Official Sarah We Hardly Knew Ye Thread

3,091 Views | 68 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by B.A. Bearacus
calbear93
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GBear4Life said:

LOL I ain't no home wrecker!

I do respect her though, and I admire the way she handled the Red Hen incident, and the constant disrespect from media she got, most of which is personal and projection for being the spokesperson and professional obfuscator for Trump.



I generally agree with you, but, in this instance, I disagree with you.

Other than a few, I have a hard time finding anyone who has served in this administration that I genuinely respect. They may be nice people, but that is not why they are there. They are there to serve this country with dignity and honesty. I am not saying that the Clinton or Obama administrations were clean, but the unacceptably low level of dignity, honesty, and sacrifice for the greater good demonstrated by most who have served in this administration is shocking.

The ones I continue to respect are Don McGahn, Christopher Wray, Gina Haspel, James Mattis, and, to a lesser extent, Rod Rosenstein. These are the same people (especially our intelligence) who are brutalized by our own president.

While I try to rationalize the benefits of the Supreme Court and elimination of some of the onerous regulations that were quintessential big government running amok, I believe we could have had a truly conservative or moderately conservative president accomplish the same without damaging our respect for law and order, dignity and relationship with allies.

I have no idea why someone who is decent would agree to engage in unethical behavior for a job. Despite her faith, she seems to have lost sight of who her true leader is (and it's not Trump). I am not very sad that she is leaving but I do not have great hope that someone better will be appointed.
bearister
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calbear93 said:

.... Despite her faith, she seems to have lost sight of who her true leader is (and it's not Trump...


The great thing about "faith" these days, whether it be the type exhibited by high profile Evangelicals or the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, is that it can be as flexible as a balloon animal when you need to twist and turn it a little bit to rationalize and/or enable abhorrent conduct.
GBear4Life
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The WH press secretary cannot hurt the president they serve. Full stop.

It is literally impossible to do that job with "integrity".

What's alarming is she loved the job so much, in her own words.

Outside of her role as WH press secretary, there's nothing. The way she handled the Red Hen, and the trolls in the media who were out to insult and destroy her and her boss, says a lot about her character, IMO.

That she's hated so much is because she wouldn't give the media what they wanted (a rope to hang Trump with). Spicer was hated. Saramucci was hated (I like him). No WHPS under Trump will be liked by the media or this board.

If you don't respect her, you must not respect anybody on this board who lol attacks her personal appearance because they can't handle the reality before us.
concordtom
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It's nice to read you writing that you approve of government officials who lie, as you believe it's part of their job description, and that lying WELL is an respectable and desireable job skill.

Now that we know that, we know that your moral/ethical compass is off kilter to such as extreme that nothing else you say should be taken as anything bordering worthwhile.

calbear93
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GBear4Life said:

The WH press secretary cannot hurt the president they serve. Full stop.

It is literally impossible to do that job with "integrity".

What's alarming is she loved the job so much, in her own words.

Outside of her role as WH press secretary, there's nothing. The way she handled the Red Hen, and the trolls in the media who were out to insult and destroy her and her boss, says a lot about her character, IMO.

That she's hated so much is because she wouldn't give the media what they wanted (a rope to hang Trump with). Spicer was hated. Saramucci was hated (I like him). No WHPS under Trump will be liked by the media or this board.

If you don't respect her, you must not respect anybody on this board who lol attacks her personal appearance because they can't handle the reality before us.
I wouldn't want any of these "progressives" who make fun of a woman based on the woman's level of attractiveness or objectify women by posting scantly clad women and commenting on their body parts to lecture me on how progressive they are on gender issues or serve on the administration. Strange how so many liberals (no need to go much further than Hollywood or SF to see how these progressives roll) are always progressive in talk and not so much in action (until they get caught).

I think you and I both know what I think about the level of hypocrisy on the left and on this board. You don't need to go much further than the racist taunts thrown at the black conservative interviewer asking the anti-Trump protesters some tough questions.

I just happen to disagree with you that there is no way to do the job with integrity. Maybe I am naive, but , someone who is decent would not agree to serve in a capacity that required knowingly lying and deceiving the public. Because things are generally not black and white, you can present your arguments or perspective most favorable to the administration. However, you do not make up your own facts.
calbear93
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bearister said:

calbear93 said:

.... Despite her faith, she seems to have lost sight of who her true leader is (and it's not Trump...


