The escalating conflict between Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, explained

14,970 Views | 172 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Anarchistbear
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

Cal88 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

wifeisafurd said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:

"Nobody wants to work with him"
"He told me he didn't believe a woman could be President"

This is junior high school quality stuff. Is this really the best that the establishment has to throw against him?

Meanwhile his response "On a good day, my wife likes me" and then goes right back to discussing impeachment. When pressed for why she's still talking about 2016, he says "That's a good question. Ask her."

LOL
Let me add; "she is a Russian asset":

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard sues Hillary Clinton for alleged 'Russian asset' smear in 2020 Democratic presidential contest, claiming $50 million in damages https://cnb.cx/2NMtwc7

And good for Bernie.

Maybe women are upset by Clinton's loss, but the more she says, the scary she sounds if she had won.


Tulsi is proving that she really is more like a republican than a democrat by filing a frivolous lawsuit. This is Devin Nunes style.

Are Hillary and Warren also "more like republicans" when they smear Bernie?
No, I think Republicans love Bernie because he is less likely to beat Trump. And they benefit even if he loses because his bros would make it harder for the eventual nominee to get elected. You don't think Trump and Republicans favor Bernie because they think he would make a better POTUS do you?

Bernie would fare better with independents than Biden. He, along with Tulsi and Yang have anti-establishment credentials that appeal to potential Trump voters and would undercut his base, especially if they separate themselves from the DNC machine, as Bernie and Tulsi are doing now. In comparison, very few Hillary voters would choose Trump over Sanders.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
So please tell me why Trump says nicer things about Bernie than anyone else in the primary?
dimitrig
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

So please tell me why Trump says nicer things about Bernie than anyone else in the primary?

Trump has a thing for Jewish people, especially those from NYC.

bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

So please tell me why Trump says nicer things about Bernie than anyone else in the primary?


Because mom and pop in the flyover key Electoral College states ain't voting for him.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention

“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
wifeisafurd
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

Cal88 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

wifeisafurd said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:

"Nobody wants to work with him"
"He told me he didn't believe a woman could be President"

This is junior high school quality stuff. Is this really the best that the establishment has to throw against him?

Meanwhile his response "On a good day, my wife likes me" and then goes right back to discussing impeachment. When pressed for why she's still talking about 2016, he says "That's a good question. Ask her."

LOL
Let me add; "she is a Russian asset":

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard sues Hillary Clinton for alleged 'Russian asset' smear in 2020 Democratic presidential contest, claiming $50 million in damages https://cnb.cx/2NMtwc7

And good for Bernie.

Maybe women are upset by Clinton's loss, but the more she says, the scary she sounds if she had won.


Tulsi is proving that she really is more like a republican than a democrat by filing a frivolous lawsuit. This is Devin Nunes style.

Are Hillary and Warren also "more like republicans" when they smear Bernie?
No, I think Republicans love Bernie because he is less likely to beat Trump. And they benefit even if he loses because his bros would make it harder for the eventual nominee to get elected. You don't think Trump and Republicans favor Bernie because they think he would make a better POTUS do you?
I'm not a Bernie fan, but I'm willing to admit people really underestimate him. He has good potlical skills.
Yogi14
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

So please tell me why Trump says nicer things about Bernie than anyone else in the primary?
"How about this guy this socialist Bernie Sanders? This guy's a total whack job"

"Crazy Bernie, I tell you, I gotta hand it to Bernie. I saw him up there the other day. That hair is getting whiter and white, and he's getting crazier and crazier."

""Bernie Sanders has abandoned his supporters by endorsing pro-war, pro-TPP, pro-Wall Street Crooked Hillary Clinton"

Yep, huge fan
Yogi14
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:

Unit2Sucks said:

So please tell me why Trump says nicer things about Bernie than anyone else in the primary?


