people are now breaking into stores that are closed.



its too many hungry and poor people. **** is about to get really ugly.

UrsaMajor said:

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GBear4Life said:

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Professor Harold Hill said:

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GBear4Life said:

---

Professor Harold Hill said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

Professor David Romer said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

Professor David Romer said:

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GBear4Life said:

---

Let me quit my job, foreclose on my home and squat in front of your house in my own personal meth safe place. And then you go and show me your compassion, ok?

---

You need to move to a better neighborhood. Number of drug addicts squatting in front of my house since I bought it equals zero.

---

So if it's not a problem YOU deal with it either doesn't exist or isn't a "problem"?

Typical left-wing narcissist

No crack heads where I live, but I did live in SF for 4 years...

---

I'd say the number of meth head squatting in front of houses is fairly low.

In the city? Different situation. Best solution? Arrest them, send them to some place to get off meth that isn't jail.

---

Involuntary "rehab" is a form of "prison". Morever the naive assumption that they all want help. IF they wanted help, there are resources they can access voluntarily. But they have rules. And you have to want help.

---

At the point where you're living homeless in the city, you've abandoned your right to choose. You're a public nuisance and a health hazard.

---

Correct. I agree. So you segregate them from the community -- with a prison of one form or another.

---

Until they're off the meth. Then you have to figure out how to reintegrate without them repeating the cycle.

---

They won't be. That's the point. If they're mentally healthy, what do you mean reintegrate them into society? That's on them. Left wingers treat drug addicts like minorities: weak, invariably co-dependent.

---

So are you suggesting life sentences for being homeless?

As for a prison "of one sort or another," there's already a model for that: Germany in the 30's - 40's.

---

After a few prison sentences -- aka 3 strikes law -- yes. You give every individual in society a few chances -- after that you throw away the prison cell key. You don't play merry go around with repeat offenders. There are people committing more severe crimes than illegally occupying public property that have a rap sheet a mile long and convictions a mile long who continue to be let out in society. Enough. Why? Because the people who are subjected to this and victims of these offenders are often those least likely with the means to separate themselves form this.

It's easy for a left-wing narcissist to parade around cloaked in empathy in a clean suburb when they score the prestige from the virtue signaling as they victimize communities they claim to care about.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-democrats-to-cancel-student-loan-payments-and-cancel-10000-in-debt-164550986.html

GBear4Life said:

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UrsaMajor said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

Professor Harold Hill said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

Professor Harold Hill said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

Professor David Romer said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

Professor David Romer said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

Let me quit my job, foreclose on my home and squat in front of your house in my own personal meth safe place. And then you go and show me your compassion, ok?

---

You need to move to a better neighborhood. Number of drug addicts squatting in front of my house since I bought it equals zero.

---

So if it's not a problem YOU deal with it either doesn't exist or isn't a "problem"?

Typical left-wing narcissist

No crack heads where I live, but I did live in SF for 4 years...

---

I'd say the number of meth head squatting in front of houses is fairly low.

In the city? Different situation. Best solution? Arrest them, send them to some place to get off meth that isn't jail.

---

Involuntary "rehab" is a form of "prison". Morever the naive assumption that they all want help. IF they wanted help, there are resources they can access voluntarily. But they have rules. And you have to want help.

---

At the point where you're living homeless in the city, you've abandoned your right to choose. You're a public nuisance and a health hazard.

---

Correct. I agree. So you segregate them from the community -- with a prison of one form or another.

---

Until they're off the meth. Then you have to figure out how to reintegrate without them repeating the cycle.

---

They won't be. That's the point. If they're mentally healthy, what do you mean reintegrate them into society? That's on them. Left wingers treat drug addicts like minorities: weak, invariably co-dependent.

---

So are you suggesting life sentences for being homeless?

As for a prison "of one sort or another," there's already a model for that: Germany in the 30's - 40's.

---

After a few prison sentences -- aka 3 strikes law -- yes. You give every individual in society a few chances -- after that you throw away the prison cell key. You don't play merry go around with repeat offenders. There are people committing more severe crimes than illegally occupying public property that have a rap sheet a mile long and convictions a mile long who continue to be let out in society. Enough. Why? Because the people who are subjected to this and victims of these offenders are often those least likely with the means to separate themselves form this.

