Total cl$terf$ck but no way murder sticks. He was chased and shots were fired before firing his weapon. Excellent video work here by NYT. Watch the whole pinned thread

https://twitter.com/trbrtc

Golden One said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Golden One said:

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I agree this is a sad situation. But if the mayor in Kenosha was doing his job of controlling the violence, arson, etc., maybe the kid wouldn't have felt the need to act on his own. Spineless and weak political leaders who refuse to even try to quell violence are ultimately responsible.



Liberalism is a mental illness.

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Kenosha is a small city. They have a handful of murders per year, it's not Syria. This idea that every city in America should have a strongman mayor or Judge Dredd to extra-judicially enforce the law is unsettling, to say the least. Is that the kind of city you think everyone in America wants to live in?

There is plenty of blame to go around here, but I don't think you have any rational basis to conclude that a lack of strength from the mayor is what allowed this tragedy to occur.

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It's not about "extra-judicially" enforcing the law. Rather, it's about enforcing the law, period. Why is it OK to stand back while people are conducting violence and arson? Seems to me that's breaking the law, and that's NOT OK. Peacful protesting is one thing, violence is another.



Liberalism is a mental illness.

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Here's a statement from the Kenosha sheriff in 2018. Isn't this the sort of tough guy rhetoric you encourage?

By the way, he's talking about shoplifters.

Anarchistbear said:

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Total cl$terf$ck but no way murder sticks. He was chased and shots were fired before firing his weapon. Excellent video work here by NYT. Watch the whole pinned thread

https://twitter.com/trbrtc

---

This would seem to be the key question here:

We see Rittenhouse is being chased by people into a lot. Not clear why. There is another gunshot, but it seems to be way over on the other side of the street so it doesn't seem like they're shooting at him (though I dunno, maybe someone did at some point).

sycasey said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Total cl$terf$ck but no way murder sticks. He was chased and shots were fired before firing his weapon. Excellent video work here by NYT. Watch the whole pinned thread

https://twitter.com/trbrtc

---

This would seem to be the key question here:

We see Rittenhouse is being chased by people into a lot. Not clear why. There is another gunshot, but it seems to be way over on the other side of the street so it doesn't seem like they're shooting at him (though I dunno, maybe someone did at some point).

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It's a gun-related incident. Let's wait for Bearister's input.

sycasey said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Total cl$terf$ck but no way murder sticks. He was chased and shots were fired before firing his weapon. Excellent video work here by NYT. Watch the whole pinned thread

https://twitter.com/trbrtc

---

This would seem to be the key question here:

We see Rittenhouse is being chased by people into a lot. Not clear why. There is another gunshot, but it seems to be way over on the other side of the street so it doesn't seem like they're shooting at him (though I dunno, maybe someone did at some point).

---

I'd guess scared s$itless. He's playing at something and then people are chasing him with weapons and rounds are being fired.

LMK5 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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LMK5 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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LMK5 said:

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OaktownBear said:

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LMK5 said:

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I'm not surprised at all, but it is interesting how so many on the board are in a hissy-fit over this Rittenhouse kid but have never uttered a dissenting word against the rioters, looters, arsonists, and killers during the ongoing riots in so many cities. The left's rage seems very surgical. You are drowning in your own hypocrisy.

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Because property damage is the same as murder.

There are bad people on both sides amirite?

Curious that outrage over murder is called a hissy fit. Okay.

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Really? Where was your outrage when a black man holding a Trump sign was gunned down? Show me your posts of condemnation. https://www.wkrg.com/national/black-trump-supporter-shot-killed-outside-his-business/

Show me your posts of outrage when people were killed in CHOP/CHAZ despite warnings of what would happen if authorities didn't take control:https://www.king5.com/article/news/crime/seattle-shooting-capitol-hill-chop-chaz/281-48392a9e-d760-42f3-9469-c99466ed7a9f

Where's your outrage when a federal officer is killed in your hometown for Christ sakes?: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/authorities-identify-federal-officer-killed-oakland-during-george-floyd-protest-n1220516

Of course no one expects you to shed a tear when the Alameda courthouse is set on fire in, once again, your own hometown:https://ktla.com/news/california/alameda-county-superior-courthouse-set-on-fire-by-agitators-during-oakland-protest/

It's just pathetic that you and your power-to-the-people brethren can't yield one inch, even when the anarchy and destruction affects your neighbors in your own damn backyard.

