Straight Pride Parade

Cal Junkie
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When straight people are murdered for simply existing, then go ahead and organize a parade. Until then step off. Gays ARE victims ... of violence and intolerance by straights. Straights are not victims of anything other than being called out on their *****
BEARUPINDC
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QUESTION:

Percentage-wise, what would be the composition of a Straight Pride Parade?

To give you an idea, I'll start off with:

Guys from the Bachelor 5%
Black guys on the down-low 2%
Neo-Nazis 16%
White supremacists 16%
Pro wrestlers*** 50%
Gays who got through "the screening process" 11%

These are not mutually exclusive
***Replace Milo Yiannopoulos by Nature Boy Ric Flair and his daughter




Being a Cal fan: You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave
wifeisafurd
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BEARUPINDC said:

Anarchistbear said:

I'm going to Gay Pride because they'll be serving Cosmopolitans not some weenie straight people s$it

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/False-Report-of-Shooting-at-Capital-Pride-Parade-Triggers-Panic-511027152.html


You might think about wearing some heavy-duty armor. You won't be able to run very fast
with your drink, but....

So, we have neo-fascists organizing a "parade" and drag queens really running wild





As an aside, Barry McGuire is a fascinating figure. He worked with the New Christy Minstrels and Mamas & Papas and was a bit counter-culture, became a born again Christian and is credited as being the pioneer of the contemporary Christian movement, eventually moved to New Zealand for a decade to work for World Vision, returned in the '90s to do a lot work with retro bands (like the New Mamas and Papas, the Byrds, etc.), and then moved to Fresno to play country music. He did a new 'Eve" in 2012 with contemporary problems such as pollution.


GBear4Life
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sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:


And if these same regressives say an individual's experience is of upmost importance, and can approve of race and gender being on a spectrum, why are the purported experiences of victimization of the heteros dismissed out of hand?
They're being dismissed because they don't exist. This is like saying, "When that guy claimed it snowed in Berkeley yesterday, why was his claim dismissed out of hand?" Because I was there and have eyes and could plainly see that it didn't happen. Heterosexuals have never been victimized for their sexual orientation (they may be for other reasons, but not for that).

If you can provide evidence of heterosexuals being discriminated against or oppressed for being heterosexual, then I will reconsider my position. In the absence of such, I will stick to my current position that a Straight Pride Parade is stupid and pointless.
Lol i cited a post from the Chron about just that.

Nor can you say that these heteros, in their personal experience, haven't been treated unfairly. Hell, this thread as a microcosm is just that: straights are being shunned from doing exactly what other groups are "allowed"
GBear4Life
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Cal Junkie said:

When straight people are murdered for simply existing, then go ahead and organize a parade. Until then step off. Gays ARE victims ... of violence and intolerance by straights. Straights are not victims of anything other than being called out on their *****
You are typifying precisely what I and many others have and are objecting to: that victim status (who determines this?) confers privilege, or lack thereof.

You are playing regressive Identity politics. It won't win in the long run. It has cost you (all of us, really) in the short run as well
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:


And if these same regressives say an individual's experience is of upmost importance, and can approve of race and gender being on a spectrum, why are the purported experiences of victimization of the heteros dismissed out of hand?
They're being dismissed because they don't exist. This is like saying, "When that guy claimed it snowed in Berkeley yesterday, why was his claim dismissed out of hand?" Because I was there and have eyes and could plainly see that it didn't happen. Heterosexuals have never been victimized for their sexual orientation (they may be for other reasons, but not for that).

If you can provide evidence of heterosexuals being discriminated against or oppressed for being heterosexual, then I will reconsider my position. In the absence of such, I will stick to my current position that a Straight Pride Parade is stupid and pointless.
Lol i cited a post from the Chron about just that.

Nor can you say that these heteros, in their personal experience, haven't been treated unfairly. Hell, this thread as a microcosm is just that: straights are being shunned from doing exactly what other groups are "allowed"

Were straight people actually prevented from moving into a particular neighborhood because they were straight? Were there laws passed? Were they physically threatened?

If not, then it's not the same thing.
BEARUPINDC
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wifeisafurd said:

BEARUPINDC said:

Anarchistbear said:

I'm going to Gay Pride because they'll be serving Cosmopolitans not some weenie straight people s$it

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/False-Report-of-Shooting-at-Capital-Pride-Parade-Triggers-Panic-511027152.html


You might think about wearing some heavy-duty armor. You won't be able to run very fast
with your drink, but....