It's easy for a left-wing narcissist to parade around cloaked in empathy in a clean suburb when they score the prestige from the virtue signaling as they victimize communities they claim to care about.

---

I suppose we should add Jews, gays, gypsies, and the disabled. And Japanese, of course.

GB stop smoking whatever you are smoking

going4roses said:

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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-democrats-to-cancel-student-loan-payments-and-cancel-10000-in-debt-164550986.html

---

I hope you can stand back and see the unfairness in these kinds of proposals GFR. What about the guy who didn't go to college but has personal loan debt? What about the students who used their loans for something other than college tuition (cars, ski trips, etc.)? And most of all, what about the guy who saved like crazy in summer jobs so he wouldn't have to borrow via student loans? What does he get?

What is the process by which these politicians go about picking and choosing beneficiaries?

LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-democrats-to-cancel-student-loan-payments-and-cancel-10000-in-debt-164550986.html

---

I hope you can stand back and see the unfairness in these kinds of proposals GFR. What about the guy who didn't go to college but has personal loan debt? What about the students who used their loans for something other than college tuition (cars, ski trips, etc.)? And most of all, what about the guy who saved like crazy in summer jobs so he wouldn't have to borrow via student loans? What does he get?

What is the process by which these politicians go about picking and choosing beneficiaries?

---

Well I'm super biased. Student loan stands at 49k for 6 semesters at SF State. So anything that helps me become a positive to society vs a negative I'm for it.

UrsaMajor said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

UrsaMajor said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

Professor Harold Hill said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

Professor Harold Hill said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

Professor David Romer said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

Professor David Romer said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

Let me quit my job, foreclose on my home and squat in front of your house in my own personal meth safe place. And then you go and show me your compassion, ok?

---

You need to move to a better neighborhood. Number of drug addicts squatting in front of my house since I bought it equals zero.

---

So if it's not a problem YOU deal with it either doesn't exist or isn't a "problem"?

Typical left-wing narcissist

No crack heads where I live, but I did live in SF for 4 years...

---

I'd say the number of meth head squatting in front of houses is fairly low.

In the city? Different situation. Best solution? Arrest them, send them to some place to get off meth that isn't jail.

---

Involuntary "rehab" is a form of "prison". Morever the naive assumption that they all want help. IF they wanted help, there are resources they can access voluntarily. But they have rules. And you have to want help.

---

At the point where you're living homeless in the city, you've abandoned your right to choose. You're a public nuisance and a health hazard.

---

Correct. I agree. So you segregate them from the community -- with a prison of one form or another.

---

Until they're off the meth. Then you have to figure out how to reintegrate without them repeating the cycle.

---

They won't be. That's the point. If they're mentally healthy, what do you mean reintegrate them into society? That's on them. Left wingers treat drug addicts like minorities: weak, invariably co-dependent.

---

So are you suggesting life sentences for being homeless?

As for a prison "of one sort or another," there's already a model for that: Germany in the 30's - 40's.

---

After a few prison sentences -- aka 3 strikes law -- yes. You give every individual in society a few chances -- after that you throw away the prison cell key. You don't play merry go around with repeat offenders. There are people committing more severe crimes than illegally occupying public property that have a rap sheet a mile long and convictions a mile long who continue to be let out in society. Enough. Why? Because the people who are subjected to this and victims of these offenders are often those least likely with the means to separate themselves form this.

It's easy for a left-wing narcissist to parade around cloaked in empathy in a clean suburb when they score the prestige from the virtue signaling as they victimize communities they claim to care about.

---

I suppose we should add Jews, gays, gypsies, and the disabled. And Japanese, of course.

---

So you're making this a race thing now? Cool beans dude.

going4roses said:

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LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-democrats-to-cancel-student-loan-payments-and-cancel-10000-in-debt-164550986.html

---

I hope you can stand back and see the unfairness in these kinds of proposals GFR. What about the guy who didn't go to college but has personal loan debt? What about the students who used their loans for something other than college tuition (cars, ski trips, etc.)? And most of all, what about the guy who saved like crazy in summer jobs so he wouldn't have to borrow via student loans? What does he get?