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To my knowledge, there are no suspects in any of the killings you are asking about. That's a pretty big distinction. This thread is really about the Killer, not the people he killed. I don't think anyone has condoned or glorified those other killings - we just don't really have much to go on.

I don't know what makes the first one any different from the thousands of people who are gunned down each year that you don't care about. An african-american sitting in a lawn chair in front of his business was shot in broad daylight. Are you saying that because he happened to be a Trump fan that it should be covered differently? Despite your claim, the article made it sound like he wasn't even carrying a Trump sign or engaging in pro-Trump activity at that time, he was literally just sitting in a chair in front of his store. It sounds like he made pro Trump signs and may have carried them at other times. I think it's curious and hope they find the killer but this sounds like a pretty non-descript drive-by killing, unless you have information to the contrary. I believe 2nd amendment fans tell us that this is the price of freedom.

Rittenhouse's shootings are on video and under extremely strange circumstances. He is a high school kid who drove up from Illinois to get involved. He was encouraged by the police to walk around with his AR-15. He killed people and then walked towards the police with his hands up and they did nothing.

You don't see why this is a compelling story?

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It is a compelling story. The question is, would it be just as compelling to the media if he were a left wing nut who did exactly the same thing? You and everyone else who's breathing knows the answer. If that black man were holding a BLM sign and was gunned down in broad daylight you don't think the media would've made a grand spectacle of it? No stores were looted or burned precisely because of that Trump sign, suspect or not. Do you think just because there isn't a suspect that that would affect the media's coverage or the extent (or lack of) outrage on this board? As Joe would say: come on man!

Take a step back. The denial and lack of condemnation from the Democrats is going to make this a 50/50 race when it should be a slam dunk for Biden.

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Are you still referring to the Trump sign that doesn't exist? You're fighting really hard for your strawman.

Americans are gunned down on the streets in cold blood every day of the year and whether or not there are protests or media interest has a lot more to do with the identity of the killer and the narrative, than anything else.

Why don't you call for your fellow republicans to individually condemn every single murder that takes place in this country? There are a number of reasons that doesn't happen. If Bernell Trammell were said to be a Biden supporter, we wouldn't be having this conversation because you wouldn't care. If we did anyway, what would you say? You seem to enjoy to make up facts and motives, so why don't you tell us how it would go. I can only surmise that it would be similar to every other conversation like this. Someone like you would point out that the victim had a record, or knew people who had a record, etc.

If Rittenhouse were a black victim of a police officer shooting, this is probably what they:

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Give it up. Trammell was a well known Trump supporter: https://www.kltv.com/2020/07/29/black-trump-supporter-fatally-shot-outside-his-milwaukee-business/

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Why is this relevant? Because right wing media told you there must be a connection? When known Biden supporting African Americans are killed do you make the same distinction? Is there an epidemic of shootings of pro-Trumpers that we're all unaware of?

I hope they find the killer and that he or she is brought to justice but there really is no story here, despite how much right wing media wants to make it so. At this point, it's extremely unlikely that someone went to the trouble, and the risk, or doing a drive by shooting in broad daylight because the guy had been known to carry pro-Trump signs.

sycasey said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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sycasey said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Total cl$terf$ck but no way murder sticks. He was chased and shots were fired before firing his weapon. Excellent video work here by NYT. Watch the whole pinned thread

https://twitter.com/trbrtc

---

This would seem to be the key question here:

We see Rittenhouse is being chased by people into a lot. Not clear why. There is another gunshot, but it seems to be way over on the other side of the street so it doesn't seem like they're shooting at him (though I dunno, maybe someone did at some point).

