LMK5 said:

---

As of today, in Arizona you can lawfully do the following:
--Elective surgeries (as of May 1)
-california hospitals have been allowed to do this, they just need to apply for a waiver

--Visit a retail store (as of May 4)
- no, I dont shop in brick and mortar stores anyway because I find it unenjoyable and frustrating, unless it's for groceries.

--Get a haircut (as of May 8)
-no, I'm a little shaggy, but dont really care that much (seriously, I dont know why people are caring so much about a haircut. It's just not that important).

--Go to a restaurant (as of May 11)
-no, I can get take out from my favorite restaurants, that is good enough for me

--Go to a pool, fitness center, or gym (as of today)
-no, I dont need a fitness center or gym membership to work out. I can go running or hiking or kicking a ball around anywhere.

--Buy gas for $1 less per gallon (always been that way)
- yes, I'm jealous of this one, but it has not always under a $1 in arizona.

Anybody slightly jealous besides me?

---

I would be jealous if they opened bars, state and national parks, and could travel abroad.

golden sloth said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

As of today, in Arizona you can lawfully do the following:
--Elective surgeries (as of May 1)
-california hospitals have been allowed to do this, they just need to apply for a waiver

--Visit a retail store (as of May 4)
- no, I dont shop in brick and mortar stores anyway because I find it unenjoyable and frustrating, unless it's for groceries.

--Get a haircut (as of May 8)
-no, I'm a little shaggy, but dont really care that much (seriously, I dont know why people are caring so much about a haircut. It's just not that important).

--Go to a restaurant (as of May 11)
-no, I can get take out from my favorite restaurants, that is good enough for me

--Go to a pool, fitness center, or gym (as of today)
-no, I dont need a fitness center or gym membership to work out. I can go running or hiking or kicking a ball around anywhere.

--Buy gas for $1 less per gallon (always been that way)
- yes, I'm jealous of this one, but it has not always under a $1 in arizona.

Anybody slightly jealous besides me?

---

I would be jealous if they opened bars, state and national parks, and could travel abroad.

---

Stay tuned.

LMK5 said:

---

As of today, in Arizona you can lawfully do the following:
--Elective surgeries (as of May 1)
--Visit a retail store (as of May 4)
--Get a haircut (as of May 8)
--Go to a restaurant (as of May 11)
--Go to a pool, fitness center, or gym (as of today)
--Buy gas for $1 less per gallon (always been that way)

Anybody slightly jealous besides me?

---

No. They are still living in Arizona. They can't fix that.

Don't look now but Newsom just made some drastic reductions in limitations and increased who can open. When asked about local authorities keeping things closed more than he requires, he basically said that if they thought local conditions warranted same, that is okay. When asked about counties who were outpacing his guidelines, he said something to the effect of call me and let's make a deal. He talked a lot about the budget deficit as well. The man has a practical streak.

okaydo said:

---

---

This is the issue with Arizona. It is a beautiful state full of lovely scenery but the politics are horrible! My parents lived there for a few years and my brother just moved back after having moved to Seattle so I have spent a lot of time there. For a while Arizona was the only Western state to have Cracker Barrel. To me that says it all, although we have them in California now, too. Maybe as politics change they will be more blue and resemble New Mexico more. New Mexico is almost as lovely but a lot more liberal.

dimitrig said:

---

> we have them in California now, too. Maybe as politics change they will be more blue and resemble New Mexico more.

---

suggested location from the south bay according to https://crackerbarrel.com/locations

Quote:

---

1 store nearby Sacramento
OPEN UNTIL 8 PM
93.96 mi
1000 Howe Ave.
Sacramento, CA 95825
Our kitchen is open for Curbside, Pickup & Delivery, but our dining room is closed temporarily due to COVID-19

---

There really is no turning back. After almost 90 days on the pause button we have to move forward. Hiding indefinitely from a contagion won't wind up looking good. Intelligent people understand this. Those that want to hide in their homes, gas mask and welder's shield firmly in place, are free to do so. It's a free country. This next reference is for you, Bearister: When you're in the fox hole with a battle raging outside and you have 7 days of food on hand, on day 6 you get to decide whether to risk certain starvation or start the counterattack, knowing you'll have casualties.

Spent a great day at Newport Beach yesterday. All the restaurants were busy, lots of people on the water, and wonderful weather. Lots of traffic also. I feel bad for those who are afraid--or who can't risk--going out. We've had no June gloom this year. My kids are in NorCal taking in the sites with their friends. They're loving the lack of crowds.

