Sexism's OK, guys, just not "overt sexism." Got it.
cal's monster class - thread CLOSED - PLEASE do not post here
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Last: 3 yr ago by BearGreg
theo robertson is one of the greatest bears of all time (the best 3 point shooter in cal history who has the ability to share that information with nba players) & a tireless worker (unlike your "good human being" wyking jones who halted robertson's nba level game film opponent preparations) who will hopefully be a large part of the future of the cal basketball program
the fact that the insecure wyking didn't allow theo to be the lead recruiter cost us jordan brown, his dismissal cost us joshua christopher (former teammates theo & patrick christopher are close friends to this day)
the fact that mark fox did not bring back theo for his 1st staff despite working with him at basketball usa is mind boggling, his hiring of 3 non effective recruiting assistant coaches that got no ties to cal or deep relationships to west coast hoops is turning out to be fatal, his stubbornness to make any adjustments now is disappointing
theo is such a good person that despite the wyking fiasco he has now graciously agreed to currently serve as the big c's liaison to the basketball program, he's not a petty person
you are the only person who thinks theo made any mistakes (probably because you view wyking jones as your partner in dismantling cal's monster class in order to sell more premium subscriptions), do you think it's odd that you don't think he's an ideal cal assistant coach but steve kerr calls his golden state warriors player development coach a "rock star" and future head coach?
the fact that the insecure wyking didn't allow theo to be the lead recruiter cost us jordan brown, his dismissal cost us joshua christopher (former teammates theo & patrick christopher are close friends to this day)
the fact that mark fox did not bring back theo for his 1st staff despite working with him at basketball usa is mind boggling, his hiring of 3 non effective recruiting assistant coaches that got no ties to cal or deep relationships to west coast hoops is turning out to be fatal, his stubbornness to make any adjustments now is disappointing
theo is such a good person that despite the wyking fiasco he has now graciously agreed to currently serve as the big c's liaison to the basketball program, he's not a petty person
you are the only person who thinks theo made any mistakes (probably because you view wyking jones as your partner in dismantling cal's monster class in order to sell more premium subscriptions), do you think it's odd that you don't think he's an ideal cal assistant coach but steve kerr calls his golden state warriors player development coach a "rock star" and future head coach?
does your narrative that wyking jones is a "good human being" influenced at all by the documented use of a stripper mom & her underage daughter for prostitution with basketball recruits during his time in louisville & that still to this day jones considers rick pitino a "mentor"?
BearGreg said:
Always good to have more discussion about Men's basketball. And Shocky has always been welcome here so long as he abides by the same code of conduct everyone else does. That means no personal attacks, no overt sexism, and not sharing unsubstantiated rumors that can be harmful to former, current Cal players, coaches and administrators.
We will from time to time add some additional perspective to make sure folks have a more complete view of things. A couple things I will say on that front:
- Theo is a great former Cal Bear and has a tremendous career in front of him as a coach. However, he was not perfect when he came into Cal. First off he was not someone Wyking choose to have on his staff, the hire was foisted on him. Secondly, Theo struggled being the low assistant on the totem pole and pushed back on some of the duties that entailed. That said, Wyking, as he did elsewhere in the program, made a mess of the situation.
- Wyking is a good human being. A stand up guy with good intentions. He was over his head and was put in a position to fail by Mike Williams. From Paris Austin to Matt Bradley, the vast majority of the players who played for Coach Jones felt emotionally close to Wyking and trusted and liked him a lot as a human being. He was also not a fan of the Monster Thread and had some feedback about it from former players and former players families that was not positive. When we purchased Bear Insider, I had more critical mail about the Monster Thread then any other topic. At the same time, it was very popular. As with all things in life, people are not perfect nor is any message board thread.
- Cuonzo Martin left Cal for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which was the substantial salary increase he got at Missouri and the more lenient academic requirements for recruits. Based on many conversations with Coach Martin, thhe issue with his son not being admitted to Cal was not among the top 5 reasons he didn't stay.
- Our policies about editing and deleting posts here as well as banning users are well understood by this community and since the sites traffic has increased by almost 20% since we took over, apparently we've done okay with this approach. Our feelings are not hurt by being called "censors" though it's not exactly in good taste.
- The younger Abdur-Rahim never had serious interest in Cal, when coming out of HS and now has a transfer. He wanted to stay on the East Coast.
- Ashwin Puri was not soley focused on Musselman, though it is true they had a prior relationship and that he supported his candidacy. I agree with Shocky that he would not have been a good fit here thought he's clearly an exceptional coach. To criticize Ashwin is to miss the Elephant in the room which is Mike Williams and his agenda as the AD when Martin left. Ashwin's efforts were akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
- The notion or implication that Mark Fox was dirty at any time in his career including at Georgia is flat out wrong and misguided.
It's always a good reminder that we can use the word AND in life. Wyking Jones was a bad hire who failed miserably at Cal AND he is a very solid human being who was well liked and respected by almost everyone around him. Mark Fox is currently struggling at Cal and our program lacks fan interest and enthusiasm AND he would never cheat to win. Theo Robertson was a Cal great, a young and talented coach AND he was put in a terrible situation by Mike Williams which both he and Wyking Jones did not handle well.
More important than all of the above is that Cal basketball is now in year four of a truly sad situation. Fan support is abysmal, the program is in dire need of a practice facility at a time when donor interest is not high. Mark Fox is our coach and hopefully he will add two strong transfers this Spring/Summer and we will see a strong year in 2021-22. If not, it will be time to discuss a change in leadership and ideally a coach who is a strong natural recruiter and who makes energizing Cal's fan and donor base a top priority.
I nominate this as THE BEST POST EVER on the Hoops board. Thank you. Please stop by more often.
And congrats on +20% traffic!
on a positive refreshing note, gotta give you props for finally admitting that you conspired with that "good human being" wyking jones to censor cal's monster class
your premium information is priceless
your premium information is priceless
and finally given all of the other false information disseminated by the censor, its kinda hard to believe that your biz has grown 20% when there are only 29 active posters on the basketball board and both basketball/football attendance has been declining in recent years due to lack of fan interest, perhaps your getting your numbers from the iraqi war minister or something
you posted on another thread that you would bet seven figures that mark fox has never been involved or aware of any scheme to pay a player, if i arrange a zoom call for us with jaylen brown to explain the details of his $200k georgia offer, will you accept that as conclusive proof and write me a check for $1,000,000?
betting is fun (when one side knows the odds & the other is clueless)#
betting is fun (when one side knows the odds & the other is clueless)#
Shocky1 said:
you posted on another thread that you would bet seven figures that mark fox has never been involved or aware of any scheme to pay a player, if i arrange a zoom call for us with jaylen brown to explain the details of his $200k georgia offer, will you accept that as conclusive proof and write me a check for $1,000,000?
betting is fun (when one side knows the odds & the other is clueless)#
Something tells me Jaylen would rather leave you standing at the alter than get involved in your bet publicly. But if you can pull that one off...
Are you willing to risk your reputation on it? Oh never mind... that's not worth the million dollars you're asking for. Are you willing to bet a million that jaylen will back up your assertion? Maybe you can get 30 for 30 to make a show of it.
Shocky1 said:
and finally given all of the other false information disseminated by the censor, its kinda hard to believe that your biz has grown 20% when there are only 29 active posters on the basketball board and both basketball/football attendance has been declining in recent years due to lack of fan interest, perhaps your getting your numbers from the iraqi war minister or something
Knee jerk answer: Trump-hatred driven explosion on the OT board spawned an entirely newly active board to join growls and hoops.
Maybe as easy as that.
Shocky1 said:
does your narrative that wyking jones is a "good human being" influenced at all by the documented use of a stripper mom & her underage daughter for prostitution with basketball recruits during his time in louisville & that still to this day jones considers rick pitino a "mentor"?