---

I'd guess scared s$itless. He's playing at something and then people are chasing him with weapons and rounds are being fired.

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Yes, he probably got spooked when s*** started getting real. But of course, s*** is highly likely to get real when you carry a big-a** rifle into a late-night protest.

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Especially where protestors are armed and more experienced than your fantasy role playing.

OaktownBear said:

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kelly09 said:

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hanky1 said:

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When Tucker Carlson is trending on Twitter, it's because hews right

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But these are not the apparent concerns of those who carry off shoes and phones in U-Hauls, kick the unconscious on the pavement, destroy art and sculpture, or seek to torch public buildings with public servants inside.
The point of the mob is to wipe out what it cannot create.
It topples what it can neither match nor even comprehend.
It would erode the very system that ensures it singular freedom, leisure and historic affluence.
The brand of the anarchist is not logic but envy-driven power: to take it, to keep it, and to use it against purported enemies which would otherwise be impossible in times of calm or through the ballot box.
VDH

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I heard a good point on the radio. Whenever a cop does something obviously (well to the sane among us) egregious, the argument is most cops are good and we are asked to consider the best of the cops instead of a few bad apples. Then the same people turnaround and demand we only consider the worst people among the protesters and want them to represent the whole group.

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Quote:

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I heard a good point on this forum: Whenever a significant portion of protesters are peaceful, we are told the protest is mostly peaceful and we are asked to focus on the peaceful protests instead of the "outside agitators." Then the same people turnaround and demand we only consider the worst incidents among the police and want them to represent the whole group.

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Crazy how that works, right? It wasn't even difficult.

Anarchistbear said:

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Total cl$terf$ck but no way murder sticks. He was chased and shots were fired before firing his weapon. Excellent video work here by NYT. Watch the whole pinned thread

https://twitter.com/trbrtc

---

Oh yeah, thats interesting. Zero chance of a conviction. He was legally armed and can argue he felt threatened if someone started shooting.

Then he tries to flee, and armed people chase him? Thats also self defense.

This is why people shouldn't ****ing try to passively display their "right" to bring firearms to an INTENTIONALLY confrontational exercise of a separate right. Bring a gun if you want to escalate to shooting.

Two people are dead because one idiot shot his gun around a scared moron kid, and then other people with guns chased him around... Absurd.

There is that story of another protester pointing his AK at a truck and getting smoked in a similar situation. Guns and protests dont mix. Mixing them almost necessarily escalates. That goes for Covid protests, bundy protests, etc.

And I am pro second amendment and pro first amendment (both with limitation of course).

" I heard a good point on this forum: Whenever a significant portion of protesters are peaceful, we are told the protest is mostly peaceful and we are asked to focus on the peaceful protests instead of the "outside agitators." Then the same people turnaround and demand we only consider the worst incidents among the police and want them to represent the whole group."

Well, that is true and it points out hypocrisy. However, there is a little more gravity to a cop murdering someone than a looter causing property damage.

The only murders that come to mind connected to the recent protests are the Federal contractor killed by Steven Carrillo, the Alt Right psychopath and the victims of the vigilante, the Kenosha Kid.

As an eye witness to the destruction of Oakland by ANTIFA/Black bloc during Occupy Oakland, I really wish BLM would do everything they can to undermine them and prevent them from co opting the movement and creating a narrative that drives scared old White people into the chubby arms and Ken doll hands of tRump.

Anarchistbear said:

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sycasey said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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sycasey said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Total cl$terf$ck but no way murder sticks. He was chased and shots were fired before firing his weapon. Excellent video work here by NYT. Watch the whole pinned thread

https://twitter.com/trbrtc

---

This would seem to be the key question here:

We see Rittenhouse is being chased by people into a lot. Not clear why. There is another gunshot, but it seems to be way over on the other side of the street so it doesn't seem like they're shooting at him (though I dunno, maybe someone did at some point).

---

I'd guess scared s$itless. He's playing at something and then people are chasing him with weapons and rounds are being fired.

---

Yes, he probably got spooked when s*** started getting real. But of course, s*** is highly likely to get real when you carry a big-a** rifle into a late-night protest.