The great thing about "faith" these days, whether it be the type exhibited by high profile Evangelicals or the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, is that it can be as flexible as a balloon animal when you need to twist and turn it a little bit to rationalize and/or enable abhorrent conduct.
That is not true. Because Christians are human, they are susceptible to sin. But those who are Christians should put God before any party, politician, or even country. And they will not idolize some politician without eventually repenting. I suspect she will eventually repent for putting Trump and her job before God. No job and no politician is worth flaunting deception.
GBear4Life
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concordtom said:

Now that we know that, we know that your moral/ethical compass is off kilter to such as extreme that nothing else you say should be taken as anything bordering worthwhile.
You mean like when you proposed liars being killed? lol

Quote:

concordtom said:

I think public officials who have lied, and there is a TERRIBLY LONG list, they should all go to jail
And all the righteous BI leftists decided to look the other way? lol

Your greatest hits are too long to cite. The Leftist hypocrisy on here is too hilarious to ignore. You're literally the last person on here who should be virtue signaling. Thanks for misrepresenting my post, though.
Unit2Sucks
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GBear4Life said:

Sitting governor is out in 2022 due to term limits.

I think she'd do well as Governor.
Yes she will do well for herself and her family as a governor - just like her daddy. I doubt it will be good for the state though.
GBear4Life
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the state is deep red so they probably would like her, just like her dad.
bearister
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GBear4Life said:

the state is deep red so they probably would like her, just like her dad.


At the end of the day, a nation, as well as a state, gets the government it deserves, and that's why she and tRump are a lock.

1. A majority of Americans cannot name a single branch of government or explain what the Bill of Rights is;

2. 24% can't name the country that the U.S. fought in the Revolutionary War;

3. 2/3 don't know what the holding of Roe v. Wade is;

4. 2/3 don't know what the Food and Drug Administration does;

5. 50% don't know each state has two senators;

6. More than 50% can't name their congressman;

7. The average voter thinks 24% of the U.S. budget goes to foreign aid (less than 1% does);

8. 18% thinks the sun revolves around the earth;

9. 50% don't know that Judaism predates Christianity


*Only Leftist elitists know these kinds of things.
Unit2Sucks
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I would argue point 7 with you all day long. If you don't think a large proportion of our massive military spend is anything other than foreign aid under a different name, you aren't paying attention.
Another Bear
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This is why conservatives, RWNJs and hardline capitalists/libertarians are against education as a principle, and higher education in particular. Once an individual is shown how to apply critical thinking...they understand the conservative thinking and attitudes and how the system is gamed against the 99%.

A dumb and uneducated electorate (the Trump base), elects people like Trump and can't figure who is evil and who has their interests at hand, and can't figure out social media and getting gaslighted and trolled by Russkies.


GBear4Life
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bearister said:



*Only Leftist elitists know these kinds of things.
LOL Cheers mate!
GBear4Life
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Another Bear said:

This is why conservatives, RWNJs and hardline capitalists/libertarians are against education as a principle, and higher education in particular. Once an individual is shown how to apply critical thinking...they understand the conservative thinking and attitudes and how the system is gamed against the 99%.

A dumb and uneducated electorate (the Trump base), elects people like Trump and can't figure who is evil and who has their interests at hand, and can't figure out social media and getting gaslighted and trolled by Russkies.
When will head-in-the-sand Regressives understand neither ideology has so few, or enough, of anything, and when will they acknowledge traditional education does not equal wisdom or sense or ethics.

Using the 'well Trump's base is stupid' card is pure laziness and intentional projection.
Unit2Sucks
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calbear93 said:



I think you and I both know what I think about the level of hypocrisy on the left and on this board.


Do you think there is a monopoly on hypocrisy? We could go back and forth until the end of time sharing anecdotes of hypocrites on all sides of every issue and all ideologies and political parties. So yes, women's rights activists on the left have harassed women. And staunch pro-lifers have pressured their mistresses to obtain abortions.

If you think hypocrisy is disqualifying for the left, why not the right?
calbear93
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Unit2Sucks said:

calbear93 said:



I think you and I both know what I think about the level of hypocrisy on the left and on this board.


