Matthew Patel said:

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calbear93 said:

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BearForce2 said:

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Matthew Patel said:

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BearForce2 said:

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Lefties be like stop killing black people, kill cops instead. And by the way, we are peaceful.

---

Hard to imagine how being pro-killing black people makes you feel morally superior

---

You sound like AunBear, congratulations.
Remember, your boy Bernie doesn't support BLM. If he was the Democrat nominee, he would have to.

---

Whether it's gun control, immigration, or racial issues, Sanders never seemed very liberal on social issues.

---

I don't think that's true on the third part. And in regards to the second part, he is certainly more liberal than the other people he was running against for President, though possibly not as liberal as others want him to be.

But as far as what he believes, who cares. He's one senator out of 100 who isn't ever going to be president, so his positions are no more relevant than any other senator.

---

Yogi -

On the matter of the third point - I think Sanders is more aligned with where Biden and most moderates are - reform police and redefine scope of responsibility as opposed to defunding the police promoted by some in the progressive movement like AOC:

https://www.axios.com/bernie-sanders-defund-police-091387de-e132-458e-b048-b367cb44ce18.html


On immigration, Sanders has been historically anti-immigration, focused more on unions, tariffs, limiting immigrants taking jobs from Americans. When running for president, he has changed his position, but his prior position was very typical of Democrats in pre-Reagan era who were more focused on blue collar workers and more aligned with Trump than Republicans who wanted more immigration to reduce cost for corporations.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2020/2/25/21143931/bernie-sanders-immigration-record-explained


There will be some clashes among the Democrats as some woke policies will clash with what the trend is in the black community on gun ownership and what blue collar workers think about globalism and robust immigration.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/26/black-americans-gun-owners-380162

That is why knee jerk fake progressives will often miss the plot.


As to why I care about Sanders, I don't really even though he is still an important voice for the progressive wing. I was responding directly to BF2 to a comment he made about Bernie Sanders.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/26/portland-protests-police-declare-riot-violence-grows/5513752002/



Portland police declare riot as demonstrators attack fence outside federal courthouse. Because storming the federal courthouse is about black lives mattering.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Courthouse-set-on-fire-during-protest-in-15434784.php

Quote:

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About 700 demonstrators participated in what started as a peaceful march Saturday night.

"This was different," Watson said. "This group of protesters had specific intentions to participate in one way or another whether that's carrying backpacks in with clearly very heavy items, and the smaller group would actually be engaged in doing the damage there is a nexus with all of the attendees."

---

Courthouse set on fire during protest in Oakland. It always seem to start peaceful but never ends that way. Peaceful BLM protests are a lie. Black lives matter so much, leftist white people have that itch to damage federal courthouses.

In Portland you now have the NursesFa, the teacher'sFa, the GrandmasFa, the VeteransFa- number of demonstrators have swelled on some night to 10,0000. At this point the Feds have a failed mission- being the one focal point for continuing the demonstration. They are the demonstration, the protest and a stationary target.

Anarchistbear said:

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In Portland you now have the NursesFa, the teacher'sFa, the GrandmasFa, the VeteransFa- number of demonstrators have swelled on some night to 10,0000. At this point the Feds have a failed mission- being the one focal point for continuing the demonstration. They are the demonstration, the protest and a stationary target.

---

They should let the leftist mob run its course. Either they lose momentum and disperse or find something new to attack. Burn down Portland and show the country how you care so much about black lives despite Covid.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnafkeFsgwhOBVM4nLkDOtMgsYU3TI4DKggJhn1A527GN_4anJ&s

Leftist mob.

Anarchistbear said:

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https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnafkeFsgwhOBVM4nLkDOtMgsYU3TI4DKggJhn1A527GN_4anJ&s

Leftist mob.

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Watcha going to do when grandma-fa comes for you?

BearForce2 said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnafkeFsgwhOBVM4nLkDOtMgsYU3TI4DKggJhn1A527GN_4anJ&s

Leftist mob.

---

Watcha going to do when grandma-fa comes for you?

---

They change their Depends every two hours.

Stupid antifa types are wrecking this: If all the protesters now were peaceful and stayed a block away from the federal buildings, people across the country could much more easily grasp the concept that Trump's troops are a horrible idea.

Big C said:

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Stupid antifa types are wrecking this: If all the protesters now were peaceful and stayed a block away from the federal buildings, people across the country could much more easily grasp the concept that Trump's troops are a horrible idea.

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This is what happens when stupid meets stupid. Stupid will win and America will lose.

BearForce2 said:

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https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/14/us/police-violence-defund-debate-trnd/index.html

Chicago

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/19/us/chicago-shootings-weekend/index.html

New York

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/nyregion/nyc-shootings-nypd.html

---

"Let them eat bread!" -Progressives

calbear93 said:

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Matthew Patel said:

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calbear93 said:

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BearForce2 said:

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Matthew Patel said:

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BearForce2 said:

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Lefties be like stop killing black people, kill cops instead. And by the way, we are peaceful.