So, we have neo-fascists organizing a "parade" and drag queens really running wild





As an aside, Barry McGuire is a fascinating figure. He worked with the New Christy Minstrels and Mamas & Papas and was a bit counter-culture, became a born again Christian and is credited as being the pioneer of the contemporary Christian movement, eventually moved to New Zealand for a decade to work for World Vision, returned in the '90s to do a lot work with retro bands (like the New Mamas and Papas, the Byrds, etc.), and then moved to Fresno to play country music. He did a new 'Eve" in 2012 with contemporary problems such as pollution.



Being a Cal fan: You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave
GBear4Life
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sycasey said:




Were straight people actually prevented from moving into a particular neighborhood because they were straight? Were there laws passed? Were they physically threatened?

If not, then it's not the same thing.
stop with the strawmen. Nobody said overall it's the same. You have nothing other than the crutch of victimhood conferring cultural acceptance of celebrating sexuality.

Homosexuals created a "coalition" to address the "excessive" amount of heterosexuals moving into the castro. I mean, you can't make this sh*t up it's so absurd. Imagine a straight guy knowing he is wanted out of the neighborhood he freely moved into on the basis of his sexual orientation. Who cares tho amiright!!!! He's not a traditional victim!!!

My future ex-wife, the blowhard she tends to be, accidentally happens to be spot on on this issues.

Every post you make about this further typifies my original post's criticism. We'll never agree, but that's Ok.
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:




Were straight people actually prevented from moving into a particular neighborhood because they were straight? Were there laws passed? Were they physically threatened?

If not, then it's not the same thing.
stop with the strawmen. Nobody said overall it's the same. You have nothing other than the crutch of victimhood conferring cultural acceptance of celebrating sexuality.

Homosexuals created a "coalition" to address the "excessive" amount of heterosexuals moving into the castro. I mean, you can't make this sh*t up it's so absurd. Imagine a straight guy knowing he is wanted out of the neighborhood he freely moved into on the basis of his sexual orientation. Who cares tho amiright!!!! He's not a traditional victim!!!

My future ex-wife, the blowhard she tends to be, accidentally happens to be spot on on this issues.

Every post you make about this further typifies my original post's criticism. We'll never agree, but that's Ok.

I'm laying out the standards by which I would judge "victimhood" for a particular group. They involve actually being blocked for access to things because of being part of that group. People complaining about s*** doesn't really count for me, unless you can demonstrate a systemic lack of access as a result of it.

If you ain't got that, I'd say you're just being a whiny snowflake.
Cal Junkie
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GBear4Life said:

Cal Junkie said:

When straight people are murdered for simply existing, then go ahead and organize a parade. Until then step off. Gays ARE victims ... of violence and intolerance by straights. Straights are not victims of anything other than being called out on their *****
You are typifying precisely what I and many others have and are objecting to: that victim status (who determines this?) confers privilege, or lack thereof.

You are playing regressive Identity politics. It won't win in the long run. It has cost you (all of us, really) in the short run as well
You're typing word salad but that does not nullify my point in any way. I determine that if gays are being beaten up and oppressed they are legitimate victims. If you feel otherwise or think this isn't a legitimate beef then you tacitly endorse this behavior. How are white straights victims? By having their feet held to the fire by those with a moral compass? Oh the humanity! Have a parade I guess, knock yourselves out.
GBear4Life
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The straight pride triggering of Leftist hypocrisy is playing out with every post.

Nobody is whining about a small faction of heteros filing for a permit to celebrate their sexuality -- except Leftists playing the identity politics and victimhood game. Let everybody celebrate their own traits they find worth celebrating. Many ethnic prides have little to do with the notion of being historical victims -- they are simply proud of their race. And liberals will let anybody do this -- except "whites".

To summarize: many of you believe that historical victimization is the justification to celebrate one's immutable characteristics, and the absence of that leaves you without justification. This is bizarre, an antithetical to equality, but it aligns with the ideology that victimization grants privilege -- the 'right' to celebrate one's identity.

As quoted in previous posts, the straight pride statements had nothing to do with victimhood, but merely wanting the same rights and treatment as gays to celebrate their own sexuality (it's weird to me too). Who wouldn't be for that, especially liberals?

Oh wait...
wifeisafurd
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GBear4Life said:

The straight pride triggering of Leftist hypocrisy is playing out with every post.

Nobody is whining about a small faction of heteros filing for a permit to celebrate their sexuality -- except Leftists playing the identity politics and victimhood game. Let everybody celebrate their own traits they find worth celebrating. Many ethnic prides have little to do with the notion of being historical victims -- they are simply proud of their race. And liberals will let anybody do this -- except "whites".