Mods: "Do not share 'unsubstantiated rumors that can be harmful to former...coaches.'"
Shocky later the same day: "Cal's former coach Wyking Jones utilized a stripper mom and her underage prostitute daughter to pleasure recruits."
Let's see if the mods here have any balls. This three day experiment of having back the most annoying poster in the history of this board is not going well.
I apologize, Bill, for harshing you.
Like I said elsewhere, if you cut the curvy yoga stuff, who players are dating, what they are wearing or otherwise insult, expose or intrude into their private lives, I will shut up.
Thanks and may we go our separate ways in peace.
Like I said elsewhere, if you cut the curvy yoga stuff, who players are dating, what they are wearing or otherwise insult, expose or intrude into their private lives, I will shut up.
Thanks and may we go our separate ways in peace.
"A strong national recruiter".....BearGreg said:
Always good to have more discussion about Men's basketball. And Shocky has always been welcome here so long as he abides by the same code of conduct everyone else does. That means no personal attacks, no overt sexism, and not sharing unsubstantiated rumors that can be harmful to former, current Cal players, coaches and administrators.
We will from time to time add some additional perspective to make sure folks have a more complete view of things. A couple things I will say on that front:
- Theo is a great former Cal Bear and has a tremendous career in front of him as a coach. However, he was not perfect when he came into Cal. First off he was not someone Wyking choose to have on his staff, the hire was foisted on him. Secondly, Theo struggled being the low assistant on the totem pole and pushed back on some of the duties that entailed. That said, Wyking, as he did elsewhere in the program, made a mess of the situation.
- Wyking is a good human being. A stand up guy with good intentions. He was over his head and was put in a position to fail by Mike Williams. From Paris Austin to Matt Bradley, the vast majority of the players who played for Coach Jones felt emotionally close to Wyking and trusted and liked him a lot as a human being. He was also not a fan of the Monster Thread and had some feedback about it from former players and former players families that was not positive. When we purchased Bear Insider, I had more critical mail about the Monster Thread then any other topic. At the same time, it was very popular. As with all things in life, people are not perfect nor is any message board thread.
- Cuonzo Martin left Cal for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which was the substantial salary increase he got at Missouri and the more lenient academic requirements for recruits. Based on many conversations with Coach Martin, thhe issue with his son not being admitted to Cal was not among the top 5 reasons he didn't stay.
- Our policies about editing and deleting posts here as well as banning users are well understood by this community and since the sites traffic has increased by almost 20% since we took over, apparently we've done okay with this approach. Our feelings are not hurt by being called "censors" though it's not exactly in good taste.
- The younger Abdur-Rahim never had serious interest in Cal, when coming out of HS and now has a transfer. He wanted to stay on the East Coast.
- Ashwin Puri was not soley focused on Musselman, though it is true they had a prior relationship and that he supported his candidacy. I agree with Shocky that he would not have been a good fit here thought he's clearly an exceptional coach. To criticize Ashwin is to miss the Elephant in the room which is Mike Williams and his agenda as the AD when Martin left. Ashwin's efforts were akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
- The notion or implication that Mark Fox was dirty at any time in his career including at Georgia is flat out wrong and misguided.
It's always a good reminder that we can use the word AND in life. Wyking Jones was a bad hire who failed miserably at Cal AND he is a very solid human being who was well liked and respected by almost everyone around him. Mark Fox is currently struggling at Cal and our program lacks fan interest and enthusiasm AND he would never cheat to win. Theo Robertson was a Cal great, a young and talented coach AND he was put in a terrible situation by Mike Williams which both he and Wyking Jones did not handle well.
More important than all of the above is that Cal basketball is now in year four of a truly sad situation. Fan support is abysmal, the program is in dire need of a practice facility at a time when donor interest is not high. Mark Fox is our coach and hopefully he will add two strong transfers this Spring/Summer and we will see a strong year in 2021-22. If not, it will be time to discuss a change in leadership and ideally a coach who is a strong natural recruiter and who makes energizing Cal's fan and donor base a top priority.
I just think that flies in the face of every data point we have about Cal in the last 30 years. We need a guy who recruits strong ON THE WEST COAST and in particular SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA (cause that is where the population center is and which produces, on a per capita basis, most of the hoop talent.
Seriously - when was the last time a Cal recruit from OUTSIDE California had a dramatic impact on the trajectory of either football or basketball? MAYBE SAR. MAYBE (if you really try hard) Jalen Brown. Now lets compare that with Crabbe, Kidd, Money, Rodgers, Roth, etc. etc. etc.
We are, when it comes to SPORTS, a STATE SCHOOL. That means hiring a guy who kills it in california - who has deep and decades(?) long roots to the AAU programs and leaders in this state. Who knows the high school coaching ranks well.
It stars with knowing who we are and then leveraging that. We have NO national footprint, in the minds of elite athletes. We do, however, have mind share in this state.
I go back so far I can remember when soap operas only aired during the day. It's apparently not the off-season for drama!
socaltownie said:"A strong national recruiter".....BearGreg said:
Always good to have more discussion about Men's basketball. And Shocky has always been welcome here so long as he abides by the same code of conduct everyone else does. That means no personal attacks, no overt sexism, and not sharing unsubstantiated rumors that can be harmful to former, current Cal players, coaches and administrators.
We will from time to time add some additional perspective to make sure folks have a more complete view of things. A couple things I will say on that front:
- Theo is a great former Cal Bear and has a tremendous career in front of him as a coach. However, he was not perfect when he came into Cal. First off he was not someone Wyking choose to have on his staff, the hire was foisted on him. Secondly, Theo struggled being the low assistant on the totem pole and pushed back on some of the duties that entailed. That said, Wyking, as he did elsewhere in the program, made a mess of the situation.
- Wyking is a good human being. A stand up guy with good intentions. He was over his head and was put in a position to fail by Mike Williams. From Paris Austin to Matt Bradley, the vast majority of the players who played for Coach Jones felt emotionally close to Wyking and trusted and liked him a lot as a human being. He was also not a fan of the Monster Thread and had some feedback about it from former players and former players families that was not positive. When we purchased Bear Insider, I had more critical mail about the Monster Thread then any other topic. At the same time, it was very popular. As with all things in life, people are not perfect nor is any message board thread.
- Cuonzo Martin left Cal for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which was the substantial salary increase he got at Missouri and the more lenient academic requirements for recruits. Based on many conversations with Coach Martin, thhe issue with his son not being admitted to Cal was not among the top 5 reasons he didn't stay.
- Our policies about editing and deleting posts here as well as banning users are well understood by this community and since the sites traffic has increased by almost 20% since we took over, apparently we've done okay with this approach. Our feelings are not hurt by being called "censors" though it's not exactly in good taste.
- The younger Abdur-Rahim never had serious interest in Cal, when coming out of HS and now has a transfer. He wanted to stay on the East Coast.
- Ashwin Puri was not soley focused on Musselman, though it is true they had a prior relationship and that he supported his candidacy. I agree with Shocky that he would not have been a good fit here thought he's clearly an exceptional coach. To criticize Ashwin is to miss the Elephant in the room which is Mike Williams and his agenda as the AD when Martin left. Ashwin's efforts were akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
- The notion or implication that Mark Fox was dirty at any time in his career including at Georgia is flat out wrong and misguided.
It's always a good reminder that we can use the word AND in life. Wyking Jones was a bad hire who failed miserably at Cal AND he is a very solid human being who was well liked and respected by almost everyone around him. Mark Fox is currently struggling at Cal and our program lacks fan interest and enthusiasm AND he would never cheat to win. Theo Robertson was a Cal great, a young and talented coach AND he was put in a terrible situation by Mike Williams which both he and Wyking Jones did not handle well.
