helltopay1 said:
Showing Hillary nude has killed more folks from fright than all covid 19 cases so far.
Sexist
What was so bad about Hillary?
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Last: 2 yr ago by bearister
Sexist
dimitrig said:concordtom said:
For 4 years I've heard how 2016 was a choice between two very unlikeable candidates. And sure, Hillary was no June Cleaver, but she was smart, passionate, and experienced. Works for me!
Knocks against were were mysterious and made up in my mind.
Benghazi, please!
Whitewater and options trading profits? Escaped me.
Email server in unsecured closet? Stupid but not disqualifying.
Email content? There was nothing there, right?
Stand by your cheating husband? Personal choice, no?
Meanwhile, compared to 2016 Trump, she WAS June Cleaver, and compared to 2020 Trump, that favorability rating only improves, big time. Hillary as Jesus, our woulda been, coulda been savior! If only, we'd have avoided these last 4 years of endless insults and crimes, hypocrisy and waywardness.
So tell me, why was she so unlikeable again???
I supported Hillary. I even supported her over Obama during his first primary.
However, even I have to admit that she is unlikeable.
Why?
She's smug and arrogant.
She is not relatable. (That "deplorables" comment came back to haunt her.)
She was seen as a career Washington insider more focused on her career than helping people: First Lady, Sec of State, Senator
She also is associated with her husband, who I don't dislike, but who you have to admit was a philanderer who was constantly embroiled in scandal and ultimately impeached.
She is extremely smart and was one of the most qualified candidates we have had as President, but in spite of her political success she has bad political instincts and always came across as cold and calculating.
Clinton was not constantly embroiled in scandal. Clinton had one of the most scandal free administrations in our lifetime. His big scandal was also related to a blowjob, not governance. He was also the victim of a radicalized opposition using their Congressional oversight powers to create an image of scandal where none existed. Think of all the investigations (and headlines) that amounted to nothing.
Reagan and his administration were proven to be involved in far worse scandals than Clinton.
"... Reagan and his administration were proven to be involved in far worse scandals than Clinton..."
Very much agree with this comment. As CA governor, too.
xPOTUS Reagan and his shameful double-speak was insulated by a right wing coterie that wrapped and diapered him in deniability. They called it patriotism.
$GoPs worship the jolly ol' jellybean elf, and shamefully promote him as the greatest of all time. Despicable!
Very much agree with this comment. As CA governor, too.
xPOTUS Reagan and his shameful double-speak was insulated by a right wing coterie that wrapped and diapered him in deniability. They called it patriotism.
$GoPs worship the jolly ol' jellybean elf, and shamefully promote him as the greatest of all time. Despicable!
dajo9 said:dimitrig said:concordtom said:
For 4 years I've heard how 2016 was a choice between two very unlikeable candidates. And sure, Hillary was no June Cleaver, but she was smart, passionate, and experienced. Works for me!
Knocks against were were mysterious and made up in my mind.
Benghazi, please!
Whitewater and options trading profits? Escaped me.
Email server in unsecured closet? Stupid but not disqualifying.
Email content? There was nothing there, right?
Stand by your cheating husband? Personal choice, no?
Meanwhile, compared to 2016 Trump, she WAS June Cleaver, and compared to 2020 Trump, that favorability rating only improves, big time. Hillary as Jesus, our woulda been, coulda been savior! If only, we'd have avoided these last 4 years of endless insults and crimes, hypocrisy and waywardness.
So tell me, why was she so unlikeable again???
I supported Hillary. I even supported her over Obama during his first primary.
However, even I have to admit that she is unlikeable.
Why?
She's smug and arrogant.
She is not relatable. (That "deplorables" comment came back to haunt her.)
She was seen as a career Washington insider more focused on her career than helping people: First Lady, Sec of State, Senator
She also is associated with her husband, who I don't dislike, but who you have to admit was a philanderer who was constantly embroiled in scandal and ultimately impeached.
She is extremely smart and was one of the most qualified candidates we have had as President, but in spite of her political success she has bad political instincts and always came across as cold and calculating.
Clinton was not constantly embroiled in scandal. Clinton had one of the most scandal free administrations in our lifetime. His big scandal was also related to a blowjob, not governance. He was also the victim of a radicalized opposition using their Congressional oversight powers to create an image of scandal where none existed. Think of all the investigations (and headlines) that amounted to nothing.