Spikes due to mass protests and reopenings are a certainty. Are they also happening in France, northern Italy, etc.? If not, why not? It seems like such an easy task to interview someone who comes up positive and ask them where they've been, what they've been doing, and where they've been doing it, then targeting those areas of spread accordingly, but for some reason this simple exercise is beyond our abilities. We can send a man to the moon ....

LMK5 said:

---

There really is no turning back. After almost 90 days on the pause button we have to move forward.

---

> 1918 - 20 influenza pandemic
> Virus Subtype H1N1 aka "Spanish Flu"
> Worldwide deaths 17 to 100 million

so long as, by oski's grace, the relentless rush doesn't ditch too many of us in a bad place..
# stuff happens

LMK5 said:

---

As of today, in Arizona you can lawfully do the following:
--Elective surgeries (as of May 1)
--Visit a retail store (as of May 4)
--Get a haircut (as of May 8)
--Go to a restaurant (as of May 11)
--Go to a pool, fitness center, or gym (as of today)
--Buy gas for $1 less per gallon (always been that way)

Anybody slightly jealous besides me?

---

In California, I've:

- Only recently been able to enter a retail-type store (supermarkets, Targets, and hardware stores have been open)
- Was finally able to get a haircut last week
- Can finally go to a restaurant and sit inside (we will do this Monday)
- Can't go to a pool or fitness center
- Nail salons still aren't open for no more explanation of what make them different than a hair salon. I suspect it's the nationality of the people that work there that is the unspoken issue.

But at least almost everybody wears a mask without complaint. Not because they think they are sick or that others will get them sick, but just because they want people to feel safe.

golden sloth said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

As of today, in Arizona you can lawfully do the following:
--Elective surgeries (as of May 1)
--Visit a retail store (as of May 4)
--Get a haircut (as of May 8)
--Go to a restaurant (as of May 11)
--Go to a pool, fitness center, or gym (as of today)
--Buy gas for $1 less per gallon (always been that way)

Anybody slightly jealous besides me?

---

Today in Arizona 3x as many people are getting sick as they were a few weeks ago and it's the fastest growing hotspot in the nation. Republican Governor Ducey's order prohibits local officials from taking any extra precautions to control the spread so they are going to ride the wave come what may.

Is LMK5 still jealous?

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/876786952/health-experts-link-rise-in-arizona-coronavirus-cases-to-end-of-stay-at-home-ord

---

What I most want is to see my girlfriend in Mexico, and I cant do that until this disease has subsided, and the governments relinquish their travel bans, so this is all bad news. The right/ left, urban/rural, red/blue internet battles are tedious, trivial and tiring.

---

Most importantly, there's no logic to any of it. It's two parties who are both trying to use this crisis to blame the other party when neither stood up for the rights of their citizens.

Almost no congressmen in either party deserve re-election this year for having abandoned their citizens in their greatest moment of need and the same goes for open Senate seats.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

As of today, in Arizona you can lawfully do the following:
--Elective surgeries (as of May 1)
--Visit a retail store (as of May 4)
--Get a haircut (as of May 8)
--Go to a restaurant (as of May 11)
--Go to a pool, fitness center, or gym (as of today)
--Buy gas for $1 less per gallon (always been that way)

Anybody slightly jealous besides me?

---

Today in Arizona 3x as many people are getting sick as they were a few weeks ago and it's the fastest growing hotspot in the nation. Republican Governor Ducey's order prohibits local officials from taking any extra precautions to control the spread so they are going to ride the wave come what may.

Is LMK5 still jealous?

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/876786952/health-experts-link-rise-in-arizona-coronavirus-cases-to-end-of-stay-at-home-ord

---

That's some fine liberal gaslighting you're doing there. Well done. I applaud you for serving Mama Bear proudly.

The problem is not that Arizona is open. The problem is they won't wear masks. And I know better than anyone cause I have an old ex-BI buddy who doesn't post here anymore because of the bull**** double-standards who has been insisting for months that wearing a mask is stupid.

He's wrong.

The key is and has always been the same three things.

1. Wear a mask.
2. Keep your distance.
3. Wash your hands
4. Don't touch your face.

But if that's what Arizona wants to do, fine. People are free to do what they want. Just don't expect that we're letting your citizens come to my state.