More important than all of the above is that Cal basketball is now in year four of a truly sad situation. Fan support is abysmal, the program is in dire need of a practice facility at a time when donor interest is not high. Mark Fox is our coach and hopefully he will add two strong transfers this Spring/Summer and we will see a strong year in 2021-22. If not, it will be time to discuss a change in leadership and ideally a coach who is a strong natural recruiter and who makes energizing Cal's fan and donor base a top priority.
I just think that flies in the face of every data point we have about Cal in the last 30 years. We need a guy who recruits strong ON THE WEST COAST and in particular SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA (cause that is where the population center is and which produces, on a per capita basis, most of the hoop talent.
Seriously - when was the last time a Cal recruit from OUTSIDE California had a dramatic impact on the trajectory of either football or basketball? MAYBE SAR. MAYBE (if you really try hard) Jalen Brown. Now lets compare that with Crabbe, Kidd, Money, Rodgers, Roth, etc. etc. etc.
We are, when it comes to SPORTS, a STATE SCHOOL. That means hiring a guy who kills it in california - who has deep and decades(?) long roots to the AAU programs and leaders in this state. Who knows the high school coaching ranks well.
It stars with knowing who we are and then leveraging that. We have NO national footprint, in the minds of elite athletes. We do, however, have mind share in this state.
It is not either, it is all of the above. We need to get the top local talent like Kidd and Powe and national talent including SoCal attracted to our academics like Jaylen and Shareef and recruit internationally like Marks and Nowitski. Relationships with high school, JC and AAU coaches on the West Coast are paramount. That is our base.
Campanelli, Bozeman, Braun, Monty, Martin even Jones (eventually) were all competent to varying degrees at the above, so it is not a huge ask. Monty did the only competent job of coaching them up.
It isn't rocket science, even if it pays a lot better.
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Just to make sure I follow:Shocky1 said:
it is absolutely fake news to say wyking jones is a good human being, perhaps you feel that way because he worked with you to censor cal's monster class to move the trajectory of the cal basketball program to one that you both could agree upon
You believe Wyking worked with me to censor Bear Insider and as a result that led to the last four years of Cal basketball struggling? And that was intentional because both of us wanted Cal basketball to fail?
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All I can do is relay my view after many conversations with Ashwin during and after the process. Your take is different than mine. C'est la vieShocky1 said:
ashwin puri has directly told me during his time now with the oakland a's that in retrospect he made a mistake in singularly focusing on eric musselman, do you have the ability to read his inner mind beyond even his own thoughts & words?
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Please flag it - ThanksCoffeeBear said:
If y'all really don't tolerate personal attacks, I would hope you'd enforce that policy with regards to the poster on the WJ thread that was so inappropriate with comments about Shocky's kid. Way wrong, imho
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What Jabri told Josh Gershon is very different from what we heard from him and his family and those close to him in his recruitment. That's not surprising as "I can imagine . . ." is very different from "what I really want".Shocky1 said:
reread the 1st link in my post above re: rahim, "jabri told josh gershon that...i've always pictured myself moving back to california"...are you saying you got inside information that goes beyond the recruits own words?
and now your selling the narrative that it's not the staff's fault (which is a common theme with you), it's because he wanted to stay on the east coast (in what world is atlanta truly on the east coast?)
reality is that mark fox did not build a trusting relationship with the family during his georgia days & now shareef (who mentored jaylen) and brown are not gonna send jabri to cal despite everybody in the family's love & respect for berkeley academics
We've got plenty of criticism for the staff's recruiting, it's just that in Jabri's case there was close to zero chance he was ever leaving the East Coast even if Mark Fox was suddenly turned into John Calipari.
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So far as I understand it and I'm happy to have you or others share information to the contrary, Jones was in no way involved with that scandal. The investigation reports that I read that led to Pitino's ouster never mentioned Wyking once while other assistants were named.Shocky1 said:
does your narrative that wyking jones is a "good human being" influenced at all by the documented use of a stripper mom & her underage daughter for prostitution with basketball recruits during his time in louisville & that still to this day jones considers rick pitino a "mentor"?
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I said "natural" recruiter, not "national" recruiter.socaltownie said:"A strong national recruiter".....BearGreg said:
Always good to have more discussion about Men's basketball. And Shocky has always been welcome here so long as he abides by the same code of conduct everyone else does. That means no personal attacks, no overt sexism, and not sharing unsubstantiated rumors that can be harmful to former, current Cal players, coaches and administrators.
We will from time to time add some additional perspective to make sure folks have a more complete view of things. A couple things I will say on that front:
- Theo is a great former Cal Bear and has a tremendous career in front of him as a coach. However, he was not perfect when he came into Cal. First off he was not someone Wyking choose to have on his staff, the hire was foisted on him. Secondly, Theo struggled being the low assistant on the totem pole and pushed back on some of the duties that entailed. That said, Wyking, as he did elsewhere in the program, made a mess of the situation.
- Wyking is a good human being. A stand up guy with good intentions. He was over his head and was put in a position to fail by Mike Williams. From Paris Austin to Matt Bradley, the vast majority of the players who played for Coach Jones felt emotionally close to Wyking and trusted and liked him a lot as a human being. He was also not a fan of the Monster Thread and had some feedback about it from former players and former players families that was not positive. When we purchased Bear Insider, I had more critical mail about the Monster Thread then any other topic. At the same time, it was very popular. As with all things in life, people are not perfect nor is any message board thread.
- Cuonzo Martin left Cal for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which was the substantial salary increase he got at Missouri and the more lenient academic requirements for recruits. Based on many conversations with Coach Martin, thhe issue with his son not being admitted to Cal was not among the top 5 reasons he didn't stay.
- Our policies about editing and deleting posts here as well as banning users are well understood by this community and since the sites traffic has increased by almost 20% since we took over, apparently we've done okay with this approach. Our feelings are not hurt by being called "censors" though it's not exactly in good taste.
- The younger Abdur-Rahim never had serious interest in Cal, when coming out of HS and now has a transfer. He wanted to stay on the East Coast.
- Ashwin Puri was not soley focused on Musselman, though it is true they had a prior relationship and that he supported his candidacy. I agree with Shocky that he would not have been a good fit here thought he's clearly an exceptional coach. To criticize Ashwin is to miss the Elephant in the room which is Mike Williams and his agenda as the AD when Martin left. Ashwin's efforts were akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
- The notion or implication that Mark Fox was dirty at any time in his career including at Georgia is flat out wrong and misguided.
It's always a good reminder that we can use the word AND in life. Wyking Jones was a bad hire who failed miserably at Cal AND he is a very solid human being who was well liked and respected by almost everyone around him. Mark Fox is currently struggling at Cal and our program lacks fan interest and enthusiasm AND he would never cheat to win. Theo Robertson was a Cal great, a young and talented coach AND he was put in a terrible situation by Mike Williams which both he and Wyking Jones did not handle well.
More important than all of the above is that Cal basketball is now in year four of a truly sad situation. Fan support is abysmal, the program is in dire need of a practice facility at a time when donor interest is not high. Mark Fox is our coach and hopefully he will add two strong transfers this Spring/Summer and we will see a strong year in 2021-22. If not, it will be time to discuss a change in leadership and ideally a coach who is a strong natural recruiter and who makes energizing Cal's fan and donor base a top priority.
I just think that flies in the face of every data point we have about Cal in the last 30 years. We need a guy who recruits strong ON THE WEST COAST and in particular SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA (cause that is where the population center is and which produces, on a per capita basis, most of the hoop talent.
Seriously - when was the last time a Cal recruit from OUTSIDE California had a dramatic impact on the trajectory of either football or basketball? MAYBE SAR. MAYBE (if you really try hard) Jalen Brown. Now lets compare that with Crabbe, Kidd, Money, Rodgers, Roth, etc. etc. etc.
