Placer.Anarchistbear said:
Calaveras County where you live, right Tom? Big Trump county. Racists and xenophobic central. How are you surviving- are there swatstikas on the " I'm with her" lawn signs?
For the space aliens learning English by reading Off Topic, this is what the man Ducky23 means by "wattage":ducky23 said:
It's still early, but doesn't look like warren is going to be able to recover from the Native American fiasco. Klobuchar lacks wattage (and is probably too moderate in this day and age). Booker is too early to tell.
ducky23 said:
While Amy klobuchar is busy running for "king beyond the wall", looks like Harris is still the current front runner of those who have declared.
It's still early, but doesn't look like warren is going to be able to recover from the Native American fiasco. Klobuchar lacks wattage (and is probably too moderate in this day and age). Booker is too early to tell.
Let's see what the three B's do in the up coming months (Biden, Beto, Bernie)
I still think Harris is best situated to put together the varying groups you need (minorities, progressives, women, youth) to build a strong democratic coalition, but Beto is still a wildcard.
oski003 said:
Is the Willie Brown scandal going to hinder KMs chances?
It's such a stupid thing to care about in either direction.ducky23 said:
It's still early, but doesn't look like warren is going to be able to recover from the Native American fiasco.
Unit2Sucks said:oski003 said:
Is the Willie Brown scandal going to hinder KMs chances?
Is that the one where she colluded with Russians, surrounded herself with felons, went bankrupt 6 times, paid off multiple porn stars and got caught lying about it, advocated the death penalty for 5 innocent black kids, ran a fraudulent charitable foundation, ran a fraudulent university, hired a bunch of undocumented workers, admitted to doing business with mobsters, got sued by the DOJ for prejudice against black people as a landlord, made up the birther conspiracy or was it like something really bad like having consensual relations with an adult?
So if a female politician has an affair with a married man, that's a scandal, but if the president has an affair with a porn star and paid her off to keep her quiet about it, that's not a scandal.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:oski003 said:
Is the Willie Brown scandal going to hinder KMs chances?
Is that the one where she colluded with Russians, surrounded herself with felons, went bankrupt 6 times, paid off multiple porn stars and got caught lying about it, advocated the death penalty for 5 innocent black kids, ran a fraudulent charitable foundation, ran a fraudulent university, hired a bunch of undocumented workers, admitted to doing business with mobsters, got sued by the DOJ for prejudice against black people as a landlord, made up the birther conspiracy or was it like something really bad like having consensual relations with an adult?
As far as I know, the Willie Brown Kamala Harris scandal has nothing to do with birthers and porn stars.
oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:oski003 said:
Is the Willie Brown scandal going to hinder KMs chances?
Is that the one where she colluded with Russians, surrounded herself with felons, went bankrupt 6 times, paid off multiple porn stars and got caught lying about it, advocated the death penalty for 5 innocent black kids, ran a fraudulent charitable foundation, ran a fraudulent university, hired a bunch of undocumented workers, admitted to doing business with mobsters, got sued by the DOJ for prejudice against black people as a landlord, made up the birther conspiracy or was it like something really bad like having consensual relations with an adult?
As far as I know, the Willie Brown Kamala Harris scandal has nothing to do with birthers and porn stars.
Ditto on this. Brown and his wife had been separated amicably since 1981 [Source: NYT]. Or is the scandal that she was appointed to the California Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board and the Medical Assistance Commission by Brown in 1994, presumably overlapping with a period when they were in a relationship. Which part is the scandal? If you're calling either of these scandals, then the answer to your question is nobody cares. Would either of these matters cause you not to vote for someone?ducky23 said:
Can you explain why it's a "scandal"
He can't, because the point isn't to actually learn anything about Kamala Harris, it's to put this idea into the conversation so that people are all talking about it. Doesn't matter if it's discredited or disproven, it's out there now. Now one of the leading liberal candidates is subtly undermined, regardless of truth.ducky23 said:
Can you explain why it's a "scandal"
False equivalence alert!oski003 said:
When they met, she was 29 and he was 60. Anyway, it's more of a glass houses issue. I guess nobody gets to throw stones. Only rape and racism accusations based on high school or college events are fair game.
sycasey said:False equivalence alert!oski003 said:
When they met, she was 29 and he was 60. Anyway, it's more of a glass houses issue. I guess nobody gets to throw stones. Only rape and racism accusations based on high school or college events are fair game.
So you didn't vote for Trump then because of your deep rooted moral values, huh?oski003 said:
Willie Brown:
Yes, we dated. It was more than 20 years ago. Yes, I may have influenced her career by appointing her to two state commissions when I was Assembly speaker.