Reagan and his administration were proven to be involved in far worse scandals than Clinton.
You have to be kidding when you say that Clinton was not constantly embroiled in scandal:
Clinton Scandals: A Guide From Whitewater To The Clinton Foundation
I voted for her but held my nose. It may be a little thing, but my distaste for her goes back to the Travelgate business. She could have simply removed the travel office crew, as they served at Clinton's pleasure, but she had them investigated. My view is that she took that approach so she'd look better installing her own people. The poor schmuck in charge went through hell, but was eventually cleared. So she screwed up the guy's life just to look at little better in a situation that nobody cared about.
Running up $100,000 in the futures market from nothing didn't help either
Running up $100,000 in the futures market from nothing didn't help either
Notice how the investigations into everything except Bill's sexual affairs came up with nothing.dimitrig said:dajo9 said:dimitrig said:concordtom said:
For 4 years I've heard how 2016 was a choice between two very unlikeable candidates. And sure, Hillary was no June Cleaver, but she was smart, passionate, and experienced. Works for me!
Knocks against were were mysterious and made up in my mind.
Benghazi, please!
Whitewater and options trading profits? Escaped me.
Email server in unsecured closet? Stupid but not disqualifying.
Email content? There was nothing there, right?
Stand by your cheating husband? Personal choice, no?
Meanwhile, compared to 2016 Trump, she WAS June Cleaver, and compared to 2020 Trump, that favorability rating only improves, big time. Hillary as Jesus, our woulda been, coulda been savior! If only, we'd have avoided these last 4 years of endless insults and crimes, hypocrisy and waywardness.
So tell me, why was she so unlikeable again???
I supported Hillary. I even supported her over Obama during his first primary.
However, even I have to admit that she is unlikeable.
Why?
She's smug and arrogant.
She is not relatable. (That "deplorables" comment came back to haunt her.)
She was seen as a career Washington insider more focused on her career than helping people: First Lady, Sec of State, Senator
She also is associated with her husband, who I don't dislike, but who you have to admit was a philanderer who was constantly embroiled in scandal and ultimately impeached.
She is extremely smart and was one of the most qualified candidates we have had as President, but in spite of her political success she has bad political instincts and always came across as cold and calculating.
Clinton was not constantly embroiled in scandal. Clinton had one of the most scandal free administrations in our lifetime. His big scandal was also related to a blowjob, not governance. He was also the victim of a radicalized opposition using their Congressional oversight powers to create an image of scandal where none existed. Think of all the investigations (and headlines) that amounted to nothing.
Reagan and his administration were proven to be involved in far worse scandals than Clinton.
You have to be kidding when you say that Clinton was not constantly embroiled in scandal:
Clinton Scandals: A Guide From Whitewater To The Clinton Foundation
To the OP's question: I think Hillary Clinton has been a target of the right wing for decades, and that colored people's view of her, rightly or wrongly. Some sexism is probably involved here too, but mostly it was about being Bill Clinton's wife and Republicans spending his entire term looking for something to pin on him. After he left office and Hillary continued in public positions they just refocused.
She also did not have particularly good political instincts. Way too often her campaign would just allow some small rumor about her to fester and grow without addressing it, essentially allowing Trump and the Republicans free reign to drive the narrative. She makes unforced errors, like antagonizing Bernie people by giving former DNC folks (Debbie Wasserman-Schultz) honorary positions on her campaign, or writing off whole groups of voters with comments like "deplorables." Her campaign bungled the electoral math of the 2008 primary, allowing Obama (who had less money and less name recognition at first) to outflank them. We saw similar mistakes in leaving the Rust Belt states entirely to Trump in 2016 while wasting money in Utah/Arizona/etc.
So two things are true: She is the target of unfair attacks and character assassination. She also creates a lot of her own problems. Beyond all of that, if she had managed to win she would probably have been a competent President. Generally she was very competent at whatever position she held within government. She's just not great at campaigning.
She also did not have particularly good political instincts. Way too often her campaign would just allow some small rumor about her to fester and grow without addressing it, essentially allowing Trump and the Republicans free reign to drive the narrative. She makes unforced errors, like antagonizing Bernie people by giving former DNC folks (Debbie Wasserman-Schultz) honorary positions on her campaign, or writing off whole groups of voters with comments like "deplorables." Her campaign bungled the electoral math of the 2008 primary, allowing Obama (who had less money and less name recognition at first) to outflank them. We saw similar mistakes in leaving the Rust Belt states entirely to Trump in 2016 while wasting money in Utah/Arizona/etc.
