Screw the light weight meaningless sanctions. This is all out war on our democracy. Why can't we disrupt their butts?

U.S. Cybercom contemplates information warfare to counter Russian interference in 2020 election https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-cybercom-contemplates-information-warfare-to-counter-russian-interference-in-the-2020-election/2019/12/25/21bb246e-20e8-11ea-bed5-880264cc91a9_story.html


Bernie Sanders denounces Russia's reported efforts to aid his campaign live https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/feb/21/democrats-prepare-to-vote-in-nevada-amid-controversy-over-donald-trump-roger-stone-and-russia-


MSNBC host Lawrence O'Donnell declares Trump a 'Russian operative' with Putin as 'running mate' https://fxn.ws/37Mfy1d #FoxNews

Unleash the Dogs of Hell on the Russkies!

From CNN of all places:

Quote:

---

The Trump administration delivered lethal aid to Ukraine, which is locked in a proxy war with Russian-backed separatists. Washington is at odds with Moscow in a range of foreign-policy crises, from the conflict in Syria to political turmoil in Venezuela. And Trump withdrew the US from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, a move that drew condemnation from the Kremlin.

Russia continues to bear the costs of confronting Washington. The Treasury Department under Trump has continued to aggressively sanction Russia for its election meddling in 2016 and the occupation of Crimea in 2014. And the US joined with its allies in booting out dozens of Russian diplomats in the wake of the poisoning of a former Russian spy living in the United Kingdom.

---

Why would Russia prefer Trump over the other Democratic candidates?

Why the Russians still prefer Trump

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/02/21/why-russians-still-prefer-trump/%3foutputType=amp

Putin favors Trump. Trump favors Sanders. Russia favors Sanders. The Russian hysteria will soon come full circle and bite the Dems in the a$$.

What's really funny is that Bloomberg doesn't appear to know that Russian isn't socialist?

AunBear89 said:

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Chaos and poor management. A corrupt and clueless leader makes us weaker. You'd understand that if you ever managed to think about things for yourself rather than relying on "dope memes" for your information.

---

Chaos and poor management. A corrupt and clueless leader makes us weaker.

"Russia prefers any candidate that will create turmoil within the US or whose presence can be exploited to create that turmoil."

Well, Hillary checked that box because she is really hated by millions.....but tRump checked the additional boxes of:
1. Being a f@ucking moron, as Rex Tillerson said; and
2. Being heavily dependent on loaned Russian money.*


*The best part of that being you can't discharge a Russian loan in bankruptcy. After tRump leaves the Oval, if he defaults, the entire tRump family will be found at the bottom of an aqueduct shrink wrapped. Although my guess is that after at least 4 years of manipulating the stock market with his tweets and making sweet foreign deals with the muscle only a POTUS can pack, his unreported net worth will be north of $200 billion, you know, like Putin's and Gaddafi's ( before he took that sharp instrument to his.....)

golden sloth said:

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BearForce2 said:

---

From CNN of all places:

Quote:

---

The Trump administration delivered lethal aid to Ukraine, which is locked in a proxy war with Russian-backed separatists. Washington is at odds with Moscow in a range of foreign-policy crises, from the conflict in Syria to political turmoil in Venezuela. And Trump withdrew the US from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, a move that drew condemnation from the Kremlin.

Russia continues to bear the costs of confronting Washington. The Treasury Department under Trump has continued to aggressively sanction Russia for its election meddling in 2016 and the occupation of Crimea in 2014. And the US joined with its allies in booting out dozens of Russian diplomats in the wake of the poisoning of a former Russian spy living in the United Kingdom.

---

Why would Russia prefer Trump over the other Democratic candidates?

---

Most of the time I don't respond to you because you are primarily a troll. But as an honest, nonpartisan, genuine answer to your question I will provide two points.

1. Russia prefers any candidate that will create turmoil within the US or whose presence can be exploited to create that turmoil. Regardless, of whether or not you agree with him, Trump is a polarizing figure, and he creates and exacerbates the inner conflicts within our own country. If the country is fighting itself, it can't or won't fight or prevent Russia from expanding its power or influence.

