What is your honest motivation for posting about this firefight between cops and a gunman? Always terrible when cops die in the line of duty, but honestly, why are you posting this on this board?oski003 said:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/wild-shootout-near-freeway-in-riverside-leaves-chp-officer-and-gunman-dead/ar-AAFJpha?li=BBnbfcL
I don't have a problem with you posting this, but this is not a mass shooting by most definitions I found and not by the definition that creates the "one per day" statistic.oski003 said:
When people, including those on this board, publicize that the U.S. averages more than one mass shooting a day and then only discuss pre-meditated mass shooting at schools, malls, etc..., it is very misleading.
It is important to also discuss the other mass shootings in these statistics, such as the one I linked here. The mass shooting statistics also include gang violence, when multiple gang members are shot, but I am posting this one because I didn't want to focus on gang violence. I came across this story this morning.
Perhaps nobody on this board is law enforcement, so nobody should care?
I think what you are really asking for is a wall. While I wish we could wall off the rest of the country from California, unfortunately there was a document written a few hundred years ago which prohibits us from doing so. One of the reasons Hawaii is safe from gun violence (gun death rate is 1/5 the mainland, gun suicide just a bit higher than that) is because you can't just drive over with your weapons from a gun loving state. When people say gun control doesn't work, what they really mean is that our constitution makes state and local gun control ineffective. Hawaii is proof that gun control (and lots of sunshine) work.oski003 said:
I further believe that if a state has a constitutional gun law, people should not be legally allowed to go to another state to buy a gun and then bring it into the state that bans it.
So it would appear.oski003 said:
Was the gun the Gilroy shooter used legal in California or did he break the law bringing it in? If so, which is logical, perhaps these laws already exist, and it is just a matter of enforcement, which is obviously difficult.
It's hardly a "mass shooting" incident when a suspect and a cop get into a shootout, and then other officers come in to assist.oski003 said:
It is a mass shooting in California. We have been discussing this for weeks, especially in light of the Gilroy, El Paso, and Dayton mass shootings. I am adding to the discussion. Thank you.
That really means nothing. Common sense says that a shootout between two individuals with one subsequently assisted by other cops is not a "mass shooting.oski003 said:
It is according to the statistics cited by the media.
oski003 said:
Would it help if someone had to show proof of residence in a state to buy guns in that state? Can a state require that? Or is that unconstitutional?
1* SoCal has for years had very large gun shows (aka the background check loophole)BearNIt said:
Every time that I hear that law enforcement has been involved in a shooting I hold my breath as I have a number of immediate family members involved in law enforcement at various levels. I know the hospital where the officers was taken and I can tell you that they did everything humanly possible to treat and save the lives of all who were injured because that is who they are.
I have questions regarding the POS who started shooting. What was he doing with an assault rifle in his truck driving around? How can a POS like him who had served time for attempted murder even get a gun let alone an assault rifle? ... 1*
Enough of this hiding behind the 2nd amendment and using it to justify the owning of a weapon that is used in a time of war to kill an enemy. How long is it going to be before someone you care about is a victim of a shooting that involves an assault weapon given the current frequency that these shootings are happening? 2 *
I believe Congressional Republicans like McConnel continue to push for state concealed carry permits to be valid in all 50 states. Concealed Carry Reciprocity Actoski003 said:
Would it help if someone had to show proof of residence in a state to buy guns in that state? Can a state require that? Or is that unconstitutional?
And smuggled into Mexico where they are illegal. Maybe Mexico should demand that Trump stop smuggling illegal weapons into Mexico...bearister said:
Guns are trucked into California from Nevada by the trailer load for illegal sale. The main reason there are so many pistoleros on the streets of Oaktown.
sp4149 said:1* SoCal has for years had very large gun shows (aka the background check loophole)BearNIt said:
Every time that I hear that law enforcement has been involved in a shooting I hold my breath as I have a number of immediate family members involved in law enforcement at various levels. I know the hospital where the officers was taken and I can tell you that they did everything humanly possible to treat and save the lives of all who were injured because that is who they are.
I have questions regarding the POS who started shooting. What was he doing with an assault rifle in his truck driving around? How can a POS like him who had served time for attempted murder even get a gun let alone an assault rifle? ... 1*
Enough of this hiding behind the 2nd amendment and using it to justify the owning of a weapon that is used in a time of war to kill an enemy. How long is it going to be before someone you care about is a victim of a shooting that involves an assault weapon given the current frequency that these shootings are happening? 2 *
During the last year, Crossroads of the West Gun Shows attracted more than half a million guests, more than any other gun show in America. They put on shows at county fairgrounds and convention centers around the west, several within a 60-90 minute drive of where the killer lived. The San Diego County communities got a three month ban on their use of SD County fairgrounds buildings but the gun show won out and are back to hosting their quarterly events.