We are, when it comes to SPORTS, a STATE SCHOOL. That means hiring a guy who kills it in california - who has deep and decades(?) long roots to the AAU programs and leaders in this state. Who knows the high school coaching ranks well.
It stars with knowing who we are and then leveraging that. We have NO national footprint, in the minds of elite athletes. We do, however, have mind share in this state.
BearGreg said:I said "natural" recruiter, not "national" recruiter.socaltownie said:"A strong national recruiter".....BearGreg said:
Always good to have more discussion about Men's basketball. And Shocky has always been welcome here so long as he abides by the same code of conduct everyone else does. That means no personal attacks, no overt sexism, and not sharing unsubstantiated rumors that can be harmful to former, current Cal players, coaches and administrators.
We will from time to time add some additional perspective to make sure folks have a more complete view of things. A couple things I will say on that front:
- Theo is a great former Cal Bear and has a tremendous career in front of him as a coach. However, he was not perfect when he came into Cal. First off he was not someone Wyking choose to have on his staff, the hire was foisted on him. Secondly, Theo struggled being the low assistant on the totem pole and pushed back on some of the duties that entailed. That said, Wyking, as he did elsewhere in the program, made a mess of the situation.
- Wyking is a good human being. A stand up guy with good intentions. He was over his head and was put in a position to fail by Mike Williams. From Paris Austin to Matt Bradley, the vast majority of the players who played for Coach Jones felt emotionally close to Wyking and trusted and liked him a lot as a human being. He was also not a fan of the Monster Thread and had some feedback about it from former players and former players families that was not positive. When we purchased Bear Insider, I had more critical mail about the Monster Thread then any other topic. At the same time, it was very popular. As with all things in life, people are not perfect nor is any message board thread.
- Cuonzo Martin left Cal for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which was the substantial salary increase he got at Missouri and the more lenient academic requirements for recruits. Based on many conversations with Coach Martin, thhe issue with his son not being admitted to Cal was not among the top 5 reasons he didn't stay.
- Our policies about editing and deleting posts here as well as banning users are well understood by this community and since the sites traffic has increased by almost 20% since we took over, apparently we've done okay with this approach. Our feelings are not hurt by being called "censors" though it's not exactly in good taste.
- The younger Abdur-Rahim never had serious interest in Cal, when coming out of HS and now has a transfer. He wanted to stay on the East Coast.
- Ashwin Puri was not soley focused on Musselman, though it is true they had a prior relationship and that he supported his candidacy. I agree with Shocky that he would not have been a good fit here thought he's clearly an exceptional coach. To criticize Ashwin is to miss the Elephant in the room which is Mike Williams and his agenda as the AD when Martin left. Ashwin's efforts were akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
- The notion or implication that Mark Fox was dirty at any time in his career including at Georgia is flat out wrong and misguided.
It's always a good reminder that we can use the word AND in life. Wyking Jones was a bad hire who failed miserably at Cal AND he is a very solid human being who was well liked and respected by almost everyone around him. Mark Fox is currently struggling at Cal and our program lacks fan interest and enthusiasm AND he would never cheat to win. Theo Robertson was a Cal great, a young and talented coach AND he was put in a terrible situation by Mike Williams which both he and Wyking Jones did not handle well.
More important than all of the above is that Cal basketball is now in year four of a truly sad situation. Fan support is abysmal, the program is in dire need of a practice facility at a time when donor interest is not high. Mark Fox is our coach and hopefully he will add two strong transfers this Spring/Summer and we will see a strong year in 2021-22. If not, it will be time to discuss a change in leadership and ideally a coach who is a strong natural recruiter and who makes energizing Cal's fan and donor base a top priority.
I just think that flies in the face of every data point we have about Cal in the last 30 years. We need a guy who recruits strong ON THE WEST COAST and in particular SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA (cause that is where the population center is and which produces, on a per capita basis, most of the hoop talent.
Seriously - when was the last time a Cal recruit from OUTSIDE California had a dramatic impact on the trajectory of either football or basketball? MAYBE SAR. MAYBE (if you really try hard) Jalen Brown. Now lets compare that with Crabbe, Kidd, Money, Rodgers, Roth, etc. etc. etc.
We are, when it comes to SPORTS, a STATE SCHOOL. That means hiring a guy who kills it in california - who has deep and decades(?) long roots to the AAU programs and leaders in this state. Who knows the high school coaching ranks well.
It stars with knowing who we are and then leveraging that. We have NO national footprint, in the minds of elite athletes. We do, however, have mind share in this state.
I am going to come back on this. The idea that people can do it all leads to choices like Fox ("Hey, he can also recruit Georgia.") No. There is a real benefit (Bennet at St Mary's?) in specialization in recruiting. There are only so many days in the year, so much money in your recruiting budget, so many minutes of ass kissing of AAU coaches that one can squeeze into the day. I want someone who is able to STARTS with a deep California connection.calumnus said:socaltownie said:"A strong national recruiter".....BearGreg said:
Always good to have more discussion about Men's basketball. And Shocky has always been welcome here so long as he abides by the same code of conduct everyone else does. That means no personal attacks, no overt sexism, and not sharing unsubstantiated rumors that can be harmful to former, current Cal players, coaches and administrators.
We will from time to time add some additional perspective to make sure folks have a more complete view of things. A couple things I will say on that front:
- Theo is a great former Cal Bear and has a tremendous career in front of him as a coach. However, he was not perfect when he came into Cal. First off he was not someone Wyking choose to have on his staff, the hire was foisted on him. Secondly, Theo struggled being the low assistant on the totem pole and pushed back on some of the duties that entailed. That said, Wyking, as he did elsewhere in the program, made a mess of the situation.
- Wyking is a good human being. A stand up guy with good intentions. He was over his head and was put in a position to fail by Mike Williams. From Paris Austin to Matt Bradley, the vast majority of the players who played for Coach Jones felt emotionally close to Wyking and trusted and liked him a lot as a human being. He was also not a fan of the Monster Thread and had some feedback about it from former players and former players families that was not positive. When we purchased Bear Insider, I had more critical mail about the Monster Thread then any other topic. At the same time, it was very popular. As with all things in life, people are not perfect nor is any message board thread.
- Cuonzo Martin left Cal for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which was the substantial salary increase he got at Missouri and the more lenient academic requirements for recruits. Based on many conversations with Coach Martin, thhe issue with his son not being admitted to Cal was not among the top 5 reasons he didn't stay.
- Our policies about editing and deleting posts here as well as banning users are well understood by this community and since the sites traffic has increased by almost 20% since we took over, apparently we've done okay with this approach. Our feelings are not hurt by being called "censors" though it's not exactly in good taste.
- The younger Abdur-Rahim never had serious interest in Cal, when coming out of HS and now has a transfer. He wanted to stay on the East Coast.
- Ashwin Puri was not soley focused on Musselman, though it is true they had a prior relationship and that he supported his candidacy. I agree with Shocky that he would not have been a good fit here thought he's clearly an exceptional coach. To criticize Ashwin is to miss the Elephant in the room which is Mike Williams and his agenda as the AD when Martin left. Ashwin's efforts were akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
- The notion or implication that Mark Fox was dirty at any time in his career including at Georgia is flat out wrong and misguided.
It's always a good reminder that we can use the word AND in life. Wyking Jones was a bad hire who failed miserably at Cal AND he is a very solid human being who was well liked and respected by almost everyone around him. Mark Fox is currently struggling at Cal and our program lacks fan interest and enthusiasm AND he would never cheat to win. Theo Robertson was a Cal great, a young and talented coach AND he was put in a terrible situation by Mike Williams which both he and Wyking Jones did not handle well.
