It's a shame the quality of the discourse here is so poor because given our diversity the potential for better exists.

Is the pleasure of posting here in the exchange of ideas, or in the conceived belittling of perceived opponents? Do you see us as we, or tribally as an us and them?

Nationally our animosity is trending ever higher and to what end?

It could just be our nature, deterministic I suppose. Or maybe we're capable of better. It's a lot to ask of a sports forum.

When you visit here what draws you?
When you post here, what's your motivation?

And yes, I get that I'm a fool for asking.

I like reading posts from the more intelligent and reasonable posters here. Only leaving rare comments myself. I don't comment much on the internet and very rarely do social media. To much idiocy that drives me crazy. I'd be leaving nasty, negative comments all over the place. So I sit back and let the adults talk. And check out the football and basketball forums. Also, it's amazing how helpful the ignore button is. Makes this place much more tolerable.

Oh, and I star posts I like. That's always fun.

I'll bite. I post for a variety of reasons:

1) COMMUNITY
I have been a part of this community from the the very beginning. Originally it was a place to joke with and learn from like-minded people. At the start, it was only about sports: recruiting guesses, game analysis, and insider observations from practice. That bubble was pleasurable. Here in a little corner of the emerging internet, you could talk about something you loved with other people who loved it too. In sports, we had the big bad PAC10 opposition with all their greater traditions and higher rated recruits, and Cal was always a seeming underdog, but you could come here and feel empowered because even if we lost a game we could laugh about it and celebrate the Cal experience and make it our own. This place made Cal more than just the sporting event, it was a culture of eternal fatalistic optimism. And, sometimes, we even won.

Our first controversies and tensions were around who should play, or plays that should have been called, and then if coaches should be fired. Like the sports world in general, sports banter became more aggressive and hostile and taking a position. The first divides in the community appeared.

Then, the real world started to leak in. Greater sports, university, and political issues became part of the debate. It has been a slow decline in the quality of discussion, and slow increase in partisanship aimed at "winning" some greater contest of political sport (or typically more about making others feel that they are the "losers") then it is about supporting a sense of community and learning from one another. In short, we went the way of the internet and are in a lot of ways no better than any SEC or 4Chan board. We have sock puppets and trolls and people who just want to argue. What used to be a haven and a feel good part of my day is now a mixed source of angst. So, community is the main reason I post here, but much of that has been lost.


2) KNOWLEDGE
There is such an interesting group of accomplished people on BI that I often get exposed to information and opinions that I would have never otherwise gained. This is when BI is at its best.


3) HABIT
For better or for worse, BI is built into my daily routine. It's one of about 5 sites that I check without really even thinking each day. It's the digital equivalent of walking to the end of the driveway and getting the morning paper. I wish it still had all the positive connotations of "starting my day off right."


4) CATHARSIS
Be it a devastating loss in football or something devastating in the political theater, there is something cathartic to put your words down and having your "community" affirm and echo your experience. This post itself is a good example.


5) DEFENSE OF THE GOOD
Ethical positions in both the sports and political realms are increasingly drowned out by "having a take," ""if you aren't cheating you aren't trying," "greed is good," and "win at any cost" rationalizations for the degradation of principles and the higher mission of life and sport. In some small way, and with full self-awareness of the pompousness of this claim, I believe that posting here contributes and defends a worthwhile counter argument, that seeds are planted, that if enough people contribute to the persistence of good, it disseminates.


6) ANTIDOTE
Positions here I disagree with are the same I hear stated on the news and by some friends and family. Posts I make and others I read, give me a sense of relief and affirmation (you can perhaps call it confirmation bias) that not EVERYONE feels these things and that there are really rational, factual antidotes to a lot of the poison of partisanship.


7) ACCOUNTABILITY
Making a record of a position offers some limited accountability for my own thoughts and for those who disagree with me. Unfortunately, there is a rise in never admitting you are wrong, moving the goalposts, and just out and out denial of what is written in black and white. Somehow I feel like this discourse, if you can call it that, helps to create digital footholds in an increasingly post-truth, gaslighting reality.