2* Many Americans have experience with gunshot wounds, the number of daily gun shot injuries would be horrifying elsewhere in the world but we accept it as part of our culture. But Americans do not recognize the difference between a gunshot wound and an assault weapon wound; the amplification of the wound from the entry point of the high speed assault weapon bullet expanding into massive internal injuries and exit void. Maybe some graphic video images of assault weapon's carnage would make the public acknowledge that these are not hunting or sporting weapons.
AS I WROTE EARLIER, a simple solution would be to classify them as weapons of mass destruction (WMD); they have proven more deadly than some other WMDs. The NRA would be harder pressed to advocate ownership of WMDs.
sp4149 said:And smuggled into Mexico where they are illegal. Maybe Mexico should demand that Trump stop smuggling illegal weapons into Mexico...bearister said:
Guns are trucked into California from Nevada by the trailer load for illegal sale. The main reason there are so many pistoleros on the streets of Oaktown.
Golden One said:That really means nothing. Common sense says that a shootout between two individuals with one subsequently assisted by other cops is not a "mass shooting.oski003 said:
It is according to the statistics cited by the media.
sp4149 said:I believe Congressional Republicans like McConnel continue to push for state concealed carry permits to be valid in all 50 states. Concealed Carry Reciprocity Actoski003 said:
Would it help if someone had to show proof of residence in a state to buy guns in that state? Can a state require that? Or is that unconstitutional?
It also allows out of state residents to carry weapons in areas where weapons are banned by state law. The GOP is pretty much brain dead on effective gun control.
Unit2Sucks said:So it would appear.oski003 said:
Was the gun the Gilroy shooter used legal in California or did he break the law bringing it in? If so, which is logical, perhaps these laws already exist, and it is just a matter of enforcement, which is obviously difficult.
This isn't really about enforcement though since it's impossible to enforce a possession law that will prevent someone from legally purchasing a gun in Nevada and using it soon thereafter in California. Even if you were to ignore constitutionally protected privacy rights, it's impractical to expect law enforcement to be able to figure out who is bringing guns illegally from neighboring states. We share a 600+ mile border with Nevada and cannot prevent people from moving freely across state lines.
In order for gun control to truly be effective, we need a controlled border (ironic isn't it?) or Federal legislation. This is why it's so disingenuous to say that gun control never works - it's never been implemented.
oski003 said:
Are you and Bearister implying that the only way to keep illegal guns out of California and Mexico is a nation-wide ban on such guns because they would be smuggled anyway? Are you arguing that Mexican gun laws and California gun laws do not matter?
On one of my last visits to Baton Rouge a couple of years ago, there were billboards along the freeways proclaiming Baton Rouge had more murders than Chicago. For a red Duck Dynasty state like Louisiana it seemed a strange claim to fame.sycasey said:Unit2Sucks said:So it would appear.oski003 said:
Was the gun the Gilroy shooter used legal in California or did he break the law bringing it in? If so, which is logical, perhaps these laws already exist, and it is just a matter of enforcement, which is obviously difficult.
This isn't really about enforcement though since it's impossible to enforce a possession law that will prevent someone from legally purchasing a gun in Nevada and using it soon thereafter in California. Even if you were to ignore constitutionally protected privacy rights, it's impractical to expect law enforcement to be able to figure out who is bringing guns illegally from neighboring states. We share a 600+ mile border with Nevada and cannot prevent people from moving freely across state lines.
In order for gun control to truly be effective, we need a controlled border (ironic isn't it?) or Federal legislation. This is why it's so disingenuous to say that gun control never works - it's never been implemented.
AND gun control DOES work. States with tough gun laws have lower rates of gun death than states with lax gun laws. It's not as low as we'd like it to be, but it is lower. Even that great conservative punching bag, Chicago, has lower rates than large cities in red states (like New Orleans, St. Louis, etc.).
There will never be any law that 100% prevents gun violence, but there certainly are ways to lower its prevalence.
My much too subtle point was that gun smuggling from the US across the border is a bigger threat to Mexico than migrant workers entering the US to work in the fields are to the US.oski003 said:sp4149 said:And smuggled into Mexico where they are illegal. Maybe Mexico should demand that Trump stop smuggling illegal weapons into Mexico...bearister said:
Guns are trucked into California from Nevada by the trailer load for illegal sale. The main reason there are so many pistoleros on the streets of Oaktown.
Are you and Bearister implying that the only way to keep illegal guns out of California and Mexico is a nation-wide ban on such guns because they would be smuggled anyway? Are you arguing that Mexican gun laws and California gun laws do not matter?