So two things are true: She is the target of unfair attacks and character assassination. She also creates a lot of her own problems. Beyond all of that, if she had managed to win she would probably have been a competent President. Generally she was very competent at whatever position she held within government. She's just not great at campaigning.
North Carolina handled it OKhelltopay1 said:
Showing Hillary nude has killed more folks from fright than all covid 19 cases so far.
Hillary believes in a truth that pervades politics - that there are two classes of people. A ruling class and the people who are ruled. She is, of course, part of the ruling class.concordtom said:
For 4 years I've heard how 2016 was a choice between two very unlikeable candidates. And sure, Hillary was no June Cleaver, but she was smart, passionate, and experienced. Works for me!
Coupled with that, she is remarkably devoid of any identifiable values. There are only three things that she seems to be bedrock beliefs.
1. The ends justify the means
2. The United States should be a global interventionist military power
3. Nothing is ever her fault
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/11/new-proof-that-the-dnc-was-just-as-corrupt-as-you-thought-it-was
Watchdog Man said:Hillary believes in a truth that pervades politics - that there are two classes of people. A ruling class and the people who are ruled. She is, of course, part of the ruling class.concordtom said:
For 4 years I've heard how 2016 was a choice between two very unlikeable candidates. And sure, Hillary was no June Cleaver, but she was smart, passionate, and experienced. Works for me!
Coupled with that, she is remarkably devoid of any identifiable values. There are only three things that she seems to be bedrock beliefs.
1. The ends justify the means
2. The United States should be a global interventionist military power
3. Nothing is ever her fault
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/11/new-proof-that-the-dnc-was-just-as-corrupt-as-you-thought-it-was
When the history is written future generations will wonder how so many people got so crazy
joe amos yaks said:
"... Reagan and his administration were proven to be involved in far worse scandals than Clinton..."
Very much agree with this comment. As CA governor, too.
xPOTUS Reagan and his shameful double-speak was insulated by a right wing coterie that wrapped and diapered him in deniability. They called it patriotism.
$GoPs worship the jolly ol' jellybean elf, and shamefully promote him as the greatest of all time. Despicable!
Not to mention he stood idly buy as pill popper Mommy routinely smacked the sh@it out of Patti Davis when she was a child like she owed her money.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Yes, that, too. Not a very caring parental stand by the Dutchman.bearister said:Not to mention he stood idly buy as pill popper Mommy routinely smacked the sh@it out of Patti Davis when she was a child like she owed her money.joe amos yaks said:
"... Reagan and his administration were proven to be involved in far worse scandals than Clinton..."
Very much agree with this comment. As CA governor, too.
xPOTUS Reagan and his shameful double-speak was insulated by a right wing coterie that wrapped and diapered him in deniability. They called it patriotism.
$GoPs worship the jolly ol' jellybean elf, and shamefully promote him as the greatest of all time. Despicable!
"Mommy" was an anorexic piece of work.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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I got some friends inside
Would have been weird having the husband then his wife President. No?
Tell someone you love them and try to have a good day
going4roses said:
Would have been weird having the husband then his wife President. No?
Not as weird as a POTUS that looks and talks like a cartoon character, is a pathological liar, a sexual predator, a failed businessman, a business fraud, a draft dodger, tax evader, traitor, racist, sexist and a failed game show host.....and last, but not least, dumb as f@uck (which is why his supporters say that "He talks like us.").
*But yes, a husband and wife both being POTUS
would probably have been a one and done in American history.
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I love your prose, bearister!
You are asking several questions, but I will take a shot at the unlikeable. Here is a poll which attempts to explain why she was then the most disliked Presidential candidate ever. You may not agree with the factors that the polling found, but it still remains she was viewed negatively by various groups (you can see the breakdown).concordtom said:
For 4 years I've heard how 2016 was a choice between two very unlikeable candidates. And sure, Hillary was no June Cleaver, but she was smart, passionate, and experienced. Works for me!
Knocks against were were mysterious and made up in my mind.
Benghazi, please!