8) IMPROVE CAL SPORTS
This of course used to be the primary objective. But in the years since and the way the chatter has evolved, this gets lost. The hope is that by the critical eye of a community and the collective celebration of the best parts of the Cal experience, the powers-that-be are guided and steered.


9) DRIVE TRAFFIC
I post to drive internet traffic.


10) PASS ON TRADITIONS
Like seniors (or in this case senior citizens) passing on traditions to freshmen, this place is a reservoir of Cal culture, nostalgia, and history. This library passes on our collective version of fandom and perhaps is part of expanding and entrenching our fan base. How else would one know the meanings of (we need a pinned Bear Insider glossary by the way):

• Albany Bowl
• Please Don
• Boston Market
• Blame Buh
• Long Island Ice Tea
• Booth
• Woofing Gods
• Blocked Numbers
• Custom Mouthguards
• Holmoecast
• Two Baskets and a Ball
• 360 Degrees
• In Tedford We Trust

Don't forget to add:
Virtue signaling
Social justice Warrior
Straw man
tRump Derangement Syndrome
..and a number of other terms from the Alt Right Glossary that frequently pepper this board but that currently elude me.

Long Island Ice Tea and Albany Bowl go together, correct?

I'd add Korean firefighter and gf

This is an important thread. I didn't go to Cal but my daughter does. I just pay Cal. I started with the football forum because I wanted a place to talk Cal sports, and this was the best forum for it. I have another kid at UCLA, and for some reason there isn't an equivalent Bruin forum of the same quality.

One day I wandered over to the Off Topic forum and found some very interesting and intelligent discussions. I joined the fray, and most of the time--in the beginning--the exchanges were interesting but only occasionally testy. But what I have found is that once a core group of people see your position repeatedly--especially if it's not a far left stance--it really triggers an emotional response, and too often the poster becomes a target rather than the poster's content. This is to be expected on occasion, but I've found this to be a more common occurrence as time goes on. Some of the nasty exchanges on here that thankfully I have not been a part of, have really surprised me in their intensity. Strip away the fancy degrees and underneath it all we're just neanderthals I suppose.

The problem with attacking posters with other points of view, especially if it's the minority view, is that the forum slowly devolves into a back-slapping echo chamber. That would decrease the value and richness of the forum. One should keep in mind that even a center-right view on a Berkeley forum is equivalent to the majority of the posters here participating on a Liberty University forum.

Who could ever forget:
Forge Bond
Or Eric Lorig ?

Originally started to post about football and recruiting as I followed high school football in California. Just wandered on to the Off-Topic page one day and started reading the topics. Love to hear commentary on topics of the day and felt like I could add something to the discussions. I continually try to provide constructive comments on topics that I have knowledge of. I enjoy the spirited exchange of ideas and different points of view. The problem comes when I'm attacked with words like despicable, hanging, scumbag, immoral, and liar. I make it a point to never attack a poster unless attacked first, I cannot and will not let a personal attack go and will respond in kind if need be. I have attempted to be deferential in these instances but feel that repeat offenders are fair game.

LMK5 said:

---

This is an important thread. I didn't go to Cal but my daughter does. I just pay Cal. I started with the football forum because I wanted a place to talk Cal sports, and this was the best forum for it. I have another kid at UCLA, and for some reason there isn't an equivalent Bruin forum of the same quality.

One day I wandered over to the Off Topic forum and found some very interesting and intelligent discussions. I joined the fray, and most of the time--in the beginning--the exchanges were interesting but only occasionally testy. But what I have found is that once a core group of people see your position repeatedly--especially if it's not a far left stance--it really triggers an emotional response, and too often the poster becomes a target rather than the poster's content. This is to be expected on occasion, but I've found this to be a more common occurrence as time goes on. Some of the nasty exchanges on here that thankfully I have not been a part of, have really surprised me in their intensity. Strip away the fancy degrees and underneath it all we're just neanderthals I suppose.