2. Russia also prefers populist candidates because if America withdraws from the world stage either in reducing its military presence or through scaling back trade relations and economic cooperation, it will allow Russia to fill the power vacuum (as has happened in Syria) or will free more countries from the soft power influence/entanglements of needing US foreign trade, meaning they are more susceptible to Russian influence or no one will defend the weak countries if Russia starts bullying them.

Trump and Bernie fulfill both of those preferences through either their abrasive, conflict oriented personality, or their socialist revolution oriented ideology. I don't think Russia really cares about American politics as much as they want America to turn on itself and stop being the world police.

---

Couldn't read the Washington Post article but if these points mirror them, than it sort of makes sense. However, I'm not clear how Russia has benefited, based on the snippet from CNN, it doesn't look like the last couple of years were favorable to them. If anything, Americans are more unified when it comes to not trusting Russia.

BearForce2 said:

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golden sloth said:

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BearForce2 said:

---

From CNN of all places:

Quote:

---

The Trump administration delivered lethal aid to Ukraine, which is locked in a proxy war with Russian-backed separatists. Washington is at odds with Moscow in a range of foreign-policy crises, from the conflict in Syria to political turmoil in Venezuela. And Trump withdrew the US from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, a move that drew condemnation from the Kremlin.

Russia continues to bear the costs of confronting Washington. The Treasury Department under Trump has continued to aggressively sanction Russia for its election meddling in 2016 and the occupation of Crimea in 2014. And the US joined with its allies in booting out dozens of Russian diplomats in the wake of the poisoning of a former Russian spy living in the United Kingdom.

---

Why would Russia prefer Trump over the other Democratic candidates?

---

Most of the time I don't respond to you because you are primarily a troll. But as an honest, nonpartisan, genuine answer to your question I will provide two points.

1. Russia prefers any candidate that will create turmoil within the US or whose presence can be exploited to create that turmoil. Regardless, of whether or not you agree with him, Trump is a polarizing figure, and he creates and exacerbates the inner conflicts within our own country. If the country is fighting itself, it can't or won't fight or prevent Russia from expanding its power or influence.

2. Russia also prefers populist candidates because if America withdraws from the world stage either in reducing its military presence or through scaling back trade relations and economic cooperation, it will allow Russia to fill the power vacuum (as has happened in Syria) or will free more countries from the soft power influence/entanglements of needing US foreign trade, meaning they are more susceptible to Russian influence or no one will defend the weak countries if Russia starts bullying them.

Trump and Bernie fulfill both of those preferences through either their abrasive, conflict oriented personality, or their socialist revolution oriented ideology. I don't think Russia really cares about American politics as much as they want America to turn on itself and stop being the world police.

---

Couldn't read the Washington Post article but if these points mirror them, than it sort of makes sense. However, I'm not clear how Russia has benefited, based on the snippet from CNN, it doesn't look like the last couple of years were favorable to them. If anything, Americans are more unified when it comes to not trusting Russia.

---

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/6/17656996/trump-republican-party-russia-rather-democrat-ohio

blungld said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Most of the time I don't respond to you because you are primarily a troll. But as an honest, nonpartisan, genuine answer to your question I will provide two points.

1. Russia prefers any candidate that will create turmoil within the US or whose presence can be exploited to create that turmoil. Regardless, of whether or not you agree with him, Trump is a polarizing figure, and he creates and exacerbates the inner conflicts within our own country. If the country is fighting itself, it can't or won't fight or prevent Russia from expanding its power or influence.

2. Russia also prefers populist candidates because if America withdraws from the world stage either in reducing its military presence or through scaling back trade relations and economic cooperation, it will allow Russia to fill the power vacuum (as has happened in Syria) or will free more countries from the soft power influence/entanglements of needing US foreign trade, meaning they are more susceptible to Russian influence or no one will defend the weak countries if Russia starts bullying them.

Trump and Bernie fulfill both of those preferences through either their abrasive, conflict oriented personality, or their socialist revolution oriented ideology. I don't think Russia really cares about American politics as much as they want America to turn on itself and stop being the world police.