More important than all of the above is that Cal basketball is now in year four of a truly sad situation. Fan support is abysmal, the program is in dire need of a practice facility at a time when donor interest is not high. Mark Fox is our coach and hopefully he will add two strong transfers this Spring/Summer and we will see a strong year in 2021-22. If not, it will be time to discuss a change in leadership and ideally a coach who is a strong natural recruiter and who makes energizing Cal's fan and donor base a top priority.
I just think that flies in the face of every data point we have about Cal in the last 30 years. We need a guy who recruits strong ON THE WEST COAST and in particular SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA (cause that is where the population center is and which produces, on a per capita basis, most of the hoop talent.
Seriously - when was the last time a Cal recruit from OUTSIDE California had a dramatic impact on the trajectory of either football or basketball? MAYBE SAR. MAYBE (if you really try hard) Jalen Brown. Now lets compare that with Crabbe, Kidd, Money, Rodgers, Roth, etc. etc. etc.
We are, when it comes to SPORTS, a STATE SCHOOL. That means hiring a guy who kills it in california - who has deep and decades(?) long roots to the AAU programs and leaders in this state. Who knows the high school coaching ranks well.
It stars with knowing who we are and then leveraging that. We have NO national footprint, in the minds of elite athletes. We do, however, have mind share in this state.
It is not either, it is all of the above. We need to get the top local talent like Kidd and Powe and national talent including SoCal attracted to our academics like Jaylen and Shareef and recruit internationally like Marks and Nowitski. Relationships with high school, JC and AAU coaches on the West Coast are paramount. That is our base.
Campanelli, Bozeman, Braun, Monty, Martin even Jones (eventually) were all competent to varying degrees at the above, so it is not a huge ask. Monty did the only competent job of coaching them up.
It isn't rocket science, even if it pays a lot better.
BTW - The issue with Braun is actually really interesting. I did not realize that his dad was a pretty sucessful producer in Hollywood, likely meaning that he didn't start from square one, even as a chicago guy, about what makes California tick. I don't need to underscore that Tedford and Wilcox where california guys.
LOL. What happens when I try to read BI on my smart phone.BearGreg said:I said "natural" recruiter, not "national" recruiter.socaltownie said:"A strong national recruiter".....BearGreg said:
Always good to have more discussion about Men's basketball. And Shocky has always been welcome here so long as he abides by the same code of conduct everyone else does. That means no personal attacks, no overt sexism, and not sharing unsubstantiated rumors that can be harmful to former, current Cal players, coaches and administrators.
We will from time to time add some additional perspective to make sure folks have a more complete view of things. A couple things I will say on that front:
- Theo is a great former Cal Bear and has a tremendous career in front of him as a coach. However, he was not perfect when he came into Cal. First off he was not someone Wyking choose to have on his staff, the hire was foisted on him. Secondly, Theo struggled being the low assistant on the totem pole and pushed back on some of the duties that entailed. That said, Wyking, as he did elsewhere in the program, made a mess of the situation.
- Wyking is a good human being. A stand up guy with good intentions. He was over his head and was put in a position to fail by Mike Williams. From Paris Austin to Matt Bradley, the vast majority of the players who played for Coach Jones felt emotionally close to Wyking and trusted and liked him a lot as a human being. He was also not a fan of the Monster Thread and had some feedback about it from former players and former players families that was not positive. When we purchased Bear Insider, I had more critical mail about the Monster Thread then any other topic. At the same time, it was very popular. As with all things in life, people are not perfect nor is any message board thread.
- Cuonzo Martin left Cal for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which was the substantial salary increase he got at Missouri and the more lenient academic requirements for recruits. Based on many conversations with Coach Martin, thhe issue with his son not being admitted to Cal was not among the top 5 reasons he didn't stay.
- Our policies about editing and deleting posts here as well as banning users are well understood by this community and since the sites traffic has increased by almost 20% since we took over, apparently we've done okay with this approach. Our feelings are not hurt by being called "censors" though it's not exactly in good taste.
- The younger Abdur-Rahim never had serious interest in Cal, when coming out of HS and now has a transfer. He wanted to stay on the East Coast.
- Ashwin Puri was not soley focused on Musselman, though it is true they had a prior relationship and that he supported his candidacy. I agree with Shocky that he would not have been a good fit here thought he's clearly an exceptional coach. To criticize Ashwin is to miss the Elephant in the room which is Mike Williams and his agenda as the AD when Martin left. Ashwin's efforts were akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
- The notion or implication that Mark Fox was dirty at any time in his career including at Georgia is flat out wrong and misguided.
It's always a good reminder that we can use the word AND in life. Wyking Jones was a bad hire who failed miserably at Cal AND he is a very solid human being who was well liked and respected by almost everyone around him. Mark Fox is currently struggling at Cal and our program lacks fan interest and enthusiasm AND he would never cheat to win. Theo Robertson was a Cal great, a young and talented coach AND he was put in a terrible situation by Mike Williams which both he and Wyking Jones did not handle well.
More important than all of the above is that Cal basketball is now in year four of a truly sad situation. Fan support is abysmal, the program is in dire need of a practice facility at a time when donor interest is not high. Mark Fox is our coach and hopefully he will add two strong transfers this Spring/Summer and we will see a strong year in 2021-22. If not, it will be time to discuss a change in leadership and ideally a coach who is a strong natural recruiter and who makes energizing Cal's fan and donor base a top priority.
I just think that flies in the face of every data point we have about Cal in the last 30 years. We need a guy who recruits strong ON THE WEST COAST and in particular SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA (cause that is where the population center is and which produces, on a per capita basis, most of the hoop talent.
Seriously - when was the last time a Cal recruit from OUTSIDE California had a dramatic impact on the trajectory of either football or basketball? MAYBE SAR. MAYBE (if you really try hard) Jalen Brown. Now lets compare that with Crabbe, Kidd, Money, Rodgers, Roth, etc. etc. etc.
We are, when it comes to SPORTS, a STATE SCHOOL. That means hiring a guy who kills it in california - who has deep and decades(?) long roots to the AAU programs and leaders in this state. Who knows the high school coaching ranks well.
It stars with knowing who we are and then leveraging that. We have NO national footprint, in the minds of elite athletes. We do, however, have mind share in this state.
I do think, however, that the point stands. What the next hire ABSOLUTELY needs is California ties. We have tried the other approach (now three times) and it is pretty clear that if you can't recruit well in SoCal you are not recruiting well to Cal.
Heck, I wouldn't be at all surprised, if we dug a bit, that some of the out of state recruits we have gone after which had FINE academic records didn't have A-G requirements met (cause California thing) and thus required the coach/AD to go hat in hand to get a waiver.
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FWIW, Fox had a background as a West Coast guy from his Nevada and UW days. And then he made a conscious choice to retain Marty Wilson over David Grace (or a new hire) as his California recruiter. So far, that's led to 2K (via Napa), Bowser, Roberson and Anyanwu.socaltownie said:LOL. What happens when I try to read BI on my smart phone.BearGreg said:I said "natural" recruiter, not "national" recruiter.socaltownie said:"A strong national recruiter".....BearGreg said:
Always good to have more discussion about Men's basketball. And Shocky has always been welcome here so long as he abides by the same code of conduct everyone else does. That means no personal attacks, no overt sexism, and not sharing unsubstantiated rumors that can be harmful to former, current Cal players, coaches and administrators.
We will from time to time add some additional perspective to make sure folks have a more complete view of things. A couple things I will say on that front:
- Theo is a great former Cal Bear and has a tremendous career in front of him as a coach. However, he was not perfect when he came into Cal. First off he was not someone Wyking choose to have on his staff, the hire was foisted on him. Secondly, Theo struggled being the low assistant on the totem pole and pushed back on some of the duties that entailed. That said, Wyking, as he did elsewhere in the program, made a mess of the situation.