Because mom and pop in the flyover key Electoral College states ain't voting for him.
You mean like Michigan?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Michigan

Nebraska?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Nebraska

Kansas?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Kansas

Oklahoma?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Oklahoma

Utah?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Utah

Wisconsin?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Wisconsin

Iowa (virtual tie)?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Iowa


C'mon. Tell me which states.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I wasn't talking about the primaries, I'm talkin' about the General Election where Bernie can't lure enough mom and pops back from the Dark Side in the key Electoral College states to dump tRump. Unfortunately they probably only relate to Biden.....but with easily compromised voting machines, it doesn't matter who the Dem candidate is.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention

“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think Bernie can win the Rust Belt states away from Trump. I also acknowledge that currently Biden polls better there.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:

I wasn't talking about the primaries, I'm talkin' about the General Election where Bernie can't lure enough mom and pops back from the Dark Side in the key Electoral College states to dump tRump. Unfortunately they probably only relate to Biden.....but with easily compromised voting machines, it doesn't matter who the Dem candidate is.
LOL . . . but with easily compromised voting machines, it doesn't matter who the Dem candidate is.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Professor Turgeson Bear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

That shows that Trump is much closer to beating Sanders than Biden and he hasn't even started attacking Sanders yet. More evidence for my position.
I suggest you read those polls again
How do you read polls that show Biden beating Trump more consistently and by a higher margin than Bernie?
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Biden hasn't been attacked yet, he's pretty vulnerable, he's got a lot of baggage, and he's also very prone to make mistakes.

Sanders can be attacked as a socialist, but that line is only going to turn off people who would have voted for Trump anyway, but won't hurt him in the Rust Belt.

He's getting swiftboated by the Dem establishment, in a coordinated attack from Hillary, Warren, the MSM. He's going to lose some of the middle aged Hillary female vote, but he will also gain from this cementing his anti-establishment credentials.
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cal88 said:

Biden hasn't been attacked yet
He hasn't? Have you noticed what Trump was trying to get Ukraine to do? You know, what this whole impeachment is about?
BearlyCareAnymore
How long do you want to ignore this user?
wifeisafurd said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Cal88 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

wifeisafurd said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:

"Nobody wants to work with him"
"He told me he didn't believe a woman could be President"

This is junior high school quality stuff. Is this really the best that the establishment has to throw against him?

Meanwhile his response "On a good day, my wife likes me" and then goes right back to discussing impeachment. When pressed for why she's still talking about 2016, he says "That's a good question. Ask her."

LOL
Let me add; "she is a Russian asset":

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard sues Hillary Clinton for alleged 'Russian asset' smear in 2020 Democratic presidential contest, claiming $50 million in damages https://cnb.cx/2NMtwc7

And good for Bernie.

Maybe women are upset by Clinton's loss, but the more she says, the scary she sounds if she had won.


Tulsi is proving that she really is more like a republican than a democrat by filing a frivolous lawsuit. This is Devin Nunes style.

Are Hillary and Warren also "more like republicans" when they smear Bernie?
No, I think Republicans love Bernie because he is less likely to beat Trump. And they benefit even if he loses because his bros would make it harder for the eventual nominee to get elected. You don't think Trump and Republicans favor Bernie because they think he would make a better POTUS do you?
I'm not a Bernie fan, but I'm willing to admit people really underestimate him. He has good potlical skills.
I don't really agree with this. People underestimate the power of Bernie's message. Unlike the mythology presented by many, poll after poll show a large majority of Americans think the wealthy should pay a lot more in taxes and that the wealthy get over on everyone else big time. (this idea that poor people are against taxing wealthy because they hope to be wealthy one day is completely unfounded).

In my opinion Bernie makes a lot of unforced errors that undercut him. Number 1 is calling himself a socialist for no damned reason. 1. He isn't one. 2. If he is one it is only in the sense of some European political reinterpretation of the word because they don't have the same taboo over that word that the US does. 3. He could have argued everything that he does and not be saddled with that baggage. If he just stuck to policy and didn't say "socialist", he'd have a lot more votes today from people who grew up being afraid of that word.

Another minor example was when he came out for allowing felons in prison to vote (not former felons who have done their time). What the hell was that for? It's not going to happen and it is deeply unpopular. You have to have the discipline to not talk about minor issues where you go very much against the grain.