And the Trump administration has decided to continue with the travel bans to Mexico and Canada for at least another month.

dimitrig said:

---

okaydo said:

---

---

This is the issue with Arizona. It is a beautiful state full of lovely scenery but the politics are horrible! My parents lived there for a few years and my brother just moved back after having moved to Seattle so I have spent a lot of time there. For a while Arizona was the only Western state to have Cracker Barrel. To me that says it all, although we have them in California now, too. Maybe as politics change they will be more blue and resemble New Mexico more. New Mexico is almost as lovely but a lot more liberal.

---

This tells you all you need to know:

The rocky history of Martin Luther King Jr. Day in Arizona


https://ktar.com/story/1903240/history-martin-luther-king-jr-day-arizona/

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

As of today, in Arizona you can lawfully do the following:
--Elective surgeries (as of May 1)
--Visit a retail store (as of May 4)
--Get a haircut (as of May 8)
--Go to a restaurant (as of May 11)
--Go to a pool, fitness center, or gym (as of today)
--Buy gas for $1 less per gallon (always been that way)

Anybody slightly jealous besides me?

---

Monthly check-in time for LMK5. Still jealous of Arizona? I don't think you've updated us recently on how much better Arizona is than California.

---

His family is probably on vacation in San Diego, joining the thousands of AZ COVID-19 vectors on their annual summer pilgrimage to transmit their problems to SoCal.

Still amazed at how many do not know that Arizona was part of the Confederacy...
Aligning with "Dixiecrats" is nothing new.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

As of today, in Arizona you can lawfully do the following:
--Elective surgeries (as of May 1)
--Visit a retail store (as of May 4)
--Get a haircut (as of May 8)
--Go to a restaurant (as of May 11)
--Go to a pool, fitness center, or gym (as of today)
--Buy gas for $1 less per gallon (always been that way)

Anybody slightly jealous besides me?

---

Monthly check-in time for LMK5. Still jealous of Arizona? I don't think you've updated us recently on how much better Arizona is than California.

---

Not jealous of Arizona, just pointing out the differences in how different governments deal with the crisis. My Arizona haircut lasted until yesterday. My wife saw that King Gavin was going to close the dangerous Supercuts outlets, so she smartly got me an appointment and I was able to get clipped 30 minutes before they closed yesterday.

Was in Flagstaff for the long 4th weekend. Visited GCNP, Wupatki, and some forest hikes. Great weather; cheap gas; open restaurants. Lots of Trump flags on Lake Havasu.

My daughter and roommate in AZ are still going onsite to their jobs. Not much has changed there actually. Word is the protests have caused quite a bit of Covid harm but of course we can't discuss that for fear someone might find out and BI will be forced to shut down.

Notably, as of now, ASU is planning full in-class schedules, whereas UC gave up weeks ago, to no one's surprise. LAUSD is going strictly online against all advice from pediatric experts. Gotta love those unions.

LMK5 said:

---

Word is the protests have caused quite a bit of Covid harm but of course we can't discuss that for fear someone might find out and BI will be forced to shut down.

---

Curious, word from who?

The only studies I can find suggest that outdoor protests did not significantly contribute to COVID spread.

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Word is the protests have caused quite a bit of Covid harm but of course we can't discuss that for fear someone might find out and BI will be forced to shut down.

---

Curious, word from who?

The only studies I can find suggest that outdoor protests did not significantly contribute to COVID spread.

---

My daughter works for a state welfare agency and that's the predominant thought. Also, the hotter sunbelt climates are all experiencing a rise in cases due to more being indoors with AC systems that are conducive to spreading the virus. You see that sort of thing in offices where colds/flu spreads among employees all the time.

sycasey, you very well know nobody would dare suggest publicly that any BLM protests or riots caused even a single case of Covid. C'mon.

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Word is the protests have caused quite a bit of Covid harm but of course we can't discuss that for fear someone might find out and BI will be forced to shut down.

---

Curious, word from who?

The only studies I can find suggest that outdoor protests did not significantly contribute to COVID spread.

---

My daughter works for a state welfare agency and that's the predominant thought. Also, the hotter sunbelt climates are all experiencing a rise in cases due to more being indoors with AC systems that are conducive to spreading the virus. You see that sort of thing in offices where colds/flu spreads among employees all the time.