- Wyking is a good human being. A stand up guy with good intentions. He was over his head and was put in a position to fail by Mike Williams. From Paris Austin to Matt Bradley, the vast majority of the players who played for Coach Jones felt emotionally close to Wyking and trusted and liked him a lot as a human being. He was also not a fan of the Monster Thread and had some feedback about it from former players and former players families that was not positive. When we purchased Bear Insider, I had more critical mail about the Monster Thread then any other topic. At the same time, it was very popular. As with all things in life, people are not perfect nor is any message board thread.
- Cuonzo Martin left Cal for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which was the substantial salary increase he got at Missouri and the more lenient academic requirements for recruits. Based on many conversations with Coach Martin, thhe issue with his son not being admitted to Cal was not among the top 5 reasons he didn't stay.
- Our policies about editing and deleting posts here as well as banning users are well understood by this community and since the sites traffic has increased by almost 20% since we took over, apparently we've done okay with this approach. Our feelings are not hurt by being called "censors" though it's not exactly in good taste.
- The younger Abdur-Rahim never had serious interest in Cal, when coming out of HS and now has a transfer. He wanted to stay on the East Coast.
- Ashwin Puri was not soley focused on Musselman, though it is true they had a prior relationship and that he supported his candidacy. I agree with Shocky that he would not have been a good fit here thought he's clearly an exceptional coach. To criticize Ashwin is to miss the Elephant in the room which is Mike Williams and his agenda as the AD when Martin left. Ashwin's efforts were akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
- The notion or implication that Mark Fox was dirty at any time in his career including at Georgia is flat out wrong and misguided.
It's always a good reminder that we can use the word AND in life. Wyking Jones was a bad hire who failed miserably at Cal AND he is a very solid human being who was well liked and respected by almost everyone around him. Mark Fox is currently struggling at Cal and our program lacks fan interest and enthusiasm AND he would never cheat to win. Theo Robertson was a Cal great, a young and talented coach AND he was put in a terrible situation by Mike Williams which both he and Wyking Jones did not handle well.
More important than all of the above is that Cal basketball is now in year four of a truly sad situation. Fan support is abysmal, the program is in dire need of a practice facility at a time when donor interest is not high. Mark Fox is our coach and hopefully he will add two strong transfers this Spring/Summer and we will see a strong year in 2021-22. If not, it will be time to discuss a change in leadership and ideally a coach who is a strong natural recruiter and who makes energizing Cal's fan and donor base a top priority.
I just think that flies in the face of every data point we have about Cal in the last 30 years. We need a guy who recruits strong ON THE WEST COAST and in particular SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA (cause that is where the population center is and which produces, on a per capita basis, most of the hoop talent.
Seriously - when was the last time a Cal recruit from OUTSIDE California had a dramatic impact on the trajectory of either football or basketball? MAYBE SAR. MAYBE (if you really try hard) Jalen Brown. Now lets compare that with Crabbe, Kidd, Money, Rodgers, Roth, etc. etc. etc.
We are, when it comes to SPORTS, a STATE SCHOOL. That means hiring a guy who kills it in california - who has deep and decades(?) long roots to the AAU programs and leaders in this state. Who knows the high school coaching ranks well.
It stars with knowing who we are and then leveraging that. We have NO national footprint, in the minds of elite athletes. We do, however, have mind share in this state.
I do think, however, that the point stands. What the next hire ABSOLUTELY needs is California ties. We have tried the other approach (now three times) and it is pretty clear that if you can't recruit well in SoCal you are not recruiting well to Cal.
Heck, I wouldn't be at all surprised, if we dug a bit, that some of the out of state recruits we have gone after which had FINE academic records didn't have A-G requirements met (cause California thing) and thus required the coach/AD to go hat in hand to get a waiver.
BG, what is your take on if that is a satisfactory performance or not? Should Fox change the staff up to improve recruiting? Is it dependent on if they can get Mahaney?BearGreg said:
FWIW, Fox had a background as a West Coast guy from his Nevada and UW days. And then he made a conscious choice to retain Marty Wilson over David Grace (or a new hire) as his California recruiter. So far, that's led to 2K (via Napa), Bowser, Roberson and Anyanwu.
I flagged it yesterday
My understanding is recruiting isn't Marty's thing. Based on my limited view of him, he doesn't have the personality for it. His rep is he is a hardliner no-nonsense type (similar to Fox)BearGreg said:FWIW, Fox had a background as a West Coast guy from his Nevada and UW days. And then he made a conscious choice to retain Marty Wilson over David Grace (or a new hire) as his California recruiter. So far, that's led to 2K (via Napa), Bowser, Roberson and Anyanwu.socaltownie said:LOL. What happens when I try to read BI on my smart phone.BearGreg said:I said "natural" recruiter, not "national" recruiter.socaltownie said:"A strong national recruiter".....BearGreg said:
Always good to have more discussion about Men's basketball. And Shocky has always been welcome here so long as he abides by the same code of conduct everyone else does. That means no personal attacks, no overt sexism, and not sharing unsubstantiated rumors that can be harmful to former, current Cal players, coaches and administrators.
We will from time to time add some additional perspective to make sure folks have a more complete view of things. A couple things I will say on that front:
- Theo is a great former Cal Bear and has a tremendous career in front of him as a coach. However, he was not perfect when he came into Cal. First off he was not someone Wyking choose to have on his staff, the hire was foisted on him. Secondly, Theo struggled being the low assistant on the totem pole and pushed back on some of the duties that entailed. That said, Wyking, as he did elsewhere in the program, made a mess of the situation.
- Wyking is a good human being. A stand up guy with good intentions. He was over his head and was put in a position to fail by Mike Williams. From Paris Austin to Matt Bradley, the vast majority of the players who played for Coach Jones felt emotionally close to Wyking and trusted and liked him a lot as a human being. He was also not a fan of the Monster Thread and had some feedback about it from former players and former players families that was not positive. When we purchased Bear Insider, I had more critical mail about the Monster Thread then any other topic. At the same time, it was very popular. As with all things in life, people are not perfect nor is any message board thread.
- Cuonzo Martin left Cal for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which was the substantial salary increase he got at Missouri and the more lenient academic requirements for recruits. Based on many conversations with Coach Martin, thhe issue with his son not being admitted to Cal was not among the top 5 reasons he didn't stay.
- Our policies about editing and deleting posts here as well as banning users are well understood by this community and since the sites traffic has increased by almost 20% since we took over, apparently we've done okay with this approach. Our feelings are not hurt by being called "censors" though it's not exactly in good taste.
- The younger Abdur-Rahim never had serious interest in Cal, when coming out of HS and now has a transfer. He wanted to stay on the East Coast.
- Ashwin Puri was not soley focused on Musselman, though it is true they had a prior relationship and that he supported his candidacy. I agree with Shocky that he would not have been a good fit here thought he's clearly an exceptional coach. To criticize Ashwin is to miss the Elephant in the room which is Mike Williams and his agenda as the AD when Martin left. Ashwin's efforts were akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
- The notion or implication that Mark Fox was dirty at any time in his career including at Georgia is flat out wrong and misguided.
It's always a good reminder that we can use the word AND in life. Wyking Jones was a bad hire who failed miserably at Cal AND he is a very solid human being who was well liked and respected by almost everyone around him. Mark Fox is currently struggling at Cal and our program lacks fan interest and enthusiasm AND he would never cheat to win. Theo Robertson was a Cal great, a young and talented coach AND he was put in a terrible situation by Mike Williams which both he and Wyking Jones did not handle well.
More important than all of the above is that Cal basketball is now in year four of a truly sad situation. Fan support is abysmal, the program is in dire need of a practice facility at a time when donor interest is not high. Mark Fox is our coach and hopefully he will add two strong transfers this Spring/Summer and we will see a strong year in 2021-22. If not, it will be time to discuss a change in leadership and ideally a coach who is a strong natural recruiter and who makes energizing Cal's fan and donor base a top priority.