Do you think there is a monopoly on hypocrisy? We could go back and forth until the end of time sharing anecdotes of hypocrites on all sides of every issue and all ideologies and political parties. So yes, women's rights activists on the left have harassed women. And staunch pro-lifers have pressured their mistresses to obtain abortions.

If you think hypocrisy is disqualifying for the left, why not the right?


Of course I don't believe hypocrisy is limited to one side. I have no patience for others who are also pro-life but who have no empathy or concern for the welfare or well being of those who are born. I have no patience for those who forget about their sinfulness when condemning others for their sin as if any one of us does anything to earn our salvation.

I however will also take exception to those lecturing others about progressive values and rant against gender discrimination when they are also avid participants on judging women on appearance and objectifying women. Or those who rant against facism when their own goal is to shut down anyone who don't conform to their way of thinking. All you have to do is look at the post above by the typical liberal troll (I don't mean bearister) who adds no value other than make non-sensical conclusions and throws idiotic insults at half of the Americans as if he is displaying any evidence of true intelligence himself. If you guys are brave enough to leave this circle-jerk echo chamber and actually see if you want to persuade those Trumpers on their board, I am sure you too would be disgusted by the hypocrisy on that board. I am here now and I also don't believe you guys have the moral high ground despite the delusions of some here.
concordtom
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Unit2Sucks said:

I would argue point 7 with you all day long. If you don't think a large proportion of our massive military spend is anything other than foreign aid under a different name, you aren't paying attention.
Our government may have had Marshall Plan goodwill in mind when it all started long ago. But I dare say not many of those who vote for our annual military budget do so with "foreign aid" in mind today!

More wrapping themselves in the American flag than anything else.
The US military has a monopoly on patriotism. If anyone comes at it from any other angle, we are deemed "unamerican".
Very sad.
concordtom
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GBear4Life said:

bearister said:



*Only Leftist elitists know these kinds of things.
LOL Cheers mate!
You ain't no mate.
GBear4Life
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Unit2Sucks said:

calbear93 said:



I think you and I both know what I think about the level of hypocrisy on the left and on this board.


Do you think there is a monopoly on hypocrisy? We could go back and forth until the end of time sharing anecdotes of hypocrites on all sides of every issue and all ideologies and political parties. So yes, women's rights activists on the left have harassed women. And staunch pro-lifers have pressured their mistresses to obtain abortions.

If you think hypocrisy is disqualifying for the left, why not the right?
This is whataboutism. Is hypocrisy and abject double standards acceptable or not? That's something each person needs to decide for, and about, themselves.

Naturally, 'moderates' generally are poor police of their own tribes. Moderates are quiet, they're not on the internet as much and they're not activists. Evangelical Christians are better at pointing out the liabilities of Islam than moderate Muslims, and vice versa. Hard-left wingers are better at pointing out the liabilities of the Right better than the moderate Right, and vice versa.

I also think there is more genuine consensus on the Right than there is among liberals on the Left. In other words, the Left is more diverse ideologically than the right. Not about which is "better", just an observation. And the Left does a very poor job at marginalizing nefarious pathologies that are on the "Left". Instead, the nefarious factions of the Left are marginalizing sensible liberals who don't cater to the identitarian orthodoxy. They are loud and active, and create tremendous social, economic and political pressure with their rhetoric. (E.g. demanding apologies and the ruining of reputations and careers for benign statements)
Unit2Sucks
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GBear4Life said:

That's something each person needs to decide for, and about, themselves.



Most political tribalists have decided that hypocrisy only matters when the other side is doing it. That much is obvious.

I do agree with you that conservatives are much more likely to circle the wagons whereas the left is most likely to eat its own. Whether you consider either of those reactions to be a virtue or a negative I suppose says a lot about a person.
GBear4Life
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Unit2Sucks said:



Most political tribalists have decided that hypocrisy only matters when the other side is doing it. That much is obvious.
Yes, and many on this board have made it very clear they are content engaging in this hypocrisy -- hence the virtue signaling cuts no ice.

I don't think "eating your own" is necessarily a bad thing; it's another way of saying holding those in your tribe accountable, and rejecting ideology when it goes off the deep end.

But the problem is the eating on the left has been the identitarian Left kicking other liberals out of the tribe for not being in lockstep with their nefarious orthodoxy, the stuff the rational Left should be kicking out of their tribe.