The problem with attacking posters with other points of view, especially if it's the minority view, is that the forum slowly devolves into a back-slapping echo chamber. That would decrease the value and richness of the forum. One should keep in mind that even a center-right view on a Berkeley forum is equivalent to the majority of the posters here participating on a Liberty University forum.

---

I appreciate you taking the time to reply LMKS, and agree that not just on this forum, but more broadly, particularly in educated circles, conservative opinions are increasingly in the minority and so understandably potentially more on the defensive.

I would say, that the concept of political center, left, and right is not static and has been swinging right for the past 4+ decades after what was a period of decidedly left swing.

(As an example, the ACA is to the right of healthcare proposals made by the Nixon administration, and its structure and general concept was created by The Heritage Foundation - it was conceived as the free market solution. But you'd never know that based on the current right's reaction to it.) Please let's not derail into a discussion of healthcare here.

As such, I find those labels increasingly more harmful than helpful, but difficult to get away from.

Drifted here a while ago and sat on the sidelines for years. Fortunate enough to have played football at Cal, served my country, and continued serving in my community. Proud of all three and the commitment and determination it took to achieve them.

Recently, I took an ill advised turn off of growls and landed in this place. Put a bunch of things out there and stand behind them regardless of what came back at me. Found that my love for Cal and Cal football just isn't what it used to be. Loved taking my boys to see Cal games and see their love grow as well. But as the father of a very talented football player with many options coming his way, I've moved him off Cal and onto other schools. Fortunately, he didn't mind as he's seen what Cal football can do to a person over the course of too many coulda, woulda, shouldas.

Always entertained by OT and rarely disappointed or surprised.

drizzlybears brother said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

This is an important thread. I didn't go to Cal but my daughter does. I just pay Cal. I started with the football forum because I wanted a place to talk Cal sports, and this was the best forum for it. I have another kid at UCLA, and for some reason there isn't an equivalent Bruin forum of the same quality.

One day I wandered over to the Off Topic forum and found some very interesting and intelligent discussions. I joined the fray, and most of the time--in the beginning--the exchanges were interesting but only occasionally testy. But what I have found is that once a core group of people see your position repeatedly--especially if it's not a far left stance--it really triggers an emotional response, and too often the poster becomes a target rather than the poster's content. This is to be expected on occasion, but I've found this to be a more common occurrence as time goes on. Some of the nasty exchanges on here that thankfully I have not been a part of, have really surprised me in their intensity. Strip away the fancy degrees and underneath it all we're just neanderthals I suppose.

The problem with attacking posters with other points of view, especially if it's the minority view, is that the forum slowly devolves into a back-slapping echo chamber. That would decrease the value and richness of the forum. One should keep in mind that even a center-right view on a Berkeley forum is equivalent to the majority of the posters here participating on a Liberty University forum.

---

I appreciate you taking the time to reply LMKS, and agree that not just on this forum, but more broadly, particularly in educated circles, conservative opinions are increasingly in the minority and so understandably potentially more on the defensive.

I would say, that the concept of political center, left, and right is not static and has been swinging right for the past 4+ decades after what was a period of decidedly left swing.

(As an example, the ACA is to the right of healthcare proposals made by the Nixon administration, and its structure and general concept was created by The Heritage Foundation - it was conceived as the free market solution. But you'd never know that based on the current right's reaction to it.) Please let's not derail into a discussion of healthcare here.

As such, I find those labels increasingly more harmful than helpful, but difficult to get away from.

---

That's very interesting.

blungld said:

---

10) PASS ON TRADITIONS
Like seniors (or in this case senior citizens) passing on traditions to freshmen, this place is a reservoir of Cal culture, nostalgia, and history. This library passes on our collective version of fandom and perhaps is part of expanding and entrenching our fan base. How else would one know the meanings of (we need a pinned Bear Insider glossary by the way):

• Albany Bowl
• Please Don
• Boston Market
• Blame Buh
• Long Island Ice Tea
• Booth
• Woofing Gods
• Blocked Numbers
• Custom Mouthguards
• Holmoecast
• Two Baskets and a Ball
• 360 Degrees
• In Tedford We Trust

---

Don't forget hatters gonna hat. And Amy.

drizzlybears brother said:

---

It's a shame the quality of the discourse here is so poor because given our diversity the potential for better exists.