Whitewater and options trading profits? Escaped me.
Email server in unsecured closet? Stupid but not disqualifying.
Email content? There was nothing there, right?
Stand by your cheating husband? Personal choice, no?
Meanwhile, compared to 2016 Trump, she WAS June Cleaver, and compared to 2020 Trump, that favorability rating only improves, big time. Hillary as Jesus, our woulda been, coulda been savior! If only, we'd have avoided these last 4 years of endless insults and crimes, hypocrisy and waywardness.
So tell me, why was she so unlikeable again???
Clinton's Image at Lowest Point in Two Decades - Gallup Pollnews.gallup.com poll clinton-image-lowest-point-two-...
The other aspect is why should we care, and why won't you just let her just go away?concordtom said:
For 4 years I've heard how 2016 was a choice between two very unlikeable candidates. And sure, Hillary was no June Cleaver, but she was smart, passionate, and experienced. Works for me!
Knocks against were were mysterious and made up in my mind.
Benghazi, please!
Whitewater and options trading profits? Escaped me.
Email server in unsecured closet? Stupid but not disqualifying.
Email content? There was nothing there, right?
Stand by your cheating husband? Personal choice, no?
Meanwhile, compared to 2016 Trump, she WAS June Cleaver, and compared to 2020 Trump, that favorability rating only improves, big time. Hillary as Jesus, our woulda been, coulda been savior! If only, we'd have avoided these last 4 years of endless insults and crimes, hypocrisy and waywardness.
So tell me, why was she so unlikeable again???
She spent a good portion of primary season delivering critiques of her party's field seeking the presidential nomination. She even leveled conspiracy charges reminiscent of the current occupant of the White House.
This may be a reflection of a selective memory, but she said of Sanders when he had a realistic shot of being the candidate: "Nobody wanted to work with himnobody liked himhe got nothing done. He did not work until he was like 41, and then he got elected to something. It was all baloney." And then the next line was to insult Joe Biden: he is a career politician." (Maybe she should look at her husband). She then leveled a bizarre accusations that Tulsi Gabbard who served in both Iraq and Kuwait was a "Russian asset" after Gabbard criticized Clinton, It was a claim she also directed at Jill Stein, the Green Party presidential candidate in 2016, without any factual basis.
She was the epitome of self-absorption, stubbornly blaming others for her 2016 defeat while gleefully diminishing Sanders and Biden when they were reaching for the prize she fumbled away. She has a personal obsession proving conclusively that victory was unfairly denied her four years ago, that she lost only because of the ineptitude or malfeasance of others, particularly Sanders, as she continues to act vindictively towards those people (who are mostly in her party). Her public appearances over the past three years have served the sole purpose of allowing her to name and blame and vilify those she believes caused her to lose in 2016, and to lash out at anyone she deems to have been insufficiently loyal. Try as Clinton might to relitigate that campaign, she won't convince people that she ran a great campaign, that she was a great candidate, that she did not really lose, and that the world conspired to keep her out of the Oval Office. This is unprecedented behavior for a failed nominee. Compulsive like the guy in the Oval Office who has spent the last 3 years complaining about her past conduct.
Just to contrast her with Biden or Obama, she is not about continuing to fight for the Democratic Party's values. She is not particularly engaged in activist causes or party policy. She wants only to argue in public that she is right and that everyone else is wrong about the last election. Clinton's continued presence in public life serves only her own interests, and it comes to the detriment of former allies and even her own party. Her campaign slogan was "I'm with her." Biden's is: "Restore The Soul of America." That about says it all.
In another post you needled me that I somehow was suppose to pickup on Trump peculiarities. Your not at all picking up on Hillary's.
Jill Stein and Tulsi Gabbard are interesting research projects. Both f@ucking weirdos.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
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Speaking of sexism, this is a good time to remember WIAF called Hillary a b**ch on these boards back in 2016. I called Trump a racist and got a one week timeout. I doubt WIAF got any such timeout.
dajo9 said:
Speaking of sexism, this is a good time to remember WIAF called Hillary a b**ch on these boards back in 2016. I called Trump a racist and got a one week timeout. I doubt WIAF got any such timeout.
