that Russia has quoted.

"31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died in this war. Not 300,000 or 150,000, or whatever Putin and his lying circle are saying. But each of these losses is a great loss for us."

It is rare for Ukraine to provide a military death toll, and other estimates suggest a much higher number.
US officials in August put the number of Ukrainian soldiers killed at 70,000 and as many as 120,000 injured."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68397525


You have still not addressed your lie of claiming over 600k Ukrainian soldiers have died

In due time, the true extent of the carnage will be revealed, even the most dense segment of which you are a fine representative will have to acknowledge it.


Liar backed into a corner
Cal88
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Ret@rd doubling down.
blungld
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Cal88 said:

In due time, the true extent of the carnage will be revealed, even the most dense segment of which you are a fine representative will have to acknowledge it.
So essentially you admit that you and no one else knows for certain at this point. You are speculating or trusting a source but YOU DO NOT KNOW. You BELIEVE you will be proven correct.

It might be more honest and productive if when you contribute you make clear where the line between your speculation, opinion, and facts lie. You present things as if you are more informed than everyone else when the truth is you are more informed on your SOURCES than anyone else. No one comes to this thread to be lectured by a stubborn blowhard--but it might be interesting if it was a sincere exchange where you can admit mistakes and be open to other's opinions and posting from a perspective of equal intellectual footing rather than your performative superiority.
dajo9
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blungld said:

Cal88 said:

In due time, the true extent of the carnage will be revealed, even the most dense segment of which you are a fine representative will have to acknowledge it.
So essentially you admit that you and no one else knows for certain at this point. You are speculating or trusting a source but YOU DO NOT KNOW. You BELIEVE you will be proven correct.

It might be more honest and productive if when you contribute you make clear where the line between your speculation, opinion, and facts lie. You present things as if you are more informed than everyone else when the truth is you are more informed on your SOURCES than anyone else. No one comes to this thread to be lectured by a stubborn blowhard--but it might be interesting if it was a sincere exchange where you can admit mistakes and be open to other's opinions and posting from a perspective of equal intellectual footing rather than your performative superiority.


It's not speculation. It is a lie to use a casualty number as a KIA number over and over again.
movielover
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Ukraine is fighting w grandfather's bc the men in their 20s and 30s are gaming.
Cal88
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blungld said:

Cal88 said:

In due time, the true extent of the carnage will be revealed, even the most dense segment of which you are a fine representative will have to acknowledge it.
So essentially you admit that you and no one else knows for certain at this point. You are speculating or trusting a source but YOU DO NOT KNOW. You BELIEVE you will be proven correct.

It might be more honest and productive if when you contribute you make clear where the line between your speculation, opinion, and facts lie. You present things as if you are more informed than everyone else when the truth is you are more informed on your SOURCES than anyone else. No one comes to this thread to be lectured by a stubborn blowhard--but it might be interesting if it was a sincere exchange where you can admit mistakes and be open to other's opinions and posting from a perspective of equal intellectual footing rather than your performative superiority.


There are several serious sources pointing to the number of Ukraine KIAs being well above half a million at this point, including:

-Colonel Macgregor, who has close friend within NATO and US military leadership who are privy to unpublished intel, he was given an estimate of 600.000 earlier this Summer:


-EU leader and former German Minister of Defense Ursula von der Leyen, who stated back in November 2022 that Ukraine had lost more than 100,000 soldiers, in what was until then, a less bloody phase of the war than the ensuing battles of Bakhmut, Avdeevka, failed southern offensive etc, when Ukraine started running out of ammunition and the Russians increased their numbers.


-Several Ukrainian sources revealed losses in that range, I have already posted them on the Ukraine thread, including this one:



My "performative superiority" is based on having been right on all important aspects of the Ukraine war, which is one of the most heavily propagandized conflicts in the modern era.


movielover
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movielover
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movielover
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John Kerry (aka Lurch): the First Amendment is a problem.

82gradDLSdad
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movielover said:

John Kerry (aka Lurch): the First Amendment is a problem.




Kerry is right that social media presents challenges. But like almost all old politicians his thoughts on mitigating that issue are weak. He conveniently would ignore our trusted news sources back in the day who would take government officials words for the truth.

"J. Edgar Hoover said in a memo two days after John F. Kennedy's assassination that the public must be led to believe that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone."

Two days!!!! What a thorough investigation.
MinotStateBeav
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AI is becoming too good.



edit: he's already got a Harry Potter version
Cal88
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bearister
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Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
82gradDLSdad
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bearister said:




By sheer luck (and a FB reply I made to one of her posts) I became message buddies with the head of the Bart Board. She told me privately, but has since been more public about this (and she's retiring soon), that the board, all Dems except her, rejected most of her ideas to reduce cost and up security and cleanliness. My recent Bart experience is that there are still many fare evaders (in plain sight) and multiple homeless/crazy people on almost each train. She knows that more and stricter Bart security is needed. My last Bart ride I thought a guy, face fully covered on a warm day, was going to come back into the car I was on and confront me. I had made the mistake of looking at him. She also knows that the union, protecting, among other things, drivers' jobs is a big cost lowering road block. It doesn't take much or any skill to do a job that could be replaced by AI right now.
Cal88
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