---

I think Russian goals are fourfold in their election meddling on all sides:
1) pit Trump against someone they think he can beat especially when their propaganda will so neatly work against the Trump constituency: Sanders is a socialist! (ironically sent by socialists)

2) Flex their influence and control so that winner is in some way beholden and they have made themselves a part of the process to both exert control and discredit democracy

3) Decrease turnout because Americans don't trust the election is real and adds illegitimacy around the result and general despair

4) Gives Trump an argument if he loses, Sanders cheated with Russians I better stay in office.

All Americans should be storming the gates to force government and corporations to institute election security and put a stop to foreign propaganda/interference. How is this even a partisan issue? Have we sunk so low that under Trump it is now okay for enemy states to govern us and for traitors to prosper? Mitch is blocking legislation. Trump is promoting false narratives and purging competency and non-loyalists. This is just not America, it's not.

---

Election security. Good idea. Everyone voting should have to show a government issued ID.

bearister said:

---

"Russia prefers any candidate that will create turmoil within the US or whose presence can be exploited to create that turmoil."

Well, Hillary checked that box because she is really hated by millions.....but tRump checked the additional boxes of:
1. Being a f@ucking moron, as Rex Tillerson said; and
2. Being heavily dependent on loaned Russian money.*


*The best part of that being you can't discharge a Russian loan in bankruptcy. After tRump leaves the Oval, if he defaults, the entire tRump family will be found at the bottom of an aqueduct shrink wrapped. Although my guess is that after at least 4 years of manipulating the stock market with his tweets and making sweet foreign deals with the muscle only a POTUS can pack, his unreported net worth will be north of $200 billion, you know, like Putin's and Gaddafi's ( before he took that sharp instrument to his.....)

---

All of that, plus they have that "pee tape" to hold over his head.

oski003 said:

---

blungld said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Most of the time I don't respond to you because you are primarily a troll. But as an honest, nonpartisan, genuine answer to your question I will provide two points.

1. Russia prefers any candidate that will create turmoil within the US or whose presence can be exploited to create that turmoil. Regardless, of whether or not you agree with him, Trump is a polarizing figure, and he creates and exacerbates the inner conflicts within our own country. If the country is fighting itself, it can't or won't fight or prevent Russia from expanding its power or influence.

2. Russia also prefers populist candidates because if America withdraws from the world stage either in reducing its military presence or through scaling back trade relations and economic cooperation, it will allow Russia to fill the power vacuum (as has happened in Syria) or will free more countries from the soft power influence/entanglements of needing US foreign trade, meaning they are more susceptible to Russian influence or no one will defend the weak countries if Russia starts bullying them.

Trump and Bernie fulfill both of those preferences through either their abrasive, conflict oriented personality, or their socialist revolution oriented ideology. I don't think Russia really cares about American politics as much as they want America to turn on itself and stop being the world police.

---

I think Russian goals are fourfold in their election meddling on all sides:
1) pit Trump against someone they think he can beat especially when their propaganda will so neatly work against the Trump constituency: Sanders is a socialist! (ironically sent by socialists)

2) Flex their influence and control so that winner is in some way beholden and they have made themselves a part of the process to both exert control and discredit democracy

3) Decrease turnout because Americans don't trust the election is real and adds illegitimacy around the result and general despair

4) Gives Trump an argument if he loses, Sanders cheated with Russians I better stay in office.

All Americans should be storming the gates to force government and corporations to institute election security and put a stop to foreign propaganda/interference. How is this even a partisan issue? Have we sunk so low that under Trump it is now okay for enemy states to govern us and for traitors to prosper? Mitch is blocking legislation. Trump is promoting false narratives and purging competency and non-loyalists. This is just not America, it's not.

---

Election security. Good idea. Everyone voting should have to show a government issued ID.

---

On the other hand, those on the left think that's racist.

oski003 said:

---

Election security. Good idea. Everyone voting should have to show a government issued ID.

---

I have no problem with that, but then make it very easy for the elderly and/or disabled and/or homeless who don't drive to get a non-driving photo ID. The long lines at the DMV are a deterrent. Issue them in a separate office with quick processing.

Professor Grubbly-Plank said:

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oski003 said:

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Election security. Good idea. Everyone voting should have to show a government issued ID.