A tRump dump in those days garnered a 60 day penalty box with a threat of lifetime if the reason for the ban was discussed in a future post. Plus plenty of Moderator posts that they were neutral politically.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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I got some friends inside
How about that. You finally wrote something smart.wifeisafurd said:The other aspect is why should we care, and why won't you just let her just go away?concordtom said:
For 4 years I've heard how 2016 was a choice between two very unlikeable candidates. And sure, Hillary was no June Cleaver, but she was smart, passionate, and experienced. Works for me!
Knocks against were were mysterious and made up in my mind.
Benghazi, please!
Whitewater and options trading profits? Escaped me.
Email server in unsecured closet? Stupid but not disqualifying.
Email content? There was nothing there, right?
Stand by your cheating husband? Personal choice, no?
Meanwhile, compared to 2016 Trump, she WAS June Cleaver, and compared to 2020 Trump, that favorability rating only improves, big time. Hillary as Jesus, our woulda been, coulda been savior! If only, we'd have avoided these last 4 years of endless insults and crimes, hypocrisy and waywardness.
So tell me, why was she so unlikeable again???
She spent a good portion of primary season delivering critiques of her party's field seeking the presidential nomination. She even leveled conspiracy charges reminiscent of the current occupant of the White House.
This may be a reflection of a selective memory, but she said of Sanders when he had a realistic shot of being the candidate: "Nobody wanted to work with himnobody liked himhe got nothing done. He did not work until he was like 41, and then he got elected to something. It was all baloney." And then the next line was to insult Joe Biden: he is a career politician." (Maybe she should look at her husband). She then leveled a bizarre accusations that Tulsi Gabbard who served in both Iraq and Kuwait was a "Russian asset" after Gabbard criticized Clinton, It was a claim she also directed at Jill Stein, the Green Party presidential candidate in 2016, without any factual basis.
She was the epitome of self-absorption, stubbornly blaming others for her 2016 defeat while gleefully diminishing Sanders and Biden when they were reaching for the prize she fumbled away. She has a personal obsession proving conclusively that victory was unfairly denied her four years ago, that she lost only because of the ineptitude or malfeasance of others, particularly Sanders, as she continues to act vindictively towards those people (who are mostly in her party). Her public appearances over the past three years have served the sole purpose of allowing her to name and blame and vilify those she believes caused her to lose in 2016, and to lash out at anyone she deems to have been insufficiently loyal. Try as Clinton might to relitigate that campaign, she won't convince people that she ran a great campaign, that she was a great candidate, that she did not really lose, and that the world conspired to keep her out of the Oval Office. This is unprecedented behavior for a failed nominee. Compulsive like the guy in the Oval Office who has spent the last 3 years complaining about her past conduct.
Just to contrast her with Biden or Obama, she is not about continuing to fight for the Democratic Party's values. She is not particularly engaged in activist causes or party policy. She wants only to argue in public that she is right and that everyone else is wrong about the last election. Clinton's continued presence in public life serves only her own interests, and it comes to the detriment of former allies and even her own party. Her campaign slogan was "I'm with her." Biden's is: "Restore The Soul of America." That about says it all.
In another post you needled me that I somehow was suppose to pickup on Trump peculiarities. Your not at all picking up on Hillary's.
wifeisafurd said:The other aspect is why should we care, and why won't you just let her just go away?concordtom said:
For 4 years I've heard how 2016 was a choice between two very unlikeable candidates. And sure, Hillary was no June Cleaver, but she was smart, passionate, and experienced. Works for me!
Knocks against were were mysterious and made up in my mind.
Benghazi, please!
Whitewater and options trading profits? Escaped me.
Email server in unsecured closet? Stupid but not disqualifying.
Email content? There was nothing there, right?
Stand by your cheating husband? Personal choice, no?
Meanwhile, compared to 2016 Trump, she WAS June Cleaver, and compared to 2020 Trump, that favorability rating only improves, big time. Hillary as Jesus, our woulda been, coulda been savior! If only, we'd have avoided these last 4 years of endless insults and crimes, hypocrisy and waywardness.
So tell me, why was she so unlikeable again???
I agree with that. Hillary Clinton is not running for office and probably will not again. Let her go. That goes for both the right and the left.
I happen to like female dogs.dajo9 said:
Speaking of sexism, this is a good time to remember WIAF called Hillary a b**ch on these boards back in 2016. I called Trump a racist and got a one week timeout. I doubt WIAF got any such timeout.