Bernie is genuine. Bernie has been Bernie for a long time. He has a message that appeals to a lot of people. I see why you say he has skills, but if they were so great, he'd be leading this thing right now. His standing in the polls with the name recognition he had and coming off getting 43% on the anybody but Clinton vote is actually pretty poor. I think a lot of Warren's popularity in the summer is that people hoped she'd be Bernie with better political skills, but she turned out to be fake Bernie, so her popularity plummeted.

Frankly none of the Democratic candidates are great candidates. They all have major flaws. Of course, they will be running against a candidate who has a lot of major flaws.
Yogi14
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:

I wasn't talking about the primaries, I'm talkin' about the General Election where Bernie can't lure enough mom and pops back from the Dark Side in the key Electoral College states to dump tRump. Unfortunately they probably only relate to Biden.....but with easily compromised voting machines, it doesn't matter who the Dem candidate is.
I just showed you that Bernie is more popular in those red states than you think. If you're saying no one can beat Trump, then it doesn't matter.
Yogi14
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

That shows that Trump is much closer to beating Sanders than Biden and he hasn't even started attacking Sanders yet. More evidence for my position.
I suggest you read those polls again
How do you read polls that show Biden beating Trump more consistently and by a higher margin than Bernie?
RCP Average:

Sanders 48.5
Trump 45.0

Biden 48.8
Trump 44.2

The difference between the two is statistically insignificant.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?

"Understand your party's core challenge. All around the world parties on the left are losing because they have lost touch with the working class. These parties think they can reconnect with that class by swinging even further left. But Jeremy Corbyn in Britain and Bernie Sanders here are a doctoral student's idea of a working-class candidate, not an actual working person's idea of one." David Brooks, NY Times
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention

“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Anarchistbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
David Brooks, lmao. Because if it's anyone who knows what the working class wants it's a lace stocking Republican
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:


"Understand your party's core challenge. All around the world parties on the left are losing because they have lost touch with the working class. These parties think they can reconnect with that class by swinging even further left. But Jeremy Corbyn in Britain and Bernie Sanders here are a doctoral student's idea of a working-class candidate, not an actual working person's idea of one." David Brooks, NY Times

I'm sure there are challenges that come with being further left than the norm, but the comparison of Corbyn and Sanders is not a strong one IMO. Corbyn was wildly unpopular for a host of reasons, in ways that Bernie Sanders is not.
Anarchistbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Corbyn's biggest problem was trying to finesse the Brexit vote and usurp the will of the people.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Question for BI Bernie supporters: Will you vote for Biden in the General Election if he is the Democratic nominee?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention

“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
Yogi14
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:

Question for BI Bernie supporters: Will you vote for Biden in the General Election if he is the Democratic nominee?
Question for BI Biden and Warren supporters? Will you vote for Sanders in the General Election if he is the Democratic nominee?
wifeisafurd
How long do you want to ignore this user?
OaktownBear said:

wifeisafurd said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Cal88 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

wifeisafurd said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:

"Nobody wants to work with him"
"He told me he didn't believe a woman could be President"

This is junior high school quality stuff. Is this really the best that the establishment has to throw against him?

Meanwhile his response "On a good day, my wife likes me" and then goes right back to discussing impeachment. When pressed for why she's still talking about 2016, he says "That's a good question. Ask her."

LOL
Let me add; "she is a Russian asset":

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard sues Hillary Clinton for alleged 'Russian asset' smear in 2020 Democratic presidential contest, claiming $50 million in damages https://cnb.cx/2NMtwc7

And good for Bernie.

Maybe women are upset by Clinton's loss, but the more she says, the scary she sounds if she had won.


Tulsi is proving that she really is more like a republican than a democrat by filing a frivolous lawsuit. This is Devin Nunes style.

Are Hillary and Warren also "more like republicans" when they smear Bernie?
No, I think Republicans love Bernie because he is less likely to beat Trump. And they benefit even if he loses because his bros would make it harder for the eventual nominee to get elected. You don't think Trump and Republicans favor Bernie because they think he would make a better POTUS do you?
I'm not a Bernie fan, but I'm willing to admit people really underestimate him. He has good potlical skills.
I don't really agree with this. People underestimate the power of Bernie's message. Unlike the mythology presented by many, poll after poll show a large majority of Americans think the wealthy should pay a lot more in taxes and that the wealthy get over on everyone else big time. (this idea that poor people are against taxing wealthy because they hope to be wealthy one day is completely unfounded).