But both tribes no to some degree or another, that unity wins elections. More reason to abolish the party system. That tribalism baked into a duopoly will dissipate. You would no longer have to shill in the name of the better side winning.
bearister
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The Right and the Left are just different sides of the same coin. Each obsess over being very deep in your shorts controlling your conduct.....and I object to being called a Leftist just because I have a pathological hatred for the tRump Crime Family and its capos. I have little interest in controlling anyone's conduct that isn't in my space messing with me....or messing with the weak.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
calbear93
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GBear4Life said:

Unit2Sucks said:



Most political tribalists have decided that hypocrisy only matters when the other side is doing it. That much is obvious.
Yes, and many on this board have made it very clear they are content engaging in this hypocrisy -- hence the virtue signaling cuts no ice.

I don't think "eating your own" is necessarily a bad thing; it's another way of saying holding those in your tribe accountable, and rejecting ideology when it goes off the deep end.

But the problem is the eating on the left has been the identitarian Left kicking other liberals out of the tribe for not being in lockstep with their nefarious orthodoxy, the stuff the rational Left should be kicking out of their tribe.

But both tribes no to some degree or another, that unity wins elections. More reason to abolish the party system. That tribalism baked into a duopoly will dissipate. You would no longer have to shill in the name of the better side winning.
Absolutely.

The thing I hate the most about the far left is the gotcha game they play. If you don't say the right things in the right tone at all times, there is this mob mentality of destroying the person or at the very least have that person get down to their knees begging for forgiveness. We all know what they are. They are the quintessential bullies who dress themselves as moral superiors. For the same reasons kids bully other kids in the playground, the far left do it to everyone. They just want a cheap, empty way to feel superior and ignore their own insecurities and inadequacies. If their actual actions matched what they say they believe and what they demand of others, at least I would view them as misguided true believers. But we all know that they don't live up to their own standards.

There are crazies and hateful trash (namely the racists and other bigots) on the far right, but, in general, those are rejected by mainstream Republicans (Trump being the exception at times). No need to go further than Steve King and how he has become a pariah. The mainstream Democrats (other than sometimes Pelosi) cater to the far left, including those who are bigoted against Jews and Christians. They are becoming the new Labour party. You may wonder how Republicans can still be in favor of Trump. The simple answer is that, as much as most Republicans to a man despise Trump, they despise even more the far left who are becoming the voice of the Democratic party. We all have blind spots, but most people here who deride Republicans for not rejecting Trump stay silent about the far left. I know far more Republicans who will rebuke and reject Trump than I do liberals who do the same with their crazies.

The only way we are going to get beyond this is to get rid of the primaries. I don't think it will ever happen. If we were wise enough to have all candidates run, with the top two in a runoff election, they would have to cater to moderates instead of catering to the extremes.
calbear93
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bearister said:

The Right and the Left are just different sides of the same coin. Each obsess over being very deep in your shorts controlling your conduct.....and I object to being called a Leftist just because I have a pathological hatred for the tRump Crime Family and its capos. I have little interest in controlling anyone's conduct that isn't in my space messing with me....or messing with the weak.
Preach on. You almost sound like a libertarian.
Unit2Sucks
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calbear93 said:



Absolutely.

The thing I hate the most about the far left is the gotcha game they play. If you don't say the right things in the right tone at all times, there is this mob mentality of destroying the person or at the very least have that person get down to their knees begging for forgiveness. We all know what they are. They are the quintessential bullies who dress themselves as moral superiors. For the same reasons kids bully other kids in the playground, the far left do it to everyone. They just want a cheap, empty way to feel superior and ignore their own insecurities and inadequacies. If their actual actions matched what they say they believe and what they demand of others, at least I would view them as misguided true believers. But we all know that they don't live up to their own standards.

There are crazies and hateful trash (namely the racists and other bigots) on the far right, but, in general, those are rejected by mainstream Republicans (Trump being the exception at times). No need to go further than Steve King and how he has become a pariah. The mainstream Democrats (other than sometimes Pelosi) cater to the far left, including those who are bigoted against Jews and Christians. They are becoming the new Labour party. You may wonder how Republicans can still be in favor of Trump. The simple answer is that, as much as most Republicans to a man despise Trump, they despise even more the far left who are becoming the voice of the Democratic party. We all have blind spots, but most people here who deride Republicans for not rejecting Trump stay silent about the far left. I know far more Republicans who will rebuke and reject Trump than I do liberals who do the same with their crazies.