Because:wifeisafurd said:The other aspect is why should we care, and why won't you just let her just go away?concordtom said:
So tell me, why was she so unlikeable again???
1) people chose TRUMP over her. I just can't get over that. I think he is one of the worst people I've ever come across in this life! I'm pretty damn sure of that. Uh, Mohammad Atta ranks higher than Trump. At least he had some conviction to a higher cause - misguided as it was. It's like comparing a varsity squad vs the 5th grader classroom idiot. Okay, so you didn't like the varsity person - but HIM???? Good god. It's not her I'm hung up on, it's him. It's always been him. I just do NOT understand how people can stomach him today, or could have 4-5 years ago. I've always known him to be a complete turd. I said it here on BI then, and all he's done since is prove me (and Jeb: "chaos") right.
2) Alt-Right media keeps talking about her. THEY keep bringing her up, not me. I heard another "but Hillary" and I was like, "Oh Jesus Christ - I have to ask the boys at BI, what the hell gives here?!?!?!
LOL.wifeisafurd said:concordtom said:
So tell me, why was she so unlikeable again???
In another post you needled me that I somehow was suppose to pickup on Trump peculiarities. Your not at all picking up on Hillary's.
How very right you are.
How right you are.
Touche!
LOL.
But I'll say this. My error in estimation was not nearly as bad as your error with Trump. Ha ha ha ha.
I guess that settles though, doesn't it.
Thank you for NOT voting for Trump this go around. There can be salvation. But, damn, what a f***d up 5 years it's been. I hope to never relive this era. May the nation be cleansed.
Lol.dajo9 said:
Speaking of sexism, this is a good time to remember WIAF called Hillary a b**ch on these boards back in 2016. I called Trump a racist and got a one week timeout. I doubt WIAF got any such timeout.
Glad to know I'm not the only one.
WAIF gives money - he ain't gonna get snubbed.
WAIF also reported me, and got the mods on me. Yes, I know.
Hear hear!bearister said:dajo9 said:
Speaking of sexism, this is a good time to remember WIAF called Hillary a b**ch on these boards back in 2016. I called Trump a racist and got a one week timeout. I doubt WIAF got any such timeout.
A tRump dump in those days garnered a 60 day penalty box with a threat of lifetime if the reason for the ban was discussed in a future post. Plus plenty of Moderator posts that they were neutral politically.
Someone with the key couldn't resist our dissent. Hard to say who, but I have my suspicions.
This casual glossing over of sexism goes over real well at elite cocktail partieswifeisafurd said:I happen to like female dogs.dajo9 said:
Speaking of sexism, this is a good time to remember WIAF called Hillary a b**ch on these boards back in 2016. I called Trump a racist and got a one week timeout. I doubt WIAF got any such timeout.
In the meantime, women are expected to vote for Democrats by a 25% - 30% margin in 2020
You should join Hillary on the excuse tour. After all it was all those women who didn't vote for her because she was a woman that she lost.dajo9 said:This casual glossing over of sexism goes over real well at elite cocktail partieswifeisafurd said:I happen to like female dogs.dajo9 said:
Speaking of sexism, this is a good time to remember WIAF called Hillary a b**ch on these boards back in 2016. I called Trump a racist and got a one week timeout. I doubt WIAF got any such timeout.
In the meantime, women are expected to vote for Democrats by a 25% - 30% margin in 2020
I didn't think there was anything wrong with Hillary.concordtom said:
For 4 years I've heard how 2016 was a choice between two very unlikeable candidates. And sure, Hillary was no June Cleaver, but she was smart, passionate, and experienced. Works for me!
Knocks against were were mysterious and made up in my mind.
Benghazi, please!
Whitewater and options trading profits? Escaped me.
Email server in unsecured closet? Stupid but not disqualifying.
Email content? There was nothing there, right?
Stand by your cheating husband? Personal choice, no?
Meanwhile, compared to 2016 Trump, she WAS June Cleaver, and compared to 2020 Trump, that favorability rating only improves, big time. Hillary as Jesus, our woulda been, coulda been savior! If only, we'd have avoided these last 4 years of endless insults and crimes, hypocrisy and waywardness.
So tell me, why was she so unlikeable again???
But I am a progressive, and there was not very much right with her either.
The whole span from Bill to Al Gore to Obama and then Hillary convinced me that the Democrats were committed to centrism and that doesn't work for me. Nor do I think it works for the country and the world.