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Especially where protestors are armed and more experienced than your fantasy role playing.

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None of them know what they are doing. A firearm in any of their hands is a tragic outcome waiting to happen.

bearister said:

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" I heard a good point on this forum: Whenever a significant portion of protesters are peaceful, we are told the protest is mostly peaceful and we are asked to focus on the peaceful protests instead of the "outside agitators." Then the same people turnaround and demand we only consider the worst incidents among the police and want them to represent the whole group."

Well, that is true and it points out hypocrisy. However, there is a little more gravity to a cop murdering someone than a looter causing property damage.

The only murders that come to mind connected to the recent protests are the Federal contractor killed by Steven Carrillo, the Alt Right psychopath and the victims of the vigilante, the Kenosha Kid.

---

Its interesting that you would expose your bias so openly. It is not as though you couldn't use google. See the bias in reporting isnt just straight omission. It is also frequency of discussing incidents and not frequently reporting others. There is also location Bias (two guys shot in Oakland is enormously more importaint to me than someone killed across the country, for example). There is also conformation bias, where you only seek out information to support your claims that everything is done by the "alt-right" or "looters" or law-enforcement.

Here are a few names:

DAVID DORN: Killed by looters while he attempted to prevent looting of his pawn shop
CHRIS BEATY: Circumstances unknown. While at a protest, attempted to help a mugging victem and was shot
ITALIA KELLY: Possibly killed by random gunfire while leaving a protest that had escalated
MARQUIS TOUSANT: Killed when protesters shot 13 times at police officers. Collateral damage.
JAVAR HARRELL: Killed when an unknown person fired into a car during a protest.
JOSE GUTIERREZ: Bi-stander shot while looters were ... looting by a looter. This one has an arrest: Zion Haygood, a Black man if that matters (probably not alt-right).
VICTOR CAZARES JR.: Shot in a separate incident the same area and day as Jose.
MARVIN FRANCOIS: Chot by car jackers while trying to leave a protest.

Some of them are unrelated. Some are directly related. Some may be alt-right agitators. Some may be criminals hiding in protests.

I left out people shot by police, like JORGE GOMEZ, or Protesters/looters/bistanders killed accidentally while protesting, like BARRY PERKINS III, or people killed while attacking other people, like JAMES SCURLOCK or CALVIN HORTON JR..

But seriously. You can hold your opinions, and still be informed. It doesnt diminish your foundation. It strengthens your position when you can acknowledge shades. We, here, should be better than focusing only on what supports our claims of absolutes.

Thanks for the information more than the patronizing lecture you packaged it in.
Did you collect the information near the time it occurred or research it after the fact? Where did you locate the information?
I didn't ignore your information when I posted my comment, I was unaware of it. I will have to start reviewing your news sources too.

Thanks for the Google tip, I'll make up a file and add it.

Almost none of the deaths linked to recent protests are known to have been committed by protesters - The Washington Post


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/08/26/almost-none-deaths-linked-recent-protests-are-known-have-been-committed-by-protesters/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/08/26/almost-none-deaths-linked-recent-protests-are-known-have-been-committed-by-protesters/%3foutputType=amp

LunchTime said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Total cl$terf$ck but no way murder sticks. He was chased and shots were fired before firing his weapon. Excellent video work here by NYT. Watch the whole pinned thread

https://twitter.com/trbrtc

---

Oh yeah, thats interesting. Zero chance of a conviction. He was legally armed and can argue he felt threatened if someone started shooting.

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"Zero chance" seems a bit strong there. We don't know what happened before he was chased into that parking lot. Also, was he legally armed? What are the laws in his home state of Illinois?

The first guy killed was shot in the back after throwing a plastic bag at Rittenhouse and missing.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/clarissajanlim/kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-charges-criminal-complaint

LunchTime said:

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bearister said:

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" I heard a good point on this forum: Whenever a significant portion of protesters are peaceful, we are told the protest is mostly peaceful and we are asked to focus on the peaceful protests instead of the "outside agitators." Then the same people turnaround and demand we only consider the worst incidents among the police and want them to represent the whole group."