The only way we are going to get beyond this is to get rid of the primaries. I don't think it will ever happen. If we were wise enough to have all candidates run, with the top two in a runoff election, they would have to cater to moderates instead of catering to the extremes.
I don't disagree with you that the primary system contributes to the madness, but it's also not clear to me that you are presenting an unbiased view. You could just as easily reverse your claims by substituting republicans for democrats.

Steve King is a fabulous example for republicans circling their wagons as long as possible. Almost everything else you wrote makes me wonder where you were during the Clinton years. Also would be great to know whether you are currently wearing an American flag pin on your lapel.
calbear93
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Unit2Sucks said:

calbear93 said:



Absolutely.

The thing I hate the most about the far left is the gotcha game they play. If you don't say the right things in the right tone at all times, there is this mob mentality of destroying the person or at the very least have that person get down to their knees begging for forgiveness. We all know what they are. They are the quintessential bullies who dress themselves as moral superiors. For the same reasons kids bully other kids in the playground, the far left do it to everyone. They just want a cheap, empty way to feel superior and ignore their own insecurities and inadequacies. If their actual actions matched what they say they believe and what they demand of others, at least I would view them as misguided true believers. But we all know that they don't live up to their own standards.

There are crazies and hateful trash (namely the racists and other bigots) on the far right, but, in general, those are rejected by mainstream Republicans (Trump being the exception at times). No need to go further than Steve King and how he has become a pariah. The mainstream Democrats (other than sometimes Pelosi) cater to the far left, including those who are bigoted against Jews and Christians. They are becoming the new Labour party. You may wonder how Republicans can still be in favor of Trump. The simple answer is that, as much as most Republicans to a man despise Trump, they despise even more the far left who are becoming the voice of the Democratic party. We all have blind spots, but most people here who deride Republicans for not rejecting Trump stay silent about the far left. I know far more Republicans who will rebuke and reject Trump than I do liberals who do the same with their crazies.

The only way we are going to get beyond this is to get rid of the primaries. I don't think it will ever happen. If we were wise enough to have all candidates run, with the top two in a runoff election, they would have to cater to moderates instead of catering to the extremes.
I don't disagree with you that the primary system contributes to the madness, but it's also not clear to me that you are presenting an unbiased view. You could just as easily reverse your claims by substituting republicans for democrats.

Steve King is a fabulous example for republicans circling their wagons as long as possible. Almost everything else you wrote makes me wonder where you were during the Clinton years. Also would be great to know whether you are currently wearing an American flag pin on your lapel.
Yes, Republicans are infamous for setting PC traps. Oh, boy.

Where was I during the Clinton years? Cheering him on for being a moderate and working with the Republicans. I viewed, and still view, Newt Gingrich as a fraud. And I have no idea what you mean about the American flag.

But it's nice when every point can be reverted to but, but, but, whatabout?

If I see Republicans playing gotcha, I will call them on it. OK?
Unit2Sucks
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calbear93 said:


Yes, Republicans are infamous for setting PC traps. Oh, boy.

Where was I during the Clinton years? Cheering him on for being a moderate and working with the Republicans. I viewed, and still view, Newt Gingrich as a fraud. And I have no idea what you mean about the American flag.

But it's nice when every point can be reverted to but, but, but, whatabout?

If I see Republicans playing gotcha, I will call them on it. OK?

This isn't whataboutism. I'm not refuting or defending the democrats against accusations. If I were to defend a democrat against a claim that he did something wrong by pointing out the same exact thing done by a republican, that would be whataboutism.

The conversation we are having here is, essentially, that you've identified some behaviors you don't agree with as being particularly prevalent by democrats (and I suppose you also said to people on BI). I think it's perfectly reasonable in that context to challenge your unsubstantiated assumption as to whether it's truly more prevalent on the right or the left.

Just to provide some context, if I were to defend a democrat against criticism for benefiting from a gerrymandered district by pointing to the numerous republicans who have done so, that's whataboutism. If instead I were challenging someone who said they didn't like democrats because they feel that gerrymandering is largely a democrat issue, it should be fair game for discussion. Do you disagree that there is a distinction between those two examples?

calbear93
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Unit2Sucks said:

calbear93 said:


Yes, Republicans are infamous for setting PC traps. Oh, boy.