Is the pleasure of posting here in the exchange of ideas, or in the conceived belittling of perceived opponents? Do you see us as we, or tribally as an us and them?

Nationally our animosity is trending ever higher and to what end?

It could just be our nature, deterministic I suppose. Or maybe we're capable of better. It's a lot to ask of a sports forum.

When you visit here what draws you?
When you post here, what's your motivation?

And yes, I get that I'm a fool for asking.

---

There are intelligent liberal posters with whom I may disagree (sometimes violently) but who do challenge my assumptions. That is tempered by those three fake progressive trolls whom I try to ignore but who just keep insisting on posting non-substantive tribal insults. With those, I just return the insults even though I should just continue to ignore them. That is the part that I least enjoy. But there are intelligent or clever liberal posters who provide good counterpoints to my beliefs.

I started coming over to the OT board when...

There was less Cal sports going on because of COVID (and less contact with my friends, in general)

There were interesting discussions here about COVID.

Wondering what happened to all the "OT" threads on Growls, it finally dawned on me that people were actually posting here (it was at one time merely a wasteland).


Compared to most Americans, I am surely to the left of center, but on this board I seem to fill a more moderate niche, so In a good week, I will be able to catch some s*** from both sides! I liken this to, in basketball, working on my "off" hand: Can be a valuable skill to have! My pet peeve here is folks who are at one end of the political spectrum or the other and are so sure they're right that they won't even legitimately discuss their POV, beyond being dismissive or derisive.

blungld said:

---

9) DRIVE TRAFFIC
I post to drive internet traffic.

---

But I thought this all died once drunkoski left the boards.

Big C said:

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. . . My pet peeve here is folks who are at one end of the political spectrum or the other and are so sure they're right that they won't even legitimately discuss their POV, beyond being dismissive or derisive.

---

Indeed, and these people marginalize themselves in doing so.

My questions were more rhetorical (although the replies are great) as I was trying to make the point that there are more constructive ways to comment, and reminding people that we're more persuasive when we give our respect. With my kids I'm regularly reminding them that they set their own standard, and that their peers' behavior is irrelevant. And yes, there's some of the "as I say" more than the "as I do."

More important is our openness to being persuaded, and that's where I have more doubt. It depends on whether you believe us to be first rational, or first emotional in how we take in info. I think it's more likely the latter, and that has big implications on the limits of rational dialogue.

Here's one thing I'm pretty much certain on - everything I understand about the world is wrong. And I'm pretty sure that so too are you. (the generic you, that is to say all of us)

It helps me try to better understand which parts I've got wrong, and I'll most likely find that from people with whom I disagree. It becomes harder to take people seriously who don't actively seek out opposing views, but if you ask most people, they're hard pressed to name even one go-to source.

And since I've gotten this far, and this indulgent, I'll cap it with the idea that has helped on this front, and that I've been slow to come around on, and that is the epiphany that it's me there in the eyes of my foe. Except of course during Big Game week. I'm only human.

sycasey said:

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blungld said:

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9) DRIVE TRAFFIC
I post to drive internet traffic.

---

But I thought this all died once drunkoski left the boards.

---

Another inside joke, like "Booth!"!

Big C said:

---

sycasey said:

---

blungld said:

---

9) DRIVE TRAFFIC
I post to drive internet traffic.

---

But I thought this all died once drunkoski left the boards.

---

Another inside joke, like "Booth!"!

---

As much as I was annoyed by his take on Tedford and the mods, he did have the best avatar.

sycasey said:

---

blungld said:

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9) DRIVE TRAFFIC
I post to drive internet traffic.

---

But I thought this all died once drunkoski left the boards.

---

Yeah, I couldn't help making a nod to that epic brag.

calbear93 said:

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Big C said:

---

sycasey said:

---

blungld said:

---

9) DRIVE TRAFFIC
I post to drive internet traffic.