---

Hard to imagine how being pro-killing black people makes you feel morally superior

---

You sound like AunBear, congratulations.
Remember, your boy Bernie doesn't support BLM. If he was the Democrat nominee, he would have to.

---

Whether it's gun control, immigration, or racial issues, Sanders never seemed very liberal on social issues.

---

I don't think that's true on the third part. And in regards to the second part, he is certainly more liberal than the other people he was running against for President, though possibly not as liberal as others want him to be.

But as far as what he believes, who cares. He's one senator out of 100 who isn't ever going to be president, so his positions are no more relevant than any other senator.

---

On the matter of the third point - I think Sanders is more aligned with where Biden and most moderates are - reform police and redefine scope of responsibility as opposed to defunding the police promoted by some in the progressive movement like AOC:

https://www.axios.com/bernie-sanders-defund-police-091387de-e132-458e-b048-b367cb44ce18.html

---

Defunding the police and racial issues aren't exactly the same thing.

Quote:

---

On immigration, Sanders has been historically anti-immigration, focused more on unions, tariffs, limiting immigrants taking jobs from Americans. When running for president, he has changed his position, but his prior position was very typical of Democrats in pre-Reagan era who were more focused on blue collar workers and more aligned with Trump than Republicans who wanted more immigration to reduce cost for corporations.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2020/2/25/21143931/bernie-sanders-immigration-record-explained

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/immigration/

Quote:

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There will be some clashes among the Democrats as some woke policies will clash with what the trend is in the black community on gun ownership and what blue collar workers think about globalism and robust immigration.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/26/black-americans-gun-owners-380162

---

Blue collar workers are getting screwed by China, not by Mexico

Matthew Patel said:

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calbear93 said:

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Matthew Patel said:

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calbear93 said:

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BearForce2 said:

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Matthew Patel said:

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BearForce2 said:

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Lefties be like stop killing black people, kill cops instead. And by the way, we are peaceful.

---

Hard to imagine how being pro-killing black people makes you feel morally superior

---

You sound like AunBear, congratulations.
Remember, your boy Bernie doesn't support BLM. If he was the Democrat nominee, he would have to.

---

Whether it's gun control, immigration, or racial issues, Sanders never seemed very liberal on social issues.

---

I don't think that's true on the third part. And in regards to the second part, he is certainly more liberal than the other people he was running against for President, though possibly not as liberal as others want him to be.

But as far as what he believes, who cares. He's one senator out of 100 who isn't ever going to be president, so his positions are no more relevant than any other senator.

---

On the matter of the third point - I think Sanders is more aligned with where Biden and most moderates are - reform police and redefine scope of responsibility as opposed to defunding the police promoted by some in the progressive movement like AOC:

https://www.axios.com/bernie-sanders-defund-police-091387de-e132-458e-b048-b367cb44ce18.html

---

Defunding the police and racial issues aren't exactly the same thing.

Quote:

---

On immigration, Sanders has been historically anti-immigration, focused more on unions, tariffs, limiting immigrants taking jobs from Americans. When running for president, he has changed his position, but his prior position was very typical of Democrats in pre-Reagan era who were more focused on blue collar workers and more aligned with Trump than Republicans who wanted more immigration to reduce cost for corporations.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2020/2/25/21143931/bernie-sanders-immigration-record-explained

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/immigration/

Quote:

---

There will be some clashes among the Democrats as some woke policies will clash with what the trend is in the black community on gun ownership and what blue collar workers think about globalism and robust immigration.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/26/black-americans-gun-owners-380162

---

Blue collar workers are getting screwed by China, not by Mexico

---

Defunding the police is definitely tied to recent racial issues and is being promoted by BLM.

As I mentioned, if you look at his historical position on immigration, he was generally against immigration, with argument that immigration hurts blue collar workers. In fact, he was one of the senators voting against providing a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants. But, as I mentioned, when he decided to run for president, he changed his position. That's fine. He was not going to get any traction with his prior position on immigration.

I would ask you to look at Sander's position on NAFTA and TPP. TPP was a measure to counter China's dominant role, but, because it would remove trade barriers for other Asian countries who wanted to partner with US to counter China's might, Sanders was against it because he was afraid that it would generate more outsourcing to those other Asian countries. Abandoning TPP only helped China as those same other Asian countries then made favorable trade deals with China when Trump abandoned the treaty.

I'm quite familiar with the ANTIFA ninjas, having watched them destroy Oakland 3 times during the Occupy Oakland Protests. The Molotov cocktail throwers and graffiti sprayers at the Oakland Main Courthouse are ANTIFA POS.

This is the comment I posted with the video above:

I'm quite familiar with the ANTIFA ninjas, having watched them destroy Oakland 3 times during the Occupy Oakland Protests. The Molotov cocktail throwers and graffiti sprayers at the Oakland Main Courthouse are ANTIFA POS.*

*Comments attached to imbedded videos sometimes disappear when you open the post.