To summarize: many of you believe that historical victimization is the justification to celebrate one's immutable characteristics, and the absence of that leaves you without justification. This is bizarre, an antithetical to equality, but it aligns with the ideology that victimization grants privilege -- the 'right' to celebrate one's identity.

As quoted in previous posts, the straight pride statements had nothing to do with victimhood, but merely wanting the same rights and treatment as gays to celebrate their own sexuality (it's weird to me too). Who wouldn't be for that, especially liberals?

Oh wait...
I think people from many political perspectives simply don't get the point of a straight pride parade. If that is whining, so be it. Maybe it is a Boston thing to get offended.

Here is another one I thought was an Onion article about parades:

Harvard: July 4th Parades Are Right-Wing https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/06/30/harvard-july-4th-parades-are-right-wing?src=usn_tw

Having marched in a July 4 parade in West Los Angles (not a GOP stronghold) with my dog (our dog group marches every July 4th), where the Honorable Maxie Waters was the parade marshall, I can tell Harvard it really isn't about right wing politics, but having fun. We had an elephant, several drill teams of girls under 5, a group of accountants on Harleys, and probably anything else Christopher Guest could dream-up in a parody. Sometimes a parade is just a fun time. Lighten-up Boston (and nearly Cambridge).
BEARUPINDC
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

the basis of his sexual orientation. Who cares tho amiright!!!! He's not a traditional victim!!!

My future ex-wife, the blowhard she tends to be, accidentally happens to be spot on on this issues.


Fellow Bear,

My future ex-wife, the blowhard she tends to be, accidentally happens to be spot on on this issues.

is just too much information.
Being a Cal fan: You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

Nobody is whining about a small faction of heteros filing for a permit to celebrate their sexuality -- except Leftists playing the identity politics and victimhood game.

Well, and you.
GBear4Life
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sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

Nobody is whining about a small faction of heteros filing for a permit to celebrate their sexuality -- except Leftists playing the identity politics and victimhood game.

Well, and you.
Lol nope. I"m fine with both celebrating their sexuality for their own reasons, whatever they may be, and even when they don't make sense to me.

You have made it clear that you're not. You have broadcasted your priorities that are antithetical to equality and the values you espouse elsewhere, and then ignore it as usual when called out for it.

GBear4Life
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BEARUPINDC said:

GBear4Life said:



My future ex-wife, the blowhard she tends to be, accidentally happens to be spot on on this issues.
Fellow Bear,

My future ex-wife, the blowhard she tends to be, accidentally happens to be spot on on this issues.

is just too much information.
LOL, I see what you did there!
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

Nobody is whining about a small faction of heteros filing for a permit to celebrate their sexuality -- except Leftists playing the identity politics and victimhood game.

Well, and you.
Lol nope. I"m fine with both celebrating their sexuality for their own reasons, whatever they may be, and even when they don't make sense to me.

You have made it clear that you're not. You have broadcasted your priorities that are antithetical to equality and the values you espouse elsewhere, and then ignore it as usual when called out for it.



Okay, so you're whining about someone else whining.
Another Bear
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wifeisafurd said:

GBear4Life said:

The straight pride triggering of Leftist hypocrisy is playing out with every post.

Nobody is whining about a small faction of heteros filing for a permit to celebrate their sexuality -- except Leftists playing the identity politics and victimhood game. Let everybody celebrate their own traits they find worth celebrating. Many ethnic prides have little to do with the notion of being historical victims -- they are simply proud of their race. And liberals will let anybody do this -- except "whites".

To summarize: many of you believe that historical victimization is the justification to celebrate one's immutable characteristics, and the absence of that leaves you without justification. This is bizarre, an antithetical to equality, but it aligns with the ideology that victimization grants privilege -- the 'right' to celebrate one's identity.

As quoted in previous posts, the straight pride statements had nothing to do with victimhood, but merely wanting the same rights and treatment as gays to celebrate their own sexuality (it's weird to me too). Who wouldn't be for that, especially liberals?

Oh wait...
I think people from many political perspectives simply don't get the point of a straight pride parade. If that is whining, so be it. Maybe it is a Boston thing to get offended.