What is the process by which these politicians go about picking and choosing beneficiaries?

---

Well I'm super biased. Student loan stands at 49k for 6 semesters at SF State. So anything that helps me become a positive to society vs a negative I'm for it.

---

49k for 3 years at SF State?

LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-democrats-to-cancel-student-loan-payments-and-cancel-10000-in-debt-164550986.html

---

I hope you can stand back and see the unfairness in these kinds of proposals GFR. What about the guy who didn't go to college but has personal loan debt? What about the students who used their loans for something other than college tuition (cars, ski trips, etc.)? And most of all, what about the guy who saved like crazy in summer jobs so he wouldn't have to borrow via student loans? What does he get?

What is the process by which these politicians go about picking and choosing beneficiaries?

---

I am not for forgiving debt. I am for suspending payments which is the main piece of the proposal. I would also be for the government figuring out some way to work with the banks to suspend mortgage payments for those whose jobs are put on hold during the coronavirus. The bottom line is the economy is on pause. If everyone who does not get a pay check during this time period has all of their debts go into default, we are screwed.

I'm not saying pay the debts. I'm saying freeze it now and let them start from this point when the crisis passes.

going4roses said:

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GB stop smoking whatever you are smoking

---

You financed 50k on the backs of your fellow Americans that you're hoping not to pay back.

Pass the doobie to the left hand side.

I just want criminals segregated from the public.

GBear4Life said:

---

going4roses said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-democrats-to-cancel-student-loan-payments-and-cancel-10000-in-debt-164550986.html

---

I hope you can stand back and see the unfairness in these kinds of proposals GFR. What about the guy who didn't go to college but has personal loan debt? What about the students who used their loans for something other than college tuition (cars, ski trips, etc.)? And most of all, what about the guy who saved like crazy in summer jobs so he wouldn't have to borrow via student loans? What does he get?

What is the process by which these politicians go about picking and choosing beneficiaries?

---

Well I'm super biased. Student loan stands at 49k for 6 semesters at SF State. So anything that helps me become a positive to society vs a negative I'm for it.

---

49k for 3 years at SF State?

---

Total cost of attendance per year for SF State living on campus is $27K, Off campus is $28,700. Tuition alone is $7300 per year.

You guys really don't know how much college costs, do you?

By the way, Berkeley is $35K per year with tuition over $14K

OaktownBear said:

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GBear4Life said:

---

going4roses said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-democrats-to-cancel-student-loan-payments-and-cancel-10000-in-debt-164550986.html

---

I hope you can stand back and see the unfairness in these kinds of proposals GFR. What about the guy who didn't go to college but has personal loan debt? What about the students who used their loans for something other than college tuition (cars, ski trips, etc.)? And most of all, what about the guy who saved like crazy in summer jobs so he wouldn't have to borrow via student loans? What does he get?

What is the process by which these politicians go about picking and choosing beneficiaries?

---

Well I'm super biased. Student loan stands at 49k for 6 semesters at SF State. So anything that helps me become a positive to society vs a negative I'm for it.

---

49k for 3 years at SF State?

---

Total cost of attendance per year for SF State living on campus is $27K, Off campus is $28,700. Tuition alone is $7300 per year.

You guys really don't know how much college costs, do you?

By the way, Berkeley is $35K per year with tuition over $14K

---

Who da fuq lives on campus?

Can we stop lumping tuition with room and board?

going4roses said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-democrats-to-cancel-student-loan-payments-and-cancel-10000-in-debt-164550986.html

---

I hope you can stand back and see the unfairness in these kinds of proposals GFR. What about the guy who didn't go to college but has personal loan debt? What about the students who used their loans for something other than college tuition (cars, ski trips, etc.)? And most of all, what about the guy who saved like crazy in summer jobs so he wouldn't have to borrow via student loans? What does he get?