BearForce2 said:

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Quote:

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Courthouse set on fire during protest in Oakland. It always seem to start peaceful but never ends that way. Peaceful BLM protests are a lie. Black lives matter so much, leftist white people have that itch to damage federal courthouses.

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BLM really stands for Burn, Loot, Murder. The movement now has nothing to do with black lives. It has been taken over by anarchists and domestic terrorists.

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Liberalism is a mental illness.

calbear93 said:

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Matthew Patel said:

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calbear93 said:

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Matthew Patel said:

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calbear93 said:

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BearForce2 said:

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Matthew Patel said:

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BearForce2 said:

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Lefties be like stop killing black people, kill cops instead. And by the way, we are peaceful.

---

Hard to imagine how being pro-killing black people makes you feel morally superior

---

You sound like AunBear, congratulations.
Remember, your boy Bernie doesn't support BLM. If he was the Democrat nominee, he would have to.

---

Whether it's gun control, immigration, or racial issues, Sanders never seemed very liberal on social issues.

---

I don't think that's true on the third part. And in regards to the second part, he is certainly more liberal than the other people he was running against for President, though possibly not as liberal as others want him to be.

But as far as what he believes, who cares. He's one senator out of 100 who isn't ever going to be president, so his positions are no more relevant than any other senator.

---

On the matter of the third point - I think Sanders is more aligned with where Biden and most moderates are - reform police and redefine scope of responsibility as opposed to defunding the police promoted by some in the progressive movement like AOC:

https://www.axios.com/bernie-sanders-defund-police-091387de-e132-458e-b048-b367cb44ce18.html

---

Defunding the police and racial issues aren't exactly the same thing.

Quote:

---

On immigration, Sanders has been historically anti-immigration, focused more on unions, tariffs, limiting immigrants taking jobs from Americans. When running for president, he has changed his position, but his prior position was very typical of Democrats in pre-Reagan era who were more focused on blue collar workers and more aligned with Trump than Republicans who wanted more immigration to reduce cost for corporations.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2020/2/25/21143931/bernie-sanders-immigration-record-explained

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/immigration/

Quote:

---

There will be some clashes among the Democrats as some woke policies will clash with what the trend is in the black community on gun ownership and what blue collar workers think about globalism and robust immigration.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/26/black-americans-gun-owners-380162

---

Blue collar workers are getting screwed by China, not by Mexico

---

Defunding the police is definitely tied to recent racial issues and is being promoted by BLM.

---

Tied to it? Yes. Same thing? No. Before there was BLM, he was well in support of racial issues and racial issues existed long before BLM.

Anti-fascists linked to zero murders in the US in 25 years*


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


*With that said, I detest Far Right and Far Left equally. Both groups are knee deep with D bags.

bearister said:

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Anti-fascists linked to zero murders in the US in 25 years*


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


*With that said, I detest Far Right and Far Left equally. Both groups are knee deep with D bags.

---

That was my question about some of the above trolling. Murder? Has any protester at a BLM rally murdered anyone?

Matthew Patel said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

Lefties be like stop killing black people, kill cops instead. And by the way, we are peaceful.

---

Hard to imagine how being pro-killing black people makes you feel morally superior

---

You sound like AunBear, congratulations.
Remember, your boy Bernie doesn't support BLM. If he was the Democrat nominee, he would have to.

---

Whether it's gun control, immigration, or racial issues, Sanders never seemed very liberal on social issues.

---

I don't think that's true on the third part. And in regards to the second part, he is certainly more liberal than the other people he was running against for President, though possibly not as liberal as others want him to be.

But as far as what he believes, who cares. He's one senator out of 100 who isn't ever going to be president, so his positions are no more relevant than any other senator.

---

On the matter of the third point - I think Sanders is more aligned with where Biden and most moderates are - reform police and redefine scope of responsibility as opposed to defunding the police promoted by some in the progressive movement like AOC:

https://www.axios.com/bernie-sanders-defund-police-091387de-e132-458e-b048-b367cb44ce18.html

---

Defunding the police and racial issues aren't exactly the same thing.

Quote:

---

On immigration, Sanders has been historically anti-immigration, focused more on unions, tariffs, limiting immigrants taking jobs from Americans. When running for president, he has changed his position, but his prior position was very typical of Democrats in pre-Reagan era who were more focused on blue collar workers and more aligned with Trump than Republicans who wanted more immigration to reduce cost for corporations.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2020/2/25/21143931/bernie-sanders-immigration-record-explained

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/immigration/

Quote:

---

There will be some clashes among the Democrats as some woke policies will clash with what the trend is in the black community on gun ownership and what blue collar workers think about globalism and robust immigration.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/26/black-americans-gun-owners-380162

---

Blue collar workers are getting screwed by China, not by Mexico

---

Defunding the police is definitely tied to recent racial issues and is being promoted by BLM.

---

Tied to it? Yes. Same thing? No. Before there was BLM, he was well in support of racilal issues and racial issues existed long before BLM.