Where was I during the Clinton years? Cheering him on for being a moderate and working with the Republicans. I viewed, and still view, Newt Gingrich as a fraud. And I have no idea what you mean about the American flag.

But it's nice when every point can be reverted to but, but, but, whatabout?

If I see Republicans playing gotcha, I will call them on it. OK?

This isn't whataboutism. I'm not refuting or defending the democrats against accusations. If I were to defend a democrat against a claim that he did something wrong by pointing out the same exact thing done by a republican, that would be whataboutism.

The conversation we are having here is, essentially, that you've identified some behaviors you don't agree with as being particularly prevalent by democrats (and I suppose you also said to people on BI). I think it's perfectly reasonable in that context to challenge your unsubstantiated assumption as to whether it's truly more prevalent on the right or the left.

Just to provide some context, if I were to defend a democrat against criticism for benefiting from a gerrymandered district by pointing to the numerous republicans who have done so, that's whataboutism. If instead I were challenging someone who said they didn't like democrats because they feel that gerrymandering is largely a democrat issue, it should be fair game for discussion. Do you disagree that there is a distinction between those two examples?




Sorry, what is your point? That the far right Republicans are just as guilty of being PC police as the far left Democrats? If that is your point, and you think I am crazy for thinking that PC policing is more prevalent with the liberals, bless your heart and have a good day. That was just more time I wasted engaging you on this.
Unit2Sucks
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Thoughts and prayers to you and your family for the trauma you've suffered under the oppressive yoke of a PC culture. Thoughts and prayers.
calbear93
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Unit2Sucks said:

Thoughts and prayers to you and your family for the trauma you've suffered under the oppressive yoke of a PC culture. Thoughts and prayers.


To think that at one point many years ago, I took you to be rational. What a stupid self-centered view you must have to believe one is against something only because it impacted that person adversely. Or maybe I can be against mob mentality PC police out of principle? I suppose you only are in favor of better medical care for everyone because your child has suffered for lack of medical coverage. Give my condolences to your family. I will now put you on ignore like the other trolls.
Unit2Sucks
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calbear93 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Thoughts and prayers to you and your family for the trauma you've suffered under the oppressive yoke of a PC culture. Thoughts and prayers.


To think that at one point many years ago, I took you to be rational. What a stupid self-centered view you must have to believe one is against something only because it impacted that person adversely. Or maybe I can be against mob mentality PC police out of principle? I suppose you only are in favor of better medical care for everyone because your child has suffered for lack of medical coverage. Give my condolences to your family. I will now put you on ignore like the other trolls.
I don't know you in real life but assume you are a kind caring person, etc. Your online persona however seems incapable of engaging in nuanced discussion and presents as a thin-skinned, easily triggered rageaholic. You frequently fly off the handle at the slightest provocation as if blinded by rage at the thought of someone challenging any opinion you hold. Your persona lacks self-awareness and humility and you clearly take yourself (and everything else) way too seriously. It's ironic that you challenge my rationality given the way you engage on topics here. I challenged you on your opinions regarding the differences between republicans and democrat and you, to nobody's surprise, were unable to do so without going into a berserker rageout.

I'm happy you blocked me if it reduces the chances of you being triggered with rage at the thought of having to share space with someone who doesn't share your views. I wish you well and hope that blocking me provides the solace that your online persona desires.
GBear4Life
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Unit2Sucks said:

Thoughts and prayers to you and your family for the trauma you've suffered under the oppressive yoke of a PC culture. Thoughts and prayers.
It's gone beyond "PC culture", as if Bear93 and others who share his voice are nothing more than one-dimensional a-holes who simply want the freedom to say offensive things without being criticized for it, a complete caricature of the issue. It's an irrational mob, using the impotence and cowardice of the Left to advance at times objectively false claims to ruining lives and reputations in the quest for a "greater cause". They believe this is the "price of progress".

Speaking of the devil, Buttgieg's candidacy rests on placating a belligerent, racialist mob in a way that satisfies the mob....and eveybody's public reputation and careers can teeter based on their ability or inability to assert nonsense in a way that appease these degenerates.

prospeCt
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B.A. Bearacus
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