Here is another one I thought was an Onion article about parades:

Harvard: July 4th Parades Are Right-Wing https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/06/30/harvard-july-4th-parades-are-right-wing?src=usn_tw

Having marched in a July 4 parade in West Los Angles (not a GOP stronghold) with my dog (our dog group marches every July 4th), where the Honorable Maxie Waters was the parade marshall, I can tell Harvard it really isn't about right wing politics, but having fun. We had an elephant, several drill teams of girls under 5, a group of accountants on Harleys, and probably anything else Christopher Guest could dream-up in a parody. Sometimes a parade is just a fun time. Lighten-up Boston (and nearly Cambridge).
I read the article. First off, I agree parades are often just an excuse to have fun...at least in coastal California. I've been to a few July 4th parades in California and the Midwest. My take: parades reflect the community and their values that they're held in.

Example: Alameda (city and island) has an annual July 4th parade and it has changed over time. In the 80s it still had a major Navy and milarty vibe when the Naval base was still operational. Since the base has been closed and the Bay Area real estate market has gone nuts...and many former liberal SF'ers moving to Alameda, the parade has changed just like the community at large. The parade still has traditions but the vibe isn't so much full military...there's typical Bay Area weirdness now, just not a lot.

I imagine the same for West LA. But I've also noticed differences in the Midwest and places like Half Moon Bay. Very different vibe, different meaning. In the midwest, American flags are handed out to everyone and traditions are taken seriously.

The article. to me, didn't say July 4th parades were right wing...but instead July 4th parades benefit GOP pols much more and rarely benefits Dems. My take: July 4th parades are "orthodoxy" for Republicans, much like Christmas and Easter services/mass are orthodoxy for Christians but not others. It's part of the deal for GOP. It's not part of the deal for Dems.
GBear4Life
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Hey all you guys should help bring clarity to the Growls thread on diversity and race of Cal HCs with your wise, progressive insight! The racialist camp needs you to rescue them, they're getting smacked down.
GBear4Life
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sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

Nobody is whining about a small faction of heteros filing for a permit to celebrate their sexuality -- except Leftists playing the identity politics and victimhood game.

Well, and you.
Lol nope. I"m fine with both celebrating their sexuality for their own reasons, whatever they may be, and even when they don't make sense to me.

You have made it clear that you're not. You have broadcasted your priorities that are antithetical to equality and the values you espouse elsewhere, and then ignore it as usual when called out for it.



Okay, so you're whining about someone else whining.
If calling out morally self-righteous bigots on their illogical double standard is whining, guilty as charged!
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

Nobody is whining about a small faction of heteros filing for a permit to celebrate their sexuality -- except Leftists playing the identity politics and victimhood game.

Well, and you.
Lol nope. I"m fine with both celebrating their sexuality for their own reasons, whatever they may be, and even when they don't make sense to me.

You have made it clear that you're not. You have broadcasted your priorities that are antithetical to equality and the values you espouse elsewhere, and then ignore it as usual when called out for it.



Okay, so you're whining about someone else whining.
If calling out morally self-righteous bigots on their illogical double standard is whining, guilty as charged!
I'm glad we could agree on something.
GBear4Life
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sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:




Okay, so you're whining about someone else whining.
If calling out morally self-righteous bigots on their illogical double standard is whining, guilty as charged!
I'm glad we could agree on something.
LOL you're good at this game, no doubt.

But the bigot here is you brah! All YOU.
Yogi Bear
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GBear4Life said:

Hey all you guys should help bring clarity to the Growls thread on diversity and race of Cal HCs with your wise, progressive insight! The racialist camp needs you to rescue them, they're getting smacked down.
I have an idea for a parade I'd like to have.
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:




Okay, so you're whining about someone else whining.
If calling out morally self-righteous bigots on their illogical double standard is whining, guilty as charged!
I'm glad we could agree on something.
LOL you're good at this game, no doubt.

But the bigot here is you brah! All YOU.
You seem to have this strange idea that I've presented an illogical argument here, though you haven't done much to demonstrate how that's so. You HAVE tried to take things other liberal protestors have done and apply them to me, and then asserted (with a flourish) that I'm a bigot. That's not too convincing. I haven't tried to stop the Straight Pride Parade from going forward (indeed I directly stated that they have the right to do what they want), though I have also stated that I think it's pointless in a way the Gay Pride Parade isn't.

Let's review. In this thread, you asked the following question: "why are the purported experiences of victimization of the heteros dismissed out of hand?"

I answered, and in doing so presented a standard by which I would judge purported "victimization" of a particular group of people. You might not like my standard, but there's nothing illogical about it. I've applied it evenly across the board: homosexuals meet it, heterosexuals don't.