---

I am not saying he doesn't care about racial issues. I said he is more aligned with moderate Democrats on social matters, but diverge on economic matters. He and Biden are not that different on racial matters.

Atlanta mayor calls for citizens to stop 'shooting each other' after murder of 8-year-old near BLM protest site.

Victim's father: 'They say Black Lives Matter. You killed your own'

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/atlanta-mayor-calls-for-citizens-to-stop-shooting-each-other-after-murder-of-8-year-old-near-blm-protest-site

Yup. One example means it applies to everyone and everything.


That's how "logic" works in RWNJ World.

AunBear89 said:

---

Yup. One example means it applies to everyone and everything.


That's how "logic" works in RWNJ World.

---

Austin, TX. There are more examples if you want to google it yourself.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/what-we-know-about-the-austin-blm-protest-shooting.html

Oh yeah, the Atlanta incident. That's one probably.

The Austin one looks more like a protester got shot by someone else.

I assume some of you live in or around Oakland. When you see rioters in downtown trying to burn down the federal courthouse, damage stores that you may frequent, vandalize the police station, and spray graffiti all over buildings, what do you feel inside? If you are sympathetic to the vandals in Portland and Seattle, do the same events much closer to home cause you to re-examine your stance?

LMK5 said:

---

I assume some of you live in or around Oakland. When you see rioters in downtown trying to burn down the federal courthouse, damage stores that you may frequent, vandalize the police station, and spray graffiti all over buildings, what do you feel inside? If you are sympathetic to the vandals in Portland and Seattle, do the same events much closer to home cause you to re-examine your stance?

---

I think those who try to set fires to buildings or smash windows should be arrested. That kind of behavior should not be supported.

I do not think this is anywhere near a majority of the protesters or the primary focus of the protests.

It's also not like this is happening all over the city. Well, maybe in the very early weeks of the Floyd protests you did see smashed windows in a lot of different neighborhoods. But as of now the fire at the courthouse is the only major incident of its type that has happened in about a month. From friends of mine who live in Portland I hear similar things: the protests and damage are limited to a few blocks downtown. I know some right-wing news outlets like to paint a picture of "American cities burning down" but it's not the case.

sycasey said:

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LMK5 said:

---

I assume some of you live in or around Oakland. When you see rioters in downtown trying to burn down the federal courthouse, damage stores that you may frequent, vandalize the police station, and spray graffiti all over buildings, what do you feel inside? If you are sympathetic to the vandals in Portland and Seattle, do the same events much closer to home cause you to re-examine your stance?

---

I think those who try to set fires to buildings or smash windows should be arrested. That kind of behavior should not be supported.

I do not think this is anywhere near a majority of the protesters or the primary focus of the protests.

It's also not like this is happening all over the city. Well, maybe in the very early weeks of the Floyd protests you did see smashed windows in a lot of different neighborhoods. But as of now the fire at the courthouse is the only major incident of its type that has happened in about a month. From friends of mine who live in Portland I hear similar things: the protests and damage are limited to a few blocks downtown. I know some right-wing news outlets like to paint a picture of "American cities burning down" but it's not the case.

---

I basically agree. Yes, the center-right media will play up the unrest but at the same time the left wing media plays it down. I don't think the rioters are protesting anything at all from the images and footage I've seen. It appears to have taken the shape of illicit sport, where the participants have been emboldened by the lack of universal scorn and the comfort in knowing prosecution is highly unlikely. They've got a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to act out in ways they could only dream about and they aren't going to let it pass.

I'm asking about reactions because if I lived there I would be very angry and would support any local effort that called the mayor and local leadership to account.

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

I assume some of you live in or around Oakland. When you see rioters in downtown trying to burn down the federal courthouse, damage stores that you may frequent, vandalize the police station, and spray graffiti all over buildings, what do you feel inside? If you are sympathetic to the vandals in Portland and Seattle, do the same events much closer to home cause you to re-examine your stance?

---

I think those who try to set fires to buildings or smash windows should be arrested. That kind of behavior should not be supported.

I do not think this is anywhere near a majority of the protesters or the primary focus of the protests.

It's also not like this is happening all over the city. Well, maybe in the very early weeks of the Floyd protests you did see smashed windows in a lot of different neighborhoods. But as of now the fire at the courthouse is the only major incident of its type that has happened in about a month. From friends of mine who live in Portland I hear similar things: the protests and damage are limited to a few blocks downtown. I know some right-wing news outlets like to paint a picture of "American cities burning down" but it's not the case.

---

I basically agree. Yes, the center-right media will play up the unrest but at the same time the left wing media plays it down. I don't think the rioters are protesting anything at all from the images and footage I've seen. It appears to have taken the shape of illicit sport, where the participants have been emboldened by the lack of universal scorn and the comfort in knowing prosecution is highly unlikely. They've got a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to act out in ways they could only dream about and they aren't going to let it pass.

I'm asking about reactions because if I lived there I would be very angry and would support any local effort that called the mayor and local leadership to account.