And I certainly helped with her first race for district attorney in San Francisco. I have also helped the careers of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Gov. Gavin Newsom, Sen. Dianne Feinstein and a host of other politicians
...
When they met, she was 29 and he was 60. Anyway, it's more of a glass houses issue. I guess nobody gets to throw stones.
Can you see that what you are doing is trying to discredit or cause controversy or make false equivalence, rather than actually try and figure out the character of the woman? This is why the us vs them is so bad right now, because ideas like this are floated out there not out of real interest or trying to find a truth or because you really want information, the question itself is a statement of belief by you. You are not really asking a question. Your mind is made up and the question is only an intention to score points for your side.oski003 said:
Willie Brown:
Yes, we dated. It was more than 20 years ago. Yes, I may have influenced her career by appointing her to two state commissions when I was Assembly speaker.
And I certainly helped with her first race for district attorney in San Francisco. I have also helped the careers of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Gov. Gavin Newsom, Sen. Dianne Feinstein and a host of other politicians
...
When they met, she was 29 and he was 60. Anyway, it's more of a glass houses issue. I guess nobody gets to throw stones.
"The card says moops."blungld said:
Can you see that what you are doing is trying to discredit or cause controversy or make false equivalence, rather than actually try and figure out the character of the woman? This is why the us vs them is so bad right now, because ideas like this are floated out there not out of real interest or trying to find a truth or because you really want information, the question itself is a statement of belief by you. You are not really asking a question. Your mind is made up and the question is only an intention to score points for your side.
Yesterday I posted a 20 minute video of Ocasio-Cortez being interviewed on MSNBC and put forth the controversial opinion that whether you agree with or disagree with her, she's not stupid. The good part of that is now I know for sure that at least some of my "friend" list actually reads what I write. At least later on when someone uncovers me wearing Nazi periphernalia in ninth grade, I'll know someone out there will care when I defend myself on social media.blungld said:Can you see that what you are doing is trying to discredit or cause controversy or make false equivalence, rather than actually try and figure out the character of the woman? This is why the us vs them is so bad right now, because ideas like this are floated out there not out of real interest or trying to find a truth or because you really want information, the question itself is a statement of belief by you. You are not really asking a question. Your mind is made up and the question is only an intention to score points for your side.oski003 said:
Willie Brown:
Yes, we dated. It was more than 20 years ago. Yes, I may have influenced her career by appointing her to two state commissions when I was Assembly speaker.
And I certainly helped with her first race for district attorney in San Francisco. I have also helped the careers of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Gov. Gavin Newsom, Sen. Dianne Feinstein and a host of other politicians
...
When they met, she was 29 and he was 60. Anyway, it's more of a glass houses issue. I guess nobody gets to throw stones.
I know the temptation is to defend your own, and to see the other side as doing the same thing (If the situation were reversed it would be hard for me to concede this too), but it is not a case that "both sides do it." It is the right who have engaged in a type of rhetoric and debate that has become more and more extreme over the last 20 years that is causing the rift. It is not both sides fault.
Yes, liberals make mistakes and have strong opinions and say dumb things and have faults and can learn from the right. But Liberals are entering into discussions trying to figure out the truth and to make good arguments to convince others to agree with them. Even if you disagree with their positions, the effort is reasonable and fair and honestly attempted.
The FOX News and Alex Jones Republicans are not interested in any kind of fair or reasoned debate. They don't even have a principle or belief to argue for. They are just arguing to win the argument or make the Liberal wrong. That is the root of the divisiveness. When one side cares not about the truth or making the best decision anymore, they just want to be on the side that wins, the country as a whole loses and we spend all this energy arguing about things that actually do not matter or that no one really cares about or is not the real problem. We are debating symbols when there is real crisis we should be talking about honestly to make all of our lives better. That's what politics is for. Not winning, just making our lives a little better.
The Right needs to start caring about the real every day life experience and the 70 years we each get on the planet, and not Pyrrhic victory about defeating these symbolic, often nonexistent, enemies. We can't make you see how you are doing this, you have to have the guts to admit that you are in the wrong, not on the issues necessarily, but how you are arguing and not attempting to coexist with others.
Wait, is this for real?oski003 said:
Willie Brown:
Yes, we dated. It was more than 20 years ago. Yes, I may have influenced her career by appointing her to two state commissions when I was Assembly speaker.