---

But I thought this all died once drunkoski left the boards.

---

Another inside joke, like "Booth!"!

---

As much as I was annoyed by his take on Tedford and the mods, he did have the best avatar.

---

The dude just loved to argue too much (the current OT board shows he's not the only one). My favorite debate with him was when he insisted that DeSean Jackson was too lazy and checked-out to even bother chasing the cornerback when UCLA intercepted a pass to beat us in 2007, and then even when I presented video evidence that in fact DeSean did try to chase the guy (but had no prayer of catching him) he still insisted that he was right. Sometimes his desire to win an argument could be pathological.

Sometimes?

I come because I think it's funny.

hanky1 said:

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I come because I think it's funny.

---

hanky1, you've had some great lines over the years, but this might be numero uno. does your wife read this board?

Matthew Patel said:

---

Bear70 said:

---

Drifted here a while ago and sat on the sidelines for years. Fortunate enough to have played football at Cal, served my country, and continued serving in my community. Proud of all three and the commitment and determination it took to achieve them.

Recently, I took an ill advised turn off of growls and landed in this place. Put a bunch of things out there and stand behind them regardless of what came back at me. Found that my love for Cal and Cal football just isn't what it used to be. Loved taking my boys to see Cal games and see their love grow as well. But as the father of a very talented football player with many options coming his way, I've moved him off Cal and onto other schools. Fortunately, he didn't mind as he's seen what Cal football can do to a person over the course of too many coulda, woulda, shouldas.

Always entertained by OT and rarely disappointed or surprised.

---

Too bad you didn't learn anything while you were here.

---

Ah, didn't take long for the first strike.
Maybe you're right but thanks to you all for picking up my tuition, room/board, and food.
At least being uneducated didn't cost me a nickel.

Maybe I'll attack Jews like MeSean. I'll be a hero here if I do that. That good learnin' at Cal then I be educated.

Just put him on ignore.
How'd you lose your lovin feeling for Cal?

Bear70 said:

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Maybe I'll attack Jews like MeSean. I'll be a hero here if I do that. That good learnin' at Cal then I be educated.

---

Why'd you add this to your post?

Never mind, I looked up some of your previous posts. You prefer to dish it, but not take it.

drizzlybears brother said:

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Bear70 said:

---

Maybe I'll attack Jews like MeSean. I'll be a hero here if I do that. That good learnin' at Cal then I be educated.

---

Why'd you add this to your post?

---

Patel brings out the worst in us all I suppose.
Was more for me.
DeSean is a decent football player who can say whatever he wants and gets away with it even though he is a Cal product...kinda. I don't think he graduated or maybe American Studies.
I was not DeSean on the field, I chose to serve my country, serve my community....contribute to a better life everywhere I went. Yet, I'm the nut job because my views don't align on the board and I don't get to say Long Beach Poly or Cal (if we're all lucky) on MNF. May not play well in the thread but I'll roll the dice.

drizzlybears brother said:

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Bear70 said:

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Maybe I'll attack Jews like MeSean. I'll be a hero here if I do that. That good learnin' at Cal then I be educated.

---

Why'd you add this to your post?

Never mind, I looked up some of your previous posts. You prefer to dish it, but not take it.

---

Yep, can I use your safe space or do I need to get a reservation through BI?

Bear70 said:

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drizzlybears brother said:

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Bear70 said:

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Maybe I'll attack Jews like MeSean. I'll be a hero here if I do that. That good learnin' at Cal then I be educated.

---

Why'd you add this to your post?

Never mind, I looked up some of your previous posts. You prefer to dish it, but not take it.

---

Yep, can I use your safe space or do I need to get a reservation through BI?

---

I'll take your reservation, but I'm not your problem. You see enemies everywhere.

Still curious why you lost your love for Cal.

Matthew Patel said:

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LMK5 said:

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I didn't go to Cal

---

That was obvious

---

You fell for the trap Higgins. It's posters like you that likely inspired dbb to initiate this thread.