---

I guess I'm not sure why I should be angry? The effects of the initial protests calmed down after a week or two, and unless you live right near the county courthouse (hint: almost no one does) then almost any Oakland resident could easily go about their normal lives without being affected. There have also been plenty of peaceful marches in the last two months that resulted in nothing except some occasional heavy traffic. But you would actually have to live here to know that and not just follow the scariest-looking news reports.

From the reports I've seen it looks like there is usually a legitimate protest going on (perhaps for BLM or some similar cause) and then some other group breaks off and starts smashing stuff. Again, I support arresting people who do that -- WHEN they do it, not before. Yes, I suspect many of these people are just opportunists latching on to a moment when authorities may be distracted.

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

I assume some of you live in or around Oakland. When you see rioters in downtown trying to burn down the federal courthouse, damage stores that you may frequent, vandalize the police station, and spray graffiti all over buildings, what do you feel inside? If you are sympathetic to the vandals in Portland and Seattle, do the same events much closer to home cause you to re-examine your stance?

---

I think those who try to set fires to buildings or smash windows should be arrested. That kind of behavior should not be supported.

I do not think this is anywhere near a majority of the protesters or the primary focus of the protests.

It's also not like this is happening all over the city. Well, maybe in the very early weeks of the Floyd protests you did see smashed windows in a lot of different neighborhoods. But as of now the fire at the courthouse is the only major incident of its type that has happened in about a month. From friends of mine who live in Portland I hear similar things: the protests and damage are limited to a few blocks downtown. I know some right-wing news outlets like to paint a picture of "American cities burning down" but it's not the case.

---

I basically agree. Yes, the center-right media will play up the unrest but at the same time the left wing media plays it down. I don't think the rioters are protesting anything at all from the images and footage I've seen. It appears to have taken the shape of illicit sport, where the participants have been emboldened by the lack of universal scorn and the comfort in knowing prosecution is highly unlikely. They've got a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to act out in ways they could only dream about and they aren't going to let it pass.

I'm asking about reactions because if I lived there I would be very angry and would support any local effort that called the mayor and local leadership to account.

---

I guess I'm not sure why I should be angry? The effects of the initial protests calmed down after a week or two, and unless you live right near the county courthouse (hint: almost no one does) then almost any Oakland resident could easily go about their normal lives without being affected. There have also been plenty of peaceful marches in the last two months that resulted in nothing except some occasional heavy traffic. But you would actually have to live here to know that and not just follow the scariest-looking news reports.

From the reports I've seen it looks like there is usually a legitimate protest going on (perhaps for BLM or some similar cause) and then some other group breaks off and starts smashing stuff. Again, I support arresting people who do that -- WHEN they do it, not before. Yes, I suspect many of these people are just opportunists latching on to a moment when authorities may be distracted.

---

There's messaging in their actions. Why the federal courthouses? I don't see a connection between that and police brutality. It appears that the great majority of the thugs are white. I'd love to know more about the demographics: Locals? Wealthy kids with too much time on their hands? Substance abusers? Are some being paid?

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

I assume some of you live in or around Oakland. When you see rioters in downtown trying to burn down the federal courthouse, damage stores that you may frequent, vandalize the police station, and spray graffiti all over buildings, what do you feel inside? If you are sympathetic to the vandals in Portland and Seattle, do the same events much closer to home cause you to re-examine your stance?

---

I think those who try to set fires to buildings or smash windows should be arrested. That kind of behavior should not be supported.

I do not think this is anywhere near a majority of the protesters or the primary focus of the protests.

It's also not like this is happening all over the city. Well, maybe in the very early weeks of the Floyd protests you did see smashed windows in a lot of different neighborhoods. But as of now the fire at the courthouse is the only major incident of its type that has happened in about a month. From friends of mine who live in Portland I hear similar things: the protests and damage are limited to a few blocks downtown. I know some right-wing news outlets like to paint a picture of "American cities burning down" but it's not the case.

---

I basically agree. Yes, the center-right media will play up the unrest but at the same time the left wing media plays it down. I don't think the rioters are protesting anything at all from the images and footage I've seen. It appears to have taken the shape of illicit sport, where the participants have been emboldened by the lack of universal scorn and the comfort in knowing prosecution is highly unlikely. They've got a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to act out in ways they could only dream about and they aren't going to let it pass.

I'm asking about reactions because if I lived there I would be very angry and would support any local effort that called the mayor and local leadership to account.

---

I guess I'm not sure why I should be angry? The effects of the initial protests calmed down after a week or two, and unless you live right near the county courthouse (hint: almost no one does) then almost any Oakland resident could easily go about their normal lives without being affected. There have also been plenty of peaceful marches in the last two months that resulted in nothing except some occasional heavy traffic. But you would actually have to live here to know that and not just follow the scariest-looking news reports.

From the reports I've seen it looks like there is usually a legitimate protest going on (perhaps for BLM or some similar cause) and then some other group breaks off and starts smashing stuff. Again, I support arresting people who do that -- WHEN they do it, not before. Yes, I suspect many of these people are just opportunists latching on to a moment when authorities may be distracted.