I just think that flies in the face of every data point we have about Cal in the last 30 years. We need a guy who recruits strong ON THE WEST COAST and in particular SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA (cause that is where the population center is and which produces, on a per capita basis, most of the hoop talent.
Seriously - when was the last time a Cal recruit from OUTSIDE California had a dramatic impact on the trajectory of either football or basketball? MAYBE SAR. MAYBE (if you really try hard) Jalen Brown. Now lets compare that with Crabbe, Kidd, Money, Rodgers, Roth, etc. etc. etc.
We are, when it comes to SPORTS, a STATE SCHOOL. That means hiring a guy who kills it in california - who has deep and decades(?) long roots to the AAU programs and leaders in this state. Who knows the high school coaching ranks well.
It stars with knowing who we are and then leveraging that. We have NO national footprint, in the minds of elite athletes. We do, however, have mind share in this state.
I do think, however, that the point stands. What the next hire ABSOLUTELY needs is California ties. We have tried the other approach (now three times) and it is pretty clear that if you can't recruit well in SoCal you are not recruiting well to Cal.
Heck, I wouldn't be at all surprised, if we dug a bit, that some of the out of state recruits we have gone after which had FINE academic records didn't have A-G requirements met (cause California thing) and thus required the coach/AD to go hat in hand to get a waiver.
If he was the lead recruiter to 2K, then I give him kudos for that. Kuany hasn't had a big impact yet, but I expect him to break out. Hopefully this year.
Bowser and Roberson were fairly under the radar recruits and both from Oakland's Bishop O'Dowd HS. Their coach is Cal alum Lou Ritchie. Probably the most pro Cal HS coach around. If Marty can sign Lewis I will be a believer. Until then, I have my doubts that he is what we need to recruit California.
HoopDreams said:My understanding is recruiting isn't Marty's thing. Based on my limited view of him, he doesn't have the personality for it. His rep is he is a hardliner no-nonsense type (similar to Fox)BearGreg said:FWIW, Fox had a background as a West Coast guy from his Nevada and UW days. And then he made a conscious choice to retain Marty Wilson over David Grace (or a new hire) as his California recruiter. So far, that's led to 2K (via Napa), Bowser, Roberson and Anyanwu.socaltownie said:LOL. What happens when I try to read BI on my smart phone.BearGreg said:I said "natural" recruiter, not "national" recruiter.socaltownie said:"A strong national recruiter".....BearGreg said:
Always good to have more discussion about Men's basketball. And Shocky has always been welcome here so long as he abides by the same code of conduct everyone else does. That means no personal attacks, no overt sexism, and not sharing unsubstantiated rumors that can be harmful to former, current Cal players, coaches and administrators.
We will from time to time add some additional perspective to make sure folks have a more complete view of things. A couple things I will say on that front:
- Theo is a great former Cal Bear and has a tremendous career in front of him as a coach. However, he was not perfect when he came into Cal. First off he was not someone Wyking choose to have on his staff, the hire was foisted on him. Secondly, Theo struggled being the low assistant on the totem pole and pushed back on some of the duties that entailed. That said, Wyking, as he did elsewhere in the program, made a mess of the situation.
- Wyking is a good human being. A stand up guy with good intentions. He was over his head and was put in a position to fail by Mike Williams. From Paris Austin to Matt Bradley, the vast majority of the players who played for Coach Jones felt emotionally close to Wyking and trusted and liked him a lot as a human being. He was also not a fan of the Monster Thread and had some feedback about it from former players and former players families that was not positive. When we purchased Bear Insider, I had more critical mail about the Monster Thread then any other topic. At the same time, it was very popular. As with all things in life, people are not perfect nor is any message board thread.
- Cuonzo Martin left Cal for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which was the substantial salary increase he got at Missouri and the more lenient academic requirements for recruits. Based on many conversations with Coach Martin, thhe issue with his son not being admitted to Cal was not among the top 5 reasons he didn't stay.
- Our policies about editing and deleting posts here as well as banning users are well understood by this community and since the sites traffic has increased by almost 20% since we took over, apparently we've done okay with this approach. Our feelings are not hurt by being called "censors" though it's not exactly in good taste.
- The younger Abdur-Rahim never had serious interest in Cal, when coming out of HS and now has a transfer. He wanted to stay on the East Coast.
- Ashwin Puri was not soley focused on Musselman, though it is true they had a prior relationship and that he supported his candidacy. I agree with Shocky that he would not have been a good fit here thought he's clearly an exceptional coach. To criticize Ashwin is to miss the Elephant in the room which is Mike Williams and his agenda as the AD when Martin left. Ashwin's efforts were akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
- The notion or implication that Mark Fox was dirty at any time in his career including at Georgia is flat out wrong and misguided.
It's always a good reminder that we can use the word AND in life. Wyking Jones was a bad hire who failed miserably at Cal AND he is a very solid human being who was well liked and respected by almost everyone around him. Mark Fox is currently struggling at Cal and our program lacks fan interest and enthusiasm AND he would never cheat to win. Theo Robertson was a Cal great, a young and talented coach AND he was put in a terrible situation by Mike Williams which both he and Wyking Jones did not handle well.
More important than all of the above is that Cal basketball is now in year four of a truly sad situation. Fan support is abysmal, the program is in dire need of a practice facility at a time when donor interest is not high. Mark Fox is our coach and hopefully he will add two strong transfers this Spring/Summer and we will see a strong year in 2021-22. If not, it will be time to discuss a change in leadership and ideally a coach who is a strong natural recruiter and who makes energizing Cal's fan and donor base a top priority.
I just think that flies in the face of every data point we have about Cal in the last 30 years. We need a guy who recruits strong ON THE WEST COAST and in particular SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA (cause that is where the population center is and which produces, on a per capita basis, most of the hoop talent.
Seriously - when was the last time a Cal recruit from OUTSIDE California had a dramatic impact on the trajectory of either football or basketball? MAYBE SAR. MAYBE (if you really try hard) Jalen Brown. Now lets compare that with Crabbe, Kidd, Money, Rodgers, Roth, etc. etc. etc.
We are, when it comes to SPORTS, a STATE SCHOOL. That means hiring a guy who kills it in california - who has deep and decades(?) long roots to the AAU programs and leaders in this state. Who knows the high school coaching ranks well.
It stars with knowing who we are and then leveraging that. We have NO national footprint, in the minds of elite athletes. We do, however, have mind share in this state.
I do think, however, that the point stands. What the next hire ABSOLUTELY needs is California ties. We have tried the other approach (now three times) and it is pretty clear that if you can't recruit well in SoCal you are not recruiting well to Cal.
Heck, I wouldn't be at all surprised, if we dug a bit, that some of the out of state recruits we have gone after which had FINE academic records didn't have A-G requirements met (cause California thing) and thus required the coach/AD to go hat in hand to get a waiver.
If he was the lead recruiter to 2K, then I give him kudos for that. Kuany hasn't had a big impact yet, but I expect him to break out. Hopefully this year.
Bowser and Roberson were fairly under the radar recruits and both from Oakland's Bishop O'Dowd HS. Their coach is Cal alum Lou Ritchie. Probably the most pro Cal HS coach around. If Marty can sign Lewis I will be a believer. Until then, I have my doubts that he is what we need to recruit California.
When Fox was at Nevada initially, the head coach was Trent Johnson a West Coast guy (born in Berkeley) and top recruiter for Montgomery at Stanford when they mined all the SoCal talent. Fox was not bringing in West Coast guys, Johnson was. And that and his UW experience was all before any current recruit was born.