---

I have no problem with that, but then make it very easy for the elderly and/or disabled and/or homeless who don't drive to get a non-driving photo ID. The long lines at the DMV are a deterrent. Issue them in a separate office with quick processing.

---

I hate the DMV just as much as anybody, and I hate excuse monsters more.

https://www.scpr.org/news/2016/01/08/56603/homeless-people-can-get-free-ids-under-new-state-l/

heartofthebear said:

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Folks Putin doesn't represent Russia.
He represents Russian oligarchs.
It is the oligarchs in the US and Russia, as well as other places that are engineering this coup on our Democracy.
Trump is just a puppet.

---

You got this from Vox again?

oski003 said:

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Election security. Good idea. Everyone voting should have to show a government issued ID.

---

How will voter ID improve election security? Boris and Natasha aren't showing up dressed in MAGA hats to vote fraudulently.

I know you are smart enough to understand that the reason republicans prefer voter aid is to suppress turnout but it bears repeating that Trump literally fired the DNI over this and will likely fire the person at the DNI in charge of election security with nary a peep of criticism from Republicans.

I remember the crazy right wing consipiracy theory that Obama was going to cancel the election, but would anyone really be surprised if Trump were dumb enough to try? I am sure we will find out that he's asked people if he had to allow the election to occur just like he asked if he could have sharks at the border or if he can override the FCPA to allow bribes again.

BearForce2 said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Folks Putin doesn't represent Russia.
He represents Russian oligarchs.
It is the oligarchs in the US and Russia, as well as other places that are engineering this coup on our Democracy.
Trump is just a puppet.

---

You got this from Vox again?

---

A source you'll never have, deductive reasoning.

Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

---

Election security. Good idea. Everyone voting should have to show a government issued ID.

---

How will voter ID improve election security? Boris and Natasha aren't showing up dressed in MAGA hats to vote fraudulently.

I know you are smart enough to understand that the reason republicans prefer voter aid is to suppress turnout but it bears repeating that Trump literally fired the DNI over this and will likely fire the person at the DNI in charge of election security with nary a peep of criticism from Republicans.

I remember the crazy right wing consipiracy theory that Obama was going to cancel the election, but would anyone really be surprised if Trump were dumb enough to try? I am sure we will find out that he's asked people if he had to allow the election to occur just like he asked if he could have sharks at the border or if he can override the FCPA to allow bribes again.

---

Every individual who is eligible to vote should have the opportunity to do so. It is equally important, however, that the votes of eligible voters are not stolen or diluted by a fraudulent or bogus vote cast by an ineligible or imaginary voter.

Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Election security. Good idea. Everyone voting should have to show a government issued ID.

---

How will voter ID improve election security? Boris and Natasha aren't showing up dressed in MAGA hats to vote fraudulently.

I know you are smart enough to understand that the reason republicans prefer voter aid is to suppress turnout but it bears repeating that Trump literally fired the DNI over this and will likely fire the person at the DNI in charge of election security with nary a peep of criticism from Republicans.

I remember the crazy right wing consipiracy theory that Obama was going to cancel the election, but would anyone really be surprised if Trump were dumb enough to try? I am sure we will find out that he's asked people if he had to allow the election to occur just like he asked if he could have sharks at the border or if he can override the FCPA to allow bribes again.

---

Every individual who is eligible to vote should have the opportunity to do so. It is equally important, however, that the votes of eligible voters are not stolen or diluted by a fraudulent or bogus vote cast by an ineligible or imaginary voter.

---

When you say the two things are "equally important", how do you define "equal"? All available evidence shows that voter suppression from voter ID far outweighs any in person voter fraud. The Republicans who are pushing voter ID know why they are doing it (see North Carolina for evidence) so why don't you?

Election interference isn't done through in person voter fraud. Again, this is all well known.

So spare us the false equivalence. Republicans no longer have the will of the people so they have to resort to stealing elections to maintain as much of their remaining power for as long as they can. Not unlike the Boomer population as a whole.

---

There is no such thing as voter suppression by requiring voter ID. If someone isn't capable of getting or keeping a government issued photo Id, despite all of the public and private resources available, they shouldn't vote. It is their choice or lack of competence that provides the circumstances for this "suppression."