Also, I think it is poor political strategy for the Democrats to come up with candidates that are not enough contrast with the Republicans. I believe it is that strategy that gave rise to Reagan, the Bushes and Trump. Biden also is not much of a contrast to your average Republic but Trump has become so toxic that Biden will likely succeed anyway. If Hillary was running now, she would probably be just about as popular anyway because of how bad Trump has gotten. But Biden has a much more popular personality that Hillary did in 2016. Biden is more human and less arrogant in his attitude. Clinton did not handle the Bernie movement well and many gave her the finger during the election. Biden was smarter and worked better to keep from alienating the progressive vote.
Finally, the country is changing. It took 4 years of Trump, the coronavirus and blatant climate change for the country to wake up to the fact that progressive policies are the best policies for the future of our planet. 4 additional years of Bernie campaigning helped to bring progressive issues into the narrative. Now the media embraces them more than in 2016. 4 years ago, Trump actually seemed more progressive on many issues. Now that illusion is completely blown up. Trump speaks to his base only, even though it is about 30% of the public. Another percentage of Republicans will vote for Trump no matter what, just because they hate Democrats. But Trump will not be getting any other vote this time, unlike last time.
I do not buy the constant BS about Hillary that comes out Fox news et. al. But I do think she is somewhat corrupt in the sense that her foreign policy is too militaristic and she is too steeped in corporate backing for my liking.
I hope that answered your question.
I'm a centrist, and I did think Trump ran more moderate if not left of Clinton on various issues. The revisionists seem to forget how the election went. Trump was all over the place philosophically and won a lot of votes on the fact that Clinton was a bought and sold by Wall Street and those countries that contributed to the Clinton foundation. The latter played right into Trump's America First dogma. There was always Trump saying that, I don't usually agree with Bernie Sanders, but he is right about [then fill it in]heartofthebear said:
Trump actually seemed more progressive on many issues. Now that illusion is completely blown up. Trump speaks to his base only, even though it is about 30% of the public. Another percentage of Republicans will vote for Trump no matter what, just because they hate Democrats. But Trump will not be getting any other vote this time, unlike last time.
How Donald Trump is running to the left of Hillary Clinton ...www.chicagotribune.com nation-world ct-trump-cli...
Pssst...Trump: You Won By Running to Clinton's Left ...progressive.org dispatches pssst...trump-won-runnin...
Clinton was an open book and that worked against her. Trump was veiled and Clinton seemed to focus on the sins of being a businessman, which was a bit bizarre coming from a woman who had made a fortune on Wall Street speaking tours. We knew Trump had an ego, but no one really got his narcissistic personality (maybe the Chinese did), a horrible administrator that can't retain people (strange for a guy who ran a big company), and all the other things that make him toxic that you point out, regardless of policy (though his policies seem ill defined other than he goosed the economy with spending and tax cuts).
In any event, Biden will be the next President, and it is time to move on from Hillary Clinton.
wifeisafurd said:I'm a centrist, and I did think Trump ran more moderate if not left of Clinton on various issues. The revisionists seem to forget how the election went. Trump was all over the place philosophically and won a lot of votes on the fact that Clinton was a bought and sold by Wall Street and those countries that contributed to the Clinton foundation. The latter played right into Trump's America First dogma. There was always Trump saying that, I don't usually agree with Bernie Sanders, but he is right about [then fill it in]heartofthebear said:
Trump actually seemed more progressive on many issues. Now that illusion is completely blown up. Trump speaks to his base only, even though it is about 30% of the public. Another percentage of Republicans will vote for Trump no matter what, just because they hate Democrats. But Trump will not be getting any other vote this time, unlike last time.
How Donald Trump is running to the left of Hillary Clinton ...www.chicagotribune.com nation-world ct-trump-cli...
Pssst...Trump: You Won By Running to Clinton's Left ...progressive.org dispatches pssst...trump-won-runnin...
Clinton was an open book and that worked against her. Trump was veiled and Clinton seemed to focus on the sins of being a businessman, which was a bit bizarre coming from a woman who had made a fortune on Wall Street speaking tours. We knew Trump had an ego, but no one really got his narcissistic personality (maybe the Chinese did), a horrible administrator that can't retain people (strange for a guy who ran a big company), and all the other things that make him toxic that you point out, regardless of policy (though his policies seem ill defined other than he goosed the economy with spending and tax cuts).