What is the process by which these politicians go about picking and choosing beneficiaries?

---

Well I'm super biased. Student loan stands at 49k for 6 semesters at SF State. So anything that helps me become a positive to society vs a negative I'm for it.

---

I appreciate your honesty GFR! Very refreshing. As I have said on this board countless times, we vote with our wallets, now don't we? You think sly old Mrs. Warren didn't know this when she brought up student loan forgiveness way back when? Pretty slick.

Now, not to get too personal here, but financial aid in this state is oh so generous. In fact, 57% of California college students pay no tuition at all! That doesn't count the ones that get most or some of their tuition paid by financial aid. Also, at least for UC students, the average balance for students after 4 years--for those that do have loans--is about 22k. So I'm curious: If you did not have the money to pay up front for school, why didn't some financial aid come through for you so that you didn't have to finance it all through loans?

I perfectly understand if you don't want to answer.

OaktownBear said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-democrats-to-cancel-student-loan-payments-and-cancel-10000-in-debt-164550986.html

---

I hope you can stand back and see the unfairness in these kinds of proposals GFR. What about the guy who didn't go to college but has personal loan debt? What about the students who used their loans for something other than college tuition (cars, ski trips, etc.)? And most of all, what about the guy who saved like crazy in summer jobs so he wouldn't have to borrow via student loans? What does he get?

What is the process by which these politicians go about picking and choosing beneficiaries?

---

I am not for forgiving debt. I am for suspending payments which is the main piece of the proposal. I would also be for the government figuring out some way to work with the banks to suspend mortgage payments for those whose jobs are put on hold during the coronavirus. The bottom line is the economy is on pause. If everyone who does not get a pay check during this time period has all of their debts go into default, we are screwed.

I'm not saying pay the debts. I'm saying freeze it now and let them start from this point when the crisis passes.

---

Yet another sane, level-headed, and dare I say center-right position aired by Oaktown.

GBear4Life said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

going4roses said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-democrats-to-cancel-student-loan-payments-and-cancel-10000-in-debt-164550986.html

---

I hope you can stand back and see the unfairness in these kinds of proposals GFR. What about the guy who didn't go to college but has personal loan debt? What about the students who used their loans for something other than college tuition (cars, ski trips, etc.)? And most of all, what about the guy who saved like crazy in summer jobs so he wouldn't have to borrow via student loans? What does he get?

What is the process by which these politicians go about picking and choosing beneficiaries?

---

Well I'm super biased. Student loan stands at 49k for 6 semesters at SF State. So anything that helps me become a positive to society vs a negative I'm for it.

---

49k for 3 years at SF State?

---

Total cost of attendance per year for SF State living on campus is $27K, Off campus is $28,700. Tuition alone is $7300 per year.

You guys really don't know how much college costs, do you?

By the way, Berkeley is $35K per year with tuition over $14K

---

Who da fuq lives on campus?

Can we stop lumping tuition with room and board?

---

4000 students there live on campus. Financial aid at pretty much every school is based on cost of attendance which includes room and board. You find it easy to fully support oneself in the bay area with a job you can do while being a full time college student? I would say $21K in room and board in the Bay Area is pretty paltry.

OaktownBear said:

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GBear4Life said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

going4roses said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-democrats-to-cancel-student-loan-payments-and-cancel-10000-in-debt-164550986.html

---

I hope you can stand back and see the unfairness in these kinds of proposals GFR. What about the guy who didn't go to college but has personal loan debt? What about the students who used their loans for something other than college tuition (cars, ski trips, etc.)? And most of all, what about the guy who saved like crazy in summer jobs so he wouldn't have to borrow via student loans? What does he get?

What is the process by which these politicians go about picking and choosing beneficiaries?

---

Well I'm super biased. Student loan stands at 49k for 6 semesters at SF State. So anything that helps me become a positive to society vs a negative I'm for it.

---

49k for 3 years at SF State?

---

Total cost of attendance per year for SF State living on campus is $27K, Off campus is $28,700. Tuition alone is $7300 per year.

You guys really don't know how much college costs, do you?