---

I can believe the second part (hot climates driving people inside to air conditioning). The first doesn't seem supported by data, but I am willing to look at any if there is. There were at least as many protests in northern cities (like NYC) that don't seem to be seeing the same spikes, so how do you account for that?

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey, you very well know nobody would dare suggest publicly that any BLM protests or riots caused even a single case of Covid. C'mon.

---

Conservatives suggest it all the time. I'm just looking for the evidence that this is a major factor.

Too bad the ole Barfly Jan Brewer isn't still governor. She'd be steering 'Zona through this crisis as smoothly as Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

As of today, in Arizona you can lawfully do the following:
--Elective surgeries (as of May 1)
--Visit a retail store (as of May 4)
--Get a haircut (as of May 8)
--Go to a restaurant (as of May 11)
--Go to a pool, fitness center, or gym (as of today)
--Buy gas for $1 less per gallon (always been that way)

Anybody slightly jealous besides me?

---

Monthly check-in time for LMK5. Still jealous of Arizona? I don't think you've updated us recently on how much better Arizona is than California.

---

Not jealous of Arizona, just pointing out the differences in how different governments deal with the crisis. My Arizona haircut lasted until yesterday. My wife saw that King Gavin was going to close the dangerous Supercuts outlets, so she smartly got me an appointment and I was able to get clipped 30 minutes before they closed yesterday.

Was in Flagstaff for the long 4th weekend. Visited GCNP, Wupatki, and some forest hikes. Great weather; cheap gas; open restaurants. Lots of Trump flags on Lake Havasu.

My daughter and roommate in AZ are still going onsite to their jobs. Not much has changed there actually. Word is the protests have caused quite a bit of Covid harm but of course we can't discuss that for fear someone might find out and BI will be forced to shut down.

Notably, as of now, ASU is planning full in-class schedules, whereas UC gave up weeks ago, to no one's surprise. LAUSD is going strictly online against all advice from pediatric experts. Gotta love those unions.

---

When did you stop becoming jealous of Arizona?

As for the protests, you noted last month that you believed that the protests would lead to more cases and now you say that the "word is" that's the case. What are you specifically referring to? At the time you outlined that it would be easy to determine, so presumably, Arizona has done what you suggested and there is some evidence, but I haven't seen it

You also said:

Quote:

---

There really is no turning back. After almost 90 days on the pause button we have to move forward. Hiding indefinitely from a contagion won't wind up looking good. Intelligent people understand this.

---

Would love to hear more about what the intelligent people have to say about Arizona's infection rates vs the rest of the world. According to the NYT and with additional insight from this AZ Central article, it appears that Arizona has more recent cases per capita than any other state and more than any other country in the world. It similarly had a higher positive test rate than any other state (and all but 2 small countries).

I'm also confused as to why Arizona's governor would be increasing the number of restrictions on consumer businesses now if everything is going according to the plan that the intelligent people understood. Is he not an intelligent person? Does he not realize that the protests were causing "quite a bit of Covid harm"? Please let us know what he's missing and what we're missing.

---

All the hot states are experiencing a surge right now. You think California's doing great? Ask King Newsom. No haircuts for you! Arizona is also unique in that Covid is a real problem on the reservations.

We can keep closing things up and waiting. But then when we open up the same thing will happen over and over. Everyone knows this. The only reason to lock down is to try and modulate the flow into hospitals. You can't kill the virus by hiding from it. Most rational people realize life must go on to the extent possible. I'm in the office every day.

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Word is the protests have caused quite a bit of Covid harm but of course we can't discuss that for fear someone might find out and BI will be forced to shut down.

---

Curious, word from who?

The only studies I can find suggest that outdoor protests did not significantly contribute to COVID spread.

---

My daughter works for a state welfare agency and that's the predominant thought. Also, the hotter sunbelt climates are all experiencing a rise in cases due to more being indoors with AC systems that are conducive to spreading the virus. You see that sort of thing in offices where colds/flu spreads among employees all the time.

---

I can believe the second part (hot climates driving people inside to air conditioning). The first doesn't seem supported by data, but I am willing to look at any if there is. There were at least as many protests in northern cities (like NYC) that don't seem to be seeing the same spikes, so how do you account for that?

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey, you very well know nobody would dare suggest publicly that any BLM protests or riots caused even a single case of Covid. C'mon.

---

Conservatives suggest it all the time. I'm just looking for the evidence that this is a major factor.

