That is sad. If he had wanted to continue working into old age, that would have been one thing. It seems that that he simply needed the money, though.

Is this making AMERICA GREAT ?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/8-million-americans-slipped-poverty-amid-coronavirus-pandemic-new-study-n1243762?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

I have found that most people who find it fashionable to rail against capitalism have never had a frank discussion with someone who grew up in a country where the state plans the economy and owns all the businesses. I would encourage any and all to listen to people who grew up in Cuba, the Soviet Union, or Vietnam. No excuse--there're lots of them around us. You'll find out very quickly why the immigration route is a one-way street.

LMK5 said:

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I have found that most people who find it fashionable to rail against capitalism have never had a frank discussion with someone who grew up in a country where the state plans the economy and owns all the businesses. I would encourage any and all to listen to people who grew up in Cuba, the Soviet Union, or Vietnam. No excuse--there're lots of them around us. You'll find out very quickly why the immigration route is a one-way street.

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I am born and raised in the USA thus that is my focus... my fellow Americans.

LMK5 said:

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I have found that most people who find it fashionable to rail against capitalism have never had a frank discussion with someone who grew up in a country where the state plans the economy and owns all the businesses. I would encourage any and all to listen to people who grew up in Cuba, the Soviet Union, or Vietnam. No excuse--there're lots of them around us. You'll find out very quickly why the immigration route is a one-way street.

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The choice isn't black and white. You don't have to go socialism or capitalism. You can have regulated capitalism where the predatory practices are prohibited by the government, whose job is theoretically supposed to be protecting the people's rights.

America is unique thus we need unique changes and which would hopefully bring in turn bring the unique answers and solutions.

It doesn't have to be like this

King said:

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LMK5 said:

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I have found that most people who find it fashionable to rail against capitalism have never had a frank discussion with someone who grew up in a country where the state plans the economy and owns all the businesses. I would encourage any and all to listen to people who grew up in Cuba, the Soviet Union, or Vietnam. No excuse--there're lots of them around us. You'll find out very quickly why the immigration route is a one-way street.

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The choice isn't black and white. You don't have to go socialism or capitalism. You can have regulated capitalism where the predatory practices are prohibited by the government, whose job is theoretically supposed to be protecting the people's rights.

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I agree 100%, and we do have lots of regulations. The OP didn't bring up how he'd like the system to be modified, he only said "Capitalism at its finest".

The purpose of liberalism (American definition) is to moderate the worst impacts of capitalism while still keeping the basic innovative, efficient capitalist framework. Our grandparents created a very liberal economic system which has been systematically eroded over the last 40 years. Liberalism is defined by the economic power of big business vs. the economic power of workers / the people. Liberalism is not defined by government spending or the number of pages regulating business. In our current system, both of those are made bigger as a direct result of the power of big business. We need to get back to the model of our grandparents - but smarter, evolved for the 21st century.

dajo9 said:

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The purpose of liberalism (American definition) is to moderate the worst impacts of capitalism while still keeping the basic innovative, efficient capitalist framework. Our grandparents created a very liberal economic system which has been systematically eroded over the last 40 years. Liberalism is defined by the economic power of big business vs. the economic power of workers / the people. Liberalism is not defined by government spending or the number of pages regulating business. In our current system, both of those are made bigger as a direct result of the power of big business. We need to get back to the model of our grandparents - but smarter, evolved for the 21st century.

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My definition is liberalism is regulated capitalism.

Can someone tell him he won game over ? Geez

going4roses said:

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Can someone tell him he won game over ? Geez

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As a Democrat, why would he behave that way?

Point made

going4roses said:

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Point made

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Will you pledge to refrain from doing any future business with Amazon? It's easy because anything you buy on Amazon can be bought from another site. My guess is that people who complain about him continue to order from Amazon. Will you walk the walk?

calpoly said:

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LMK5 said:

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going4roses said:

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Can someone tell him he won game over ? Geez

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As a Democrat, why would he behave that way?

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I see, you think this behavior is because he is a democrat? But if he is a republican like you, it would be totally acceptable behavior and he would be a wonderful businessman and you would be praising him.