---

There's messaging in their actions. Why the federal courthouses? I don't see a connection between that and police brutality. It appears that the great majority of the thugs are white. I'd love to know more about the demographics: Locals? Wealthy kids with too much time on their hands? Substance abusers? Are some being paid?

---

I'd love to know who the vandals are too, but obviously that's hard when they're in a crowd at night and probably wearing masks. Again, though, if they can be identified they should be prosecuted.

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

I assume some of you live in or around Oakland. When you see rioters in downtown trying to burn down the federal courthouse, damage stores that you may frequent, vandalize the police station, and spray graffiti all over buildings, what do you feel inside? If you are sympathetic to the vandals in Portland and Seattle, do the same events much closer to home cause you to re-examine your stance?

---

I think those who try to set fires to buildings or smash windows should be arrested. That kind of behavior should not be supported.

I do not think this is anywhere near a majority of the protesters or the primary focus of the protests.

It's also not like this is happening all over the city. Well, maybe in the very early weeks of the Floyd protests you did see smashed windows in a lot of different neighborhoods. But as of now the fire at the courthouse is the only major incident of its type that has happened in about a month. From friends of mine who live in Portland I hear similar things: the protests and damage are limited to a few blocks downtown. I know some right-wing news outlets like to paint a picture of "American cities burning down" but it's not the case.

---

I basically agree. Yes, the center-right media will play up the unrest but at the same time the left wing media plays it down. I don't think the rioters are protesting anything at all from the images and footage I've seen. It appears to have taken the shape of illicit sport, where the participants have been emboldened by the lack of universal scorn and the comfort in knowing prosecution is highly unlikely. They've got a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to act out in ways they could only dream about and they aren't going to let it pass.

I'm asking about reactions because if I lived there I would be very angry and would support any local effort that called the mayor and local leadership to account.

---

I guess I'm not sure why I should be angry? The effects of the initial protests calmed down after a week or two, and unless you live right near the county courthouse (hint: almost no one does) then almost any Oakland resident could easily go about their normal lives without being affected. There have also been plenty of peaceful marches in the last two months that resulted in nothing except some occasional heavy traffic. But you would actually have to live here to know that and not just follow the scariest-looking news reports.

From the reports I've seen it looks like there is usually a legitimate protest going on (perhaps for BLM or some similar cause) and then some other group breaks off and starts smashing stuff. Again, I support arresting people who do that -- WHEN they do it, not before. Yes, I suspect many of these people are just opportunists latching on to a moment when authorities may be distracted.

---

There's messaging in their actions. Why the federal courthouses? I don't see a connection between that and police brutality. It appears that the great majority of the thugs are white. I'd love to know more about the demographics: Locals? Wealthy kids with too much time on their hands? Substance abusers? Are some being paid?

---

I'd love to know who the vandals are too, but obviously that's hard when they're in a crowd at night and probably wearing masks. Again, though, if they can be identified they should be prosecuted.

---

How much force would you be willing to accept to arrest and prosecute those vandals?

calbear93 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

I assume some of you live in or around Oakland. When you see rioters in downtown trying to burn down the federal courthouse, damage stores that you may frequent, vandalize the police station, and spray graffiti all over buildings, what do you feel inside? If you are sympathetic to the vandals in Portland and Seattle, do the same events much closer to home cause you to re-examine your stance?

---

I think those who try to set fires to buildings or smash windows should be arrested. That kind of behavior should not be supported.

I do not think this is anywhere near a majority of the protesters or the primary focus of the protests.

It's also not like this is happening all over the city. Well, maybe in the very early weeks of the Floyd protests you did see smashed windows in a lot of different neighborhoods. But as of now the fire at the courthouse is the only major incident of its type that has happened in about a month. From friends of mine who live in Portland I hear similar things: the protests and damage are limited to a few blocks downtown. I know some right-wing news outlets like to paint a picture of "American cities burning down" but it's not the case.

---

I basically agree. Yes, the center-right media will play up the unrest but at the same time the left wing media plays it down. I don't think the rioters are protesting anything at all from the images and footage I've seen. It appears to have taken the shape of illicit sport, where the participants have been emboldened by the lack of universal scorn and the comfort in knowing prosecution is highly unlikely. They've got a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to act out in ways they could only dream about and they aren't going to let it pass.

I'm asking about reactions because if I lived there I would be very angry and would support any local effort that called the mayor and local leadership to account.

---

I guess I'm not sure why I should be angry? The effects of the initial protests calmed down after a week or two, and unless you live right near the county courthouse (hint: almost no one does) then almost any Oakland resident could easily go about their normal lives without being affected. There have also been plenty of peaceful marches in the last two months that resulted in nothing except some occasional heavy traffic. But you would actually have to live here to know that and not just follow the scariest-looking news reports.