By the way, Berkeley is $35K per year with tuition over $14K

---

Who da fuq lives on campus?

Can we stop lumping tuition with room and board?

---

4000 students there live on campus. Financial aid at pretty much every school is based on cost of attendance which includes room and board. You find it easy to fully support oneself in the bay area with a job you can do while being a full time college student? I would say $21K in room and board in the Bay Area is pretty paltry.

---

Who is entitled to go to school without family to live with?

Financial Aid is a racket. Get a job while you go to school. Don't expect to be forgiven cuz you felt entitled to finance an overpriced education

Officially all California.

I'd like to think that the Governor Newsom's referring to California as a "nation state" (twice!) was simply wishful thinking, rather than ignorance.

1 billion is not enough

GBear4Life said:

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OaktownBear said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

going4roses said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-democrats-to-cancel-student-loan-payments-and-cancel-10000-in-debt-164550986.html

---

I hope you can stand back and see the unfairness in these kinds of proposals GFR. What about the guy who didn't go to college but has personal loan debt? What about the students who used their loans for something other than college tuition (cars, ski trips, etc.)? And most of all, what about the guy who saved like crazy in summer jobs so he wouldn't have to borrow via student loans? What does he get?

What is the process by which these politicians go about picking and choosing beneficiaries?

---

Well I'm super biased. Student loan stands at 49k for 6 semesters at SF State. So anything that helps me become a positive to society vs a negative I'm for it.

---

49k for 3 years at SF State?

---

Total cost of attendance per year for SF State living on campus is $27K, Off campus is $28,700. Tuition alone is $7300 per year.

You guys really don't know how much college costs, do you?

By the way, Berkeley is $35K per year with tuition over $14K

---

Who da fuq lives on campus?

Can we stop lumping tuition with room and board?

---

4000 students there live on campus. Financial aid at pretty much every school is based on cost of attendance which includes room and board. You find it easy to fully support oneself in the bay area with a job you can do while being a full time college student? I would say $21K in room and board in the Bay Area is pretty paltry.

---

Who is entitled to go to school without family to live with?

Financial Aid is a racket. Get a job while you go to school. Don't expect to be forgiven cuz you felt entitled to finance an overpriced education

---

I'm curious: do you favor free public K-12 education or do you think that those whose parents can't afford it should not go? What in your view is the difference?

Financial aid is racket but it was the only option. for some it's not and they (my classmates work and go to school to "better themselves and make a living wage" ) present tense 7 out of 10 are now not working.

The fact that this system charges one for what is now necessary to survive says more about the dynamics of the financial and political (machine) and the people who gain from it.

Go!Bears said:

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GBear4Life said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Professor David Romer said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

Let me quit my job, foreclose on my home and squat in front of your house in my own personal meth safe place. And then you go and show me your compassion, ok?

---

You need to move to a better neighborhood. Number of drug addicts squatting in front of my house since I bought it equals zero.

---

Yes, and when that changes you will change your tune in a Wuhan minute.

---

Left-wing narcissists don't care about the adverse impacts of their "virtue" and "compassion" -- because they always adversely impact other people and other communities.

---

Right wing narcissists are so much better.

---

Their narcissism typically manifests in different ways. Not sure which is worse.

K-12 should be free to everyone but should also be used to determine if someone should go to college. Junior college is is fairly inexpensive and can assist those who don't qualify out of high school...give them a second chance. I think it's ridiculous to automatically assume a college education is a right for everyone. A simple BA is so watered down today anyway it's practically worthless. I have friends who went to trade schools and make 2-3 times what others with a BA make.
Everyone believes a BA is a golden ticket and it isn't. If you don't have the grades to get into an elite university then why pay Cal State LA for 4 years when you can knock out 2 at a JC for significantly less?
We need more help identifying high school grads and helping place them in vocational training to fill those jobs.

going4roses said:

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Financial aid is racket but it was the only option. for some it's not and they (my classmates work and go to school to "better themselves and make a living wage" ) present tense 7 out of 10 are now not working.

The fact that this system charges one for what is now necessary to survive says more about the dynamics of the financial and political (machine) and the people who gain from it.