Moreover, the above quote demonstrates that YOU are the one claiming that the planners of the Straight Pride Parade ought to be afforded the same "victim" status as gay people in a Gay Pride Parade. You have otherwise claimed to despise those who want to claim "victim" status for themselves, yet still support the Straight Pride people. Seems to me you are the one who hasn't held to a consistent position here, all of the sake of trolling the libs. What a laudable goal.
Cal Junkie
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GBear4Life said:

The straight pride triggering of Leftist hypocrisy is playing out with every post.

A: You've already been proved incorrect on many occasions.

Nobody is whining about a small faction of heteros filing for a permit to celebrate their sexuality -- except Leftists playing the identity politics and victimhood game. Let everybody celebrate their own traits they find worth celebrating. Many ethnic prides have little to do with the notion of being historical victims -- they are simply proud of their race. And liberals will let anybody do this -- except "whites".

A: Gays are victims, Nazis and oppressors aren't. You're claiming victim status for being called out.

To summarize: many of you believe that historical victimization is the justification to celebrate one's immutable characteristics, and the absence of that leaves you without justification. This is bizarre, an antithetical to equality, but it aligns with the ideology that victimization grants privilege -- the 'right' to celebrate one's identity.

A: What characteristics? The right to own slaves? The right to steal land from Native Americans? The right to lynch blacks? I see many American Revolution parades on July 4th, so it's not as though liberals are calling you out for having pride parades. This is merely an antithesis to gay pride and gay victims everywhere. Yes - Gays have been victimized and stigmatized over and over again by (you guessed it) the same straight white Nazis who want to have their "parade."

As quoted in previous posts, the straight pride statements had nothing to do with victimhood, but merely wanting the same rights and treatment as gays to celebrate their own sexuality (it's weird to me too). Who wouldn't be for that, especially liberals?

A: It has a lot to do with "straight white victimhood" that's the basis of their parade.

Oh wait...

A: Accept your resounding defeat and move on.
dajo9
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According to this study 1 in 5 LGBTQ youth aged 13 - 24 attempted suicide in the past year.

Hey, I have an idea. Maybe older LGBTQ folks should have a parade or something aimed at instilling pride in being who you are to younger folks who are still trying to learn to adapt to the realities of being different from what is generally considered the norm. Maybe even non-LGBTQ folks could be supportive of such an event and embrace the ideal of inclusion. I think my idea could help a lot of people in need of help.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trevor-project-lgbtq-mental-health-survey_l_5cffa50de4b06d839dc554bc
An old white dude
Anarchistbear
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No, we'd also need a Straight Suicide Parade
GBear4Life
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No, I"m saying victimization should be irrelevant, but using your appeals to victimization, which inherently diminishes the victimization that these straight pride folks experience (real or perceived), I'm pointing out that you're a bigot on the basis of diminishing one group's behavior based on their sexual orientation and victim status (a status YOU determined).
GBear4Life
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dajo9 said:

According to this study 1 in 5 LGBTQ youth aged 13 - 24 attempted suicide in the past year.

Hey, I have an idea. Maybe older LGBTQ folks should have a parade or something aimed at instilling pride in being who you are to younger folks who are still trying to learn to adapt to the realities of being different from what is generally considered the norm. Maybe even non-LGBTQ folks could be supportive of such an event and embrace the ideal of inclusion. I think my idea could help a lot of people in need of help.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trevor-project-lgbtq-mental-health-survey_l_5cffa50de4b06d839dc554bc
Going out on a limb, but their suicide rates, particularly trans which to my understanding is the highest of any group in America, is *probably* because they're depressed. With trans, they were born with a disorder, and culture's and even medicine's proclaiming the answer is pretending to be the opposite sex through harmones and reconstruction surgery, and ensuring them safe spaces.

It doesn't work. The illness/disorder, centered around depression from not being comfortable in one's own skin and body, is what needs to be treated.
dajo9
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GBear4Life said:

dajo9 said:

According to this study 1 in 5 LGBTQ youth aged 13 - 24 attempted suicide in the past year.

Hey, I have an idea. Maybe older LGBTQ folks should have a parade or something aimed at instilling pride in being who you are to younger folks who are still trying to learn to adapt to the realities of being different from what is generally considered the norm. Maybe even non-LGBTQ folks could be supportive of such an event and embrace the ideal of inclusion. I think my idea could help a lot of people in need of help.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trevor-project-lgbtq-mental-health-survey_l_5cffa50de4b06d839dc554bc
Going out on a limb, but their suicide rates, particularly trans which to my understanding is the highest of any group in America, is *probably* because they're depressed. With trans, they were born with a disorder, and culture's and even medicine's proclaiming the answer is pretending to be the opposite sex through harmones and reconstruction surgery, and ensuring them safe spaces.

