Cal88 said:
OaktownBear said:
Cal88 said:
Matthew Patel said:
OdontoBear66 said:
Matthew Patel said:
OdontoBear66 said:
Matthew Patel said:
OdontoBear66 said:
Google and read what Notre Dame professors of law say about Amy Coney Barrett. She is multi dimensional despite what the Dems will try to craft. She is the total package, not only as a person but as an educator and jurist. She knows full well what is coming. The only concern I have with the ramifications of Roe v. Wade I have are that we must keep that a woman's choice, but late term abortions areoung the nine month mark are absurd. Get your sh++ together before that.
Late term abortions are the biggest straw man of all time
Straw man or not I would fight for R v. W but at the same time fight against late term abortions. R v. W ain't going anywhere, anyhow.
I dare you to find me statistics on late term abortions in this country
Not needed
Cause they ain't there. Cause it's not an issue.
8 unarmed Black men killed by the police in 2019 is a huge issue, but 5,597 late term (>21 weeks) abortions performed in the US is not an issue...
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Did you even read the article or even have a basic understanding of pregnancy?
Pregnancy is 40 weeks. 21 weeks is no one's definition of late term. It said in the article that it isn't defined as late term. It merely said that there are only that many abortions 21 weeks or later. Late term abortions are a small subset of that small subset. And almost all of those are for health reasons.
Late term abortions are "a small subset of a small subset" of a huge number, nearly 1 million/year, numbering in the low hundreds per year. At least half of these are not for health reasons.
Quote:
This is not to say that late-term abortions in these countries are only conducted for health issues. Limited data from Australia suggest about half of late-term abortions there are for reasons other than fetal health or maternal physical health.
The increasing numbers of late-term abortions are accompanied in several countries (including Australia, Canada, Italy, Norway, the United Kingdom, and the United States) by increasing cases where the baby is delivered alive after the abortion and then either left to die or actively killed. This is why late-term abortions are increasingly identified as a human rights issue on behalf of the unborn child
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/late_term_abortion_usa.html
Quote:
The problem is that anti abortion activists won't believe that people are having a medical emergency. No one goes through 40 weeks of pregnancy because they couldn't be bothered to call an Uber to get to the clinic
Once again, you are being presumptuous here. Only half of the third trimester abortions are done for health reasons, and that proportion and overall numbers are likely to go up as restrictions on partial birth/late third trimester abortions are being lifted in many countries.
I used to be more on the side of "pro-choice" but the current political climate with the push to normalize late term/live birth abortions is a bit troubling.
Once again, you show what bullshyte you are willing to read.
This is a self published "study" (in other words, he wrote a bunch of bullshyte and posted it on a website), by a physicist with no expertise in the subject who is pro-life and hasn't distinguished himself in anything. It is hilarious how often you guys use supposed experts in one field as a source for a completely different field because you can't get statistics from actual experts to say what you want.
I read through that crap. It should have been obvious that it was crap. Scientific studies do not use politically loaded language to refer to positions. He incorrectly characterizes the constitutional law on the subject. He states as fact without evidence that there is a practice of leaving viable babies post birth to die. (which you quoted). There is no data on that. Acknowledging that there is little data for what he is looking for, he creates projections to estimate data for late term abortions that are pulled out of his ass.
He consistently uses late term abortions to refer to different times in the gestational term including after 20 weeks, after 21 weeks, after 28 weeks. I absolutely acknowledge there are abortions in the second trimester which ends after 27 weeks. Elective abortions are completely legal for that seven weeks, so yes any data on the percentage of "late term abortions" that are elective that include data from the 20-27 week period will absolutely be skewed like if I said the average night time temperature in SF is 62 degrees defining night time as starting at 2pm. That is exactly what he did.
His statement above about "increasing numbers of late term abortions" is by his own data a misrepresentation. to be clear, his data is virtually made up the way it is parsed, but even with his data, this is a false statement. The numbers have decreased when looking at his data. Look at the Y axis of all his graphs demonstrating that late term abortions (DEFINED IN THE GRAPHS AS 20 WEEKS OR LATER) are increasing. They have slightly gone up AS A PERCENTAGE OF TOTAL ABORTIONS. Because the number of abortions as a total have decreased dramatically, so have the total numbers of abortions after 20 weeks. So it actually makes sense that when you reduce the number of elective abortions earlier in pregnancy, that the percentage of abortions that are late term abortions would increase as they are not elective.
There is also the problem that he conflates a political term "elective" with a medical term "elective". Elective in medical terms doesn't mean you wanted it. I've had family members have 4 different surgical procedures in the past 2 years. In every case the doctor told them they had to have the surgery. And in every case they were "elective" surgeries because basically they weren't going to drop dead on the spot if they didn't have them. Most states do not collect data on the reason for an abortion.
Note that when he gets into numbers of Late term abortions, everything is estimated based on data from 4 states. He cites Minnesota which reported 3 "Late term" abortions over a period of 8 years. 2 at 29 weeks. 1 at 31. Doesn't exactly match the image of droves of 40 week old fetuses left on the table to die, does it? In Iowa there were 2 "Late Term" abortions over a period of 13 years. In Alabama there were 7 "Late Term" abortions (Now 26 weeks or later) in 8 years. He claims Michigan had 12 per year. So the first gigantic problem here is that these number are clearly not statistically significant. The second is he is taking a long period where the total numbers of abortions have dropped significantly over the period. Then he takes this not statistically significant sample and adds a whole bunch of assumptions to "estimate" the number of "Late Term" abortions nationally. He bases some of the assumptions on "anecdotal" evidence of clinics willing to do later term abortions provided by pro life sources like "Texas Right to Life" And after all this bullshyte, the number he comes up with for 2018 is anywhere between 50 and 260 abortions after 28 weeks. Based on an extrapolation from roughly 14 and a half "Late Term" abortions a year in 4 states between 2005 and 2017. That is not data.
He then applies incomplete data on abortions post 20 weeks, where for much of that time and by his own admission most of the abortions that take place are within the period of gestation where elective abortions are entirely legal everywhere, to say that half of those are elective.
Every single point is based on bullshyte.
So a pro-life physicist of zero reputation
Did an unscientific analysis of incomplete data
To create an estimate about the number of Late term abortions based on unsupported assumptions and anecdotal reports from pro-life groups.
And to extrapolate from abortions at 20 weeks what the reasons are for abortions post 28 weeks.
All the while misrepresenting the data
And with his thumb on the scale the entire way, his great fantasy is 25-130 elective abortions nationally post 28 weeks with his admission that the number of abortions drops exponentially as you get later in the gestational period (I'll reiterate, zero abortions after week 31 in Minnesota over an 8 year period.) Absolutely no evidence cited for any abortion occurring in the last month and a half of pregnancy. Not one data point of 1 elective abortion taking place.
So, no, I'm not being presumptuous on my conclusions. I stand by them
I should not have had to read this because no one doing a modicum of research on the source would have cited it. But I'm glad I did because it demonstrates that even in their wildest fantasies they can't provide evidence that this great horror story is actually occurring. I stand by my statement that what is going on is that a potential mother and father are going to the hospital in hopes of having a healthy baby that they have probably bought clothes, and furniture, and had a shower for, and have friends and family awaiting the big day and having the tragedy of a brain dead fetus or some other terrible medical circumstance and they don't need people with political motives interfering in a tragic medical decision they need to make.
Yogi is right. This sick fantasy is a red herring.