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Obviously any time one Democrat does something bad it reflects on the whole group. That's LMK5's only point.

sycasey said:

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calpoly said:

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LMK5 said:

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going4roses said:

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Can someone tell him he won game over ? Geez

---

As a Democrat, why would he behave that way?

---

I see, you think this behavior is because he is a democrat? But if he is a republican like you, it would be totally acceptable behavior and he would be a wonderful businessman and you would be praising him.

---

Obviously any time one Democrat does something bad it reflects on the whole group. That's LMK5's only point.

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You're a more reasonable guy so maybe you have the guts to answer. Lots of people vilify Jeff Bezos, including many on this forum. However, I haven't seen a single pledge to refrain from doing business with him. If all the people who hated Bezos decided to stop buying from him, or possibly organize a boycott, you'd see some change real quick, yet, for some reason it doesn't happen.

How about you? Will you pledge to stop doing business with Amazon?

LMK5 said:

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sycasey said:

---

calpoly said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

Can someone tell him he won game over ? Geez

---

As a Democrat, why would he behave that way?

---

I see, you think this behavior is because he is a democrat? But if he is a republican like you, it would be totally acceptable behavior and he would be a wonderful businessman and you would be praising him.

---

Obviously any time one Democrat does something bad it reflects on the whole group. That's LMK5's only point.

---

You're a more reasonable guy so maybe you have the guts to answer. Lots of people vilify Jeff Bezos, including many on this forum. However, I haven't seen a single pledge to refrain from doing business with him. If all the people who hated Bezos decided to stop buying from him, or possibly organize a boycott, you'd see some change real quick, yet, for some reason it doesn't happen.

How about you? Will you pledge to stop doing business with Amazon?

---

I don't think it's realistic or effective to refuse to do business with every company that has done something unethical or has a CEO who is a bad person. They are everywhere. So no, I will not, but I've also never claimed to be the boycotting type.

I think the right way to deal with these practices is to outlaw them and have the government hold the companies to account. It's not a problem with specific companies, it's a systemic problem that affects lots of them.

LMK5 said:

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sycasey said:

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calpoly said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

Can someone tell him he won game over ? Geez

---

As a Democrat, why would he behave that way?

---

I see, you think this behavior is because he is a democrat? But if he is a republican like you, it would be totally acceptable behavior and he would be a wonderful businessman and you would be praising him.

---

Obviously any time one Democrat does something bad it reflects on the whole group. That's LMK5's only point.

---

You're a more reasonable guy so maybe you have the guts to answer. Lots of people vilify Jeff Bezos, including many on this forum. However, I haven't seen a single pledge to refrain from doing business with him. If all the people who hated Bezos decided to stop buying from him, or possibly organize a boycott, you'd see some change real quick, yet, for some reason it doesn't happen.

How about you? Will you pledge to stop doing business with Amazon?

---

You have an antiquated idea about Democrats. Tech and Wall Street money is flowing to Biden in great amounts not to Trump, precisely because he is a useful dupe and alternative to the chaos of Trump and because he won't rock the boat.

LMK5 said:

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sycasey said:

---

calpoly said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

Can someone tell him he won game over ? Geez

---

As a Democrat, why would he behave that way?

---

I see, you think this behavior is because he is a democrat? But if he is a republican like you, it would be totally acceptable behavior and he would be a wonderful businessman and you would be praising him.

---

Obviously any time one Democrat does something bad it reflects on the whole group. That's LMK5's only point.

---

You're a more reasonable guy so maybe you have the guts to answer. Lots of people vilify Jeff Bezos, including many on this forum. However, I haven't seen a single pledge to refrain from doing business with him. If all the people who hated Bezos decided to stop buying from him, or possibly organize a boycott, you'd see some change real quick, yet, for some reason it doesn't happen.

How about you? Will you pledge to stop doing business with Amazon?

---

I tried to do this years ago but my wife had other ideas. If my kids ever learned my wife's Amazon password we'd be bankrupt overnight.

sycasey said:

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LMK5 said:

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sycasey said:

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calpoly said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

Can someone tell him he won game over ? Geez

---

As a Democrat, why would he behave that way?