From the reports I've seen it looks like there is usually a legitimate protest going on (perhaps for BLM or some similar cause) and then some other group breaks off and starts smashing stuff. Again, I support arresting people who do that -- WHEN they do it, not before. Yes, I suspect many of these people are just opportunists latching on to a moment when authorities may be distracted.

---

There's messaging in their actions. Why the federal courthouses? I don't see a connection between that and police brutality. It appears that the great majority of the thugs are white. I'd love to know more about the demographics: Locals? Wealthy kids with too much time on their hands? Substance abusers? Are some being paid?

---

I'd love to know who the vandals are too, but obviously that's hard when they're in a crowd at night and probably wearing masks. Again, though, if they can be identified they should be prosecuted.

---

How much force would you be willing to accept to arrest and prosecute those vandals?

---

I'm not sure how to answer that. Whatever is reasonably proportionate to the crime.

sycasey said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

I assume some of you live in or around Oakland. When you see rioters in downtown trying to burn down the federal courthouse, damage stores that you may frequent, vandalize the police station, and spray graffiti all over buildings, what do you feel inside? If you are sympathetic to the vandals in Portland and Seattle, do the same events much closer to home cause you to re-examine your stance?

---

I think those who try to set fires to buildings or smash windows should be arrested. That kind of behavior should not be supported.

I do not think this is anywhere near a majority of the protesters or the primary focus of the protests.

It's also not like this is happening all over the city. Well, maybe in the very early weeks of the Floyd protests you did see smashed windows in a lot of different neighborhoods. But as of now the fire at the courthouse is the only major incident of its type that has happened in about a month. From friends of mine who live in Portland I hear similar things: the protests and damage are limited to a few blocks downtown. I know some right-wing news outlets like to paint a picture of "American cities burning down" but it's not the case.

---

I basically agree. Yes, the center-right media will play up the unrest but at the same time the left wing media plays it down. I don't think the rioters are protesting anything at all from the images and footage I've seen. It appears to have taken the shape of illicit sport, where the participants have been emboldened by the lack of universal scorn and the comfort in knowing prosecution is highly unlikely. They've got a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to act out in ways they could only dream about and they aren't going to let it pass.

I'm asking about reactions because if I lived there I would be very angry and would support any local effort that called the mayor and local leadership to account.

---

I guess I'm not sure why I should be angry? The effects of the initial protests calmed down after a week or two, and unless you live right near the county courthouse (hint: almost no one does) then almost any Oakland resident could easily go about their normal lives without being affected. There have also been plenty of peaceful marches in the last two months that resulted in nothing except some occasional heavy traffic. But you would actually have to live here to know that and not just follow the scariest-looking news reports.

From the reports I've seen it looks like there is usually a legitimate protest going on (perhaps for BLM or some similar cause) and then some other group breaks off and starts smashing stuff. Again, I support arresting people who do that -- WHEN they do it, not before. Yes, I suspect many of these people are just opportunists latching on to a moment when authorities may be distracted.

---

There's messaging in their actions. Why the federal courthouses? I don't see a connection between that and police brutality. It appears that the great majority of the thugs are white. I'd love to know more about the demographics: Locals? Wealthy kids with too much time on their hands? Substance abusers? Are some being paid?

---

I'd love to know who the vandals are too, but obviously that's hard when they're in a crowd at night and probably wearing masks. Again, though, if they can be identified they should be prosecuted.

---

How much force would you be willing to accept to arrest and prosecute those vandals?

---

I'm not sure how to answer that. Whatever is reasonably proportionate to the crime.

---

Well, I think with the vandals high disregard for law and order, anything short of force you will most likely be uncomfortable with, they have free reign to wreak whatever havoc they want.

calbear93 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

I assume some of you live in or around Oakland. When you see rioters in downtown trying to burn down the federal courthouse, damage stores that you may frequent, vandalize the police station, and spray graffiti all over buildings, what do you feel inside? If you are sympathetic to the vandals in Portland and Seattle, do the same events much closer to home cause you to re-examine your stance?

---

I think those who try to set fires to buildings or smash windows should be arrested. That kind of behavior should not be supported.

I do not think this is anywhere near a majority of the protesters or the primary focus of the protests.

It's also not like this is happening all over the city. Well, maybe in the very early weeks of the Floyd protests you did see smashed windows in a lot of different neighborhoods. But as of now the fire at the courthouse is the only major incident of its type that has happened in about a month. From friends of mine who live in Portland I hear similar things: the protests and damage are limited to a few blocks downtown. I know some right-wing news outlets like to paint a picture of "American cities burning down" but it's not the case.

---

I basically agree. Yes, the center-right media will play up the unrest but at the same time the left wing media plays it down. I don't think the rioters are protesting anything at all from the images and footage I've seen. It appears to have taken the shape of illicit sport, where the participants have been emboldened by the lack of universal scorn and the comfort in knowing prosecution is highly unlikely. They've got a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to act out in ways they could only dream about and they aren't going to let it pass.

I'm asking about reactions because if I lived there I would be very angry and would support any local effort that called the mayor and local leadership to account.