And I certainly helped with her first race for district attorney in San Francisco. I have also helped the careers of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Gov. Gavin Newsom, Sen. Dianne Feinstein and a host of other politicians
...
When they met, she was 29 and he was 60. Anyway, it's more of a glass houses issue. I guess nobody gets to throw stones.
That's professor Donald Harris, the Jamaican father of Democratic presidential hopeful Kamala Harris, reportedly sounding off this week in a statement to "Jamaica global online" about his daughter's interview on the "New York breakfast club" radio show.Quote:
'My dear departed grandmothers... as well as my deceased parents, must be turning in their grave right now to see their family's name, reputation and proud Jamaican identity being connected, in any way, jokingly or not, with the fraudulent stereotype of a pot-smoking joy seeker and in the pursuit of identity politics."
concordtom said:
Per the above, I'm done with KH. Hardly knew ya.
People pick presidents for dumb reasonssycasey said:concordtom said:
Per the above, I'm done with KH. Hardly knew ya.
Seriously? How does any of the above matter at all?
1. I've written here before about the lifelong addiction problems of my brother. I am very much opposed to the drug culture that exists in the US. When she joked that there is no way that she's against marijuana, I don't like that. Drugs took my brother away from me and life would have been so very different without that having been the case. It shaped so much pain and struggle in my family for decades. I think one needs to speak more intelligently about the drug culture than that quote. Of course, I'll listen to see what more she has to say, but that's a negative mark for now.sycasey said:concordtom said:
Per the above, I'm done with KH. Hardly knew ya.
Seriously? How does any of the above matter at all?
Tell me, what is dumb about the reasons I listed?Yogi Bear said:People pick presidents for dumb reasonssycasey said:concordtom said:
Per the above, I'm done with KH. Hardly knew ya.
Seriously? How does any of the above matter at all?
She was great in Fair Game!B.A. Bearacus said:For the space aliens learning English by reading Off Topic, this is what the man Ducky23 means by "wattage":ducky23 said:
It's still early, but doesn't look like warren is going to be able to recover from the Native American fiasco. Klobuchar lacks wattage (and is probably too moderate in this day and age). Booker is too early to tell.
(Naomi Watts)
Points, 2 - 4 seem reasonable enough to me, though I'm not impassioned enough about to have it be a major deciding factor. Regarding Point 1, and this is going off on a tangent a bit, but the DARE program, the scare tactics and the 'just say no' campaign in the war against drugs were a colossal failure of policy. I think as a society we need acknowledge people use some recreational drugs, and not banish or ostracize those that have in their past. Don't get me wrong, I don't want a President high on pot, but if they did it in their 20's, I don't think it should be an automatic dis qualifier.concordtom said:1. I've written here before about the lifelong addiction problems of my brother. I am very much opposed to the drug culture that exists in the US. When she joked that there is no way that she's against marijuana, I don't like that. Drugs took my brother away from me and life would have been so very different without that having been the case. It shaped so much pain and struggle in my family for decades. I think one needs to speak more intelligently about the drug culture than that quote. Of course, I'll listen to see what more she has to say, but that's a negative mark for now.sycasey said:concordtom said:
Per the above, I'm done with KH. Hardly knew ya.
Seriously? How does any of the above matter at all?
2. I do not respect that at age 29 she's going off with 60 year old Willie Brown. My step mom was 21 years younger than my dear step father, but they had known each other for 6 years before his wife died of cancer, and they formed a new life together at ages 57 and 36, married for 35 years and with child. A 29 year old who sleeps with a 60 year old, then receives appointments by him?.... seems like just using each other. Also, not a good look.
3. Her flippant comment about "let's just get past all of that" when discussing medical insurance for all.... I'd be more convinced if you showed me numbers about your proposal. Nobody has those numbers, they just talk about it in tomes. It's a huge industry, does anyone have a true handle on it? I don't think so. Being blas with your policy assertions without specific financial projections is irresponsible. How are the "progressives" going to pay for all they want to do: medical, climate, college, deficit, jobs, infrastructure, environmental regulations (green new deal type stuff), taxes, wealth inequality - all while maintaining a decent economy? Nobody has the answers, I know, and so I'm not expecting miracles here. But if you cannot speak about it with some realism, then I'm questioning you unfavorably. Klobuchar (for instance) expressed that sense of realism, and yet she did unequivocally say that day1 we rejoin the climate accords, so she's not just paying lip service. Sounds more grounded.
4. It's a crowded field, so I'm moving on. Sometimes you only get one chance to make a good first impression. Maybe she'll survive to later rounds and I'll get a chance to learn more about her.