---

I see, you think this behavior is because he is a democrat? But if he is a republican like you, it would be totally acceptable behavior and he would be a wonderful businessman and you would be praising him.

---

Obviously any time one Democrat does something bad it reflects on the whole group. That's LMK5's only point.

---

You're a more reasonable guy so maybe you have the guts to answer. Lots of people vilify Jeff Bezos, including many on this forum. However, I haven't seen a single pledge to refrain from doing business with him. If all the people who hated Bezos decided to stop buying from him, or possibly organize a boycott, you'd see some change real quick, yet, for some reason it doesn't happen.

How about you? Will you pledge to stop doing business with Amazon?

---

I don't think it's realistic or effective to refuse to do business with every company that has done something unethical or has a CEO who is a bad person. They are everywhere. So no, I will not, but I've also never claimed to be the boycotting type.

I think the right way to deal with these practices is to outlaw them and have the government hold the companies to account. It's not a problem with specific companies, it's a systemic problem that affects lots of them.

---

Hold everything. Are you saying that you won't refuse to do business with a company that violates your own principles when there are other options available? We're not talking about the electric company here, we're talking about a company that sells the same junk that everyone else does. They are completely non-essential. Don't you find it to be the height of hypocrisy to voice disapproval of Jeff Bezos while at the same time choosing to do business with him when it would so easy to buy elsewhere? This is just amazing to me. You want to wait for "the government" to do something as you and others give tacit approval of Amazon by writing checks to them? This is just classic stuff sycasey.

It just shows once again that people will voice their views but are extremely reluctant to even slightly inconvenience themselves in order to put those views into motion. It's always for someone else to bear the burden of change.

LMK5 said:

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sycasey said:

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LMK5 said:

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sycasey said:

---

calpoly said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

going4roses said:

---

Can someone tell him he won game over ? Geez

---

As a Democrat, why would he behave that way?

---

I see, you think this behavior is because he is a democrat? But if he is a republican like you, it would be totally acceptable behavior and he would be a wonderful businessman and you would be praising him.

---

Obviously any time one Democrat does something bad it reflects on the whole group. That's LMK5's only point.

---

You're a more reasonable guy so maybe you have the guts to answer. Lots of people vilify Jeff Bezos, including many on this forum. However, I haven't seen a single pledge to refrain from doing business with him. If all the people who hated Bezos decided to stop buying from him, or possibly organize a boycott, you'd see some change real quick, yet, for some reason it doesn't happen.

How about you? Will you pledge to stop doing business with Amazon?

---

I don't think it's realistic or effective to refuse to do business with every company that has done something unethical or has a CEO who is a bad person. They are everywhere. So no, I will not, but I've also never claimed to be the boycotting type.

I think the right way to deal with these practices is to outlaw them and have the government hold the companies to account. It's not a problem with specific companies, it's a systemic problem that affects lots of them.

---

Hold everything. Are you saying that you won't refuse to do business with a company that violates your own principles when there are other options available? We're not talking about the electric company here, we're talking about a company that sells the same junk that everyone else does. They are completely non-essential. Don't you find it to be the height of hypocrisy to voice disapproval of Jeff Bezos while at the same time choosing to do business with him when it would so easy to buy elsewhere? This is just amazing to me. You want to wait for "the government" to do something as you and others give tacit approval of Amazon by writing checks to them? This is just classic stuff sycasey.

---

Are you conflating my views with someone else's? I haven't said a word about Bezos. You asked me if I would agree to a boycott.

This answer seems to support my contention that you think that one Democrat's actions can be automatically applied to all of them.

What say you going4roses? Still doing business with Amazon or are you willing to walk the walk?

I avoid Amazon whenever possible. Like WalMart before it, Amazon is responsible for the death of countless mom and pop operations and rural American downtown shopping areas.

The only thing Amazon gets from me is a monthly Amazon Prime sub, and I rationalize it as supporting creativity and content that I like.

LMK5 said:

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What say you going4roses? Still doing business with Amazon or are you willing to walk the walk?