In Fox's 14 years as head coach at Nevada and Georgia, other than 2 Reno recruits and a JC player from Idaho when he was at Nevada, and a single player from Arizona when he was at Georgia, he never brought in a recruit from the West Coast much less California (or Oregon, Washington, even Vegas...). The vast majority of his Georgia teams were from Georgia, though rarely the top players from Georgia. He did bring in a few African and African immigrant players, which is notable.
The first California recruit he ever landed in 16 years as a HC was this year with Bowser (not counting Australian Kuany last year). As you point out, landing BOD players to Cal is like landing Reno players to Nevada.
So that makes Anyanwu out of San Diego next year his first true California (or Washington or Oregon) recruit in 17 years as a HC.
Still waiting on his first recruit out of Los Angeles.
The point is, Fox is NOT a West Coast guy with West Coast recruiting connections, not when he was at Nevada and certainly not when he was at Georgia. Far from it. I am sure he is trying to develop them now, because he has to, but our rivals are far ahead of us.
Marty Wilson is from Pacoima and played at Pepperdine and coached at Simi Valley, Pepperdine, San Diego, UCSB, Utah and was HC at Pepperdine before joining Wyking Jones' staff at Cal. He is definitely a WC guy. Don't know his rep as a recruiter. His record as HC at Pepperdine (46-90 in WCC) suggests either his coaching or his recruiting (or both) were deficient.
End of the day, you need a head coach that talented intelligent kids want to play for and/or has a system/program kids want to play in. I just don't think Fox and Fox's system is a good fit for Cal. It was a better fit for Georgia to be mediocre, but they want better. At Cal we won't even be mediocre with it.
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Would love to see Fox upgrade his staff with one hire that can handle West Coast recruiting and provide more to the players off the court needs.philbert said:BG, what is your take on if that is a satisfactory performance or not? Should Fox change the staff up to improve recruiting? Is it dependent on if they can get Mahaney?BearGreg said:
FWIW, Fox had a background as a West Coast guy from his Nevada and UW days. And then he made a conscious choice to retain Marty Wilson over David Grace (or a new hire) as his California recruiter. So far, that's led to 2K (via Napa), Bowser, Roberson and Anyanwu.
Sounds like Theo. I wish we just hire a HC who cleans house. I'm not saying Theo should be the HC. We need a HC that can delegate assignments to Asst. Coaches who can not only grow in their individual coaching roles, but are able to help cultivate a culture of winning by working to develop our players games. He needs coaches that can flat out recruit. The HC needs to be excitable to have a recruiting dept. that puts out amazing tweets/videos for our kids, who can see themselves playing/winning in our programs . The program needs to market kids, who want to move on to the NBA. The HC needs to be able to relate to all our diverse alumni and donors by being genuine and a endless worker. Create a crew to break down film for our kids and teach them how to break down film on the games/practices and for their individual games. He needs a nutritionist for daily eating regiments, and off-season training. He needs a HC that excited the donors to build a practice facility.
I vote for Brian Shaw for HC. He has credibility as a HC, although not at the college level. He can hire Lou Ritchie, Theo, and solid in game coach with elite recruiting skills. This would excite fans in my opinion.
I vote for Brian Shaw for HC. He has credibility as a HC, although not at the college level. He can hire Lou Ritchie, Theo, and solid in game coach with elite recruiting skills. This would excite fans in my opinion.
more deceptively inaccurate misinformation from the censor crediting marty wilson for the recruitments of 2k, bowser, roberson & anyanwu
marty wilson is a low energy recruiter that was retained by your "good human being" wyking jones along with his pal david grace (whose dirty & sketchy sneaker deals have gotten him fired at both ucla & vanderbilt, he is now unemployed living in phx)
half of the guys you listed got nothing to do with anything that marty wilson did, the successful recruitments of marty bowser & marsalis roberson (along with young ivee's childhood friend from montera middle school paris austin) in becoming bears is 100% on cal grad/longtime cal's monster class reader/community activist/state championship bishop o'dowd basketball coach lou richie
yeah lou (who conducts mandatory saturday study sessions for his student athletes) is like shocky, they both mutts
dragons don't go to **** academic schoolz#
marty wilson is a low energy recruiter that was retained by your "good human being" wyking jones along with his pal david grace (whose dirty & sketchy sneaker deals have gotten him fired at both ucla & vanderbilt, he is now unemployed living in phx)
half of the guys you listed got nothing to do with anything that marty wilson did, the successful recruitments of marty bowser & marsalis roberson (along with young ivee's childhood friend from montera middle school paris austin) in becoming bears is 100% on cal grad/longtime cal's monster class reader/community activist/state championship bishop o'dowd basketball coach lou richie
yeah lou (who conducts mandatory saturday study sessions for his student athletes) is like shocky, they both mutts
dragons don't go to **** academic schoolz#
gk, i've met brian shaw at a couple of bishop o'dowd basketball games when his son played for the dragons back in the day...while he is a class act, he's not gonna go to 200+ aau games every summer, the bears need a players coach personality recruiter that build relationships with anybody/everybody that can help him recruit 4 & 5 star ballers like his hair is on fire
even if he's bald & don't got good hair
real talk#
even if he's bald & don't got good hair
real talk#
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What I said was that Fox's choice to retain Marty as his primary West Coast recruiter has resulted in 2K, etc. The end result for Fox is the end result. There was no intention to give Marty Wilson specific credit for those players.Shocky1 said:
more deceptively inaccurate misinformation from the censor crediting marty wilson for the recruitments of 2k, bowser, roberson & anyanwu
marty wilson is a low energy recruiter that was retained by your "good human being" wyking jones along with his pal david grace (whose dirty & sketchy sneaker deals have gotten him fired at both ucla & vanderbilt, he is now unemployed living in phx)
half of the guys you listed got nothing to do with anything that marty wilson did, the successful recruitments of marty bowser & marsalis roberson (along with young ivee's childhood friend from montera middle school paris austin) in becoming bears is 100% on cal grad/longtime cal's monster class reader/community activist/state championship bishop o'dowd basketball coach lou richie
yeah lou (who conducts mandatory saturday study sessions for his student athletes) is like shocky, they both mutts
dragons don't go to **** academic schoolz#
Our perspective on Coach Wilson has always been and continues to be that Fox can do better. For more information on potential staff changes, read here.
I think (hope) you can do better than calling people pejorative names.
censorship update:
the fun lovin' pro free speech censor deleted in its entirety my post in response to bearister's "sunshine & lollipops" post because he objected to my comment that "why would anybody think that a blond female with hair color the same color as urine is attractive?"
the censor also heavily deleted (to the point its sort of incoherent) my response to chapman is gone's statement that my daughter taylor "eats thick wheats," her instagram refutes the loser's inaccurate assertion
the censor sent me a "welcome back" private message that let me know he objects to the word "curvy" as in my preference for curvy brunette yoga females with flat stomachs
if you told me the censor likes to rip pages out of books & burn literature that he morally disagrees with, the monster would believe u
don't be an uptight old white dude (there's a reason that cal's monster class readers don't post on this board), berkeley don't need the censor police, maybe get a rescue mutt or a yoga/meditation practice or something
the fun lovin' pro free speech censor deleted in its entirety my post in response to bearister's "sunshine & lollipops" post because he objected to my comment that "why would anybody think that a blond female with hair color the same color as urine is attractive?"
the censor also heavily deleted (to the point its sort of incoherent) my response to chapman is gone's statement that my daughter taylor "eats thick wheats," her instagram refutes the loser's inaccurate assertion
the censor sent me a "welcome back" private message that let me know he objects to the word "curvy" as in my preference for curvy brunette yoga females with flat stomachs
if you told me the censor likes to rip pages out of books & burn literature that he morally disagrees with, the monster would believe u
don't be an uptight old white dude (there's a reason that cal's monster class readers don't post on this board), berkeley don't need the censor police, maybe get a rescue mutt or a yoga/meditation practice or something
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