Wow. You are really good at speaking for other people - like you know what is in their heads and what motivates them. It's like you are some kind of magic mind reader. I am in awe of your special talents. /s

drizzlybears brother said:

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Bear70 said:

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drizzlybears brother said:

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Bear70 said:

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Maybe I'll attack Jews like MeSean. I'll be a hero here if I do that. That good learnin' at Cal then I be educated.

---

Why'd you add this to your post?

Never mind, I looked up some of your previous posts. You prefer to dish it, but not take it.

---

Yep, can I use your safe space or do I need to get a reservation through BI?

---

I'll take your reservation, but I'm not your problem. You see enemies everywhere.

Still curious why you lost your love for Cal.

---

Hey, DBB, I know you are trying to create a trend of less tribalistic knee-jerk posts, but when you only point out the conservative posters while this board is littered with knee-jerk, non-substantive insults by the typical liberal trolls, you may be less influential. I myself have been ignoring the worst three liberal trolls despite the fact that they continue to seek my attention, but calling out Bear70 and no one else seems one sided.

calbear93 said:

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drizzlybears brother said:

---

Bear70 said:

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drizzlybears brother said:

---

Bear70 said:

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Maybe I'll attack Jews like MeSean. I'll be a hero here if I do that. That good learnin' at Cal then I be educated.

---

Why'd you add this to your post?

Never mind, I looked up some of your previous posts. You prefer to dish it, but not take it.

---

Yep, can I use your safe space or do I need to get a reservation through BI?

---

I'll take your reservation, but I'm not your problem. You see enemies everywhere.

Still curious why you lost your love for Cal.

---

Hey, DBB, I know you are trying to create a trend of less tribalistic knee-jerk posts, but when you only point out the conservative posters while this board is littered with knee-jerk, non-substantive insults by the typical liberal trolls, you may be less influential. I myself have been ignoring the worst three liberal trolls despite the fact that they continue to seek my attention, but calling out Bear70 and no one else seems one sided.

---

I'm sure I have that likely bias, but (of course there's a butt) in this instance my initial reply was to support him after being attacked where I suggested he just ignore the guy. But as I was typing that he edited his post to add a reference to "Jews like MeSean" which I didn't understand. So in checking his profile, where you only really see posts not in context, I saw multiple references to p*ssies, p*ssification, etc. And I realized that in at least those instances he wasn't improving the situation here. If I called him out after that it was because he was taking issue with me.

I'm not trying to be a manners police here, and I'll admit, I don't read the posts with which I'm likely to agree in as much detail as I read the ones challenging my take, in part because I feel like I'm largely aware of those arguments already. I take your point that my comments are more useful if they are more evenly applied.

I remain interested in learning how it is that Bear 70 lost his Cal FB mojo. He has a talented fb son whom he has dissuaded from pursuing Cal and that just seems really unusual, particularly for someone who remains part of this community.

I can see a parent discouraging the whole D1 athletics burden in college, but I hadn't considered limiting that to just Cal. Given Bear 70 played for Cal I'm guessing he has some interesting insights.

AunBear89 said:

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Wow. You are really good at speaking for other people - like you know what is in their heads and what motivates them. It's like you are some kind of magic mind reader. I am in awe of your special talents. /s

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You fell for the trap. It's schoolyard brat posters like you who can't put together more than two sentences at a time that degrade the forum.

Big C said:

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hanky1 said:

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I come because I think it's funny.

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hanky1, you've had some great lines over the years, but this might be numero uno. does your wife read this board?

---

You know I've been posting to this community since I think 2003. I started lurking in 2002. I started posted after that Bowl Game versus Virgina Tech where Aaron Rodgers tore it up. I think my first post was to declare that Aaron Rodgers was the greatest Cal qb ever (it's too bad he sucks now).

Funny thing is I never even bothered reading the OT board until a few months ago. My mistake. I didn't realize how much fun it was to come here. Now I come here everyday. I know many enjoy it when I come here so I just want to keep everyone happy and come everyday.