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Actually I have only made one purchase for my dad RIP because he needed help with his bed/tv remote at laguna Honda
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HCPR6K2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_btf_t1_CHhNFb1PGVE66

If I drove/had a car and wasn't doing my undergrad work I probably would have tried to find what he needed. But comfort and quality of life mixed in with logistics played a role.

OaktownBear said:

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LMK5 said:

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What say you going4roses? Still doing business with Amazon or are you willing to walk the walk?

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This is called the principle of universal complicity. In a modern world it is impossible to live without interacting with or purchasing from entities that have practices you don't like. So if you speak out against anything, the fact that you don't live like Thoreau gets thrown in your face as hypocrisy by those who don't care about what is important to you.

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Total BS. Let's call it what it is: fluid principles. It's the easiest protest in the world to buy from someplace else rather than Amazon and you know it. If someone really didn't like the practices of Amazon and Jeff Bezos, it should give them a bad taste in their mouth--an avoidable one--every time they paid them.

The bottom line, played out over and over again, is that people love to protest, but they will only act on their principles up to the point of inconvenience. It's faux outrage.

going4roses said:

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LMK5 said:

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What say you going4roses? Still doing business with Amazon or are you willing to walk the walk?

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Actually I have only made one purchase for my dad RIP because he needed help with his bed/tv remote at laguna Honda
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HCPR6K2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_btf_t1_CHhNFb1PGVE66

If I drove/had a car and wasn't doing my undergrad work I probably would have tried to find what he needed. But comfort and quality of life mixed in with logistics played a role.

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Appreciate the response. The quickest way to change the behavior of a large, public, corporation is to act with the wallet. How long did it take for Washington to drop "Redskins" once their sponsors weighed in? That medicine works much more effectively than waiting for the Feds (most of whom are in bed with the entity anyway) to act.

AunBear89 said:

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I avoid Amazon whenever possible. Like WalMart before it, Amazon is responsible for the death of countless mom and pop operations and rural American downtown shopping areas.

The only thing Amazon gets from me is a monthly Amazon Prime sub, and I rationalize it as supporting creativity and content that I like.

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Yep, I know plenty of people who do the same for the same reason you stated. Some people take it to greater lengths: My brother-in-law won't buy anything made in China if he can help it. He will pay more for the European equivalent (if it exists) instead. Strange, yet you have to respect the private protest.

I hope Biden wins because I need to buy a lot of clothes. I mostly stopped buying new clothes after Trump won. I have also delayed buying new cars a couple of years and plan to buy them early 2021 if Biden wins. Along with some kitchen appliances that have been deteriorating. I don't visit red states if I can possibly avoid it so I don't spend money there. I stopped buying Goya when their CEO stumped for Trump. I'm not kidding myself into thinking I'm accomplishing anything by this, I just want to minimally participate in the economy of a country that would have a racist, sexist, criminal as a President. One message I took with me from Berkeley is that you can't control the world, but you can control yourself. These decisions are for me alone. Anyway, I've got to go clothes shopping in January regardless of who wins.

These things may sound extreme but they are the furthest thing from extreme. It hasn't really affected my life one bit. I hate shopping anyway. My household still spends way too much via my wife and kids.

dajo9 said:

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I hope Biden wins because I need to buy a lot of clothes. I mostly stopped buying new clothes after Trump won. I have also delayed buying new cars a couple of years and plan to buy them early 2021 if Biden wins. Along with some kitchen appliances that have been deteriorating. I don't visit red states if I can possibly avoid it so I don't spend money there. I stopped buying Goya when their CEO stumped for Trump. I'm not kidding myself into thinking I'm accomplishing anything by this, I just want to minimally participate in the economy of a country that would have a racist, sexist, criminal as a President. One message I took with me from Berkeley is that you can't control the world, but you can control yourself. These decisions are for me alone. Anyway, I've got to go clothes shopping in January regardless of who wins.

These things may sound extreme but they are the furthest thing from extreme. It hasn't really affected my life one bit. I hate shopping anyway. My household still spends way too much via my wife and kids.

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We can do without the vast majority of things we think we can't live without. Except CFB of course.