Well, that is true and it points out hypocrisy. However, there is a little more gravity to a cop murdering someone than a looter causing property damage.

The only murders that come to mind connected to the recent protests are the Federal contractor killed by Steven Carrillo, the Alt Right psychopath and the victims of the vigilante, the Kenosha Kid.

---

Its interesting that you would expose your bias so openly. It is not as though you couldn't use google. See the bias in reporting isnt just straight omission. It is also frequency of discussing incidents and not frequently reporting others. There is also location Bias (two guys shot in Oakland is enormously more importaint to me than someone killed across the country, for example). There is also conformation bias, where you only seek out information to support your claims that everything is done by the "alt-right" or "looters" or law-enforcement.

Here are a few names:

DAVID DORN: Killed by looters while he attempted to prevent looting of his pawn shop
CHRIS BEATY: Circumstances unknown. While at a protest, attempted to help a mugging victem and was shot
ITALIA KELLY: Possibly killed by random gunfire while leaving a protest that had escalated
MARQUIS TOUSANT: Killed when protesters shot 13 times at police officers. Collateral damage.
JAVAR HARRELL: Killed when an unknown person fired into a car during a protest.
JOSE GUTIERREZ: Bi-stander shot while looters were ... looting by a looter. This one has an arrest: Zion Haygood, a Black man if that matters (probably not alt-right).
VICTOR CAZARES JR.: Shot in a separate incident the same area and day as Jose.
MARVIN FRANCOIS: Chot by car jackers while trying to leave a protest.

Some of them are unrelated. Some are directly related. Some may be alt-right agitators. Some may be criminals hiding in protests.

I left out people shot by police, like JORGE GOMEZ, or Protesters/looters/bistanders killed accidentally while protesting, like BARRY PERKINS III, or people killed while attacking other people, like JAMES SCURLOCK or CALVIN HORTON JR..

But seriously. You can hold your opinions, and still be informed. It doesnt diminish your foundation. It strengthens your position when you can acknowledge shades. We, here, should be better than focusing only on what supports our claims of absolutes.

---

Thanks for that exhaustive list. It is quite noteworthy how many posters were prompted to post on the Rittenhouse matter but have never said a thing about the names you've listed. Haven't seen much action on the goings on in Chicago either, where the great majority of victims are black. Not a peep about the hundreds of small business owners--many black--who've had their life's work looted and burned, many of which are ironically, BLM supporters. Statues and memorials desecrated? A collective yawn from this crowd, even when it occurs in their home town. And most disturbing is the lack of emotion or utter outrage at what has transpired in Oakland, a place where many on this board make their home. Time for a gut check?

You mentioned the word foundation. I have also referred to their "ideological house of cards" and have wondered why intelligent folks on this board can't bring themselves to disparage openly criminal behavior simply because it wasn't carried out by a right wing adherent. Is that house of cards that fragile? This kind of denial, done on a larger scale by the Democrats themselves, is what's making this election a horse race.

calpoly said:

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okaydo said:

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Star this post for no.

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tRump will pardon him.

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trump will be out of office too soon to pardon him. There's a better chance they both end up in the same prison and trump anally rapes the boy. rapists will rape and as long as their young, I cant imagine trump cares if he busts his nut in a vagina or butt hole.

"This kind of denial, done on a larger scale by the Democrats themselves, is what's making this election a horse race."

tRump and his Crime Family already know how the election is going to turn out...which accounts for them acting like they owned the White House last night, instead of us.

bearister said:

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"This kind of denial, done on a larger scale by the Democrats themselves, is what's making this election a horse race."

tRump and his Crime Family already know how the election is going to turn out...which accounts for them acting like they owned the White House last night, instead of us.

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No earthly reason for Biden to lose. Unlike Hillary, no one will be able to say they just didn't like him. The Democrats have to, at all costs, keep from being once again labeled soft on crime, but it seems they are trying to steal defeat from the jaws of victory.