In my opinion Bernie makes a lot of unforced errors that undercut him. Number 1 is calling himself a socialist for no damned reason. 1. He isn't one. 2. If he is one it is only in the sense of some European political reinterpretation of the word because they don't have the same taboo over that word that the US does. 3. He could have argued everything that he does and not be saddled with that baggage. If he just stuck to policy and didn't say "socialist", he'd have a lot more votes today from people who grew up being afraid of that word.

Another minor example was when he came out for allowing felons in prison to vote (not former felons who have done their time). What the hell was that for? It's not going to happen and it is deeply unpopular. You have to have the discipline to not talk about minor issues where you go very much against the grain.

Bernie is genuine. Bernie has been Bernie for a long time. He has a message that appeals to a lot of people. I see why you say he has skills, but if they were so great, he'd be leading this thing right now. His standing in the polls with the name recognition he had and coming off getting 43% on the anybody but Clinton vote is actually pretty poor. I think a lot of Warren's popularity in the summer is that people hoped she'd be Bernie with better political skills, but she turned out to be fake Bernie, so her popularity plummeted.

Frankly none of the Democratic candidates are great candidates. They all have major flaws. Of course, they will be running against a candidate who has a lot of major flaws.
I give Bernie more credit. He tends to portray the institutional Democratic and Republican Parties as corrupt and relentlessly sows suspicion about the motives and integrity of everyone who disagrees with him quite well, playing to the current anti-Washington thinking in voters. He treats the catastrophe of the 2016 election as a deserved rebuke to party leaders, making him seem like a more palatable candidate to beat Trump.. And he brushes aside successfully mountains of practical realities that others have spent years dealing with. Despite some of his rhetoric which attracts more idealistic voters his voting record shows a fairly unremarkable blue-state liberal who's good at winning elections and has extensive experience with the disappointing realities of the legislative process, and thus a willingness to successfully compromise to get some concessions.Sanders's actual record is that of a reasonably effective, reasonably pragmatic politician who has a quirky habit of referring to himself as a democratic socialist and taking some unique positions to get in the news, and then pushing mainstream legislation through. Need an amendment - give it to Bernie who can get things through the GOP. Want a firebrand, while Obama was in the White House, it was Sen. Elizabeth Warren who attracted the ire of administration officials and congressional leaders by blowing-up bipartisan deals. Bernie has managed to come-off as the left's leader, while staying an effective politician. He absolutely skewered Warren in this last go around, and Clinton still seems to be hurting for the number he did on her. I call that good political skills. Your last paragraph makes sense.

sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Anarchistbear said:

Corbyn's biggest problem was trying to finesse the Brexit vote and usurp the will of the people.
Yeah, Corbyn wasn't personally very anti-Brexit, but for this last election his party should have been. They needed a contrast against Johnson's message.
dajo9
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I will vote blue no matter who. I'm not sure why that's a hard question for some to answer.
Yogi14
How long do you want to ignore this user?
dajo9 said:

I will vote blue no matter who. I'm not sure why that's a hard question for some to answer.
Hillary Clinton found it a tough question to answer.
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I will absolutely vote for any Democrat over Trump.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Professor Turgeson Bear said:

bearister said:

Question for BI Bernie supporters: Will you vote for Biden in the General Election if he is the Democratic nominee?
Question for BI Biden and Warren supporters? Will you vote for Sanders in the General Election if he is the Democratic nominee?


Unfortunately I would have to. tRump a gangsta.

Bernie Sanders Voters Helped Trump Win and Here's Proof


https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320%3famp=1

Did enough Bernie Sanders supporters vote for Trump to cost Clinton the election? - The Washington Post


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/%3foutputType=amp
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention

“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
dajo9
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Professor Turgeson Bear said:

dajo9 said:

I will vote blue no matter who. I'm not sure why that's a hard question for some to answer.
Hillary Clinton found it a tough question to answer.


For 24 hours, lol. How about you?