---

I guess I'm not sure why I should be angry? The effects of the initial protests calmed down after a week or two, and unless you live right near the county courthouse (hint: almost no one does) then almost any Oakland resident could easily go about their normal lives without being affected. There have also been plenty of peaceful marches in the last two months that resulted in nothing except some occasional heavy traffic. But you would actually have to live here to know that and not just follow the scariest-looking news reports.

From the reports I've seen it looks like there is usually a legitimate protest going on (perhaps for BLM or some similar cause) and then some other group breaks off and starts smashing stuff. Again, I support arresting people who do that -- WHEN they do it, not before. Yes, I suspect many of these people are just opportunists latching on to a moment when authorities may be distracted.

---

There's messaging in their actions. Why the federal courthouses? I don't see a connection between that and police brutality. It appears that the great majority of the thugs are white. I'd love to know more about the demographics: Locals? Wealthy kids with too much time on their hands? Substance abusers? Are some being paid?

---

I'd love to know who the vandals are too, but obviously that's hard when they're in a crowd at night and probably wearing masks. Again, though, if they can be identified they should be prosecuted.

---

How much force would you be willing to accept to arrest and prosecute those vandals?

---

I'm not sure how to answer that. Whatever is reasonably proportionate to the crime.

---

Well, I think with the vandals high disregard for law and order, anything short of force you will most likely be uncomfortable with, they have free reign to wreak whatever havoc they want.

---

I guess I'll put it this way: if I see video of some cops running down and tackling some guys who just set fire to a building, I won't object to that. I'm not sure they need to be shot in the head. So, you know, proportionate force.

sycasey said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

I assume some of you live in or around Oakland. When you see rioters in downtown trying to burn down the federal courthouse, damage stores that you may frequent, vandalize the police station, and spray graffiti all over buildings, what do you feel inside? If you are sympathetic to the vandals in Portland and Seattle, do the same events much closer to home cause you to re-examine your stance?

---

I think those who try to set fires to buildings or smash windows should be arrested. That kind of behavior should not be supported.

I do not think this is anywhere near a majority of the protesters or the primary focus of the protests.

It's also not like this is happening all over the city. Well, maybe in the very early weeks of the Floyd protests you did see smashed windows in a lot of different neighborhoods. But as of now the fire at the courthouse is the only major incident of its type that has happened in about a month. From friends of mine who live in Portland I hear similar things: the protests and damage are limited to a few blocks downtown. I know some right-wing news outlets like to paint a picture of "American cities burning down" but it's not the case.

---

I basically agree. Yes, the center-right media will play up the unrest but at the same time the left wing media plays it down. I don't think the rioters are protesting anything at all from the images and footage I've seen. It appears to have taken the shape of illicit sport, where the participants have been emboldened by the lack of universal scorn and the comfort in knowing prosecution is highly unlikely. They've got a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to act out in ways they could only dream about and they aren't going to let it pass.

I'm asking about reactions because if I lived there I would be very angry and would support any local effort that called the mayor and local leadership to account.

---

I guess I'm not sure why I should be angry? The effects of the initial protests calmed down after a week or two, and unless you live right near the county courthouse (hint: almost no one does) then almost any Oakland resident could easily go about their normal lives without being affected. There have also been plenty of peaceful marches in the last two months that resulted in nothing except some occasional heavy traffic. But you would actually have to live here to know that and not just follow the scariest-looking news reports.

From the reports I've seen it looks like there is usually a legitimate protest going on (perhaps for BLM or some similar cause) and then some other group breaks off and starts smashing stuff. Again, I support arresting people who do that -- WHEN they do it, not before. Yes, I suspect many of these people are just opportunists latching on to a moment when authorities may be distracted.

---

There's messaging in their actions. Why the federal courthouses? I don't see a connection between that and police brutality. It appears that the great majority of the thugs are white. I'd love to know more about the demographics: Locals? Wealthy kids with too much time on their hands? Substance abusers? Are some being paid?

---

I'd love to know who the vandals are too, but obviously that's hard when they're in a crowd at night and probably wearing masks. Again, though, if they can be identified they should be prosecuted.

---

How much force would you be willing to accept to arrest and prosecute those vandals?

---

I'm not sure how to answer that. Whatever is reasonably proportionate to the crime.

---

Well, I think with the vandals high disregard for law and order, anything short of force you will most likely be uncomfortable with, they have free reign to wreak whatever havoc they want.

---

I guess I'll put it this way: if I see video of some cops running down and tackling some guys who just set fire to a building, I won't object to that. I'm not sure they need to be shot in the head. So, you know, proportionate force.

---

I think it's tough because I am still seeing cops struggling to find the right balance. By the way, would you be OK with shooting someone with molotov cocktail trying to set a building on fire if a family with little kids had died earlier in a fire started by "vandals"? Even in the calm of hindsight, it is hard for me to decide what is appropriate force. Must be hard for cops in the middle of that chaos with adrenalin flowing.