---

A degree is necessary to "survive"?

California for example:

2 yrs (60 units) at CC: $46/unit = < $3,000

2 yrs CSU (60 units): < $13,500k

2 yrs avg UC: $24k

2 yrs Cal: $29k

Worst case scenario you're in $30k debt. But that's if you're an entitled pr**k and didn't work your way through part of college, or refused a college student lifestyle, or moved to CA for school because you feel entitled to a distant university and pay out of state tuition as opposed to your more than serviceable in state universities. Plenty of plausible scenarios to have little to no student debt. You're not entitle to a secondary education you can't afford when there are a plethora of affordable options.

JUST STOP IT

going4roses said:

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1 billion is not enough

---

right. like when time traveler Dr Evil demanded ransom..

going4roses said:

---

Financial aid is racket but it was the only option. for some it's not and they (my classmates work and go to school to "better themselves and make a living wage" ) present tense 7 out of 10 are now not working.

The fact that this system charges one for what is now necessary to survive says more about the dynamics of the financial and political (machine) and the people who gain from it.

---

+1

UrsaMajor said:

---

going4roses said:

---

Financial aid is racket but it was the only option. for some it's not and they (my classmates work and go to school to "better themselves and make a living wage" ) present tense 7 out of 10 are now not working.

The fact that this system charges one for what is now necessary to survive says more about the dynamics of the financial and political (machine) and the people who gain from it.

---

+1

---

Only option? You just said yourself you could work.

What should a state school cost? It's already massively subsidized. It's also a gatekeeper for students who are looking to enter the 13th grade. Most college students come from middle class and above households. I'm all for tuition being based on socio-economic variables for qualified students.

The Fed is complicit in the absurd notion of guaranteeing loans to 18 year olds with no collateral and often no brains, but nobody is forcing you to take a bad deal and it is OBJECTIVELY not your only option to leave school with massive debt.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/schools-closed-for-coronavirus-online-work-wont-count-11584643049?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/jyjtUGwrzX

going4roses said:

---

https://www.wsj.com/articles/schools-closed-for-coronavirus-online-work-wont-count-11584643049?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/jyjtUGwrzX

---

The key here is "some schools". The message we are getting at my California JC is that everything will count and everyone who completes the work will get their units and their grade. I have not even heard a whisper of anything different. They do not have a choice. There are 2 million JC students in Ca. Disrupt them and you disrupt a lot of things.

To answer the OP:
"shelter in place" is imminently successful because it's about limiting the impact on the health care system not eradication of the disease.

By slowing the spread, we spread out the visits to the hospital over time so that the ventilators and ICUs aren't all needed at the same time. By "flattening the curve" of need several things are accomplished:

• Less folks get it because there is less exposure
• Health care workers are less stressed
• More life threatening conditions are successfully treated
• We learn to wipe with our hand when out of TP

That's right heartofthebear, I had almost forgotten. This thread was to discuss the effectiveness of shelter-in-place. Then it got shat upon (but, hey, people digress, I get it).

Yes, I understand we are trying to flatten the curve. I'm wondering if sheltering a bit more rigorously than we have been might be possible (yet still practical), thus flattening the curve even more. For example, Oakland's Lake Merritt the past few afternoons has looked almost like a giant "fun run". It did not look "essential"!

Meanwhile, China (if you can believe them) and S. Korea have pretty much "flat-lined" their curves.

Big C said:

---

That's right heartofthebear, I had almost forgotten. This thread was to discuss the effectiveness of shelter-in-place. Then it got shat upon (but, hey, people digress, I get it).

Yes, I understand we are trying to flatten the curve. I'm wondering if sheltering a bit more rigorously than we have been might be possible (yet still practical), thus flattening the curve even more. For example, Oakland's Lake Merritt the past few afternoons has looked almost like a giant "fun run". It did not look "essential"!

Meanwhile, China (if you can believe them) and S. Korea have pretty much "flat-lined" their curves.

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The effects of our current shelter in place will not be seen for a few weeks yet. The cases showing up today will be people who were infected two weeks ago.