At this point I am more confident that wifeisafurd and calbear93 will vote for the Dem nominee than I am Professor Turgeson will.
Yogi14
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:

bearister said:

Question for BI Bernie supporters: Will you vote for Biden in the General Election if he is the Democratic nominee?
Question for BI Biden and Warren supporters? Will you vote for Sanders in the General Election if he is the Democratic nominee?


Unfortunately I would have to. tRump a gangsta.

Bernie Sanders Voters Helped Trump Win and Here's Proof


https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320%3famp=1

Did enough Bernie Sanders supporters vote for Trump to cost Clinton the election? - The Washington Post


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/%3foutputType=amp
"There is no way to know whether 12 percent or 6 percent or some other estimate is The Truth, and there are enough differences among these surveys that we cannot easily pinpoint why the numbers differ. So we should take these estimates with some caution."

"So Sanders supporters were about as likely to vote for Trump as Rubio's supporters were to vote for Clinton, and far less likely than Kasich supporters were to vote for Clinton."

"24 percent of people who supported Clinton in the primary as of March 2008 then reported voting for McCain in the general election."

"Thus, the 6 percent or 12 percent of Sanders supporters who may have supported Trump does not look especially large in comparison with these other examples."

"Perhaps the most important feature of Sanders-Trump voters is this: They weren't really Democrats to begin with.

Of course, we know that many Sanders voters did not readily identify with the Democratic Party as of 2016, and Schaffner found that Sanders-Trump voters were even less likely to identify as Democrats. Sanders-Trump voters didn't much approve of Obama either."

"In short, it may be hard to know exactly how many Sanders-Trump voters there were, or whether they really cost Clinton the election. But it doesn't appear that many of them were predisposed to support Clinton in the first place."

Yogi14
How long do you want to ignore this user?
dajo9 said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:

dajo9 said:

I will vote blue no matter who. I'm not sure why that's a hard question for some to answer.
Hillary Clinton found it a tough question to answer.
For 24 hours, lol. How about you?

At this point I am more confident that wifeisafurd and calbear93 will vote for the Dem nominee than I am Professor Turgeson will.
Like I said, look the answer up yourself, Cal 88 2.0.

And LMAO at it taking her 24 hours to grudgingly concede that she'd support him. At least it was a shorter amount of time than it took her to cut her buddy Harvey Weinstein loose.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ronan-farrow-nbc-harvey-weinstein-investigation-timeline-2019-10#october-15-2019-farrows-book-catch-and-kill-lies-spies-and-a-conspiracy-to-protect-predators-is-released-by-little-brown-book-group-25

Quote:

Five days after The New York Times investigation on the movie producer's sexual misconduct was published in October 2017, Clinton issued a statement decrying his behavior.
Despite the fact that she knew of the allegations in advance, she still accepted his donations before the New York Times published their story.

Quote:

"However," he continued, "Lena Dunham and Tina Brown and others have given on the record interviews saying that they specifically warned Clinton's staff about Harvey Weinstein's reputation for predation in at least general terms. And said that he would likely be a liability."
As Hillary has shown, the only Democrats who care about party unity are the centrists, who want the more progressive part of the party to support them no matter what. But when it comes to her and her remaining bitterness at losing to a clown, she's quite willing to lob grenades.

If Sanders should somehow win the nomination, I look forward to seeing how much they care about party unity vs protected their corporate interests.
dimitrig
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Professor Turgeson Bear said:

bearister said:

Question for BI Bernie supporters: Will you vote for Biden in the General Election if he is the Democratic nominee?
Question for BI Biden and Warren supporters? Will you vote for Sanders in the General Election if he is the Democratic nominee?

I will vote for any of the (D) candidates over Trump. That is probably true of most of the people supporting any of the (D) candidates.

The bigger question is which of those candidates will inspire the most voter turnout at the polls and if that turnout is in the states where it needs to be.



Anarchistbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
There's way too much attention on two sides-41% of the country declares as independent and voter participation tells you that a large% is apathetic or has given up. 60%( Gallup poll) want an alternative to the two parties including 55% of democrats and 72% of independents. There are many sides not two

When AOC says Oh God," she said. "In any other country, Joe Biden and I would not be in the same party, but in America, we are," she makes the cardinal sin of voicing this..
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.