On the other hand, fraudulent votes dillute the votes of those who actually are responsible enough to vote.

Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Election security. Good idea. Everyone voting should have to show a government issued ID.

---

How will voter ID improve election security? Boris and Natasha aren't showing up dressed in MAGA hats to vote fraudulently.

I know you are smart enough to understand that the reason republicans prefer voter aid is to suppress turnout but it bears repeating that Trump literally fired the DNI over this and will likely fire the person at the DNI in charge of election security with nary a peep of criticism from Republicans.

I remember the crazy right wing consipiracy theory that Obama was going to cancel the election, but would anyone really be surprised if Trump were dumb enough to try? I am sure we will find out that he's asked people if he had to allow the election to occur just like he asked if he could have sharks at the border or if he can override the FCPA to allow bribes again.

---

Every individual who is eligible to vote should have the opportunity to do so. It is equally important, however, that the votes of eligible voters are not stolen or diluted by a fraudulent or bogus vote cast by an ineligible or imaginary voter.

---

When you say the two things are "equally important", how do you define "equal"? All available evidence shows that voter suppression from voter ID far outweighs any in person voter fraud. The Republicans who are pushing voter ID know why they are doing it (see North Carolina for evidence) so why don't you?

Election interference isn't done through in person voter fraud. Again, this is all well known.

So spare us the false equivalence. Republicans no longer have the will of the people so they have to resort to stealing elections to maintain as much of their remaining power for as long as they can. Not unlike the Boomer population as a whole.

---

There is no such thing as voter suppression by requiring voter ID. If someone isn't capable of getting or keeping a government issued photo Id, despite all of the public and private resources available, they shouldn't vote. It is their choice or lack of competence that provides the circumstances for this "suppression."

On the other hand, fraudulent votes dillute the votes of those who actually are responsible enough to vote.

---

I feel sorry for you if you truly believe that. You know that's just a cover story right?

There is a reason that Texas allowed concealed weapons permits but not student IDs to serve as voter ID. There is also a reason that Trump's joke of a voter fraud commission disbanded without having found any voter fraud.

I get why Republican leaders perpetrate this false narrative to remain in power but don't insult our intelligence by pretending the justifications are legitimate.

And, of course, if you've actually fallen for the disinformation, bless your heart.

---

I feel sorry for you if you don't feel that voter fraud exists that is or could be prevented by requiring ID. It is common sense, and I have personally seen voter fraud.

Bless your clueless heart.

We should push to eliminate all types of voter fraud.


There are many ways for criminals to steal votes and change the outcome of an election. These include:

Impersonation fraud at the polls:Voting in the name of other legitimate voters and voters who have died, moved away, or lost their right to vote because they are felons, but remain registered.

False registrations: Voting under fraudulent voter registrations that either use a phony name and a real or fake address or claim residence in a particular jurisdiction where the registered voter does not actually live and is not entitled to vote.

Duplicate voting: Registering in multiple locations and voting in the same election in more than one jurisdiction or state.

Fraudulent use of absentee ballots: Requesting absentee ballots and voting without the knowledge of the actual voter; or obtaining the absentee ballot from a voter and either filling it in directly and forging the voter's signature or illegally telling the voter who to vote for.

Buying votes: Paying voters to cast either an in-person or absentee ballot for a particular candidate.

Illegal "assistance" at the polls: Forcing or intimidating votersparticularly the elderly, disabled, illiterate, and those for whom English is a second languageto vote for particular candidates while supposedly providing them with "assistance."

Ineligible voting: Illegal registration and voting by individuals who are not U.S. citizens, are convicted felons, or are otherwise not eligible to vote.

Altering the vote count: Changing the actual vote count either in a precinct or at the central location where votes are counted.

Ballot petition fraud: Forging the signatures of registered voters on the ballot petitions that must be filed with election officials in some states for a candidate or issue to be listed on the official ballot.

Trump has owned casinos. Slot machines can be "set" to provide any percentage payout. Hmmm...

I don't have a lot of confidence that the 2020 election is going to be any more fair than the 2016 one was.