In any event, Biden will be the next President, and it is time to move on from Hillary Clinton.
I actually thought Trump was a moderate. I did not know he would galvanize a white supremisist movement and allow them to become so militant. Nor did I think he would form the justice department as a means to allow partisan corruption. Those are the things I think of when I use the word toxic.
I can't believe a guy who started and encouraged "Lock Her Up!" chants about his political opponent would corrupt the Justice Department in some way.heartofthebear said:wifeisafurd said:I'm a centrist, and I did think Trump ran more moderate if not left of Clinton on various issues. The revisionists seem to forget how the election went. Trump was all over the place philosophically and won a lot of votes on the fact that Clinton was a bought and sold by Wall Street and those countries that contributed to the Clinton foundation. The latter played right into Trump's America First dogma. There was always Trump saying that, I don't usually agree with Bernie Sanders, but he is right about [then fill it in]heartofthebear said:
Trump actually seemed more progressive on many issues. Now that illusion is completely blown up. Trump speaks to his base only, even though it is about 30% of the public. Another percentage of Republicans will vote for Trump no matter what, just because they hate Democrats. But Trump will not be getting any other vote this time, unlike last time.
How Donald Trump is running to the left of Hillary Clinton ...www.chicagotribune.com nation-world ct-trump-cli...
Pssst...Trump: You Won By Running to Clinton's Left ...progressive.org dispatches pssst...trump-won-runnin...
Clinton was an open book and that worked against her. Trump was veiled and Clinton seemed to focus on the sins of being a businessman, which was a bit bizarre coming from a woman who had made a fortune on Wall Street speaking tours. We knew Trump had an ego, but no one really got his narcissistic personality (maybe the Chinese did), a horrible administrator that can't retain people (strange for a guy who ran a big company), and all the other things that make him toxic that you point out, regardless of policy (though his policies seem ill defined other than he goosed the economy with spending and tax cuts).
In any event, Biden will be the next President, and it is time to move on from Hillary Clinton.
I actually thought Trump was a moderate. I did not know he would galvanize a white supremisist movement and allow them to become so militant. Nor did I think he would form the justice department as a means to allow partisan corruption. Those are the things I think of when I use the word toxic.
Agreed. Everything Trump has become was easily knowable in 2016.sycasey said:I can't believe a guy who started and encouraged "Lock Her Up!" chants about his political opponent would corrupt the Justice Department in some way.heartofthebear said:wifeisafurd said:I'm a centrist, and I did think Trump ran more moderate if not left of Clinton on various issues. The revisionists seem to forget how the election went. Trump was all over the place philosophically and won a lot of votes on the fact that Clinton was a bought and sold by Wall Street and those countries that contributed to the Clinton foundation. The latter played right into Trump's America First dogma. There was always Trump saying that, I don't usually agree with Bernie Sanders, but he is right about [then fill it in]heartofthebear said:
Trump actually seemed more progressive on many issues. Now that illusion is completely blown up. Trump speaks to his base only, even though it is about 30% of the public. Another percentage of Republicans will vote for Trump no matter what, just because they hate Democrats. But Trump will not be getting any other vote this time, unlike last time.
How Donald Trump is running to the left of Hillary Clinton ...www.chicagotribune.com nation-world ct-trump-cli...
Pssst...Trump: You Won By Running to Clinton's Left ...progressive.org dispatches pssst...trump-won-runnin...
Clinton was an open book and that worked against her. Trump was veiled and Clinton seemed to focus on the sins of being a businessman, which was a bit bizarre coming from a woman who had made a fortune on Wall Street speaking tours. We knew Trump had an ego, but no one really got his narcissistic personality (maybe the Chinese did), a horrible administrator that can't retain people (strange for a guy who ran a big company), and all the other things that make him toxic that you point out, regardless of policy (though his policies seem ill defined other than he goosed the economy with spending and tax cuts).
In any event, Biden will be the next President, and it is time to move on from Hillary Clinton.
I actually thought Trump was a moderate. I did not know he would galvanize a white supremisist movement and allow them to become so militant. Nor did I think he would form the justice department as a means to allow partisan corruption. Those are the things I think of when I use the word toxic.
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