---

Where's the evidence that churches are major spreaders? It seemed that the governors of Michigan and Kentucky were quite clear that protests against their lockdowns led to Covid surges. Why aren't any governors condemning the BLM protests as irresponsible?

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

As of today, in Arizona you can lawfully do the following:
--Elective surgeries (as of May 1)
--Visit a retail store (as of May 4)
--Get a haircut (as of May 8)
--Go to a restaurant (as of May 11)
--Go to a pool, fitness center, or gym (as of today)
--Buy gas for $1 less per gallon (always been that way)

Anybody slightly jealous besides me?

---

Monthly check-in time for LMK5. Still jealous of Arizona? I don't think you've updated us recently on how much better Arizona is than California.

---

Not jealous of Arizona, just pointing out the differences in how different governments deal with the crisis. My Arizona haircut lasted until yesterday. My wife saw that King Gavin was going to close the dangerous Supercuts outlets, so she smartly got me an appointment and I was able to get clipped 30 minutes before they closed yesterday.

Was in Flagstaff for the long 4th weekend. Visited GCNP, Wupatki, and some forest hikes. Great weather; cheap gas; open restaurants. Lots of Trump flags on Lake Havasu.

My daughter and roommate in AZ are still going onsite to their jobs. Not much has changed there actually. Word is the protests have caused quite a bit of Covid harm but of course we can't discuss that for fear someone might find out and BI will be forced to shut down.

Notably, as of now, ASU is planning full in-class schedules, whereas UC gave up weeks ago, to no one's surprise. LAUSD is going strictly online against all advice from pediatric experts. Gotta love those unions.

---

When did you stop becoming jealous of Arizona?

As for the protests, you noted last month that you believed that the protests would lead to more cases and now you say that the "word is" that's the case. What are you specifically referring to? At the time you outlined that it would be easy to determine, so presumably, Arizona has done what you suggested and there is some evidence, but I haven't seen it

You also said:

Quote:

---

There really is no turning back. After almost 90 days on the pause button we have to move forward. Hiding indefinitely from a contagion won't wind up looking good. Intelligent people understand this.

---

Would love to hear more about what the intelligent people have to say about Arizona's infection rates vs the rest of the world. According to the NYT and with additional insight from this AZ Central article, it appears that Arizona has more recent cases per capita than any other state and more than any other country in the world. It similarly had a higher positive test rate than any other state (and all but 2 small countries).

I'm also confused as to why Arizona's governor would be increasing the number of restrictions on consumer businesses now if everything is going according to the plan that the intelligent people understood. Is he not an intelligent person? Does he not realize that the protests were causing "quite a bit of Covid harm"? Please let us know what he's missing and what we're missing.

---

All the hot states are experiencing a surge right now. You think California's doing great? Ask King Newsom. No haircuts for you! Arizona is also unique in that Covid is a real problem on the reservations.

We can keep closing things up and waiting. But then when we open up the same thing will happen over and over. Everyone knows this. The only reason to lock down is to try and modulate the flow into hospitals. You can't kill the virus by hiding from it. Most rational people realize life must go on to the extent possible. I'm in the office every day.

---

I would argue that the only way you can kill the virus is by hiding from it. I would need to defer to the "intelligent people" that you always talk about, but based on how every successful country has done it, hiding seems to be the best course of action. But now you've introduced "rational people" into the mix, so maybe that changes things.

Was it the rational people or the intelligent people who said that the hot weather would make it go away? Why didn't they realize that it was only going to make it worse?

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Where's the evidence that churches are major spreaders?

---

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/us/coronavirus-churches-outbreaks.html

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/28/trump-coronavirus-spread-churches-342296

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6920e2.htm

https://6abc.com/covid-19-us-coronavirus/6313747/

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/q-and-a-nearly-all-healthcare-workers-fighting-covid-19-need-n95s

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242847301.html

---

nice links thanks sycasey.

what i don't get is why cybers bother with LMKS thinky bits (or mine) # shrugs

smh said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Where's the evidence that churches are major spreaders?

---

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/us/coronavirus-churches-outbreaks.html

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/28/trump-coronavirus-spread-churches-342296

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6920e2.htm

https://6abc.com/covid-19-us-coronavirus/6313747/

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/q-and-a-nearly-all-healthcare-workers-fighting-covid-19-need-n95s

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242847301.html

---

nice links thanks sycasey.

---

(I'll note I had to fix the Infection Control Today one.)