It doesn't work. The illness/disorder, centered around depression from not being comfortable in one's own skin and body, is what needs to be treated.
Well, you are certainly the expert on the subject aren't you
An old white dude
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

No, I"m saying victimization should be irrelevant, but using your appeals to victimization, which inherently diminishes the victimization that these straight pride folks experience (real or perceived), I'm pointing out that you're a bigot on the basis of diminishing one group's behavior based on their sexual orientation and victim status (a status YOU determined).

You asked the question about victimization, I answered. I don't believe I appealed to victimization before that.
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

dajo9 said:

According to this study 1 in 5 LGBTQ youth aged 13 - 24 attempted suicide in the past year.

Hey, I have an idea. Maybe older LGBTQ folks should have a parade or something aimed at instilling pride in being who you are to younger folks who are still trying to learn to adapt to the realities of being different from what is generally considered the norm. Maybe even non-LGBTQ folks could be supportive of such an event and embrace the ideal of inclusion. I think my idea could help a lot of people in need of help.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trevor-project-lgbtq-mental-health-survey_l_5cffa50de4b06d839dc554bc
Going out on a limb, but their suicide rates, particularly trans which to my understanding is the highest of any group in America, is *probably* because they're depressed. With trans, they were born with a disorder, and culture's and even medicine's proclaiming the answer is pretending to be the opposite sex through harmones and reconstruction surgery, and ensuring them safe spaces.

It doesn't work. The illness/disorder, centered around depression from not being comfortable in one's own skin and body, is what needs to be treated.

So to your mind, a sex change does not qualify as treatment?
BEARUPINDC
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GBear4Life said:


Going out on a limb, but their suicide rates, particularly trans which to my understanding is the highest of any group in America, is *probably* because they're depressed. With trans, they were born with a disorder, and culture's and even medicine's proclaiming the answer is pretending to be the opposite sex through harmones and reconstruction surgery, and ensuring them safe spaces.

It doesn't work. The illness/disorder, centered around depression from not being comfortable in one's own skin and body, is what needs to be treated.
The illness/disorder, centered around depression from not being comfortable in one's own skin and body, is what needs to be treated.

That is an hypothesis/assumption which is being tested. It is complicated because of the great difficulty in taking into consideration that any "group" or individual "may" have suicide ideation due to being bullied, made to feel different, not understood, having other illness/injury etc.

I used "may" as you, quite appropriately used "probably".

Being a Cal fan: You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave
GBear4Life
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sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:


Going out on a limb, but their suicide rates, particularly trans which to my understanding is the highest of any group in America, is *probably* because they're depressed. With trans, they were born with a disorder, and culture's and even medicine's proclaiming the answer is pretending to be the opposite sex through harmones and reconstruction surgery, and ensuring them safe spaces.

It doesn't work. The illness/disorder, centered around depression from not being comfortable in one's own skin and body, is what needs to be treated.

So to your mind, a sex change does not qualify as treatment?
I think the suicide rate post-operation being virtually identical pre-operation effectively demonstrates that it at least certainly isn't appropriate treatment a considerable percentage of the time.

Sex-change reversal operations are on the rise, and hormone treatment is being given to children with parent permission. That should be malpractice, IMO. I think it's odd that people will judge and sometimes mock cosmetic surgeries like breast implants and, say, someone like Michael Jackson surgically transforming himself into a caucasian, as being inherently unhealthy, self-involved and deluded. But sex-transformation? That's just sensible decision in one's own rational self-interest.

The patient believes mutilating one's self to align mind/body will solve the problem, when in fact the reality of the depression from still knowing it's not "real", so to speak, still hasn't been solved.

I think treatment to help the patient's depression in order to feel comfortable, safe, healthy and confident in a world where they are a very small percentage of the population that was born with gender dysphoria, a mind/body disequilibrium is crucial. No clinician or MD would recommend to a depressed patient, whose depression centers around feeling physically unattractive, to get cosmetic surgery to look less ugly.
dajo9
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think it takes a lot of gumption for a person to look into the emotional and mental distress of another family and from the outside decide they know what's best. I generally think governments and non-family should stay out of it and families and their doctors should do the best they can in a challenging situation.
An old white dude
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